Yesterday we celebrated that the Democratic leadership in the House was able to hold nearly the whole caucus together to pass an updated FISA law stripping out Bush’s absurd and venal demands for retroactive immunity. And they managed to do that even after nearly two dozen of them had written a letter to the Speaker telling her that they demanded the opportunity to go on record in favor of retroactive immunity. Only 12 Democrats voted with the Republicans and half of them did so to protest that the bill was still too weighted in favor of the Bush Regime’s unconstitutional agenda.
For those of us who follow the foibles of treacherous reactionary Democrats — the Blue Dogs and Bush Dogs — all the names are familiar: David Boren (D-OK), Chris Carney (D-PA), Jim Cooper (D-TN), Tim Holden (D-PA), Nick Lampson (D-TX), and Heath Shuler (D-NC). Last time I checked, out of the 6 Bush Dogs who had signed the original letter to Pelosi that we were asking the community to vote on so we could target one district for an educational campaign, Carney and Shuler were coming in, respectively, #1 and #2. The 4 others fled from retroactive immunity in terror.
Our experience with Blue Dogs and Bush Dogs is that when you roll up a magazine and smack them firmly in the snout and then rub said snout in their mess, they eventually learn.
We were very successful in assisting our pals in the House leadership to convince some banditos to get back on the reservation when it came to S-CHIP last year. Once conservative Democrats like Leonard Boswell and Jim Marshall, who normally act as though being bipartisan means rubber stamping every diktat that comes down the pike from Pennsylvania Avenue, starting speaking in favor of the House bill, the Republicans knew the gig was up.
But what the DLC and Republicans (and most Blue Dogs) want is a bill that caves to all Bush’s demands for warrantless wiretaps and retroactive immunity, basically, the shameful bill the Senate passed last month 68-29. What happens now is a conference with the Senate to hammer out a compromise.
So why did almost all the Blue Dogs support the House bill? They know it will never become law. Even if it ever managed to pass the Senate — almost impossible — Bush has vowed to veto it. So what happened? Sources in the House tell me that Pelosi, Hoyer and Emanuel promised the Blue Dogs that they would be on the reconciliation committee with the Senate charged with hammering out a compromise.
The House Senate bill overturns the rule of law by granting probable criminals retroactive immunity. The House bill doesn’t.
The Senate bill is fine with warrantless wiretaps. The House bill isn’t.
In the Senate 18 Democrats voted with the Republicans and Lieberman to grant retroactive immunity and to enshrine warrantless wiretaps into law. Almost none are up for re-election this year. The exceptions are Mark Pryor of Arkansas (who has no primary or general election challenger), Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, and, leader of the bad Democrats on this, Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia. What should our community do about this?
Related posts:
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- GOP Will Target Blue Dogs Who Vote “Yes” on IMF, Senior Republican Campaign Official Confirms
- AFL-CIO Threatens to Cut Aid to ConservaDems Who Don’t Vote for Health Care
- Waxman: Blue Dogs Trying to “Eviscerate” Health Care
- Red State Targets Blue Dogs Who Vote for IMF Bailout
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Hi Howie
More and better Democrats! But you do that already. Thanks!!
Good morning (afternoon). I don’t have a candidate today– but next week I’ll make it up with a really amazing one– so Jane suggested we talk about FISA and congressional caucus discipline. In fact, I added a couple of paragraphs at the end of my story at DownWithTyranny about House discipline– and lack thereof when it comes to Blue Dogs. And I used different artwork.
hi Howie…
These days I’m just leave the “more” part to the DCCC and trying to concentrate on the “better” component. I have the feeling that most of this community feels similarly. It differentiates us from some of the other blog communities.
How about flooding their DeeCee offices with pocket constitutions?
With letters asking them to remember their Oath of Office to uphold and defend the constitution. This would be like the rubber stamp & Crashing the Gate events.
Hi! Did you vote in the Blue America poll?
Looking forward to another afternoon with Howard Shanker AZ CD-01…
BTW…. going to send you an email about another candidate ….
Make damn sure that every one of them has a challenge from an authentic progressive Democrat within the next cycle or two.
Wasn’t Carney a “Blue America” candidate? He should be singled out and defeated first if he was… no ifs ands or buts.
Why don’t we ask them why they are Dems and what it means to be a Dem? Ask them what the Democratic Party stands for and if they are doing what they can to see that those goals are reached. Seems like fair questions to me.
Let’s get Carney now.
Why not tell Jello Jay’s constituents how he’s selling out our Constitutional rights one amendment at a time? If he’ll trample on our rights enshrined in the Fourth Amendment, maybe he’ll come for West Virginians’ gun rights in the Second Amendment next time.
You never know.
Hi Howie!
Hi Howie, If Carney got the most votes I finally backed a winner (loser?)
That’s a great idea! And Jane and I are meeting with the new president of People For the American Way in two weeks and that’s the organization that manufactured thousands of customized pocket consitutions a couple years ago for an initiative they took. We should look into doing something similar.
Maybe a peek at this graphic would help tip the Senators without challengers? Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 words kind of thing. Even Germany is better than we are at safe guarding privacy.
I think that actually there will have to be action/protests in the streets before the Senators wake up and figure out what exactly they have been doing.
I agree 100% and we have already made Carney wish he had never met us (and never lied to us to get our money). The local newspapers talk about his dispute with Blue America often. I might add, he has gotten a lot of votes in this poll we’re doing and he will probably win. If he does, what do you think we should do with the $50,000 we raised? Radio spots, robocalls, TV spots, newspaper ads? Any suggestions?
In a related topic, my congressman and two senators almost never respond to my email, could they hire some more workers to read and meaningfully respond to constituents. Environment, electricty in Baghdad, cutting other government programs to save Social Security and Medicare, they respond to nothing.
Some signs now up in the east bay and a bit of troll deconstruction:
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ction.html
I can’t help it, I love my trolls…
That’s pretty scary company we’re in!!
Barrow is a fucking skunk no matter what he did yesterday.
Robocalls would probably just piss a lot of people off – at the callers, I mean. TV is most effective but also by far the most expensive.
My $.02
I think radio ads and robo calls would bring best bang for the buck/stretch the dollars further.
He is the one we could actually defeat. The DCCC and the Democratic Party (and the fine folks at some of the other blogs) would probably hate us forever if we actually went after Barrow and inadvertently helped a Republican get elected. What do you think? Same question applies to Mary Landrieu.
Howie, if it were me, I would take some of that $50,000 and run a campaign against Carney pointing out how a guy who takes money to get elected and then turns his back on his word can’t be trusted. Nothing gets people’s attention like someone who is provably untrustworthy, which Carney is.
“Chris Carney, he’ll take your money and lie about it would you let him [date your daughter] [watch your valuables] [babysit your kids]… (fill in the blank)…” I mean really, everyone knows politicians are slimy, here’s one that can’t slither away from his own bad actions without leaving a snail-trail of slime.
Our experience with robocalls surprised us. They actually worked pretty well and we didn’t get any bad pushback. That was counterintuitive for me because, like you, I had some negative feelings about using them.
Great post Howie, thanks!
I would love to see Blue America target Jello Jay. He’s been the Democratic poster boy for retroactive immunity and he’s a member of the Dem leadership. I think we should focus a lot of energy on him to get the attention of the rest of the Dem leadership to see if we can convince them that supporting a progressive agenda is in their best interest.
Does Rockefeller have a primary challenger? If so, do they deserve our support?
Oh, and I’d go with radio spots on Rush and Fox, right where Carney’s supporters seem to be…
I really hate robo calls and hang up as soon as I hear what it is.
You go after the worst of the worst in the Senate: Rockefeller. He is the posterboy for telecom payola and anti-Constitution, pro-Bush sycophancy. He must be targeted. He must be attacked. He must be unseated if at all possible, even if that means he gets replaced by just another Republican (of which he is one).
Take out Rockefeller (or make his election life HELL) and you begin to send a CLEAR message to the NEXT target on the list: Landrieu.
Hey freeway, If your troll did go out on a friday night, he’d only come home with the newspaper under his arm. Heh.
I always emphasize that when I write about him– so have no fears
He has no primary challenger and barely has a Republican one. We can’t effect his re-election. The only senate race we could be effective in– if anywhere– is Louisiana
Excellent idea– although I hate giving Fox any ad revenue
That’s interesting, was going by my own reaction to what I consider an invasion of privacy.
The only real way to have the desired effect is to support primary opponents, assuming we can find them.
…and when he walks through the door of his place, he immediately puts the newspaper on the floor to pee on it. LOL
Some people…I don’t get it.
Robocalls CANNOT work on me or my wife. The INSTANT we get any hint that the call is asking for political money or is a robo – dialtone. We hang up. Don’t waste any time (unless it is to tell the DCCC or DSCC rep to NEVER EVER call again…we ONLY give money to specific candidates of our choice, NEVER to the corrupt and lying party). How can robocalls work? I really don’t understand. People actually will sit there and listen to a recording drone on in their ear in the middle of dinner or while they are trying to watch American Idol?
I’d be careful about setting my “get even” sights on a democratic senator.
Do we really want a re-do of Lieberman? Losing the committee gavels is not worth the chance.
To paraphrase, “It’s the gavels, stoopid”.
me no likey
as far as I’m concerned, this bill IS the compromise, I do NOT want to compromise from the compromise
Got me good Kay. Coffee: keyboard and monitor.
As far as I’m concerned, these traitorous (literal meaning of the word, not the perjorative) GOPers in Dem clothing might as well be replaced with REAL GOPers, so I say, so long as they have a general election challenger, go after them and make them defend themselves to their own so-called party AND against the OTHER party. They need to be attacked from BOTH sides (from the TRUE Democrat side and from the GOP side).
I have the same reaction you do. I ALWAYS hang up as soon as I detect it’s a robo call, regardless of what it’s for. Other people seem to relish getting them. I know this is hard to believe but who would think anyone would be stoopid enough to want to watch Fox or listen to Limbaugh or “read” an Ann Coulter book?
I count 19? Baucus (up for re-election this year), Bayh, Carper, Casey, Conrad, Inouye, Johnson, Kohl, Landrieu, Lincoln, McCaskill, Mikulski, both Nelsons, Pryor, Rockefeller, Salazar, Webb, and Whitehouse.
Gut reaction: Whitehouse is persuadable and/or already willing to go for whatever he thinks is the best bill that will pass?
Jello Jay deserves a hefty dose of the Jane Harman treatment.
You found the key line in the story. Congratulations!
I was afraid of that. Who is challenging Landrieu?
I can empathize, but I think we need to worry about retaining control of the House and Senate, like Cheviteau says at #36. The Blue Dogs vote right when it really counts, organizing the houses of Congress.
That, of course, is the rub. Since he left Athens I have been glad I haven’t had to look at him so that has been a plus. Of course, for me, this is the same argument about voting for Hillary.
You intend to spend 50k on Carney? That’s a lotta dough. IF so, consider a targeted local cable buy. ALSO – I think a targeted LTE (Letter to the Editor) campaign that blankets every local paper in his district would go a long way…
Let’s review TRex’s “LTE Primer” and really go to town! Maybe coordinate our efforts to land in the same week as a full-page ad.
Oh, like I told Howie – we could just contact some less-than-honorable novelty-making company in china and order up a few cases of fake “Blue doggy doo” and send them along to the DC Offices…
can we make some key line pie?
comes fromr key west
Another reactionary Democrat who Rove just talked into switching parties so he can run as a Republican
Jane called me yesterday and asked me to ask you if you could come up with a media plan for the district. (I forgot; thanks for reminding me.)
Sorry about that. Just had to point out that all trolls are alike. ;-)
Perhaps we should draw up an add that maps their contributions from the telcos to their vote and ask the question: Who’s security are they ensuring after all? Publish their numbers and ask people to call them. Then run the ad the states where the mapping is most blatant and the ad buy is most affordable.
Great post Howie!
On an individual level I’ve been thinking about increasing the use of aggregators (blogs, social networks and bookmarking sites) to increase internet awareness of lockstep voting and the ramifications therein.
Any tips on collecting information on DLC and blue dog dems is appreciated. I thinking maybe a combination of opencongress and google alerts.
I like this idea.
THAT agreement tells me all I need to know. The whole thing IS theater and nothing else. You KNOW that with Emmanuel involved, that the intent all along was, and is, to give immunity. They just found a sneaky way to get immunity passed while also trying to claim that they “tried their best NOT to give immunity”.
Bullshit. The WANT immunity and saw a way to pull the wool over the base’s eyes yet again. They have given themselves some cover by being able to vote properly in a public manner with the FULL intent of going the other way in the hidden conference.
I never trusted Pelosi or Hoyer to do the right thing for the reason that is the right thing. They are playing us and, sadly, it worked. Most of you will be more than happy to vote for all the evil ones in the Fall even after they cave in conference (caving has ALWAYS been the plan).
I have a set of triggers. If any one of them goes off that’s it. I vote AGAINST all Dems across the board. Immunity is one of those triggers. If the FISA update had passed with immunity in it, that would have set off the trigger to “vote against Democrats”. If immunity passes through conference, then that also sets off the trigger and I vote against Democrats.
I don’t have to vote for these criminals and cowards and ONLY will if they do the right thing on ALL the most important issues in existence: the Constitution and liberty, on the illegal occupation of Iraq, and on ANY military attacks anywhere else.
I’ve been debating sitting out the election entirely for the first time in my life. The recent House FISA vote made me reconsider. If they throw it all away in conference then I will vote in the fall, but not for them, but AGAINST them. At this point, as far as I’m concerned, there would be nothing left to lose and the whole rotting bag of shit that is the USA today is beyond fixing.
So it sounds like we got nothin’ to work with in the Senate this fall then, eh? Are there any progressive challengers to Bush Dog Dems in the House whose races we still have time to influence for this fall?
The other thing we need to start thinking about now is recruiting progressive challengers for 2010. Perhaps we can pick some key Senators and House members to target, then conduct a high-profile campaign to find someone else to challenge them. That might get the attention of the leadership…
Do you really think a compromise bill is going to be hammered out? I’m thinking that this issue is dead.
No the Blue Dogs do NOT vote the right way when it counts! No immunity counts and it simply looks like, with Pelosi’s deal with the scumbags, that they voted no on immunity on the floor ONLY so they could put immunity back in during conference. There is NO excuse for that and doing so totally erases any value they had on the floor in voting AGAINST immunity. The end result is ALL that matters – and their roll in obtaining that end result.
Blue Dogs do NOT vote the right way on choice, taxes, the war, or liberty.
I love it. Are you going to do that research?
t’s all about strategy.
I’m not certain just aiming at the congresscritter will be effect, though deserved. I’ll bet some would be reelected anyway, like Landreau. I don’t know enough about Rockefeller’s demographics to know if it would make a difference to his supporters.
My opinion: The demographics and Blue Dog Democrat has to be at a fair degree of odds. His constituents are pissed off with him/her. It may not be all but enough to support an uprising. Otherwise, outsiders are trying to influence election that’s the business of locals. Locals often rally around their guy, no matter how bad, when annoyed by outsiders. My guy right or wrong mentality.
We used to go through this with Tom Lantos. Outside support gave him money at election time and the Democratic machine thwarted all upcoming Democratic candidates. Thus, he kept his seat.
Who is the most vulnerable among the Blue/Bush Dogs? Who has frustrated constituents over the way he/she votes? This person may be the most strategic choice, especially considering funds and energy expenditures.
freeway blogger, that is an incredible good time I just had reading your blog
niceley done
FWIW, no one is off the hook on this until the final bill passes or dies. Yesterday was another round where we live to fight another day. That’s how it’s been since December. So if in the end, the Dems find a way to grant immunity, then the Dem leadership is fully responsible for it. And I will spend however long it takes to get each and every one of them out of office.
How’s that, Howie? Other than New Orleans with its devastated population, most of the state is ultra right wing. Republicans are too liberal for them. The Democratic base is depleted and the Republican base has strengthened. Think Mississippi for anything outside of New Orleans.
You know, any fight to punish a Blue Dog, be it ultimately targeted at Carney or whomever, should also always include broadsides against Emmanuel. Rahm is not a good guy. Ever.
Between FDL, OpenLeft and DownWithTyranny, we have them all covered– unless you want the kind of info you can find on OpenSecrets (about campaign contributions). I had some fun last night finding who accepted money from some of the most corrupt Republican’s PACs. The GOP is demanding everyone return Spitzer’s PAC’s contribution– and Kirtsen Gillibrand already did– so I decided to take a look at Vitter’s PAC and Doolittle’s PAC and Ted Stevens’ PAC, etc. It was interesting, the only PAC that got their donations rejected was Ted Stevens. Mitch McConnell and the 2 Utah senators returned the money he sent them. They must know what a crook he is!
Thanks
I’ll take a stab at it. I’ll post it at my site which has been getting moldy anyways. Give me a day or two.
So you’d rather go back to Republicans running the whole show, like 2003-2006?
“But what the DLC and Republicans (and most Blue Dogs) want is a bill that caves to all Bush’s demands for warrantless wiretaps and retroactive immunity, basically, the shameful bill the Senate passed last month 68-29. What happens now is a conference with the Senate to hammer out a compromise.”
Hillary Clinton is a member of the DLC Leadership Team.
We are thinking about this and especially looking for someone to go after Emanuel. We’re making progress. That will be our #1 priority
Hi Howie. In response to your 24: what does that say about “us” that robocalls work so well? Sadly, it says “we” are easily manipulated, believe far too much of what we’re told, and our analytical skills suck. However, the other side uses them and thus we are forced to counter that. I wish the Dems in DC would learn that lesson and fight back a whole lot harder than they do.
Nice set of TV ads run locally doing this. Sue if the stations won’t run it.
Billboards.
Letters to the editor of the local papers campaign….maybe if they get 10,000 letters it might sink in.
Boycott regional products…maybe not so good an idea for this
Get the word out about ’trampling rights’ FISA today guns tomorrow.
Really? I think the Democrats have a good shot at the Baton Rouge seat that just opened up with the retirement of Richard Baker. A lot of New Orleans refugees settle there.
Glad to hear it! It seems to me that we gave the leadership the benefit of the doubt for too long and they have totally taken advantage of us, and now we are too late to pose a serious threat to them this year. Sigh. I am not a patient person.
I hate to say it but believe it or not alot of n’orlins folks are still with bush
That’s not going to happen.
The best situation is when we can get behind a progressive Democrat ina primary and take out someone like Al Wynn. But if we help throw one seat– especially in the House– to the Republicans it will send a message that we mean business. And it isn’t going to effect the organization and leadership. The Democrats are probably going to pick up more than a dozen new House seats in November.
The “Third Way”, the DLC, HRC and the Bush family. What do these four ‘concepts’ have in common? The pursuit of money and power.
I know; it’s one of the negative in her column (in my book)
Let’s get Carney now.
Wow, ACitizen…
such great ideas, thought I’d repeat them :)
Nice set of TV ads run locally doing this. Sue if the stations won’t run it.
Billboards.
Letters to the editor of the local papers campaign….maybe if they get 10,000 letters it might sink in.
Boycott regional products…maybe not so good an idea for this
Get the word out about ’trampling rights’ FISA today guns tomorrow.
Yes, we’re supposed to be coming up with some realistic plans and suggestions here today that I can share with Jane and Amato and Digby and Greenwald next week. The specific stuff.
It’s the KING OF CATCH-PHRASE CALL-TO-ACTION GUY!
Hiya Teddy! :D nice to seeya.
I hadn’t though about a Billboard. That’s a great idea in a district like that (PA-10) where everyone drives everywhere.
Howie,
How about an ad that plays on Carney’s name. Most folks are aware that the old fashioned carnival barkers were a bit fast and loose with the truth and called “carnies” so just play the pun on how Chris Carney is so much like the carny barkers.
Let’s see now. HRC voted with Bush to go into Iraq. And she is a huge supporter of the DLC. I’m a Democrat and I oppose this individual to be our next president.
Wow, this week’s Bill Moyers is on again. . . I had to turn it off last night when my blood pressure went through the roof.
:(
waxman interview is fabulous but the stuff he’s uncovering is so egregious (sorry, egy) that it is hard to take all in one sitting sometimes.
I just thought of something else. I wonder if I can get Greenwald to do a video on Carney for our campaign. He asked Amato and Digby and I to come over and meet with him and give him some ideas.
And it’s quite a clash of cultures! I hear, “Look what they did to Baton Rouge. We need to take it back.”
An aside on Baker. After Hurricane Katrina, his office called me via my congresscritter in Nevada. Never have I heard so much anger as from his aides on the mess the Feds made in thier delayed response. He was mad about deregulation of the S&L’s that put people in the same position as my Mom – couldn’t withdraw a dime out of her account. They had no backup system. Baker put all his effort into correcting this so citizens could get their money. Within two days the situation was corrected. For that, I still thank him.
Bullseye.
Citizen beat me to it.
Media buying is an art in itself. Most people who do it right, no how to coordinate direct mail, radio, teevee, and “outdoor,” (billboards). It also changes depending on the locale.
I’m not advocating anything, just inviting “experts” who are lurking to volunteer their experience.
I happen to be coming around to the position that there is NO difference of any substantive degree between what we are getting from the Dems running Congress vs when the GOP runs the show.
To summarize:
The GOP in control means the GOP controls the agenda, what bills are voted on, what the bills contain.
The Dems in control means the GOP controls the agenda, what bills are voted on, what the bills contain (with FEW exceptions and usually only for show).
The GOP in control means Iraq continues onward.
The Dems in control means that Iraq continues onward.
The GOP in control means borrowing bazillions of dollars from China and Saudi Arabia to fund war.
The Dems in control means borrowing bazillions of dollars from China and Saudi Arabia to fund war.
The GOP in control means the insurance companies and big pharma runs our “healthcare” system.
The Dems in control means the insurance companies and big pharma runs our “healthcare” system.
The GOP in control means surveillance society (one of the worst in the world, by the way).
The Dems in control means surveillance society (one of the worst in the world, by the way).
The GOP in control means gutting reproductive choice (by putting through laws that restrict it, offering up judges that gut it).
The Dems in control means gutting reproductive choice (by rubberstamping any and all judges the GOP puts forth, voting for funding of abstinence only education, etc).
SAYING the right things counts for shit when the vote comes and the actual bill contains little or nothing of the pretty words spoken before. That is the main problem here. The Dems will SAY things they know we want to hear but then, when rubber meats road, they go the GOP way.
It doesn’t matter the path taken to get to the GOP-ish result. All that matters is that the result IS GOP-ish. You get that, so far, with GOP OR Dems in control. I must see real, final results to the contrary to move me. Promises and words don’t count for shit with me any longer. I give no slack, no wiggle room, no options but doing the RIGHT thing.
Too much has been sacrificed for so-called expedience. No more.
yeah, like that :) , good diging.
And Senator Clinton thinks McCain would make a better president than Senator Obama. Have you no decency, Ms. Clinton?
She’s terribly, terribly desperate. Beware of desperate people for they do desperate things.
That’s amazing. Right after I read that I opened by mail box and found this from an ad expert who offered to help us:
Not to worry! I chose the name because I *want* people to use it.
But remember, nothing that is uncovered merits real correction: impeachment.
NOTHING will change without it and since it will NOT happen (no matter what is uncovered), nothing will change…until it is too late and things take on a momentum of their own and the whole house of cards collapses under its rancid pile of crap.
It’s all just being ignored or swept under the rug as if that will work to prevent the same old shit from resurfacing the instant a bad President gets in office (be s/he Dem or Rethug).
Kiddo and I support Senator Obama to be our next president.
Lahoma
– What happens now is a conference with the Senate to hammer out a compromise. –
Not necessarily, although that’s one of three general possible paths. The other two are to extend the PAA — no retroactive immunity, but meaningless court checks on new snoop orders — or to pass amended versions back and forth, e.g., the Senate could send the House bill back to the House, but with a modified form of handing the pending court cases (i.e., not piercing state secret as a matter of defendant’s right).
If one chamber requests a conference, and the other agrees, both chambers still must vote and approve of the resulting conference report.
I don’t mind the Dems getting pissed at me. I’m pissed at them. I think it would make them sit up and take notice– we will dump bad Democrats even if it means electing more Republics.
PA is great hunting too.
I am of average intellect I suppose. But I can see right through John McCain and Hillary Clinton.
Ok, since you’re looking for practical suggestions…
My preference is for a mass mailing. I don’t think those are too expensive. Make sure to use a postcard format (lots of people won’t bother to open an envelope before they chuck it right in the trash/recycling bin). List the
highlowlights of Carney’s voting record. I would hate to spend the money on a TV buy. It won’t go very far and a lot of people won’t see it.After the mass mailings, if there is money left print yard signs and window signs (for folks in apartments without yards) with a simple message like “Can Carney”. No I don’t plan to quit the day job for a shot at an advertising career, but you get the idea…
So there you go, my two cents. I really do think grassroots within the district makes all the difference in the world, so if you can find Blue America supporters in Carney’s district to take the lead, that would be best.
I’m not sure impeachment wont happen yet. my rep was so against it until someone threatened to run against him in the next election. POOF! He signed kuchinich’s call to impeach cheney!
Hi Lahoma!
The race seems to have tightened considerably, from 8 points to one point.
Thanks.
Hello.
L.
Another (offtopic) point of info pls. I’m registered in FaceBook (albeit under a different accountname) and (under that accountname) I’m a member of the FDL FB Group. I’m wondering whether my “by-line” above in this FDL discussion thread will have the little f and if not, how I make that happen…? IOW, how are the FDL threads and the FB FDL Group connected, if at all?
If that’s that case, Pelosi is the one we should be going after. The only thing worse than a Bush Dog democrat is a Democratic House Speaker who would give that level of influence to a Bush Dog.
IMHO the Organizing Institute (formerly the Alinsky Institure) in Chicago is our best bet in helping identify a talented opponent to challenge Raum. FWIW I have a call into a fellow classmate for her thoughts. We were the first women activists admitted to the formerly “men only” and truly exraordinary organizing curriculum way back when and my friend enjoys legendary progressive success in Illinois and other midwest political campaigns. Stay tuned.
OK– let us know
what i want to know is this: is rush holt going to be on the conference committee?
if he’s not put on it, and the blue dogs are, then you know for sure the fix is in.
P.S. I LOVE the Billboard idea, that would be best of all I think…
You need to add your FB page link in your FDL acct. prefs.
National presidential polls are pointless.
There are many reasons I am angry with my Democratic Party. Nancy Pelosi, Rahm Emanuel, Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Hillary Clinton, Harold Ford and DiFi are among them.
Also, I’d be very interested to know which senators will be on that committee.
State governments resist ’sunshine laws’
AP – In New Jersey, the governor’s e-mails might shed light on whether he inappropriately conferred with a labor leader he once dated. In Detroit, the mayor’s text messages revealed a sexually charged scandal. In California, a fight rages for access to e-mails sent by a city councilwoman about a controversial biological laboratory.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ic_records
I do like the idea of getting people to think about the relation between 2nd and 4th amendment rights.
“on the comittee” doesn’t mean they are the only ones on the committee, they don’t have all that power and as long as they know we are watching I kind of doubt they would risk their jobs
Sometimes Hillary comes across as a blue dog.
I wouldn’t go that far, but I think they give an overall indication which direction things are going.
Just to add a though, although it’s probably clear to most. Assuming a baseline of the House bill, or any bill or amendment for that matter that contains an ”unacceptable” procedure for dealing with the currently pending court cases (just using immunity for example, same applies to any other aspect), a determined group of 41 Senators can prevent the change.
Unlike the events in the House, where there was a need to obtain majority support, the situation in the Senate is different. A minority of determined opposition to change is sufficient.
I think the old lists from when the Senate was debating S.2248 still hold, as to support/opposition to immunity. There are some interesting twists too, e.g., I think Specter can be counted on to want the cases to proceed, somehow, in the Court system; Whitehouse voted against the Dodd/Feingold immunity (strip Title II) but in favor of a substitution proposal; Feinstein liked the idea of conducting the trial in FISC instead of the ”normal” court system; etc.
The targets for attention are numerous, and somewhat difficult to predict because Senators tend to come up with their own solutions, and resist taking a position in any sort of ”either/or” contest.
they give an overall indication which direction things are going.
No they don’t. They are pointless noise, especially in March. People are living their daily lives, worrying about paying the bills, not paying attention to politics.
Tnx tw3k. OK, now that I’ve linked up & my “by-line” here shows the magic f, what bennies will I see? It appears that the FB FDL Discussion Board ne existe plus maintenant — IOW, no workie. Corrections and pointers to other places of FDL activity on FB welcome…?
– is rush holt going to be on the conference committee? –
AFAIK, there isn’t yet a formal call for a conference committee. The House bill is being sent to the Senate for its action. The Senate is nominally in the same spot the House was in three weeks ago, it can adopt the House bill as it stands, and that can be sent to the president.
I give about a 30% probability of this going to conference. If parliamentary process goes in that direction, there are a number of obstructive actions available to a determined objector in the Senate, such as demanding to vote on conferees rather than agree to having the chair name them. Obviously, that holds sway only in the Senate.
howie says up top–”Sources in the House tell me that Pelosi, Hoyer and Emanuel promised the Blue Dogs that they would be on the reconciliation committee with the Senate charged with hammering out a compromise.”
all of them? will be interesting to see what they want.
i think it’s disgusting to give a prize like that……over something this important…..p. u. on them if that is true.
i don’t understand why the money isn’t going to an opponent in the races for these turndogs. the ones who face challengers in their party in their district…….otherwise, what is the point? to have a republican replace them? i don’t see the point to that.
Tying the 4th and 2nd Amendments together would most likely work most effectively in Bush Dog country.
I’d like to remind people too, that illegal spying is NOT simply a violation of the 4th Amendment. It is also a violation of the 5th Amendment since they WILL use illegally obtained information to essentially render you guilty, using your words on the phone, in email, etc, against you. In a world where Bush (or any subsequent President thanks to Pelosi and Reid) can simply declare someone an “enemy combatant” or a “terra-ist” and have them picked up because of their words on the phone or in email and use those same words against them in a tribunal (or just as a justification for endless detention), illegal surveillance kinda renders the 5th Amendment moot wouldn’t you say?
Just to add, I give a 0% probability of the Senate agreeing to the House bill, as it stands, about 30% chance to passing it back to the House in amended form (get rid of the Commission, alter the handling of the pending cases in a “clever” way that looks like “not immunity” but is immunity in fact — sort of like the smoke and mirrors associated with the torture amendments), and a 40% chance of punting the issue to the 111th Congress by passing an extension of the odious PAA.
I just use FB as a news aggregator.
Start at the Firedoglake Group and make some friends.
you are welcome to befriend me, but I am not often there.
:D
Dr Dan the man!
Thanks, cboldt. That’s reassuring.
Sorry to repeat myself from yesterday, but my opinion is simply that we should figure out which of these people is the most vulnerable, and defeat them. The best choice is to defeat them and replace them with progressives, or at least with Republicans who have personal integrity. But defeat them. Make the rest look over their shoulders the next time they neglect their oaths.
Tnx again tw3k, and jacqrat. It loox to me like FDL’s foray into FB has been a failure.
As I predicted. I (speaking for myself only of course) see no value in participating. FDL is more than a network of friends talking with one another. But that appears to me to be all it has devolved into in FB. As I predicted it would.
Am/was I wrong? :)
yup, i’m in PA, enjoy hunting and know plenty of people that hunt.
Good point on how the ademndments are interrelated.
KO did a great job a while back making that point.
– The House bill is being sent to the Senate for its action. –
The operative language underlying the recent passage is “the House concurs in the Senate amendment, with a House amendment.”
In order for there to be a conference, one chamber or the other will take up a motion to communicate the presence of disagreement, rather than concurrence.
In the Senate, selection of conferees is a separate activity from concluding there is a disagreement, and deciding to ask for a conference.
At any rate, long story short, the House isn’t asking for a conference yet. Reid has made some UC requests to that effect — to recall the papers from the House, etc. I’d have to poke through recent Congressional records to find the Reid/McConnell exchange to that effect, but I think the UC request was made with a mind that it would certainly be rejected.
Some people seem to find FB to be of some value. ITR I see success.
I believe you are wrong. FB has allowed folks to get to know one another in an environment away from the political universe and to connect with each other directly. I know it has allowed the So Central Texas folks to meet up and also allowed others to share information.
i understand that… but that wasn’t my issue – it was in response to pelosi telling the blue dogs that if there is a conference committee, they will be on it. has she made a similar promise with regards to holt? if not, or if there is a conference committee and he’s not on it (but the blue dogs are) – i will judge the house leadership to be playing games with us.
that is all.
– has she made a similar promise with regards to holt? –
Your point is right on the money. I just wanted to dispel the thought that a conference committee was “a done deal” as between the House and Senate, and lay out that the House hasn’t asked for one.
Sorry, please explain the ITR abbreviation…
“Friending” folks and chatting back & forth isn’t for me. There’s better tools out there for finding potential meetup folks in RealSpace. So is there nowhere that FDLers can go to discuss matters that have a longer half-life than the few hours that a discussion thread lasts here, plus the “long tails of irrelevance” like this one, until the commentariat moves along like we always do in blog-land? (Leaving EPU’s as the only — and very lame — way for continuity?)
I won’t mind if nobody reads/responds… that’s the way it goes in blog-comment-land. :>
Senator Reid – Feb 14, 2008 (Page 1035)
This was rejected by the GOP, on the basis that no conference is necessary. Playing that forward, a determined minority of GOP Senators can continue to obstruct going to conference.
Re: Rockefeller as first target
I like this idea because of his leadership visibility. He would be hard to take down next term (what year is he up?). But look at IL-14. John Laesch made fabulous inroads into Hastert’s district over the course of two runs. Sadly, Foster had the money to beat him but I truly believe Laesch set the stage. Granted, a senate seat is from different from a congressional district, but is there someone to run against Rockefeller? On the face of it I really like the idea. But I know nothing about that community.
newspapers and radio spots. NO robocalls.
You want him and his staff to see and hear this stuff.
Also, I think we should organize a Bush Dog action where folks call them up and say:
“Four Words.
Telecom Amnesty.
Donna Edwards”
And for republicans at risk substitute “Bill Foster”
Howie, I’m trying to blue-sky this tactically, and the only thing I can come up with is probably absurd and logistically impossible, but nothing ventured, I’d look less stupid half the time . . .
Our issue is basically lack of broad reach, right? So the question would seem to be, once we’ve singled out who we’re going to make the example of, how to embarrass the shit out of him with as many impressions as possible with limited resources. And, yeah, this is duhvious, sorry . . .
So my question is, how can we extend reach beyond our immediate circle of the netroots and maybe tap other established progressive groups’ resources. I like the ad idea, but is there a way to go beyond outdoor? Howie, Jane, do you guys, or John or Glenn, have connections to tap to reach out to groups like TrueMajority, MoveOn, Credo, as big a coalition as possible of groups equally and zealously vested in this issue, which, like Praedo says, is about the very viability of the Constitution. These folks have big lists and frequent use of “creative” contests to both solicit and fund national (or regional) cable ads, like on Olbermann or something, typically on pretty quick turnaround?
See, naive as this might sound, what I’m envisioning is a kind of “road block,” as they say in the media buying world, where you almost create a national message of, “Len Boswell, you have sold us out, and this ad is only the first indication of hell to pay.” The killer app here, as starry-eyed as it might be, is this is the kind of thing that’s gonna get the eyeballs of the MSM, in their quirky political sidebar reports, as in, “What the hell? This progressive netroots coalition is singling out a mfking Democrat!” Tweety, Blitzer, and you KNOW Olbermann would love shit like this.
I’m not saying do Boswell, but I will posit this as maybe a template of weighing our choice of “example”: we’ve got a True Blue progressive, Ed Fallon, weighing a run against him here in Iowa, and the threat to throw not only BlueAmerica resources behind Fallon, as well as embarrassing, Bush Dog-imprinting-on-his-forehead national-ish media, could at least signal we are rolling up the newspaper and maybe ready slip a tire-iron inside. But IDing even a minor progressive threat to our “example” candidate, and promising to help make that threat far more real than they ever would’ve feared, could give us a media coup, embarrass the shit out of our subject, and maybe even plant the seeds of a real electoral tonic. And warn the others, “more of the same awaits you, you unctuous co-opted bitches.”
Again, I know this is slinging wishful shit against the wall — apologies for coming off all Capra-esque — but desperate times and all.
At the Johnson County (Iowa) Democratic Convention today, a young guy running for the state House used the fact that he helped get Boswell elected as a reason to vote for him. Bet it didn’t win him any points.
Semi-relatedly: when they (at the convention) asked for nominations for affirmative action officer, I almost nominated Geraldine Ferraro. The people around me talked me out of it. I thought it would have been amusing and we’d already been there for seven hours and needed a break.
Howie, been out all day, so just read article and thread.
I agree with what you said:
Take down Carney.
And, my first thought, even before I got to the comment where it was suggested was a billboard/ billboards. Then radio ads.
I don’t know how much text can be put in billboards and still be effective, tho. More in other formats, obviously.
But 2 possibilities I can think of so far as framing:
1)What Carney said; what Carney did.
2)Why does Carney want to… (give permission for illegal wiretapping, etc.)
Please please pretty please… let’s go after JRock… PLEASE