Scott Horton catches a doozy of a political prosecution coordination scheme in Alabama. I am sitting here aghast this morning as I’m reading through the detail. See for yourself:
In “Vote Machine,” my feature in the current issue of Harper’s, I discuss the steps by which the Justice Department lost sight of its principal mission of law enforcement and was converted over a six year period into a gleaming machine for the purpose of manipulating elections. Some of this has been discussed previously—for instance, the decision to gut the Civil Rights Division so that an operation which once existed to protect minority voters was now actually turned against them, bolstering and helping to drive through redistricting plans that helped net a series of additional seats in the House of Representatives in the 2004 elections; actively suppressing minority voter turnout through an aggressively mounted, and ultimately fraudulent “voter fraud” scheme. To this is added the process of stuffing the ranks of the department with political hacks hired into career positions; a series of high-profile selective prosecutions of political opponents, and the careful suppression of criminal investigations which could be damaging to the G.O.P.
But the single most spectacular political perversion of the mechanics of the Department of Justice started in Alabama and is still running strong this very week. In the Heart of Dixie, one of the reddest of the Red states, the G.O.P. decided that the Justice Department furnished all the tools it needed to achieve its long-cherished plan of taking over the state legislature. The Alabama G.O.P.’s march for a political lock on Alabama politics began in the early nineties with a playbook authored by Karl Rove. As Joshua Green detailed in a masterful piece in The Atlantic, Rove saw a clear path for political victory in Alabama, and it ran straight through the chamber of commerce and judicial elections. The Clintons still held sway in Washington, but Rove was laying the groundwork for a permanent Republican majority in Alabama. The second stage involved taking the governorship, which was achieved in 2002 and repeated in 2006, on both occasions with vital support from Washington. At the core of this effort was the Justice Department’s highly dubious prosecution of Don E. Siegelman, pursued with the involvement of Karl Rove and aggressively championed by William Canary’s “girls,” namely, his wife Leura Canary, and client Alice Martin, the state’s two U.S. attorneys.
Now the third phase of this campaign is moving into high gear. The third phase is being pursued with the backing of the three essential pillars of the Alabama Republican establishment….
Scott has previously talked about Martin, including about a potential perjury inquiry, but this sort of political coordination is beyond anything that should ever be allowed in a USAtty’s office. Indeed, it goes to the very core of WHAT NOT TO DO as a USAtty, and in prior administrations would have gotten you sacked. I just…I don’t know what to say, other than this cannot be allowed to continue, and it needs an enormous amount of disinfecting public sunlight.
Since the DOJ is not functioning properly in providing that for the public, Congress had better step in…and fast. No one can possibly think this is limited to Alabama, can they?
Because this isn’t the first time such accusations have come up — not by a long shot, and not without substantial hints of WH involvement in the political string pulling — but this time it’s happening on Mukasey’s watch. Congress has let far too many things slide — the Abramoff/Reed/K Street payola bilking of tribal casoino interests springs to mind — and it’s well past time they hit the ground running on this.
Mukasey and Alice Martin and company need to answer for their seemingly politicized actions and decided lack of procedural respect and DOJ checks on bad behavior. Now. Before we head into the general elections in the fall…
Related posts:
- Does Obama Policy Allow Politicized Contact Between White House and Justice?
- All Together, Now: Politically-Motivated Terrorism Cannot Be “Politicized”
- AL Gov: Rep. Artur Davis Attacked for Health Care Vote by Primary Opponent
- Eric Holder’s Secrets
- DOJ to Beef Up Corporate Fraud Enforcement (As Soon as They Find a Super Star)






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Christy!
Morning all — sorry about the post mix-up earlier. I hit publish when I meant to hit save…it will be back after this one. Clearly, I need more coffee.
All told, it’s better then hitting delete.
The Constitution set up a government with checks and balances so that these kinds of abuses of power could be punished. But our leadership has decided to postpone any action in the hope of getting a Democrat into the White House.
I want Reid and Pelosi replaced today with people who will re-assert the oversight power of the Congress.
We had a big storm last night and it made my internet connection a bit funky — they’ve worked on something outside this morning, and I finally got everything up and running a bit ago. Yay! But that meant I was starting behind the curve this morning in terms of getting things written the way I wanted them done…
Morning Christy!
When we retake the White House and recover the Constitution, could you please consider taking a job as one of the US Attorneys to clean up this mess?
I just wonder how all this is going to unfold. We need prosecutions, badly.
Sorry to be OT here, but I have a question: why is it taking so long to get the results compiled from the Texas caucus? Did it end on Tuesday, or are the caucuses continuing indefinitely? They seemed to stop at 41% of the precincts reporting (CNN), and with 1/3 of the TX delegates (67) at stake, wouldn’t it be a good idea to get the results in? What’s going on here?
Our local USAttys office is actually pretty good — I know several of the AUSAs, and they take their jobs and their commitment to justice pretty seriously. It’s a good crew who have been working there together for quite a while — plus our local federal judges would not put up with that sort of crap behavior in a bazillion years (even though a number of them are GOP appointees from the Reagan and first Bush administration years, they are fair and tough, but not politicized in the way that so many newer apppointees have been alleged to be).
I saw somewhere that the reporting was voluntary. Apparently no real system was in place.
The TX rules didn’t require that the even turn in preliminary results until Friday of this past week…and I suspect that a lot of them took that long, and then took the weekend off. We’ll likely start seeing something more definite next week. Just a guess, but I suspect that’s a lot of the paperwork hold-up.
That is, reporting to the press was voluntary…
This case has been busted wide open. As such, it seems that many Alabama Republicans have little choice but to cooperate. Still, some may get caught up in it, unable to save their own careers. Others may attempt to cover it up, stonewall, and (like Bushco) otherwise hinder the wheels of justice. Is that correct?
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!
Thank you for this post, Christy.
It’s clear, we’re gonna need a bigger broom, and a shovel, a backhoe or 2, once we get the present administration tossed out on their collective ax*es.
The thing that galls me most is that, although Karl Rove is no longer in the WH, his project to jigger “The Math” is clearly alive and well. And the exposure and rooting out of it has gone off the radar for far too many media outlets who have moved wholesale into the Presidential horse race business.
Without a lot more exposure on this, the fall election cycle will be attempted to be gamed…with nary a whimper from the folks who ought to be raising hell. What a mess.
Plenty of material for the collective compost pile, that’s for sure!
Here is the link to the Official, unofficial, results.
Looks like a big mess to me
how is that for irony. They could sell a lot more popcorn by covering this aspect of the elections.
More hearings. I’ve listened to more House, Senate and Committee hearings than I can count. To ask a body that dismissed its oversight responsibilities as prescribed in the Constitution to hold hearings, is like taking the bridge from nowhere to nowhere. When have hearings had any follow-through after the moral outrage? This may be a rogue administration but they reflect the Congress.
If Congress agreed to omit oversight from its mission, what is the point of yet another costly hearing? It’s going nowhere. Maybe it is on record but only fragments are on record because the DOJ and Administration delete their records. It’s like reading a book on letters between two parties in which all the letter from one of the parties were destroyed and all you have are careful responses by the other party.
To whom do Mukasey and Martin answer? If congress dismissed its checks on bad behavior and reduced it to a gossip session, how can we expect the DOJ do likewise? It is one big nose thumbing at the Constitution with the permission of all parties.
I’d like to slap them all silly. OK. OK. That’s not very nice. I’m only expressing my feelings.
Part of the problem is that a lot of these caucuses used to get 5 or 6 people tops, and suddenly had hundreds of people turn out for a contested and exciting race. And the powers-that-be seem not to have really anticipated that (no idea why give the high turnout increases everywhere else this year, but there you go…). And so they are dealing with a lot more than usual in terms of reporting and information from each caucus.
Christy 15. That jogs my mind about something else I’ve been meaning to ask about.
KKKrl supposedly “left”, but I just don’t buy that for a minute. I have noticed absolutely no break in his stride afterwards. He’s still going full-speed at his dirty-tricks crusade. Isn’t he??? And it’s so public, so brazen, one couldn’t even call it “under the radar.”
Does this strike you the same way?
Because during those hearings, admissions are made and information is discovered that elads to more and more unravelling and public exposure of the messes. The DOJ is not going to prosecute their own — not the way things stand now — and the only way to educate the public and expose wrongdoing in through these hearings.
Think about how much more we know now for certain than we knew just two years ago when the GOP-led Congress was doing no oversight and allowing this all to fester unchecked. It slows them down, it makes them question if they will get caught and some of the USAttys asked to do bad things and scheme politically will say no…more if the risk of exposure heightens.
There is great value in public exposure above and beyond that in terms of pushing the public to pay attention to what is done as a means of making electoral choices. And that has value as well. And that’s just off the top of my head on a single cup of coffee this morning… (need more coffee…)
Yes, this is very true. We knew that Rove was not going away. He is still deeply involved in calling the plays – large and small – right down to the wearing of the blue neckties.
pacifist but definitely not passive? Works for me. You go grrrl!
There were reports this week that Rove and others (like KKenny Boy Mehlman) have been consulting with Charlie Black and Rick Davis on the McCain campaign, which is not exactly a shocker considering they are all fairly tight in the smarm merchant business in the beltway anyway.
Alabama and Mississippi have been, at least since the Civil War, politically corrupt. So damn corrupt, it simply hasn’t been about money and power, but about something more important – the dignity of the human spirit.
Over the past few decades these malignant political cultures have been margially improved. An important agent in this marginal improvement has been the DOJ. That is one reason why the role now being played in Alabama by the US Attorney’s Office is so maddening and heartbreaking.
I find it amazing that all of the lies, cheating and deceptions perpetrated by Rove hasn’t come back to bite him in the ass yet.
I mean think of it. The Plame case, the e-mails, the DOJ firings, phone jamming-gate, Gov. Siegelman, Ohio’s dubious results in 2004, etc. The list goes on and on, and not a hair on his rapidly balding head out of place.
Very frustrating, to say the least.
Keep shining that bright light into the corners, Christy. We love you for it. We’ll help any way we can.
I’m in favor of more hearings, but I want Reid and Pelosi replaced. They have failed in their responsibilities.
The Congress is moving so slowly that nothing will happen until after the November election. At which point the press (and I fear the Democratic Party) will hit us with a barrage of “national unity” nonsense in an effort to “put this all behind us”.
Henry Waxman has seemed the most diligent member of congress with regard to trying to exercise oversight. However, he somehow sees fit to request a DOJ investigation of Roger Clemen’s testimony and hasn’t initiated hearings into Alice Martin’s conduct of U.S. Attorney Office. Arthur Davis questioned along the line of Alabama DOJ corruption and the Siegleman issue during some of the U.S. Attorney firings hearings, but it seems to have warranted no further inquiry, once Gonzales resigned and Mukasey stepped in. It’s really discouraging.
Mehlman, Rove et al
politico
This is very true, Christy. Thanks for being the voice of reason. I am so frustrated with the spinelessness of Congress. Yes, the hearings are informative. At the moment I have so much information on unfinished hearings and no solutions other than to bring on the next dog and pony show.
At Mukasey’s appointment hearings, this guy was like trying to catch a slimy eel. The Senate approved him with full understanding of the role he would play – coverup and no accountability. That is like sending your daughter on a date with the likes of Ted Bundy, knowingly. Can you expect anything but a tragic outcome? I think not.
Neither of them are going to be replaced before the next election cycle. It just isn’t going to happen because there isn’t a clear successor for either of them as a consensus candidate. I know folks who have explored the possibility, and I can tell you in all honesty it isn’t going anywhere until the next election cycle. But having more and better Democrats in place to help with that voting would make accountability and issue requirements a damn sight easier to push…
It just HAS to happen eventually. Patience growing very very thin here. Disgust over MSM & repugnant party complicity too much to bear.
We need to keep pressure on any way we can.
*puff puff, N.O.T. too old for this! NEVER!*
Excellent link, thanks Steve! I credited you on my blog for it.
Is what I heard about the people responsible for counting the caucus votes were only required to snail mail their results in by this weekend true?
OT..McCain does it again:
link
Alice Fisher is the DOJ person you are talking about, I think — Alice Martin is the USAtty in Alabama. Confusing with two Alices, which isn’t exactly a common name these days — but Alice Fisher is doing the public corruption oversight at DOJ and is a different person from the one Scott is talking about above…
If it weren’t so awful,it would be funny. The Department of Justice is actually functioning worse – way fucking worse – than the CIA or the FBI. That really is an astonishing Bushco accomplishment, although it also says a lot about the gutless careerism of lawyers generally and of plenty of current DOJ lawyers. Way to sell out the people, motherfuckers.
Now there’s a man that should be in jail! Wonder what the chances are on that!
Don’t know on that one — I had heard about results not having to be fully tabulated and turned in on paper until Friday. But no idea if they had to be snail mailed or not. Maybe a TX reader who participated can answer that one?
“At which point the press (and I fear the Democratic Party) will hit us with a barrage of “national unity” nonsense in an effort to “put this all behind us”.
Totally agree. At which point I’ll be glad to put my metaphorical foot up their behinds as well.
We need real accountability for the crimes I suspect have been committed by this administration. Nothing less. Because if they get away with this it will set an extremely bad precedent for future office holders on either side of the aisle.
No, I actually meant into the whole use of the DOJ to further partisan objectives in Alabama. I know Arthur Davis is not a favorite of FDL, but he did inquire along matters Scott Horton enough to outrage my delicate sensibilities, even before I knew of Horton’s articles. I wondered why Waxman hadn’t picked up on the matter and pursued hearings, holding Mukasey’s feet to the fire.
1,781 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
I agree with you that this complete corruption of the Dept. of Justice and the packin’ of the career civil service with political moles is terribly dangerous and I believe it requires immediate Congressional heat and specific enabling legislation to create a special prosecutor completely independent of the DOJ under Congressional authority through funding and re authorization. But this is jest the last stage of a lethal process that began over 27 years ago with the determined and well organized and executed plan to pack the federal judiciary from the District level through to the Supreme Court and was added and abetted by established powers in the Democratic Party who are pullin the strings from the DNC and Mrs. Clinton’s campaign.
I have said this before and you’ve hit me pretty hard over it but our entire system of justice is corrupted and has not had anythin ta do with “justice” for a very long time. The entire structure of law in our country has been deformed for over 100 years because of the anthropromorphizing of the corporation, granting infinite life to corporate charters and extending human rights to money by granting holding companies the protection of the Bill of Rights. Until this fundamental structural flaw has been eliminated, we will never put history back in order and rekindle the progressive struggle for the extension of the rule of law and equal protection to all.
I think that the depth of the corruption in our politics and system of justice can be seen in the struggle goin’ on now for control of the Democratic Party, between the conflicting visions of the old, corporatist cronies and the new 50-state grassroots insurgents. Anyone who thinks that there isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between Obama and Mrs. Clinton on policies or positions should ask themselves the question: how would the application of law and justice differ between an Obama administration and a Clinton-McCain administration?
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T QUIT NOW!!
Christy at 33.
Speaking of more and better Democrats, has BlueAmerica considered backing John Boccieri in OH?
Boccieri just won the Democratic primary for filling U.S. House seat of retiring R. Ralph Regula. The populace has grown more and more blue of late.
The seat looks ripe for picking.
I hope Howie will take a look. I wish I knew more about the guy, but his background looks pretty good. Link to his website is below.
http://www.johnforcongress.com/
He did a great job in a couple of those hearings — you could tell there was a lot more going on that he knew about that absolutely incensed him. Whet my appetite to know more as well…
Has anyone mentioned that the Northrup/EADS tanker program will include a new manufacturing plant in …. Alabama? Boeing has existing plants in Washington and Kansas – both states have Democratic Governors and WA has Dem senators and reps. No way will Bush give any boost to the economies of WA and KS.
Karen
CORRECTION: “…who are pullin the strings from the DLC and…”
Good luck with getting Congress to do anything. They are nothing but battered wives of the GOP and are afraid to speak up. Have our illustrious candidates said anything about the DOJ problems? Maybe I missed the statements and outrage from our politicos.
Thanks, though, for at least getting the FDL sunshine on the problem,.
Norske — grouping Clinton and McCain together as thought they were politically the same in inaccurate. Just as her inaccurate portrayal of Obama as lesser than McCain is wrong. Please don’t do that — it’s just plain wrong. And it cheapens the discussion as much as her surrogate efforts have done this week. It’s beneath you, and you shouldn’t do it…
I don’t know — you’d have to ask Howie on that one…
How difficult will it be to root out all the loyal repug career employees? I am very worried that it may be extremely difficult to remove any of these wingnut fed employees. Kudos to Scott Horton for his excellent reporting on these issues and thanks here for highlighting them regularly.
I don’t know the definitive answer, but the election on March 4 elected delegates to the county conventions, which are to be held on March 29. It is my understanding that the delegates elected on March 4 will vote on March 29 for delegates to the state convention on April 21. That lesser number of delegates, representing a reduction of the percentages elected on 3/4 and 3/29, will vote in the state convention for either Obama or Clinton. I don’t know at what point they are deciding the numbers are official.
Oldgold – You and I know the corruption of southern politics. They never agreed to the Constitution when they joined the Union. They believed in elite rule not democracy. Those attitudes are still there. It’s not just Alabama but Misissippi and Louisiana are just as corrupt. When the Southern States returned to the Union they went kicking and screaming. Every time I hear about the corruption in Pakistan or Iraq I say to myself, Just like Louisiana.
Without the DOJ, harsh segragation and Jim Crow would be alive and well. It’s Federal law that keeps them in tow.
That reminds me of the time I needed to get a memo out at work and the computers were down. It took me about 20 minutes of stressing to remember that I could use pencil and paper!
Obviously not the case for here at the Lake, but it hit a funny bone.
I try to push publicly where I’ve been trying to get traction privately as well. Sometimes, the two-step works. *g* Here’s hoping, anyway…
Also, public hearings revealed the taping system in the WH via Alexander Butterfield during the Nixon Administration. You just never know what you’re going to find out. I do feel very frustrated, though, when you hear Lurita Doan and you know she’s allowed her department to participate in politics on government time and on government property illegally, and she’s still there.
Neither of them are going to be replaced before the next election cycle.
If that’s the consensus, then I still support strong public threats to replace them, if only to put pressure on them to move more quickly.
Time is running out. If some Democrats attempt to continue these investigations after November (assuming a Democrat wins the White House), the press will absolutely tear them to pieces for disrupting “national unity”.
It’s going to be very difficult, absent some showing of bad acts or other issues, because civil service tenure begins to vest and then firing for cause becomes the standard at review, as I understand it. (We have a lot of prior civil servents who read here, so if someone can speak to the process on that, I’d love to hear your thoughts.) They timed a lot of the hirings for when the GOP Congress was looking the other way — it was very much a Cheney understanding of the levers of government and a Rovian willingness to pervert government to his own ends as a planning question, I think…and we will all be paying the price for it for years to come.
Good day to all at the lake,
I keep coming back to the fact congress people who make about $150,000. a year have over $3 million average spent by lobbyists spent on them,which begs the question where will they spend most of their time?
Is the south different from NY or New Jersey?
“It just HAS to happen eventually.“
I hear you. It’s like he’s a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs; eventually something bad’s gonna happen (although in this case it would be good!)
Not really. Same tactics, same money and power objectives for the ones holding it at the moment, just different accents. *g*
the gutless careerism of lawyers generally and of plenty of current DOJ lawyers. Way to sell out the people, motherfuckers.
hey – some of my best friends are lawyers. And then there others who are, well, motherfuckers. *g*
Hasn’t Mrs. Cllinton put herself in the same company as McCain? She herself has lauded him and not attacked him. Don’t see how pointing out the similarities they themselves see is wrong.
The republicans all want the Clintons because they did very very well politically sliming the Clintons day and night. They simply want to sing the same refrane all over again with the Clintons in the White House, or get rid of the Clintons for once and for all. The media have their marching order to pump up Sen. Clinton. And so they are.
On the reverse side though, Obama had better step up their instantaneous response system to the verbal boulders coming their way.
What an apt and depressing analogy.
It’s like this whole situation: damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Even if juicy tidbits come out in hearings, the media will not report it at best, or they’ll poopoo it with glee.
What I said was that her tactic on that was wrong — but acting in a way that is wrong in response does not make it right, now does it? (And why am I having a flashback to my mom…)
On a positive political note, Bill Foster won Dennis Hastert’s old house seat.
The GOP poured a lot of money into this, twice what the Dems spent, and yet, Hastert’s reliable district changed hands.
Things are shaping up nicely for November.
1,781 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
“…grouping Clinton and McCain together as thoug(h) they were politically the same i(s) inaccurate…”
Sorry Christy, but Mrs. Clinton has done that herself to gain political advantage with the clever calculation that progressives will never hold her to her own articulated political posturing…I call “BULLSHIT”. She likened herself to McCain and set up the comparison of herself and McCain to Obama…and now she’s tied to ‘im and this old Norwegian won’t let her off the hook. No dear, Mrs. Clinton has invited us to compare her to McCain and contrast with Obama…and she gets closer and closer ta McCain the stronger the lens in the microscope.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION…BY THEIR OWN WORDS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM!!!
Mukasy is a slimy eel. I like it!
Speaking of more and BETTER Democrats, the guy that won Denny Hastert’s seat I was told is a blue dog. Is there a real advantage to Dems other than just to be able to tout it as a win if the seat is filled with a blue dog?
To ask a body that dismissed its oversight responsibilities as prescribed in the Constitution to hold hearings, is like taking the bridge from nowhere to nowhere.
I beg your pardon? Are you suggesting that Senator Lieberman’s Oversight Committee isn’t going to be just all over this?
“I do feel very frustrated, though, when you hear Lurita Doan and you know she’s allowed her department to participate in politics on government time and on government property illegally, and she’s still there.“
Yet another in the loooong list of things I find outrageous about this government. I mean she was caught dead to rights violating the letter of the law and we’re still paying her.
Effing unbelievable!
Somebody was gonna say that – if you didn’t! Hillary did put herself with McCain – both have a lot of experience. Did anyone else catch the beginning of Saurday Night Live? It was the 3am phone call bit with Obama as President phoning Hillary for advice. Pretty hilarious. I think it played well for Obama.
He reminds me of Nader in 2000. Nader deserves the opposite
of a Nobel Peace Prize.
There are a number of lawyers who have stuck it out at the DOJ to try and slow or stall the politicization process as best they can, because someone had to stay there to enforce the rule of law and to stand up for what was right in internal deliberations. They have stuck it out under severe criticism, marginalization and incredibly nasty atmosphere, so that when the Bush Administration finishes, there will be decent people in place to clean up the mess from day one.
And those people should be thanks…and often…because they are heroes for doing it in a whole lot of departments. I couldn’t have stuck it out, even knowing the desperate need for it at the end of the day, because I would have wanted to let someone have it one too many times. Think about the folks in the appellate division who flat out refused to sign off on the last Gitmo brief, just as one example, or the career folks in the civil rights division who stuck it out even through Shlotzman’s tenure, and you begin to see how difficult this has all been for them — because they believe in doing the right thing and holding the line.
It’s not always the people who publicly quit, it’s also the ones who stay and are able to reshape things for the better immediately upon the next administration’s start…
So, two wrongs make a right for you, then? Even if it also damages the Democratic brand? Good to know…
If the Democrats win by a landslide from the the top of the ticket down to local races, I think a strong argument could be made there’s a mandate to investigate. Especially if there are record numbers of Democrats and new voters.
One of the things that would be great if all the new participants in the process stayed involed at some level. It’s great to see so many people engaged, and I know from my personal experience how much more fufiling it’s been beyond voting.
He did say he would vote against telecom immunity. Stoller had something onthat, if I remember correctly, at OpenLeft…
Please remember that the next two in line behind Nancy Pelosi in the House are Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emmanuel. If she is removed as Speaker, even in the next Congress (which is doubtful), those two are the most likely replacements.
Which would be a case of being careful what you ask for as you might get it.
hillary/mccain
sticking to the doj topic seems more… well topical and in need of much exposer.
Any news on Dodd and immunity?
Mukasy is a slimy eel. I like it!
Mukasey = Mucous-y
Henry Waxman also has refused to follow up on the Sibel Edmonds allegations. This has been troubling to me.
Now there’s an image that makes me lose my appetite. OK, I can handle cupcake a little white longer.
Nothing new that I’ve heard — but I was offline quite a bit last night due to a big snow/windstorm here.
Well said, tw3k, we could spend hours listing Billary’s offenses to the Democratic Party
2 recent verbal interchanges from the telly that just fried my sox!?!
1) Gwen Ifil interviewing Sen. Mitch McConnell on Lehrer program this past month.
Gwen: [asked what McConnell expects in ‘08, given that they had a good year in ‘04, meaning that 26 Repubs are up for re-election this year, vs. only 12 Dems facing re-election]
MitchMcC: “I have great optimism we have a good chance to stay where we are.”
2) Lehrer interviewing AttyGen. Mukasey on 2/11/08:
Lehrer: “… but the Justice Dept. works?”
Mukasey: “Yes. It works very hard.”
Lehrer: “[I mean] it works for the people of the United States?”
Mukasey: “Yes.”
[crickets… end of conversation]
I am clearly going to have to put up a spare poo thread today, aren’t I?
Henry Waxman also has refused to follow up on the Sibel Edmonds allegations. This has been troubling to me.
More than “troubling” to me. More like infuriating, maddening, inexcusable, irresponsible, gutless (fill in additional adjectives here as needed)….
Have to admit, I totally agree with this. I, too, remember the adage that two wrongs don’t make a right. Sen. Clinton compared herself to McCain, favorably too, and contrasted themselves to Obama. We are just taking her at her word and doing just that. Comparing her to McCain. That is how she wants it.
Because the result of not comparing and contrasting Clinton/McCain is to let her off the hook for her political duplicity. To ‘tsk-tsk’ at her and not respond is to let her comments stay on the table unresponded to. I hope that does not happen. She needs to be held accountable for her own words.
Sorry Christy, and maybe I am just to angry at the whole mess we are in, much through our own dem political leaders weakness, but IMO I want to fight back against everyone who wants to give the republicans some hiding room to spew their venum.
This time, I will not turn the other cheek.
I seldom disagree with you, But I do on this one.
I agree that in both New Jersey and Alabama the corruption is concerned with money and power. The difference is that in Alabama there is more involved. Something far more important. The crushing of the inalienable rights of a significant group of the state’s citizens based on their race.
the primaries really has been a distraction from the oversight roll of the community.
Rove, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Bush and so many others have complete disdain for the law. Why? Because after all they did and continue to do not one of them has been held to account. Libby came the closest but he was punished with nothing more than genteel retirement. So what impetus do they have to come clean? None.
We threw a lot of firepower at the Clinton campaign this week over a bad tactical choice. A lot of it. But taking up that same tactic against her doesn’t make it right because it’s against her and not for her.
Criticize the tactic? Absolutely. Employ it? Then you might as well be Mark Penn’s acolyte. Sorry, but that’s how I feel. This “hate one, do whatever it takes to damage her no matter the effects” is not okay in my book.
You hit on issues, you don’t damage the brand — and when you do, whether you are Sen. Clinton or someone else, it is NOT okay.
I am clearly going to have to put up a spare poo thread today, aren’t I?
lol. What, are you somehow sensing some frustration ’round these parts?
heh. Well, I *did* miss the first one…
I’ve tried to figure out why, in Watergate, the legislature was effective in investigating and exercising oversight. I guess it had to do with, a larger Democratic majority, more Republicans with integrity, more press integrity, several tough judges with integrity, special prosecutors with integrity, and greater public understanding of the Constitution. At the time, I thought it was a matter of sheer luck that the initial crooks had left tape on a door. Now I feel like it may have been a matter of luck that all those factors were in place to make the system work.
You aren’t alone in your frustration, believe me — I’ve got it in spades on a whole lot of fronts at the moment. But every single thread does not need to devole into “your candidate sucks” “no yours does” “yours is a doodyhead” “no yours is”
It’s wearing me out. Especially when there are so many other things that need sunshine, too…
How much damage has Hillary caused the Democratic brand with her McCain nonsense?
You are so right. A huge thanks to those that have stuck it out and are still trying to do the right thing. Thanks for that reminder.
But how about irregularities in their hiring, like they fudged their resume or someone pulled strings to move their application above others unfairly, etc.? Surely there is something illegal about hiring for a civil service job as if the job were a patronage job!
I’m sorry — did you miss the part where I said we spent a LOT of time calling her on the boneheadedness of that as a political tactic? Or did you just choose to ignore that fact so you could take another swipe at her in the comments about something we have discussed ad nauseum for a week?
That raises a LOT of questions — especially the Goodling “checklist” issues. Big questions…
It seems this is about issues – the issue of being ready as commander-in-chief and whether Obama or Hillary is more ready. She compares herself to McCain. O.K. let’s take at look at what a McCain type Clinton DOD would look like. The picture is troubling. And this is my last comment on that side issue. Sorry, but my anger is seething. You get mad at the DOJ debacle, and the commander in chief issue really concerns me.
As far as the topic, I have worried about the career positions now held by neo-cons and what will happen if a dem is elected prez in ‘08. I am sure there are really good people still embedded in the DOJ and they will be given a more prominent role, and the neo-cons will be marginalized. Hopefully to resign, but I doubt it. But I do fear that anything happenig internally will be leaked to benefit the republicans because of all the moles in place. It will take a very strong Attorney General. One who can knock heads together and has the president’s complete confidence, because any push back agains the criminal activitiy in the DOJ will be met with outrage. :-)
1,781 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
“So two wrongs make a right for you then?”
Awe come on Christy…this ain’t an exercise in freshman ethics. Mrs. Clinton made a clever, calculated rhetorical challenge elevating McCain and herself and encouraging comparison to Obama. Not only was it BAD politics for Democrats but it should be fatal to Mrs. Clinton, unless we don’t hold her to it and tattoo her to her own portrait. I’ll I’m gunna do is continue the comparison and I’m keeping her on the same line in the page as John McCain because that’s where she placed herself. It’s rhetorical, and it’s “hardball” but it’s skewering her on her own petard, so ta speak. And it is ethical by the structure of ethics that Mrs. Clinton used in the first place.
Amoral, self-centered power seekers, like Mrs. Clinton, prey on the tendancy of us “good guys” to not hold them accountable to their own corrupt standards. Not ME, sister, not ME!!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND NEVER LET ‘EM OUTTA THE TRAP THEY SET THEMSLEVES FOR US!!
I’m sick of this too, however, if you want to take the high road with talk of “Branding” then Clinton must be held accountable for her role in this mess. It is just so Lieberman of her.
Heaven knows, you’re doing your best Christy.
Seems to me, the site could be looking like our local recycling center, with separate bins for trash, metal, & paper, but it might not be half as interesting.
Complicated, frustrating world leads to complicated, frustrated feelings all around. We’ll try to cooperate. Honest. *g*
Not talking about a debate on the issues, Norske — I’ve already said many times that her employment of that tactic was wrong.
What I was talking about was your use of Clinton/McCain as being the same which is, simply, not correct no matter how much you may not like her — his policy positions are far to the right of her. And, whether you like it or not, whomever wins the Dem nomination is going to get my full support because McCain in the presidency is NOT acceptable for me. And I’m not going to sit back silently and allow you to link the two of them policywise as though there isn’t a hair’s breadth of difference between them on every issue when that is simply false.
The right to choose, judicial appointments, support of science…the differences are striking on a whole host of important issues, and employing a rhetorical flourish does not make them go away. I still think it is likely based on the numbers that Obama will ultimately be the nominee, which would then render this moot…but dislike of Sen. Clinton does not mean that you get to say whatever factually inaccurate thing about her you like, including misrepresenting a whole host of policies, just to tar her brand int he same way that you criticize her doing with Obama.
It just doesn’t make it right, and I won’t sit silently by while you or anyone else does it. I criticized her, and no one else gets a pass either. This election cycle is too important.
I’m just speaking as a retired civil servant. not in DOJ. If the partisan political appointees are replaced by objective civil servants, they will be in the leadership positions to monitor, rate, and promote the career civil servants. While the career civil servants have their own political views (I certainly did), they are required to conduct their duties in a purely non-partisan way and can be held to account if they do otherwise. They can be fired if they do anything unethical, criminal, or severely negligent of their responsibilities. Otherwise, documented unsuccessful performance, over a period of time would provide a basis for dismissal. Disciplinary infractions can be a basis for immediate firing. Performance issues require documentation, counselling, etc., over an extended period.
That’s all if you follow OPM rules, which the Republicans obviously have not.
“It will take a very strong Attorney General. One who can knock heads together and has the president’s complete confidence, because any push back agains the criminal activitiy in the DOJ will be met with outrage.”
That’s the money quote. Who will be able to let the hits roll off of her/him?
Jeebus — here you go on all the accountability then:
– Bloggers, Netroots and the Primary Season
– Why Is Hillary Campaigning for McCain?
– What Does Experience Mean?
– Clinton Campaign on 3 am Ad
– Protecting the Brand
And that’s just from this past week, and just posts — if I statrted listing all the comments form the threads about this, we’d be here for a month. When I said we’d been talking about it a lot, I really wasn’t kidding…
I understand – really.
But this is where we come to vent, celebrate, commiserate, congratulate, question, joke, etc. It’s certainly unfortunate that at the moment we’ve all developed tunnel-vision on the D primary race.
But where else are we gonna go? Lots of passionate people here – I can only imagine the frustration of trying to keep focus properly dispersed. It’ll get better, I think.
This site has done a very good job of trying to keep the discussion civil. For the most part, it has succeeded. I really appreciate that. Thank you.
And here, deep in EPU land, may I just take this moment to sing the praises of my Windows Media Player? It has “chosen wisely” all morning. I am pleased…
Christy,
You convinced me to put aside my anger of the last week or so and return to my old position of defeating McCain and Republicans regardless. I really abhor the tactic, and will never feel the same about her, but I will catch myself before saying anything which will harden the Democratic divisions and help McCain.
My coffee pot, however, seems to be feeling the strain, poor thing….
I think Julie’s post on Friday really laid out a number of the issues at stake this year — and when you coule it with the above from Scott Horton and everything we know about politicization not just at the DOJ but across the agencies, you get a feel for the vast issues that I’m just not comfortable allowing McCain to reform…because he won’t. He’ll continue down the Bush/Cheney path, and we simply cannot afford that…not on women’s health and contraception issues, not on rule of law, not on foreign poicy, not on civil rights enforcement, not on…well, you get the picture.
Sorry, Christy, but I just have to give you my take on this. When folks say that Hill did this to herself, that she set herself up as comparing favorably along with John McCain, they are right. While I understand what you’re saying about damaging the Dem brand, and I sympathize, I think you are dismissing the idea that Hillary did this, that she’ll be doing it again, that people other than Dems (like Indies and Obamaniacs) hear this crap, that they are bound to draw the same conclusions that Norske, et al drew. I myself have said that Hillary’s statement was tantamount to giving McCain, her general election opponent, a big, wet, verbal french kiss. Blame Hillary, blame Canada, I don’t care. But it’s not our fault because we are drawing the conclusions that she meant to be drawn and she hasn’t even attempted to take it back! I hope I don’t have to explain my thought process about her surrogates calling Obama Ken Star, or Bush, or KKKarl, because that is worse than most hardball politics. AFAIC, she just cannot boost herself up without tearing the other guy down. That’s the very reason we need a change with whole new set of political rules.
LOL!!!
Please read here for a longer lining out of what I meant.
But I think we’re talking about just the reverse. You said:
But what if previously civil service positions are replaced in such a way that they seem to be hired as civil servants, but were essentially political appointees in their hiring practices. How do they get around those rules. For instance, some people who were hired for civil service positions were hired based on their answers to questions about Roe vs Wade, and other such outrageous political questions. Is this allowed? Should it be?
CNN is saying that McCain might not become prez if elected. ‘coz he wasn’t born in the US (he was born in the Panama Canal Zone when it still belonged to the US–now it doesn’t)…bill is being sponsored in Congress that would allow McCain to be prez in any case. Guess who’s sponsoring that bill? Obama(rama)
I gotta admit, I think that whole theory of McCain not being eligible, or for that matter, Romney not being elibible because they were not born in the US, is utterly ridiculous. CNN should know better than to even be giving such a theory a platform.
It’s obviously terrible, but the appointment of new U.S. attorneys will head each office and new officials in the DOJ will supervise the entire system. Only if a civil servant lied on their application, could the be removed immediately for that reason. Otherwise, if someone filed a protest that they were unfairly not hired, based on political reasons, they might be able to prove that the hiree should be dismissed. That’s not likely to have happened in many cases, althought there are probably still cases in process where people are protesting specific promotions as unfair.
Anyway, correction would be a long process, but I wouldn’t want to be caught taking an obviously partisan action, if the my superiors were conscientious,non partisan civil servants. We wouldn’t want some kind of pogrom to get rid of Republicans, because it would be just as bad as what they are doing.
I don’t think there is a requirement to complete the tallies, but it will be done by March 29, which is the District Conventions. At that point, all the delegates from the caucuses will attend. Then, delegates (a smaller number) will be elected to the State Convention. There, all delegates (elected at the convention and in the primary) will attend the National Convention. BTW, all points to Obama having taken the lion’s share of caucus delegates.
It’s a belt-and-suspenders situation. Funny thing is, I’d think McCain’s supporters would be the ones most likely to complain about a candidate for president being born in a non-North American territory.
Technically, they may be right. My youngest son was born in Okinawa, when I was stationed there in the USAF. I thought all I needed was a plain old birth certificate. It turned out that the law required one registration and certificate with the Department of Immigration and Naturalization,and another with the Department of State. I only got one at the time. So, while he is a U.S. citizen, it is my understanding that he couldn’t have gone to one of the military academies and can’t run for president. I think we could go back and get the State Department certificate, but not without huge effort.
YES! They BOTH need to go, and Chris Dodd heading up the Senate sounds good to me!
Sounds like everyone with an “R” after their name is going to need a pardon before this is done , huh?