Many of you have asked in the threads how a particular person gets put on a terrorist watch list. I didn't know the answer, at least not with any specificity. Today I got my hands on an audit report issued by the DOJ-IG entitled Audit of the U.S. Department of Justice Terrorist Watchlist Nomination Process.
I finally have answer for you (yay), but I don't think you're going to like it (boo).
First some background basics:
There are two basic categories of terrorists that are used in this process, domestic terrorists and international terrorists. There are two basic kinds of "subjects" (that's people in layman's terms), investigative subjects and non-investigative subjects.
Subjects of any stripe are "nominated" to be on the watchlist. Like it was some kind of honor. There are three major permutations of this nomination process. I'm going to list them in ascending order of how likely they are to make our blood boil. Remember, don't yell at me, I didn't make these, ahem, rules up.
1) Nominations of Investigative Subjects, International Terrorism.
In general, individuals who are subjects of ongoing FBI counterterrorism investigations are nominated to TSC [the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center] for inclusion on the watchlist, including persons who are being preliminarily investigated to determine if they have links to terrorism. FBI policy requires the responsible case agent to forward a complete nomination package to the Terrorist Review and Examination Unit (TREX) in FBI headquarters. This package should include an initial case opening electronic communication, a copy of a notice of initiation that is directed at DOJ headquarters, and an FBI watchlist nomination form [form FD-930].
For international terrorist nominations, TREX reviews and approves the nomination and forwards it to the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC) which is a component of the Office of the Director for National Intelligence (ODNI). NCTC reviews and approves it and sends it on to the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center (TSC).
2) Nominations of Investigative Subjects, Domestic Terrorism
The process is almost identical to the above, except that they skip the review by ODNI because there is no international information for them to review. The nomination goes directly from TREX to the TSC.
For nominations involving categories 1 and 2, the DOJ IG found that the nomination packages produced by the case agents were not usually being reviewed for completeness or accuracy by their bosses. Understand in the FBI there are written procedures for everything and almost everything an agent does gets reviewed by at least one (and often lots more than one) layer of bosses. So, the idea that these are going directly from a case agent (the lowest agent on the totem poll) directly to TREX without review, naturally provoked negative comment from the IG.
Because of this lack of basic oversight, the IG found that sometimes nominating packages were not even sent by the case agent until up to 4 months AFTER the case was opened. Other packages were so incomplete that TREX could not approve and pass them on in a timely manner. Bad guys walking around NOT ON THE WATCHLIST for months during the investigation. Bad guys slipping through the cracks.
Worse, under the provisions of Homeland Security Presidential Directive-6 (HSPD-6), each nominating agency involved (in addition to FBI, DEA, ATF a whole host of other alphabet soup agencies could be nominating agencies but they have to go through the FBI) is supposed to update the list on an ongoing basis, either by adding new/better information as it comes into their possession or by REMOVING people when it is determined no nexus to terrorism exists.
FBI's policies include requirements for updating and removing watchlist records and even says that it is "essential" that this housekeeping activity be done. Watchlist revisions use the same procedure as watchlist nominations. However, NCTC says that they see very few modification requests from FBI and FBI admits that "the modification of watchlist records is not being performed on a regular basis."
So, once you're on, unless somebody actually finishes ALL the closeout work for the investigation (I have never seen an agent who jumped to do closeout work), once you're on, you are likely to grow moldy sitting on the list. Both TREX and TSC personnel told the IG that they believed that "often individuals inappropriately remained watchlisted because the case agents did not file the paperwork necessary to effect their removal."
I'm going to skip over all the findings about just plain errors and redundancies (so if you get put on the list 3 times and only get removed once, yep, you're still on the list).
3) Non-Investigative Subjects, International Terrorism
In addition to nominating people who are actually the subject of an open FBI criminal terrorism investigation, you know, with an open case file and all, FBI also has a formal process for nominating known or suspected international terrorists who are not the subject of FBI investigations. (Remember, I didn't make these rules, I'm just relaying them to you, stop throwing tomatoes at me!)
In order to nominate a person who is not the subject of an open case file or PI, the entity wishing to nominate the person must send a memorandum to the FBI Counterterrorism Division containing information supporting the nomination. If the Counterterrorism Division thinks the memo has merit, it submits the request to NCTC to nominate this person.
However, there is no mechanism or procedure for modifying the information or for removing the person from the watchlist. There also are no defined quality control procedures to describe what needs to be in this memo, unlike #'s 1 and 2 above which have written defined quality control systems.
Even worse, when the IG's office interviewed folks in the Counterterrorsim Division about this process, they said they had not received ANY such nomination requests. It turns out that field agents were forwarding these requests directly to NCTC and there was no paper trail for the bosses to even know that it was done, no tickler system to make sure the information on these names is ever updated, and nobody but the agent who put in the request who might even be aware that a particular name was put on the list in this fashion.
The weaknesses described above indicate that the potential exists for watchlist nominations to be inappropriate, inaccurate, or outdated because watchlist records are not being appropriately generated, updated or removed as required by FBI policy.
Ok, for those of you with high blood pressure, you might want to take a reading before deciding if you want to read further (and I must take a moment to don my riot gear because the throwing of rotten vegetables is escalating and I think there may be a few actual rocks in the mix) .
Remember I told you that the other alphabet soup agencies (including Interpol) had to go through FBI to nominate someone? This was a good idea b/c at least FBI keeps good records of who got on the list. All those forms and memos were in place when they audited. However, it turns out that these agencies have not been going through FBI, they have been forwarding their nominations directly to NCTC who insanely has been listing the FBI as the nominating agency (so how you gonna now sort them apart?--Sheez!) and the FBI has no freakin' idea who these other agencies put on, what criteria were used, there are no records.
Well, unless the agency itself kept them only, whoops, we don't know which agency to ask because NCTC coded them all as FBI! FUBAR!
Go read the report. But take your blood pressure medication first.
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At first, I thought TRex was put on the no fly list!
OMG. I thought you were gonna say TRex was on the terror list! Bwahaha…sorry.
LOL!
When I read the headline I’m thinking to myself, What the hell does T rex have to do with the terrorist watch list?
would that be the rock band or the dinosaur?
Ya know, they are so frikkin’ incompetent…they can’t even manage a frikkin’ list…
Morons. (there, now I’m on the no-fly list)…
Sigh.
LOL I did too!!!
TRex has been a bad bad boy.
I am not throwing tomatoes - I am laughing because there is nothing else to do with crap like this.
Me thinks we are in serious trouble if this process is supposed to keep us safe.
How many are there on this “watch list”?
Blogger TRex used to do the late night posts at FDL.
Whatever happened to Trex anyway. I remeber a “Playhouse” or a “Treehouse” but then I just lost track.
Well, we’ve got a million terrorists in the U.S. I’m quaking in my boots. Another example of searching for a needle in a haystack by adding more hay.
7, 342, 026 :)
ah, okay … i thought i was missing something
Is this a published list? If not why not? Why can’t we know who the terrorists are (supposedly)?
Billions and billions….
Classic.
Thanks for this, loosehead.
they’ve undoubtedly got the WMDs from iraq under that bed with them too …
http://www.iamtrex.com/
http://www.iamtrex.com/
Yeah!!! I wanna know if I’m a terrorist. Dagnabit
He’s here at his treehouse…
http://www.iamtrex.com/
Anybody who uses the term Dagnabit is officially not a terrorist.
http://www.nctc.gov/about_us/director_bio.html
This is the guy who’s in charge of the NCTC. Does he look like another hack installed by Bush?
I almost fell over when I saw what they were calling it. he must be so proud. *snark*
Shorter story on all of these terrorist watchlists: Garbage in garbage out.
dagnabit..you wascawy wabbit
Heh, T might be in for a little spike in views…! ;-)
well, at least he went to harvard, most of his hacks have law degrees from oral roberts
For a ridiculous example, I’ve been on the no-fly list. Eventually they figured out why I was going back and forth to Russia. But for several months they would confiscate my passport and give me the third degree before letting me on the plane––with a marshal either next to me or ahead of me. Your tax dollars at work folks.
My beloved therapod can be found here
Attack! ATTack! ATTACK!
So if you are nominated and all and get on the list, do they send you a little statuette of Osama bin Laden? Do you get to give an acceptance speech?
Did the marshall fly to Russia with you?
Interesting aside on WMDs. I asked my army major efriend who works in the Pentagon (for awhile as a Rumsfeld gofer, whom he detested) whether he had thought there were any WMDs in Iraq. He said he thought there were probably a few leftovers. That got me thinking. Not a scintilla of a hint of a trace of WMDS. Not a whif. Not a leftover. So how come? My hypothesis is that only dictators can be that thorough, and SH did it because he was afraid that his internal opponents would get ahold of them.
Now if the U.S. military tried to dispose of U.S. WMDs, there’d be much more than traces left all over the place.
Yes, and came to a couple of social events too. It was pretty funny. He was embarrassed and I felt sorry for him.
Tell TeddySanFran to pull the Angola 3 post. I think he set it to post at the wrong time.
So if, say, some nefarious characters at the White House were somehow mysteriously nominated, and there was no way to get off the list…
Or maybe it’s a statue of a therapod?
Oh, I am gonna tease him about this for a long long time
Well look at this way. You had your own protection detail, like the president
that’s a possibility, towards the end SH said it was just a publicity stunt … but felt there probably were other motivations
Sorry OT on an important Topic. But I have one chance and only one to get my signif other to watch the entire speech as he is at this point ‘primaried out’. So, I ask with apologies:
I have the youtubie, but Mr. BSRH hates to watch things on my small screen.
So, does anyone know if there are plans to rebroadcast the speech? ideally on a regular network . OK. that was a stupid thought. On cable?
Dagnabit! Dagnabit! Dagnabit! I’m not 3 terrorists!
Okay, I just flew over to terrorist TRex’s place…has Cindy been extraordinarily rendered somewhere?
http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2.....ssing.html
Oh, yeah, and I hadn’t seen that bizzare video by McInsane’s daughter….Mommy seems to have some “issues”….
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g.....10/sedona/
Hey Greenperson!!!!
tonight on cspan i think around 7
Or if nefarious characters at the WH somehow got some low level case agent to put X on the list, is more likely
What kind of fuckery is this?
bsrhead at 42—check cspan, was mentioned on the last thread, but don’t know what times. i think the first one is over, but that they were going to run it again later.
it’s on CSPAN now
Ya know what? I’ll bet that the TSP is the no fly list and everybody is on it, and they let you fly if they feel like it or TSA forks up. Just sayin’. One and the same.
There have been sightings of the TREX unit in action:
http://www.juliantrubin.com/imagesdino/trex.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/goflorida.....gedino.jpg
captain Obvious says only one guy could fuck something up as much as this process, George W Bush.
I read on a blog somewhere (can’t remember the name! Maybe Trex’s? I honestly don’t know what his blog name is…am new here myself)…that he’s given up blogging. Tired of it. Not sure if he’s going to stay out for good, but it appeared he needed time to regroup himself.
somehow, a while back, ted kennedy was put on the no-fly list………bet he was pissed.
would have liked to have heard those phone calls when he straightened it out.
I nominate W for the list…that’ll fix ‘im. They accept nominations don’t they??? Should he go on the hmmmm….Domestic Terrorist Nominations list…or the International Terrorist Nominations list….hmmmmm
Decisions, decisions.
He only goes by AF1.
Scratch that. LOL It appears he’s back in business! Nevermind. ;-)
hehehe then maybe he can ride a wild shrub back to Crawford
they just said it will be reaired on cspan at 10 pm… including these really really odd comments I just heard..
Domestic or interntional–
Must we choose?
Quick!
Put Lieberman and McStain on it while they are out of the country!
OT, but hey, it’s my thread:
Apologies to anyone who posed a question to on last night’s thread. I drafted the post and sent an email to Jane and Christy asking if they thought it was “cooked” enough and then shut down my computer and went into Manhattan for a Valerie Plame event at the Spy club.
Valerie was her usual radiantly beautiful self.
Anyway, I did not even know the post went up until I rebooted my computer this AM.
I answered a bunch of questions at the bottom of the thread.
lol
Maybe we should send in some tasty nominations…
(((hiya mm)))
that’s not the no-fly list.
don’t know what the name of the list is that you were on, and that sounds like a big enough hassle as it is… but the no-fly list is where you don’t get on the plane.
Can you summarize the viewer calls? I diddn’t listen.
Here’s the YouTube video of it from the Obama campaign:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWe7wTVbLUU
Seems clear that he’s appropriate for both lists.
KO discussing the Obama speech
Here is my entry on some of these from my scandals list:
egregious, you are probably on their extra screening list.
I feel special.
The terrorist watch list is not exactly the same as the no fly list, or at least it didn’t used to be. It used to be if you were on the watch list the case agent would be notified if you travelled through a check point, if you got your license checked at a traffic stop, if you got arrested for something else.
It didn’t necessarily mean “no-fly” though even then could result in that as a cop or a TSA person over reacts to seeing the name on the list if if not specifically designated “no-fly”
they pretty much ran the gambit … one guy said we’re at war with muslims, so why would be electing a muslim president which they cut off quickly, one black guy said he should disassociate himself with the pastor, one black woman said you read your bible and don’t always take what your pastor says completely, there was a white woman that said she liked him and thought what he said was the most inspiring thing she’d heard in a long time… it pretty much ran the gambit
So this is in interdeparmental fuckup of massive proportions? Or so they’d have us believe.
Stupid moi, I thought that one of the egregious and more-or-less bullshit “justifications” for that piece of shit called the “Patriot Act” was to allow these drones to all “work together efficiently”. Yet another lie brought to you by the Fabulous 1600 Crew.
Worst.Administration.Evah.
Suckiest.Preznit.Evah.
As a woman of color I am proud of Senator Obama.
Lahoma
Ya know how they always say the terrorists only have to be right once, but “we” have to be right all the time….
1 out of 500,000….Helloooo…what kind of odds are those?
They are so frikkin’ inefficient and incompetent. What a stupid program. Besides, tons of those names are repeat names or phony names or probably dead people or something. It is just as stupid as making moms drink their own breast milk at the airports, yet, not bothering to check anything like ID’s when you cross over the Mexican border to go to a bar. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Somebody is making tons of money on this farce. Honestly.
Idjiots.
Thanks. I gather you didn’t detect R talking points. The calls on Brian Lehrer this morning were interesting. I’ll search out my comment.
And most importantly most criminal administration ever.
Terrah alladatime!
nope, there’s a talking head discussion though on CNN, i’m sure they’ll trot out a representative republican for ‘fairness’ purposes
Bless you Lahoma…
Wow, Donna Brazile lost a ton of weight. She looks terrific
Here’s my summary of the wnyc callers’ reactions to the Obama speech.
yeah, she does …and she’s so smart and savvy …
All the paragraphs in my 85 should be quotes of mine from an earlier string. Somehow blockquotes don’t work right when there are multiple paragraphs.
TY.
L.
sounds pretty good, sorry i missed it … we were discussing the speech on the previous thread …
good thing too.
can you imagine a police state with efficient and competent cheneys in charge?
very good point
((((Lahoma))))
As am I.
My experience has been if I’m trying to put multiple paragraphs inside blockquotes, I have to put a least one space before the text in the opening para and one space after the text in the final para. And then I also check the preview just to make sure.
Selise, I may have to needlepoint that onto a pillow! Brilliant!
Thanks all. Cspan it is.
Then we’d really be in trouble….
Preview!! What an original idea! Thx. Next time I’ll try blockquotes for each separate paragraph. As I’m techno challenged, I often take the more laborious route that I can understand.
makes me think of Eddie Murphy’s Party All The Time
I haven’t looked at the PDF yet, LHP, but it looks like it’s almost as bad as I imagined. Anecdotal evidence certainly suggested there was no review process in place. That’s been confirmed. It’s also pretty clear it’s possible for someone to end up there arbitrarily. With no review process, that’s an obvious invitation for misuse and abuse.
Thanks for the article, LHP.
Speaking of Cheney, he got a deal in Iraq that will last beoynd W’s term in office. These guys are relentless.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....agreement/
That will work, but like I say, just try the spaces first and I bet that solves the problem for you. You have the blockquote things, just make sure a space before any text and again after all the text you want inside.
Keith just said he himself is in the running for Worst Person. Wonder whether he got the Bronze, Silver or Gold.
gotta look for that silver lining.
Still sucks as a political “consultant”. Just because she’s think and pretty does not mean she’s gotten any better at what she’s (supposed) to do.
Seriously. Donna Brazile? If she had paid attention to the media heathers in 2000, and kicked their collective asses by not granting them access among other things, dragged Gore kicking and screaming up with Clinton and Clinton screaming and kicking up on the stage with Gore we might have had an enlightened, peaceful world where fear-mongering would be the sole province of Osama bin Frootcake and all that money paid to Blackwater would be funding S-CHIP.
The theft of the Florida election returns was not Brazile’s fault but she certainly played her part and was rewarded for her failure well by the democratic party, as have been Bob Shrum and a host of other “consultants”.
So, no I don’t care if Donna is svelte, I care if Donna can win. Period. End of rant.
Seems to me over at emptywheel’s place I estimated that 930 ‘names’ or ‘records’ (possibly multiple records per name) get put on every workday. That still seems like a flood to me, and don’t see where it is coming from. I don’t see what sustains it, because there is no sign of approaching saturation.
Automated monitoring of communications is all that makes sense to me, but YMMV. I suppose that foreign communications provide a rich source of events leading to names going on the list. But then, what would the FBI have to do with matters overseas? Clearly, any list growing at that rate and approaching the size of the prison population of this fair country is, by definition, not working. Even if the people running it knew how to make it work. Which apparently they don’t.
now, tell me how you REALLY feel
From the article:
When you take impeachment off the table, the Congress has no way of enforcing its power.
Hello wobblybits.
Lahoma
lol heckuva job paulson … when keith is on point, he’s really on point
Actually, I don’t mean to mislead. There is a review process for nominees who are subjects of real honest to gosh FBI inveistigations. And decent record keeping for it
Actually, I think the FBI does a fair amount of overseas counter-terrorism work, and always has. Their investigators are pretty good (or used to be) and not prone to the lunacy of the more “black” operators, which of course makes them far less popular with Dick’n'George than the guys they think are the next best thing to Jack Bauer.
KO is talking about the same audit we are !