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Tucked away in this Depressed Republicans article comes this graf, just before the end (emphasis added):
The GOP has pummeled swing-district Democrats for refusing to back President Bush's update of counterterrorism surveillance laws and for last week's budget agreements that will allow most, if not all, of Bush's tax cuts to expire in 2011. Davis said the issues are not getting political traction now, but they could before November.
Can someone please have Tom Davis call Jay Rockefeller with the news?
Aw, hell. Why not go tell Jello Jay yourself? Please be sure to use your best Sunday manners.
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hiya Pach!
Well, even if the Republicans don’t have FISA, they can still run on Iraq and the economy. *g*
Love the graphic!!!
now to read.
You’d have to take it into Jay’s office and demonstrate its relevance using his own body. Otherwise he can’t tell his elbow from those other locations.
It’s one from the vault.
I made it for one of my first posts here almost exactly two years ago.
La plus ca change. . .
You mean little’s changed on the Intelligence Committee since Democrats gained the majority? Where’s Phase II, by the way?
And if Jello Jay’s still looking for his balls, that graphic won’t help — they are in a glass jar on Cheney’s desk.
Ah, Phase II.
You are a connoisseur of failure.
(Okay, why am I lapsing into French all of a sudden?)
I sent Jay the same thing I sent the Blu Dogs:
The question being: to what depths are the republics willing to go to insure that traction occurs?
‘Bout time for a major terra alert…or worse, ain’t it? :-(
and the jello keeps wiggling!
OT– Michelle Obama is on C-Span right now. Wow. I love her.
I’d not be surprised to see an “October Surprise.”
maybe people are waking up?
Don’t forget the show trials.
I’m interested in WHY the issues aren’t getting political traction. Are people just exhausted and worried about the economy? Or is the jello rhetoric finally failing? (I think I know the answer, but heck, I’ve been reading economic stuff all weekend so thought I’d peek back over the fence into politics…)
Have you heard anything recently from AK?
Davis said the issues are not getting political traction now, but they could before November.
I’m torn I want the FISA laws gone, but I want the GOP to keep wasting more time and money on this issue. After all what happens if because the GOP keeps fighting us on this issue the issue gets traction with the American people?
But the American people side with us!
Think the terror alerts won’t work anymore. W’s cried “wolf” too often.
They all know they’re in for an old-fashioned ass-kicking, ****IF**** HRC accepts the inevitable and either accepts the VP nod, or backs out and starts backing the next democratic POTUS, Barack Obama.
She cannot win a plurality of the pledged delegates, and if the “Super-delegates” doa back-room deal, it will destroy the party. So HRC’s choices are clear - achieve Karl Rove’s goal (a permanent republican majority, which I suspects she wants), or save the party by abandoning her ego and embracing the future.
She’s going to go for door number one, Monty.
If she does, get used to saying “President McCain.”
I might add that even our most brainwashed rethug friends and business associates no longer defend the prez (duh) or even the rethugs (more interesting), so…
I have indeed. Still in San Antonio. Working many hours. Dad in and out of the hospital and needing much care.
Actually the word in modern French is connaisseur.
That’s what worries me — he and Cheney might be tempted to let another terror attack through.
Think the credibility has finally been eaten thru on every subject under the sun.
An example of one: my hairdresser (a 70-year-old straight Jewish man), who’s pretty liberal on most subjects, expressed concern about Iran & nukes. I ran thru the whole analytical issue about why not to worry, noticing in the mirror that he never stopped frowning. Finally I said: Why would you believe anything W has said? He’s lied about everything else, so why would you believe him on Iran? I saw that he popped a big grin.
No going there tonight. My tin foil hat’s in for repairs.
The GOP should realize that since Bush has been wrong about everything during his presidency (the economy, the war, we will be welcomed with flowers, etc) that having Bush stump for an issue might have the reverse effect.
In which case they do not want this issue being on voters minds in November.
The Blue Dogs however should be afraid, very afraid.
It’s the ultimate in cop outs. They take credit for new attack and if there is one, they say they weren’t given all the authority they needed to forestall it. In other words, it is always good if you are Republican.
Who is dong GOP polling on this issue Mark Penn?
Now that is one great graphic! A keeper!!
Being catastrophically wrong about everything has had no effect on the media’s coverage of Bush or resulted in a serious re-evaluation of his policies.
Oops that should read: It’s the ultimate in cop outs. They take credit for no new attack and if there is one, they say they weren’t given all the authority they needed to forestall it. In other words, it is always good if you are Republican.
I just came back from a two-day Loggers meeting. At no time did they mention Bush. Some of the speakers even had just mild criticisms of Gov. Gregoire and they even had to say that she did a good job on the Big Wind disaster. We aren’t talking folks that are going to be voting for Democrats in November.
Maybe we should step up our advertising on this issue a notch build some more public support and watch the GOP refuse to debate or schedule a vote on FISA.
Would that it were so but what’s that quote about never underestimating the IQ of the American public?
Read an article (probably GA origin) describing some people’s reactions who were in the area where the tornado hit; quite a few of them mentioned first thinking it was a terraist’s attack. If that’s become the initial reaction among the American public, we are in deep ca-ca.
I was surprised by those “terrorism?” reactions as well, but then I remembered that Atlanta had home-grown terrorism long before 911 — at the Olympics. Perhaps that excuses the reaction?
True but newspaper stocks have been in decline ever since Bush got in office despite 2 wars going on. The American people disapprove of this war by 70% despite the news coverage. Now imagine what those numbers would be if the “Fairness Doctrine ” were back and we broke up the big media conglomerates.
She is blowin’ me away…
Best Stump speech I’ve seen since I was at a Clinton Rally in ‘92 !!!
I’d vote for her for President…
LOL! You and Pach are in awfully fine form today - bless ‘ya great hearts!
Wasn’t in NYC when crane collapsed (a few blocks from my apt bldg), but didn’t see any mention of terror attacks. NYCers are just more reasonable than folks elsewhere, I guess. *g*
Bush is not carrying loggers in WA then just who is supporting him?
Maybe Davis could contact his senators, JOHN Warner and Jim Webb and tell them that Virginian prefer Madison and Mason to Bush.
BTW, last I saw it, W’s approval was 19%. despite media coverage & stoopid people. That is important.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/19-percent-3/
Maybe Christie could run for Senator from W VA
Who are Bush’s supporters do they only show their faces on TV or write comments on Right wing blogs? Pollsters say they exist but I’m not so sure they do even at 20%?
Love the graphic too, Pach! Hysterical.
So let me see if I have this straight…
The republicans are now figuring out that FISA is an important issue. Uh huh. Well, they’ve obviously haven’t thought long and hard as to why Georgie is butting heads with anyone who does NOT want immunity for the telecoms, because if they did think it through, they would come to realize immunity for the telecoms is immunity for Bush from being impeached, because Georgie knows both broke the law to spy on Americans!
BTW, last I saw it, W’s approval was 19%. despite media coverage & stoopid people. That is important.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/19-percent-3/
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Dang made my comment useless still its good news:)
Very good point.
eCAHN @39 -
Is your home OK? Don’t know about the “reasonable” part but, best I can tell, “fearless” and “street smart” might be two good descriptions. *g*
Jello Jay perfect. If they won’t impeach him, why not humiliate him on a regular basis. Republicans should take this opportunity to save themselves and endorse an effort to end the bad work of the Shrub administration. It is bad enough Republicans follow along but what is up with Democrats who do. There is no reason.
Ta. Had no idea he was back in the States. Please give him my love and best wishes when next you speak; I miss him greatly at the Lake.
One wonders how much money the Jello family has invested in the Telcos?
I don’t live in their districts anymore, but I gave ol’ Jerry McNerney and Dennis (sometimes the Menace) Cardoza some thanks for their FISA votes. McNerney angered many progressives (including me, though I may not be a very liberal superprogressive, but I will include myself just for ducks for the purposes of this comment) with some of his quirks, and some of his positions, but he came out very strong against the GOP scaremongering on FISA, and voted the right way. Cardozavoted the right way too. Even though he is an official Blue Dog, he didn’t sign the unofficial quasi Blue Dog letter that signaled a cave-in, and I was glad to see he was on the right side.
Me too. It was wonderful to have him here last summer. Say hi for me?
I like the high-toned graphic too. Is that a suggestion for effective letters to dilatory and refractory Democratic officials? I will download it for future use. Thanks.
Bush’s approval rating on economics has dropped to 19%. I didn’t think that many people watched the business channel.
The GOP is starting to implode in the north, FISA debate, or not…
There is an open rebellion in the Alaska GOP happening right now. They held their convention in Anchorage Thursday through Saturday.
The popular GOP Governor (85% approval last week, after announcing she’s 7 months pregnant) was involved in an attempt to wrest control of the party from the Corrupt Bastards Club, led by Party Chair Randy Ruedrich, Don Young, Ted Stevens, and the big oil surrogates within the party structure.
Don Young was openly rude during the Governor’s speech that opened the convention. Then her Lieutenant Governor announced he was filing to run against Young, with the Governor at his side.
The war barely came up. The economy wasn’t much of an issue. But the corruption of the AK GOP and distress over Democratic Party inroads in many recent local elections should have the party’s old school pols more worried than they are.
The Governor’s coup attempt failed, but she’s pretty friggin’ tenacious.
Mahalo, another Horton masterpiece! ;-)
Once the corruption becomes public, it’s pretty hard to regain the confidence of the electorate, I would imagine. Believe me this time, even though I’ve stolen from you in the past…
There was a promise he made that, oddly enough, always made me feel a wee tad safer knowing he was around. It’s nice to know he’s back in the States, tho’ not at the Lake.
Isn’t she amazing? Now that’s who i want running for prez.
He’s in full panic mode
the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets = Plunge Protection Team
I’m in the country & won’t be back to the city for a few days, but the accident was far enough away that nothing should have happened to my bldg.
PhysioProf’s wife was only a block or two away when it happened. He lives in the same neighborhood & she was on an errand. But they are both safe.
BTW, Cardoza is right in the middle of one of the “Reagan Democrat” and recently Bushite California regions.
It will be interesting to watch the House Democrats in that part of the state. The Central Valley was’Truman Democratic’ back in the day, which from my personal experience with the old-timers meant quite progressive domestically, but very anti-commie and aggressive in foreign affairs, but not to the point of neocon wingnuttiness. I never heard any insane anti-UN or anti-diplomancy stuff. That kind of thing mainly came from little old blue-haired ladies with astro-turf lawns and plastic flowers, and clear plastic covers over all their furniture who thought FDR was a communist and plotted Pearl Harber with Hitler. They tended to come from the midwest and also think that social security is non-governmental private program. I am serious, that is a distinct type of person I remember from voter reg and GOTV canvases.
Then it went Reagan democratic. I think the recent southern invasian of certain parts of California (you can never tell what kind of riff-raff a dot-com boom will bring in) turned it into Cheney/Buch country. I think the Central Valley can be blue again, and progressive domestically. Probably always be too militaristic in foreign affairs, though. What to do about them transplant southerners, though, that is a problem. Why move to California, Georgia has good peaches too.
Anyway, be interesting to watch how people like Cardoza do in next few election cycles.
biggest.clueless.asshole.ever.
J-E-L-L-O,
when you look at
Contrib. $$$ by Industry you find Telco’s at # 13,
but when you look at Top Indiv Contrib. look who’s Numbah 1
Isn’t that pretty high considering.
Mercy, three pups that close! So glad all of you are O.K. as well as the GA pups who have reported in.
republicans! what is cheney going to be doing with all of his free time this time next year?
they’re all gonna be scattered, how they all gonna plot and plan and keep in touch with the fisa scenario they have set in place?
think the dems aren’t gonna be usin’ it? bet the republicans are thinkin’ bout that………or, are they?
they’re stupid as hell for not considering their own futures.
no email, no texting, no cell phones, no land lines, no credit cards………hmmmmmmm……..they’ll have to meet at waffle houses.
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dick cheney on the way to the middle east right now.
with his whip.
as i have said before, may they take it from him and use it on him (in the best possible way, of course)
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harry shearer spoofing him in a meeting with the saudis right now……”cheney confidential” he calls the skits.
it’s my favorite when he does cheney. nails it all.
”i’m kinda like john mccain, still working on the economics thing”
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(go pach, being analytical is still in style, in my book.)
You’re having waaaaaay too much fun up there in the chilly North. *g* Did young really sleep thru’ that speech?
Glad to hear that you all are okay. We saw pics of the scene and the GA scene this morning, devastating
19% approval on economics -that is getting down to where it should have been all along. Let’s hope for zero soon. May get there they way things are looking for the second and third quarters.
Pach -
I just got a letter off to Senator Rockefeller. Thanks for posting this. The more messages he receives the better. Now he can never say he didn’t know.
OT - I really don’t like the new Obama ad. Targeting Repugs and Independents to convert for a day is torturing the voting process. On the other hand, I have no other suggestion since the wingnuts are targeting the same group to vote for Hillary. In my humble opinion, it shows that they are more affraid of Obama than Hillary. What to do? I hate unternal conflict. I feel like the immovable object meeting the irresistible force. SPLAT!
I’d like the public to realize that it is Republicanism and Reaganomics that is responsible for our current economic predicament, not simply George Bush.
Kudos to Hugh, Connaisseur is the correct spelling.
And the “la” before “plus ça change” is superfluous and wrong.
I was watching the folks in Atlanta who thought the tornado was a “terrrririst tack”. Still got a bump on my forehead from smashing it on my genou…
Fine post Pach, thanks.
The other twist to the McCain meme is that it suggests that any uptick in attacks is due to AQ, and not Iraqis who want an end to our occupation. You know, it’s important to get it through our heads that it’s al qaeda killing our troops, not Iraqis!
What Obama ad is asking voters to “convert for a day”?
cbl at 64
THANKS for that!
i’ve heard of the open secrets site, wrote it down many times, but never dug in there, thanks, i will now…..
we’ll have to ask christy, but i don’t think at&t is the major phone company in wva……..hmmmmmm.
wonder why they’d wanna bother with him……hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
wow, wow.
and then i looked for coal companies………..they’re right at the top, but i thought there would have been more of them………
and then i went to the wva contributors, only about 2 mil……….that’s not much from his home state. they didn’t list where it came from. but i think that can be found anyway.
his list is a little ’off’……majorly.
thanks, i’ll look into it.
wow
his nuts are in a clincher.
OT–
BREAKING–from NYTimes:
rgr that! one of favorite goya paintings too.
MORE BREAKING–From NYTimes:
I would too. I don’t live in the Central Valley anymore, so am not much in touch with the current community thinking. Been alot of growth in commuter population there recently, mainly from outside state, a lot from south and mid Atlantic, and they tend to have more conservative ideas than long time Northern Californians.
But many political and fiscal and public goods attitudes of long time Californians are confused, self-contradictory and self-defeating. The public attitudes were a confused mess the last time I lived there and am not sure what can turn it around.
The Golden State has gotten greedy selfish and cynical, and is turning itself into a huge machine digging itself into the ground, and many people are still responding with reflexive Reagan-style cynicism about government, and acquiescing into allowing the machine to dig deeper even faster.
But very weasily and ultra-DLC policies of the Davis wing of CA Democratic party responsible for the mess as well, in my opinion.
It’s amazing how many people run away from the economic subject. I see their eyes glaze over. It’s the big scary subject beyond mortal minds. If you put a quarter in the parking meter you are in the middle of economics so you may as well say something. What else do we use every day (forget personal items) other than money. It’s so prevalent we carry purses, wallets, pockets. That’s economics. No mystery. If you ever collected a paycheck and ran a household budget, you’re an expert. It’s a lot more than abstract theory. It’s from the everyday use of money that we can see behind the Federal Reserve screen.
and i’m not getting the graphic at the top of the post due to my outdated computer, so can someone tell me who you are talking about?
He was acting out. That’s about all he can do anymore. When I registered Thursday afternoon as a journalist, they gave me one of those convention grab bags. Among other useless items, it contained a Don Young pencil. As much as you sharpened it, it remained quite dull. When I tried to write with it, it wrote nothing but “no comment…”
There was also a Ted Stevens diaper in the bag….heh…
He is asking for Republicans and Independents to convert for a day and register Democrat and vote for him. He must be feeling the Clintons and wingnut talkshows. I’ll look for the linkie.
Big sell off tomorrow?
“It’s the big scary subject beyond mortal minds.”
Actually, it is not that at all. Economists like to keep it very obscure and mysterious, and that is a signal that economics is not a real science as practiced by most economists in the US. In the US, economic science is much more ideologically driven than in other areas, something often noted by many acadmeic and business economists from other parts of the world. In other words, in the US, much of it is ideologically corrupt. That is my opinion, and since I am in the biz, why I am anonymous here.
A famous mathematician used to come to grauduate seminars and he would stick around afterwards to explain some of the more abstruse presentations with some cartoons and sketches on a piece of paper. He said that in his experience, in most sciences and math, if some one gave a talk that the audience could not understand, it was considered the speakers problem. But in economics, when the audience could not understand, it was considered the audiences problem. And he said he thought that was a big problem with economics.
Most scientists strive to communicate their science in simple intuitive, but still correct and rigorous, wasy so that the general public could understand it. Until the US economics establishment adopts that attitude, I think the whole enterprize should be viewed with some suspicion.
It is Da Vinci’s Vitruvian Man on which Pach pened.
sheesh, if i thought that i could never attract a single under graduate let alone 100s of them to my lectures… economics is highly intuitive, and I always explain things that way before i got into the graphs or the calculus…
I don’t know the central valley all that well, but I get the impression that there is a bit of a gradient. I have the vague impression that the Bakersfield end has always been dominated by okies, who tend to be pretty conservative, while the northern end seems to have a lot of San Francisco liberalism.
For the WATB in us all?
LOL! One can only hope we live long enough to see the two of them get their just desserts (sp?). If it isn’t spelled that way, it should be. *g*
Bernanke is getting incredibly desperate … he should read his own paper on Monetary policy alternatives at the Zero Bound
I was thinking about how much smarter Democratic first ladies have been than their Republic counterparts. Jackie Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and now possibly Michelle Obama. Maybe she’ll run for president in a few years.
and I’d actually be pretty worried about that … JP Morgan is a big player in the derivatives markets–especially hedge funds and such… it’s just likely to compound the situation
You say it so much better than I do. My point is that it is deliberately obtuse and the average joe thinks it is too complicated to understand. It is a subject that makes me so angry because it snake-oiled so many people.
Here’s another phrase: “It’s very complicated.” All to shut people up and I see it working.
Thanks for putting it so well. We need more economic exposure to demystify it.
I live in the Central Valley, there is alot of agriculture and farming in this area. It’s blood red. We’ve been making headway in registrations over the last year but we’ve got a ways to go. The number of people here that constantly vote against their own interest is shocking to say the least.
Is the term ‘okies’ politically acceptable and correct? Next will be ‘arkies’ and ‘dakes’ and other depression era cuss words, and next will be talkin about getting the sheriff to go clean out the hooverville out south sid of the SP tracks.
I don’t think any part of California outside of the the SF Bay can be considered San Francisco liberal. But Northern California and Central Valley, back in the day was definitely progressive left domestically more than rest of country. I remember my Eastern and Southern branches of my family routinely referring to CA as socialist. And I would think, “Hell yeah. That is why are number one.” but I am all growed up now and do not particpate in regional sniping, we are all in this together.
From my experience the depression era dustbowl immigrants as a community were quie progressive, sensible and level-headed about domestic issues. So, I would never say anything bad about them.
Bakersfield is in its own little world down there in the Kern Basin. Always been oil and cattle country as much as traditional CA agriculture, and much more conservative in a west-TX way than rest of CA.
i would be over the moon if she ran but i don’t think it’s going to happen. i’ve said it all along, the wrong Obama was running *g*.
tw3—-thanks! tooo funny, it just loaded……..right before i read your comment.
that is what is on my mini-notepad that i keep in my purse……from my mom, she got it in italy……at his gift shop.
i was passing it around at garden club thursday, people needed paper, and a few older chicks pointed out the ’anatomical’ parts to me and snickered, ’you’re dirty old broads’ i said to them………hadn’t even noticed it! i saw that drawing the first time when i was in grade school…….and cuz i’m an artist i guess, many naked people around. i drew them….didn’t even notice the man parts….you get that part, i’m sure…..
you provided a link to your barn wood paintings a while back, have any new stuff posted? i have a friend that has a gallery in his arts supply store in a college town, have been meaning to ask you……you did give me your email a while back, but i lost it. sorry. airhead.
he’s one of my best friends, honest, and sells a lot of art for people…..takes stuff he likes, and stuff i like.
you know I’ve always considered knowledge of economics as very empowering, and I try to teach it that way as well as train future economists and economics instructors that way …
and tw3k-have you seen margot’s art? it is incredible. very nice. i think she has it on her facebook……i don’t have a facebook account, so, i don’t know for sure, but i think she said it is on there.
For those of you in the economics profession, is there *anything* that could be done at this point in time to salvage the ship that appears to be going down with all hands on board (except the rich)?
QuakerGirl @ 95 -
That IVC thing has long past gotten on my very last nerve. Used to shut people up but also avoid proving to everyone how little the pundits actually know.
I am an ex-Central Valley-ite, born and raised. May family’s territory was from Fresno up through Sacramento. You are correct about how conservative it has become. From talking with my relatives who still live there, I have attributed it to long time natives being deluded into changing from Truman Democrats (in the sense I described above) into Reagan Democrats and then Bushites. And also to lots of recent immigration from more conservative areas of the country.
I don’t remember seeing the long standing reactionary and ignorantly reflexively hostile attitudes government, or the racial bigotry of Reagan Democrats in other areas of the country there. But that was long ago.
If you have any ideas about the reasons for the change, I would be interested in hearing them.
((((hi dakine))))
what is WATB?
The high point of my week was reading this by Glenn Greenwald yesterday morning:
Yes, it is quite nice indeed. She sends some stuff to her friends once in a while, I always enjoy it.
Here is one proposal from Alan Blinder, famous bigshot macro-economist from Princeton. But his proposal will only take care of one part of the mess, directly related to housing. Because totally unregulated free for all financial markets have been trading mystery meat securities for several years, that has resulted in a spreading financial market freeze-up, and Blinders proposal does not directly deal with that. I will have link for a solution to that part in a moment.
There are other possible fixed to housing mess than Blinders, but his is a decent idea.
Economic View
From the New Deal, a Way Out of a Mess
By ALAN S. BLINDER
Published: February 24, 2008
THE question of the day seems to be this: Are we in, or heading for, a recession? But so much attention is focused on that question that we may be losing sight of an even greater danger: the possibility that powerful headwinds may prevent a strong recovery from any slowdown.
Most of the potential headwinds stem from the housing slump and related financial crises that began — but, unfortunately,