Comments on: A Campaign of Religious Bigotry http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:27:20 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: tw3k http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1326468 tw3k Tue, 11 Mar 2008 02:10:00 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1326468 <p>Thanks for the reply selise. I think it is truly dialectic.</p> Thanks for the reply selise. I think it is truly dialectic.

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1326257 MarkH Tue, 11 Mar 2008 01:15:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1326257 <p>I don’t care for the Religous Right pushing their views in the political sphere. But, is that really so different than the identity politics Hillary (the first female to be taken seriously for president) and Barack (the first black to be taken seriously for president) are using?</p> <p>Seriously, are we Democrats really going to accept identity politics on our side and berate Republicans for using it on their side?</p> <p>Identity can lead the voter down some stupid alleyways when they try to figure out candidates. For example, Bush and Obama are both men who have used cocaine, while Hillary is a woman who (presumably) hasn’t. Does that mean Bush and Obama are the same politically? Does it mean Obama is more like Bush than Hillary is like Bush? Silliness. Sheer silliness.</p> <p>To me the more worrisome thing is the similarity of Hillary and Barack to all the politicians who have used smears, innuendo, lies, and trickery to get elected and refused to talk about their own political background, policies and actual plans for if/when they do become president. I’ve heard it said recently that there’s hardly a difference between Hillary and Barack on policy. Is that true? From earlier in the primary I can hardly believe it. Wasn’t Hillary a “modern Progressive”? Wasn’t Obama praising Reagan? Do these candidates actually stand for anything specific?</p> <p>Sure, you can look at their voting records to discover their “true” identity. But, don’t forget politicians have been known to construct a resume — phony as the paper it’s not written on.</p> <p>So, if you want identity politics the first thing you truly need to do is suss out their true identity. Was Bush really a Christian? Was he really off the drugs and alcohol? Was he really a “compassionate conservative”? It doesn’t seem likely and yet they sold that image of him and people liked it. Are being sold anything less this time around?</p> I don’t care for the Religous Right pushing their views in the political sphere. But, is that really so different than the identity politics Hillary (the first female to be taken seriously for president) and Barack (the first black to be taken seriously for president) are using?

Seriously, are we Democrats really going to accept identity politics on our side and berate Republicans for using it on their side?

Identity can lead the voter down some stupid alleyways when they try to figure out candidates. For example, Bush and Obama are both men who have used cocaine, while Hillary is a woman who (presumably) hasn’t. Does that mean Bush and Obama are the same politically? Does it mean Obama is more like Bush than Hillary is like Bush? Silliness. Sheer silliness.

To me the more worrisome thing is the similarity of Hillary and Barack to all the politicians who have used smears, innuendo, lies, and trickery to get elected and refused to talk about their own political background, policies and actual plans for if/when they do become president. I’ve heard it said recently that there’s hardly a difference between Hillary and Barack on policy. Is that true? From earlier in the primary I can hardly believe it. Wasn’t Hillary a “modern Progressive”? Wasn’t Obama praising Reagan? Do these candidates actually stand for anything specific?

Sure, you can look at their voting records to discover their “true” identity. But, don’t forget politicians have been known to construct a resume — phony as the paper it’s not written on.

So, if you want identity politics the first thing you truly need to do is suss out their true identity. Was Bush really a Christian? Was he really off the drugs and alcohol? Was he really a “compassionate conservative”? It doesn’t seem likely and yet they sold that image of him and people liked it. Are being sold anything less this time around?

]]> By: Wordsmith http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1325160 Wordsmith Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:29:06 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1325160 <p>Scarecrow -</p> <p>I’m not a full-fledged theologian, but I DO have degrees in Religious Studies and Biology.</p> <p>This was a great post! </p> <p>Religion in and of itself is fascinating stuff, getting into the belief systems of others and their myths/stories.</p> Scarecrow -

I’m not a full-fledged theologian, but I DO have degrees in Religious Studies and Biology.

This was a great post!

Religion in and of itself is fascinating stuff, getting into the belief systems of others and their myths/stories.

]]> By: DeanOR http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324957 DeanOR Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:20:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324957 <p>It does get worse. The media take it a step further and try to goad candidates into a conflict with each other on religious grounds. Hillary Clinton in an interview was asked multiple times in a row about the Obama/Muslim thing, and after repeatedly answering that this attack on Obama was false and a slur, she finally added in frustration “as far as I know”. Bob Herbert, whose work I usually admire, then misrepresented her statement. See Media Matters’ take on this:<br /> <a href="http://mediamatters.org/items/200803090001" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/items/200803090001</a></p> It does get worse. The media take it a step further and try to goad candidates into a conflict with each other on religious grounds. Hillary Clinton in an interview was asked multiple times in a row about the Obama/Muslim thing, and after repeatedly answering that this attack on Obama was false and a slur, she finally added in frustration “as far as I know”. Bob Herbert, whose work I usually admire, then misrepresented her statement. See Media Matters’ take on this:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803090001

]]> By: santarita http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324950 santarita Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:19:00 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324950 <p>I so wanted Hillary Clinton to say something like the fictional senator on West Wing in response to Scott Pelley’s question. What a golden opportunity to elevate the level of political discourse. Likewise I wanted Barack Obama to talk about the importance of trying to understand and appreciate other cultures when Drudge circulated that photo of Obama in native dress.</p> I so wanted Hillary Clinton to say something like the fictional senator on West Wing in response to Scott Pelley’s question. What a golden opportunity to elevate the level of political discourse. Likewise I wanted Barack Obama to talk about the importance of trying to understand and appreciate other cultures when Drudge circulated that photo of Obama in native dress.

]]> By: dosido http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324941 dosido Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:14:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324941 <p>Thanks for this post, Scarecrow. This trend has been bothering me for some time now. Is the press complicit? Yes!</p> <p>The thought that “God is on <strong>my </strong>side” completely misses the point of what it’s all about, IMHO.</p> <p>We just recently had a community meeting with our homeless outreach program. One man wanted to help this one particular homeless person (whom every one knew) but he wanted to help her <strong>his </strong>way, although everyone else knew the woman had deep emotional issues that prevented her from accepting help in HIS way. He just wouldn’t let up, because he was right, you know.</p> <p>It’s not about forcing people to do things one way, FGS. Acceptance and tolerance, not control.</p> Thanks for this post, Scarecrow. This trend has been bothering me for some time now. Is the press complicit? Yes!

The thought that “God is on my side” completely misses the point of what it’s all about, IMHO.

We just recently had a community meeting with our homeless outreach program. One man wanted to help this one particular homeless person (whom every one knew) but he wanted to help her his way, although everyone else knew the woman had deep emotional issues that prevented her from accepting help in HIS way. He just wouldn’t let up, because he was right, you know.

It’s not about forcing people to do things one way, FGS. Acceptance and tolerance, not control.

]]> By: RickMassimo http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324920 RickMassimo Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:52:43 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324920 <p>An excellent post all around. I just wanted to add one prediction regarding the right-wing/mainstream media:</p> <p>In time for the 2012 elections, the generally accepted narrative will be that Romney went out to declare his religious views publicly because of terribly unfair howling and hounding from the atheistic libruls. Mark my words.</p> An excellent post all around. I just wanted to add one prediction regarding the right-wing/mainstream media:

In time for the 2012 elections, the generally accepted narrative will be that Romney went out to declare his religious views publicly because of terribly unfair howling and hounding from the atheistic libruls. Mark my words.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324908 selise Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:47:59 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324908 <p>later tw3k.</p> <p>passing shot - i just don’t see that science and spirituality have to be in conflict or compartmentalized… and this from someone who was trained in science (and still loves it) and has utterly rejected the religious “values” of her past.</p> later tw3k.

passing shot – i just don’t see that science and spirituality have to be in conflict or compartmentalized… and this from someone who was trained in science (and still loves it) and has utterly rejected the religious “values” of her past.

]]> By: secularhumanizinevoluter http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324889 secularhumanizinevoluter Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:34:50 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324889 <p>No, it is nor “crumbling, it is being torn apart by a bunch of criminals that the Dems don’t have the balls to take on. As for religious bigotry. I don’t care whether you’re a muslim, pagon, christian, mormon or hindu, if you base your world view on supernatural events influencing the reality based universe in the past OR the presant you are superstitius. Period. End of story. You have CHOSEN to make a carefully thought out break with reality. So to me religowackjobs fighting over who has the TRUE religion is kinda like watchin crabs in a barrel. Fun, but NOBODY in that THAR barrel is gonna come out on top and they’re ALL goin in da pot!</p> No, it is nor “crumbling, it is being torn apart by a bunch of criminals that the Dems don’t have the balls to take on. As for religious bigotry. I don’t care whether you’re a muslim, pagon, christian, mormon or hindu, if you base your world view on supernatural events influencing the reality based universe in the past OR the presant you are superstitius. Period. End of story. You have CHOSEN to make a carefully thought out break with reality. So to me religowackjobs fighting over who has the TRUE religion is kinda like watchin crabs in a barrel. Fun, but NOBODY in that THAR barrel is gonna come out on top and they’re ALL goin in da pot!

]]> By: klynn http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324860 klynn Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:15:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/10/a-campaign-of-religious-bigotry/#comment-1324860 <p>Second that!</p> <p>With my work in urban development, I worked with all walks of life. Those with a belief system and those without. Those not sure what to believe and those indifferent to faith systems. On all sides of humanity I have encountered bigotry against faith, against lack of faith, against no faith, against indifference. Not one view is centered on positive sum.</p> <p>It was the foundation of this country that each individual was able to pursue life, liberty and happiness in an environment of fair and due process.</p> <p>Free to be as long as your “to be” did not violate another citizen’s rights.</p> <p>We have free speech, which allows for all the views expressed in this thread.</p> <p>We have freedom of religion. Again, allowing for the views expressed in this thread.</p> <p>Yet, there remains a cultural divide… Which is reflected in this thread.</p> <p>We all have the freedom “to be” through the Constitution.</p> <p>A Constitution in the process of crumbling…</p> <p>Let’s focus, no matter where one falls on one’s spectrum of life, on the issues that will rebuild our nation so that we might still be able to speak freely and decide our position issues that will preserve ad restore foundation freedom.</p> <p>If the campaign continues down a path of cultural divide based on religious attack, we all lose…We as an electorate can make a difference on this concern.</p> <p>The one observation in my work…Everyone I worked with, faith systems or not, was looking or working for hope, dignity and security…common ground…the positive sum…</p> Second that!

With my work in urban development, I worked with all walks of life. Those with a belief system and those without. Those not sure what to believe and those indifferent to faith systems. On all sides of humanity I have encountered bigotry against faith, against lack of faith, against no faith, against indifference. Not one view is centered on positive sum.

It was the foundation of this country that each individual was able to pursue life, liberty and happiness in an environment of fair and due process.

Free to be as long as your “to be” did not violate another citizen’s rights.

We have free speech, which allows for all the views expressed in this thread.

We have freedom of religion. Again, allowing for the views expressed in this thread.

Yet, there remains a cultural divide… Which is reflected in this thread.

We all have the freedom “to be” through the Constitution.

A Constitution in the process of crumbling…

Let’s focus, no matter where one falls on one’s spectrum of life, on the issues that will rebuild our nation so that we might still be able to speak freely and decide our position issues that will preserve ad restore foundation freedom.

If the campaign continues down a path of cultural divide based on religious attack, we all lose…We as an electorate can make a difference on this concern.

The one observation in my work…Everyone I worked with, faith systems or not, was looking or working for hope, dignity and security…common ground…the positive sum…

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