To sustain individual liberties, we must consistently press elected officials to represent our rights in Congress.
Please call your elected Representative — and the Blue Dogs as well — and let them know that you expect them to stand for liberty: no telecom immunity, stand for the rule of law and vote for the Amendment to H. R. 3773. I am hearing the vote could come around 1 pm ET, although depending on GOP procedural shenanigans could be later. [Great statement from Rep. Holt on this today. (YouTube).]
Ben Franklin famously said that we have a Republic, if we can keep it. That charge to keep rests with all of us — we must continue to work toward "a more perfect union" every day. It is our responsibility to demand better government, so that liberty is never sacrificed with a whimper, but with as loud a bang as we can muster.
Alexander Hamilton, James Madison and John Jay came up with an ingenious way to bring the Constitutional debate to citizens in NY state, as a way to encourage voters to ratify the Constitution over the prior Articles of Confederation. Today, the Federalist Papers are often used as a means of interpreting intent and background for various Constitutional provisions — there were 85 essays in total. Additionally, there were the Antifederalist Papers from Patrick Henry and others debating safeguards for essential civil liberties, which ultimately led to the Bill of Rights.
In one such Federalist essay, Hamilton wrote:
To bereave a man of life (says he), or by violence to confiscate his estate, without accusation or trial, would be so gross and notorious an act of despotism, as must at once convey the alarm of tyranny throughout the whole nation; but confinement of the person, by secretly hurrying him to jail, where his sufferings are unknown or forgotten, is a less public, a less striking, and therefore a more dangerous engine of arbitrary government. (emphasis mine)
While this discusses habeas corpus, the principle is analogous to unchecked domestic spying potential of the federal government versus the rights of individuals "to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects" subject to lawful warrant being obtained through a court under the Fourth Amendment.
The questions of essential liberties versus the unilateral power grabs of an executive who would be king are at the very heart of what our Founders debated prior to the American Revolution through to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. That these are again being raised by yet another petulant "King" George is a coincidence of ego and error, but when I read something like this, my patriotic ire gets fully stoked:
…Instead, voting for this bill would make our country less safe because it would move us further away from passing the good bipartisan Senate bill that is needed to protect America.
The American people understand the stakes in this struggle. They want their children to be safe from terror.
In Bush’s mind, either he holds all the power and gets everything he demands, or our children are unsafe. Well, here’s a thought for you Georgie: liberty and security are not mutually exclusive.
If we surrender the core of what we have stood for since our founding, then the terrorists make us cower in fear instead of standing tall in support of the rule of law and essential liberties. And we will have destroyed what this nation is at the heart without so much as a whimper if we sacrifice our essential liberties at such a cheap, fearmongering price.
Do we stand for liberty? I say yes, with everything I have.
The founding documents record the fierceness of the Founders fighting for the rights of the individual against the whim and tyranny of a monarch gone mad for more power. We are called today to do the same. The balance of liberty must be restored because its inherent value to us all is the cornerstone of democracy and serves as a balancing concern to uplift the rights of "we, the people."
We’ve made some progress, but there is more to do. Now, let’s get to work…
PS — We are still taking votes on the Blue Dog you think deserves a FISA wake-up call. You can cast your vote here…
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Christy!
Morning Ann — how are things at your house? The Peanut is sitting on momma’s lap, eating a freshly made sugar cookie with frosting and sprinkles and playing mom’s iTunes. *g* It’s a good day here…
It’s a damn shame that when they founded the country a couple hundred years ago, they didn’t write some kind of document that laid out a blueprint for what the government could and couldn’t do. Something that would anticipate that government officials try to hog all the power for themselves.
Oh well. Guess we’ll just have to muddle through. Give Dear Leader whatever he wants – I trust that he’s good at heart and will protect us.
Brilliant!
yall will laugh….it makes me cry a little….. with joy
how old is she?
Haven’t been feeling very well, just a cold, I think, but it’s kinda getting me down. But my spirits have brightened since the house started standing up for the rule of law. Sure hope it holds. Can’t wait for adjournment.
Hope Peanut enjoys her cookies. No preschool today?
id love to send her a stuffed (fake) bunny rabbit for spring
Thanks for the link to antifederalist papers… the Bushco methods have
forced me to the conclusion that the antifederalists were right about
the long term effects of the “tyranny” embodied in article II. #3 above
is really all we have, some pathological liar’s word on a bible for a
government.
Simply eloquent Christy. Beautifully written.
RRRRAAAAWWWWW!!!!!1
Great post Christy!
yes,i lurrrrrrrrrrrve,stuffed animals,never had any as a kid ..boohoo
hey christy! — GREAT post!
okay, one and all — need more
ammo to fax/mail/send to your
reps. and senators?
consider this full-sized image
from page 73 of the just-released
2006 DoJ OIG report on FBI abuses
of the NSL provisions, and the pat-
riot act section 215 “business
records” provisions. these are abuses
to which the FBI has already admitted!
[just click on the smaller image
to enlarge it, read it through, and
print it, and send it out! easy!]
light em up!
p e a c e
Just got off of the phone with my reps. Got through on the first try I hope that is not a sign that the lines are clear.
In the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s an existential threat to this nation existed.
The nation state posing that existential threat had a a significanft and sophisticated network of spies and traitors opearating within our borders.
Yet, we were able to maintain the liberties guaranteed us by the Fourth Amendment.
Now, when the threat is not existential, the network of traitors and spies relatively inconsequential and the governments ability through technology to violate our privacy dramatically enhanced, we must make this stand or surrender this key component of liberty forever.
This is that important.
She’ll be five soon — getting awfully big for momma’s comfort. Why can’t they stay tiny forever?
adorable age…..Ive come to think,that Obamas love for his wife and daughters,will save our republic,and planet if and when he becomes president…that LOVE is very contaigous methinks
Oh, thanks so much — but I believe the Easter Bunny has already stashed one away for her. *g*
I think something that has irked me repeatedly and I just never put my finger on it is that what really pisses me off about this constant fear mongering is that I am being treated like a helpless, ignorant child.
Like I don’t know what is right or wrong, that I am unable to stand and defend myself and my country if need be.I am constantly being told that no matter that I am 48 years old, someone else has to be trusted to insure that I am not going to wake up tomorrow to a Red Dawn reality.
Piss off, eh?
Relying on someone else’s bad judgment is the worst thing I could do.
The very people who are resorting to hyperbole to get what they want are the ones I am most worried about, not some anonymous Islamic/communist/ pick a flavor terrorist.
yea,andVonRumsfeld andCheney admitted that was “mostly” manufactured…IKe warned us
Congressional repubs say
the House should approve immunity for telecom companies
because the US senate did…
following that “logic”,
there is no reason for the existence of the US House of Representatives.
No time to read new post now (lunch company shortly). Just wanted to jump in and comment on how miserable this boosh economic speech is. Catchup with you guys later.
good then!
If we lose this battle, we will lose forever the privacy that has been protected for us by the rule of law.
If we cannot go to the courts to redress the wrongs done to our rights, what happens to our civil rights? They disappear. Poof. Gone. Wasn’t that easy?
And. We. Won’t. Ever. Get. Them. Back.
Ah-h-h-h. But the growing is every bit as much fun. Enjoy!
word …specially a maroooooone like chimpie
You can never have one rabbit
It’s a law of nature
Just listening to the chimp railing about the FISA bill. They are fighting so hard on this bill I think they know it will bring them down.
House billing is passing 198 to 180
with 53 votes left to be cast
I’m guessing the vote on H.R.3773 will be closer to 2 p.m. Right now they are taking a roll call vote on “the rule,” and assuming no shenanigans (demanding roll call votes on motion to reconsider, insertions motions to adjourn), the one hour of debate won’t start until after noon. After the hour of debate is over, there is a motion to proceed to the question, and that will almost certainly be under a roll call vote.
We’ll know about the extent of intended delay pretty soon.
This is true!
read this if ya have time
http://www.globalsecurity.org/…..-rummy.htm
Hi Christy. Thanks for the Federalist quotes; at the top of my site is another one: “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.” It’s as though they knew George “Trust Us” Bush would be President one day.
i must have 100,little stuffed animals….like a kid ,a glimpse bring smiles to this oldie but goodie…”g”
– They are fighting so hard on this bill I think they know it will bring them down –
I think it’s pure obstinance. I don’t see a rational basis for the strong attachment to retroactive immunity. I understand asking for it (who knows, it never hurts to ask), but demanding it is the source of all the heartburn.
Unless, of course, the intention is to create heartburn.
Christy
Excellent post. Spot on.
I also called my state reps encouraging them to make a stand on this because in addition to the inherent threat of individual Constitutional rights, there is inherent threat on a state’s economy due to the potential of leaks of proprietary information belonging to large employers in our state. This concept has been “perking attention”… It has spurred great conversation about the violation of individual rights being tied to states’ rights… States are also left with the economic burden of identity theft too.
It’s been interesting to chew on these extended ideas in addition to the primary focus of no telecom immunity,preserving the balance of power and ultimately preserving the 4th Amendment.
I can just see how Pioneers could benefit quite a bit…while we are invaded in our private lives…
As I read the post, I couldn’t help but think about what our own candidates would do if given the powers that Bush demands. Would Hillary return this democracy to the one we knew before this administration so betrayed it? Would Obama, the Constitutional Law professor, see to it that our civil liberties are returned to the people, where they belong? And just how would Republicans see these powers that Bush is demanding if they were in the hands of either Hillary or Barack! I certainly hope that we’ll come to know the answers to at least some of those questions in November, because I don’t want to know what McCain will do with those powers. Seems to me the politicians are the most at risk, since the powers will be turned against them first.
Shorter George Bush speech on the economy in CSPAN 3: I got nothing except what got us into this mess.
My feelings exactly. It seems to me that throughout history the “ruling class” has believed that the peasants are too stupid to recognize danger until it had its hands around our neck. Could it be because we have put up with this stuff for so long. They are the danger with their hands around our throats.
they for once are TERRORIZED by the thought of mebbe being charged with a crime
Here is what I sent the Blue Dogs:
To paraphrase a dreadful man “We don’t know what we don’t know” But they know what we don’t and whatever it is it could be the smoking gun….
– they for once are TERRORIZED by the thought of mebbe being charged with a crime –
I don’t see much risk of that, to be honest. It’s more like losing the veil of secrecy is, itself, bad enough, regardless of what’s behind it.
The parallel I have in mind is all the anti-commie snooping of the 60’s and 70’s. There was no criminal prosecution of Hoover.
221-188 the Rule passes. No shenanigans at this point in the form of motion to adjourn or demanding roll call on motion to table the motion to reconsider.
must repeat, for our founding fathers, even the federalists, can bring shivers to my skin
nice find christy
Bush’s handlers are desperately trying to work to their game plan: time now to set in stone the invasive “policing” tools they’ve illegally used, and to make legitimate the massive amounts of information they’ve collected and how they use it. Not just to stay out of jail (though I can guess whether it would be George or Dick would get top bunk in the cell). But to have those tools available next time around so that they can be exploited and further developed, regardless of whether an intervening Democrat has too little testosterone – or none at all – to use them.
Bush himself? He’s just sticking to what he believes: petulance (and an “I’ll get You when mom’s not looking, a-hole”) wins out over brains every time.
Not visible on Bush’s stage, however, is the main player: US, not the United States Government, us. Time for voters to make crystal clear who’s the chorus and who are the lead players.
oh perfectly to the point
payback is awesome!
fisa bill up on house floor.
yea that is why i said mebbe…in a poifect world yadda yadda ,yadda
Debate is starting up again.
wow
that is a bingo right there, I have been saying from the start they are stealing information for personal gain
your post earl of huntington is spot on
Probably more likely where we are today.
When Bush and co. say that “If we don’t pass this FISA bill there will be another attack on America”…. Is that a threat or a promise?
who wudda thunk that is where we are huh?
My bet for the last speaker on the pub side….
John Boehner and his quivering lip
They don’t want to miss their flights.
morning, pups (yawn)
I know some folks don’t necessarily think highly of John Conyers (as of late) but I adore him. Slow, steady and spot on.
It’s a rabbit punch. If there’s no attack, the GOP will credit their prior actions. If there is one, they’ll blame the Democrats regardless of why it happened. Even if their president’s intelligence services weren’t shrieking for six months: “bin Laden likely to attack America soon”.
I think the reason that you feel the way you do is because it’s the ones that are trying to grab the power through fearmongering and hyperbole are the most insidious threats. Terrorists, though miserable cowards and all around bad people, are understandable in their grab for power over us. We can see it coming; we know them for what they are. But the ones who are using our own government against us are not so obvious. They smile in your face and shake your hand as they take your liberties and democracy itself with the other hand. Further, I think they are also miserable cowards, just more duplicitous.
If he allowed cheney impeachment hearings to proceed,
my opinion of him would greatly improve!!
Has he cried yet?
Ahhh, the odious Lamar Smith
I respect that, but there is no way they would get 2/3 to agree to impeach
well put.
Repugs talking points, ho!!!
nyet
he’s saving it for his grand finale!!
Fine post, Christy. I just watched Bush’s speech at NY Economic Club which was supposed to be reassuring over the economy. A woman asked him why there seemed to be growing support of protectionism. He launched into a rambling tirade covering his whole rationalization for fearing terrorists, spreading freedom, opening borders, etc.. I thought he had lost it. He even worked in the urgent need to listen in on terrorists. Somehow, it all relates to protectionism and isolationism. If we don’t torture and give up our fourth amendment rights, were going to be isolationists, and that will be the end of it all.
1,780 dAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Thank you so much for remindin’ us all about the “Federalist Papers”…I’ve had a couple a annotated collections on my shelf for 30 years. A warnin’ about extrapolatin’ or generalizin’ too much about the politics or ideology behind each writer or each paper, however…the terms “liberal” and “conservative” are really meaningless when describin’ the 18th century enlightenment and especially the hybrid American version. The Federalist Papers are best read literally with a good dictionary, they speak very well to their identified topics and really apply well to specific situations like the FISA argument today…as long as we don’t try and twist ‘em into the artificial political distinctions of today. Let ‘em speak for themselves and they will end any argument for the advancement of fascist solutions to questions of political security today.
That’s why I like 18th century America…my kids think I belong back there anywayz but I tell ‘em I ain’t got the chops ta engage those folks, I’m jest tryin’ ta keep their genius alive by referrin’ to ‘em and lettin’ their truth speak to us.
Thanks again Sister Smith and…
KEEP THE FAITH AND THE TRUTH WILL DO THE REST!!
they still need to hold the hearings
if, in the meantime BushCo orders Iran to be attacked
impeachment will have greater attention and chance to pass
Can I get one democrat to stand up and say, “Stop with the terra terra terra cry. We are not at risk, the bill has everything needed to conduct surveillance so it is on you to pass it…and kiss my ass while you at it” (Okay scrub the last part but a girl can dream)
I am sorry, this just isn’t true
the crimes that will be demonstrated will so enrage their base they will have no choice
these are the highest of crimes we are talkinb about…I will tell you right now, neither would proceed with the trial so the public does not find out what will be brought before the bar of justice
Yeah, Christy! Don’t you want to teach The Peanut the facts of rabbit life? They multiply “like bunnies,” doncha know? Kids her age can never have too many bunnies!
Great post.
Funny you should mention the “Anti-Federalist Papers.” I’ve never read them, so ordered a copy from Amazon. It arrived yesterday, just as I was reading the FISA vote thread and making calls. Hope to start on it Sunday, with the Federalist Papers by my side, to track the arguments.
BTW, every time I saw/heard the “presnit-wit” yesterday or this a.m., I had to turn radio/tv off to prevent myself throwing something through it.
I can’t believe how much I loathe that
manovergrown spoiled boy.– They don’t want to miss their flights. –
Funny how that works! But man, does it ever work.
I respectfully disagree, look at all the atrocities already committed and the lack of any outrage on the repug and many on the dem side.
Thanks for the fearmongering, Lamar.
Good job. The dead body floating in the river was a nice touch.
I said it’s my opinion, I just don’t see it happening, ok?
The investment bank Bear Stearns is tanking. You can’t see all the crocodile tears I’m shedding over this but I am, a lot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..LncigcerDA
Yes, I thought since the wingnuttiest like to quote Hamilton as justification for power grabs, I’d throw that one out for some contemplation. *g*
Normal reaction from sentient beings. That’s why they keep him in a bubble: to protect him from himself, not us.
the devasting consequences argument…been tried and didn’t work but if at first you don’t succeed, try the talking point again
The Federalist Papers are excellent. I also enjoy dipping into Blackstone. The Avalon Project has Blackstone online.
Blackstone Online
Caution: Blackstone is heavily legalese, and being written in Olde World style, some parts are very dense reading.
i just re-read my response to you, sorry if it came across snippy. I meant to just say that I don’t see the outrage around me to support an impeachment (not counting you all). I would love to see it, I just don’t see it happening
Tom Feeney up to bat for the Fearmonger Party.
Trial Lawyers are evil. Good job, Tom!
My feelings exactly – he’s my (ugh) congresscritter. Called his office yesterday – at least his office person was very nice.
wobblybits–have I mentioned that I love your handle? Makes me smile every time I see it :)
It has to be that the retroactive immunity also absolves the administration from all possible charges after their term of office. The Prez said it yesterday, when he said that the telecoms were assured by the government that what they are doing is legal; now there is at the very least serious doubt about the legality of their actions. This is an attempt to innoculate their own actions, give themselves a blanket pardon, so to speak.
they repeat their mindless babble until the very discussion gives it credibility
they make believe something that is rediculous is a valid opinion, then there is a debate that they created in the first place and they make believe anyone who disagrees is just an opinion
Hole in the dike, not the tip of the iceberg. The usual, “Just normal excess, it’ll correct itself,” somehow never seems to address how long it takes or at who’s cost.
This time, I suspect, its costs will include quite a few at the top, no matter how much Bush tries to bail only them out. The winners of this process will be those outside America who don’t hold dollars, plus a few wealthy supranationalists. Like the price of oil, quite a lot is changing permanently, change accelerated – and to our considerably detriment – by the emotional midget in cowboy boots.
sort of a reverse straw man
the trial lawyers are terrorists
Some dopey Republican just brought up the argument that the telecoms can’t defend themselves because they their defenses are classified. Glenn Greenwald has pointed out numerous times that this is flat out wrong. bmaz has indicated too that the telecoms already have protection from most liability claims. The good version of the PAA allows telecoms the right to present classified material in their defense.
All the Republicans do is repeat all the old stories and arguments that have been previously and on multiple occasions debunked.
Why thank you *g*
I love yours as well, makes me think of summer, lemonade, fat happy bumblebees and lazy afternoons lying on the hammock with a good book and some dryer sheets (mosquito repellant)
How soon before President Shithead starts talking to portraits in the Whitehouse?
-G
got it, thanx for teh clarification.
impeachment will work, they will never go before the bar of justice, they will resign
their depravity is too far reaching and to bizarre, they will never want the public to know it
impeachment will absolutely work
Has anyone the website for this congressional frivolity?
And stop pardons
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Perris:
“…the crimes that will be demonstrated will so enrage their base they will have no choice.”
Absolutely, and that is the terrible injustice of Nancy Pelosi and One Hung Harry Reid, ain’t it…they KNEW the extent of the corruption and insult to the entire system and they didn’t trust the people enough to apply the remedy that the Founders gave us. This is very similar to the dynamic behind Warren Report…the oligarchy and political nobility didn’t believe that the system would survive the outrage of the unwashed masses. This condescendin’ attitude of “we know best” must be put to rest in the next Congress with new leadership in BOTH houses…Pelosi and Reid must go!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND TOOS THE BASTARDS OUT WITH THE BATHWATER!!
their ceo got on the teevee,last week and VEHEMENTLY denied this…he needs to go to jail asap
Yes, well facts have a well-known liberal bias, you know…
The debate is on CSPAN1.
A sad modern limerick
a violent criminal regime faces a test
‘rule of law’ vs. ‘rule by obfuscation’
and no impartial referee,
what will happen,
what possible outcome will their be…
Steve King up:
Protect the rights of the telecoms!
Trial lawyers are evil!
No one’s rights are being violated!
We cannot let my telecom stocks plummet in value!
Thank goodness Nadler is schooling them on separation of branches; courts decided legal cases, not congress
Ladies and gentlemen…AMERICA IS AT WAR….blah blah blah this body has failed to pass a bill that will protect amuricans…blah blah…democrats failing…blah blah…,senate bi-partisan bill ..blah blah… SEPTEMBER 11TH…. Cause you know we should just rubber stamp what the senate does, afterall we are teh suck
They just hang out and wade in the shallow end of the gene pool
this is of course the main reason to do it imo
Mike Pence:
Fatherhood. 9/11 (of course).
Needs work, Mike.
Nice short smack down by Silvestre
110th congress is not a rubberstamp for anyone, not congress and not the administration
Reyes showing some spunk. The House isn’t a rubberstamp for this Prsident or the Senate.
Why shouldn’t they? They always work so well.
The “truth” is about as relevant these days as the buggy whip.
– It has to be that the retroactive immunity also absolves the administration from all possible charges after their term of office. The Prez said it yesterday, when he said that the telecoms were assured by the government that what they are doing is legal; now there is at the very least serious doubt about the legality of their actions. This is an attempt to innoculate their own actions, give themselves a blanket pardon, so to speak. –
I think the surveillance was “illegal” as being outside of the FISA formula, and even if acceptable in the immediate wake of 9/11 (say for a month, or 6) probably representing more intrusive government surveillance than the public would accept as an ongoing activity.
In that formulation, the government doesn’t want the extent of surveillance “out.”
I also think the administration prepared some legal opinions that were particularly weak and troublesome. Exposing those bogus rationales turns a “good deed” (albeit illegal) into something less than honorable — an attempt to remove executive action from public or court scrutiny, a substantial chink against checks and balances.
While I doubt there is any risk of criminal prosecution (or even winning a civil suit, for want of proof of being under surveillance), the above downsides are serious in their own right. They look a bit like Roosevelt’s court-packing scheme, a power-grab.
Looks like at least one dog has crossed to our side. Boswell, Iowa
Thanks. C-Span listed that as the Wisconsin primary coverage.
Chabot, tell me really, who is putting lawsuits ahead of safety, the Dems or the Repubs?
Oh about half have crossed over. Cspan reported that they were being targeted by ‘grassroot activists’ hehehe
Blue dog Boswell must be feelin the heat. s/
I called as did many others and he is speaking in support. Yea!
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
I’m so sorry, I been gettin’ so wrapped up in all the extraenous bullshit that the fascists are dumpin’ out there this AM that I fergot ta ask you the question that has been drivin me batty all week: What is the argument against the charge that removin’ telecom immunity will only benefit the “trial lawyers”?
I know Glen G. has addressed this in the past in Salon but I can’t remember…please help an old man out before my son’s in-laws give me a stroke over this bullshit.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THERE’S JEST TOO MANY TARGETS TO WASTE A SINGLE SHOT!!
that page’s pants are always on fire.
i loves ya!
Well we knew the new talking point of vilifying trial lawyers would have to be trotted out
Steve Chabot continues to spout administration lies about the lack of authority for surveiling foreign terrorists.
hehehehe they have to revert back to getting a warrant awwwwwww
where is the outrage?????
– Oh about half have crossed over. –
That would be 10 blue dogs deciding to vote for the Democratic-prepared language. Heheh. That blows a bit of a hole in the argument that “21 Democrats want to vote for the Senate bill.”
And how many of these mealy mouth motherfuckers on either side are not lawyers?
Steve Chabot:
Trial lawyers are evil!
Be very afraid: we have been naked to terrorist attack for 26 days!
Good job. Got both points in.
more bullsit they have 14 days to surveil…WITHOUT bothering to even get said warrant iirc
Conyers – wake him up; he’s making excellent that the House bill is a “better idea”.
Conyers: The reason we haven’t taken up the senate bill is beacause the House has a better idea and we are co-equal
I LOVE conyers
Bobby Scott up
That is great news. I wonder how many crossed because of the stupidity last evening. Jeeze maybe it will give the Senate some balls.
Is it too much to ask that a member of Congress actually have read the Constitution. I guess if the standard is what the president’s read – forget understands – the answer could only be “No”. But then we can always vote them out, non?”
I know, I know…I chalk it up to them having evolved from the shallow end of the gene pool
Haven’t read all the comments so someone may have pointed this out already. To impeach requires only a simple majority of the House. To convict requires 2/3 of the Senate.
I there a difference between equal and co-equal (for non-lawyers that is)?
That’s the whole ballgame, and they know it.
It’s why there is no room for compromise on immunity.
They know if immunity doesn’t pass, “Vacation Villas in Paraguay” will become the top search item in “The Google” on and around Pennsylvania Ave. in DC.
It seems they are starting to get a mite testy. This is going well.
i know that, i’m saying they wouldn’t get a conviction and to add to that, I don’t think that there is enough public support for impeachment
Basically, the lawsuits against the telecoms are not being handled by ”trial lawyers” but by the likes of the ACLU and the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation IIRC). These are not high priced attorneys but ones that are doing work in the trenches because they believe in it.
“the principle is analogous to unchecked domestic spying potential of the federal government versus the rights of individuals “to be secure in their persons,” This is a great connection to make, Christy. Yes.
Congressman Gommert Pyle is now telling us the Goopers can’t amend a bill. He’s “bothered no end” that his Dem colleagues think the Goopers are lying.
9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11
restrictive laws..something something huh huh huh put yourself intheir place (hehehe) terra terra
Gohmert:
Republicans are being oppressed. Whaaaaaaaa!
[Boo. Fucking. Hoo.]
Gooper Gohmert from Texas is accusing the Dems of accusing him of “falsely misleading”.
The mind boggles
I thought it was clever to reward him with some time to speak on his decision.
teehee he did sound like him. I kept waiting for him to say, “Well gaww-ly”
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen nomolos and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“Jeeze maybe it will give the Senate some balls.”
Yes indeed, and impeachment will get the topic of Obama’s pastor outta the headines and into the slop pail where it belongs!
KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP THE HEAT ON…WE DON’T HAFTA WAIT FOR THE DEVIL TA FRY THOSE BASTARDS IN HELL!!
D. Rep Eshoo from California can actually speak in complete sentences. Articulate. Accurate. She’ll never work in the White House.
Hence another bullshit obfuscation and repetative talking point.
Ya Anna NO IMMUNITY for the Telcos
It’s a talking point tested GOP bullshit maneuver — they are trying to say that nonprofits like EFF and the ACLU, who are leading these cases and who have contracted with some firms to help with the litigation are “in it for profit” as opposed to discovery purposes. As though following the law and enforcement thereof isn’t important as a means of addressing violations of law. Since the Bush Administration isn’t about to prosecute themselves for breaking the law, folks like ACLU and EFF have had to push forward civil suits to get at the truth of what has happened — so the GOP is falling back on their “trial lawyers are scary” schtick to raise yet another shiny object to distract people from the fact that the Administration used telecoms to knowingly break the FISA laws.
Not buying their distraction, thanks…
Fantastic post, Christy. I really digg it!
Anna is very very smart and will go a long way in DC is she chooses to stay with it.
I’ll sum this up, The Dems stand there talking sense and reason and the Republicans quiver in fear of islmofascist caliphaters rowing there way over here right now
OK, but your original statement was that to impeach required 2/3 vote. Just being specific. Comes with my career field of Quality Assurance.
extending constution protection to terrah-rists
oh NOW your worried about the Taliban (then WTF are we doing in Iraq)??
McCaul of Texas falsely says the Dem bill provides US Const’l protections to foreign terrorists. Lions and tigers and bears, oh, my. The only good thing that comes from mating a horse and donkey is that a mule is sterile.
Undersood, I wasn’t quite alert at the time when I typed that but I assure you that I google before I run my mouth (or my fingers) *g*
And yer damn right this is all about Chimpy wanting to cover his ass. I wish I could find the video of when he stood on the steps and basically admitted that he had broken the law doing this and flat out dared someone to do something about it.
Here ya go, jerk.
Conyers calling bullshit on the Rs!
Debbie WS…needs to slooooooooooooooooooooow down
hmmm wasserman schultz ..isn’t she a blue dog
Conyers is demonstrating that he’s a vertebrate.
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Thanx Sister Smith…I owe ya another one.
KEEP THE FAITH AND LISTEN TO YER MOTHERS!!
Blackburn willllllllllllllllll need to go asap
We have gone round and round this before. Support for an impeachment of Nixon was 26% before the investigations began 4 months later IIRC he was gone. Current support for impeachment is in the 40% range considerably higher than it was then. Even if impeachment did not succeed at least there would be an investigation and an airing of the all of the criminality this Administration has been responsible for.
State of Exception by Giorgio Agamben is required reading for anyone who wants to understand the kind of government that has come into being with the presidency of George Bush. It is not new. It has taken many forms under the old European monarchical system and during the 19th and 20th centuries under dictatorships. The American experience is unique because you have a group in control of the executive running a private war for private, nearly occult, reasons. This is not a war of the American nation or the state. The apparatus of war has been hijacked by men with a project. But you also have an authoritarian movement that has nothing but contempt, even fear, of liberal democratic government.
On one hand you have George Bush making claims, albeit through the council of men around Dick Cheney, that are more than a little similar to those made by Charles I of England. His contempt for the power of parliamentary bodies is indistinguishable. His claims are exactly what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they tried to create a form of government that would stymie the ambitions of despots. In addition there is a political movement called conservative in the US that has reformulated many of the legal and political arguments of authoritarian Germans from the early part of the 20th century. Read the jurist Carl Schmitt and Ernst Fraenkel’s Dual State. The similarity is so striking that you cannot help but think John Yoo and David Addington are scholars of this esoteric legal literature. Essentially they believe the world is too dangerous for anything less than a permanent war dictator.
cboldt, perhaps the real motivation for the ferocious effort on retroactive immunity is from the Rethugs’ true masters: megacorps.
McConnell certainly carries their water; on a broader level, Bush/Cheney also do so (while Cheney’s unitary exec fetish simply hands over Federal power for megacorp use).
From this perspective, the rational motivation for attachement to retroactive immunity is clear: that’s what the megacorps want.
It took me about 15 minutes to all all own representatives, plus all the DailyKos listed Blue Dogs.
Boren’s office told me I ought to be calling my own congress people – I said I already had.
Melancon is pronounce “M’la’sah,” very nifty and cajun, but don’t be thrown when they answer the phone and there are no hard consonants in the name.
I believe Boyd’s office said he would be supporting the amendment.
no, 30 something dem.
Oh noeeeees abdication of the liberal majority’s repsonsibility damn dems
Marsha Blackburn:
Lib-er-uls are evil!
Trial lawyers are evil!
okay, you have convinced me…won’t speak my opinion again on the matter
Blackburn……….. will be targeted for election dumping…we must find a suitable dem to RUN against her
thanks
Blackburn is bullshitting Trail Lawyer crap again. The Republicans always play the trial lawyer card….
ASSHOLES
… its OK for them to have lawyers but not for us …..double standard ya think??
pelosi: the president is wrong and i think he knows it.
me: liar, liar, pants on fire!
Pelosi – protecting America while protecting our civil liberties. About frigging time!
The president is wrong. Immunity may already exist; decide by judge, not by hundreds of people (Schiavo?) who haven’t the facts.
I’d love to see the focus group data on corporate lawyers vs. trial lawyers.
Phillip Morris, meet Erin Brockovich (sp?)
find a dem to beat her….Memphis
I like your version better
30 Something Working Group
Pelosi or her staff have been reading those DFH blogs.
Was off running errands and took a long time to catch up. Glad to see Pelosi calling out Bush’s lies again. I also enjoyed hearing from Anna Eshoo. I remember voting for her when she first ran. Too bad I moved out of that district a very long time ago.
Nancy saying this is about protecting the admin.
Nancy is show some SPIN WOW who would’a known after taking IMPEACHMENT off the table….
1,780 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen wobblybits:
“hmmm wasserman shultz…isn’t she a bluedog”
No, and that’s what’s discouragin about her articulation of support for fascist congresspersons from Florida…jeezus, it jest blows my mind and makes me wanna send her ta remedial social studies. She a member a the “30 Something” workin’ group…Congressman Meeks has been a wimp on this too.
With help like these, who needs cancer fer God’s sake!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND SAVE SOME HEAT FOR OUR “FRIENDS”!!!
This is the true value of an impeachment investigation.
This bill restates that FISA is the exclusive authority for e-surveillance. Nancy P.
Not even during a Dem administration?
BINGO……BADA BING!!!!!
Thanks Nancy for sticking up for the Constitution!
I hope that Nance means what she says.
reddddddddddd herrrrrrrrrrrrrings!
Lamar regurgitating McConnell and Mukasey bullshit.
Well, here’s a thought for you Georgie: liberty and security are not mutually exclusive.
I’ve argued before that they’re one in the same:
I must admit I have a bad feeling about that secret session they had yesterday. What kind of ghost stories were they telling there? Among other things, freedom means that you can confront bogus arguments with the facts. In closed sessions, where no one is allowed to talk about what they’ve been told, that’s not possible.
Lamar Smith lying again
Beacause the attorney general has our best interest at heart…odious Lamar please.stop.it.now.
rhetorical statement.
odious perfect words…..this guy in the wheel chair not a good speaker sadly
Only Gooperville administrations, natch. They don’t want anybody who speaks English well working here, much anyone who speaks Arabic to work in Iraq. They might know the difference between what goes in the cow and what comes out.
What do fish have to do with Christy?
It’s the Bluntster!
ewwwww Roy Blunt
Roy “the bluntly discredited” Blunt
Blunt talking about facts. That’s pretty self-canceling.
Blunt in the well, “the problem with this bill today is that it won’t become law” because the Chimperor in Chief won’t sign it because it will come back and bite him and his cronies in the butt.
To Blunt et al their job is to protect corpo america at all costs. period.
She’s not on the list of 21 blue dogs that I sent a letter to yesterday, although I don’t always like the way she votes. However, I’ve seen her on TV time and again, and she is quite impressive. Kinda like Webb; he sounds a lot better than his votes would imply. But they are on the right (that is, left) side of this issue, I believe.
why is he just LYING HIS ASS OFF?
Re Lamar Smith, as far as I’m concerned, Mukasey made himself irrelevant when he declined to enforce legally-issued subpoenas. Shorter version: Why should anyone give a shit what Mukasey thinks?
Langevin from RI— anti-choice anti-stem cell owned by the Catholic church Langevin.
Blunt is so sharp. “Doing what we asked them to do after 9/11.” I guess the law is just furniture to move around, put on the porch, or in the bin at his whim. But he then conflates “orders” and “lawful orders”, and only “voluntary compliance” makes telecoms do their thing for Shrub.
Debbie WS was good until Rahmbo et al recruited her into leadership. Then she started toeing the DLC line.
Keith Ellison!
thanks Ann, I wasn’t sure about her
Uh oh the muslislamicfacist …why is he allowed to talk? The FISA bill is desinged to protect us against people like him, no? (/snark)
I would have greatly preferred the session to be open – I’m still hoping one of the Dem memebers will simply expose the whole farce by diverging it from the floor in debate.
But I’m also confident that nothing shared among 435 people will stay “secret” for long. Irrespective of legal strictures, that’s way too many people to keep information “secret”.
Ol’ Roy sees the writing on the wall. His and Chimpnuts lies are no longer effective. It’s a lot of fun to see that prick squirm! RAAAAAWWWW!
OT
Bernake on CNBC, speechifying about mortgage crisis.
It would seem that the choreography has not been well planned.
Why McCain Might Win
He can sit back while the Dems tear each other to shreds.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/123248
No dipshit Conyers did not say HE had a better idea rather YOU ALL had a better idea
Lawd, the evil lawyer argument again and now the good samritan argument (they are still good samaritans when they cut off your service for non-payment of a bill?)
A Thornberry in the side. Telecoms “voluntary answered the requests from their government, the “call” from their country”. I liked his lying pun.
What the hell is Mac Dingleberry’s real first name??? I’ll bet it’s just awesome!
They’re still lying about the telecoms not cooperating. They’re doing it now, you idiot!
who is this clown from TX?
How long does this nonsense go on until the vote? I don’t recall.
I believe that the next Democrat who comes up to speak should ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record a simple document that lays out the repetitive and false claims by the GOP on this matter and, from there, shut down any further GOP comments as superfluous…and move to vote on the bill NOW.
The document outlining the GOP position should simply read: “Whatever Bush says is OK with us. This body should be a rubberstamp. Any protection of the 4th Amendment or any other Amendment is anti-American and gives aid and comfort to the enemy terra-ists.”
That takes care of the entirety of the GOP position. I mean, c’mon! Let’s move this to the end. This nonsense chatter from the retarded monkeys on the right is just a literal waste of time. There is NO content in their yammerings. There is not a single shred of objective truth in anything they have said, except for the bit about “Bush will veto”. SO WHAT?! LET him veto. Then we can just ride this out with the old FISA bill in full effect as is until Bush is out of office.
That would be even better than passing ANY bill that expands illegal spying powers.
OK- now the telecoms are “Good Samaritans” Good one Thornberry
I’m perplexed too, what the hell is he talking about?
Thornberry seems to think the telecoms only have Gohmert Pyle as their lawyer. They have several hundred of the best and brightest in their lucrative employ. They know the law as well, or better, than their counterparts at the FCC and DOJ. The lying is relentless.
According to the Republicans, the “telecoms” are so patriotic that it really surprised me that they and their executives and the children of those executive haven’t all enlisted to fight over in Iraq, just saying.
AP – Trying to calm jitters about the economy, President Bush conceded on Friday that the country “obviously is going through a tough time” but expressed confidence that it will rebound. He cautioned against overreacting to fix the problems.
The point is that nothing really got “shared” because the Dems called Blunt’s bluff and gave him a session for which he had not, in reality, planned to divulge anything remotely useful. And the GOP came off as a bunch of manipulative assholes who were trying a stunt to delay the legislative process another day…which ended up not only backfiring with Dems and a number of the Blue Dogs, but also with a number of GOPers who I hear were royally pissed at Blunt for pulling this with absolutely nothing in hand and making them all look like idiots for backing him on it.
if immunity goes down, does the administration have to give back all of the info they obtained illegally?
Thornberry:
Poor, poor telcos. We should thank them for being such good Samaritans.
Trial lawyers are evil!
harman starts off talking of her grandchildren
Jane Harmon—who has become a much better rep since she was primaried last cycle.
Wow – Thornberry saying that the responsibility and blame is on the congress for not providing oversight. Wow, thems some pretty big balls, there.
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Try telling that to the families of dead American GI’s killed in Iraq. Or for that matter to the people of Iraq.
I’m also confident that nothing shared among 435 people will stay “secret” for long. Irrespective of legal strictures, that’s way too many people to keep information “secret”
Not until after they vote, I’m willing to bet. After the vote, I suspect that whatever comes out will be added to the NSA’s keyword list.
No, then it goes back to the Senate…or to a conference, depending on how they work this. Then to the WH for the Shrub to veto and whine about…and so it goes.
HARMON SUUUUUUUUUUX
Harmon out of her box, in daylight, telling us about her grandchildren and a dangerous world, responses to which must comply with the rule of law. Good points, all.
Did he do a song and dance to go with it as well? It has become ever clearer that this man is one taco shy of a combination plate
is your middle name Arbitrades?
I must say I was impressed with Nancy’s attack against Chimpnuts. That’s one of the strongest attacks she’s delivered.
I’m still getting caught up here. How do you know this?
slightly O/T
Have you all notice how homogeneous everyone looks on the republican side? It’s like they are all from the same loaf of wonderbread (no offense)
Just the thought that this is might be true makes me smile. Can ya tell I really, really despise Roy??
pretty darn good
Who is this dip?
And Bush instructs our soldiers in Afghanistan yesterday, they are “on a romantic mission”.
I agree that an investigation would be helpful, to say the least. I would also dearly love to see this administration prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for all their many wrongdoings. Your list is very long, and we have a many things to choose from. And while I don’t consider the investigations themselves a waste of time, I keep wondering why none of them has produced anything. Lurita Doan, for instance, has obviously used her position to break the Hatch act into little bitty pieces, yet they didn’t charge her, they didn’t attempt even impeachment of her. Why? What is it we don’t know that is going on here. If they investigated half of the obvious stuff, Halliburton profiteering from both the Iraq war and Katrina, etc. etc. etc., this Congress would be very busy and our election chances would be increased greatly with the exposures. So, WTF?
go conyers
Mike Rogers:
Our brave American businesses are just dying to “take a bite out of crime”.
Trial lawyers are evil!
Conyers..slow, steady, deadly
The “trial lawyers” should henceforth refuse to represent Republicans. Don’t like trial lawyers? Fine. Screw you.
While there are some limitations, I’d be OK with living by the FISA bill. Assuming, of course, that Congress is willing to enforce it.
Yeah. I like looking at them before the namebar comes up and trying to peg them as Rethug or dem by look alone. My success rate is pretty good.
Mike Rogers of MI lyingly states this bill would require FISA warrants to eavesdrop on foreign targets overseas. Not, I believe, unless the node their comms are sent over rests on US soil, a technical fix that doesn’t require gutting the Fourth Amendment. He’s saying nobody can Help under this law – because of this bill and the TRIAL LAWYERs.
My, my, the Goopers are talking about “all being in this together”. The party that lives and breath hateful division; its hypocrisy couldn’t be more stark.
w00t Lee [D-CA]
Ask yourself Speaker Pelosi: If you had proceeded with impeachment hearings, how many lives might have been saved?
707!
Oh, yeah, she’s the difinitive politician! She works a lot Specteramous…one day one thing, next day something else.
Obama is catching up with Hillary in superdelagate strength (very close now). And I’m glad.
– if immunity goes down, does the administration have to give back all of the info they obtained illegally? –
My take on the situation, if Congress doesn’t “grant immunity,” is that the pending cases in court (all out in Cali right now, consolidated before Judge walker) continue to their natural end.
The legal process is court is affected by the House bill (the telecoms are given statutory permission to pierce state secrets via disclosing information in ex parte, in camera setting — that is where only the court sees the defense, and the court is duty bound to not reveal classified information), but I think the outcome is the same in all of the pending cases. You won’t like my prediction, that the plaintiffs lose, but I see that as the most likely conclusion.
Which makes the demand for retroactive immunity all the more bizarre, to me. It isn’t needed.
Watching C-Span now. Jane Harman nailed it. The Republicans are trying to compare telecomm immunity to protecting our children from rapists.WTF.Watching these proceedings is like jumping in and out of reality.
It sounds like not many speakers are left. I presume that means they will be voting soon.
Could it be? It is FINALLY coming to a close so the vote on the decent bill will come and the GOP and go home in a fit of tantrum?
Inslee gives a speech!
Go Jay Inslee, channelling the spirit of 1776!
That is good and I can’t wait for this to be over with as I am ready to go to war with McCain. (have my boots ready, bottled water and plenty of trail mix)
Christy, you just made my day. Laughing out loud with a sinus infecton (oww) was worth it for that news. Thanks.
wow…he is good
How the heck are you? I’ve missed your live blogging (and sarcasm) :)
And what about the folks with kids, etc., facing home forclosure?
AP – Bear Stearns Cos., one of Wall Street’s venerable investment banks, received a bailout Friday by the federal government and JPMorgan Chase & Co. in a surprise, last-ditch effort to save the 86-year old institution.
Jackson Lee!!!
awwww, that was short!
Ugh. More minutes of mindless hell.
Heard it from several staffers and referenced it obliquely in a comment further up the thread…
I’m well. Been real busy at work. And, really there’s nothing as much fun as live-blogging Alberto and he’s well, toast.
They’d be giving up half their business if they did that.
Gad. Hoekstra. “Trust us”. Just STFU!
I can’t wait to boot-up and expose the R’s for what they are.
Hokey Hoekstra…FEAR FEAR…Your children are gonna die! What a loser!
HOEKSTRA…….red herrings…9/11,9/11…ISRAEL,ISRAEL
dems are cowering cowards cowards…wait for the money line…..
unbelievable…this country is so in the tank
Ahh, those were the days.
They ARE spying on us all you moron!
This robot hasn’t been paying attention to the latest information released in the press.
They ARE spying on EVERYONE, especially Democrats, Quakers and other peace activists, Democratic governors, nuns, environmentalists, and anyone else that could possibly dissent.
president Rabbi Shapiro
R. Rep. Hoekstra – “Those governing should take responsibility for their actions.”
Who has another barf bag, please?
More Republican bullshit to cover Bushco’s ass
Hoekstra-Why are we going home with the work unfinished, one more time?
he brought up the troops? ummm how aobut giving them safe, clean wate, food, vests, healthcare, etc.
They wear that patriotism thing when it suits them no matter how idiotic it sounds, huh?
He should ask the famous question, “Why am I here?”
Hoekstra, kowtowing to AIPAC, hopes we don’t need a rabbi bemoaning our loss and how we could have done more to save George Bush from criminal prosecution. Snark
Hoekstra:
No Americans are being spied on.
The terrorists are being spied on.
[wtf?]
American companies give me a hard on.
Be afraid.
Protect America or DIE!
Democrats suck.
Why, why, why…
I’ve been using a garbage bag
OT but Blue America relevant.
dot connecting between Ward fraudulent money and attacks on our own Darcy Burner.
http://www.horsesass.org/
don’t know the site is it credible?
We have stripped our schools of the money needed to educate our kids. Many cannot afford health care. People are losing their homes and jobs. Many have a hard time putting food on their tables for the kids. But Bear Stearns gets a bailout. And if we are not careful McCain may win.
I would love to comment on what Hoekstra just said but it was too incoherent. Something about terrorist and we are all going to die.
rotflmao
Go John Tierney… tell the bastards that we will not give up our rights… NO IMMUNITY…
No info on admins request to Telcos no immunity
Yea, too many houses up for sale in the Hamptons already. It’ll be the Vineyard next if the Fed doesn’t step up their bailouts. Protect homeowners in bankruptcy? Not so much.
fukkkkkkkkkkkerz…0/11,9/11,9/11,9/11
Noooooooooo not Lungren, I can’t even listen to him talk he makes my blood boil
– Heard it from several staffers and referenced it obliquely in a comment further up the thread… –
Besides being irked about being yanked into a secret session on false pretenses, it would really be something if a Republican other than Ron Paul voted in favor of the Democratic-prepared FISA language. That would represent a serious chink in the armor.
Kind of disquieting.
Lungren-we’re afraid! 9/11! Not one iota of evidence that Americans have been spied on!
lunndgren must be a shitttttty lawyer…imo
I see the error of my ways after listening to the current Republican. The telecoms should not be granted immunity they should receive the Medal of Honor. Getting all choked up here.
Lungren needs to drop the caffeine.
I offer the following be entered in the record by unanimous consent:
Use by the idiots across the aisle of their roboton’s position on this or that committee prior to letting them have the mike to speak Bush’s words for him is unanimously recognized as a pathetic and baseless attempt to ‘argue from authority’ and thus anything and everything such robotons say must be taken as false.
He is one of the many boils on the ass of California
Lungren, looking a lot like Kramer.
everybody hates chimpass
I would love it — but I’m not betting the farm that personal irritation will trump Pavlovian voting structures and a desperate need for lock-step action to get meager financing pledges for them from GOP leadership. SIGH
R. Rep. Lundgren – “not one iota of evidence that the telecom companies acted inappropriately”. Who put up the evidence? Those darn Trial Lawyers let loose on the good Samaritan telecoms. Did anybody not read the Rove talking points this morning?
Protect telecoms and the president for “doing good”; hell with the law.
WTF does a state attorney general know about classified national intelligence? Why should anyone take their opinion seriously?
Lungren:
Trial lawyers are evil!
Protect the Good Samaritans!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
here is a tissue
Hokey did it for me, I’m all verklempft
Here is one of my favorite Repug grnadstands this morning on FISA. The telecoms are called Good Samaritans. Now that’s funny! The government paid the telecoms for their spying. What kind of twisted mind sees them as one and the same? It is better than watching Comedy Central.
I just finished my Bush Dog calls. I got through too quickly. Maybe we need more calls.
horsesass is spoken highly of among NW bloggers – I don’t read it, but it seems to have a good rep. Here’s the permalink, BTW. That article’s already off the front page.
lol! great way to put it redd.
Hoyer: The Administration chose not to follow the law.
they chose NOT to follow the law
That’s what I was thinking! LOL! I think he was advertising for some lawyering business after he gets his pompous ass kicked out of Congress.
Go Steny tell everyone that this administration has not been following the law from the beginning!!
Hoyer – “we don’t need to follow the law” says Cheney and the administration.
And that is why we will not impeach!
Wait…that doesn’t make sense. I ask
unanimous consent that any comments I made about Bush disobeying the laws be struck from the record or it might suggest impeachment is necessary.
i bet the honest juges hate him…slimey
HOYER may be smart…..lousy speaker
Go Steny! He’s protecting the Constitution. About time.
next door Marcy describes horses ass as “very credible”
A guy’s gotta earn a living. Think about it – they chose to take that money, instead of doing something dishonest like being trial lawyers. [/SNARK]
Hoyer kicking some ass.
Steny ripping the Republicans! Go Steny!
Great job, Steve Hoyer. I want the rest of the hour back.
Wow, hoyer kicked some ass
Hoyer talking Oath of Office!!!111
Go . Go . Go
I hope there’s a quick YouTube of Steny’s speech!
Whoops. That’s Steny!
STENY rose to the occaison
Hoyer earns his equity card with a great speech. Wish he’d worked that way all the time.
Good close by Hoyer, drawing on Senator Rockefeller’s statement of March 11.
Roll call vote underway … on final passage
Tried to pull a voice vote-”the ayes have it”- a Republican asked for a yea/nay vote.
Passes on voice vote; recorded vote demanded; in process.
Assholes. YOU LOST GOPers. You LOST. Accept it. You are LOSERS.
Get used to that fact, losers.
Force a recorded vote just to delay a pointless 15 minutes.
strict party line vote so far
Hey, I just got a nice letter on official stationary yesterday from my Rep., Pete Stark. I think I am going to frame it – hoping his words will have historical significance someday:
Dear Ms. (Jacqrat):
Thank you for writing with regard to granting retroactive immunity to telecommunication companies. We agree.
The extent to which individuals’ constitutional rights may have been violated by Bush’s so-proclaimed (my bold)anti-terrorism efforts is staggering. Based on his track record for respecting the most basic of civil liberties, the President is hardly deserving of a “Get out of jail free” card, particularly when the rights of so many citzens are at stake.
You may be assured that I will not support any legislation that blocks investigation of the telecommunications companies in question.
Sincerely,
Pete Stark
Member of Congress
Now THAT is what you call a REPRESENTATIVE! Thanks, Pete!
I was surprised you thought Hoyer was a poor speaker. I considered him to be one of the better extemporaneous orators in the House.
Holding steady, no defections by either side…!
Whoah. People calling in are pissed. The rethug saying Dems are absolutely disgusting. The Dem talking about the founding fathers.
Hey, nice! :)
he kept flubbing his words….he should practice more,thats all
Typical Floridian republican. SO sadly misinformed about what is really going on… Saying Democrats should be punished for their actions at the polls next time around. Yeah, keep that thought, buddy. I think Rush is back on now, you can go back to the radio….
good let all the repukes go down
interesting how the calls are breaking, huh? Name calling versus pesky facts
Who’s the dem who just crossed over?
And we have our first defection on the dem side
Is this vote for the actual bill?
Yes.
Let that dog stand alone. Buh-by.
HOBE SOUND is in palm beach conty…very expensive,used to be resticted to jews,and the guy soundedlike a NY Jew,so another case of…i finally got MINE ,the rest of you should STFU …”G”
Why aren’t the dems voting faster?
I move that the official name for the Republican party be changed to Nationalsozialistische Amerikaner Arbeiterpartei.
Yep, if there is only one, they should win the “poll” for how to spend our ActBlue special FISA fund in advertising.
Okay, whose critter is that that crossed over??? Come and claim them
restricted…that is…oh the irony
I live in a Republican district in a state with two Republican Senators. I still wrote my representative just now (quoting you, Christy) the following: “I just read that the FISA bill without telecom immunity passed 221-188 on a largely party line vote. Although you are a Republican, I hope you voted with the majority. Ben Franklin famously said that we have a Republic, if we can keep it. The President’s immunity provisions would undermine our Republic. You are a person of good sense. I hope you voted that way.
Sincerely,”
Probably wasted effort. But she (my rep) needs to know.
2
sadly it reflects onthe repug party of today, didn’t used to be THIS damn horrendous
Two crossovers now. I expect at least ten before we are done.
the blue dog founder (Kramer) is retiring
is another puke retiring?
one R crossover . . . .Ron Paul maybe? Any other candidates?
what are the odds that they will wait until the final minutes to make sure the bill is passing before they vote?
oh my,poor enviorement huh?
One Repug yes. Was Paul expected to vote yes?
Whipping possibly??
opps Cramer not Kramer
oy
3
What do you call the non voting dems? Blue weasels?
That’s the usual pattern.
never mind. Whomever it was took it back. 4 bad dems now.
4
sheeeeesh
That Republic cross over just disappeared from the vote tally on the screen.
Yep, i will support the candidates that will run against the blue dogs (be that they are progressive of course)
6 now
We only need 9 more yeas
I don’t get it. Why do they keep voting when the time has already run out?
whi was the yellow belly that voted present?
The one GOP vote Yea was reversed. Wonder who’s child will now get into Harvard or not have their re-election opposed by Karl’s Kids. Can’t say much about the priorities of those six Dems voting Nay.
wtf
There were 10 voting no the last I saw. What’s going on now?
kewllllllllllllllllllll
231-197 to one present.
We win.
It went to 11 dems think. But we won 213 to 197.
Who answered “present”?
how can we find out who the 11 democrats are that defected?
So is the Senate doing pro-forma to keep the chimperor from making more recess appts.?
We got it passed! Now the ball’s back in the Senate’s court with no Immunity!!!!
they need to go
Yes, it was announced yesterday. Thanks for the fun folks, I gotta run.
It may not be the last word but it is a good way to end this week at least. My congratulations to the House Democrats and *gasp* the House leadership.
That they are, Rev… No recess appointments for chimpy!
What do you call the non voting dems? Blue weasels?
Obamas.
Got here just in time for the vote … those Dems who wanted telecom immunity deserve a deluge of faxes and e- mails reminding them of their duty to protect the entire Constitution, not just parts of it …
LMAO.
I suspect the Ovular Office – more likely, the bike room – will need a few new wastebaskets, and the Shrubster will need another boot. The president’s door is reportedly closed tightly; Mr. Cheney has opened his safe to make sure the seven daggers are still there; the rotweilers certainly are. Whew.
anyone know where I can find out who the 11 dems voting nay were – before the house page gets around to posting them (in about a half hour) ???
Yes.
An amazing turnaround compared with the stampede that was underway a few weeks ago.
This really complicates passage of FISA reform, and the hot potato is headed over to the Senate.
Proposals to extend the PAA to July 2009 will look different, more attractive, now that the House has refused to agree to retroactive immunity on the Senate’s terms.
I just got this online, but it’s confusing. Show’s 8 NV’s and 3 nays.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll144.xml
Rut Row the NSA has interrupted C-SPan…
Yep – hard as it is to say.
I feel like I’m hallucinating, but I haven’t used any drugs yet this morning.
Perhaps I shouldn’t risk the English Breakfast today.
oh. my.
they did it(?!) *peeking out from under sofa*
replay of today’z preznitspeelch being run now, amid much stammer.
gee. ya think? mebbe he DOES notice.
good on ya Steny & Nancy & sordid other dastardly upstart House of Representatives members. Woo Hoo! says she, guardedly; waiting for next shoe to drop.
Here are the dems they say didn’t vote:
Boustany
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Cramer
Cubin
Gilchrest
Hinojosa
Hooley
Hunter
LaHood
Meeks (NY)
Musgrave
Nunes
Oberstar
Peterson (PA)
Pickering
Rangel
Rush
Tancredo
Weller
Woolsey
Young (AK)
That’s a relief.
We’ll get roll call which tells how they voted for Thomas.gov as soon as it posted. Then we will know who the traitors are.
oops, maybe that’s all the non votes.
Chimpy not getting his way. That means it’s time for another terrorist scare.
ROFL
Aw c’mon! Have a sip of sherry with me before the panic waves start a-rippling.
I don’t know how to link to the kos lead but I don’t want anyone to forget the president issued an executive order gutting inteligence oversight;
lol!
Did anyone else hear that “news” bit?
The US has captured a high-level terrorist that helped bin Laden escape from Afghanistan (Tora Bora, I’d guess?). Doesn’t say when or where or anything like that. Just that he was handed over to the Pentagon this week.
Seems like awfully convenient timing, but we all know that the Administration would NEVER have news releases for purely political purposes.
BTW, you’re close. I believe there was just an announcement that another alQ leadership type was apprehendiated.
IIRC, Hooley is from Oregon and is retiring, no excuse for not voting but there is something in the back of my head that keeps trying to tell me she has been fighting an illness. Don’t quote me on that.
that would be bush then, they cought the president..,I wonder if they arrested him
all it needed was the “Badda Bum!” to make it complete.
oh how cute – some lil’ fella/gal voted “present” on accepting the daily journal. mebbe we just need a little lie-down with a cool compress on the feverish brow.
Not surprised, it is friday
Hey. The “Lady Cougars” won the state championship in OH. Meow!
I would have put it a bit different.
Not surprised, the admin needed a distraction.
Wow. My DNS queries to the house.gov domain are all failing. That didn’t take long.
Surge in IQ leading to real progress. Who knew!
Special order stuff in Congress should be rated like movies.
I’m gettin’ whiplash.
Click.
*ahhhh*
Link to Roll Call vote in HTML instead of XML (handy for, ummm, “lame” browsers, like the one I prefer to use) It’s not up yet.
http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin…..number=145
Roll call posted.
Library of Congress
Who said Damien looks like Sam Neill?
Dems voting No:
Boren
Capuano
Carney
Cooper
Filner
Hinchey
Holden
Kucinich
Lampson
McDermott
Shuler
Welch (VT)
Dem voting present:
Davis, Lincoln
Thank you for the list
Democrats voting NAY: Boren, Capuano, Carney, Cooper, Filner, Hinchey, Holden, Kucinich (not a “blue dog”), Lampson, McDermott, Shuler and Welch (VT)
So, 10 of the 21 “blue dogs” who were in favor of the Senate bill, changed their minds.
Just my little way of giving back to the community.
And avoiding work ;)
Lincoln Davis (D-TN) proudly lists hisownself as a member of the Demo bluedawgpuppies and is surely the very essence of proper congressionational decorum.
Presumably in that spirit, he voted “present”.
http://www.house.gov/lincolndavis/bio/
not sure how my 442 might affect your assessment.
thanks, cboldt
Kucinich?
Why? anyone know?
Sheila Jackson Lee now offering a delightful breath of fresh air on C-Span.
YOU GO GRRL!!! Woo Hoo!
It will be released that this yet another number 3 or 2 man in Al Qaeda was captured ONLY because of warrantless, illegal spying on Americans before the Democrats in the House let PAA expire.
and necessary, carefully, respectfully applied torture(?)
We’re not done with today’s vote…
My first thought, as well. Ain’t heard it yet…….but give the goopers time. :-(
My guess is that Kucinich figured the bill gave too much snooping power, or some similar objection “in the other direction.”
And on comparing the letter signed by 2 “blue dogs,” I see that only 5 of them reversed position, not 10.
Boren, Capuano (not a “Blue dog”), Carney, Cooper, Filner (not a “blue dog”), Hinchey (not a “blue dog”), Holden, Kucinich (not a “blue dog”), Lampson (not a “blue dog”), McDermott (not a “blue dog”), Shuler and Welch (VT) (not a “blue dog”)
If that’s Jim McDermott, he’s not a blue dog, either. My guess is that he voted against this thing for reasons similar to Kucinich’s, whatever those might have been.