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	<title>Comments on: The Long Road Ahead For The Civil Liberties Fight And FISA</title>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325795</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:44:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325795</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I know I’m late for the party here, and deep into EPU-land, but I’m hoping some will find this link helpful:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;March 10th, 2008&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ratcliffe/?p=334&amp;tag=nl.e550&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Creeping totalitarianism: The NSA, personal data and you&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Posted by Mitch Ratcliffe @ 8:12 am&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I’m late for the party here, and deep into EPU-land, but I’m hoping some will find this link helpful:</p>
<blockquote><p>March 10th, 2008<br />
<strong><a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ratcliffe/?p=334&amp;tag=nl.e550" rel="nofollow">Creeping totalitarianism: The NSA, personal data and you</a></strong><br />
Posted by Mitch Ratcliffe @ 8:12 am</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: portorcliff</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325699</link>
		<dc:creator>portorcliff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325699</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I share your frustration on the limited tools avialable. Christy’s  admonition to keep bringing the light of day to this issue has me thinking that it may be time to point out where the physical taps are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From Wired’s 2006 article,&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0517-10.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt; we learned that there are multiple nodes where it is most likely the hoovers are in place. I say find the addresses and stand on a corner and ask the public question, “Who is violating our 4th Amendment rights?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Now the “low-hanging fruit”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Since the San Francisco “secret room” is numbered 3, the implication is that there are at least several more in other cities (Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego are some of the rumored locations), which likely are spread across the United States. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And this list is a linked PDF file. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another “Cut-In and Test Procedure” document dated January 24, 2003, provides diagrams of how AT&amp;T Core Network circuits were to be run through the “splitter” cabinet (PDF 7). One page lists the circuit IDs of key Peering Links which were “cut-in” in February 2003 (PDF 8), including ConXion, Verio, XO, Genuity, Qwest, PAIX, Allegiance, AboveNet, Global Crossing, C&amp;W, UUNET, Level 3, Sprint, Telia, PSINet and Mae West. By the way, Mae West is one of two key internet nodal points in the United States (the other, Mae East, is in Vienna, Virginia). It’s not just WorldNet customers who are being spied on — it’s the entire internet.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share your frustration on the limited tools avialable. Christy’s  admonition to keep bringing the light of day to this issue has me thinking that it may be time to point out where the physical taps are.</p>
<p>From Wired’s 2006 article,<a href="http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0517-10.htm" rel="nofollow"></a> we learned that there are multiple nodes where it is most likely the hoovers are in place. I say find the addresses and stand on a corner and ask the public question, “Who is violating our 4th Amendment rights?”</p>
<blockquote><p>Now the “low-hanging fruit”. </p>
<p>Since the San Francisco “secret room” is numbered 3, the implication is that there are at least several more in other cities (Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego are some of the rumored locations), which likely are spread across the United States. </p>
<p>And this list is a linked PDF file. </p>
<p>Another “Cut-In and Test Procedure” document dated January 24, 2003, provides diagrams of how AT&amp;T Core Network circuits were to be run through the “splitter” cabinet (PDF 7). One page lists the circuit IDs of key Peering Links which were “cut-in” in February 2003 (PDF 8), including ConXion, Verio, XO, Genuity, Qwest, PAIX, Allegiance, AboveNet, Global Crossing, C&amp;W, UUNET, Level 3, Sprint, Telia, PSINet and Mae West. By the way, Mae West is one of two key internet nodal points in the United States (the other, Mae East, is in Vienna, Virginia). It’s not just WorldNet customers who are being spied on — it’s the entire internet.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Praedor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325436</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325436</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No need for nervousness.  You will easily be one of the most competent and &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; people on the panel.  Zeus knows that not a single politician involved (including Conyers) will be genuine or competent at anything but shaking hands and lying to people’s face with absolute sincerity.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Simply accept and understand that you (ahem…) crap bigger than any of the political weasels involved and you will be fine.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need for nervousness.  You will easily be one of the most competent and <i>real</i> people on the panel.  Zeus knows that not a single politician involved (including Conyers) will be genuine or competent at anything but shaking hands and lying to people’s face with absolute sincerity.  </p>
<p>Simply accept and understand that you (ahem…) crap bigger than any of the political weasels involved and you will be fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Praedor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325420</link>
		<dc:creator>Praedor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325420</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe the “justification” they seek to use for mining through ALL the email traffic (at least) is that email is a unique thing.  You can log in to email at the yahoo mail interface from ANYWHERE and use the interface here in the US from a US server and send email to another person who could be ANYWHERE using their own Yahoo or Gmail or MSN mail web interface…  You can sign up for a free email with a name totally divorced from your real name.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I have about a half dozen emails setup.  Two of them are absolutely anonymous and cannot be traced to me in any way, shape, or form (eat that shitheads at NSA/FBI!), not even through the IP traffic logs at the providers.  Poor babies, must give them fits.  I especially like to encrypt nonsense messages and send them from one account to another just to produce untraceable, undecipherable noise to f*ck with the bastards…but I digress.  They are trying to argue that email (and to a certain extent, cell phones) are “different” and totally untied to location/nation/nationality and so the only way they can get any information out of it is to suck it ALL up and find the juicy stuff inside the mess.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This, of course, is rife for abuse and WILL be abused.  This sort of sniffing ALWAYS is abused by those at the controls.  They can’t help it and cannot prevent it.  Power seeks to increase power (and wealth) so they WILL and DO misuse the information to try to weaken political opponents (of their agency, the current partisan government, various other vested interests) so regardless of any original “good” intent, it cannot be good in practice because IT NEVER IS.  It NEVER stays within the original intent or within the original bounds.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The NSA is sucking up everything because they cannot understand or accept that liberty and freedom is &lt;i&gt;hard&lt;/i&gt; and has (totally acceptable) &lt;i&gt;costs&lt;/i&gt; associated with it.  They suck up everything because out of a bazillion benign spams for penis enlargement or colon cleansing or for refinancing your house, there is one message in the bazillions that hints at someone having an ill intent on freedom and liberty…so they need to destroy freedom and liberty in order to save freedom and liberty.  Understand?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the “justification” they seek to use for mining through ALL the email traffic (at least) is that email is a unique thing.  You can log in to email at the yahoo mail interface from ANYWHERE and use the interface here in the US from a US server and send email to another person who could be ANYWHERE using their own Yahoo or Gmail or MSN mail web interface…  You can sign up for a free email with a name totally divorced from your real name.</p>
<p>I have about a half dozen emails setup.  Two of them are absolutely anonymous and cannot be traced to me in any way, shape, or form (eat that shitheads at NSA/FBI!), not even through the IP traffic logs at the providers.  Poor babies, must give them fits.  I especially like to encrypt nonsense messages and send them from one account to another just to produce untraceable, undecipherable noise to f*ck with the bastards…but I digress.  They are trying to argue that email (and to a certain extent, cell phones) are “different” and totally untied to location/nation/nationality and so the only way they can get any information out of it is to suck it ALL up and find the juicy stuff inside the mess.</p>
<p>This, of course, is rife for abuse and WILL be abused.  This sort of sniffing ALWAYS is abused by those at the controls.  They can’t help it and cannot prevent it.  Power seeks to increase power (and wealth) so they WILL and DO misuse the information to try to weaken political opponents (of their agency, the current partisan government, various other vested interests) so regardless of any original “good” intent, it cannot be good in practice because IT NEVER IS.  It NEVER stays within the original intent or within the original bounds.</p>
<p>The NSA is sucking up everything because they cannot understand or accept that liberty and freedom is <i>hard</i> and has (totally acceptable) <i>costs</i> associated with it.  They suck up everything because out of a bazillion benign spams for penis enlargement or colon cleansing or for refinancing your house, there is one message in the bazillions that hints at someone having an ill intent on freedom and liberty…so they need to destroy freedom and liberty in order to save freedom and liberty.  Understand?</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325154</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325154</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The MSM’s self-serving meme is that isn’t really happening, and if it were, it would be uncomforting to publicize it, especially since half the “balanced” coverage would be GOP’ers denying it.  This conveniently lets the MSM off the hook for any participation in making all that happen, especially the failure of accountability part.  Makes those barbecues on the Vineyard so much more &lt;em&gt;gemuetlich, hein&lt;/em&gt;?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The MSM’s self-serving meme is that isn’t really happening, and if it were, it would be uncomforting to publicize it, especially since half the “balanced” coverage would be GOP’ers denying it.  This conveniently lets the MSM off the hook for any participation in making all that happen, especially the failure of accountability part.  Makes those barbecues on the Vineyard so much more <em>gemuetlich, hein</em>?</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325138</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325138</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Did you happen to notice his absence from the last primary discussions?  I missed him, as he was no where in sight.  I’m wondering if he’s seeking employment elsewhere at this point!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you happen to notice his absence from the last primary discussions?  I missed him, as he was no where in sight.  I’m wondering if he’s seeking employment elsewhere at this point!</p>
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		<title>By: STTPinOhio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325128</link>
		<dc:creator>STTPinOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325128</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They are giving the show to the wrong “David” at that channel.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Shuster did excellent work until his recent unfortunate comment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As most of us know who frequent this place, he was particularly good during the Libby trial.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are giving the show to the wrong “David” at that channel.</p>
<p>Shuster did excellent work until his recent unfortunate comment.</p>
<p>As most of us know who frequent this place, he was particularly good during the Libby trial.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325126</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325126</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh, I think an administration that feels free to convert the Department of Justice into the ethics-free prosecutorial arm of the Republican Party wouldn’t hesitate to resurrect the never really defunct TIA, lavish funds on it, copy data streams with it and use them for oppo research or to enrich corporate profits.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is Nixon’s Big Lie strategem written in letters a mile high.  The game seems to be to enlarge the wolf pack to the size of a herd of buffalo.  Then no number of Democratic “mounties” can catch them all, or the big ones.  Meanwhile, the mounties will have to put out fires all over camp, re-dig the wells and latrines, rebuild the cabins and wagons, and re-negotiate with all the locals whose friends and relatives the departing knaves have scalped for eight years.  No number of capable mounties could accomplish that in four or eight years.  Bush’s debt load alone will take more than a decade to repay.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Republican Party has converted Norquist’s magic formula for ascendancy from starve the &lt;em&gt;beast &lt;/em&gt;to starve &lt;em&gt;America&lt;/em&gt;, but be sure to make a profit from it.  Just for giggles, let’s watch what it costs in dollars and political capital to reverse a single stream of outsourced contracts.  Take your pick.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I think an administration that feels free to convert the Department of Justice into the ethics-free prosecutorial arm of the Republican Party wouldn’t hesitate to resurrect the never really defunct TIA, lavish funds on it, copy data streams with it and use them for oppo research or to enrich corporate profits.</p>
<p>This is Nixon’s Big Lie strategem written in letters a mile high.  The game seems to be to enlarge the wolf pack to the size of a herd of buffalo.  Then no number of Democratic “mounties” can catch them all, or the big ones.  Meanwhile, the mounties will have to put out fires all over camp, re-dig the wells and latrines, rebuild the cabins and wagons, and re-negotiate with all the locals whose friends and relatives the departing knaves have scalped for eight years.  No number of capable mounties could accomplish that in four or eight years.  Bush’s debt load alone will take more than a decade to repay.  </p>
<p>The Republican Party has converted Norquist’s magic formula for ascendancy from starve the <em>beast </em>to starve <em>America</em>, but be sure to make a profit from it.  Just for giggles, let’s watch what it costs in dollars and political capital to reverse a single stream of outsourced contracts.  Take your pick.</p>
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		<title>By: sporkovat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325116</link>
		<dc:creator>sporkovat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325116</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Call your Senators and Representative today — and tell them no telecom immunity and to stand up for the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment. Security and civil liberties protection are not mutually exclusive.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and don’t forget to ask for a polka-dotted pony while you are at it!!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;after all their capitulations since taking over Congress in 2006, they know this when the faxes and letters come in from Left Netrootsia: there will be no consequences of disregarding this plea like all the others, for the Axiom of Automatic Support for the Least Worst is as strong as ever, and there is no 3rd party threat to speak of.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;don’t the futility muscles get tired after so much exercise?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Call your Senators and Representative today — and tell them no telecom immunity and to stand up for the rule of law and the Fourth Amendment. Security and civil liberties protection are not mutually exclusive.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and don’t forget to ask for a polka-dotted pony while you are at it!!</p>
<p>after all their capitulations since taking over Congress in 2006, they know this when the faxes and letters come in from Left Netrootsia: there will be no consequences of disregarding this plea like all the others, for the Axiom of Automatic Support for the Least Worst is as strong as ever, and there is no 3rd party threat to speak of.</p>
<p>don’t the futility muscles get tired after so much exercise?</p>
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		<title>By: STTPinOhio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325115</link>
		<dc:creator>STTPinOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/the-long-road-ahead-for-the-civil-liberties-fight-and-fisa/#comment-1325115</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You are going to do fine. Every time I’ve seen you, you’ve been great.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are going to do fine. Every time I’ve seen you, you’ve been great.</p>
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