I have been in the habit, when confronted by particularly egregious (not you, Egregious!) examples of GOP/Media Complex tomfoolery, to invoke the name of Upton Sinclair. These past few weeks have been chock-full of reasons to do so.
Where do I start? Well, there’s the "mainstream" corporate media’s Lord of the Flies act on the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, which they gleefully engaged in even though they never expressed anywhere near this level and duration of manufactured hissy-kabuki outrage at John McCain’s spiritual guides John "Katrina was justified and Catholicism is the Great Whore" Hagee or Rod "racist and proud of it" Parsley. Don’t believe me? Just check Google: Searching for "obama wright" gets 1,280,000 hits, with the top half-dozen being for major media outlets like ABC News and the New York Times. "mccain hagee" gets 1,020,000, but none of the top cites are from major media outlets — they’re all either from blogs or the Columbia Journalism Review; in other words, places from which the average American doesn’t usually get his or her news. And "mccain parsley" gets a measly 74,700 links, with most of the most-cited links again belonging to blogs and not ABC, CBS or anywhere else most non-blog-savvy Americans might hear about it.
Speaking of coddling McCain, we have Big Media’s determination to ‘disappear‘ any evidence that contradicts the image they’ve so lovingly upheld of him as a Serious and Knowledgeable Foreign Policy Guy. And when I say ‘disappear’, I mean it: Not only did a fair number of media outlets either ignore the "Iran backs Al-Qaeda" gaffe, or pretend that he simply "misspoke" when he’s been repeating this lie for a long time, and not only have they largely looked the other way when he repeated it again after being publicly corrected by his BFF Joe Lieberman, but they’ve actually gone out of their way (h/t Atrios) to falsify the record to make McCain look better:
Discussing Sen. John McCain’s false claim that Iranian operatives are "taking Al Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back," CNN’s Wolf Blitzer falsely asserted that McCain "quickly corrected [it] after some prodding from his Senate colleague, Joe Lieberman." Blitzer then aired a spliced video of McCain’s misstatement immediately followed by his "correct[ion]." In fact, as The Washington Post reported, it was later in the press conference when McCain was "[p]ressed to elaborate" on his claim and after he reiterated that "Al Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran," that Lieberman "stepped forward and whispered" in his ear. McCain then corrected himself.
But for that special peg-the-disgust-o-meter kinda feeling, I think we may have to select the GOP/Media’s resuming its favorite activity of the past twenty years: grabbing at Bill Clinton’s crotch. ABC’s Brian Ross started it, but soon all the usual suspects were piling on, and of course justifying it by claiming that the public had forced them to do so by expressing an allegedly unquenchable interest in eleven-year-old nookie. (Yes, Mistah Kurtz was part of the fray, though he tried to simultaneously pretend he was above it.)
Oh, and why do I like to invoke the name of Upton Sinclair? Because of something he first said in 1935: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." It’s become ever more obvious lately that the salaries of major American journalists and newsreaders depend on their not understanding a lot of things.
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Good morning Phoenix Woman!
what the hell is going on at Disney they they want more REPUKELICANS to grace the oval office….why does Disney hate American kids,and the whole planet? ask yourselves ,ask your friends
morning, PW & pups
What a wonderful quote and ever so accurately describes our ‘choose not to get it’ media.
Need to pop out to Trader Joe’s in a few minutes but will be back
The ‘media’ has had almost 8 years of ‘looking the other way’ when it comes to the idiot that Cheney propped up as Prez.
What is it? 303 days? This nightmare HAS TO END!!!!
Mickey Edwards’ take on the Cheney “So?”WaPo
yes and good morning…i really do wonder who is running DISNEYs anti dem bias
Does anyone known where I could find a list of the allegedly offensive things that Reverend Wright is supposed to have said? Thanks in advance.
Morning, everyone! The third day of spring sees about six fresh inches of snow on the ground where I live. How ’bout you?
My dad had a 6th grade education but he made “The Jungle” required reading for me.
and yeah. disney is bogus. they took alot of shit for being to accomodating to gays and maybe they’re just trying to “clean up their image” to satisfy the ignoramuses who complained. i dunno what’s up with the big mouse.
no snow in fl.
Morning PW.
In LA, it’s sunny and windy. Whole long wall of pink jasmine on the neighbor’s fence has got my allergies going big time. But, I’m not cold.
Good Morning!
no snow here…i call BS on this paragraph
I do not blame Dick Cheney for George W. Bush’s transgressions; the president needs no prompting to wrap himself in the cloak of a modern-day king. Nor do I believe that the vice president so enthusiastically supports the Iraq war out of a loyalty to the oil industry that his former employer serves. By all accounts, Cheney’s belief in “the military option” and the principle of president-as-decider predates his affiliation with Halliburton.
Darth has joined the ranks of the SUPER rich from this war of aggression,and so have his pals
Mornin’ Phoenix Woman and Firedogs
can not tell you how often I’ve referred to Sinclair in the last 7 years – an american giant –
gotta go sell some pies – have an FDL day y’all!
Edwards is way late in coming to this conculsion but he came to it. I would believe others are too. He still can’t let go entirely of his old buddy.
I don’t know of a list, but his church sells CDs.
time for you to go to the Farmers Market?
hey there!
Can we get a Disney boycott going? Please?
On another front, my local paper actually put together a very thoughtful article on the Wright controversy, employing an interview with a local minister who, when he served as youth pastor at a suburban Chicago church, used to take his confirmation class to Wright’s church. Why can’t the mainstream media do something this thoughtful?
304 Clusterfuckin days left according to my handy dandy George Bush calendar.
He’s fading daily.
By summer he should be seeing rigor mortis set in.
OT: Pat Buchanan channels Kipling:
PUKE!
Cheney receives order of merit, the Abdul Aziz Sash, for service to the state, from the Saudis.
It’s all beginning to make sense now.
If we win the White House, the press will do to Obama or Clinton what they did to Bill for eight years. They will paralyze him/her with constant false attacks that emanate from the bowels of the conservative attack machine.
I wish there were more progressive Democratic politicians who were talking about a crack down on the modern corporate media. If we don’t get them under control, I don’t think our policies have any chance of becoming law.
I wonder what is up with Time Warner, they keep Glenn Beck on the air and he makes me sick.
Im all for that…they are big HYPOCRITS….they want your babies FROM THE CRADLE…and support WAR MOMGERS …just say no to DISNEY and the other mindbenders…yes i saw prwviews of BODY OF WAR last night…go Moyers…Go Donahue,and the lady documentarian
Straightshooting campaign reformer John McCain illegally opted out of public financing because it was no longer convenient and exceeded its spending limits this week. This is another story that the press has suppressed because it conflicts with the narrative they have constructed for him.
ooopsie,…they support War MONGERS!!!!!
I find McCain’s embrace of Hagee reprehensible, but let’s be real. There’s no way Hagee is McCain’s “spiritual guide.” To try and equate their relationship with the Obama/Wright relationship is just silly. If you want to defend Wright, fine, but statements like that just undermine your credibility.
I don’t WANT to know who the candidate’s spiritual advisors are- keep it in yer pants!
Oh I don’t know. I can imagine King Abdullah saying to his staff: Give him that bath towel, call it something fancy, and then get this grasping nutcase out of here.
Yupper.
Sunny and windy here in San Diego too. Wisteria are starting to bloom.
I’m wondering though, how much the blogs influence conversations. I know that people are interested at my work, and discuss issues with me. At first, they’d say no way, can’t be true. Then I’d show them the information on the good blogs, and how well referenced everything is. They trust me now. When is the Sybil Edmunds information going to get out there though? My dad is really brilliant and reads the LA Times, Newsweek, and New Yorker, that I know of, and he hadn’t read anything about Sybil.
LOL. Over at Glenn’s site, William Timberman gives out kudos for “inspired typos”. If you had been referring to Coulter, I think WAR MOMGER would be entirely appropriate.
PW,
I love how you prove media bias with a simply google search stat.
This should be in the face of every media outlet and their pundits.
Good work. Clever.
Sybil has names to name and they reach right up there and she can point to hard evidence.
They will not let this see the light of day.
You people are so slow. w is descended from royalty so he deserves to be an autocratic ruler and he knows it. Apparently you don’t understand that. cheney has a right to be the supporter of the unitary executive because he knows things that you don’t. After all, he has access to all secret information. The children of the well-to-do class should not be in the military fighting all of these romantic wars (if w were younger, he would be right there with them.) because when the world has fully capitulated, those young people will need to be ready to be in charge.
I agree with ChrisO #27. There is no real comparison of Obama’s and McCain’s spiritual advisors. McCain hasn’t been attending any church for 20 years. I recall he actually blasted a number of his now endorsers in the last presidential primary.
Blasting the media for coddling McCain is fair, but don’t dilute your argument with a false comparison. It does weaken an otherwsie valid arguement.
I believe that the name you want is SiBEL Edmonds.
Oh! my! goodness! Did y’all see this one?
http://missoulian.com/articles…..news10.txt
Wants to run as a (D) yet appears to be well and truly tetched!
Been off-thread most of morning; apologies if you’ve already seen here or elsewhere.
a must read from truthdig
Yahoo
Posted on Mar 20, 2008
Truthdig / Zuade Kaufman
By Gore Vidal
I can recall that day in the 1930s when a “news” (sic) magazine appeared in Washington, D.C.; it was called Newsweek: meant to be a counterbalance to Time Magazine’s uncontrollable malice. In due course the two became sadly alike as Vincent Astor morphed into Henry Luce: Was it something in the water? I once asked Henry Luce why he called Time a news magazine when it was simply Uncle Harry’s means of venting his rage (this was 1960 or so) at liberals, and “degenerate art” like the plays of Tennessee Williams—he had no answer. At Newsweek Vincent Astor was far too stupid to answer any such complaint. Now here we are in the Newsweek of 2008, and it’s still lousy. There have been a few decent writers in between that were less nutty than today’s Newsweek hacks.Related Links
http://www.truthdig.com/report….._the_dead/
ok
Re: McCain challenged: he doesn’t the difference between Shia and Sunni also…
About 3 inches here in NW Indiana. When I got up it was still snowing lightly, but the sun has been out brilliantly for the past couple of hours.
McCain appears to be a senile or mentally challenged prevaricator who has no moral compass and is simply a power freak and will say and do anything for attention and to be close to power.
I don’t think he could touch someone like Obama in a REAL debate. But don’t expect a “real” debate.
Remember Bush in the debates? hahhaha
I wouldn’t waste a penny on MSM anymore.
Luckily we have the WWW to source information and learn what’s shakin.
The MSM is nothing but propaganda for the capitalists who run america.
Morning Loo Hoo.
Wish we lived closer. We could meet for brunch.
i agree…he ha s FATAL AMBITION
Concisely put.
and to Jim White @18: you should read that Gainseville Sun article again — not thoughtful — almost feeble!
and to all: In 2004, ‘… no white America, no black America….’ — In 2008, ‘… white America, black America….’ — paraphrases of a charismatic politician.
Finally, for over a year, Barack Obama pretended to be absent during and, to some degree, ignorant of the vitriol being spewed in his church. The main objective of his speech was to quash the growing realization of his denials among his supporters and his detractors. It appears that he did not discuss this with any members of his church’s clergy or congregation contemporaneous with the sermons.
Oh for gawd’s sake. Nutcase! (Blue cheese salad dressing recipe?)
I thought he didn’t know the difference between Shiite and shinola.
I went to that article in the Gainesville paper. It is nice that the pastor took the time and trouble to write a letter to his congregation, explaining to them why the reaction was so over the top. I wish more pastors around the country would follow his lead.
Relatedly, have you all seen the video clip of Chris Wallace dressing down the Fox morning people for their coverage of Wright? It’s a hoot! Sorry, no link. You can get there from TPM or Andrew Sullivan.
“…he doesn’t the difference between Shia and Sunni also…”
______
Hey, like whites/blacks/_____________, they all look alike anyway.
I suspect there is plenty of vitriol in lilly white churches as well.
Who cares?
Don’t go to church, you won’t have your mind polluted with vitriol.
Me too. Twould be fun.
You are spot on with this IMO. I think we’re going to have to do something about the media consolidation that has taken place, and bring back the fairness doctrine. The MSM whores are such a large part of the problem.
I don’t know the difference between shia and sunni.
Could someone explain.
PW,
Great post! Please, please keep on this track, since this is perhaps the most crucial issue facing us at the moment. Without control of the message machine, many fewer Repubs would be elected, and they would not be able to carry out their plans for Death and Destruction throughout the world.
It is essential that more of electorate understand what’s happening on the BigMedia front, and you expose the real story so well and hopefully are showing more and more people the light.
I’ve started feeling BigMedia within the last day or so is realizing they’re probably going to have to deal with a President Obama. They tried some old tricks again in the last couple weeks, and he’s seemed to come out of it even stronger. Hence all of a sudden, we have Pox Newz anchors criticizing their own coverage, Tweety Matthews singing Obama’s praises, and Politico saying he’s got it wrapped up. Are you f-ing kidding me?!?!
Predictably, many are falling for the Kabuki. I read through a thread at Obama’s site and it was filled with people falling for the Chris Wallets crap yesterday, “welcoming” the Fox anchors. Jeezus, we still have so far to go, but posts like this and others you’ve done certainly help wake people up to the fact the BigMedia is exists soley to push BigMoney-approved storylines on the electorate in order to keep BigMoney-approved candidates in office.
You are spreading the false assertion that Obama’s church spreads hate. Why are you doing that?
PW,
Your final Upton Sinclair quote is why media bobblehead pundits simply are blind to reality.
But isn’t that the point of having THAT pundit class? They can only see the world as the execs know they will. No litmus test required for the job. Just show you portfolio of investments.
Loo Hoo: Exactly. For most people, if it wasn’t on the evening news or drive-time radio, it didn’t happen. That’s why I emphasized the difference between the blog and MSM cites in the Google searches.
Not to be argumentative, but there’s more vitriol spewed here than at the church I attend.
From my experience anyway.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
Related to the above, Brevard County, FL had more foreclosures than home sales, in January or February, maybe both months. Anyone else with such a poor real estate market?
PS Brevard County is where Kennedy Space Center is located.
Ding!
Bonkers this may be they setup for the coming take down.
We was fooled, he talks the talk but there’s no there there. All hat and no cattle. Let’s turn to an adult finally.
How will they do it in defiance of what popular sentiment is about the man who can think?
Hello PW
Thank you for the sinclairian linkfest! Helps in fortifying the arguments we must make.
and demi
if you’re still around, thanks for Keb’ Mo’
been listening to lots of him all morning :)
I don’t know why we’re even debating these things anymore when our now presumptive candidate has already shown us the way: call, write or otherwise get the attention of those that would belabor all these distractions with the phrase, “Not this time!” Tell them we want to talk about the economy, healthcare, where the war is leading to, how we want our government to obey the laws and follow the Constitution, etc. But be sure they know it’s because we believe in Obama’s “Not this time!” We need to let them know on no uncertain terms that we’ve “Had Enough!” and will no longer tolerate their perversion of public discourse. Period!
My Mom and Dad lived in Brevard county before i moved them to Vegas. I sold their house last year, and to a huge haircut in doing so. Glad to be outa there.
SanderO: http://islam.about.com/cs/divi….._sunni.htm
And here: http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=7332087
I am reminding you that, at the very least, Obama silently sat through it and equivocated about his inaction, which belies his ‘uniting message.’
It seem like Everyone is taking the Rev. Wright’s comments out of context.
They are old sermons. He has retired.
I’ve heard a lot of comments by members of that congregation in the past week.
And, by out of context, I mean unless your were a in the congregation then and had been following his preaching, and you were part of that community, you shouldn’t be making gross generalizations about that church.
So, I agree with you..
Although it may not have been intended, I thought the footage of McCain’s trip was pretty pitiful. I actually think McCain would be an improvement over Bush, if the worst occurred, but he and his two sidekicks looked pretty bad. Although McCain used to be a fighter jock, the pictures of him in body armor and the extreemly longbilled red baseball cap had about the same effect as Michael Dukakis in the tanker’s helment. His brief presser made me think, “Please let those three onld and aging guys get out of the sun and back to their recliners.” Liebermann whispering to McCain was reminiscent of Nancy Reagan’s role during Ronald Reagan’s second term. And I don’t know what Lindsay Graham was doing, making faces and talking to the ground.
I haven’t any real experience what goes on inside of churches when they do their sermons. I do recall the old fire and brimstone stuff from school.
I assume that the pulpit is still used for political purposes. Wasn’t that what the moral majority was all about and using these “family values” voters to swing elections?
So glad you’re enjoying Keb.
Ding, ding, ding.
From: A Responsible Plan; Restore Public Trust in Media
Obama silently sat through it
Sat through what? Please state it directly. What are you accusing the church of? And please provide links.
By the way, what candidate are you supporting for President?
Thanks PW, you rock!
Issues?????????? discussions of substance by and in the MSM? Are you nuts? Neva gonna happen.
Smut, smears, sex scandal are what gets ratings.
We allowed the media to be turned into Page 6.
Can we have our airwaves back please?
Can we have a free (from corporate control) press please?
I am sorry about losing money on the house, but it is not likely to improve, KSC will be laying off 3,000 workers in 2010 when the Shuttle is retired.
Oh, shoot! Thought I had passed that along to you….but may have been someone else who expressed interest subsequently. Choose a thread on whose end I can attach it and will do so immediately, Didn’t keep the notes I added to it for the Lake; will try to remember what those were.
Morning, Phoenix, et al…
I’ve wondered where all the “upton Sinclairs” have gone, and I think they’re probably out there…but once they saw what was going on in the newsrooms of America, they went by their ethics and got the hell out.
Not at my church.
We each have our own opinions, but we should probably at least try to keep our verbalized ones limited to hands on experience.
That makes us more genuine.
What is feeble about this, from the article:
The argument is that Wright’s sermons need to be viewed in their entirety and in the context of how sermons are delivered in different churches.
I would take that a bit further and contrast Wright’s sermons with those of Falwell, Robertson and other fundamentalists. Wright, in his “God damn America” statement, was calling for damnation of America for where it had gone wrong in not caring for the poor or in waging ill-advised war. He then adds “God bless America” when it does the things in line with what he sees as the teachings of Christ. I think this is the soft landing Bachmann is speaking of and has been largely ignored in the media portrayal of Wright’s sermons.
Falwell, by contrast, says America is rightly damned for not persecuting gays. Which preacher would you say does a better job of following the message of the Sermon on the Mount?
I’ve said a few times this week that liarman is to mcIsane, what nancy was to ronnie.
Wow. Via Think Progress, an anonymous republican put a hold on judicial nominees.
Leahy’s letter to Bush:
We get it back by:
1. Fairness Doctrine reinstated and strengthened.
2. Undoing the “deregulation”of ownership and putting those safeguards of not allowing conglomerates.
With all due respect – rubbish. I opine about what I read and have very little practical experience. And when I do it is essentially anecdotal and would be dismissed.
We engage in debate and discourse and we don’t need to pass a litmus test of “having been there”.
The same BS about “experience” is raised in the presidential race.
What is important is the education of the person and their critical thinking skills and their ability to approximate objectivity in their decision making.
A simple search can reveal how out of context the various Wright quotes have been in the BigMedia. One of the lines that everyone’s repeating is a quote Wright was reading from someone else, which he made very clear when reading it.
Thankfully, Obama hasn’t used the typical Repub response to anything like this, and simply whined that Wright’s quote were “out of context.” Obama used it as a “teaching moment” for the country. Just brilliant. Anyone with kids understands that “teaching moments” are what life is all about.
I sometimes work with people like Wright, and have understood the different world they grew up in and understood and respected the strong language they use. My life has been much easier in regard to some of these issues because of the blood, sweat, and tears of Wright’s generation and before, and I approach problems much differently because of it. Again, Obama covered these dynamics perfectly. What a breath of fresh air!
Absolutely! I would also like to see truth in advertising rules that would force Fox News to repeatedly and publicly state on their network that they advocate conservative Republican rule.
From my reading of the citation. I don’t care for the Shia approach.
But I don’t believe in theocracies so it is moot. Obviously moslems believe themselves to be a “nation”. A nation to me is a secular creation.
The clips and CDs speak for themselves. Obama has admitted his acquiescence. Look up ‘belie’.
I am supporting the more experienced and competent candidate, Hillary R. Clinton. However I will vote for either Democratic candidate in the Presidential election, unless both screw up badly (in which case, I’ll probably write in McGovern once more).
I saw Keb open for Ray Charles several years ago. Just Keb and an acoustic guitar on a huge outdoor stage, and he tore it up!
The media wouldn’t know how to do context if it was staring them in the face.
Calling for the damnation of america is empty rhetoric. Who cares?
The US media doesn’t do a good job of covering America. More and more the BBC is reporting the things we need to know. Like the attempted White House Coup in 1933, or the My Lai Tapes, a collection of recordings from the investigation into the 1968 massacre recently found in the National archives.
Thank God for the internet and many sources of information, or we’d be in worse trouble than we are now.
The clips and CDs speak for themselves.
No, the clips are grossly out of context. I’ve watched extended portions of those sermons. And you certainly haven’t mentioned anything else from those CDs.
It’s shocking how you are willing to smear an entire church and its congregation based on a few short clips cobbled together by Fox News and ABC.
I opine about what I read and have very little practical experience.
But, if you only know what you read, then you are taking someone else’s opinion for what it’s worth.
And we go on and on about how the msm is rubbish.
You can’t eat your cake and have it too.
What is the threshold for “experience”?
How would the experience of any of the candidates inform their work as president?
Experience is not as important as education and critical thinking and honesty.
Hillary is honesty challenged it seems. She’s been caught in several serious truth telling episodes. She is smart. But I don’t think of her as honest.
McCain is dumb as a fence post, by his own admission.
Obama seems bright and inspirational, but largely only a potential. I think he has enough experience when you consider: Lincoln, FDR, JFK who had little experience but rose to the occasion.
From OpenCongress:
Actually, I thought it was pretty useful rhetoric in pointing out what he liked and didn’t like about America’s actions.
I’m grateful that others here are talking about CONTEXT.
That’s part of critical thinking.
I’m not a fan of fire and brimstone stuff and theatrical deliveries, and not particularly religeous in any conventional sense, but I think clips of Moses, in the old testiment, telling the chosen people all that was going happen to them if they didn’t stop messing around with false idols and other infractions, might have sounded pretty similar.
The BBC is still pretty weak on Presidential campaign politics and generally follows the story lines created by the US media.
A little humor, I had a professional job at Kennedy Space Center and for a while my office was in a converted railroad car! No windows, but they did but in a door for us.
Amen! I really think that all this New Media came together just in time. It was getting dire, where the DLC infiltrators had almost completely taken over the DemocratIC Party. If the trends of the 80s and 90s would’ve been allowed to continue unchecked, I think it would’ve required a violent revolt down the road to restore some semblance of the Constitution.
Let’s go back to Pull up a Chair. Thanks!
That would be one FINE day, eh?
I can personally testify to the fact of leaving a newspaper job because I had qualms about the “reporting”. I wasn’t going to sign my name to a report that I didn’t feel did justice to the subject at hand…especially if it were biased.
Demi,
I am sorry, I learn from reading more than experiencing as most people do. I read with a grain of salt so I don’t simply accept everything I read as gospel. I think we all do that.
Rather than not have an opinion, I hold one and revise it as things develop.
EG. I thought debbie (how cute) wasserman-schultz was pretty good. Lately I have come to see her as quite flawed and probably too concerned with the welfare of Israel. This seems to color her behavior and allegiances.
Israel has some serious accounting to do for what it has done to the Palestinian people.
It is absolutely true the the MSM has bent over backwards to downplay Hagee’s vituperative comments while latching onto Wright’s equally bitter statements. However, the reverse is equally true for the pro-Obama blogs and biased media personnel like KO.
Listened to parts of multiple reruns of the DoS presser with the mouthspeak talking about the passport fiasco. Those with accents that “t’weren’t from here” were pretty obviously of much better journalistic quality than those asked by US voices.
Preachers use “hot” rhetoric. Ask Marshall McCluen
OT there is this story of problems in community WiFi, bascially that Earthlink bailed on it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..ref=slogin
It is in its own way not a bad article but it ignores and never mentions the hostility of telecoms to community WiFi and their efforts to spike it wherever and whenever they can.
well in that context…Dick Cheney and president dumbshit ,have the most experience in the world
You are fighting fact with fiction.
Perhaps, Hugh, but I saw a report on the BBC last week where they interviewed a young Iraqi boy who had not been outside since the war started five years ago. He wasn’t allowed outside because family members had been gunned down after stepping outside.
It was stunning to watch this young one describe the kind of life he has experienced.
Right on Sue,
There’s lots of hot chatter out there. Cool heads need to prevail in all this.
I like Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Naomi Klein, just to name a few. Good analysis there.
Not this time, SanderO! Demand is what we make it! Nobody is going to give our airwaves back just because we say please. We have to become so loud that we take the airwaves back. Shout it out…NOT THIS TIME!
i dont think KO is bias,he is originally a sports caster and…CALLS em as he SEEs em
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” ~ Sinclair
Yep. That’s it in a nutshell.
I saw mccain clips from three or four days in a row last night and in every one of them Liberman is tagging along.
Doesnt the guy have a day job?
Sorry (always forget to say the following *giving myself a V8 juice bonk to the forehead*)….great post Phoenix Woman as usual! ;-)
This whole incident has revealed that we have little real privacy in this country and that getting you “data” is easy as pie. FISA and so forth are just window dressing and make believe. When the man wants your data, they take it. Easy as pie.
You refer to an Iraq story. I would agree that the BBC does a better job than US media on international stories, but their coverage of American politics often makes me thinks that they don’t really get the point.
Will do but remember I’m on slow speed dial-up. Give me a mo’ or two before sending to try to add notes vs. tacking them on later.
this will produce BLOWBACK …and permanent enemies….something about what Dr. Wright was talking about
I think he is biased to the left. But then I think that the narrative of the left is more based in critical rational thinking than the idiotic false market based assumptions of the right.
I became a leftists because it made good sense.
Doesn’t it?
They do a much better job of covering the big picture. They see that our politics are crazy, so why bother to explain the details of insanity to sane people in other countries? IMHO.
Interesting analogy. But in this case the chosen people are AAs and the infidels are Whites. An unfortunate association for someone who claims to be beyond race and whose success depends on crossover White votes in the red states.
I second that PW terrific article!
he does…he is the bureaucratic prick that takes notes…and TENDS the BULL IN A CHINA SHOP
That’s not surprising.
Gotcha.
And, Sadelyyes at 123–my thoughts exactly. How dare they show the human side of this??
KO’s show is not biased. The fiction some are peddling is that the two campaigns (Obama and Clinton) are perfectly equal in every way, and therefore any criticism from the press shows bias. The truth is that Obama’s campaign has been very different and is not in the same old style that we get from Clinton, McCain, Romney and even Edwards.
i have no idea…he seems to like FAIR PLAY
No, I’m not fighting anything. I’m trying to explain to you why President Clinton may, afer research, called Wright in to be one of his soulful counsellors. If both Clinton and Obama are religious, as they both protest, they both realize that ministers use biblical language and nation states and patriotism, as we undestand them did not exist.
I’m not so sure about the fairness doctrine. I want to come here and read progressive posts. I don’t want it to be “fair” and read Ann Coulter, for example. I don’t want every other segment on KO to have a counter view.
I just think the waves themselves need to be fairly distributed. Am I understanding the fairness doctrine correctly?
http://www.mailtribune.com/
Obama’s just taking the stage here in our little corner of Oregon. Place sold out in less than a hour, but local tv is broadcasting the whole thing.
PS: This would include things like announcing a boycott of sponsors of tripe and drivel like what occurred on Faux news that so annoyed Chris Wallace the other day. That would include becoming vocal with the sponsors as well as the stations. It would be amazing, I think, how fast even the most dedicated businessman/neocon would convert his station if he sees his profits turn to shit! Economics count, as do all their little stockholders, of which some of us are included, I’d be willing to bet. I heard someone the other day went to Soros and asked him to finance elections, but he wouldn’t do it. OTOH, he played with the economy of Poland at a crucial time for them. Wonder if he’d like to game some of those bigmouths who are so into keeping this country from becoming an open society. If not, there’s still an awful lot of us.
What are you referring to? What statements and which person?
When did Barack Obama claim to be beyond race? He acknowledged that all of us have to look in the mirror to get beyond this problem.
I think the Fairness Doctrine was more about substance than about opinion. Just the facts, ma’am…just the facts.
loo hoo at 83-
spector was on rush, i think yesterday, saying that he sent letters to leahy and reid about judicial nominees—said he was going to push them on….said he was going to follow through…used a quote from phil graham, that you don’t take the puck if you’re not going to shoot it//all paraphrased.
asshat
so, your link sounds interesting in light of that.
going to go read your links now
I actually like when smart lefties demolish stupid right wing dolts in real debate.
Imagine if they let some smart lefties at these idiots… Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, Naomis Klein and Wolfe… Amy Goodman,John Pilger, Greg Pallast, Jeremy Scahill, Jane Hamsher, Christy, Eli, Ian Welsh and the list goes on and on.
They… the MSM are afraid to let this intellectual slaughter happen so we get Juan Williams and Susan Paige and Joe Klien and Alan Colmes…
There is this new poll result that shows that most Americans had a favorable view of Obama’s speech on race and agreed with him on it. It also shows that the Wright controversy has had little overall effect on support for him.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..tpop_story
What I find interesting about this is how it undercuts the narrative of so many pundits that this has hurt Obama. But then what have the pundits gotten right about the campaigns this year?
A whole hour on Obama’s passport being viewed by unauthorized contractors, and you don’t see it as bias? From my perspective KO’s bias became overt from the time of the FL primary and has never looked back since. Taking the sports analogy further, if KO had been a referee in Columbia there would have been a soccer riot by now.
Here is a good piece at BAGNEWS
re Lieberman babysitting McCain
Ann,
I try to buy as little of these corporate commercial products that sponsor MSM.
I am already as off the corporate grid as I can be, well almost.
Advertising rates are BS. The whole means of supporting corporate broadcast media is such a flawed model.
Can we free ourselves from commercials? I never ever watch them. Do you?
As I remember the “fairness doctrine,” if an opinion was offered, then it was necessary to offer a countervailing opinion…
Facts, however could stand by themselves and did not need any refutation or faux balance.
from BAGNEWS –
What is becoming abundantly clear (at least, studying the images “with the sound off”) is that McCain not only lacks any idea how to present himself professionally to the public, but that he seems characterologically unable to lend himself to this kind of management.
Comparing Dubya to McCain in terms of basic raw material, there may not be much difference in terms of underlying meagerness of vision, patience and depth. The major difference, however, is that Bush — as Rove’s construction — was a near-perfect study in terms of staying in role and following his (mostly written out) lines.
I have to admit, I didn’t hear the anti-white language. And I am a white male. I heard a reference to the fact that Hillary Clinton cannot truly understand what it is to be black, which is probably true. I heard something absurd that I didn’t like, about white’s introducing AIDs as a means of genocide. Of course I found the suggestion abhorrent, and still do, but I did remeber the Tuskegee Experiments, which were abhorrent and factual, so I could accept a continued outarage. Ultimately, I thought Obama’s expalantion of that was both truthful and eloquent.
The bottom line is, Hilary Clinton no longer has a chance of winning the primary by any means other than somehow convincing superdelegates to disregard all votes and delegates. If that occurred, African American Democrats would leave the party, and I wouldn’t blame them. At this point, efforts by any Democrat to discredit Obama are destructive to the Democratic Party and to the future of the country.
I would only apply the fairness doctrine to companies that use the public airwaves to broadcast their message. Cable networks would be covered, along with broadcast TV networks and satellite networks. AM/FM and satellite radio would be covered.
Websites would not be covered. There are of course lots of questions here because the technology is merging and people can view internet programs on their Tivo’s, for example. But I think things could be worked out.
Pundits are trying to tank the populist and testing their ability to shape public opinion.
For some reason they are proving themselves to be incompetent prognosticators, but they keep their jobs because they are whores and they are doing what the front office wants them to do.
Seems to me that KO is making way too much sense and is good at what he does and that’s why there some who have a problem with him.
Truth is a left wing bias and some can’t handle it. ;-)
The Fairness Doctrine applied to opinion shows. There had to be a balance. The newscasts were basically just about facts.
Faux News could not exist before the FD was eliminated.
I don’t care that Keith leans left. He’s one on that side against hundreds or thousands on the other side.
Will this be ebnough for MSNBC to let him go peddle this racsit bullshit somewhere else? Whites have done so much for blacks (PUKE is right) I hope hope hope someone calls his ass out on MSNBC (Rachel, are you reading this?)
What a waste of skin
Left leaning means….one who understands what is happening and one who views the world through a common-sense-lens.
I think the key here is completely UNCONSOLIDATING the media so that there could be more competition of ideas.
Oligopoly is not good for anyone but the Oli’s.
Take a walk through history and see and hear Reverend Wright’s whole sermon:
http://www.opednews.com/maxwri…..nkid=55067
Just got here, maybe you have it already
Of course not! That was a huge breaking news story that had just broken and continued to develop significantly during the broadcast. He did it exactly right! Perhaps you’d have an argument if he did that the next night, but he didn’t.
I just think some non-Obama supporters are pissed that the story pushed the Wright story aside. I’m seeing viewer bias, not KO bias.
IMO it’s more important to do away with the media consolidation that has taken place. Rip a large part of the ownership from Rupert Murdock.
Loo Hoo -
There now. Let me know what you think…hope you like it.
from Ratbastahd’s newspaper -
“That one speech really did it for me,” he said.
SueN, let me guess…you would have been happier if KO had focused on the woman who got zapped in the head by a sting ray rather than focus on another felony being committed by George Bush’s Criminal White House?
I’m watching and listening to Obama’s appearance in Oregon on livestreaming from CNN.com. He’s just started for anyone who wants to hear. He says it mostly will be town hall style.
(((ANN))) you rock!!!
But you don’t know what was said that made Obama cringe anymore than the oundits on Tv. So you would be projecting
Fairness Doctrine.
Yuppers. But might contend we have NO privacy left. Am starting to try to leave a less obvious trail but, unfortunately, it appears there’s not much way to do that wrt the really important stuff.
Me too
Measure this against any security breach you can think of…
The US Department of State being repeatedly snooped by outside contractors, exposure of some of the most personal and private records Americans will ever give to their government, and happening over a broad time-frame, and intentionally withheld from upper-level scrutiny…
That’s not a run-of-the-mill scandal – this is criminality and negligence on a monumental scale.
How do you NOT devote as many hours as are needed to report it?
Excellent news about Americans liking Obama’s speech. Gives hope.
Some Americans don’t like the truth to be reported. They see it as biased and it hurts their feelings. See? Someone like SueN believes the media should only be doing stories on animals, lollipops, and fuzzy baby bunnies, because when the media reports the truth on the Bush White House and spends more than a minute on it, the SueN’s cringe and feel uncomfortable. They would rather do away with the media altogether…well…unless it was ROM (republican owned media) then they could feel good about themselves and their own thoughts and stances.
Just guessing… ;-)
I won’t even ask why was it bias when at the time the story broke, he was the only known victim and now that they have found that all three candidates were victims, they have been reported it as so (all three)
(I’m arguing with the universe again, aren’t I?)
Let’s hope that it will be re-instated come the next dem administration
BTW anyone catch this one at the NYT about Pharygnula, aka PZ Myers?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..lledw.html
Looks yummy! Thanks. I’ll share with late night if that’s okay with you.
What was missing about this passport story is how it ties into the whole domestic spying shit that is going down.
It puts a lie to the notion that we have privacy rights under the 4th amendment FISA PAA telcom immunity nothwithstanding.
When da man wants to spy on you, they do it, they can do it, they don’t need no warrants and no one is stopping anyone. That’s freaky.
[insert echoey voice]…
“The reason why Clinton & McCain were added in as an afterthought is because after thinking about it….the Bush Regime’s State Dept. realized it had targeted the black candidate only in their quest to divide the nation and needed in the two white candidates to make themselves feel better and to give the impression they weren’t intentionally targeting anyone…”
Sincerely,
The Universe
LOL
It’s also about abuse of power too.
Ah, wobbly, given the size of the universe, if we are to believe such speculations, there appears plenty of room for argument. :)
I think a lot of you folks need to direct your objections to Obama. Did he not say ”I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy.” and that Wright’s remarks ”…expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country”? I’ve seen many references to Obama’s ”courage” for making this speech. So did he say things he didn’t believe in order to make this controversy go away? Or did he actually believe what he said? If so, how can you criticize people for not having ”been there?” Obama was there, more than anyone on this board, I reckon, and he seemed to find plenty to criticize in Wright’s comments.
For the record, my problem with Wright’s remarks stems not so much from the content, although I find the ”riding dirty” stuff to be pretty disgusting. My problem is that Obama has known that Wright was a liability, and tried to keep him under wraps. Then when the videos came out (as any politician should have known that they would) he handled it very poorly. It was revealed to me once again that Obama is at his best when he can completely control the situation. His initial comments were disingenuous, at best. He needed to take two days and write a pretty speech to deal with the situation. I sure hope he has that kind of time whenever he has to respond to a controversy during the GE. Unless he can deliver a flowery speech, in a setting he controls, he’s not particularly good on his feet.
His speech was very well written. But it is beyond me how he can be held up as a symbol of ”courage” for being essentially dragged kicking and screaming to the podium to give a speech he never wanted to give, and address racial issue that he still wouldn’t be talking about if the issue hadn’t been thrust upon him.
This all goes to the larger issue of how much Obama supporters are willing to forgive from their candidate, as if the general electorate is going to be as forgiving. His speech carried essentially the same message as Clinton’s 1995 speech, and I’m sure you could find many others that are similar in tone. He basically said ”both sides have reasons to be angry, and we have to understand each other and find a common ground.” Is anyone really contending that he’s the first to address this?
He talked about things that ”no one’s talking about.” Well, he still wouldn’t be talking about them if he wasn’t forced to. That’s not my idea of a profile in courage. Especially since he’s the only one who could broach the subject. Please think objectively about what the reaction from Obama supporters would have been if Hillary had said ”Let’s talk about race.” How many times would the term ”race card” be used?
I’ve also seen that we should admire his character for not throwing Rev. Wright under the bus. Samantha Power, Billy Shaheen, Gerry Ferraro all had to leave a campaign because of what they said. The candidates said the same thing about those people that Obama said about Wright, except for the crazy uncle stuff (how demeaning is that?) So he’s doing the standard campaign move, but trying to dress it up by saying ”I won’t turn my back on him.” Great, he won’t do what no one is asking him to do. I don’t recall Hillary saying that Geraldine Ferarro was banished forever from her life. How is calling him a crazy uncle, saying his remarks are caused by bitterness, categorically disavowing his remarks, and having the guy leave the campaign any different from what has happened in every other instance? The only thing he didn’t do was physically place the man under a bus.
And not only did he not say anything about what he thought we should do about the issue, more importantly, he didn’t say anything about what he has done to address the issue. He did, however, manage to conflate Ferarro’s remarks with Wright’s, and close with a little anecdote about how important it was to vote for him. I guess I missed that part of MLK’s 1963 speech.
It would be a lot easier to appreciate the good parts of the speech if Obama supporters didn’t try to make it so much more than what it was. Great oratory does not make a great man.
“… that made Obama cringe….” (and, at the time sit on his hands, then latter equivocate) should be sufficient.
To conflate and older woman’s irrational, personal fears with those from the pulpit — you be the judge.
***needed TO ADD in the two white candidates
Correction to #176. ;-)
You might be on to something there
OT
any paul thorn fans?
paul thorn is on the radio show bob edwards weekend………interview starts 20 minutes into the program, and he kept him for a long interview……is fantastic!
on npr here…….
seriously, find the show, the interview is really good.
if you aren’t a fan, you will be after you hear this interview.
what a unique, interesting, full of heart individual.
http://www.bobedwardsradio.com…..s-weekend/
but oh so pointless as well, since it is infinite
Thank you.
The ID people are simply crazies
Which allows each of us the illusion that we occupy its ‘center’.
Obama just said he wants to break the fever of fear that has been controlling our politics. This is so that he can stop the war and stop the mindset that gets us into war.
That’s what I thought too. I don’t believe that Hillary’s passport was scrutinized, much less McCains. It’s something that came out the the Department of Lessons Learned. (Okay, neither the google or wiki had that department, but it’s something Bush invented and put into place). It is a really stupid name, too.
The paradox was that statments made by two people special in his life (pastor-black, grammy-white) and how he could disavow what they said but not disavow either one of them as a person. That is something that many of us wrestle with in our family and circle of friends.
That was my understanding of his speech and I understand that people, such as yourself, will have their own take but one thing that maybe we can agree on is that your not going to change my mind and i’m not going to change yours.
Or that it is just a metaphor for a pointless argument *g*
ChrisO – the by this calculation, Senator Clinton and Senator Obama are both constrained from giving the “race speech.”
Is this what we have come to – where they have to go into a room and toss a coin to see who gets to deliver it?
Nice tidbit from prwatch: Yes He Can… Create Front Groups
Helps to explain Obama lack of leadership in relation to FISA and telco immunity.
Read about that at Myers blog the other day. Hysterical. Good to see it in the NYTimes.
Good points you make. I’m just wild arsed guessing, but I’ll bet Obama spoke with Wright before the speech, and had his blessing. I doubt he was blind-sided by the uncle remark either. Wright wants Obama to win, and I see Obama as a respectful person.
Elaborate? What are the other candiates leadership on this?
I’m choosing hope over hate.
To the degree that we hone our perspectives, practice is not pointless, but as you so diplomatically shared your understanding with old91 @ 190,
at best, we may hope to actually be ‘heard’, not change minds …
The key here is….were the contract employees fired ALSO in addition to the ones who were who looked at Obama’s passport? I haven’t heard. Something tells me these are ghost employees who only exist in the head of Condi Rice. See?
btw
Take Back America is on CSPAN right now, Norman Lear has been speaking
Chris this is a good analysis.
I am not a fervent Obi supporter because he is largely unknown to me. I support him because he is the better of the two and he seems to be a bright guy with a moral compass.
Like all politicians, they are sleazy to some extent. He is no exception.
I don’t think what the preacher at the church he attends should matter any more than the fact that the Clinton called him in for spiritual help when he was exposed as a jerk for having oral sex in the oval office toilet with someone less than half his age.
If you put any politician under the microscope you will reveal ugly stuff and certainly inconsistencies and some outright hypocrisy.
Hill is no dummy. But she screwed by big time with the AMUF and failing to admit she was a dork. And then the flag burning law. Another big boner. And then she said MI should count after she said it shouldn’t. And she called McCain more qualified than Obi. She’s made an awful lot of dorky statements and moves. I am not comfortable with her and she is in bed with big bankers and corporations.
Obi is a “green” smart and flawed populist, largely a tabula rasa. He is inspiring many new voters and many who felt disenfranchised for 250 years. That alone is reason to support him if he can get the people fired up and participating in their government. And finally a lot of what Wright said was spot on even if it was firey language and not how a pol would frame it.
People say bone headed stuff.
I’m not a Clinton supporter if that is what your trying to get at.
HRC doesn’t have the ability to experience life as a black any more than BO has the ability to experience life as a woman. Race/gender has nothing to do with a persons ability to lead. This whole debate allows the MSM to continue to ingore the really pressing problems facing this country. It’s not like we’re fighting two wars or banks are going bust and jobs are fleeing at alarming rates. Nothing to see here…..
NOT THIS TIME.
He’s talking about remixing resources available for the creative activists
Remix America
Me too.
Nice writing. Thoughtful.
And, oh, I agree with you.
Right. That’s why Waxman is asking for names, and Condi ain’t providing them. It’s gonna be fun.
No one is being denied that right or honor, or have you seen something different? He/She has aoready made up their mind about Obama and his speech and I have made up my mind as well. But my universe comment was not even directed at this poster, rather one who has a history of making statements with which aren’t conducive to debate or discussion
Let’s keep this about the issues and not about the commenters, please.
It’s too bad Obama doesn’t have ol’ Uppie (as H.L. Mencken used to call him) to advise him. Greg Mitchell’s 1992 chronicle of the Sinclair for CA gov campaign, The Campaign of the Century, will spook anyone who reads it. Replace the names of Depression-era newspaper publishers with “Roger Ailes, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News Bimbo, et al.” and Mitchell’s book could easily be about the Obama campaign.
If I was getting at that, I would have said that. I simply asked if you knew the leadership on this issue for the other candidates. That isn’t a fair question?
kayak in the car — these creaky old bones are going paddling
and as your CSPAN reporter today:
next up is Martin Luther King and the Progressive Movement
then at 3:20 Barack Obama and Bill Richardson.
and he seemed to find plenty to criticize in Wright’s comments.
That’s because there are things to criticize, just as there are things to criticize about the “Why Should God Bless America” song sung at the Values Voter debate.
My problem is that Obama has known that Wright was a liability, and tried to keep him under wraps.
Where is your evidence that he tried to keep him under wraps?
Then when the videos came out … he handled it very poorly.
Bullshit. It was perfectly fine. It was only days later when everyone realized the press wasn’t letting this go, that he realized it was important to give a speech about who he was, so that Fox News would not define him. I love how people come along afterwards and criticize Obama for not seeing exactly how everything would play out. No one knows that. People keep doing that about Kerry in 2004. It is not fair.
But it is beyond me how he can be held up as a symbol of ”courage” for being essentially dragged kicking and screaming to the podium to give a speech he never wanted to give…
Bullshit! Where is your evidence he was dragged kicking and screaming? That’s just a baseless smear. That long and dramatic speech was extremely courageous, talking about the fundamental issues of race. A typical politician would just “denounce and reject” the guy and move on, hoping to never talk about it again.
This all goes to the larger issue of how much Obama supporters are willing to forgive from their candidate, as if the general electorate is going to be as forgiving.
What exactly is their to forgive?
His speech carried essentially the same message as Clinton’s 1995 speech, and I’m sure you could find many others that are similar in tone. He basically said ”both sides have reasons to be angry, and we have to understand each other and find a common ground.” Is anyone really contending that he’s the first to address this?
No, Bill Clinton used divisive triangulation, totally different from Obama’s speech. And we are talking about people who are leading the nomination race for a major political party. It is uncommon for a politician in that position to take a risk like that.
He talked about things that ”no one’s talking about.” Well, he still wouldn’t be talking about them if he wasn’t forced to. That’s not my idea of a profile in courage.
Because as a black candidate, if he talked a lot about race, he’d be branded as “The Race Candidate”. The same is true with Clinton, who can’t constantly only focus on women’s issues because she’d be unfairly branded.
Nice smear job there!
The more of the Clinton campaign I see the more I am reminded of Karl Rove and George W. Bush. Attack, attack, never apologize.
-G
What other candidates are there besides Clinton and McCain?
Have a good time. No hard feelings here.
It sure is gonna be fun! I bet Condi is scheduling tons of shoe shopping vacations as we speak. ;-)
No one could have forseen the breach of security.
-G
K. but might want to try it yourself first to make sure it passes muster. *g*
I don’t think anyone ever said that Obama waste first to raise the issue of race, or a racial conversation. We all know Bill Clinton did that before leaving office. Obama, I’m sure, believed that there enough absolutely critical issues that this country has to deal with in this election, that he would have preferred that the issue had not been raised. Me to. Ms. Clinton too, I’m sure. When it was raised, he dealt with it eloquently. I will say that I don’t remember President Clinton mentioning why white people may sometimes have a reasonbable dislike for affirmative action, busing, and other programs. Obama did.
If you don’t have friends, family, pastors, employers, or others who you like and respect, and who you believe on the whole are good contributing human beings, but who have some absurd, even harmful ideas, or express ideas in such a way, then you must have a circle of acquaintances, or be so doctrinaire on your ideas that you choose to limit the circle.
You choose to view and interpret what Obama says and does from a negative or cynical point of view. While I did not view Hillary Clinton that way,and frequently defended her, I could find no explanation for her promotion of John McCain’s qualificatons, along with her own, other than a desparate shot as saving her campaign, despite the consequences to the party. I must admit, since then, I cannot view her without believing that she is promoting her candidacy without regard to anything else. The bottom line is that she can no longer win, without convincing the superdelegates disregard voters and delegates. If so, African Americans will leave the Democratic Party. I frankly don’t understand how any Democrat, or person who believes a continuation of Republican policies is disasterous, can work to undermine Obama.
I just used the term theother candidates, those would be them. You linked to an article and said that this explains O’s lack of leadership on the issue and I asked:
What are the other candidates (Clinton/McCain) doing on this front? It was a question and I’m am now perplexed what was wrong with the question
Good take take down of points of poor thinking.
I don’t like to use words like courage and so forth.
I do think this nation has a problem with race and hopefully a non white president might help with this blight. We also have a problem with sexism, but we are much further along with that horror.
We have a long way to go.
Golly, woobly, I was agreeing with you and appreciating you style, class, grace and wit, not looking to argue. Misunderstanding?
Nor could we have foreseen how many shoe stores there are in America! Wow Condi. You’re a dynamo! As my father would say upon seeing someone doing something fast (dancing, shoe shopping, running, etc.), “You’re gonna blow a sneakah if you’re not careful!”. LOL
I thought the more informative question was about how Obama’s PR manager influences Obama’s policy positions.
*g* must have been. My apologies
Thank you. (hard feelings) Nor, here — except for f*** Bush, et al.; neocons; and religionistas. Now, I’m outta here!
Maybe, but it was my question. I apologize it it doesn’t meet the more informative threshold, but I was afterall asking a question regarding the statement you made after linking the article. i think I have my answer now. thanks
I don’t think it’s reasonable to accuse Obama of trying to hide Wrights sermons. IIRC, FOX news purchased the DVD’s of the sermons in the Church bookstore.
I have heard Obama speak about racism frequently.
What’s wrong with taking a couple of days to write an important speech.. in response to the breaking spin machine? he wrote the spech in a timely direct response to the reaction of the day.
I agree, he should not have dismissed Samantha Powers, but I do think Hillary did the correct thing by distancing herself from Ferraro.
As for the last part of you comment I simply have to wonder if we read or listened to the same speech?
I don’t have to declare my support of any candidate to say I thought Obama handled himself extraordinarily well over the last week.
Despite the flaws.. it’s been inspiring to see the man address these issues in an honest forthright manner which I have not seen a major politician do at all (much less effectively) in my forty three years, except on historical tape or in history books.
teehee, I like that, blow a sneakah
I thought I was a shoe horse…she has me beat because I kind of rank human welfare above shoe shopping and all
I disagree. My point wasn’t that Obama shouldn’t give a speech about race. I’m simply saying that I would see him as much more of a leader on this issue if he didn’t stay relatively silent on the matter until forced to address it under duress.
He’s been campaigning for almost a year and a half now. Did you know that?
LOL My father has lots of great sayings. He never ceases to amaze me. ;-)
Condi uses shoe shopping as a way to escape the hard stuff. We have no evidence that she actually purchases shoes. See? She’s the kind of person who, when asked the tough questions, will find any excuse to leave and hopes her time away will make everyone forget about it.
Damn. excellent comment. hat tip
Well then we should also talk about those positions, right? He has denounced warrantless wiretaps in his speeches.
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9845595-7.html
He has spoken out against retroactive immunity:
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk…..y_deal.php
He has also said he will review every single Bush signing statement and throw out all that are unconstitutional.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_8492078
Both Clinton and Obama aren’t “leading” on these issues because most voters out there want to hear about the economy, health care and Iraq.
reminds me of my grandfather…he had a few zingers
standing O for Obama at end of town meeting mentioned above.
He said, i’m not doing Kumbaya here, i’ve been accused of being naive here, and im not. we have to end these divisions because they are used as distractions every political season. What were the issues last few elections? Gay Marriage? The planet is potentially being destroyed and we’re debating gay maarriage?
Whoops, I meant to say “executive order” not “signing statement”.
right on! I wish I had been able to see his spech
I have not seen Obama take an active stance in the senate.
You can’t talk sense and be taken as a serious candidate in the media. How silly.
Well you guessed wrong. You are trivializing and ridiculing what I had written and I don’t appreciate it.
This is troubling.
He may have been biding his time and seeing how things work rather than jumping into the battle. I am not pleased with critters that don’t do the work of the people.
And this, in your universe, is conducive to debate or discussion?
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but he’s running for President! He and Clinton and McCain have been on the road traveling day after day after endless day around this very large country.
What the hell do you want him to do? Stop campaigning and start a filibuster on an issue that most Americans aren’t even aware of?
You may not have noticed, but John Edwards has dropped out of the race. It’s fair to say that he had a good deal of support from the blogosphere. And yet people didn’t vote for him. You are conflating the interests of the blogosphere with those of the ordinary American who is trying to get by and who is not paying close attention to politics.
I never said it was my universe. I take it that you have never heard of the expression
OK, I’ll try to address the points you raised one at a time.
1) You agree there was plenty to criticize in Wright’s comments. What I was referring to was the many comments that Wright was taken out of context, that a fine man was being slandered, this is the way they talk in black churches, etc. Either Wright is being taken out of context and slandered, or there’s plenty to criticize.
2) you ask “Where is your evidence that he tried to keep him under wraps?” There’s plenty of evidence, but I’ll just cite this NY Times article: “According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03…..obama.html
3) You defend his initial handling of the affair. His first response, as in the Goolsby case, was to dissemble. He said he “wasn’t in church that day” which was clearly intended to give the impression that he had no idea Wright said these things. In his speech, he said that he has heard Wright say many controversial things he has disagreed with. He was clearly walking back from his initial statement.In the Goolsby case, he also denied that a meeting had taken place, even though he only had to check with one guy.
4) “Where is your evidence he was dragged kicking and screaming?” Are you contending that he would have made that speech any time soon without the Wright controversy erupting? I can point to the fact that he made that speech specifically to address the controversy. What can you point to? And by the way, can you please stop using the bullshit term “smear”? Everything is a smear to you guys. The word has lost all meaning.
5) “What exactly is their to forgive?” Obama says he doesn’t know how he would have voted on AUMF if he was in the Senate, and we’re told he was just being loyal. He missed the Kyl-Lieberman vote (yet still criticizes Hillary for her vote) and we’re told that he was misinformed about when the vote would be held. 98 Senators showed up for that vote. He refuses to answer the press’s questions on Rezko, and we hear that “the papers have thoroughly reported on it.” Obama votes “present” 130 times, and we’re told they were all abortion bills, or that he was “providing cover” to other legislators, despite the fact that he voted present on a variety of anti-crime bills that would have gotten him in trouble with his constituents.
6) OK, this is where the burden’s on you. Here’s a link to the speech. Please point out the passages where Bill Clinton used “divisive triangulation.”
http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/clinton-e6.html
Someone above said Obama was quick on his feet and needed to prepare speeches. I’ve also heard that he is too idealistic and doesn’t give concrete plans. I disagree on both counts based on what I just watched. He gave about a 30 minute speech then took questions from the audience for another 30 minutes. He talked about a ton of important issues: the economy, education, the environment, foreign policy, etc. and it was very balanced between the ideology of hope and reality, and he gave plenty of specific details about what he would do.
Even though I wasn’t in the arena, I could feel the excitement of the crowd and it was very cool seeing so many friends, neighbors, and acquaintances who were actually there.
It sounds to me as if you are more concerned with Obama’s campaign rhetoric rather than his role in the legislative process.
If that is your interest, fine.
Sorry “Not quick on his feet” is what I meant to say. Preview is my friend.
Furthermore, IMO he didn’t address the matter of his judgment, having been associated with a radical Black church for two decades and taking a divisive figure as his spiritual mentor. I believe that most liberal, educated people would walk out of a setting like this and seek a less confrontational church for their family; I would. Mr. Obama showed a lot more caution when he actively avoided being photographed with Mayor Newsom in SF for fear of being tainted over the same-sex marriage controversy.
Please give evidence that this is a “radical black church”.
I think the substance of Wrights sermons are mostly true. More so than most sermons I suspect.
Who said Wright is divisive?
How absurd. It sounds to me that you wish to smear Obama by trying to give the impression that he is lying, with no evidence. Where is your evidence that he consults with that particular adviser on these issues? Obama has spoken out on these issues. It’s amazing you wish to ignore that.
What candidate do you support and what has been their role in the “legislative process” on this issue?
Is the fact that McCain doesn’t attend Hagee’s church; or Bush Liberty Baptist (Falwell’s church) somehow more relevant than each candidate’s actual position?
Obama doesn’t need to have Wright conflate religion and politics to get followers to support Obama; without Falwell’s misleadership, Reagan and Dubya wouldn’t have gotten anywhere.
I would also note the recent Danziger cartoon. With the Right Wing Noise Machine’s failure to tie Obama to Wright’s position, Jeff D is trying to castigate him as a “Cafeteria Congregationalist.”
Upton Sinclair is relevant in another respect: when he ran for Governor of California in the Depression, the Republicans labeled him an enemy of religion on account of Elmer Gantry,
whih was, in fact, written by that other Sinclair,…Lewis.
Can you provide a link or something to prove this statement?
1) That’s a false dichotomy. It’s both.
2) You implied that Obama thought there was something wrong with the pastor himself and that he wanted to cover that up. Not true. He believed that conservative forces would unfairly use the pastor to smear him, which is precisely what they did! And, sadly, a few posters here continue to do so.
3) It was a minor story at that point. His response was commensurate.
4) You didn’t provide any evidence, just your own speculation.
5) Wow, you’ve got your anti-Obama talking points down pat!
He refuses to answer the press’s questions on Rezko…
You need to update your talking points. He recently met with newspapers in Chicago and answered all of their questions, according to the newspapers!
6) I’ll go read the speech now….
I understand that this Afrocentric church espouses the notion that a colored Jesus was crucified by white Romans, and that blacks are the “chosen people”. Wright’s belief that HIV and drugs were set on blacks by whites, and his damning of America and Israel are very divisive IMO; as noxious as anything said by Falwell, Robertson or Hagee from the other side.
I am simply questioning the PR role in Obama’s role in the legislative process.
I do not support any candidate.
Oh wait, ha ha ha ha! You’re referring to a speech years after Clinton was already President! I thought you were talking about the “Sister Souljah” thing. Yes, of course this speech here is good. But we are talking about courage for a Presidential candidate to make a speech like that, not a man holding the most powerful office in the world.
The typical politician would “condemn, denounce” and move on. Not Barack. He wrote a brilliant speech that reflects on his own personal experience. And this speech seems to be actually affecting people. That’s the amazing part.
Please search the SF Chronicle and columnists “Matier & Ross” who reported on this craven behavior by Obama based on their conversations with Mayor Gavin Newsom and former mayor Willie Brown.
Yes, with no evidence of anything, pro or con.
Well that’s convenient. Will you be voting in November?
You, didn’t read through the link?
And, yes, I’ll be voting in the PA primary as well as the GE.
What you say here may very well be true, but I’d like some links.
The pastor did not “damn America”. Please stop with that nonsense. Have you listened to extended excerpts from those sermons?
You, didn’t read through the link?
Of course. You haven’t yet provided any evidence that he shapes Obama’s policies on telecommunications issues. But we do have Obama’s public statements, which are good.
And, yes, I’ll be voting in the PA primary as well as the GE.
Are you reviewing all the staff members of each campaign and comparing them all?
From your reaction it sounds like it will be an interesting course of study. And, yes, reviewing campaign staff does inform my opinion.
Thanks, I did read a couple of articles. I’m not convinced that of much from reading them to be honest. Lots of ineundo, not much substance though.
Here’s Rev. Wright’s Christmas 2007 day speech in order (the last video has his comments about Hillary never being called the N-word and how Barack is not a wealthy white man):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdfbWSJINhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVeK0JDPm8Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o36KBeDXJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFQAQVcn89A
The video clips we’ve been hearing on our televisions and radios of Rev. Wright’s comments come from a much larger sermon and have been taken way out of context. Shameful that the MSM has allowed it to go on for so long!
.
way late in the string here ..but the best list and debunking i’ve seen is over at the carpetbagger report .. be back in just mo with a quote or three …
Oh yes, and the videos I just posted also talks about the Romans too.
SueN and ChrisO, I would love it if you took 30 minutes out of your life to watch the videos I’ve posted above and then report back to us on why you think Rev. Wright hates America and why you refuse to listen to the words of Barack Obama.
Thank you.
You’re trivalizing and ridiculing everything Rev. Wright and Barack Obama has said and I don’t like it nor do I appreciate it!
Now go watch the videos. Feed your brain some truth and reality for once!
WIGWAM ..
8. On March 22nd, 2008 at 10:42 am, truthteller said:
I am shocked that more of the media has not started distributed the full Wright video yet. CNN and Huffington Post have already posted it. I will give you all the links to watch the full 9/11 Wright video, before FOXNEWS corruptly cut out bits of the video and pasted them with other portions to suite their purposes:
Full Wright Speech 1
Full Wright Speech 2
Meet the white man that Wright was recited “chickens are coming home to roost.” It was not Wright’s words, but a white mans.
See how FOX tried to present more false Obama media, but Chris Wallace crushed it:
Chris Wallace setting FOX straight 1
Chris Wallace setting FOX straight 2
from Carpetbagger Reports comments section ..
oops ..wigwam ..that didn’t work .. the post is #8 under the topic Did Obama’s Speech Make a Difference over at the Carpetbagger
And Hillary is undermining attacks on McCain’s cluelessness on national security issues by saying that McCain is ready on Day 1 to be Commander in Chief but Obama is not.
In fact, McCain’s only real “national security” credential is his extended stay at the Hanoi Hilton after the plane he was flying was shot down. And his record as a prisoner of war may have been aggravated by two character traits that are dangerous in a Commander in Chief – stubbornness and an explosive temper.
Could the incredibly harsh treatment McCain suffered as a POW – harsher than the treatment reported by his fellow POWs – have been his captors’ response to his being so stubborn that he refused to cooperate with anything that his captors directed him to do and to his losing that explosive temper repeatedly when he was being demeaned or insulted by his guards, his interrogators, or the warden of the prison camp?
Dubya has shown us only too clearly how dangerous it is for a president to be more stubborn than prudent. McCain’s support of the surge in Iraq and his insistence that we can stay there “for 100 years” if necessary probably reflects his deep-seated stubbornness (among other traits).
And the man who controls the orders to use strategic nuclear weapons, bunker buster nukes, or tactical nukes should not have an explosive temper.
For perspective:
No one connected with any campaign can attack McCain’s status as a “genuine war hero.” However, from the perspective of the Vietnamese civilians that he bombed in North Viet Nam, McCain’s record was criminal, not heroic. American pilots who were shot down in North Viet Nam were routinely beaten badly by peasants or other local residents who considered them war criminals. Sometimes when North Vietnamese officials could not reach the crash site, the pilots were reportedly beaten to death by enraged civilians.
McCain is not a war hero in the historic sense. We think of “war heroes” as soldiers who have exposed themselves to extraordinary personal risks in the heat of battle to aid their fellow soldiers. To the best of my knowledge, this is not what McCain did. McCain never came to the aid of fellow soldiers in the heat of battle nor did he inspire other fighters to fight on or survive by his leadership or example. What he did was to survive incredibly brutal physical beatings when he was a POW.
According to McCain, the beatings were administered because he resisted becoming an instrument of enemy propaganda. McCain’s account is that he was singled out for specially brutal treatment because he resisted more steadfastly than his fellow POWs; because he was willing to endure more physical punishment than most of the other captives. It certainly may be that McCain was more determined to refuse to participate in enemy propaganda than most of the other POWs, but could he have suffered some of the extra abuse because he was as much of an insolent a–hole toward the Vietnamese as he had sometimes been toward superiors at Annapolis?
More Upton Sinclair from his 1919 study of American journalism, _The Brass Check_:
His account of how he lost the race for Governor of CA is extremely informative as well.
If you want to read a book about Upton Sinclair that situates him as a prophet of today’s issues, take a look at Land Groves and Jails: Upton Sinclair’s California (available through Heyday books and your favorite indie bookstore (we’re about to lose ours…sob)–