To sustain individual liberties, we must consistently press elected officials to represent our rights in Congress.
Please call your elected Representative -- and the Blue Dogs as well -- and let them know that you expect them to stand for liberty: no telecom immunity, stand for the rule of law and vote for the Amendment to H. R. 3773. I am hearing the vote could come around 1 pm ET, although depending on GOP procedural shenanigans could be later. [Great statement from Rep. Holt on this today. (YouTube).]
Ben Franklin famously said that we have a Republic, if we can keep it. That charge to keep rests with all of us -- we must continue to work toward "a more perfect union" every day. It is our responsibility to demand better government, so that liberty is never sacrificed with a whimper, but with as loud a bang as we can muster.
Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay came up with an ingenious way to bring the Constitutional debate to citizens in NY state, as a way to encourage voters to ratify the Constitution over the prior Articles of Confederation. Today, the Federalist Papers are often used as a means of interpreting intent and background for various Constitutional provisions -- there were 85 essays in total. Additionally, there were the Antifederalist Papers from Patrick Henry and others debating safeguards for essential civil liberties, which ultimately led to the Bill of Rights.
In one such Federalist essay, Hamilton wrote:
To bereave a man of life (says he), or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to jail, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government. (emphasis mine)
While this discusses habeas corpus, the principle is analogous to unchecked domestic spying potential of the federal government versus the rights of individuals "to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects" subject to lawful warrant being obtained through a court under the Fourth Amendment.
The questions of essential liberties versus the unilateral power grabs of an executive who would be king are at the very heart of what our Founders debated prior to the American Revolution through to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. That these are again being raised by yet another petulant "King" George is a coincidence of ego and error, but when I read something like this, my patriotic ire gets fully stoked:
...Instead, voting for this bill would make our country less safe because it would move us further away from passing the good bipartisan Senate bill that is needed to protect America.
The American people understand the stakes in this struggle. They want their children to be safe from terror.
In Bush's mind, either he holds all the power and gets everything he demands, or our children are unsafe. Well, here's a thought for you Georgie: liberty and security are not mutually exclusive.
If we surrender the core of what we have stood for since our founding, then the terrorists make us cower in fear instead of standing tall in support of the rule of law and essential liberties. And we will have destroyed what this nation is at the heart without so much as a whimper if we sacrifice our essential liberties at such a cheap, fearmongering price.
Do we stand for liberty? I say yes, with everything I have.
The founding documents record the fierceness of the Founders fighting for the rights of the individual against the whim and tyranny of a monarch gone mad for more power. We are called today to do the same. The balance of liberty must be restored because its inherent value to us all is the cornerstone of democracy and serves as a balancing concern to uplift the rights of "we, the people."
We've made some progress, but there is more to do. Now, let's get to work...
PS -- We are still taking votes on the Blue Dog you think deserves a FISA wake-up call. You can cast your vote here...
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Christy!
Morning Ann — how are things at your house? The Peanut is sitting on momma’s lap, eating a freshly made sugar cookie with frosting and sprinkles and playing mom’s iTunes. *g* It’s a good day here…
It’s a damn shame that when they founded the country a couple hundred years ago, they didn’t write some kind of document that laid out a blueprint for what the government could and couldn’t do. Something that would anticipate that government officials try to hog all the power for themselves.
Oh well. Guess we’ll just have to muddle through. Give Dear Leader whatever he wants - I trust that he’s good at heart and will protect us.
Brilliant!
yall will laugh….it makes me cry a little….. with joy
how old is she?
Haven’t been feeling very well, just a cold, I think, but it’s kinda getting me down. But my spirits have brightened since the house started standing up for the rule of law. Sure hope it holds. Can’t wait for adjournment.
Hope Peanut enjoys her cookies. No preschool today?
id love to send her a stuffed (fake) bunny rabbit for spring
Thanks for the link to antifederalist papers… the Bushco methods have
forced me to the conclusion that the antifederalists were right about
the long term effects of the “tyranny” embodied in article II. #3 above
is really all we have, some pathological liar’s word on a bible for a
government.
Simply eloquent Christy. Beautifully written.
RRRRAAAAWWWWW!!!!!1
Great post Christy!
yes,i lurrrrrrrrrrrve,stuffed animals,never had any as a kid ..boohoo
hey christy! — GREAT post!
okay, one and all — need more
ammo to fax/mail/send to your
reps. and senators?
consider this full-sized image
from page 73 of the just-released
2006 DoJ OIG report on FBI abuses
of the NSL provisions, and the pat-
riot act section 215 “business
records” provisions. these are abuses
to which the FBI has already admitted!
[just click on the smaller image
to enlarge it, read it through, and
print it, and send it out! easy!]
light em up!
p e a c e
Just got off of the phone with my reps. Got through on the first try I hope that is not a sign that the lines are clear.
In the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s an existential threat to this nation existed.
The nation state posing that existential threat had a a significanft and sophisticated network of spies and traitors opearating within our borders.
Yet, we were able to maintain the liberties guaranteed us by the Fourth Amendment.
Now, when the threat is not existential, the network of traitors and spies relatively inconsequential and the governments ability through technology to violate our privacy dramatically enhanced, we must make this stand or surrender this key component of liberty forever.
This is that important.
She’ll be five soon — getting awfully big for momma’s comfort. Why can’t they stay tiny forever?
adorable age…..Ive come to think,that Obamas love for his wife and daughters,will save our republic,and planet if and when he becomes president…that LOVE is very contaigous methinks
Oh, thanks so much — but I believe the Easter Bunny has already stashed one away for her. *g*
I think something that has irked me repeatedly and I just never put my finger on it is that what really pisses me off about this constant fear mongering is that I am being treated like a helpless, ignorant child.
Like I don’t know what is right or wrong, that I am unable to stand and defend myself and my country if need be.I am constantly being told that no matter that I am 48 years old, someone else has to be trusted to insure that I am not going to wake up tomorrow to a Red Dawn reality.
Piss off, eh?
Relying on someone else’s bad judgment is the worst thing I could do.
The very people who are resorting to hyperbole to get what they want are the ones I am most worried about, not some anonymous Islamic/communist/ pick a flavor terrorist.
yea,andVonRumsfeld andCheney admitted that was “mostly” manufactured…IKe warned us
Congressional repubs say
the House should approve immunity for telecom companies
because the US senate did…
following that “logic”,
there is no reason for the existence of the US House of Representatives.
No time to read new post now (lunch company shortly). Just wanted to jump in and comment on how miserable this boosh economic speech is. Catchup with you guys later.
good then!
If we lose this battle, we will lose forever the privacy that has been protected for us by the rule of law.
If we cannot go to the courts to redress the wrongs done to our rights, what happens to our civil rights? They disappear. Poof. Gone. Wasn’t that easy?
And. We. Won’t. Ever. Get. Them. Back.
Ah-h-h-h. But the growing is every bit as much fun. Enjoy!
word …specially a maroooooone like chimpie
You can never have one rabbit
It’s a law of nature
Just listening to the chimp railing about the FISA bill. They are fighting so hard on this bill I think they know it will bring them down.
House billing is passing 198 to 180
with 53 votes left to be cast
I’m guessing the vote on H.R.3773 will be closer to 2 p.m. Right now they are taking a roll call vote on “the rule,” and assuming no shenanigans (demanding roll call votes on motion to reconsider, insertions motions to adjourn), the one hour of debate won’t start until after noon. After the hour of debate is over, there is a motion to proceed to the question, and that will almost certainly be under a roll call vote.
We’ll know about the extent of intended delay pretty soon.
This is true!
read this if ya have time
http://www.globalsecurity.org/.....-rummy.htm
Hi Christy. Thanks for the Federalist quotes; at the top of my site is another one: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.” It’s as though they knew George “Trust Us” Bush would be President one day.
i must have 100,little stuffed animals….like a kid ,a glimpse bring smiles to this oldie but goodie…”g”
– They are fighting so hard on this bill I think they know it will bring them down –
I think it’s pure obstinance. I don’t see a rational basis for the strong attachment to retroactive immunity. I understand asking for it (who knows, it never hurts to ask), but demanding it is the source of all the heartburn.
Unless, of course, the intention is to create heartburn.
Christy
Excellent post. Spot on.
I also called my state reps encouraging them to make a stand on this because in addition to the inherent threat of individual Constitutional rights, there is inherent threat on a state’s economy due to the potential of leaks of proprietary information belonging to large employers in our state. This concept has been “perking attention”… It has spurred great conversation about the violation of individual rights being tied to states’ rights… States are also left with the economic burden of identity theft too.
It’s been interesting to chew on these extended ideas in addition to the primary focus of no telecom immunity,preserving the balance of power and ultimately preserving the 4th Amendment.
I can just see how Pioneers could benefit quite a bit…while we are invaded in our private lives…
As I read the post, I couldn’t help but think about what our own candidates would do if given the powers that Bush demands. Would Hillary return this democracy to the one we knew before this administration so betrayed it? Would Obama, the Constitutional Law professor, see to it that our civil liberties are returned to the people, where they belong? And just how would Republicans see these powers that Bush is demanding if they were in the hands of either Hillary or Barack! I certainly hope that we’ll come to know the answers to at least some of those questions in November, because I don’t want to know what McCain will do with those powers. Seems to me the politicians are the most at risk, since the powers will be turned against them first.
Shorter George Bush speech on the economy in CSPAN 3: I got nothing except what got us into this mess.
My feelings exactly. It seems to me that throughout history the “ruling class” has believed that the peasants are too stupid to recognize danger until it had its hands around our neck. Could it be because we have put up with this stuff for so long. They are the danger with their hands around our throats.
they for once are TERRORIZED by the thought of mebbe being charged with a crime
Here is what I sent the Blue Dogs:
To paraphrase a dreadful man “We don’t know what we don’t know” But they know what we don’t and whatever it is it could be the smoking gun….
– they for once are TERRORIZED by the thought of mebbe being charged with a crime –
I don’t see much risk of that, to be honest. It’s more like losing the veil of secrecy is, itself, bad enough, regardless of what’s behind it.
The parallel I have in mind is all the anti-commie snooping of the 60’s and 70’s. There was no criminal prosecution of Hoover.
221-188 the Rule passes. No shenanigans at this point in the form of motion to adjourn or demanding roll call on motion to table the motion to reconsider.
must repeat, for our founding fathers, even the federalists, can bring shivers to my skin
nice find christy
Bush’s handlers are desperately trying to work to their game plan: time now to set in stone the invasive “policing” tools they’ve illegally used, and to make legitimate the massive amounts of information they’ve collected and how they use it. Not just to stay out of jail (though I can guess whether it would be George or Dick would get top bunk in the cell). But to have those tools available next time around so that they can be exploited and further developed, regardless of whether an intervening Democrat has too little testosterone - or none at all - to use them.
Bush himself? He’s just sticking to what he believes: petulance (and an “I’ll get You when mom’s not looking, a-hole”) wins out over brains every time.
Not visible on Bush’s stage, however, is the main player: US, not the United States Government, us. Time for voters to make crystal clear who’s the chorus and who are the lead players.
oh perfectly to the point
payback is awesome!
fisa bill up on house floor.
yea that is why i said mebbe…in a poifect world yadda yadda ,yadda
Debate is starting up again.
wow
that is a bingo right there, I have been saying from the start they are stealing information for personal gain
your post earl of huntington is spot on
Probably more likely where we are today.
When Bush and co. say that “If we don’t pass this FISA bill there will be another attack on America”…. Is that a threat or a promise?
who wudda thunk that is where we are huh?
My bet for the last speaker on the pub side….
John Boehner and his quivering lip
They don’t want to miss their flights.
morning, pups (yawn)
I know some folks don’t necessarily think highly of John Conyers (as of late) but I adore him. Slow, steady and spot on.
It’s a rabbit punch. If there’s no attack, the GOP will credit their prior actions. If there is one, they’ll blame the Democrats regardless of why it happened. Even if their president’s intelligence services weren’t shrieking for six months: “bin Laden likely to attack America soon”.
I think the reason that you feel the way you do is because it’s the ones that are trying to grab the power through fearmongering and hyperbole are the most insidious threats. Terrorists, though miserable cowards and all around bad people, are understandable in their grab for power over us. We can see it coming; we know them for what they are. But the ones who are using our own government against us are not so obvious. They smile in your face and shake your hand as they take your liberties and democracy itself with the other hand. Further, I think they are also miserable cowards, just more duplicitous.
If he allowed cheney impeachment hearings to proceed,
my opinion of him would greatly improve!!
Has he cried yet?
Ahhh, the odious Lamar Smith
I respect that, but there is no way they would get 2/3 to agree to impeach
well put.
Repugs talking points, ho!!!
nyet
he’s saving it for his grand finale!!
Fine post, Christy. I just watched Bush’s speech at NY Economic Club which was supposed to be reassuring over the economy. A woman asked him why there seemed to be growing support of protectionism. He launched into a rambling tirade covering his whole rationalization for fearing terrorists, spreading freedom, opening borders, etc.. I thought he had lost it. He even worked in the urgent need to listen in on terrorists. Somehow, it all relates to protectionism and isolationism. If we don’t torture and give up our fourth amendment rights, were going to be isolationists, and that will be the end of it all.
1,780 dAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thank you so much for remindin’ us all about the “Federalist Papers”…I’ve had a couple a annotated collections on my shelf for 30 years. A warnin’ about extrapolatin’ or generalizin’ too much about the politics or ideology behind each writer or each paper, however…the terms “liberal” and “conservative” are really meaningless when describin’ the 18th century enlightenment and especially the hybrid American version. The Federalist Papers are best read literally with a good dictionary, they speak very well to their identified topics and really apply well to specific situations like the FISA argument today…as long as we don’t try and twist ‘em into the artificial political distinctions of today. Let ‘em speak for themselves and they will end any argument for the advancement of fascist solutions to questions of political security today.
That’s why I like 18th century America…my kids think I belong back there anywayz but I tell ‘em I ain’t got the chops ta engage those folks, I’m jest tryin’ ta keep their genius alive by referrin’ to ‘em and lettin’ their truth speak to us.
Thanks again Sister Smith and…
KEEP THE FAITH AND THE TRUTH WILL DO THE REST!!
they still need to hold the hearings
if, in the meantime BushCo orders Iran to be attacked
impeachment will have greater attention and chance to pass
Can I get one democrat to stand up and say, “Stop with the terra terra terra cry. We are not at risk, the bill has everything needed to conduct surveillance so it is on you to pass it…and kiss my ass while you at it” (Okay scrub the last part but a girl can dream)
I am sorry, this just isn’t true
the crimes that will be demonstrated will so enrage their base they will have no choice
these are the highest of crimes we are talkinb about…I will tell you right now, neither would proceed with the trial so the public does not find out what will be brought before the bar of justice
Yeah, Christy! Don’t you want to teach The Peanut the facts of rabbit life? They multiply “like bunnies,” doncha know? Kids her age can never have too many bunnies!
Great post.
Funny you should mention the “Anti-Federalist Papers.” I’ve never read them, so ordered a copy from Amazon. It arrived yesterday, just as I was reading the FISA vote thread and making calls. Hope to start on it Sunday, with the Federalist Papers by my side, to track the arguments.
BTW, every time I saw/heard the “presnit-wit” yesterday or this a.m., I had to turn radio/tv off to prevent myself throwing something through it.
I can’t believe how much I loathe that
manovergrown spoiled boy.– They don’t want to miss their flights. –
Funny how that works! But man, does it ever work.
I respectfully disagree, look at all the atrocities already committed and the lack of any outrage on the repug and many on the dem side.
Thanks for the fearmongering, Lamar.
Good job. The dead body floating in the river was a nice touch.
I said it’s my opinion, I just don’t see it happening, ok?
The investment bank Bear Stearns is tanking. You can’t see all the crocodile tears I’m shedding over this but I am, a lot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03.....LncigcerDA
Yes, I thought since the wingnuttiest like to quote Hamilton as justification for power grabs, I’d throw that one out for some contemplation. *g*
Normal reaction from sentient beings. That’s why they keep him in a bubble: to protect him from himself, not us.
the devasting consequences argument…been tried and didn’t work but if at first you don’t succeed, try the talking point again
The Federalist Papers are excellent. I also enjoy dipping into Blackstone. The Avalon Project has Blackstone online.
Blackstone Online
Caution: Blackstone is heavily legalese, and being written in Olde World style, some parts are very dense reading.
i just re-read my response to you, sorry if it came across snippy. I meant to just say that I don’t see the outrage around me to support an impeachment (not counting you all). I would love to see it, I just don’t see it happening
Tom Feeney up to bat for the Fearmonger Party.
Trial Lawyers are evil. Good job, Tom!
My feelings exactly - he’s my (ugh) congresscritter. Called his office yesterday - at least his office person was very nice.
wobblybits–have I mentioned that I love your handle? Makes me smile every time I see it :)
It has to be that the retroactive immunity also absolves the administration from all possible charges after their term of office. The Prez said it yesterday, when he said that the telecoms were assured by the government that what they are doing is legal; now there is at the very least serious doubt about the legality of their actions. This is an attempt to innoculate their own actions, give themselves a blanket pardon, so to speak.
they repeat their mindless babble until the very discussion gives it credibility
they make believe something that is rediculous is a valid opinion, then there is a debate that they created in the first place and they make believe anyone who disagrees is just an opinion
Hole in the dike, not the tip of the iceberg. The usual, “Just normal excess, it’ll correct itself,” somehow never seems to address how long it takes or at who’s cost.
This time, I suspect, its costs will include quite a few at the top, no matter how much Bush tries to bail only them out. The winners of this process will be those outside America who don’t hold dollars, plus a few wealthy supranationalists. Like the price of oil, quite a lot is changing permanently, change accelerated - and to our considerably detriment - by the emotional midget in cowboy boots.
sort of a reverse straw man
the trial lawyers are terrorists
Some dopey Republican just brought up the argument that the telecoms can’t defend themselves because they their defenses are classified. Glenn Greenwald has pointed out numerous times that this is flat out wrong. bmaz has indicated too that the telecoms already have protection from most liability claims. The good version of the PAA allows telecoms the right to present classified material in their defense.
All the Republicans do is repeat all the old stories and arguments that have been previously and on multiple occasions debunked.
Why thank you *g*
I love yours as well, makes me think of summer, lemonade, fat happy bumblebees and lazy afternoons lying on the hammock with a good book and some dryer sheets (mosquito repellant)
How soon before President Shithead starts talking to portraits in the Whitehouse?
-G
got it, thanx for teh clarification.
impeachment will work, they will never go before the bar of justice, they will resign
their depravity is too far reaching and to bizarre, they will never want the public to know it
impeachment will absolutely work
Has anyone the website for this congressional frivolity?
And stop pardons
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Perris:
“…the crimes that will be demonstrated will so enrage their base they will have no choice.”
Absolutely, and that is the terrible injustice of Nancy Pelosi and One Hung Harry Reid, ain’t it…they KNEW the extent of the corruption and insult to the entire system and they didn’t trust the people enough to apply the remedy that the Founders gave us. This is very similar to the dynamic behind Warren Report…the oligarchy and political nobility didn’t believe that the system would survive the outrage of the unwashed masses. This condescendin’ attitude of “we know best” must be put to rest in the next Congress with new leadership in BOTH houses…Pelosi and Reid must go!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND TOOS THE BASTARDS OUT WITH THE BATHWATER!!
their ceo got on the teevee,last week and VEHEMENTLY denied this…he needs to go to jail asap
Yes, well facts have a well-known liberal bias, you know…
The debate is on CSPAN1.
A sad modern limerick
a violent criminal regime faces a test
‘rule of law’ vs. ‘rule by obfuscation’
and no impartial referee,
what will happen,
what possible outcome will their be…
Steve King up:
Protect the rights of the telecoms!
Trial lawyers are evil!
No one’s rights are being violated!
We cannot let my telecom stocks plummet in value!
Thank goodness Nadler is schooling them on separation of branches; courts decided legal cases, not congress
Ladies and gentlemen…AMERICA IS AT WAR….blah blah blah this body has failed to pass a bill that will protect amuricans…blah blah…democrats failing…blah blah…,senate bi-partisan bill ..blah blah… SEPTEMBER 11TH…. Cause you know we should just rubber stamp what the senate does, afterall we are teh suck
They just hang out and wade in the shallow end of the gene pool
this is of course the main reason to do it imo
Mike Pence:
Fatherhood. 9/11 (of course).
Needs work, Mike.
Nice short smack down by Silvestre
110th congress is not a rubberstamp for anyone, not congress and not the administration
Reyes showing some spunk. The House isn’t a rubberstamp for this Prsident or the Senate.
Why shouldn’t they? They always work so well.
The “truth” is about as relevant these days as the buggy whip.
– It has to be that the retroactive immunity also absolves the administration from all possible charges after their term of office. The Prez said it yesterday, when he said that the telecoms were assured by the gove