There’s really not much more to say about this that has not already been said elsewhere, but I just wanted to pile on a bit, as it’s gotten beyond disgusting. Ferraro’s unrepentant comments are beyond the pale and the Clinton campaign should take serious, serious crap for keeping her on the campaign finance committee. This kind of unreconstructed, race blind idiocy (at best, blatantly ignorant racism at worst) needs to be called out by Senator Clinton, personally, in my view.
- Shakesville has some thoughts (h/t Atrios).
- Speaking of Atrios, "The Unbearable Whiteness of Being" gets my vote for snarky blog headline of the day.
- Markos digs up a prior quote of Ferraro’s about Jesse Jackson and lowers the boom.
- Mother Jones offers some video blog commentary on the matter.
- I’ll leave you all with Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow from Countdown last night (UPDATE: C&L has the video):
OLBERMANN: I can‘t then, without having you here, let you have an opportunity to vocalize your thoughts on what Howard Fineman was reporting about the comments today, the second set of comments today from Geraldine Ferraro, implying that the Clinton campaign is repudiating her and firing her from its finance committee because it doesn‘t mind this idea of Barack Obama being an equal opportunity hire being out there, you know, without Senator Clinton‘s name directly on it.
MADDOW: For anybody to be saying that Barack Obama is only where he is because he is black, that black men are so privileged in America, that that‘s the only thing that explains his success, because he‘s otherwise unqualified, which is the implication of her comment, would be absolutely offensive, more than regrettable, from anybody commenting seriously on the campaigning. Honestly, you know it would be.
But for this to come from somebody who‘s an official part of the campaign, and for the campaign to not disavow that person and distance themselves is—it‘s an incredible decision and it therefore does make us question whether they are doing it on purpose for some reason.
OLBERMANN: Yes, if we heard this from Robert Novak, if we heard this from Glen Beck, if we heard this from Bill O‘Reilly, we‘d be appalled. I don‘t think we‘d necessarily hear it from some of them. I‘m damming them with faint praise.
Yup.
Photo courtesy of Litandmore.
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zed for The Change
sad yes, but it’s geared towards that ‘alabama’ strip in PA. i don’t think they (clinton campaign) is going to say anything stronger than they already have (it’s a vote getter, afterall) and if Maggie Williams response is any indication, I can’t see too many folks forgiving her by the time the GE rolls around (if she gets the nod)
I, for one, have stopped defending Hillary. I feel so much freer!
Thanks Pach, cuz I really wanted to pile on, too. I first saw GF’s unhappy little face on Newshour last week, waxing illogically about superdelegates and re-do’s for one state but not another, etc etc. It was great to watch Bill Bradley swat her down like a hyper little Westie.
But now this. I become more and more turned off with Clinton’s campaign with each passing day. Dirty pool and don’t tell me Hilary knows nothing of it. If she gets all riled about “pimping” Chelsea (a young lady who should take questions if she’s stumping) then she should get riled about racist comments from her supporters. That’s not what the Democratic Party stands for. Just ridiculous.
Let’s all send the Clintons some mother-effin ice tea.
Ferraro was on billo’s radio smear show yesterday. It was a hatchet job on her part, no question about it.
Billo: Blah blah blah, you’ll get blasted by the far left loons…
Ferraro: Blah blah blah, let me restate my talking point…
Not new views though:
Haven’t we already had 8 years of doing anything to win?
Well, I’ll vote for Clinton in the GE if she is the nominee and facing McSame. But that’s all I will do. No money, no phone banking. Hillary can get Maggie Williams and G.Ferraro to do any necessary work in the trenches.
More dog whistle stuff to shore up some of the Penn. white racist vote. They’re thinking it worked well with the Muslim stuff in OH/TX, so let’s double down.
Seems so blatantly obvious, especially since Hillary won’t “denounce” Ferraro’s comments or kick her off the campaign. In fact, they have Ferraro repeat them more and more to the Poz Newz audience! See a trend here? They are going on Lush Limpdick’s show, and Pox Newz like crazy recently to blow the dog whistles. Shameful!
BTW, Ferraro seems to think her comments are OK since she said she wouldn’t have been picked as VP candidate if she wasn’t a woman. What about her abilities and accomplishments? Where is the outrage with feminists demanding Hillary remove Ferraro from the campaign for such sexist comments!?!?
Olbermann has promised a Special Comment regarding the Clinton campaign this evening.
Isn’t this part of pattern set by Bill Clinton a few weeks ago, after all? Particularly the part about not disavowing said verbal vomit.
…or repudiating.
Isn’t Ferraro just riffing on the idea that Obama is being “uppity”?
Anybody under the delusion that the Clinton campaign has not been cynically playing the race card should be fully disabused of that notion as of today.
Thank you, Pach.
This is waaaay out of bounds.
Someone needs to tell Clinton’s campaign in no uncertain terms will she be allowed to tear the party apart (Gore, Edwards, Richardson – preferably all): Stop the divisive tactics or they publicly get behind Obama 100% and shut her campaign down. She has been given a reprieve by the Superdelegates to make her case for the fall elections. If she uses it to win the battle while losing the war (and betraying all democratic principles in the process), she needs to be told that she will not be allowed to win the nomination. End of story.
I can’t say that anymore as I refuse to reward ’southern dixiecrat’ tactics
I hear ya on the dog whistle but I’m hoping it blows up in their face. Big Time. Major backlash.
This is the crap Americans are so sick of.
What the Clintons are doing is right out of Rove/Chimpy playbook.
Revolting.
I’d be interested to know how many former supporters of Hillary there are out there.
CNN claiming 41 Southwest planes have been grounded. Apologies if this is not really *breaking* newz.
I like that idea but it’s a shame that she has to be told that, afterall, it’s not like she doesn’t know any better
I used to be in this line of thinking as well, but now I don’t know if I’ll vote at all if she’s the nominee. She doesn’t deserve it anymore.
OT – I need to get this on record. Last night, there was a guy named Carlo who showed up saying that Andre Carson, the grandson of Julia Carson, the late Congresswoman for IN7, and who was elected yesterday elected to fill out the remainder of Julia’s term, was a Muslim. This was something that had *never* been reported in the blood-red Indy press, and I more or less accused him of being a troll.
Turns out that he was right – I was wrong, and though I doubt that he’s here, I owe him an apology.
So Carlo, if you happen to see this, I apologize.
For the record, it is NOW being reported in the IndyStar; I had seen nothing about this before. Begs the question as to timing, but I’ll look at that later.
That is all.
The basis of the pattern of her remarks is that black people can’t be serious contenders in any race…that they are given special treatment because of their race, and cannot have any “real” (read white) credentials.
That’s racist.
Yeah. where’s that “superior judgment” and “experience”?
Were the Clintons always this way or does it come from now being pals with the Bush family?
nice of you to do that, if I see him later on, I will direct him to your comment
I think we are being too hard on Ferraro. She probably really does think Obama would be happier barefoot down on the old plantation picking cotton.
BTW, C&L has a thread on Ferraro/Billo with hundreds of comments. People are pissed.
BTW, thanks Pach
I can’t speak for the rest but I needed to get my disappoinment out (anger and sadness happened yesterday..at this rate, i should be at acceptance by the end of the day)
I swallow hard whenever I agree with Howard Fineman’s assessment of anything, but I agree – they are busy, busy, busy baiting the Obama campaign, this is intentional
if Obama weren’t Afro-American and they were still this far behind, it would be something equally incendiary
and sorry, but I can’t look at her and not see Hal Holbrooke in drag
“More dog whistle stuff to shore up some of the Penn. white racist vote. They’re thinking it worked well with the Muslim stuff in OH/TX, so let’s double down.”
Exact-a-mundo!
Scorched earth in full effect.
Nope, he is bi-racial, he would have been a house servant (real lucky)
I think Ferraro would be happier if she did the hormone therapy to deal with The Change.
There, I said it. A misogynistic remark from an old crone who is currently going through it herself! I’m mad as hell and I’m calling the Clinton campaign and Ms. Ferraro on their BS. That’s what crones do.
I can’t imagine she really believes what she is saying. I think she’s being a hard-ass for Hillary. All the more disgusting.
So Clinton is saying (through Ferraro) that a Black man is where he is because of his skin color. Then she goes into an African American neighborhood and says Black men can’t get ahead because of their skin color.
This is leadership? Whatever claim she had to the high road is forever gone.
I’m solidly in the Obama camp now. And I really was undecided until a few hours ago.
And if I seem to be flinging poo…so be it.
Ferraro is the last straw for me. Here’s what I just sent the Clinton campaign via their “contact” template:
______________
Here was my first one:
Really pissed.
I hope you are right.
The question being: Where did Carlo did that piece of information? From a reich wing web site? That’s not a Lake name I recognize; right you were to question presence of troll.
Hi, Pach! Wasn’t it only a few days ago that you had the post about holding people accountable? It’s time to write and ask Hillary to speak about her opponents assets.
Hillary and Ferraro keep getting dirtier and dirtier, deeper and deeper in the hole they dug until no bar of soap will ever wash them clean.
This is stupid. The more desperate they become the dumber they become. These are smart people who are disenfranchising themselves. Patterson may be legally blind but he has great insight while Hillary and Ferraro have blinded souls. Nobody can help them out there. They need to head to a mountain top and meditate for a few years. Maybe they can join a Tibetan nunnery, if they’ll have them.
Yes, Hillary, there is such a thing as too late.
Hell, if she keeps this up, McCain should give her a cabinet seat (like Lieberman seems to be looking for)
Excellent. Most excellent.
She has said something simialr before (in 1988 re: Jesse Jackson) so i think that one might have to refer to her actions as a ‘pattern’
LOL Hal Holbrook in drag!
I think Obama has done just an awesome job of dealing with the Clinton/Penn slime machine with grace and humor. If he can get through that, he can get through the GOP slime machine.
They are doing him a favor by giving him the audition at the expense of their own campaign. So keep it up, slimebags. Obama just keeps looking better and better.
I used to think it was about even. But now I am firmly in Obama’s camp. Thank you Geraldine!
Does Ferraro need the Fox job more than the job she wants in the next Clintons administration. Now she gets to boost her ratings for Fox, serve on the Clintons finance committee and service what the Clintons’ think is their base. Never been much of fan of Pelosi but I stand in respect of her statement yesterday that no way do the Clintons get on the Obama ticket.
Clintons be gone, do not come back.
Hey, poo rhymes with true. You speak out! I want to hear from folks who have recently come to a an epiphany. It is a beautiful human experience, usually. Was your’s positive, even in poo-ness?
IndyStar:
link for Pelosi statement please?
Yeah. Hillary could be Secretary of Race Relations in a McCain Admin..
You totally rock.
I loved the whole thing but that part stood out for me as well. This is sooooo going to backfire.
On Rawstory,
Fox News and Rove must be coaching her now.
If there’s any positive for the DemocratIC Party out of the Clinton campaign limping along, it’s that finally more fellow Dems are seeing the light about the Clintons and the DLC.
Jeezus…finally! I’ve been saying this since about 1995 and have spent years getting ridiculed for it. Now hopefully they’re going down forever in a blaze negative glory.
I forget which comments section I saw this, but the commenter theorized that Hil’s playing a game of “if I don’t get the nomination, then I’ll throw the general to McCain” in an attempt to set it up for herself in 2012.
Truly Machiavellian shit.
The Clinton campaign is desperate. It is banking on the notion that no matter how nasty it gets with Obama voters will still refuse to vote for another Republican and so they will have to support Clinton because they have nowhere else to turn.
LOL. I know I just did.
Boyohboy. I was so wrong about Ferraro years ago. Even felt sorry for her back then.
Does she have delusions of meanqueendeity? or is she just plain nuts?
Was she always like this? or has a marble slipped somewhere twixt the ears & the slit tongue?
or is that silt?
Go to TPM. It was there yesterday. Pelosi said that because of the Clintons claims that Obama could not be Commander in Chief, there could be no joint ticket. I don’t have it exactly right. It was a pro Obama statement.
Thanks. Anybody got the email address for Keith Olbermann / “Countdown”?
Pelosi
I am reminded of all those Shakespeare tales in which power begins losing its power and is challenged. Oh, the tales the Barb could weave on this subject. It’s amazing what it brings out in human nature. Desperation begets desperation until there is no too low to go to hold on to it. My, my, the weds we weave to ensnare ourselves.
This is all good. They all self-reveal. Obama must have them furious that he won’t play the game. How can there be a game if you refuse to play the game!
My hubby agrees with you! :)
Revising and extending my [previous/yesterday? it seems like a lifetime ago] remarks:
I denounce and reject Hillary Clinton.
It is too convenient by half to lay this on Geraldine Ferraro…that ol’ Gingerbread Boy fable has it… she is what she is, and demonstrably was in the past.
This is on Hillary Clinton. This divisiveness was her choice of campaign tactic. Her minions should all be called to denounce and reject her and this tactic as well. I’m lookin’ at you, Bill Nelson, Ed Rendell, Gov.
SpitzerCorzine, et cetera, et cetera….Just heard a conversation on MPR reminding us that 40 years ago today, Gene McCarthy upset the “rules” in the New Hampshire primary. I worked for Gene McCarthy’s national field staff. On this date back then, the outlook was positive, uplifting even. Before the darkness and hate set in. Spawned by purveyors of division.
On this date today, there’s still time to stay together, to be positive, uplifting even. But the fork in the road is coming up awfully fast.
The pattern of racist tactics of the Clinton campaign is clear. Unconscionable. And no smarmy half-assed wink and a nod smirking “tug back the reins” response from Hillary Clinton will suffice.
She should do as another politician has done today. Resign. Her campaign is on the wrong side of history. And the wrong side of honor.
Machiavellian or, perhaps, Clintonian?
Actually, I was thinking of Ferraro, but now that you mention it…..
Wow. We now have IN and MN electing Muslims to Congress. It’s a whole new era boys and girls!
Pelosi couldn’t do it, but her pal George Miller could: get signatures of a majority of Super Delegates saying they will not vote for Hillary if she and her surrogates don’t stop attacks on Obama—and deliver the msg to Hillary.
p.s. What more would you expect from “foxy” Ferraro
The original wording of it all was so bizarre, and the blowout afterward has been weirder still.
It is a good indicator of how truly messed up all politicians are. What they will use to gain, who they will attempt to walk on and make sure they are down and out before they do as they leave the room on fire behind them.
Our representatives should be held to some standards. I forgot again, sorry. They create the standard to which they refuse to comply, and they do it by law.
does your state allow you to create laws by petition and public vote? we clearly can’t rely on those that represent us to do anything if they aren’t forced to, by law.
Purely positive-Obama’s campaign has handled the bullshit with grace and wit. Even the “monster” comment seems particularly apropo now.
Also note, that Mark Penn, Hillary’s Million Dollar campaign manager is a major corrupt K-street lobbyist. Penn also has John McCain as a client through BKSH. Mark Penn and Charlie Black worked together to spread false information about Iraq WMDs.
Mark Penn is a war criminal and Hillary is a war-monger, who will wage war for the Oil Companies.
“I think Obama has done just an awesome job of dealing with the Clinton/Penn slime machine with grace and humor. If he can get through that, he can get through the GOP slime machine.”
Indeed. It recently occurred to me if he gets mud on his suit, he loses.
He’s then contradicted the whole ‘no more politics as usual’ premise of his campaign.
gawd … what a drag … i don’t like seeing clinton do this stuff. so sure she’s the right one that anything along the way is justified… grrr …
The clinton2 campaign has been embroiled in one misstep after another, a further indication that her experience is not something we need.
Ferraro should know better. When her husband was caught with his fingers in the cookie jar there were cries of “profiling” because he is of Italian descent.
Heh, I stand corrected. *g*
who’s going to say/do that? Which one of our fearless Democratic leaders? (crickets chirping).
Thank you!
A big hearty Thank You to all those in history who helped get America to this point. Obama couldn’t be where he’s at today in the Prez Race without the blood, sweat, and tears of thousands before him that helped our society become what it is today. Obama himself has said this and kudos to him for understanding where we’re at in history, and that now was his time. He didn’t listen to those saying, “Wait yer turn!”
Now if we can just get the Constitution back!
If I could rephrase a little We now “…. elect despite the fact that they are Muslims……” good for the voters.
I understand this is all about Pennsylvania. But, realistically, if she wins PA bu 20 percent, she still can’t win by the numbers. Does she really think the supers are going to give it to her? Is she delusional?
Certainly not Nancy or Harry. They are too busy leading the Democrats back to the minority status they covet.
Can’t remember whether I saw that piece last night or today and don’t know time what time jayt had the interaction. *Him* I know and trust….. Carlo, not at all, unless you tell me Carlo has established cred with people like you at the Lake. *g*
He’s then contradicted the whole ‘no more politics as usual’ premise of his campaign.
I think if Obama would run a daily TV ad in Penn. pointing to the “Old Politics as Usual” tactics of Hillary, he might just take the state.
Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, and Lanny Davis are true geniuses at something.
I fully agree. I think it’s time for the superdelegates, who care about the party and country, to put an end to this crap. If the Democratic Party splits this year, with race as the issue, it will never come back and it will be to the detriment of the country. When I listened to Hillary Clinton during the debates, until the last couple, I felt reassured that she would pull the plug if it ever became apparent the campaign was putting the party at risk. Since her “McCain and I” statements, I have come to believe she will do whatever it takes to try to win.
agree.
everything they come at him with, he should ridicule and make into an ad. The add should contain bullet points of each and every kitchen sink component and should be updated as needed.
Precisely.
I just sent my first ever political contribution to Obama this morning.
You could try going through spotlight (link just above comments this page)
Um, may I speak up for Muslims? Not all Muslims are al-Qaeda. I just needed to say that.
My ancestors are Prussian and came to the country well before WWI and WWII. Not all Prussians were Nazis. Now, I know it would be kind of hard to run for President during those times, but they did a lot of patriotic work, like enlisting, and the women were top fundraisers. They were Americans first.
I just felt the need to point that out. Thanks.
“Now if we can just get the Constitution back!“
The fact that he taught constitutional law for years should help to insure at least he’ll have respect for the document.
I’ve heard tale that some POTUS called it “Just a god**mn piece of paper!”
I don’t think they’re going to get away with it.
I heard that PA voters are older. I think appealing to the Constitution and clean politics and honor would certainly be appealing. I think that is change that older voters could embrace.
Anyone see McGovern on Colbert? McGovern was the first presidential candidate I could vote for.
I actually caucused for McGovern- went with my spouse and baby- in California. (Yeah we had caucuses then.)
I had no clue what was supposed to happen in that caucus but I remember going door-to-door with the little one in the baby stroller. And I still have a McGovern bumber sticker.
Despite my involvement, I actually didn’t know or didn’t remember about all the shit that went on in the 1968 and ‘72 Democratic convention. I lived in Chicago so I remember the demonstrations and Abbie Hoffman and all that, but I didn’t remember how the candidate was selected. Did McGovern really win in the primaries in ‘68 and then the party somehow chose Humphrey? And in ‘72 did the Dems shoot themselves again with intra-party feuding and mechinations? Anyway, that bit of history is making me very nervous.
Bobby Kennedy would have won the primaries, but he was assassinated. I don’t remember if Humphrey was next in line or not.
thanks a lot Teddy for pointing out that the date of that article is TODAY.
If your aim is to point out that I’m an asshole, you’re doing quite well.
And fwiw, I believe that I mentioned above that it *was* being reported today, but had not been reported before.
Although CHS has dimissed the superdelegate issue as inconsequential in prior posts, I find it most distressing that 20% of the delegate vote at the DNC is unelected, in the form of supers and UADs. This is most undemocratic and note bene, the Repubs only have elected delegates. The Supers and UADs were a response by the likes of Mondale and Ferarro to the McGovern sweep in 72 where the hacks did not get seats on the Convention floor. Unelected delegates should apportioned based on the primary votes and caucauses. Ok, Obama loses Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, the loss of Kerry could be a blessing.
Hey guys. new thread upstairs. Careful, it’s the doughy pantload with newly flung poo.
P.S.
McGovern won the primaries, but his message was so socialist (I loved it!), Nixon destroyed him at the same time he, Nixon, was directing the Watergate break-in.
I think that the Clinton campaign is doing this on purpose, and that it’s about winning Pennsylvania.
James Carville famously said that Pennsylvania is two cities separated by Alabama. Much of the state consists of working-class whites, many of whom are no longer working, who’ve seen their income decline and resent everyone but the people actually to blame. They think affirmative action took their jobs away. They think that those latte-sipping liberal professionals don’t give a shit about them. And the Clinton campaign is hoping to win their votes, by any means. Even though this will leave them behind in pledged delegates, they hope that a big win here, as well as in a Florida revote, will persuade the superdelegates to award the top prize to Hillary and force Obama to accept the VP slot. After tearing the party apart, she’ll say that this is the only way to heal it.
Yes, this bothers me quite a bit and GF herself claims a big role making these rules way back when. sorry no link, but I heard it on the newshour two days ago.
Gene McCarthy was the candidate in 1968 who took on Lyndon Johnson. Once Johnson said “I will not run, I will not accept…” Bobby Kennedy stepped in.
George McGovern was the candidate in 1972. I don’t remember McGovern being part of the ‘68 campaign unless it was to run as a favorite son from South Dakota.
Concerning super delegates and Clinton’s hope that they favor her significantly more than Obama…
Let me point out that if party insiders go against the vote of the people, they will be turning off so many voters that the democrats may lose next election!
Clinton tries her scorched earth campaign because she is banking on the hope that people will vote for her over McCain. That is true. But there are other options out there, like not voting at all.
Sure, some will vote for Nader/Green. Some. A small percentage. But many more won’t be bothered to vote at all. The insiders will blame Nader/Green for spoiling, but in reality, it will be voter apathy and the non-vote that will make Clinton lose.
And concerning Ferraro’s comments…
Both of these campaigns have usually been pretty good at getting rid of aides and supporters, or silencing supporters, when they cross the line and attack the other candidate in a personal way.
Despite the (relative to past primaries) close count, they’ve been usually pretty good at dealing with the passions of their supporters.
Ferraro has said a few things which make Obama look like he got it all by chance or luck-of-skin. But voters, and supporters, and crowds gathered at speeches, are not produts of luck or chance. No one gets lucky every time they speak like that. No one gets that lucky with campaign contributions..
I think it’s important that Clinton says Ferraro is full of shit. Ferraro’s proximity to the campaign, and Clinton’s silence seems to indicate that Clinton is okay with Ferraro’s comments.
OK- so maybe I just misheard what the Colbert piece said.
But did McCarthy win the primaries and Humphrey became the nominee?
Who was the nominee in 1968 and how did that person get chosen?
Actually, after Bobby Kennedy was assasinated, it ended up being Humphrey versus McCarthy in 1968. Humphrey was nominated in the convention, which was conducted in the old way, prior to the McGovern reforms of 1972.
Yupper. It was wrong in 1988, and it’s wrong now.
Now MSNBC is playing apologist and spinning Ferraro….what she really meant by her comments was that Obama is lucky to get the press he’s getting…ummmm…because he’s a black man….ummm….and he shouldn’t be getting that kind of press….because he’s a black man…and that she’s congratulating him for getting the press coverage…ummm…even though he’s a black man or because he is or in spite of the fact that he is…and there’s nothing wrong with that….and Obama should kiss her white *ss.
And at some point during the convention, the nomination was offered, I think in the smoke-filled room, to Ted Kennedy who declined. I don’t recall if Humphrey was the leader in the primaries or if the smoke-filled roomers just selected him. I recall being turned-off and disappointed, but as the campaign went on, and Veep Humphrey disengaged himself from LBJ on Vietnam, I began to warm to him. If the campaign had gone on for one more week, I think Humphrey would have won. The vote was very close and Humphrey had the momentum.
The MO of the Clintons is to keep repeating their racist comments, if necessary, in the form of apologies or explanations. After the Clintons accused Obama of just being another Jesse Jackson in SC, Bill Clinton spent another week going on TV explaining and apologizing.
did you catch the name of the “reporters”?
LOL the repugs are defending her comments and stating that there is some truth to it because of the high percentage of blacks voting for him. Funny how that argumant never works in reverse and how they forget how Obama had to earn the black vote .
Does that mean that the whites that didn’t vote for him are racist? or the one who did are suffering from white guilt?
I love that some pndits believe that this won’t hurt Hillary in the long run. Bull…
It was between Contessa Brewer and an African-American reporter, but I didn’t catch his name.
Yup, they get their surrogates to throw shizzola against the wall over and over until it sticks, and then they deny it.
Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary’s “Archie Bunker” strategy for Pa.
Thank you for this post. I find her comments appalling. And much worse than what Samantha Powers said, in substance and in intention. At least Powers thought she was off-the-record. Oh yeah, and she apologized to Sen. Clinton. I’m beginning to agree with people who believe this is all part of that Clinton “fun”. Is this the fun part, Sen. Clinton?
Good one.
The good thing is that Obama has quite a bit of time to appear in PA….that is how he gets a lot of his voters…people are proving to be more open-minded these days.
Rachel Maddow is very shrill.
Oh, for Pete’s sake, Obama is also half white! And I’m all woman and I’m still voting for Obama. Unless you can say you don’t like every black man or woman you see just because s/he is black or you don’t feel compelled to vote for a woman just because she’s a woman, as are you, you have a bias problem.
You’re kidding, right? I mean, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I’m really hoping you’re kidding!
shock – check
denial – check
anger – check
bargaining – brief but check
depression – current
only two more steps to go re:clinton campaign tactics
And definitely not serious.
Why on Earth did you ever feel you had to defend her anyway? Isn’t it up to candidates to make their case and respond to challenging questions?
She isn’t entirely evil, but politically she does have problems. Same with Obama except he isn’t as well known and his supporters don’t seem to want to look at him with a critical eye.
Obama is doing well in this campaign and is in this position because people, that is, the electorate, recognize the fact that he is a very talented politician. IMHO, he is as talented as Bill Clinton, or maybe more so. Therefore, Hillary is in a competition with her husband’s counterpart. It’s no small wonder that she is second to both of them; they are full of an extra measure of talent. Good for them; unfortunate for her.
OTOH, since she insisted that Obama must renounce and reject Louis Farrakhan’s endorsement, I feel it’s only fair for her to be held to the same standard where it comes to Geraldine Ferraro’s blatantly ignorant, racist remarks.
A lot of people are reading it (or presenting it) that way.
I just see it as a plea to people to ignore the race & gender and look at the candidates for their voting records, character and policy positions. After all, if we’re really blind to gender and race these days, what matters is how they would govern.
If we’re only a party of identity politics then how can we make fun of the Christian Right who will only vote for a candidate who professes to believe just as they do?
I recall the 70’s and I recall most of all that: 1) we needed to bring about fundamental change in the system itself which was corrupt; 2) that we all had to work together; and 3) that we were desperately tired of the arrogant and materialistic, class-based mentality that dominated Washington.
Everybody I knew believed that. We all worked for it. Now we have a black Harvard-educated man, a Yuppie, who has incorporated the linguistic candances of King and occasionally Kennedy, and is repeating these things as if they were new ideas. And it’s like he is a saint or a visionary.
The given is that he is black so he must have suffered and speaks with great generosity of spirit, like King. But he is not King. He is a Harvard man. He father was a government official, and Obama himself knows little of the suffering and discrimination black men and women in this country have experienced.
If a white man said these things, people would go to sleep.They are cliches, after all. If a woman said them, people would singger. In Obama’s case, people assume he knows of racism from personal experience and assume he thought these ideas up and not that they are in fact the 70’s repeated as if new.
Why is it racist to say that? When did it become racist to tell the truth?
You obviously haven’t looked into the heart of darkness that is the playbook they go by.
For example, will all of Obama’s Republican support evaporate for the general election? Do ya think Karl Rove has that planned?
If you’re going to fight evil you have to open your mind to some truly nasty ideas they *might* consider.
You state that as fact. She didn’t say that at all.
She said that as a candidate he was noting unusual, not distinctly different. And, as a result, if he were White he wouldn’t be noticed at all.
It just shows how little people attention people are paying to the candidate’s policies and other credentials.
Just so ya know, I don’t think Hillary is a lot more qualified on paper, but she has been in the game a lot longer via Bill. I still don’t support her Goldwater Girl politics. I favor Edwards as the only progressive among the ‘top 3′.
LBJ said he wouldn’t accept the nomination.
RFK was killed.
HH was Veep, so yeah, he was kinda next in line.
Not that our party actually picks it’s nominee by telling the voters who’s next in line. Heh.
Come On Hillary and you bitter Clintonettes -it’s Midnight -no more smoke screens.
Here’s a more relevant topic so we can move on.
It’s an idea from KO’s that everyone is coming around to agreeing with:
1. Strip half of the Florida and Michigan delegates as the Republicans did -for violating the rules.Surely, above everything else these two attorney/candidates of all people would agree that the Rule of Law should prevail above all else??
2. Ko’s then suggests just splitting the delegates 50/50.
3. But I offer a third alternative to 2. In Ferraro’s honor. I think that Obama, as the front runner, can and should be more magnanimous -since it’s just his Blackness swaying the voters to him and to insure no doubts about the selection outcome. Here’s my suggestion: Obama can and should make the offer to give Hillary a head start! He can afford to go a little farther to more represent the actual likely results of a redo:
a. Let’s stipulate that Florida will end up with Clinton winning 55% of the vote -give her 55% of the Delegates and Obama 45%. b. Let’s stipulate that Michigan will end up with Obama winning 55% of the vote – give him 55% of the Delegates and Clinton 45%.
No one can argue that this is unfair. We can’t use the popular vote numbers without a re do so they are out- it’s the delegates anyway that count. So now that Clinton has a few more crowns to put on her mantle, maybe she can look for other pastures -like Governor?????
But more importantly we’ve accomplished something the Supreme Court failed to do: we imposed a just penalty for violating the law, but sought a fair remedy for the good of society and for the benefit of all.
So, which is filled with Democrats, the two cities or the ‘Alabama in between’?
Which will Hillary likely take and which will Obama likely get more support from? That oughta give us an indication which candidate should possibly be the nominee.
First, you obviously know nothing at all about Obama’s background. His father abandoned him and his mother at a very, very young age (I believe it was at age 2 or so) and had no contact with him. She was a single mother with a low enough income that she couldn’t afford to keep him with her and he lived for several years with his grandparents in Kansas while his mom made a living. He got into Harvard despite his background, not because he grew up in a privileged home. It was his achievement, not one based on some sort of ties to the privileged classes, that got him where he ended up.
Hillary Clinton is the one from a privileged and wealthy background. And who, obviously, wouldn’t be running for president if she hadn’t been married to Bill Clinton. THAT is demonstrably true. Unlike your characterization of Obama.
Not to offend anyone, but I believe Ferraro’s remarks are being blown way way out of proportion.
First of all, let me say that racism and sexism are both issues of concern to anyone who claims to be “progressive,” but they are each different phenomena, and arguments (like Ferraro’s, and like Steinem’s op-ed a few weeks ago)that attempt to compare the apples and the oranges are, well, pretty useless for understanding either.
Moreover, as someone who has been a feminist for most of my adult life, I find it embarassing and disheartening whenever a class-advantaged white woman (e.g. Ferraro, Steinem, et al.) argues that they are somehow more “victimized” than black men, black women or whomever they want to measure against. It’s a stupid argument, a silly argument, but I don’t think it’s fair to construe it as a racist argument.
Ferraro is not a spokesperson for the Clinton campaign, she’s a fundraiser. She speaks for herself, not the candidate, in this instance, in an interview with a small-town newspaper.
All this angst is making a mountain out of a molehill. Why isn’t anyone talking about that op-ed in the NYT by Prof. Patterson? Certainly much more “race-baiting” than anything GF had to say.
So, but, it’s interesting to watch how the slightest bit sets off a media witch hunt (or is it bitch hunt). And the bloggers (some, anyway) just eat it up.
I’m a 65 year old white guy. It sounds like you’ve been listening to someone else besides Obama. Both he and HRC are very smart. They are rational and pragmatic, rather than ideologues, so I believe both will explore issues, anwers, and repercussions before making decisions. This would be a vast improvement. However, I do believe that Obama is capable of expanding the Democratic party and achieving a new coalition that could last for a couple of decades. That may not occur, but there is a possiblity.
no more parsing. hillary clinton and her vile racist minons (bill included) have crossed the line repeatedly in her take-no-prisoners-i-am-the-entitled-queen despicable campaign tirades.
enough is enough. the department of justice should immediately begin looking into wire transfers from the clinton campaign to off-shore accounts controlled by karl “kkk” rove.
i would not vote for the vicious harridan under any circumstances after this dsplay of the most repugnant rnc playbook lies. STFU hillary. go home. we hate you and your disgusting divisive racist politics.
Ferraro so full of herself that she can’t see how ignorant she’s being.
I meant “next in line” with number of votes earned in the primaries. H Humphrey was a candidate, but he didn’t do as well as Eugene McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy. I just don’t remember how well. As Veep, Humphrey was stuck with LBJ’s policies in Iraq. He finally demonstrated some degree of independence and began to pick up steam in the waning days of the campaign. Out of money, he drove himself through the South in an old wreck of a car and preached peace and civil rights.
Oh Hillary…to win Pennsylvania…you lose Puerto Rico.
Such is the choice you made!
Ferraro made an inartful comment. What she said has a ring of truth to it though. Many Obama supporters I know (upper-income liberals)at least partially like him because of his racial makeup. They view a vote for him as a way to make the stain of racism in this country go away. Some Clinton supporters I know prefer her partially because of the chance to poke a stick in the eye of sexism. Would Obama be where he is in the race today if he were not of mixed race? Who knows? I am guessing that he may not have gotten all the Obama supporters I know if he was in fact white.
LOL! Thanks for saying that.
It is also so annoying that she doesn’t know to say “if he were white”; small point, but she should know.
Ferraro made some factually true but politically stupid statements. Ironically as this story was breaking the other big story was the Mississippi
primary where the pundits crowed about Obama getting 90% of the Black vote. There is no way this would happen if he were white. Politics is part demographics and demographics are “separating” the population into racial and other groups so the “race card” is always in play. The Black vote was a lock for Hillary and the only thing that would change that was a strong African-American candidate. The statements made by Ferraro are in no way racist they are more along the line of “sour grapes”.
Geraldine Ferraro had a chance to retract that “inartful” statement and apologize for it. She essentially repeated it. And it wasn’t the first time she has made such “inartful comments” about black candidates at a time when a “Willy Horton” link had to be produced.
But it’s a vastly different thing to say that Obama is where he is today BECAUSE he is “black” and has OVERCOME the discrimination and bigotry that labels such men, than it is to say that he is “lucky” because he “is” a black male. Black males, in fact, have a 50% chance of being in prison in their lifetime, are hammered with stereotypes about intellect, athletic superiority, criminal tendencies, radicalism, laziness, sexual virility, and a whole host of other prejudices.
Obama certainly is Obama because of his mixed race and life experiences informing him about issues of race and culture. Given the last eight years of the Presidency such a perspective would be refreshing. But remember that Bill Richardson is of mixed race as well. But Bill, to be quite honest, although he is probably more EXPERIENCED than any other candidate running (yes, Executive, Legislative, Diplomatic and Cabinet level experience) simply lacks the oratory fire and organizational skills that Obama does. Hillary doesn’t have near that experience of mixed-race Richardson. She’s not Hispanic, but she attracted more Hispanics than Richardson because of the “Clinton mystique”.
The “Clinton mystique” is WHY Hillary is where she is today. It’s not any real-time experience in foreign policy, or success in domestic policy. In both most important cases she actually failed to accomplish what was needed. Where she had a chance to lead and demonstrate some capability in Foreign Policy she didn’t (Iraq). And when she attempted to develop a comprehensive Health Care plan she failed there as well. Maybe her heart was in the right place in both…but it seems odd that she trusted people who are so willing to lead the country in the wrong direction.
So if we are going to go down the path of muting Ferraro’s comments and say that there is some “truth” to it because she was “really” referring to his experiential background and its appeal then the same must be true of Hillary. And then we have to balance whether Obama attained his position despite the odds against young males that are identified by others as “Black”, vis-a-vis a smart woman that opted to serve as handmaiden to an ambitious young man, and is now trying to assert credit for experience on those grounds. I think we have to admit that Hillary leapfrogged the normal electoral struggles that other women that run for Senate have to go through. She never had to hold city, county of Statewide office, had massive amounts of money generated by her name (not her accomplishments), and was welcomed as a New York resident mainly because of her affiliation with the former President. Any other woman would have never been received with such adulation.
But is Ferarro complaining about her candidates great advantages by her “luck” of meeting up with Bill Clinton? The “luck” of being First Lady? The “luck” of being proclaimed the “Presidential favorite” over seven far more experience Senators, and a couple of Governors…the “luck” of having a highly developed fundraising and campaign system virtually set up for her? The “luck” of being a Senator from one of the wealthiest States in the country with huge financial headquarters and donors? Of being surrounded by Blue States that were almost locks to win the primaries in, and lucky to be so well-known that one hardly needed to campaign. Where the worst problem was not because you were unknown, but because you were too well-known?
I said she made the comment in an unartful way. I am sorry, but there is no denying that some of the support he has gathered is due to the fact that he is of mixed race. Some of the support Clinton is getting is because she is a woman.
If I have several friends telling me that part of the reason that they are voting for Obama is because it would send a great statement about trying to overcome the stigma of race in this country, to move past our dark history in that regard, I believe them. It would send a great message. It has nothing to do with “experiential background”.
Joe- Are you saying that if an white individual won Mississippi by gaining 90% of the black vote there wouldn’t be something said? I think it was, when Jimmy Carter won that vote in 1976. But even then the numbers of black voters were not some incredible.
You seem to lack any historical reference about what happened in Mississippi in the early ’60’s. Blacks were essentially forbidden to vote through a whole host of literacy laws, poll taxes, absence of convenient polling sites, bureaucratic malfeasance and outright violent intimidation.
At the beginning of yesterdays vote the estimates by the media and the Missssippi Sect’y of State were that about 125,000 Democratic voters would come out. It was thought that Obama mighgt get maybe as high as 55%. But because of the SIZE of the African-American vote the numbers were over 400,000 voters.
Now are you saying that if a white candidate drew 75% of the White vote someone should suggest the vote was racist? That’s what you seem to be suggesting regarding Obama. Guess who won over 75% of the white vote (including 75% of the Republican white cross-over voters?).
I have sadly learned that there are elements in the Democratic Party that are neither Progressive or Liberal. Until we clean our own house of the win at all costs,triangulating,self serving,old-ass bigots…we can’t claim that the sick republicans are the sole party destroying this country. Say what you want about young people, they are sick to death of our old asses polluting this country with our greenhouse gases and our closeted bigotry. I for one am glad that the windbag blew the lid off of the Wolfson-Rove-Clinton strategy. I am just sad that it took me so long to learn who the Clintons really are. I won’t be fooled again!
If only we had equal standards in all this. Obama should condemn Axelrod for spreading the smear that Clinton refused to answer the question of Obama’s religion by Kroft on 60 Minutes. Her immediate response to whether Obama was a Muslim: “No, of course, not.” She went on to talk about how she sympathizes with those who have been smeared and after repeated badgering said he wasn’t Muslim “not that I know of.” That’s is the quote that has been ridiculously taken out of context. Mind you, it’s impossible for her to “prove” Obama is of any religion (as it’s been impossible for Obama to do).
Jesse Jackson, Jr. was never fired. No one was fired over D-Punjab. Obama never renounced the UNITE-HERE ad nor did he distance himself from the highly inflammatory remarks of supporters Michael Eric Dyson after NH (accusing Clinton voters of likely being racists and stating every criticism of Obama is “racial in subtext”) or Dick Harpootlian in SC (comparing Bill to Lee Atwater).
Also: can someone from the Democratic party put a stop to the presumption that being Muslim is a smear? Please. Enough. There’s no other way to counter it without attacking the bigotry at its root.
Lastly, people here need to ask themselves, “Why would Clinton do something that repeatedly results in her being bashed for it?” She wouldn’t. She’s not suicidal. And I say this as a man of color, for crying out loud. None of you whites understand what your confirmation bias (She’s bad, therefore, she must be guilty) does with this issue: it’s making an absolute mockery of racial justice.
@1divasinger: “I won’t be fooled again!”
Too late. You already bought this nonsense hook, line, and sinker.
But you haven’t been bought, right? My reasoning is clear and sound. I worked for every Clinton campaign since 1992. Hard. Phone banked, put out fliers, yard signs, and got people to the polls. I was with her until I paid attention, read, researched and woke up. What I have bought is truth. Not spin. Not “vaginal” solidarity or entitlement. Now, what you call nonsense is on the public record too. You want to debate facts, cool. No problem. But I am sick and tired of the obvious being turned into some sort of triangulating spin! I watched 60 Minutes. I was stunned by her performance. I watched it again and again. Too cute by half is not even close to what I would describe her being! Save it for someone who was not there for her and her husband, defending them for 16 years. Some of us have actually gone back and looked at the lies, the spin, the reality. You might think this has been easy for me. You would be wrong! I suggest that you evaluate your own reasoning and not question mine. Perhaps you will come to a different conclusion. Perhaps not. I repeat…”I won’t be fooled again!” That’s not “too late” baby. That’s right on time!
1968 was the first election in which I voted. I was SO pissed @ Humphrey & the Democrats over Vietnam that I did what some are threatening to do now: I voted for a third [the “Peace & Freedom”] party. That got us Nixon. Needless to say, I look upon those voicing such threats now with concern.
1968 was a heart-breaking time: Martin Luther King’s death in April, Bobby Kennedy’s death in June, violence @ the Democratic Convention in Chicago, and the draft & Vietnam hanging over us all.
Thus I worry about our scene now.
I was really afraid tonight about how bad Olbermann was going to slam Clinton. I feel reassured that he slammed Ferraro (who deserves it) and appealed to Clinton’s better nature. I almost put those last two words in quotes, but I do want to believe that she has one.
The only one post on this whole list that got it right?
i’m scooting back down the rabbit hole
Please, someone tell me what is so wrong or “racist” for stating the obvious ( which probably does not need to be stated) that the Black RACE is voting for Obama in record numbers, most solely because he is black. Is putting the word black into this mix of words which make it so wrong and racist. I just don’t see it and I don’t agree that it is offensive. It would be like me saying I voted for JFK because he was Catholic. May not be the best political reason, but admire me because it is the truth.
I agree with you completely and wonder how different it might be if Obama was an full blooded American Indian, how many ”real” cowboys would say they always liked them indians,no kidding…….
You obviously no nothing of Hillary’s background. She did not grow up of wealthy or privaleged parents — She was middle class in regular neighborhoods, public schools, regular people all the way. So watch what you say and make it the truth.