A Political Handbook for Post Bush America
Eric Alterman helped to create my awareness of modern politics. His book, What Liberal Media, along with Blinded by the Right, the Clinton Wars, and Before the Storm, taught me more about the political system and how it really worked than anything I had ever read.
Alterman helped me understand coalitions, modern media politics, and the right-wing, and I am forever indebted to his brilliant and brave intellectual arguments. What Alterman excels at is chronicling the structural lies embedded in our media and society that undermine liberal politics. He did this with What Liberal Media, where he systematically deconstructed the idea that the press is liberal, and did this in 2003.
The ‘So Called Liberal Media’, or SCLM for short, was a term he invented and used to great effect, such that is is now conventional wisdom in Democratic activist circles and among Democratic elites that the media has certain biases, but liberalism is not one of them. It is this intellectual work that led to, among others, the Fox News debate fight, the organizing against Nedra Pickler, and the understanding of how swiftboating operates.
I was surprised that his latest book, Why We’re Liberals: A Handbook for Post-Bush America, confused me. It’s a compendium of attacks on liberals, from his entire chapter on why liberals are not considered patriotic, with a useful analysis of the arguments conservatives have made about our relationship with the military and why those arguments are incorrect. He systematically goes through the litany of conservative arguments about liberalism, that we’re gay hippy loving terrorist anti-gun anti-family murderers of the unborn that embrace perversion so long as it’s subsidized by a government funded by taxes from working families who we will stop at nothing to break up with politically correct racial bigotry. Also, we’re weak on national security. Alterman goes through and explains why each of these stereotypes is strongly held by the public at-large, how the conservative movement created those misimpressions, and what mistakes liberals made to encourage those beliefs. On every issue conceivable, Alterman makes sure to walk us through the very real fact that Americans, when you talk about issues themselves, are liberal.
After I read most of the way through the book, I realized why I was I was confused. I had expected the book to discuss why we’re liberal, because that’s the title, but the focus was on why liberalism has been discredited despite wide public agreement with liberals on the issues. And in that discussion, it’s really a first-rate and meticulous piece of work. If you want to know why a certain stereotype is held about liberals, there’s no better book than this one. In addition, it’s extremely useful to read this to get a sense for how these impressions have been embedded in liberals themselves.
I think the structure of the book as well as the title contributed to my confusion. The first part of the book discusses liberalism itself, when it should have started with how the modern liberal brand is considered. In his section tracing the history of liberalism and what we believe Alterman doesn’t really define liberalism except to say that it is bears some analogies to the European welfare state, and goes through a narrative about why liberals lost power. The argument is organized around an ascendant right-wing and a culture war in the 1960s which the left basically lost, making a series of political mistakes from institutional weakness to checklist liberalism to excessive purity.
It’s impossible not to have tremendous admiration for Alterman’s work, but his understanding of what it means to be a liberal made no sense to me. Here’s a sample passage, discussing the Take Back America conference in 2005.
She was followed to the podium by Jesse Jackson, who likened progressives to "the third rail of American politics." The first two rails, Jackson explained, were the two parties. The third was a "strong independent force". As Gitlin rightly noted, Jackson’s metaphor may have been unwittingly revealing. "Third rails may carry the power, but they are also lethal." Sadly, he reports, both Gandy and Jackson drew standing ovations. Elections are not won by subtraction, and coalitions are not built on the basis of purity tests. But this is a fact of political life that all too many influential voices on the left refuse even to recognize.
Now, I have fought with traditional top-down liberals a lot. And I believe in fighting and argument, and I don’t always think the liberal groups deal in good faith. But it rubbed me the wrong way that an argument for a strong independent movement, once that operates to influence both parties, is considered a mark of ideological purity. The right-wing has been successful by taking over the Republican Party, but also by influencing the Democratic Party through politicians like Joe Lieberman and through funding networks like the DLC and the Koch brothers. They own the GOP, and about a fifth to a third of the Democratic Party depending on the issue. I don’t see how that can be considered anything but an independent and strong conservative movement, and while I don’t agree with their value system, I don’t understand why we shouldn’t recognize this as a remarkable organizing success and something to replicate.
Alterman relies on the analysis of people like Tom Edsall, who think that the Republican Party is the party of successful entrepreneurs; a cursory glance at Silicon Valley and the new energy economy shows that the economy of the future is not a conservative one. He discusses how the liberal base is just not as motivated towards activism as the conservative base, they have more door-knockers and volunteers, an argument that looks a bit outdated in the context of 2006, 2008, and the huge millenial-driven surge in activism.
Alterman argues that the netroots and the internet left, when you look at Fox News and the right-wing noise machine, just "do not compare to their right-wing counterparts". There is some truth to that in terms of overall reach of audience, but it’s a simplistic statement that ignores the larger cultural changes in American society and the utter dominance of the left in the increasingly influential Internet sphere of politics.
Alterman argues that liberals see gray and nuance, whereas conservatives see the world in black and white. He thinks that liberals see themselves as above politics, and that the ‘the Left’ is too much into ideological purity. This causes him to make political arguments that are highly questionable, such as his analysis of the 2006 election.
Liberals played a smart hand during the 2006 election, for once. Instead of focusing attention on the social and cultural issues that have traditionally proven so divisive within the Democratic Party and distasteful to so many people outside it, they swallowed their differences on these topics and reached out for a common position based on what looked to voters like a combination of populist economics and common sense. No one complained (much) when party leaders recruited candidates in certain areas who had conservative social positions, like Bob Casey Jr, the pro-life candidate for Senator in Pennsylvania, or Heath Shuler, who ran successfully for Congress in North Carolina on a pro-gun, pro-life platform. Without selling out their political principles, they agreed to disagree with others in their party about gun control, abortion, and gay marriage and focus instead of those issues that united them and a broad swath of the American public. In achieving those goals, liberals demonstrated not only impressive political pragmatism but some newfound political muscle.
Electing conservatives like Heath Shuler was not a smart strategy, as the capitulation of Congress on core progressive issues implies. The 2006 election was focused on Iraq, and if we had put progressives up for election everywhere, we would have put progressives in office. Any ham sandwich could have beaten Republicans that year. It just so happens that conservative Democrats put their candidates up for election, so that’s who got into Congress.
As for Alterman’s arguments about what is and isn’t liberal, I find them equally puzzling. If liberals can’t see black and white, then why is there such visceral liberal dislike for George Bush and Dick Cheney among Democrats? Why do we consider the war in Iraq immoral? If we are above politics, then why did a vast movement arise to beat Bush back over Social Security, John Bolton, Iraq, retroactive immunity, net neutrality, etc. Why do we fight against torture, if we see no black and white?
It seems to me that there is something of a gap in political philosophy right now, as the theoretical basis for an exceptionally partisan liberal sphere which operates in a right-wing dominated and bad faith suffused political environment is relatively unexplored. In addition, the impact of the enormous growth in the public space that is the Internet strikes me as pretty meaningful, and that has yet to be fused into what it means to modern liberalism. These are questions I’d like to see answered, though they are not simple.
There are a good number of other questions that I have about his argument, but none of this is to take away from his accomplishment in writing Why We’re Liberals. It is a forcefully argued book in which he describes in detail how liberalism came to be put into such a sorry state, and why it is in such dire need of renewal. We have a broad tent ideology, focused on argument, debate, and social justice, and it is an honor to welcome Eric Alterman here today.
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Eric Boehlert, Bloggers on the Bus: How the Internet Changed Politics and the Press
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Eric Patashnik, Reforms at Risk: What Happens After Major Policy Changes Are Enacted
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Benjamin Page, Class War? What Americans Really Think About Economic Inequality
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes James K. Galbraith – The Predator State: How Conservatives Abandoned the Free Market and Why Liberals Should Too
- FDL Book Salon – The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized The American Right





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Dr Alterman and Matt welcome to the Lake.
Welcome Eric Alterman! Glad to have you come and talk with us about your book.
Welcome Eric, and thanks Matt for kicking off the discussion.
Eric, Matt both admires your book and questions some of your associated arguments. It would be great to hear your own thoughts, putting your own work in its intended context.
I look forward to the discussion, and remember, everyone: for Book Salon discussions, we stay on topic in courtesy and in honor of our guests. Please use the thread below this one for chat about unrelated subjects.
Thanks!
Eric will be with us in a few minutes -
Eric, I’m always curious about what leads people to explore a given topic for a book. What led you to take on this project?
Welcome Eric!
Eric,
Amazing job, as always. I don’t always agree with you but your work is first rate.
Eric, what is your definition of “Liberals”?
Thanks, Matt, for taking the time to really dig in and get the discussion rolling.
I love it when people really engage arguments, taking ideas seriously enough to examine them, analyze them, question them intelligently and respectfully, etc.
Eric and Matt, a great honor to have you both here at FDL.
Hi sorry for the delay. my screwup
eric
Welcome, Eric. And thanks, Matt. Great to have you both here today.
Some of us who were “radicals” during the Vietnam War recall the disdain we held for liberals.
well, there’s certainly a lot of food for thought in Matt’s intelligent and provocative comments. I think I’d have to write another book to answer them.
held
Wo0T! Welcome, on the Ides of March.
Eric, Matt describes in general terms what you’ve done, but is there any particular anecdote that stands out for you about how the right wing managed to “brand” liberals so effectively? Anything particularly striking for you from your research?
Suffice to say that I’m very impressed by what I take to be reality. And what I take to be reality is a string of liberal losses for the past few decades despite the fact that most of the country agree with us. So either the country sucks, which may or may not be true but is not a useful political strategy (see under “Nader, Ralph) or we’re doing something wrong. In this book, I tried to spend some time on what I think we’re doing wrong as well as on substantive arguments that we should be winning. I never expected anyone, even any liberal, to agree with all of it. But I have no agenda, no loyalties to any politician or any particular point of view save those I lay out…
I don’t get the sense from Matt’s intro that anyone thinks you have an agenda, so no worries there, it seems to me. Hearing you lay out the reason for undertaking the book – to explain how and why we’ve been losing for so long – certainly helps put the whole thing in context.
I think liberals have had a lot of problems, in the recent, many of which are on the way being corrected. One big one though is because we think we have the right ideas, we don’t worry enough about implementation. Another is that we fail to compromise with one another for the purposes of doing most of what we need to do. Another is that we often plan for the America we want to see rather than the one in which we live. I’ve seen people attacked for worrying about the political impact of nominating a woman or a black man but these are real concerns, whether they make us comfortable to admit them…
Welcome Eric. Welcome Stoller.
I haven’t read the book yet, but the discussion so far makes me wonder about audience. Matt notes the title–”why we‘re liberals.” I do wonder who is included in that “we”? And to what degree does the answer to that question drive some of the issues Matt and Eric are talking about.
That is–are activists its audience? Less active people who don’t understand that they’re actually liberals? Both?
With regard to the quote Matt has from the book above — do the conservative “blue dogs” like Heath Shuler really have a populist economic agenda? Because it seems like they are very good at joining together with the Republicans to pass regressive, corporate friendly legislation. It’s my understanding that this was why they were recruited — to be safe votes on trade and business issues.
as for my definition of “liberals,” well, that’s part of the problem. It’s never been an easy word to define..
Do you think endorsements from MoveOn help liberals?
On trade, Shuler is populist, but other than that, he’s corporate friendly. It’s a really curious problem – why are conservative Democrats able to frame themselves as economic populists when they are much more closely aligned with corporate right-wing interests than any other part of the party?
the “We” in the book is intended to have a double meaning. The book is aimed both at arming people who know they are liberals with the arguments they need on most of the relevant issues they face, but also with convincing the 40-50 percent of Americans who think liberal to identify as such as well
I think perhaps some of the difference in perspective between you and Matt, Eric, comes from the particular subculture of liberalism represented by this thing loosely defined as the progressive netroots.
To be sure, a good portion of that loosely defined movement has become enthralled with candidates during this season, more than perhaps with issues. Then again, another group tends to be more issue focused, and accused of being to loyalty to ideology or to some kind of purity tests in the party.
I see different philosophies of movement building going on simultaneously: some who feel movements are built through candidates, primarily, who can then expand popular appeals and build infrastructure, and others who eschew candidate centric approaches for other, more issue oriented slates and other means through which to exert pressure, expand participation and build out institutions.
That dichotomy is not really described in Matt’s introduction, but is it one you observe with much distinction in the historical record? If so, what do you think the historical record may have to teach us?
Hellooo…Eric!
Forgive me…maybe I’m misunderstanding the thesis of your book but I’m tired of the “what was”.
What way forward to you see?
.
and while I like liberal Democrats rather than conservative Democrats, generally, I prefer Democrats who can get elected, liberal or conservative, to Democrats who can’t. So in the case of Shuler, he was, it seemed where his voters were… If they’re not liberal enough for our taste, then we have work to do..
Eric,
How do we, as liberals, go about reclaiming the word liberal from the trash can that folks like Limbaugh have placed it in?
For myself, I think the blogoshphere seems to be operating in a method that allows a pushback against the conservative framing. And it also seems to be that the Limbaughs and O’Reillys and such are being so thoroughly discredited by their own actions and hypocracies that we can make a slow but steady headway against the conservatives. Especially in regards to the conservatives having to use Orwellian phrases to hide their true intentions.
Well, I’m a historian. I think we are our histories. And that’s another problem liberals have had historically. In the 1960 they felt they could legislate away centuries of racism and oppression and the syndromes these created. But in many ways, the failure to recognize the complexity of the problems they faced, not only doomed them to failure, but in some cases made them worse.
Reclaiming the “word” is what this book is all about.
I think MoveOn helps, but can also hurt. Basically, I think MoveOn itself and developments like MoveOn (and the birth of the blogosphere) are among the most encouraging developments of the past decade
But is this a good use of time and energy, to reclaim a description that has been so sullied by the right when there are urgent matters at hand?
Perhaps it would be better to go forward with broader terms like progressive, or as my mother would like to see, The Party of the Sensible. We need to have a very big tent to build a coalition that will unchoke the right wing stranglehold on politics and the media.
Sorry, still trying to understand “we” (I devoted an entire chapter of my dissertation to “we,” so I’m a little obsessed).
Given that this is an audience of loud self-identified liberals (for the most part), what arguments is the book offering?
A better way to refute WingNut Uncle Willie’s claims that liberals are stupid?
I think the dispute many among us have with that mindset comes from a belief, supported by subsequent elections (like IL-14 and MD-04), that what is presumed by people like Rahm Emanuel to represent the narrow range of electability in less traditionally liberal districts becomes a self- fulfilling reality based on false assumptions, a kind of lack of belief in the popular appeal to liberalism itself.
And so, party institutions have acted to thwart nascent campaigns by grassroots liberals while recruiting former Republicans to run as nominal Democrats.
you might enjoy this video – the divide is still there.
The problem is, how many of us are doing as you suggest, only to be ignored by the SCLM? What can we do when the non-internet press all but ignores John McCain’s whole-hearted embrace of, and long-term relationship with, John Hagee, yet front-pages it when Obama’s pastor says something hinky?
Welcome to Matt and Eric.
A question to Matt regarding the quote below. Democrats absolutely had to have Dems elected to take control of the Senate. Witness the pandering to Lieberman not to defect to the Republicans, the fact that he did beside the point. Were they too timid, or was it just the fact that no one with a D beside their name had the name recognition that Schuler had who could get elected? Just how much did name recogition play?
hi eric and matt, thanks for being here.
please explain the choice for the book’s cover illustration.
Well there are dangers to realism and one of them is failing to recognize a revolutionary moment. I’m sure I’d be guilty of that were one to arise. But in the meantime, I think liberals too often allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. A Democratic Congress is a good compared to the available alternatives insofar as I am aware of them
Perhaps it would be better to go forward with broader terms like progressive
“Liberal” is a perfectly fine word.
Let’s reclaim it.
.
I picked the liberals I admired or I thought would prove recognizable to people–a combination of the two, and asked Tom Tomorrow to draw them up in a Seargent Pepper style illustration, which I like a lot. There’s a key at the end of the book
Hear, hear.
I think that to get more traction in this issue, we’re going to have to get more and better megaphones. A TV network would be nice.
I think liberals have no chance but to reclaim the word. Look how wimpy they look when they run away from it. What is necessary, however, is to fill it, and define from a position of strength, which is what I hope I am doing here…
I’m wondering if this discussion is about chickens and eggs.
Which comes first, the progressive (or liberal) infrastructure such that liberals can achieve their values–including electing true liberals to Congress? Or the election of enough weak liberals such that the majority of the country that supports liberal values will have representatives who belong to the liberal party, even if that weakens the party as a whole.
All of which becomes a more pressing question if–like Matt–we model success on what the radical right has succeeded in doing–taking over the media and, after that, the country.
Of course, they’ve got a lot more money than we do.
Agree.
FWIW, I get some traction with Republicans by reminding them of the 20th century etymology of “conservative.” As I understand it, pro-segregation Democrats like Strom Thurmond, adopted it. I like to remind the Republicans that prior to the civil rights legislation of the 60’s, it was perfectly LEGAL to not interview someone for a job, because of their ethnicity or religion.
the issues in question are the ones I see most frequently repeated, mindlessly, in the MSM by reporters who don’t even admit they are deploying right wing talking points.
Why are liberals such elititists? Why do they hate the military? Why do they love Hollywood smut peddlers, that kind of thing
The other night I watched George McGovern on the Colbert Report. He’s a solid, principled Midwestern populist (”Populist” in the good sense.) Not the “radical Commie” he’s portrayed as being.
Do you see anyone like him on the horizon?
.
Not sure we have that kind of time. The war goes on, and money is being siphoned out of the middle class at a horrifying rate. Congress is doing little to stop either of these. I know a lot of people who are sick of the war and scared about bankruptcy, who will never call themselves liberal. Yet we need them.
It would be nice to slowly and carefully build a new and pure movement. But too many lives and too much money are going to be lost while we argue about terminology. And I say this as someone who loves words, loves arguing about words.
i think they build on each other and are self-reinforcing. we have to do both.
Agree. Though I think Eric and Stoller are both advocating one of those steps.
Why are liberals such elititists? Why do they hate the military? Why do they love Hollywood smut peddlers, that kind of thing
We also like lattes. Never forget the lattes.
Also, I understand that we’re fascists.
How much value is there in satire, snark, and so on? After all, people of the Jonah Goldberg ilk, whatever else they are, are clowns, and yet they’re in the forefront of the “conservative movement”
I love the energy and commitment of the netroots and it’s filled with smart people employing subtle analyses. But I can’t overstress this sufficiently. History matters. Liberalism caused a great many of its own problems in the sixties and seventies. We need to meet people where they are. If we only meet them where we’d like them to be, we’ll end up alone
Goldberg is raking in the $ for sure, but I feel just as confident he’s not convincing anyone of anything. It’s a good strategy for making one’s name but not for building anything…
Precisely. This is why I don’t feel it is a good use of our time to convince 40 to 50 percent of the country that they are really liberals. Let’s let them call themselves whatever they want, and work with them to solve our common political and economic crises.
Please define “liberal”.
History matters.
Something too few people – and the SCLM – don’t realize.
.
so, for those of us who don’t know our history – after reading your book (of course!), can you suggest other sources we might look to for our self-education?
well the problem is that the demonization of the word is used to prevent them the other 40/50 percent from getting the policies they want. so the word needs to be reclaimed, to open the floodgates to all these policies they say they want and we know we want..
No, he’s not convincing anyone, but he is reinforcing that tribal wingnut identity politics.
I’d agree that there is a danger in falling into that sort of tribalism on the left and that it’s ultimately self defeating.
history of what specfically? Liberalism? I’m writing one of those now, from 1945 to the present–or at least I’m supposed to be.
For history generally, I’d recommend most of the books in the Oxford History of the United States. I make my research assistants read those, and also Richard Pells’ excellent intellectual histories of the 40s and fifties.
Hi Eric –
In the past, I’ve made a distinction between “Orthodox Liberalism” and liberalism as political philosophy. Orthodox Liberalism is basically the politics of Beltway Democrats, that was devoted to defending liberal programs, without much strategic thinking about the liberal brand. It is this type of liberalism that was routed in the 1994 election, which led to the very unliberal Welfare Reform of 1996. This old school beltway liberalism functioned very much like the Nationalist Chinese in the late 1940’s, defending positions but neglecting their political base. This attitude led to the right wing ascendancy, which operated very much like Maoist guerrillas, whetting the electorate’s anger by swimming with and co-opting the SCLM.
Liberalism as a political philosophy has found a home with progressive activists — while I think it’s important to reclaim Liberal as a word with positive connotations, it should be remembered that FDR called himself a liberal because the progressive movement had been discredited by the betrayals of Woodrow Wilson.
Question — what are the most effective strategies to overcome the institutional inertia of Orthodox Liberalism and it’s support groups (NARAL, Common Cause, etc) and how do we reclaim Liberal from the right wing smears?
Frank Luntz.
Very clever. Destroys the language. Our very own Goebbels.
.
From my observation of the blogosphere, meeting people where they are rather than where we would like them to be would require a change in how blogs operate so sweeping I doubt it can be done.
Addressing a gathering of New York’s Liberal Party, on whose presidential line he also ran, in September 1960, Senator Kennedy explained:
What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label “Liberal”? If by “Liberal” they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer’s dollar, then . . . we are not that kind of “Liberal.” But if by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the -people—their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties—someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.”
It’s certainly true that liberals made our mistakes, but I don’t think the demonization of the word itself was a natural phenomenon – it was deliberate, and extremely well financed. It seems that we need a deliberate strategy to take it back and connect it to our real liberal values. So when I hear Barack Obama saying things like
it seems counter-productive. These are liberal ideas! Must our candidates deny liberalism until it becomes more ‘popular’?
I agree. That really pissed me off. It’s one of the only things Obama has done that I feel offered an unnecessary concession to the bad guys. (and I love and admire Samantha…)
the way to reclaim liberalism from those groups is to take them over… just as the right did with its groups
I have called myself both liberal and progressive interchangeably, and I feel that both terms express my value system. However, when I choose not to use the word ‘liberal’, I am making sure that the conservative movement’s money has been well-spent. If I back off of the word ‘liberal’, they win! I am ready to take back that word. Wouldn’t it be great if all that conservative smear money was wasted?
Dr. Alterman, your blog, “Altercation”, was the first blog I read, back in the early days of the Bush junta. You got me started reading liberal blogs. Your blogroll lead me to Eschaton, TPM, TalkLeft, Counterspin (I think that was the name of Hesiod’s blog) and others.
Thank you!
Based on the quotes above, do you think Democrats should jettison gun control as an issue?
The modern liberal stirs the fire from the top.
Eric,
As unseemly as the subject may be, how do you think liberals (and Democrats) can leverage the resignation of Spitzer in comparison to the diaper David Vitter and toe tappin’ Larry Craig?
As well, how can we use the Rs and conservatives LACK of family values (Newt Gingrich divorcing his first wife while she was being treated for cancer) as a means of showing which group evidences the true “family values?”
There was a LIFE Magazine Opinion of the Week (in 1945, I believe) that started with the line, “I’m a Liberal too, but . . .” — the gist of commentary was that Liberalism had so totally discredited Conservatism by the end of the War that everyone self identified as Liberals, even if they were really conservatives.
The Right Wing adopted the FDR/New Deal strategies of two fisted Liberalism, and the Democrats forgot how the game was played after the 1968 split.
thanks for the kind words about Altercation. the blog world was really small in those days. It was wild of MSNBC.com to pick me as their only blogger, and I think back then, the only MSM blogger there was.
I’d put away gun control for now. I’d take what’s on the table and start building anew from there…
We need to do both. That’s how the righties plotted it back in the 1970s — mau-mau (and buy up) the media while taking over the party structure from the ground up.
Thanks to Dean, the netroots (and the remnants of the old base that got kicked to the curb by the DLCers in the 1990s) are making headway in the party (which is precisely why the corporate donors don’t like Dean’s fifty-state strategy: A strong Democratic party is one that the corporate donors can’t control as easily). It’s the media where we’ve got a way to go. Radio, TV and newspapers are losing audience to the online media (which is a problem for us as we don’t yet have the ability to fund boots-on-the-ground news operations), but most Americans still get their news from drive-time radio or the evening TV news.
That’s a real interesting interesting issue I’d also like to hear Eric’s take on.
When did Andrew Sullivan start blogging?
Rooseveldt FDR was a progressive that sought to change the depression status quo by innovative change, He was the root of the “liberal” movement.
Which is weak political tea now.
The present global and domestic political and economic situation demands that we as a species change the way we maintain the planet.
Exploiting resources has to be changed to conserving resources to survive.
Politics as usual (lobbying) will not get it done. Radical chaanges in the way we conduct our markets as FDR instituted have to be made.
The Insitutions of America will have to adjust. The Neocon business model of huge profits through deregulation for a few wealthy that have the money to protect their rights, while middle class dissolves, will not survive.
We as Liberals, progressives or conservatives have to redefine what is the highest priorities. The netroots are the forum for the changes that will occur whether we orchestrate them or let them happen by happenstance.
Liberasl is a word that I rarely use when I’m thinking much like freedom.
Labels are the perfeact target for tarring rovian style.
Andrew and Mickey and Josh all preceded “Altercation” but they were independents. I meant that when MSNBC asked me to create a blog, it was the first time an MSM organization sponsored a new blog..
Thanks to Dean, the netroots (and the remnants of the old base that got kicked to the curb by the DLCers in the 1990s) are making headway in the party (which is precisely why the corporate donors don’t like Dean’s fifty-state strategy
And we’ll be kicked back to the curb when a new DNC head is chosen later this year.
(Sorry for being cynical.)
.
Though, if you believe Bob Novak (not that many here do), gun control is ripping the Administration apart.
Exellent..thanks
if Bob Novak says it, it’s almost certainly untrue
Thanks so much for visiting with us today.
I live in Pennsylvania. We could have beaten man-on-dog Santorum with just about anyone short of Charles Manson on the ticket. Yet the Rendell-driven Democratic machine saddled us with Bob Casey Jr. Do you really believe that that was a smart decision? I believe we can win with authentic progressive candidates in most areas of the country.
I remember when you used to call him Bob Nofacts.
I don’t know enought about Pennsylvania politics to say whether it was a smart decision and I certainly supported the decision to challenge Lieberman, but my point is if the disagreement is limited to just one issue or even two issues, and those issues are not the war, then I can live with differences.
… we shall all hang separately…
Gun Control legislation was a classic example of failed Orthodox Liberalism — it didn’t ban AK-47 assault weapons, but outlawed pistol grips, folding stocks, flash suppressors and bayonet mounts. It energized the opposition, but offered little more than window dressing to address the problem.
The FDL Blue America challenge to the Bush Dogs probably did as much as anything to help pass the FISA bill on Friday — it is that kind of out of the box thinking that is changing politics for the better, and reclaim Liberalism as a political force to be reckoned with.
Gotcha.
When he was teamed with “Errors and..”
if Bob Novak says it, it’s almost certainly untrue
Every so often I re-read Timothy Crouse’s sadly out of print book The Boys on the Bus.
“No-Facts” was without facts since the beginning.
.
Ooops, covered, apparently. :-)
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I covered the Clinton crime bill for Rolling Stone and went travelling out west to report on it and it was massive, massive political catastrophe.
Seconded.
Never knew that existed.
I love it!
well, an opportunity like this is really a treat for an author–despite the ‘tough love’ up front so thanks so much to everyone who showed up and made it possible…
Casey was challenged from the left, as energetically as could be managed. You’re right though that the machine smothered that. It’s going to take a long time & a lot of effort to change that. Though Patrick Murphy did win, ad that showed you can run from the left and win. FWIW.
Thanks! Dr. A.
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Thanks for your answer.
Would you agree that in the more liberal sections of the country, it is OK for us to demand a little bit more in the way of “purity”?
absolutely, which is why it was a crime that Lieberman was “D-Ct.”
absolutely, which is why it was a crime that Lieberman was “D-Ct.”
We’re all big fans of Holy Joe here, bub. :-D
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“Why we’re Liberals”is a book I need to read. It covers a lot of topics.
For me we have to work with what we have. The media has been bought by the Right
The electoral process seems to present the most opportunity for the effort spent.
How can we best spend our energy to get the progessive agenda, universal safety net, environment…safe renewable energy, greenhouse gasses under control and renew the middle class? And get back to rule of law and constitutional government and sound foreign policy.
because you know conservatives are proud to call themselves conservative every chance they get – hell, they fight like junkyard dogs over who’s the ‘conserviest!’
good questions, all, but my hope is that for the kinds of people on this list, I can help them at least feel confident about their arguments.
Pachacutec, what’s your take on this?
As Newt Gingrich has pointedly observed, “Kerry says labels are mis-leading because he understands labels are the end of his campaign.”2 Indeed, even Rush Limbaugh proved uncharacteristically accurate when he pointed out that conservatives evince no such reticence when it comes to labeling. “Somebody calls me a conservative,” he teased his tongue-tied opponents, “I flex my muscles and say, ‘Yeah, baby.’ You want to call me a right-winger, I say, ‘Hell, yes, I’m a right-winger.’ But you call them liberals, they don’t want any part of it. They get defensive. ‘What do you mean by that? Why do you have to always say the L-word? You know that that doesn’t mean anything.’ Well, it does. It means a lot.”
but my hope is that for the kinds of people on this list, I can help them at least feel confident about their arguments.
I say this out of a measure of frustration: When the HELL did it become bad to call oneself “liberal”?
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Right on. That’s why they feel they can say that we ‘don’t stand for anything, only against things’. We need to own it.
I regard the media as our enemy. Do you believe we should “take it over” with tough regulation like the Fairness Doctrine and by breaking up media conglomeration? Or should we instead concentrate on doing an end run around it by creating our own net-based media to compete with it?
thanks people, I gotta go.
Van Morrison awaits…
In 1971, thanks to Lewis Powell.
Thank you so much Eric, I think we agree much more than we disagree. Appreciate your coming here and sharing your views.
I think he’s also sending the signal that this is widely considered to be an appropriate way to talk about liberals.
This is a very insecure country. Knowing you’re going to be targeted is enough to make most people keep their mouths shut. There’s a reason that Coulter and the National Review crew remember McCarthy so fondly.
A majority of people keeping their mouths shut creates a public minority.
thanks for saying so…
into the mystic..
Alicia: Thanks. That’s news to me.
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Thanks, Eric!
Enjoy that Irish singer!
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Mods please triple posts..thanks
thanks eric
my favorite van song…….you lucky liberal, have a blast.
My pleasure, spork. The history of how it happened is pretty disgusting. I have a recent post up that gives a brief synopsis of the process and who financed it, if you’re interested.
Eric, Matt, thanks for coming to the Lake and spending the afternoon.
I’m all for not allowing Repugs and rightists to appropriate and define words like patriotism and Stars-and-Stripes for their own purposes, but I wonder whether the word liberal might not be to too far gone in this respect. That appropriation has gone on for so long that the word is now only one way by most Americans. I’m all for substituting progressive for liberal…
BTW, Eric: I’ve always been an admirers of yours from way back…I like how you’ve keep one foot in academia and the other in journalism. Not very many people can do that…Skip Gates; Stanley Fish (he sometimes falls short); the late Edward Said: These are the other exceptions I can think of at the moment…
Hi Alicia…great blog…you do make clear “Common Sense” is not a liberal value it is just plain common sense.
For me you define better the liberal political flavor. You also seem middle class or mainstream American in your brief bio.
Think I’ll be visiting…do you post daily their?
Bookmarked!
Swell place!
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AK-47s sold in the U.S. are not assault rifles.
Assault rifles are automatic weapons.
One of the things that drives me up the wall is when a Network commentator makes a statement like “well of course America is conservative” and the liberal Democrat sitting across from them let’s them get away with it.
Why hasn’t our leaders coached their members to call them on such statements? Just once I want to hear “yes they may check the box that says they’re conservatives, but when you ask them on any issue from taxes, health care, to education they align with us liberals.
Please someone stand up and be proud to be a liberal!
They may not be 100% conservative, but consistently vote against their economic (&other) interests eg I’m thinking of What’s the Matter With Kansas.
I’m looking at what happens when you get health care || abortion. Education || sex education…. Civil rights || affirmative action || gay rights.
I was around in the 60s when reports first surfaced of people refusing to sign petitions ratifying the Bill of Rights. When (union) hardhats mocked & (beat up) antiwar protesters, America, Love It or Leave It.
Can anyone explain why middleclass people embraced taxcuts for the wealthy?
You can have the best possible liberal or progressiver candidate, and that candidate will be absolutely unelectable if he/she is an agnostic or atheist.
spork, bigbrother – I know everyone’s gone by now, but I wanted to say thanks for stopping by my blog. I aim for 3 times a week because I don’t just post for the sake of posting and it takes time for me to put together a coherent post, plus I work and have kids too…
Liberals don’t only have the problem of being smeared successfully by the conservative movement; they share the same problems conservatives have: they advocate some bad ideas. Now that may not be a bad thing if the objective is only to see your vision of the future win in the political sphere, but just as we’ve seen with the success of conservativism, winning doesn’t make bad ideas anymore right than losing makes bad ideas any less wrong. Liberals in politics go too far, and in so doing, they turn off many people who would otherwise support them.
Finally the middle class is wanting for a party that represents their interests. Conservatives represent the rich, and the Democrats represent the poor and disaffected. The middle class more often chooses to vote for the interests of the rich because they at least aspire to that class. No one aspires to be poor. The Middle Class is different than the poor and the rich. The poor and the rich look for government handouts; the middle class just wants the opportunity to fail or succeed on a level playing field.