Juan Williams, of Fox and NPR, doesn't think Obama closed the deal with yesterday's speech. From his Fox commentary:
Obama has vigorously disavowed Wright’s inflammatory remarks, but in Tuesday’s speech refused to disavow the pastor himself or the 20-year relationship he’s had with him. Some political observers say the Illinois senator still has some more mending to do.
“I think it goes on,” National Public Radio national correspondent Juan Williams said of the controversy.
Williams, a FOX News analyst, questioned why Obama allowed himself to remain publicly associated with Wright. He said Obama did not address the “judgment and character” issues that he’s running on.
“I think he had to take responsibility … and that’s what he didn’t do,” Williams said.
He was equally unimpressed on NPR this morning (transcription mine)
You know, that's the problematic heart of this controversy. The question is why Obama has maintained a relationship with Reverend Wright, a man who has said things like the government is pumping drugs into the black community or spreading AIDS among people of color has said that America's foreign policy is somehow equal to that of the terrorists who attacked on 9/11. The idea that his grandmother expressing concern about black men as you just said is quite different than Reverend Wrights's statements - Obama said yesterday those were divisive, hateful statements - and somehow Barack Obama tried to make them parallel in scope.
Needless to say Williams' paraphrase of Wright's statements is a bit, shall we say, heated, but I can see why he would take anger and suspicion from a preacher in the inner city who lived through Jim Crow much more seriously than an innocuous thing like hearing from the grandmother who raised you while your mother was thousands of miles away that she feared and distrusted people who look like you.
Clearly Juan Williams is much more sensitive to the nuances of divisiveness than I am. F'rinstance, I thought this was a divisive statement.
And I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia's restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it's run by blacks, primarily black patronship. It was the same, and that's really what this society's all about now here in the U.S.A. There's no difference. There's no difference. There may be a cultural entertainment -- people may gravitate toward different cultural entertainment, but you go down to Little Italy, and you're gonna have that. It has nothing to do with the color of anybody's skin...
Later, during a discussion with National Public Radio senior correspondent and Fox News contributor Juan Williams about the effect of rap on culture, O'Reilly asserted: "There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, 'M-Fer, I want more iced tea.' You know, I mean, everybody was -- it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb in the sense of people were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn't any kind of craziness at all."
Juan Williams: It’s rank dishonesty, and the troubling thing is that if I hadn’t participated in the discussion, if I was just tuning into CNN, or listening to MSNBC, and heard that, oh, Bill O'Reilly said he went to Sylvia’s restaurant in Harlem and they weren’t using M-F and all this kind of stuff, I’d say, “Oh my god. What is he thinking? Where’s that coming from? Why did he say something like that?” Not understanding that that discussion, Bill O’Reilly, I’m telling you, it’s so frustrating. They want to shut you up. They want to shut up anybody that has an honest discussion about race.
That's not completely fair. I'm much more fair and balanced than that. I think you should shut up too.
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I’ll take Obama over any republican.
I believe “Juan Williams of Fox” says enough of where he’s coming from here . . .
now we have to make sure we have enough of you to overcome the biggots that will take any white man over any black
they are legion but I do believe we will have a landslide for obama…so long as the republicans don’t do the counting, supply the machines, close the polls, threaten the democrats
Obama has vigorously disavowed Wright’s inflammatory remarks, but in Tuesday’s speech refused to disavow the pastor himself or the 20-year relationship he’s had with him. Some political observers say the Illinois senator still has some more mending to do.
—————-
yes he needs to BURN HIS ROLODEX,iphone,laptop,in effigy….so not a symbolic,word or phrase remains..mebbe biggus dicckus can give him pointers on deleting the emails/
There is nothing Obama can do to please them. They want to bring him down and have chosen Wright.
If he gives a ground breaking speech they raise the bar. With Rush supporting Hillary and getting hundred of thousands votes for her, the right wing can and will call our elections.
They do not want to run against Obama.
Go on the defensive. Just where right-wing media would love to see him.
And McCain? I guess no calls there to do the same.
actually, i don’t believe that … i think they’ll make complete hay of the wright thing
that is what became evident to me yesterday
I think you’re right.
When all else fails they will shoot him.
And when can we be free of the likes of Juan Williams. What a weak suck up. He and Alan Colmes are sell outs.
[Mod Note: it’s probably best if we refrain from speculation about future assassinations.]
Juan William: House Slave
OTOH, Dubya as presidential candidate simply blew off any and all questions about his truly nefarious past, (his cocaine use is one small sample) and the MSM accepted his non-answers with a shrug and told us what a regular-type guy he was. Juan Williams is a right wing tool.
isn’t it a stinker?
Obama DID take responsibility but Juan & friends will NEVER give him credit.
The RIGHT WING media is heating up the Hill Obi fight and trying to make a case that Hill has not lost the contest when it’s pretty clear she has.
Meanwhile W gave billions to wall street and the middle finger to home owners.
Juan Williams:
So that’s what it is about O’Reilly that makes me want to shut him up: it’s because he’s so damn honest.
that williams is both on fox and npr speaks volumes. time to turn down the volume, or, better yet, turn them both off.
thats the kind way to put it…how does he look into a mirror
Responsibility for WHAT?
So I take a political science class and sit through some idiot ranting all semester that makes me responsible?
Many times I have heard a minister say something in their sermons that I do not agree with…. The church is more than the minister…. My parents seem to go through one on a yearly basis at their little rural church….. it is the community of the church not who happens to be the minister of the day…..
Democrats have to walk on water AND it is never enough
And we all know it is ok if you are a repug….
our answer to this should be…Juan you OBVIOUSLY were not paying attention,but millions of others of your RACE,and other races were….sad for you
Is it acceptable for a white guy to call Juan Williams an Uncle Tom? Has the term gone with The Jeffersons? It defines guys like Juan Williams.
He’s entitled to his opinion.
It’s wrong, of course, but he’s entitled to it.
Must be the effects of the company he regularly keeps (on Sunday morning in particular).
But then, what do you expect from someone who was told he “needed to be hosed down” and didn’t say “boo” about it when it happened.
See the dialog re: cushy media existence from the last thread.
my friggin gawd
this is nazi germany and thomas jefferson turns in his grave and weeps
May I try this? May I try a process of elimination?
What do we know?
We know McCain loves him some war. Goody for him.
We know HRC voted for the war. We do not know for sure her position on ending the war. very ambiguous.
We know Obama says he wants to end the war. Do we know for sure? No. But I’m willing to take the bet in this case over voting for more war.
McCain says he doesn’t know much about the economy.
HRC is very smart and would get smart people on the job.
HRC has some baggage in this department? (I think, no documentation on my part.)
Obama is also very smart and would get smart people on the job.
I lean to Obama every time. Maybe I will get burned. But I know I will with the alternative.
I left you a response at the end of the last thread.
they are seriously playing hardball
Yeah. Juan “I am paid to not like this speech” Williams.
i worked in the market for 8 years,i have seriously bad memories of the end,BHO ,is the first person running besides JE ,that gives me a modicum of hope
hansomely….sad,sad,sicko…..phants
Well, yes there is.
I last ate there about 5 or 6 years ago. I’m a white, blond middle-aged woman. I was meeting a white, blond middle-aged man. I walked thru the front door at the appointed hour, had not even begun to look for my companion when the maitresse d’ said: “He’s at the bar.”
handsomely….mebbe
It’s been sad to see Cokie Roberts, then Mara Liasson and Juan Williams move from NPR to the dark sides. Not that Cokie and Juan showed enough critical thinking skills to move very far outside the prevailing noise machine that’s current-day MSM; but I had greater hopes for Mara.
Jeez, I used to freak when China and Russia would arrest journalists for being “spies”…now it’s us. This is disturbing.
i blame SEVERE cocktail weenie addiction
I don’t know why you’re surprised. U.S. has been doing it all long. Do you remember when a U.S. tank took out al Jazeera during Shock ‘n Awe?
williams shows the ravages of spending so much time on fox! I heard him this morning and that is exactly what I came away with after he was finished.
This speech was so brilliant that it hurts to listen to all the fools who don’t see what the O man did yesterday.
What williams had to opportunity to do was to display some examples that supported the O mans position that the white community shares equally the feelings of fear of what is percieved to be threats to their well being by those that aren’t the “same”! How bloody sad he sounded this AM.
it FINALLY stopped raining….2 weeks
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner!
People who didn’t get a “separation from Wright” weren’t listening, and will never be satisfied no matter what he says.
I think it speaks volumes about his character that he didn’t throw him under the bus, which would’ve been the easy thing to do.
It’s refreshing to have a candidate that won’t do anything to win, unlike Crazy McBush and Sen. Clinton.
Well, I guess I’m surprised because it’s US arresting US journalists. And it’s AP, FGS! I thought they were on the Cheney payroll.
If Juan Williams did not exist, FOX News would have to invent him.
self loathing methinks
you can’t choose your political science prof, but you can choose a spiritual advisor …
what utter good judgement it shows..really
I was for Edwards too, cause I thought he got it. Now it doesn’t matter to me because I have no more choices to make.
My face hurts again from laughing so hard at that hose down clip.
Juan’s expression is priceless.
I wouldn’t have blamed him if he hit Brit in the mouth instead of sitting there like a dumbass.
Must be a big paycheck to take that kind of humiliation.
i think there are 100s mebbe thousands,willing to take his place…the money is just too big
Actually, until this Wright controversy, Juan Williams has been reasonably supportive of Obama.
Rather that attacking Williams, why not consider what it is he is trying to say? A lot of people agree with him.
I do not agree with his statement, but I think his opinion is worth considering. Moreover, I want to go on record as saying that I think referring to him as a “house slave” is in very poor taste.
Perhaps this has been discussed, but I’m really tired of HRC using the Rovian tactic of taking a strength and making it a weakness…I like the speeches. After eight years of unmitigated bull, it’s music to my ears. And it doesn’t hurt that Obama’s kind of smart.
Not only does he speak beautifully, the speeches demonstrate his understanding of the issues, not just a kneejerk recital of what he thinks you want to hear.
I wasn’t a Obama backer before, but I am now!
i think BHO gets it,because he has to,this country,this planet will die ugly if somebody doesnt stop the madness,he has 2 kids he adores and he is GAME… very game imo
This is a two-year old story and the photographer, Bilal Hussein, is a friggin’ hajji. He’s clearly working for the enemy.
The contrast of OReilly mentioned in the post is not nearly as important as the contrast with Hagee and Parsley. They too have condemned the US and said it somehow deserved or played a causal role terrorist attacks, but simply had different rationales for the US’ wrongdoing. I strenuously disagree with both Wright and Hagee and Parsley. But Wright’s argument is far more plausible, and can even be argued over on rational grounds.
Furthermore, Hagee and Parsley and their fello quasi-Christian heretics, have very certain foreign and national security policies the advocate, indeed insist, that the US adopt. These policies all tend to lead to heightening tensions, especially in the Middle East, with hopes of igniting a global, world ending war. McCain sought Hagee and Parsley, and is distancing himself far less from them than Obama is from Wright. McCain has distanced himself from the racially and religious bigotry. Will he denounce their bloodthirsty and violent vision of US foreign policy? Those views have very real implications for how McCain will do his job and commander in chief. So, press this issue until McCain is forced to address it.
Time for full on total attack on this issue. Run straight ahead and push it every day until media forced to discuss it. When the wingnut public wigout and mindless yelling and frothing and hatemongering festival occurs, so much the better.
Thanks E. I was shooting my mouth off fact-free. I should know better! *g*
Look: Make no mistake about this. I have never had any doubts that Juan Williams is a complete moron–95 cent of the time…
I have a friend who’s a fairly major player at NPR. He referred to Juan Williams as “pretty much a complete turd,” and said that his view is widely shared.
I asked him why they kept the Juanster on, and he just shrugged and looked really tired and cynical.
he made no examples how anybody could 100 % disavow his friend without totally throwing him away….he chose to save the good and decent parts of his friend…and i cant say ididnt agree with the pastor about American Aggression and killing dropping not just 1 but 2 atomic bombs on STARVING civilians mostly woman and children
On the substance of Jaun Williams’s comments, there’s an alternative view which I picked up on WM
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c.....013355.php
Does America really need all these pundits to tell us what we should be thinking? The pundits are nothing more than members of a priviledged elite who have vested interests to protect.
I’ve heard that kind of language for several years now. “Oh,you have BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome).”
So, like a rabid dog, someone with BDS needs to be hosed down.
This is the America I’ve known for the last 7 years. I do not care who gets elected as long as it’s a Democrat.
ding ding ding!
Good point wesgpc
This would be good. The only one with the balls (no sexist intent) to do it is Obama.
And yet the journalists continue to kiss up to these thugs. I guess it’s battered wife syndrome or something.
I base my comments on what I’ve heard him say. Are you asking for a discussion of the content of what he has said?
How about this:
OK. I’ve considered that statement, and I don’t know where I could begin to engage a man with that perception in any meaningful dialog.
Only the journalists who kiss up are allowed to remain out of jail.
Okay…the racist overtones of a white man saying it to a black man was the offensive part to me. But since Juan didn’t take offense I was compelled to laugh at his similarities with a spineless jellyfish.
It might not be this particular journalist, it might be that AP was balking at carrying out something evil on behalf of the administration.
They did worse than that to Mazen Dana
we have made them highly paid CELEBRITIES what they celebrate i have no idea
I heard a commentator (a minister IIRC) on CNN say that to “disown” someone, such as family or a pastor, is inherently un-Christian, so Obama made the proper response.
Of course, these fools don’t see the irony in what they ask.
bwahaha…Joe Madison telling Pat Robertson he’s been black longer than he has…
I hear obama say that since he didn’t support the war from the beginning, he has superior judgement. And yet, I wonder about the judgement of a person that let’s one of his fundraisers buy a parcel of land next to the Obama home and then pays an extremely low payment to extend his side yard for it. Especially since this fundraiser is up for racketeering charges.
I also wonder about the judgement of a man that can sit and listen for 20 years to a oastor speaking of white racism, accusing the government of selling drugs to blacks in order to jail them, that blacks should sing not “God Bless America”, but “God damn America” AND saying said of the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks that “America’s chickens are coming home to roost.” I’d think if you were going to run for public office, that some folks would consider listening to stuff like that for 20 years might make a few folks suspicious of your judgement.
No, we do not need these professional pundits, who are really craven professional clowns who are used to keep viewers tuned in for the next commercial, nothing more. They fold in a very unprincipled way whenever pressure is applied. The latest example is their folding to pressure from HRC on how to cover Obama and superdelegate issues. I am not saying whether the HRC pressue was justified or not. But fact is, that HRC camp exerted pressure, and a few days later, AP and a few broadcast clowns started using the nomenclature demanded. So, beat them and attack them and charge them with a double standard regarding McCain. It has the advantage of being 100% true. So go after them hard and see what happens.
but that is the really odd thing about it,he didnt give a crpola
Yep. Another one. It’s one of the unwritten stories in the war how the U.S. has systematically bombed, murdered, or jailed every journalist they could get their hands on whose reporting is not hagiography.
For the record, I disavow Juan Williams’ sentiments!
Over 350,000 email messages have been sent by MoveOn members telling their friends about Obama’s awesome speech yesterday…help reach 400,000. Go here:
http://pol.moveon.org/obamaspeech/
assuming facts not put into evidence …beep
Believe me, I try.
I think Sen. Obama’s done the right thing. To ask him to disavow him personally is ridiculous, and over the top.
This man married him, and baptized his children.
So, a 20 year relationship should be tossed out the window to appease those who probably won’t vote for him anyway? No, he shouldn’t.
And, if he did, it would be pandering of the highest order.
What this shows is we like being lied to. We like being told what we like to hear.
Yesterday, Sen. Obama treated us like adults. Not D’s or R’s or I’s, but thinking, feeling adults.
I hope we’re ready for it as a country.
I know I am.
excuse me? it’s a matter of real estate records and then the video tapes of said pastor… if i sat in some church for twenty years listening to some old white guy go on like that about black folks I think you all would accuse me of enabling the KKK… and YOU’d be right
nobody but Obama knows what he heard,and when he heard it
Now now, the KKK is not a fair comparison, although you may not know it.
I’m glad you brought that up. Isn’t the story that he was going to expose mass graves of “illegal aliens” that were over there fighting for the US in and a big cover-up or something like that?
and i agrree with some of what Dr.Wright said,and im no anarchist
Please point me to the source for this quote — I must have missed it. I do know that this is what Malcolm X said after President Kennedy’s assassination. Did Wright lift that comment from Malcolm X? Or, as I suspect is more likely, did the Republican/MSM noise machine inject this poison into the public discourse?
okay, well, let me say, Pat Robertson’s CBS… if you’re a white christian and you sat and listened to him or Farwell… wouldn’t you get up and move to another church?
That’s not a correct analogy because there is no black equivalent of the KKK. And on an even deeper level there is no symmetry between the races in American society: The blacks are the ones who have been oppressed from the very beginning.
Wow, interesting hardball. Joe Madison snarkily offering dance lessons to the “white men”. Calling Pat Buchanan closeminded! Calling out hypocrisy!
Cats and dogs sleeping together. OK j/k about that part.
http://www.economist.com/world.....nwlptwfree
No, then I would be a Repub. And in fine standing I might add.
and wasnt a book called Blowback written onthis VERY subject
very well said
so what’s the difference between calling Pat Robertson a ‘old uncle I don’t always agree with’ and Jeremiah Wright the same thing?
NY Repu’ublist Peter King said today that it was every Repu’ublist’s duty to beat Sheik bin BaraBlackHusseinOsamaMadrassaBama over the head with reverend Wright every day from now ’til the Election.
how America creates BLOWBACK from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(intelligence)
Mr. Wright considers Louis Farrakhan and Muammar Qaddafi worthy of admiration and award. How does this differ from Mr. Robertson’s new jerk support of the worst Israel has to offer?
Yeah, I heard that and immediately thought it is our duty to hang the war, economy, Katrina, pardons, etc etc etc around McCain and the GOP every chance we get.
i’d believe that
Please see my 66 above. I feel this was handled correctly.
Not to mention Pastor John Hagee.
His brother alleged this
Doesn’t mean it’s true or not. He may have misunderstood what he heard.
Did you go to the link and read it? It’s a British magazine. I prefer to get my news out of this country most of the time. I find it a bit more objective.
So I see. History repeats itself, then. So where does that leave us? If we’re doing guilt-by-association (and choosing to disbelieve Obama’s clear delineation of differences), do we take everyone down?
Let’s ask John McCain-Hagee to cast the first stone?
See what I mean?
exactly, and we should play that vile man’s words every chance We get also
Julia,
This is so sporking frustrating. I’ve been interviewing people locally about whether or not comments made last Friday by a rightwing AM radio talk host and weekly news columnist are divisive, or hate speech:
I’ve talked to the radio manager and the newspaper editor. Both deny it is hate speech or divisive, and defend the asshole’s right to say anything he wants, even if untrue and provocative to an extreme degree.
Needless to say, the guy was talking about Obama, when he brought this up…
In addition to the other creepy things Cheney says in the Radatz interview, he says this…very interesting choice of words…:
”Q What sacrifice have most Americans made?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think they’ve been asked to support the effort and the enterprise.”
Support the Enterprise…hmmm….business venture???
McCain doesn’t have to cast any stones and he won’t … it’ll be a swift boat set up
oh but he is a XTIAN a very,very bad XTIAN!!!!/
Funny thing about it: most no longer do. Cheney’s tune is the only thing that hasn’t changed. I think it’s because he’s a bastard.
Who is the enemy of the US?
The thought that you have to agree with everything your priest says and follow it is absurd. I do think its a political issue that agents are not going to leave alone and that compounds a problem. The length of time and the volumes of stuff said means we are going to get one a week as well.
For me I do not much care, so the guy rails every now and them. The way Obama is being attacked to me is going to convince me to send him money. I hope he raises 60 million this month or some silly number.
The double standard on NPR and other shows that do not mention McCain hugging and loving endoresement (in a flip-flop from 2000) from the bigots that think Katrina and 9-11 were deserved for American depravity are even worse (seeing has how they have not been opressed, rather they want to do some opressing) with the exception that could be reported that no McCain has not been down with them for 20 years (but again with the note that he flip-flopped to show his love just like when he kissed Bush).
the man is so verrrry warped,and depraved
Back to work for me . . . thanks all for the discussions.
Hey folks. Sorry I’m late. Still at work.
Going back to read now.
I wish they would fire Scarborough and Buchanan. I just can’t stand the underhanded racism day in and day out and the constant push for McBush.
YMMV, but I think this is bad news. This is the first time that I’ve seen one of the Dem candidates lose to McCain in a head-to-head matchup. (Where is John Edwards when we need him; he always whomped the Republican in these polls.) Why is McCain gathering strength nationally? Is Hillary toast?
by ,bye
I read that… I’m not a christo-fascist so I don’t know what the morality is about throwing pastors under the bus, but to me, any one that uses that kind of hate speech is not some one I would listen to for ONE second, let alone let him preside over any kind of ceremony that I’d consider central to my life. I consider it a very poor show of judgement on any one’s part. I respected McCain when he said that Farwell and Robertson were agents of intolerance and I think he’s a complete whore now for kissing up to them. He should have kept them under the bus where they belonged
Well said, friend … soon to be foe … (looks like Raptors V Cavs in 1st round) *g*
MSGOP hates Obama….end of story
Personally, and a type of middle age white guy who should be the target audience for the fear campaign against Wright -I did not find anything he said particulary hateful or extreme. He was pissed off about HRC and said some hot headed and stupid things, but how bad was it compared to Hagee and Parsley say every day? Not very bad at all. Didn’t advocate for mass extremination of everyone outside his cult, for instance. ‘course, I have spent time in different churches and have heard the many odd things one hears from pastors and whatnot.
I think the Wright thing is about 90% PR social engineering political attack BS.
Wright also believes that 9-11 was the result of God’s wrath for america’s racism … what makes this so different? I don’t see the Difference at ALL.
They hate Democrats in general. Except for Keith.
ditto…this country has provoked the terrarists ,byoverthrowing governments…cia said so
Oh, I understood that, wasn’t mad at you for laughing!
McCain appears further ahead in polls right now than he should be, because he is out of the public eye. He is not being debate-tested yet. He will get whooped in the debates…we have a very long way to go.
i wonder why they are so determined to destroy him?
Well, my comment was a snark. But to answer your Q seriously, accroding to W et al, just about everyone’s an enemy of the U.S., including at one point “Old Europe.” Therefore it’s not only possible, but also necessary, to bomb, shoot, or jail everyone they can get their hands on. “To keep us safe.” Including the terrorists here at home.
This from the current issue of The Economist –it’s a brit magazine:
‘The Obama campaign has been topsy-turvied by revelations about the eccentric views of his pastor, Jeremiah Wright. Mr Wright has been shown on video urging his congregation to sing “God damn America” rather than the usual version, and referring to America as “the US of KKKA”. This was not a momentary aberration but part of a pattern of incendiary rhetoric.
Mr Wright believes that September 11th 2001 was “chickens coming home to roost”. He accuses the American government of manifold evils, from manufacturing the AIDS virus in order to kill blacks and grinding the faces of the world’s poor (“America is still the number-one killer in the world”). Mr Wright is an admirer of both Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, and Muammar Qaddafi, the president of Libya.’
McVain is trully mentally challenged…he keeps repeating BS 24/7
the economist is hevily right leaning pal
To preserve Hillary’s rightful
coronationnomination.“They” is GE. Corporations run this country.
Look we’ve had two terms of Bush, do not underestimate the US voters ability to get sidetracked onto some odd thing … Gore creamed him in the debates and came off lookiing elitist. McCain’s got the POW/war hero thing going for him… I wouldn’t underestimate him, even if he appears to be senile. Remember, Reagan … he was REALLY gone by his second term and they worship him still!
Mr Wright believes that September 11th 2001 was “chickens coming home to roost”. He accuses the American government of manifold evils, from manufacturing the AIDS virus in order to kill blacks and grinding the faces of the world’s poor (“America is still the number-one killer in the world”). Mr Wright is an admirer of both Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, and Muammar Qaddafi, the president of Libya.’
–
this happens to be correct…read CONFESSIONS of an ECONOMIC Hitman…eyeopener
Look, America is a great place but has done some horrific things inside and outside it’s borders.
And occasionally, people like Dr. Wright call this country out on it’s wrongdoing and hypocrisy.
200,000 people are dead in Iraq, simply because we declared war on a sovereign nation that had done nothing to us.
And yet, I should look the other way, wrap myself in a flag and offer “God Bless America” at the top of my lungs or I’m not patriotic.
No, the true patriots are the ones that focus on these horrors and injustices done in our name and try (in some small way for most of us) to stop it.
they have no dogs in this hunt
OK I missed the snark.
Whoever you are, get a grip. I am Christian, and not a “Christo-fascist”.
Please don’t respond to this.
Do you ever ask why “The Greatest Nation in the World” (a statement which makes Canadians & Europeans snicker) is the most hated nation in the world and why there is more anti- American bias than ever ?
Do you think it is people like Rev. Wright who’ve fomented this ?
Most of British media are like supermarket tabloids over here …
I think he’ll get creamed in the debates, and I think he might still win the election.
You must have been watching a different MSRNC than I have– they all hate Hillary, even Keith. Remember when Shuster said the Clintons were pimping out their daughter?
Britts are well payed by Carlyle grp
that wasn’t aimed at you … i have no idea what religion you are
I will never have a “pastor problem, not having a pastor. I have no need of some egomanaical blowhard railing a bunch of hyperbolic shit at me every week.
exactly my point
and Margret Thatcher and her lovely son that tried to overthrow a very OIL rich country in Africa,forgot which
She’s earned her antipathy in my eyes.
I hear you Dakinikat. I hear what you are saying. you don’t like what Wright had to say. I get it.
One of our priests regularly rails on and on and in graphic detail against abortion. I am undecided on this tricky issue, so I default to pro-choice because I’m not going to tell another woman what to do when it’s not my business.
I really disagree with this priest and his delivery. But I am a member of that particular community. There’s more going on than his stuff. We have had other “colorful” characters in our church as well. We don’t like everybody’s ideas or comments. But we belong to the same community. BTW, our priests are not shy about telling us how to vote on certain issues or what they think about the headlines. Sometime we agree and sometimes we don’t.
No one is without sin. It’s the ones who claim they are and are here to fix everyone else who drive me bananas.
no, i don’t have to ask …even as a kid when i went to Europe because of Nixon I figured that out early … but hateful words or hateful words… does it source make that big of difference?
Then you will never be elected president.
Shame on you. Do you really think I’d use the phrase “friggin’ hajji” in all seriousness? I thought that was a dead giveaway that I was sock puppeting Rummy.
Isn’t Maclean’s a supermarket tabloid…? ;-)
Thatcher fined over ’coup plot’
Sir Mark can now leave South Africa
Sir Mark Thatcher has left South Africa after pleading guilty over his involvement in an alleged coup plot in Equatorial Guinea.
The son of former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was fined the equivalent of US$500,000 (£265,000) and given a four-year suspended jail term.
Sir Mark, who denies any knowledge of the plot, agreed a plea bargain and will now co-operate with investigators.
the BEEB
Dude, make up your mind! First you said MSRNC want to coronate her, then you blame her for their antipathy! You can’t have it both ways.
And the nation is lucky for that fact. LOL!
well, i handle it differently then you do, I walked a long time ago, and I’d walk today on ANY of that …I don’t understand NOT walking out on that … which is why I didn’t find this obama speech to be much but hand waving …i would not sit and listen to hate speech for a minute, let alone 20 years…
After 2000 and 2004 and after seeing what has happened to this country since 2000, I am very leery of an acceptable outcome, but I do have a ray of hope that I try to hold onto. We have power in numbers now, and the citizens are a lot more “awake” than back then….we shall see and keep fighting on..
Thanks. Now if you could only keep Mr. Bosh out another month…
true dat
Yes, but do you ever intend to run for elected office (or have you already; I’ve no idea). If running for office is in your sights, I’d guess you’d think long & hard about your constituency and how they’d react to your priest’s sermons.
I was wondering what you were talking about too. You need to use a “/s” to denote snark. Your humor is a little too subtle for some of us I guess!
he didnt,by his words…i believe him
That’s true only if you are honest about it. Bush has shown that you just have to pretend to be a Christian. Remember, it’s all about money and power, not honesty.
Oh god, I took you seriously too!
Yeah, just look like you are praying really really hard for peace.
he didnt,and some was just some truth to power
Good point.
Bye everyone– I have to go buy a birthday present for MiniRieszette. She’s turning 20 on Friday!
I don’t agree with all that. But there are a lot of pastors, rabbis and priests saying bizarre things. I have heard each type say the most bizarre things. I do not find it disturbing. Most religous dogma and belief requires a good preacherman to say outrages and strange things from time to tim.
‘grind the faces of the poor’ is standard language from Old Testament prophets (Jermiah). If he had been quoting Micah he would have talked about the rich in the US chopping up the pooor, cooking them in pots and stripping and eating their flesh and sucking their bones. That would make for a much cooler, slasher-flick style outrage festival on the TV.
No one goes around to different churches to hear the thigns these preacher types say, except me?
I can’t have it both ways?
Maybe I’m a fucking Repu’ublist after all.
Looko, it’s the Clinton camp themselves that think she deserves coronation. Abetted by a sizable chunk of the MSM, who will then turn the long knives on her with gusto. They don’t give a shit about the good of this country, they just want to foment more division and turmoil they can then breathlessly “report” on.
bye,and im off to dinner…vigil tonight!
good point
Yes! Close your eyes real tight and make sure you don’t laugh.
you can speak truth to power without being angry and hateful
The only giveaway for me was the “hajji” term - that surprised me but it looked like a serious statement… …save forever by the google.
And i will hold up MLK in that light
Hmmm. good point. I’ll mull it over. I want to debate with you but am coming up empty right now. *g*
i had to think on it first too …
Once the camera flashes, say “Amen!”
i used to but, I gave up religion for my mental health
yeah ,that ended up real good for African Americans…pulease,walk a day in their shoes
I guess I’ve been listening to too much Winter Soldiers on democracynow, and assumed everyone here knew that the U.S. military routinely refers to Iraqis as hajjis (an Islamic term of respect for someone who has made the Haj), just as they derisively referred to VNese as gooks.* I would never use such inflamatory derogatory language, but I’ll include the snark alert next time just to make sure.
*Including McCain http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml
We’ve all been watching little boots doing this stuff for years.
Better to sit
Geez, SanderO, I’m glad you called me out. I had no idea how everybody interpreted my comment. Whew! Good to have a chance to clear it up.
Greg Mitchell will be on shortly with Rachel on AA… Talking about the Iraq anniversary…!
i live in the 9th ward of new orleans, i teach at a university that has the largest black population of students in the state of Louisiana, my so of 8 years is black … come back with something serious to say
Um, at the risk of parsing words (I apologize in advance) what is “hate” speech and what is “anger” speech? I’m asking rhetorically. I mean, if I were black (I’m not) and oppressed, I think I’d be pissed off…heck, I’m pissed at what Bush has done to our country in my lifetime and that’s nothing compared to what other people have had to endure.
‘Hateful’ may not be necessary, but ‘Angry’ is often unavoidable.
Don’t pick a fight with the Scots … *g*
I can’t argue with that … I do that too
The “US Military” doesn’t refer to anybody as anything. Troops who are in a position of having to justify killing people will always have a tendency to dehumanize those people.
anger is not justifiable, it’s a poison … you can know what is right and just and truthful and speak it with passion and not have as its root a poison ….
Heh, Ya wanna see my family’s tartan pattern…? *g*
You can, but not if you’re really pissed off. Sometimes venting in church is preferable to other methods of expressing anger?
He returns tonight … don’t know if he should have taken more time off to heal …
You find MSM more object that other country’s news?
Why?????
heck, my neighbors got left to drown on the roof, i know what angry faces look like …but anger is not an answer any more than hate is … I refer you to my comments in 188
I know.
Also, in regard to the little spat above. I had a buddy who was a Marine officer in the first Gulf War and he was accused of racism by one of his marines/ Turned out he was married to an African-American woman and they had 5 kids. Sort of blew the argument. . .
The Winter soldier testimony indicates that the use of the word hajji is pretty routine. Including all up the chain of command. That’s all I;m going on. And yes, it is completely in the context of dehumanizing a person who you must murder, again according to the testimony.
i’m not sure objective is the right word, but it’s not coming from the MSM echo chamber … there seems to be an echo chamber here … one of them starts on something and they all go off like a bunch of sheep … other countries will pick it up eventually but it doesn’t come out of that echo chamber, does that make sense at all?
my children are multi racial
sorry, my religion is kindness, not anger
I got that, I do read what you write kiddo.
Arrr ya a highlander orrr a flatlanderrr ? *g*
That was my point.
yup, but having multi racial children gives one some direct perspective because it’s some what a reflection of yourself as well as them …
(spew) afternoon pups
was at our local
celebrationdemonstrationofagainst 5 years of illegal war.So sayeth Juan Williams, who has his pulse on what segment of society???? The man has lost so much credibility over the past 10 years, sad really
Please watch “American Drug War” on Showtime for more info on this.
It has long been held that the cia pumped coke into the black community.
why are so many black men in jail for doing and selling the same drugs that white men sell but for much much longer sentences?
or go here for more info:
http://www.themilitant.com/1996/6035/6035_17.html
How in the world have you taken what I have said to think you need to explain this to me. I get it, ok?
anger and kindness are not mutually exclusive. Anger can be a productive thing if it is not expressed in violence.
Sorry but living, teaching among blacks and being married to one doesn’t translate to one walking a day in their shoes. My husband works around women all day everyday, and has been lioving with me forever (so it seems –*g*) but that doesn’t mean that he knows what is is like to walk a day in my shoes.
Thanks Mary for saying this …
Hiya Wobblybits, how did it go ?
That gives you more empathy and certainly you feel their pain because they are your children but you haven’t been the one to suffer it, so it is just that, empathy
I told Mr wobbs to keep his phone on in case bail money was needed *g* I loved it, we were an obnoxious bunch (i wore a grim reaper costume) We recieved a lot of vocal support from onlookers. The po-po (police) were on their best behavior *g*
Give me a break, this is totally uneccesary.
She made the comment and I disagree that you can know a group or share their pain by living among them. You don’t like it, move on
after attacking Obamas motives,kinda wierd just sayin
I don’t like it one goddamn bit.
after attacking Obamas motives ,kindaweird imo
Sounds like a personal problem especially since I was arguing a point she was making, it wasn’t a personal attack so chill out
she wasalso attacking Obamas motives…its curious imo
You give an awful lot of orders don’t you?
ok my comments are not posting
sorry for double post…ad big hullo to Julia….missed you
Nope, I was arguing a point that dakine made, You injected your opinion in and I responded as it was not a personal attack.
im very surprised that a teacher with multi racial children would be so suspect ofObama a multi racial man
im baking shortbread for strawberries,mebbe should have made a strawbeery DAQ”g”
Gee, I wish I had been here earlier. It would have been the perfect time to tell you my story about a black restaurant, but here goes even though I’m late to the thread.
I’ve mentioned that I was born and raised in Gary IN for most of my life. I once worked for Indiana University Northwest and my department, while culturally diverse, was primarily black (I am a white woman, which was a minority in this particular time and place.) At this time, I had no car and so I ate lunch at my desk a lot, which I usually didn’t mind. But from time to time we all just get an urge to get out of the office for lunch. One day when I was in one of those moods, I happened to overhear two of my black coworkers, with whom I’d worked alongside for about three years and we had a good cordial relationship, discussing their plan to go to lunch at a certain restaurant.
As I said, Gary was my home town. I went to school there. I went to church there. All my ethnic upbringing was there. The restaurant my coworkers were going to was just down the street from my school/church where I sang in the choir. I used to walk four blocks from the bus stop to church many evenings to sing in the choir. But when I asked my coworkers if I could tag along for lunch, I caught a look between them that made me a bit uncomfortable, like I had committed a faux pas. So I apologized for inviting myself along and explained that I was just feeling antzy to get out and I had no where to go, but I didn’t mean to be pushy. They then said it was alright, that they were going to this restaurant, and if I didn’t mind going there, they would be happy for me to tag along.
When we got out of the car, I was surprised by there reactions, but I finally understood what the problem was. My two coworkers flanked me, and looked around protectively. I got the feeling that if anyone wanted to make something of my white face being there they were prepared to defend me no matter what. I had totally misunderstood because I saw the area as my town. I did not consider it a matter of my being in the wrong part of town or that it could be dangerous to my wellbeing, but apparently my coworkers did. I continue to think that the reason I never got into any trouble in Gary was that I did not exhibit fear or loathing, and I did not expect to have any trouble no matter where I went in my home town.
I hadn’t even paid attention to that, so much as the argument that one understands the pain of another group because of their connection to that group. It is unfair to the group that is experiencing the abuse, unfairness, etc. to say that you know their plight, you don’t. You empathize because it is horrible but no one knows the pain of being called a n***** (if your black) better than a black person.
FWIW, I’m dakine and I did not have a dog in this hunt.
I agree with you 100% … walking a mile in their shoes is not even the same as living in their shoes …
http://www.blackagendareport.c.....;task=view
An interesting perspective from the black agenda report
That was dakinikat, dakine01 is someone else …
i didn’t say it gave me direct perspective, I said it gave me some persepctive
It was a reply to dakinekat that I made, wasn’t it? i just shortened her name to dakine in responding to raven, Sorry for the confusion
follow my link to black agenda …
http://www.blackagendareport.c.....;task=view
just call me kat, that will simplify it ..
understood
and just exactly what is your reality day after day?
I grew up with lots of black friends and members of my family are black. My 20+ years of yoga/meditation and being around them a lot made me think that I understood their perspective but something Michael Eric Dyson said made me realize that I didn’t understand the crux of it …
Dakini is a tibetan deity … it’s a flying skydancing female of wisdom ..
i live in the ninth ward of new orleans …what exactly do you think my reality is?
one perspective but there are others. i worry that when people tend to think of women and minorities as monoliths and we’re not. No one opinion, even one penned under the banner of the political voice of that group is going to represent one opinion (their own opinion) that no more voices the black thought than Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson
Michael was on Bill Maher after 9/11. Bill mentioned that now, brown people are being looked at suspiciously when they enter a store or restaurant or prepare to board an airplane …
Michael said, “Now they know how Black people feel!”
That was a moment I’ll always remember …
i work for, around and with black people, they are my neighbors, my mayor, my city councilman, my state senator, my representative, my congressman … they make decisions every day that effect my life, they are my students, my lovers, and i am a minority here. i swim in the black reality and in the black experience. i am not ’safely’ tucked away in the suburbs. I live discussions about racism every day because it is survival for me, just like learning about white culture is survivial for most black people. Living in this environment is bit more intense of a learning experience then mere empathy from afar. I also know ‘passing’ behavior. I’ve earned some trust in my day and I am privvy to things because I do have a certain level of credibility. However, having been born white and into priviledge there are something I cannot experience directly. But to insult me as being insensitive because I don’t agree with your choice of president is a shallow and hollow act.
Cool name.
I hope you understand that this was not at all a personal attack against you so much as what you were stating (your argument).
i was never arguing from the case of my candidate so let’s discard that point.
You live in a predominantly back city, work around blacks, etc. but you aren’t black, you haven’t been called a n*****, you don’t have the same history that they have. i never said that you didn’t have insight as to what the black people in NO were feeling or thinking, my issue was when you extrapolated that to the larger black community as a whole
So Wobbly, what’s for dinner tonight ? *g*
I’m making Shepherd’s Pie with mashed potatoes on top of Ground Soya …
okay, it’s not coming off that way, but i’ll chill out
i have been called the n word … actually, and the n world lover …
This has never been about a candidate for me, i said what my area of contention was. Again, i don’t deny that you have learned much from the community and that you have shared the pains of the community but at the end of the day, you don’t know what it’s like to be them, to live their life no more than a black or latino knows what it is like to live a day in a white person’s shoes (complete with the privedge that comes with it)
some times what black people say to white people isn’t what you’d call speaking truth …
okay if you believe that that equates to blacks being called that, i can only say that I fail to see the comparison and move on but thanks for the discussion
well, let’s not debate the degrees then … i concede that I can’t know it 100%, but i’ve learned a lot of things from some very good teachers, and the one thing I am is a good student
well, no, I NEVER use that word …that in itself shows I can’t know completely
i don’t take that way from you at all as it is always a good thing when we can recieve the type of education that you are recieving at this time. It has a habit of making us aware or more aware of our fellow human beings on this earth.
once again, thanks for the discussion. i appreciate that you were willing to hash it out with me
The one differance between your conflict and Obama’s is that he went out of his way to align himself with Wright. He joined this church BECAUSE of Wright, not in spite of. That puts Obama’s judgement problem in a problematic light.
Can you please publish some real news today, like Obama’s second brilliant speech on Iraq. It’s a must read! http://my.barackobama.com/page.....sen/gGBFrl
This whole episode is extraordinarily sad. The Republicans are framing Obama as an scary black man–as we all knew they would–and it’s working. America may deserve John McCain.
Isn’t it time that we progressives who have suffered through endless plege drives and shelled out hard earned money to support NPR ask for an accounting? Why is it acceptable to have Fox News hacks like Juan Williams and Maura Liasson bring their ”fair and balanced” talking points to the airwaves we help support? While the wingnuts may well deserve to have their warped perspectives represented, having these hacks with their spout their Fixed Noise line is not appropriate. Williams is an embarrasment and doesn’t deserve this or any or soapbox. NPR: if you want my $$ to support your efforts then clean your house! Faux News contributors are not viable, valid reporters or commentators.
isn’t Wright himself speaking in Texas soon?
this will never go away, and the GOP will ensure it doesn’t.