Of course, there are those who disagree. These people are, in a word, lunatics. "Cultists" also fits. Or "freaks." "Cretins." "Wingnuts."
A harsh assessment, to be sure, but hey, it’s the truth. The stout defenders of the decision to go to war in the first place like to get all upset about the "9/11 was an inside job" crowd, but they’re just as far out there, every bit as obnoxious, and have a far louder public megaphone. They’re goofy and smarmy like Scientologists, only without Tom Cruise’s undeniably excellent hair.
Stephen Hayes, for instance, still thinks there were too WMDS and Saddam & Osama were, like, totally fucking!11!ONE11! Rob Farley’s response to Hayes is the correct one, though I’d add that it’s pretty funny that Greater Wingnuttia is getting all hepped up about a report that was clearly meant to make the best case for Iraq’s Ties to Teh Islamisistic Bin Laden Terr’ists as could possibly be made… only to have the government deliberately sit on the report because the evidence for such a proposition was thinner than Nicole Ritchie right after Ramadan. If this report said what Hayes pretends it does, there would have been a fucking speech from the Oval Office, not just a shriek from the rubber rooms at the Weekly Standard. Duh. Paranoid, ignorant gits.
But Hayes is not the only kook out there. Here’s an entertaining giggle from one of the daintier flowers in the Red State chuckle-patch, referring specifically to Hayes’ bleatings:
what we do know about the report suggests that those who are so certain the original justification for the war was so fatally flawed that it has rendered the entire enterprise invalid might want to reconsider their position in the light of what we know now as opposed to what we knew in 2003. Based on that knowledge, they might want to give some thought to an alternate history of the last five years–a history in which we did not invade Iraq. Would we now be consumed with Obama’s pastor and Spitzer’s hooker, or would our attention be on more serious threats to our national security?
Fortunately for all of us, that’s a question we don’t have to answer.
Never mind all the dead people! The two trillion dollars down the shitter!
Elvis has Saddam’s WMD’s in Bigfoot’s UFO, and they’re about to parachute them down on Bin Laden’s backyard barbecue on his pool deck. Quick, let’s invade Paraguay.
Fuck.



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Aloha, Thers!
Thers! How’s stuff?
Thers may be running a little late tonight so ya’ll are gonna have to make do with me until he can join us.
You’re missing the T in Late…!
refresh and see the T ct
Hey CT! Supposed to a chance of snow in Flagstaff tomorrow. Aren’t you just missing it?!
I wish the Dems [well, Obama] would start hitting the “what could we have done with the $2 trillion we flushed away in Iraq” meme.
Fuck(ed) in spades, no high cards showing. Good evening, Thers.
add another “t” and i’ll have one
Howdy, Ma’am! 8-)
I do miss skiing…! Ya can keep the cold, tho! *g*
Its Lae Ni.
Two trillion, is that a lot?
the title is fixed – but it is beyond the scope of my abilities to change the title in the link for the post.
Maybe it was Lei night in honor of CTuttle.
i could use a double myself
OT
NYC crane collapse.
PhysioProf & I both live within a few blocks.
What I find interesting is that the Red Cross shelter has only a handful of people, despite the fact that buildings containing hundreds of residents have been evacuated. The point being to contrast this small disaster in a wealthy area, where most people have other resources (I’m at my country house), vs. Katrina, where the majority of the victims had no fallback. Quite stark.
Evening all.
Sorry for the missing T, try some coffee maybe?
It’s going to be blamed on the dang libruls, just like Viet Nam. If them dang libruls wouldn’t have turned everyone against the trewps with their negativity we would’ve won. Dang libruls are always against Ameruhkuh. Dang librul media.
hey thers.. *turning reins back over the the crapmaster*
Everything gets served up better with wine.
We need to stop this fucking atrocity now! The bastards in the Pentagon squashed the release of the catalog of all the lies that lead us into that Cluster Fuck… Fucking Bull Shit…!
I have a question: What other foreign policy blunders are in this “worst ever” category. I can’t think of any that even come close. The War of 1812 is the only thing I can think of. Bay of Pigs was a roaring suck-cess by Bush standards.
Oops, sorry for the profanity, I don’t know what came over me…?
Thanks kindly.
We like totally underfuckingstand.
handing ct a box of forks
Viet Nam?
You omitted another of the reasons for the war that did not pan out:
Cheap Oil For US, FOREVAH AN EVAH!!
I remember one of those old necon fools spouting about that to congress before the war (It was one of Rummy’s star flunkies, the name slips me now. He went on to corrupt his way out of job running the World Bank in record time after the Iraq invasion went bad).
Then, after the ‘noble spread of democracy through the barrel of gun’ became the operative reason for the war, recalling the cheap oil reason was considered a vile unAmerican slander against the noble Cheney/Bush democracy crusade, and mentioning it indicated a black and evil heart, an outrage against decency.
But then when documentation came out that getting US corporate hands on all the oil was indeed an undeniable reason for the war, the US corporate media declared that everyone knew that all along, and it there was no reason to discuss it, since it was ‘old news.’
This country and the corporate press is just as corrupt as it was in the old robber baron days. The packaging is slicker, and the it is wrapped up in a friendlier more civilized rationale, but it just as bad. Completely, totally corrupt, a pile of stinking putrescent corruption of mindless brutality, greed and crony capitalism, nothing more.
Worthy of multiple impeachments and convictions for all of bigshots in this administration.
evening thers. howdy y’all
The only thing I know for certain if Bush hadn’t been selected president I wouldn’t be sitting here with a fifth of Jack Daniels and a sixer of Newcastle shaking with rage and frustration trying to type coherently in an attempt to communicate with like minded people in order to feel as though all is not lost.
Can I stick the B*stards with’em…? My Boyz are on the eve of another deployment… 8-(
To where?
Oh, you can read the report. Here it is.
What happened was they were planning to release it to fanfare, to say “SEE! There were too Al Qaeda/Iraq ties!” But then someone must have pointed out that no, it actually doesn’t.
That report is all they have, and it’s spun to make a mountain out of a molehill, and it’s *still* nothing.
That’s what makes Hayes such a schmuck. He’s even more shameless than the Bush administration.
Which is pretty dmn amazing, when you think about it.
Wolfie?
Duh. I forgot that one. And I even just read the article about this being the 40th anniversary of Mai Li. Sorry for being such a dolt. I’ve been away for awhile and was not plugged in to daily events at all. It was heavenly.
Iraq!
Tell em not to go.
forking yeah ct
I was going to say “worst,” but on reflection I’d still say Vietnam.
I am glad my nephew is back.
Evening, TexBetsy. How’s the weather down there?
Beautiful weather Thers! Mid 80’s. sunshine. perfect!
No, we’d all like to forget that one. But I think it illustrates your point, those two disasters are in a class by themselves.
Anyway, remember after ‘Nam how they made all those movies glorifying the war? I think they’re already starting to do that with Iraq. I heard they’re making on right now.
Listen to this. It will make you feel more better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..chive.html
9/11 was an inside job between bussiness partners
viet nam lasted longer – so far. its the advances in medical technology, treatment and faster responses to injured that are preventing this current debacle from having equivalent kia numbers
It was in the 50s here yesterday– we were all ecstatic!
Cheap Oil For US, FOREVAH AN EVAH!!
That was one of the reasons, yeah, but an unstated one.
Even if you give them all the benefit of the doubt as to the purity of their intentions… it’s still unforgivable.
Thank you -yes, it was Wolfowitz, of course. How could that name slip my mind? I remember him testifying to congress that the new free market Iraq oil revenues would pay for the war, and we could look forward to $20 a barrel oil for as far as the eye could see. This was about the same time he pissed all over Gen Shinseki’s prediction it would take between 200 and 500 thous soldiers to do Iraq right, especially after the invastion was over.
I must be getting old, or lost in my reveries about my family’s old timers’ tales about life in Central California back in the old days.
Senate Plane Grounded in Newfoundland — Would Not Start from The Washington Note
in fact 9/11 accomplished everything the boooooshes wanted
Hee hee. We got up to 40 today, and I was happy as anything.
Just want it to warm up enough so the mud dries and the kids can play outside. They’re going a bit nuts indoors, but our yard is a swamp.
I couldn’t think of his name either, but I knew right away who you meant. I could picture him licking his comb.
Hey, in case anybody forgot — your candidate totally fucking sucks!
Red State chuckle-patch
That is Hysterical. Gonna try to remember that one.
Evening Y’all. And, I do mean Y’all.
That said, can I play in your sandbox for a little while?
Where are you Thers?
they did not want the gas and oil to be cheap,that is just what they told us ,to sell it.they merely wanted CONTROL of it,to do with as they pleased,neede our army for that
(((((PaytonsOpa)))))
Stay with us, all is not lost. Lot of us have been through that kind of white hot flaming anger and banked it down to coals, still enough heat to give us energy and passion for the fight.
Hee hee.
Wanna buy a T-shirt?
Hey Demi! You southern?
Upstate NY.
OMG, I just watched Tom Cruise linked through a link. He said absolutely NOTHING about what Scientology is all about. Really weird.
Awesome, Thers! Mahalo, I knew it was only a matter of time… I’ll be perusing it and updating my woefully neglected blog on it…! *g*
best selling job the SCLM has ever done
True– she said McCain is ready to be Commander in Chief.
Thank you that was a very nice song. What helps me a lot and I’m doing it now, is playing Buddy Guy “A Man and the Blues” at about 100dbs.
completely off-topic.
hey is there a DL in Phoenix/Mesa? Love to meet up with some of you reprobates…LOL
Oh, and wingnuts are assholes. What else is new?
I was wondering where you’ve been. Honestly.
Glad you’re back. Did you bring teh heaven with ya?
I spent a whole winter in Buffalo one week.
And anyone who thinks that Iraq will be shorter than VN, no matter who’s elected, is smoking dope. Neither Obama nor Clinton will withdraw for fear of being blamed for the defeat.
What is Scientology?
Jesus to God:
“Scientologists are from Mars, Dad. We checked.”
h/t to Eddie Izzard, my hero.
Ahem. I grew up in Buffalo. Loved each & every snow flake & still love snow & cold.
hahahahahahaha
it is his opium
TRex will probably sport one at eschacon…! *g*
Me too. I lived there till I was 12.
LOL
Nevah. But, ah jest love to tahp with a accent.
Me Valley Girl. Fer sure.
I was worried about you. CTuttle told me you’d been around today. Probably a good time to be out of dodge. Yes. Tells us a lot about our crisis situation.
I earlier heard on a conservative radio station that while LA County spends $800 million on their fire protection, San Diego County spends $8 million. Freaks me out, assuming it’s true.
Thank you for your concern but do not worry this is just my Saturday night. I stay clean and sober the rest of the time and I do participate in the fray. I will not let the bastards grind me down.
Hee hee. We don’t get nearly as much snow as they do, but we get enough…
I don’t mind winter but the 3 weeks or so where the snow melts and everything turns to mud gets on my nerves. The 2-Year-Old walked out in the front yard the other day and the mud sucked his shoes off, poor little guy.
Does that mean you are a flatlander?
I hope so. Looking forward to meeting him.
Here’s a grilled chickenhawk:
http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=210
Where do you live now & what year did you leave Buffalo?
living well (be well) is the best revenge
I am trying to remain on the heavenly plane, but current events sure make it hard. The presidential race to the bottom is really depressing. I need to keep up my chanting to keep our own crazies at bay.
I lived in PA. in the mountains for awhile. I was 35 when I moved there. I had never seen much snow (only in SF and NOLA. I sent my kids off to school bundled up just like in ‘The Christmas Story’.
Ne illegitimis…That was my father’s favorite phrase. Glad to hear you are ok.
Ah lives in da foothills.
Born and bred.
Ders horses and rancheros an stuff.
i will say it….”i never anticpated the dems slinging the mud”
NYC seems to do “disasters” well.
I jabbed at my Houston friend who was telling me about how afraid she is that she’ll be attacked in the WalMart parking lot. Told her that I could bike or job anywhere in NYC without fear.
what i really want to know, did ya have the object d’art commonly referred to as ‘the lamp’?
Viet Nam and Iraq have both been huge a success for the ruling investor class. Neither war was fought to “free an oppressed people” or to “bring democracy to the world.” They were fought and are being fought to enrich the investor class. The IMF, World Bank and US foreign aid are not about helping the population of the countries they infect, they are there to exploit the capital, natural resources and cheap labor for their investors. Iraq’s fate was sealed when Saddam demanded his oil be paid for in Euros vice dollars. The US knew that if other countries did the same thing the value of the dollar on the currency markets would fall. When Shrub says the occupation is progressing nicely, he’s right, from his point of view. We will keep pouring tax dollars into Iraq, which come back to the pockets of the, say it with me, investors. The longer the occupation goes on the richer the investors get. It’s called capitalism.
It’s the same old shit. Follow the money.
cool …me too
Jeebus. I ain’t makin sense. Must be the two glasses of vino.
Ron has been making illustrations for the wine industry. Of course, we have to have a bottle to look at/drink so he can illustrate it.
A tick ready to pop!
Total Truff.
You said it.
(chanting with ya….)
Not yet. I have been searching hi and lo.
yup,and if ya dont think they do black ops in this country,or start illegal wars,think again
Ahhh…that scene with the younger brother not being able to put his arms down is da bomb. Sometimes my son plays that scene out. Being in LA, we never get to do that, so he Plays It.
No apology needed.
A timely Adrenalin OD reference… no wonder you get so many links from Wolcott.
And my kids were really embarrassed. All the other children had on coats. Sara said she couldn’t get up if she fell down. No joke. Well, joke.
So true. NYC is wonderful any time of the day or night. I can’t say the same about Houston.
Eddie Izzard, working class hero w/a brain inherited from Orwell via Spike Milligan…if you ever get a chance to see him live, DO IT.
And why not a little Izzard for the evening, before I go out w/the relatives:
From Dressed to Kill- Easter & Christmas
I have been to Houston. They can’t even evacuate from a hurricane like New Orleans can.
I only sort of agree. I think it really is warmed-over imperialism: bringing the light to the dark places of the earth is a pretty powerful motivation.
Of course it’s tied up with the desire to get rich. But following the money, as someone once said, doesn’t explain everything — only 90% of it.
Venezuela is a paper tiger!
-G
I know. I can’t keep up with ‘em. But then Wolcott also links me to piss off NTodd.
hell no! they come here!
Apparently NYC wasn’t always wonderful, according to reports. But I’ve lived there for over 3 decades, and have never felt unsafe. But maybe that’s me.
Hey G,howrya?
Ha, didn’t mean to launch a NYC vs. Houston rant. I’ll never get my very good Houston friend to join us at that rate.
Suzanne, you know what I meant when I asked.
Please. Pretty please?
One annoying thing is when we take the little ones to day care — we bundle them up for the 20-foot walk to the van, then we have to take the coats off so they can fit in their car seats.
They’re cute at this age, but I’ll be a happy guy when they can dress themselves…
Had to go somewhere close. And a ton were fuckin sent there. Oakland got a lot of folks from New Orleans. They were family. During WW2 the shipyard workers moved from New Orleans to SF. Cousins.
Don’t fucking get me started on Katrina.
I’m alright. I can handle it. Really.
I live in Grand Blanc, MI. I left Buffalo in 1962.
I’m an old timer at this struggle. As a teenager in the early 70’s we had a small chapter of John Sinclairs’ White Panther Party (in solidarity with the Black Panthers-the term White Panther confuses people who aren’t aware of those times) and a friends older brother who was a Vietnam Vet got us involved. We passed out flyers at free concerts in the park and put up antiwar posters all over town. I really thought things were going to change for the better but we were young and naive. Admittedly I slacked off for awhile, got complacent, but now I have a beautiful grandaughter and I need to try to make things better for her.
demi-
Suzanne is on a break right now.
Is there something I can answer for you?
I don’t think the imperialism is warmed over. What is imperialism? Who benefits? Who pays the price? Augustus had to keep numerous legions in the occupied countries to keep the flow of resources, i.e., treasure and slaves, going to Rome. Today we use free market enterprise.
well of to work on my website…see yall later,nite ,nite ,sleep tight
Coming in late – what happened to Kirk Murphy’s post. I went to read Ian’s post, then was coming back to read Kirk’s and it’s disappeared. Kirk, where are you?
Greenperson!!!!
I accused a friend today of listening to Pox News or its radio equivalent at work. She called to tell me there had been an earthquake in Oregon this morning. My parents are there visiting my sister. There was no mention of an earthquake anywhere in the news. Later I asked my sister about it and she (being an environmental scientist) had to go to one of her monitoring sites to see that said quake occurred 100 kilometers out to sea and 10 kilometers down in the earth. It was 5.9, with several sizable aftershocks, but with that location there was nothing it effected.
What I want to know is what sorry news outlet was trying to scare people, especially the ones who get all their news from TV and Radio? Is it just a race to be first, just in case it was “the big one”? (I am also annoyed at my friend. She is so gullible to start with, but that is another story . . .)
Sadlyyes…..fine.
Still trying to figure out if Bush thinks that he’s doing a favor to US soliders by sending them on mulitiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan.
You know giving ‘em extra bites at the romantic apple.
This nation is being led by a nut.
-G
(((mary mcc)))
Well, I guess that’s answer enough.
I think my question was fairly clear the first time.
Left in exactly the same year, to go to college, so I am 6 years older than you. I loved growing up in Buffalo, but never wanted to return when I found out what the rest of the world had to offer.
Refresh and see if it is back…
Salmon Post back when I reloaded blog just now.
(((TexB)))!!
Do you remember the science museum, Kleinhan’s music hall (sp?), Chestnut Ridge?
I am sorry, demi. I missed your question…
Feel free to restate.
Guess not. :(
I mean specifically 19th century imperialism, chiefly British. A lot of the rhetoric from that period is pretty much the same as it is now. And while I have enough Fenian in me to make me grit my teeth when I say it, Bush is just a hell of a lot worse at it than the British were. It took over a century for Britain’s imperialism to send it into the crapper, and it looks right now like we won’t have anything like that much time…
Oh yes, remember them all. email me at rosannecahn at aol dot com and I’ll forward you an email I just got from one of my high school classmates who still lives there & is a “Buffalo Booster.” Very much fun.
What I really liked about Buffalo was that I could ride my bicycle anywhere around age 10, and was therefore completely independent.
Reading, at recommendation of a forgotten FDL commentor, After Tamerlane–The Glocal History of Empire after 1405. Very informative about repetitive nature of what empires claim, superiority being the primary export.
Thanks for modding — I hope my reference to 9/11 theories isn’t causing too many headaches…?
move to california or central texas or somewhere with lots of firepups?
Ah, c’mon, you don’t miss anything. *g*
(but, Me at #56.)
I had a bad night. Dinner out with friends. Obama is not doing well. He was hurt badly this week. My friends are a mixture of those that follow politics casually and some that watch FoxNews (though they say, wrongly, that it doesn’t influence them). Lots of talk about Wright, nobody concerned about Hagee. Mention Hillary and there was a collective ‘ugh’. We need to raise McCain’s negatives. Nobody in this group supports Bush but they have a somewhat positive feeling towards McCain. I did my best, but, believe me, we have a problem.
Ice pack applied.
All good, Thers.
Aaaah yess, dear LurkingMod, it’s baaaack now, thank you.
Hi Darlin’,
How you be?
‘allo…
Who wrote that? Sounds cool.
My degree is in Irish cultural history, so I kind of look at the imperial project with a bit of, uh, skepticism.
Hell, I think if you read Conrad’s Heart of Darkness, you would have known where this war was going back when it was first “marketed.”
NYC in the 1980s was really rough…crack came on the scene around 1985. The city was quite unsafe, culminating in the rape of the Central Park jogger in 1989. We moved out of the city with our 9-month-old daughter that same year. Didn’t want to raise her in the city. Several of our friends in our situation alos moved out about that time…
I lived in Grand Blanc long ago. A subdivision called Ottawa Hills. Wow, memories…
Hee hee. Thanks.
I see it now.
No permission slip required.
Civil tongue and a thirst for information are all that are required.
I visited NYC the summer before last with my daughter. I felt entirely safe the whole time. What a beautiful, amazing place. Ground zero was cleaned up, but nothing but the trains running. How is the construction coming along?
I am not an Obama fan, but I’ll note that he must figure out how to respond to the negatives. Otherwise he’ll end up on the trash heap of history along with Al Gore and John Kerry.
Texteen was NYCBaby and NYCpreschooler until we came to Texas when he was 4. This is a better place to raise a child in many respects, but I miss the museums and the Bronx zoo.
Most middle of the road folks who don’t follow politics that closely look at McCain as a really swell guy. A maverick and a wink and nod centrist.
Not true, but that’s the opinion.
-G
One out of two, is sufficient, right? ;-)
I guess I missed something this week – what hurt Obama?
I’m not in Obama’s camp either. I don’t care who gets the nomination. But the dems have to win and our candidates have sizable ‘negatives’ and McCain is viewed positively.
then they need to be educated
Obama is going to do well. Here’s the portion of his speech today where he dealt with this issue:
http://thepage.time.com/obamas…..town-hall/
And here’s the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0srV-ZxSYg
He’s a remarkable politician.
TexBetsy… just on a long-term bidness trip out here, actually living in the Carolinas and part time in TN right now…and “working” in NY.
“The Double-Talk Express”?
I don’t know where Ottawa Hills is. Is it near Indian Hills?
cute!
I grew up in NY — actually commuted from Queens to Manhattan for high school in the 1980s.
The city of that era had a lot going on, actually. You could actually not be obscenely rich and live there, there was a great musical scene downtown… a lot of NYC hadn’t been turned into a corporate playground. I miss the NYC attitude of that period.
John Darwin (don’t know if there’s any relation, LOL).
It’s dense cause there’s 1.2 years of global history/page on average, so a slow read. But some good insights, written from the POV of the winner (so to speak, if Brittain is still regarded as the winner), so read with all the usual caveats
http://www.amazon.com/After-Ta…..038;sr=1-1
I think a warm heart helps too.
(Hi CT)
BTW, I have a new ploy. Anyone who mentions McCain to me, I just shake my head and say ‘too dirty’. “He’s like Spitzer, everything he rails against he’s guilty of. Too Dirty.”
Amen, Ma’am! And the maverick label is the first to go…!
McCain has a lot, I mean a lot, of stuff he can be slammed with. He’s vulnerable. It’s still early, give it time.
There are negative attacks, and there are pitches in the dirt…
What is going on now must be answered, but indirectly, by pointing out the immaturity and cravenness of the attackers, IMO.
He’s holding his own I think.
Yeah, I’ve noticed a lot of people who don’t follow politics closely think McCain is sort of OK for a Puke. It’s hard to explain to them that he isn’t OK at all. I don’t remember who said that McCain has never seen a country he didn’t want to either bomb or invade.
nice – mind if i steal it?
Aloha, demi!
Remember CP jogger well, and have listened to her read her book on tape. Very impressive. Strangely, I never felt unsafe. I didn’t (and still wouldn’t) go alone into CP at night. But I’d go anywhere in any of the boroughs during daylight.
I was called to dinner so I didn’t respond.
I am good.
Did Token save a Redwood? ;-)
token saved a redwood and took off chasing a deer…. he’s currently sitting in the bad boy chair thinking about the error of his ways and how best to make nice with me again.
Many people do not realize how much McCain has changed. Need to explain to them that the new McCain is not the old McCain. He has renounced any reasonable policies he used to champion. Either that, or he has become a total liar in order to appease the wingnuts of his party. Neither is good for the kind of traditional good-government independent moderate conservatives who have liked McCain in the past.
I don’t think that Obama is hurt that badly. He is still picking up super delegates.
This isn’t far from your place:
Please, steal it. This bull has to stop. The Airbus business should be front page and nobody knows about it.
Evening Suz!
And you were thinking “venison…”
The old McCain was a dickhead only more covert about it.
why – thank you ma’am – and I’m thinkin’ that it’s time to get this party started:
Cranberries -Zom-beeee!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-s53IEAf4w
goddamned Dolores – another one who never returns my calls or letters…. *g*
Need to list all of the “old-McCain” advantages that McCain has himself denounced, renounced or abandoned.
As for Obama — remember he already did have a run-in with McCain. When McCain wrote that letter slamming him over some alleged dishonesty?
Obama won that handily, letting McCain come off as the bad guy.
I’m cynical as hell about all politicians, but Obama does have skills. That was a pretty revealing episode, especially in retrospect.
let’s just say the air was blue and he ran into the house with his tail between his legs
the deer escaped – long legs always win over short legs
Ballsy little bugger, eh? A deer must be 200 times his size…! *g*
True. I would have never voted for the old McCain, who was always more PR than substance. But I am talking how to argue with people who bought into the old McCain in the first place. I know many of them myself. Some of them very well meaning and sensible people.
jayt’s up! What a shocker.
I was also told tonight that Obama plans to raise taxes 9 trillion dollars in the next 8 years. This was from the FoxNews person. The one who says she isn’t swayed by their propaganda.
Like I said, very bad nght.
Agreed!
And I’ll bet this “nine-pound category” classification is generous.
Tough little guy.
snipped actually ct (laughing) but you would not know that from the way he sleeps on his back with his legs spread for all to see the nothing that is there.
There are those who would mess with Suzanne?
Weird. *I* wouldn’t.
Glad to hear it.
Fab-u-lous.
anyone hungry?
They just need some education about McCain. I’m sure that’s forthcoming. I don’t see Dean as a lay down kinda guy!
“How to talk to the people McCain’s fooled” would be a great post…
Hmmm…
I’m off to bed. I’ve been thinking that Hugh needs to create another list. One focusing on McCain.
Fox News people are already lost. This is about getting our people actually out to the polls to actually vote (which is how Rove beat us in 2004 with an unpopular president).
It will be a close race in the Electoral College. But McCain doesn’t inspire people to actually go and vote. I believe Obama will.
Damn, that mouse is scary! Pretty funny. Hey, Tex.
A lot of people took comfort in the media PR hype that McCain was a real independent and reformer -the idea that he stood for something. The Keating 5 is ancient history -it would be for me if knowing something about finance were not part of my job.
They take comfort in the PR hype that McCain stood for something good. Need to point out that McCain himself is trying to play a con -still pose as a maverick reformer to the mainstream, while posing as an extremist wingnut Bushite for the GOP base.
What he really is anymore, who knows? But if you can destroy that media cred convincingly, then they might listen.
The truth is, historically speakig wrt to actual policy proposals, Obama is the safe independent centrist on most domestic issues.
Heh, You’ve seen him, I’ll take your word for the generous part…!
my theme song
I suspect a lot of repubs will stay home.
Good evening, Late Niters.
Aloha, Solai! I’ll bet there will be plenty of overlap between the two…!
hi christine!
This bullshit about not paying taxes has to stop. I tell people they’re running up the tab on their children and they don’t have an answer. Money doesn’t grow on trees. Benedict Ronald convinced everyone they shouldn’t have to pay taxes and the idiots fucking believed that fucking senile movie star!
hi neuro.
Yes. I needed help on my facts tonight. Especially since FoxNews bullshit was being thrown at me. And, we all know, their talking points are fact-free.
But, I barely got to talk about mccain. I was put on defense from the start and I couldn’t get out of it.
Maybe point out that on tax policy, the Democratic candidates are the old McCain. The new McCain is for more of the same Cheney/Bush economic policies. Elect McSame McCain and you will get four more years of what you have seen over the last six months. That is a guarantee.
and dedicated especially to Suz – John Prine and Emmylou: and as usual, the vid sucks, just change windows and listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St9RvdtvLeE
*blushing* thanks jayt
I’m at 53 & Sutton Place, one block east of First. So four blocks away. I’m in the country. See my comment @17.
Okay, I’m really going to bed this time. See all tommorrow.
G’nite pups.
Snow under control here — mainly mountains in parking lots, 10 feet high and black with pollution. Just disgusting. I hate March in Cleveland.
Never get put on defense. Never ever. Stand your ground and state the facts calmly, objectively correct the BS they have been fed. Don’t throw any attitude at your friends who have been hoodwinked. But stand your ground, and those who have open minds will respect you and listen.
I converted a die hard McSame McCainite recently. It can be done.
Watching Elton John on Larry King right now.
He just said something like rejection is the hardest thing to take.
*waving g’nite to the leaving sleepy pups*
evening all!
Hee hee.
I was thinking this.
anyone ever heard of this girl?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5WqPSDvjoA
nite riesz
nite selise
hahahahaha
Working on it.
If another FDLer doesn’t get to it I’ll try my hand next week. Also chez moi we’re going to go full-on after McCain, so check it out if you want.
Hi everyone…. whats up?
married to derek trucks… great forking singer… love her
My experience is that a lot of centrist McCain supporters are not really invested in McCain himself, but what McCain supposedly stood for.
That was always more media hype than fact, but now, it is nothing at all. Even if McCain is lying when he panders to the GOP wingnuts, it shoots his straight talk maverick cred to Hell.
I think biggest problem with centrist McCain supporters is the difficulty in dealing with their own disillusionment about politics. The media fantasy McCain helps them remain high minded voters with integrity. It is a fantasy that makes them feel good. That is my impression of many moderate and centrist McCain supporters I know.
Wait! I have a McCain quiz for the next thread if Suz gives me the okay.
wrt McCain
(bold mine)
http://www.informationclearing…..e19534.htm
jayt, here’s a good one from susan – lousy video but great song
thers’ thread – he overrides me on permissions loohoo
she played the wedding dance for a friends son in a blues dive in St.Paul a few years ago. i missed it:(
Q. How long does it take John McCain to screw in a lightbulb?
A. 100 years
oh my!
mccain sounds like a madman.
Yeah, that kind of empty straight talk appeals to goo-goo types who long for purity, independence and total integrity in politics, who do not want to face the reality of interest groups, complexity and trade-offs, and the messy reality of life. Like whatshisname -Perot. ‘Damn it, if we’d all just be moderate and reaonable and just sit down and SOVLE these damn problems, they would be SOLVED!’
It’s total bullshit. But the fantasy and magical thinking appeals to a certain sort of self-identified high minded independent who considers themself above dirty politics.
Here’s a voice that has been silenced too soon…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWx7zv24vCI
I meant next thread.
Hey that is my Greek joke…. how many years does it take a Greek to screw in a light bulb?
A: 1000 years….
McBush is a madman… so glad that others are finding that out
Bernard Allison was also there. the bride ran a joint called the Blues Saloon in ST.P and is/was their booking agent or something like that.
off topic is the topic loohoo – no permission needed at all
i missed it:
ooh – that’s gotta hurt….
how the heck did ya manage to miss a party in a “blues dive”?
We obviously need to talk. Did I ever tell ya about the witch’s wedding that I went to?
now forever young
i was driving otr and probably a thousand miles away.
Need to sum up the situation succinctly: “Look, dude, whatever he was once, he’s become a pandering fraud. There is no telling what the guy will do.” Then tick off all of his recent flip flops.
And point out that he has gone batshit insane on military policy.
And having been a flyboy once, even if one who had to make a tragic sacrifice for his country, does not make him an expert on foreign policy or defense or national security. There are thousands of flyboys (and now flygirls) around the country. So what?
A good place to start would be his insane attempt to ban the Ultimate Fighting Championships.
You kidding? LooHoo is always cool.
Actually, it would take McCain longer than 100 years due to some disabilities…
thers, i thought she was looking for permission from me to put something on your thread. it was a misunderstanding and she was talking about my late late nite post.
Hey Loo Hoo.
Hope your are happy and well.
And, now, I will civilly say Ta to All. For tonight, I mean.
LooHoo has good mojo.
Tying McCain to Bush is my favorite tactic. People who think Bush has done a good job are a lost cause anyway.
On flip flops, his flip flop about the Bush tax cuts is probably one of the best to talk about because McCain’s first statements about them were so true.
yep – used to try to time that one fot the arrival of my mail-
man, umm,personGIRL, goddammit!!. Let’s just say that the “mail” never got delivered, so to speak….I know. ‘S late for me, tho.
Nite, all.
Okay then, here goes. I didn’t make up this quiz, but will tell you where I got it at the end.
What did Richard Kimball, John McCain’s opponent in his 1986 Senate race, do during a debate that got McCain so upset that, according to his aide Jay Smith, he “wanted to kill” Kimball?
Course, this is the tune that made me fall in love with her… I did have the good fortune to see her in concert once…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
Also very important to point out that the media about making money these days. The folks they see on TV are running the news and combo sitcom/reality show. Each network needs to produce a storyline that they think will hook the best demographic and keep them tuned in.
So you get ignorant showbiz foruth string vaudeville gasbags framing storylines.
Obama’s domestic policies are centrist. They have a lot more in common with the media fantasy of the old McCain than anything true about the new lying and pandering McSame McCain.
g’nite thers
jayt, i believe the term you are looking for is letter carrier
Aloha, Thers! Mahalo for the great post!
wasn’t it mention his divorce from the first mrs because of the hanky panky with the future second mrs?
Who is Harry Jaffe?
(now if this is too tough, I can give you guys the multiple choice selections in an abbreviated form.)
another suspect in the immaculate conception?
selise @ 240 and wesgpc @ 241– yes and yes.
things might have been solved (a la Perot) had we not starved, bombed to smithereens, or lied our way into the hell(s) that we foisted on millions of innocents. but when the fearmongers monger so well…..
that sitting down thing is so outmoded, you know.
diplomacy — d.o.a. by the u.s.a.
sickening.
wasn’t he the guy who called mccain senator hothead? (just call me cliff clavin)
Good night, Thers and other sleepy pups!
And no, Suz, but that was one of the choices. I can give the multiple choice answers if you want.
Ok, I’m so unaware of the political past that I thought Richard Kimball was the doctor in The Fugitive.”
Tell the reasonable McCain supporters that the current real Obama is the old McCain. (don’t intend to piss off any Obama supporters. I believe that to be fact, and is not an insult to Obama, especailly since I am talking about the old media fantasy McCain, not the real old McCain)
The new McCain is the same old Bush. The new McCain turned his back on the old McCain and became the same old Bush to win elections without taking risks of really being a maverick straight talking Republican.
I believe those are the facts. Anyway, maybe that is a good approach to the reasonable, and deluded McCain supporters.
And I like Obama just fine.
Ding, ding, ding!!! Suz scores one.
dayam, thought i had gotten one right
Oooh Noooo, ya didn’t…! Bwhahaha…! 8-)
what did i win?
See, you are about as aware as I am!
i believe the term you are looking for is letter carrier…
and she did it *so* well…. *s*
You civil servants gotta stick together…
One point. (It works with 5th graders!)
And I loved him, man!
well, my back up is done… so i’m off to bed. nite all!
luckily for you i’m not in 5th anymore – that was a terrible year (laughing)
ishouldn’t have. but i did!!
so glad you’re avoiding being a statistic…
“lost my data…” *sobs*
nite selise
What prompted Jon Stewart to ask, “Has John McCain’s Straight Talk Express been re-routed through Bullshit Town?”?
Aloha, Selise! We’re doomed to repeats for the next two weeks on C-span…!
niters, selise.
Wow, you learn something new everyday. I had never heard of the white panthers (awesome).
Evening pups, had a lil at home spa day (no garden work today, the wind was fierce here, it even took down part of a large pine tree across from us), read through Kirk and Ian’s post and now I’m here really needing a drink. So I just want to know…
whose bartending?
A commenter here (not me) coined the phrase ‘Bullshit Local” to replace McCain’s ’straight talk express’. Does Stewart read FDL?
I am still campaigning for my ‘the straight talk is crock’ but it doesn’t seem to have caught on.
They changed their name to the “Rainbow peoples party”at one time as to include all colors. If you google or whatever John Sinclairs name you will get all the info. He got busted in Michigan for possesion of two joints and received a ten year sentencew which prompted John Lennon to write a song “Ten for Two” on his New York al bum.
putrescent is right. Wolfie and the whole rotten gang of them. They are too stupid to even know that their thieving warmaking strategems won’t work anymore. The planet is dying and it is all so pointless. Their thieving will benefit no one because they are thieving the life right out of the planet. And a dead planet cannot support anyone — not the poor and not the rich either. We’re all headed for a common grave. They’ve killed all the cool animals and laid waste to the planet. Just a big scorching monoculture now, that’s what we have reduced the planet to. Isn’t that sad and sickening? No more polar bears, no more Tasmanian Devils, no more Siberian tigers, no more salmon, and on and on and on. No more humanity, either. Just look at the loss of empathy because of the war and the stain of torture. We are just destroying life. Our own and that of the planet.
Humanity has been reduced to consumerism and amusement. We are truly amusing ourselves to death. Look at the colossal waste of humanity at the mall. The thousands of malls across Murca. Think of it. All the mindless soulless Murcans shopping in the death zones of flourescent lights and endless aisles of worthless plastic crap. Just sucking the life right out of the planet. Sucking up the biodiversity and spewing out plastic crap at the mall. That’s about it, folks. That’s all she wrote. Humanity and Mother Earth sharing a common fate — to be consumed and reduced to a crass monoculture of blank faced flacidity.
Not sure you will see this — I had gone to bed by the time you replied. Will try to catch you on a later thread.
Ottawa Hills is a subdivision roughly at the southeast corner of Hill and Fenton, just west of I-475. We lived there only about three years in the mid-70s.