Reading Jane’s post on the morning of March 21, 2008 about the religious beliefs of candidates made me think about how my own Congressman, Keith Ellison, had to deal with religious controversy in his past and how he has been able to overcome it. (Religion and politics in general, and the religious beliefs of candidates running for president in 2008 in particular, seem to be standard fare in the political realm and the media these days.)
While a law student in 1989 and 1990, Ellison wrote several columns as Keith E. Hakim in the student newspaper, the Minnesota Daily. "The first article defended Louis Farrakhan against accusations of anti-Semitism," defended Nation of Islam spokesman Khalid Abdul Muhammad, and spoke in the voice of a Nation of Islam advocate." The second column "called affirmative action a ’sneaky’ form of compensation for slavery, suggesting instead that white Americans pay reparations to blacks."The third suggested the creation of a separate state for black residents.
In 1995, Ellison, writing an editorial as Keith X. Ellison, stated that Farrakhan is not an anti-Semite. The same year, Ellison was identified as a member of the Nation of Islam in the Star Tribune.
In 1997, when Joanne Jackson, executive director of the Minneapolis Initiative Against Racism (MIAR), allegedly said that, "Jews are among the most racist white people", Ellison, using his religious name Mohammed, read a statement supporting her on behalf of the The Minneapolis-St. Paul Study Group of the Nations of Islam: "[We] stand by Ms. Jackson. We stand by the truth contained in the remarks attributed to her, and by her right to express her view without sanction. Here is why we support Ms. Jackson: She is correct about Minister Farrakhan. He is not a racist. He is also not an anti-Semite. This widespread and unfair practice of whites sanctioning blacks for not denouncing Minister Farrakhan represents a racist double standard, and is an impediment to any honest dialogue about race. If black people are to ever possess a collective sense of self-respect and self-determination, they must not genuflect whenever powerful whites make the unreasonable demand to denounce Minister Farrakhan. Minister Farrakhan said he did not like the tension between the black and Jewish communities, and that he was open to dialogue with any groups as long as they did not set any conditions." Ellison later claimed "While some at that meeting justified her comments, I spoke out in favor of increased dialogue between the Jewish and African-American communities."
Questions about Ellison’s involvement with the Nation of Islam arose during his 2006 campaign. After winning the Democratic party nomination in May, he wrote a letter to the local Jewish Community Relations Council where he reportedly "asserted that his involvement with the Nation of Islam had been limited to an 18-month period around the time of the Million Man March in 1995, that he had been unfamiliar with the Nation of Islam’s anti-Semitic views during his involvement with the group, and that he himself had never expressed such views." He also stated that he was never a member of the Nation of Islam, but only worked with it to organize the Minnesota contingent to the Million Man March.
“Keith has recognized his past mistakes and renounced his brief association with the Nation of Islam,” wrote Ira Forman, executive director of the National Jewish Democratic Council, in a press statement released September 21. “It is only the GOP attack machine who seems intent on not moving on.”
The release — issued in response to recent criticism from Ellison’s opponent, Republican Alan Fine, as well as from state GOP party leaders — put the national Jewish group at the forefront of Ellison’s defense.
In spite of what his detractors threw at him, Ellison’s views on the Iraq War, his positions and work in favor of the environment, immigration reform, healthcare, children, and the poor seem to resonate with his ethnically diverse constituents in Minneapolis, many of whom rallied to vote for him. In 2006, he won the DFL (Democratic-Farmer-Labor) (DFL) primary with 41 percent of the vote, and then won in the general with 56 percent of the vote against Republican candidate Alan Fine and others, becoming the first Muslim–and also the first African-American from Minnesota–to be elected to US Congress. His term began in the midst of a great controversy over his religion. He was finger pointed and attacked by extreme right even before taking oath.
On November 14, 2006, Glenn Beck of CNN Headline News asked Ellison to, "prove to me that you are not working with our enemies," saying, "And I know you’re not. I’m not accusing you of being an enemy, but that’s the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way." Ellison replied that his constituents, "know that I have a deep love and affection for my country. There’s no one who’s more patriotic than I am, and so you know, I don’t need to — need to prove my patriotic stripes."
And controversy over Ellison’s religion reached national news when conservative columnist Dennis Prager wrote a column criticizing him because Ellison stated an intent to use the Quran instead of a Bible at his photo-op reenactment of the swearing in ceremony (the official ceremony is done en masse without any books). Fifth-term Rep. Virgil Goode (R-VA), responding to "scores and hundreds of emails"from his constituents after the Prager articles, has also stated his view that Ellison’s decision to use the Quran is a threat to "the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America".He also wrote, "…if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran."
CNN reported that on the opening day of Congress, Ellison met Goode on the House floor to shake hands and Goode accepted an offer to talk over coffee.
That same day, during his oath reenactment, Ellison used a two volume Quran published in London in 1764 that was once owned by Thomas Jefferson and loaned to Ellison by "the rare book and special collections division at the Library of Congress".
On January 11, 2008, La Prensa de Minnesota, the primary (and prominent) Hispanic newspaper in Minnesota, named Congressman Keith Ellison of Minnesota’s Fifth Congressional District “La Prensa de Minnesota Person of the Year for 2007, an award aimed to highlight the accomplishments and the impact of one person in favor of the Twin Cities communities as a whole.The newspaper cited his work, during 2007, in favor of the environment, immigration reform, healthcare, the poor and the Liberian community for giving Keith Ellison this award.
Congressman Ellison is running for re-election to Congress from Minnesota’s Fifth Congressional District, which comprises all of Minneapolis, and which, since 1963, has easily been the bluest and most ethnically diverse district in the whole state of Minnesota, especially with the large number of US citizens who are Somali refugees—supposedly the largest outside Mogadishu. Given his accomplishments, my neighbors and fellow Fifth District constituents should be so lucky to re-elect him as their representative.
Related posts:
- Keith Ellison: “I Will Not Vote for Any Healthcare That Does Not Include a Public Option”
- Ellison To Vote No On Supplemental: We Have 35 of 39 Votes Needed
- FDL Movie Night: New Muslim Cool
- Louisiana Justice of the Peace Keith Bardwell Tries to Justify His Racism
- Frank Gaffney’s Cowardly Backtrack: It Doesn’t Matter if Obama’s a Muslim, Even Though I Just Methodically Detailed Exactly Why He Probably Is





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My guy, too!
Okay, that’s a lie. My “guy” is John Kline, which lags Michele Bachmann only in kissy-face weirdness. And because Kline is “my guy,” I literally have no representative. Ergo Ellison and also Walz.
It’s lonely up here!
hi barbara–
Is Keith your critter too?
Nah, I lied. See number 2. I adopted him because I’m an orphan, congress-wise.
It’s Easter Sunday!!! All FDLers are in church–including the atheists…*g*
My critter is William ‘Cold Cash’ Jefferson
and as an atheist, I resent that!!! ;-) no church for moi
Phoenix Woman also got less traffic in last thread…if it’s any consolation…
am agnostic…big difference…you in Noo Orleans?
yup! live in the 9th ward!
9th precinct 9th ward–all the great musicians come from here! well, the drummers at least
i think it’s mostly the weather … it’s gorgeous here! I’d be out if I wasn’t doing school stuff
People are probably in post-Peep ingestion shock.
Biodun, you are rightly proud of your congressman. I am and he isn’t even mine. :) Diversity can only strengthen our government. Thank you for the extensive introduction, it’s going to take awhile to read all you’ve provided
that or trying to escape the zombie jeebus
1,790 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Biodun Iginla and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thank you for your post and your presense in our community of hope here at FDL. Every time I see your name in front of a message I slow down and savor each word and this post was especially gratifying’ to my appetite for messages from the experiences of those who have felt the sting of the lash of racism. It is very important that we not only support Obama and his courageous stand in support of the humanity of Reverend Wright but that in so doing we support all those who refuse to marginalize others in return for a safe spot in the back of the bus.
We must take this moment in history and, like you have done in this post, make it our own and understand that we all stand on the same point in the universe of human experience.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION THERE IS NO PLACE FOR FEAR IN THE STRUGGLE!!
Live in Ellison’s district, and my Precinct was strong for him in 2006.
But it isn’t Easter Weather. The Methodists down at the corner always have a sunrise service on the hill in the park, and they had to wade through 6 inches of fresh snow on top of what had not melted yet. Looking out at the street scape, it is Currier and Ives. More Turkey and cranberry sauce dinner than the planned leg of lamb. If there are snow drops or other little early spring flowers under all this fresh snow with more predicted, we need to have another date for Easter, perhaps a month from now.
The whole truth of Ellison’s campaign also involves understanding where the money for the Green Candidate came from in 2006. Ellison’s margin in this district should be 70 plus, and he got 56, largely because the DLC sent in funds for Lee of the Greens. I doubt if it will happen again, but they need to be held to account for that decision.
Ellison had spent 6 years in the State Legislature before he was endorsed for Congress, and he ran with every DFL Legislator in his district behind him. It is perhaps the most safe district in the whole country, and with it open last year, first time since 78, the question was can a really safe district send something distinctive to DC that cannot be easily defeated. The answer to that question was Ellison. We expect him to stay and one of these days take John Conyer’s seat via seniority. Now it is just a question of waiting.
chocolate rabbit coma
that is a bit insensitive to the people who celebrate Jesus’s resurrection. even if you don’t believe, a little respect to those who do is in order
Lies are lies, Farrakahn’s, Ellison’s, David Duke’s, Pat Robertson’s and so on.
Why talk with anyone who knowingly perpetrates outrageous, obscene lies against people, white, black, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist or Christian? Their lies are to be held in contempt just like it is not free speech to yell fire in a theater or talk blood libels against a people. But it seems that some listeners will put up with a lot of crap in order to get a little good done. Moral failure is really what it is.
Beautiful piece, Biodun. Thank you.
Happy Easter Bunny!
Dollar Bill.:)
Engagement is the key to reconciliation, not to mention, the lies they choose to tell can be very revealing on their own.
Excellent piece, Biodun. I’ll swap congresscritters with you any time.
BTW, Happy Easter.
You know what they say about drummers.
(I figure I can say this since Ron was a drummer for evah.)
hey gang:
Thanks much everyone!!! Had to step out for a moment. Yep–Ellison’s my guy. Minneapolis is a great place for ethnic diversity. Why, I saw a Mexican high school guy with his Somali girlfriend on the Lake Street 21 bus he other day…
Good information, Biodun. I hadn’t seen such an extensive piece on Ellison before.
You know how to tell when a drummer is knocking on your door?
The knocking keeps speeding up.
Ah, Biodun, agnostic, and word-smith extraorinaire, this here atheist, doth agree most completely with Norske.
Your posts are always worthy of the critical moment, and that you’ve the wonderful perspective of extensive travel, education, and grasp informs all of your insights. To our unending benefit and deepest appreciation.
Great and significant post.
where do you live in Minneapolis? I live in the Warehouse District…a bunch of ua are planning a Twin Cities FDL meetup late this spring…if you’re interested. johnSwifty, John Forde, and newdealfarrmgrrl have gotten together in downtowwn MPls a few times. Phoenix Woman will be at the meetup as well.
Hey Norke!!! Thanks much. I appreciate it…a LOT…
I am so tired of religion and completely not interested in people spout on about their religious belief and their sense of “entitlement” and superiority.
I can’t wait for the day when we humans are free from all these religions which only serve to divide people.
They all stink as far as I am concerned.
But not every person who is a member of a religion stinks and many do good work and attribute it to their religious beliefs. Mostly an rationalization because those people who do good, are kind and generous would be the same without their religion.
I would like to see a law were you could not ask someone’s religion or display your religion in public.
you know how to get a drummer off your porch?
pay him for the pizza and give him a tip
The reverend Wright controversy is a very sorry matter because it draws people into a discussion about religion and so called religious leaders who are self appointed blow hard for the most part, no better worse, smarter or more stupid than the people in their pews.
Religions are universally misogynistic and that alone is a reason to abolish them.
yep–Ellison’s career in Congress seems to be on the right track…his record as a progressive voter is way up there–around 97 percent, second only to Yvette Clark of Brooklyn (BTW, they’re both members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus–Ellison’s the only Minnesota critter on that caucus..)
Off to see the fam. Good day, everyone, especially you, Biodun, and you, Loo Hoo.
As always, much appreciated.
Do all congress critters swear an oath or can they affirm?
Happy Easter to you. BTW, as an agnostic, never celebrate Easter or Christmas…*G*
Have a wonderful day, RonD!
Here’s a shocking story on race, at least for me having grown up in Minnesota and California. On DKos.
It is just possible that I might be able to spell the word ‘extraordinaire’ correctly, sometime today.
i respectfully disagree. Religion doesn’t work for you so you don’t practice it but there are plenty that choose to practice and beleive in it.
Many people would have us believe that only Muslims are religious fanatics.
History tells us otherwise.
-G
I’m with you Martin,
Religious people spew lies and nonsense and people take them way way way too seriously.
And that doesn’t include the nasty stuff they saw about other religions.
Well, as a likewise agnostic, I do not celebrate the holiday either…but I still eat the food, and enjoy the fellowship and merrymaking. Same at Christmas.
I will therefore wish you a happy Sunday, a happy NOW, with no other justification necessary *G*.
Thanks, man. I think Jane and Christy like having me around as well…
I am perfectly aware that many “practice” is and believe in it. Many believed in witchcraft, burnt humans at the stake and remove their clitoris or foreskins for religious reasons.
Religious people accept the irrational as rational. That’s a strike against them in my book.
I’m with Richard Dawkins.
God does not exist, and so religions are baseless.
Great post Biodun!
“In spite of what his detractors threw at him, Ellison’s views on the Iraq War, his positions and work in favor of the environment, immigration reform, healthcare, children, and the poor seem to resonate with his ethnically diverse constituents in Minneapolis, many of whom rallied to vote for him. In 2006, he won the DFL (Democratic-Farmer-Labor) (DFL) primary with 41 percent of the vote, and then won in the general with 56 percent of the vote against Republican candidate Alan Fine and others, becoming the first Muslim–and also the first African-American from Minnesota–to be elected to US Congress. His term began in the midst of a great controversy over his religion. He was finger pointed and attacked by extreme right even before taking oath.”
This is happening all over this country now, which is a very good sign in spite of the “Moonie” media…
I find it in credibly insulting that the media is painting Pennsylvania as the most prejudiced state in the union these days, by insinuating that all blue collar workers are racially-biased and Christian….
my mother and aunt are religious and neither spews lies nor nonsense about other religions
yup, that’s his nickname, and aptly so…
Pennsylvania and WV have some very “backward” thinking people. NY does as well.
Bigotry is alive and well in America.
So you keep expressing but there are people here that do and it could be insulting
It’s okay to believe in anything you (not meaning you specifically) want to as long as you don’t force other people to believe it, too. That’s the problem with the right wing – they just can’t seem to stop themselves.
true dat
Good for them. Not every adherent does. My father was religious and he didn’t either. But he did waste way too much of his life in religious “pursuits”.
but I still eat the food…
fam’s all outta town, so tonight I’m having some Easter-Spaghetti!!
with chocolate bunnies on top instead of meatballs. :)
Personally, I should like to see a world where the chief ‘philosohical practice’ would be composed of tolerance, compassion and appreciation, followed by Rule Number 5…
I agree bigotry is alive and well, but there is much less of it than before and it is less extreme.
I don’t care if others practice a religion. It is their choice. I just don’t want to hear about it ever. Do it in your home, inside your church, not in my face.
I resent that remark. They are no more backward than the people in your backyard.
that’s what religion used to be about. now it’s bitter, divisive, and ugly – not all, of course.
Bigotry is alive and well in America.
have found there to be (to me anyway) an amazing amount of racism in Indianapolis.
The comments section of the IndyStar.com the day after Julia Carson died was utterly revolting and a real eye-opener for me.
Which is why I am alway troubled that there is a litmus test in this country that you must be “god fearing” and an adherent of a (christian) religion.
Listen to these phony politicians tell you how religious they are. Regan never went to church and I don’t think Bush does either.
Hillary shows up with a bunch of right wing loonie ladies to do a bible study thing. Way creepie.
So, is Farrakhan a racist or not? I’ve been under the impression that he is. Personally, I support anyone’s religious inclinations – just wish for more tolerance all around.
We got it. Religion is blah blah blah…
To each their own.
‘Understanding’ wouldn’t hurt.
And, people could probably benefit from making better use of their ears.
(Chocolate rabbits, beware!)
True…Pennsylvania’s actually representative of all of USA. That state’s got the whole spectrum: progressives, Goopers, religious fanatics, African-Americans, Hispanics, the whole works…Plus: it’s a huge state in terms of population. I’m quite familiar with Pittsburgh, as many friends teach both at U of Pittsburgh and at Carnegie-Mellon…
There is racism every where. That’s one reason I get really upset when people here blame the south for everything. The south is a convenient whipping boy for the things people feel down in their gut and don’t want to acknowledge.
I went to school in PA and visited VW. That was my anacdotal experience. I see the same thing out in Long Island where white gang prey on dark skinned people. Check our the White case.
mr wobbs already in chocolate bunny ear coma
I got it… racism is blah blah
has he already eaten them all?
Live in Pittsburgh and glad to here you’ve friends here.
Probably would enjoy meeting them, Biodun, and meeting you next time you visit the city of bridges.
I graduated from CMU and I kinow that state. It gave us
Rick Santorum
I had a dog that was very racist…he absolutely hated any other dog that remotely looked like an Akita. It was due to a blip in his socialization as a young dog.
At the JFK Libarary they have a newspaper from 1900 where is says in a n ad for a job “Irish need not apply” and 60 years later and Irishman would be elected President. Things do change over time.
your words, certainly not mine
Bartoo are in in Pitts? inneresting.
Ding.
My plan had been to hide them (he loves chocolate) but he found one and it tripped and fell into his mouth (the ears, that is). This morning, he ate two with his coffee and croissants.
GregB @ 45:
Jeebus!!! some story that…
I am not telling you what to believe. I am doing what others do on comments… stating my beliefs.
Mine has issues with little white fluffy dogs. She has gotten better with socialization but we think it is because she has been bitten by lil white dogs, twice
I’m interested… am also in the Warehouse district!
…he definitely is…
You have done so and also insulted others who practice some form of religion. You complain that they show no tolerance of others but your not showing much yourself
Okay, that was supposed to be in reply to Biodun at 31.
Indeedy so, as well as the Specter.
I do hope, for all our sakes, that the woods done seen the light, and mayhap we shall surprise you.
You probably wouldn’t mind, then, were I to say ‘got ya!’.
Sander, more folks are a-thinkin’ here than I’ve ever seen before, usually I just despair, but this time, ‘hope’ is in the air …
I don’t want religion discussed.
I don’t want it mixed in with politics.
I don’t want to hear about your or anyone’s religion.
I am tired of this.
We have serious problems to deal with. religion is a distraction and even a cause of bigotry.
I, personally, to whomever’s chagrin, prefer ‘Putz’ …
I consider Farakan a bigot.
I am taking the wife and dogs for a walk.
i’ll give you a jingle when I’m there next. Been to Pittsburgh many many times…my friends all teach in cultural studies and English and Latin American Studies…
yeah? I’m on North 1st Street…one of those lofts…I also have a friend who spells her name like yours…
I understand your position and wasn’t attacking you, just asking you to be tolerant of the fact that there are plenty posters here who practiced some form of organized religion and your comments (the generalized ones, don’t demonstrate tolerance to our liberal brother and sisters)
I know–I responded…at 97…
Looking forward, Biodun, thanks.
tolerance, compassion and appreciation, that’s what religion used to be about. now it’s bitter, divisive, and ugly – not all, of course.
One must blind oneself to history to espouse such sophomoric thinking. Firstly, religion is inherently divisive – it always has been throughout recorded history. Each religion opposes and contradicts the other. Worse, Christian sub-groups (And Muslim sub-groups) all oppose each other internally. Each one believes itself to be the one true path. This is divisive – it pits various groups agin other groups. While foolish people are fighting over their religions, the politicians are stealing our gold and using our foolishness to our own demise as we fight and kill each other.
I loved reading that article!
Keith’s my congressman too.
His wife was on the board of my children’s theatre in St. Paul, and was (and may still be) a teacher at an alternative high school in St. Paul.
Great people. I’m proud to have them representing me!
i have a religion and a spirituality and i’m not insulted by what sander o is saying. his saying religious people are basically idjits and wasting their time is a reflection of what he thinks, not a reflection on whether or not i’m actually an idjit or wasting my time.
I’m not personally religious, but I don’t think it has to be divisive (even though it often is) – the Golden Rule and all. Also, I don’t think any subject should be automatically out of bounds here – just hatefullness. I’m new here, so maybe I need to know the rules?
what are your coordinates?
Biodun!!! Great post friend. I love diversity. It brings out the best in most.
Great, i’m glad your not insulted but when i read comments like that that indict people as well as religion, it speaks to an absence of tolerance and the critique that the left doesn’t like religion.
BTW, I wasn’t giving him giref for expressing how he felt, rather the repetition of generalizations about religious people and organized religion
I’m on north 3rd St. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for any news of a planned meetup. Yay!
telephonically;
fore won too
ate too nein
Zee-row, nein won ate.
tooberlee:
davidbartoo at verizon dot net
Not my place to tell you, but AKAIK, anyone is welcome to post comments. The PTB will let you know if you step out of line. Thanks for your remark, but I disagree with you. The very nature of religion indicates that it must either divide or include ALL. Now, the intended goal of Christianity (and Islam) is to (eventually) convert the entire world to it. That is the problem. (Not everyone will cooperate!) Each desires to keep his own faith and not succumb to the opposing faith. Take this scenario and apply it to Catholicism (No secret that many protestant groups refer to C as the Great Whore referred to in the bible) vs. Protestantism and its sub groups (all of which claim to be the correct form of Chrisitanity to the exclusion of all others). Its divisive as hell. No way in cannot be divisive until the day that one religion conquers all others.
Actually, the polytheist religions were much more accepting of others faiths and ideas. It seems that when you have to have one “true” god, then you’re stuck with denying others theirs.
Link?
Make that zee-row, nein ate too.
Jeez, Biodun, muh brain is meltin’….
So, is it just an unrealistic dream to think that increasing tolerance and mutual acceptance could overcome this need to convert all to one’s own views? I’m an idealist here, but I have to agree that you have history on your side. I’ve been reading up on Buddhism and it seems pretty forgiving.
I don’t know much about polytheists. Its logical, though, your point. More gods could be shared (and they were to great deal, albeit with different names) by different polythesistic groups. Each would require a Sun God, obviously. A Fertility God, Water God, etc.
You are correct. There is less to fight about with many gods as opposed to one Grand Poobah (whom the other team identifies as a fraud).
Here’s a place to start.
So, is it just an unrealistic dream to think that increasing tolerance and mutual acceptance could overcome this need to convert all to one’s own views? I’m an idealist here, but I have to agree that you have history on your side. I’ve been reading up on Buddhism and it seems pretty forgiving.
You are right. Buddhism is pretty good, but the Buddhist is still at odds with other factions. You can’t increase tolerance and mutual acceptance so long as Religions hold sway over the majority. Here’s the rub: If societies continues to support disparate and various religious ideologies, they will not be capable of reaching the goals you suggest.
All religions should be thrown out and ridiculed for the harm they have caused humankind. Enlightenment thinking, progressive thought and ideas are the only real way to coexist in peace and confront the world’s problems (our problems). That means you can’t keep Buddhism, either. No Sky Gods.
Well,happy Easter, then.
It’s a nice survey on some Roman emperors. Unfortunately, it just happens to leave out the Romans destroying Jerusalem in 70 and 125ce.
So the polytheistic Native American tribes were “tolerant” of each other for centuries?
Why do you think the Crow were scouting for Custer at the Little Big Horn? Even after centuries of exploitation by European Americans, the Crow still hated the Sioux more than the European Americans.
Luther didn’t consider the Roman Catholic Church “monotheistic.” It was one of the reasons he tried to reform it. How is Xtianity monotheistic if there’s a Trinity? Isn’t Mary the Mother of God to some Xtians? Doesn’t that make four?
I understand the argument you’re trying to make, I just don’t think it works, either historically or theologically.
Right from the start, it was the smaller group – the Christians who started flinging poo at the Roman Polythiests. Christianity is about conversion. The Christians can’t leave people alone.
Believe it or not, not all wars are about religion. Some are and were, even in ancient times. I was just refering the the subject of religious intolerance. This is a complex subject, which is why I said it was a place to start.
Well said.
The problem is that religious intolerance isn’t such a big deal if you live in a place that embraces the Enlightenment/separation of Church/Mosque/Temple/whatever and State. The pre-Enlightenment power of religion came in large part with its involvement with the wider culture. Your job was dependent on you worshipping the religion of your state. If you didn’t, you lost your job, and your family and friends shunned you. AFAIK, Mormons are still like that.
my own coordinates are on my website–if you click on my name…
preznit at 16–your zombie jesus remark didn’t offend me.
when i was little, that’s what i thought……rose from the dead, that’s a zombie!
it had to all be explained to me a couple of times…..
so, your remark didn’t bother me. * g *