Comments on: Greenwashing Reckless Legislation http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:11:37 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: edison http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331590 edison Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:51:04 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331590 <p>Adam: Great post! What aggravates me the most is the condescending attitude of (a lot ) our elected officials. Sheesh! I say ditch it. We can and must do better.</p> Adam: Great post! What aggravates me the most is the condescending attitude of (a lot ) our elected officials. Sheesh! I say ditch it. We can and must do better.

]]> By: SWEG http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331213 SWEG Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:48:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331213 <p>Oh I believe so. I definitely think it is the right thing to do. But that is the reality. It requires an upfront cost. But you save all of these almost incalculable costs.</p> Oh I believe so. I definitely think it is the right thing to do. But that is the reality. It requires an upfront cost. But you save all of these almost incalculable costs.

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331207 A Siegel Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:46:36 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331207 <p>SWEG — we might pay more, directly, for electricity. But, might we pay less for health care impacts? Would not this lower our global warming costs? E.g., in a system cost, going toward a clean energy solution will be lower cost, as long as one understands cost holistically.</p> SWEG — we might pay more, directly, for electricity. But, might we pay less for health care impacts? Would not this lower our global warming costs? E.g., in a system cost, going toward a clean energy solution will be lower cost, as long as one understands cost holistically.

]]> By: SWEG http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331197 SWEG Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:44:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331197 <p>Regarding ‘clean coal’. If you are concerned about climate change, the issue is CO2. CO2 is generated when you burn (oxidize) carbon. Coal is essentially carbon with impurities. You can make it cleaner by taking out the impurities, but if you take out the carbon, it isn’t coal and it won’t burn. The only way you can burn coal and not spew CO2 into the atmosphere is to find a way to trap or “sequester” the CO2 from the smokestack. This usually involves pumping it underground, a very costly process that is not done on a commercial scale.</p> <p>The only truly “clean coal” is carbon sequestration. If we mandated carbon sequestration, coal plants would be non polluting and the increased cost of coal fired electricity would make other forms of electrical power generation cost competitive. Of course we’d all have to pay more for electricity. There is no free lunch.</p> Regarding ‘clean coal’. If you are concerned about climate change, the issue is CO2. CO2 is generated when you burn (oxidize) carbon. Coal is essentially carbon with impurities. You can make it cleaner by taking out the impurities, but if you take out the carbon, it isn’t coal and it won’t burn. The only way you can burn coal and not spew CO2 into the atmosphere is to find a way to trap or “sequester” the CO2 from the smokestack. This usually involves pumping it underground, a very costly process that is not done on a commercial scale.

The only truly “clean coal” is carbon sequestration. If we mandated carbon sequestration, coal plants would be non polluting and the increased cost of coal fired electricity would make other forms of electrical power generation cost competitive. Of course we’d all have to pay more for electricity. There is no free lunch.

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331111 A Siegel Thu, 13 Mar 2008 03:07:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331111 <p>Klynn … Thank you. There is an interesting real problem. It is becoming extremely difficult to keep up with the reading worth reading. Good problem….</p> Klynn … Thank you. There is an interesting real problem. It is becoming extremely difficult to keep up with the reading worth reading. Good problem….

]]> By: klynn http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331067 klynn Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:50:55 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1331067 <p>A Siegel</p> <p>I think the energy plan Portugal has established for the EU is the best model in the world and we should be looking at it seriously (or independent states in the US should look at their model…)</p> <p><a href="http://renewenergy.wordpress.com/transition/transition-europe/transition-countries/portugal/" rel="nofollow">http://renewenergy.wordpress.c...../portugal/</a></p> <p>And the best reads on the 20-20-20 EU/Portugal model can be found as downloads here:</p> <p><a href="http://www.portugal.gov.pt/portal/en/governos/governos_constitucionais/gc17/documentos/20071205_eng_mei_doc_visao_energia.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.portugal.gov.pt/por.....nergia.htm</a></p> <p>Both reports are “must reads” for anyone wanting to push a vision with their legislators…</p> <p>Portugal is going to be one wealthy country…</p> A Siegel

I think the energy plan Portugal has established for the EU is the best model in the world and we should be looking at it seriously (or independent states in the US should look at their model…)

http://renewenergy.wordpress.c…../portugal/

And the best reads on the 20-20-20 EU/Portugal model can be found as downloads here:

http://www.portugal.gov.pt/por…..nergia.htm

Both reports are “must reads” for anyone wanting to push a vision with their legislators…

Portugal is going to be one wealthy country…

]]> By: A Siegel http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330929 A Siegel Thu, 13 Mar 2008 01:38:43 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330929 <p>Now, the Oil Drum discussion was great re the Power Island. Months earlier I had written: <a href="http://energysmart.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/energy-cool-new-approaches-to-pumped-storage/" rel="nofollow">Energy COOL: New Approaches to Pumped Storage</a>. :-)</p> <p>Good three links / points … we need a holistic, rather than single point. solution set.</p> Now, the Oil Drum discussion was great re the Power Island. Months earlier I had written: Energy COOL: New Approaches to Pumped Storage. :-)

Good three links / points … we need a holistic, rather than single point. solution set.

]]> By: ACitizen http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330718 ACitizen Thu, 13 Mar 2008 00:07:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330718 <p>You’ve got it but…..</p> <p>There are some real technologies out there ready to go that could turn things around in a hurry such as:</p> <p><a href="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-solar-grand-plan" rel="nofollow">The Solar Grand Plan</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/tag/tidal_power" rel="nofollow">Power Islands</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/business/23wind.html?_r=1&oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">Wonderful Wind</a></p> <p>And yet we continue to get these stupid versions of ‘Let’s pay my pals in’Big Oil’ and ‘Big Power’ to continue down the dead end of fossil/nuclear technology as all the while they destroy the environment….Why? You ask…Because they are my pals a give me lots and lots of money! Yay!’ From the likes of The Boxer Short and her pals Crazy Joe & Co.</p> <p>Past time to wake up folks.</p> <p>Throw out 80 or 90% of the fools in Congress and elect some leaders with brains.</p> <p>Instead of the money grubbing morons we’ve got now.</p> You’ve got it but…..

There are some real technologies out there ready to go that could turn things around in a hurry such as:

The Solar Grand Plan

Power Islands

Wonderful Wind

And yet we continue to get these stupid versions of ‘Let’s pay my pals in’Big Oil’ and ‘Big Power’ to continue down the dead end of fossil/nuclear technology as all the while they destroy the environment….Why? You ask…Because they are my pals a give me lots and lots of money! Yay!’ From the likes of The Boxer Short and her pals Crazy Joe & Co.

Past time to wake up folks.

Throw out 80 or 90% of the fools in Congress and elect some leaders with brains.

Instead of the money grubbing morons we’ve got now.

]]> By: ACitizen http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330683 ACitizen Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:48:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330683 <p>I’m really tired of…..</p> <p><a href="http://drinkingliberally.org/blogs/oakland/archives/2006/07/arrogance_entitlem_1.html" rel="nofollow">The Boxer Short</a></p> <p>Pretending, like Obama, Schumer, Shuler, Emmanuel, Hoyer and Miss Nancy to be Democrats.</p> <p>There not and need to be primaried out of the party and out of Congress. Simple as that.</p> <p>Gonna take a while but let me ask you…..</p> <p>You have something better to do Jane?</p> <p>I don’t.</p> I’m really tired of…..

The Boxer Short

Pretending, like Obama, Schumer, Shuler, Emmanuel, Hoyer and Miss Nancy to be Democrats.

There not and need to be primaried out of the party and out of Congress. Simple as that.

Gonna take a while but let me ask you…..

You have something better to do Jane?

I don’t.

]]> By: kirk murphy http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330516 kirk murphy Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:26:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/greenwashing-reckless-legislation/#comment-1330516 <p>Thanks for that answer, Adam - sure puts things in perspective. Thanks also for joining us here today - I hope we see you often.</p> Thanks for that answer, Adam – sure puts things in perspective. Thanks also for joining us here today – I hope we see you often.

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