Back in November, I wrote a brief article describing how I expected the financial meltdown underway to continue, and how I expected it to impact the real economy. Below I'm reprinting the 10 predictions I made and I've put in italics those which have already occurred.
1) Housing prices and sales will continue to decline. Expect 3 years before the bottom, as a very optimistic best case scenario.
2) Commerical real-estate will suffer a steep decline as well.
3) Consumer demand will drop. Unemployment will rise.
4) The US will go into a recession at best, a depression at worst. Expect first stagflation (high inflation and high unemployment), both because of the increased price of imports and deliberate pump priming by the Fed, then deflation, as asset prices collapse so hard they take everything else with them. The other likely scenario is stagflation followed by hyperinflation. Formal inflation numbers put out will become not just a joke amongst market-watchers, but amongst the actual population. Same thing with unemployment numbers.
5) The Asian economies are not going to "decouple", they are going to have their own financial crises and recessions. Yes, this includes China.
6) China's stock market will collapse some time next year. China will go into a recession. There will be huge amounts of violence and the Chinese government will redirect anger towards the US and Japan.
7) Multiple banks will probably go insolvent. They are simply holding too much crap paper. There will be an extreme tightening of consumer debt of all kinds, including consumer loans, credit cards and mortgages (this is already beginning, but you ain't seen nothing yet). Even people with good credit will start having difficulty getting loans.
8) Protectionism is going to get stronger. Even if Clinton, a free trader, is put in power, by the time the 2010 Congressional elections are over no "free trade" bill will be able to pass Congress and in fact actual tariffs are likely to be put in place.
9) I wouldn't be surprised, at some point, to see capital controls put in place to stop money-flight from the US.
10) When the full extent of how bad things are hits Joe Public, expect a move for reregulation of Wall Street and to reinstitute something similiar to Glass-Steagall.
Bonus Predictions:
11) The government will have to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because they are insolvent. Minimum 500 billion dollars. Possibly much more.
12) Large waves of government layoffs at the municipal and state levels as the inability to raise money cheaply and the reduced property taxes cascade through the system. (Yes, this is already starting to happen, so it's kind of a safe prediction. But it's going to get magnitudes worse. Many many municipalities are going to go bankrupt, and many states will be unable to maintain any but the barest of services.)
13) The price of oil will actually drop as there is an actual demand reduction for oil. Don't expect this to necessarily be reflected in pump prices, which are constrained by refinery capacity.
14) The federal government will become the largest holder of mortgages, and in effect, owner of houses, in the country. By far. The Fed, which has been accepting sub-prime paper already, is going to wind up stuck with a lot of it, because some of the banks using it as "collateral" are not going to survive absent huge government bailouts.
15) A serious collapse of the US stock market, probably by September at the latest. Maybe within a couple months.
The important thing to know about all of these predictions is that they aren't new. They aren't even, really, from November. Myself, Stirling, the late Oldman and others were writing about how current policies lead to stagflation, for example, as far back as 2004. Stirling and I were talking about the Housing Bubble as far back as 2002 when it became clear that Greenspan had dropped rates so far he was bound to create one.
This is not to say that we were particularly bright (and lord knows I got the timing wrong), rather it is to say that for the last 6 odd years, nothing has changed. The basic pattern of the Bush years was set in stone after 9/11, the policies of the Presidency, the Fed and Congress haven't changed. So the events unfolding now are just the logical consequences of decisions made years ago such as:
- to invade Iraq;
- to make tax cuts for the rich in order to bail them out from the dotcom crash;
- to drop interest rates through the floor;
- to allow a telecom oligopoly to form;
- to condone Chinese mercantilist policies which subsidized Chinese exports with a low Yuan;
- to tolerate the Yen carry trade, and
- to refuse to regulate the creation of money in the form of securitization and exotic derivatives.
In 2002 and 2004 the American people voted to continue these policies, including the war in Iraq. In 2006 they voted to end at least some of these policies, but Congress and the President decided to kick the ball down the field, pass some pork bills and wait till 2009 to do anything about any of it. Their bet was they could hold the meltdown off till after the election. They were wrong.
So, what had to be, now is. The performance with the stimulus bill, which was about the worst bill one could create if the actual purpose was to, oh, stimulate the economy, plus the various other futzing around by Congress indicates that no serious changes will be made before 2009. Occasionally something smart may be done, some good idea may go through on the margins, but overall we're in a gray zone where the train trundles on towards that light in the tunnel, and nothing is going to turn it around until a new Congress and new President are sworn in.
And when they do get in, what are they going to do? The truth is that even they don't really know. There are no easy answers because the US (and the world, in a sense) has dug itself into a hole that is bigger than the pile of dirt on the side. More damage will be done than there is free money hanging around to fix. The miracle of leverage in reverse is going to remind everyone why "over-leverage" is something old style brokers considered the greatest mistake anyone could make.
The old, oil based, suburban sprawl economy based on forever rising house prices, on easy credit, on subdivision after subdivision--on running up credit cards and on leverage piled on leverage piled on arbitrage, is in the middle of cracking up, spectacularly. While there will be a short term reduction in the price of oil, in the long term oil is still going up and the America of the sprawl economy; the economic geography of America, looks entirely different at $4/gallon gasoline than it does at $2/gallon gasoline. Huge swathes of exurbia and suburbia become simply economically unviable. Zombie Burbs.
Since I've been contributing here at FDL, a big part of what I've been writing has been an attempt to give readers a basic toolset with which to understand the intersection of politics and economics (and, at the macro level, they always intersect). Over the next few months I'm going to start writing less about what has happened than about what can happen. Not just about how we can "fix" things, but what sort of future the status quo path leads to, what other types of futures are available to us and what the tradeoffs are for various futures (and there are always tradeoffs. Never agree to a plan without knowing who's paying, and what, because if you don't, it's probably you.)
The past is not the future, and the trendline is never inevitable. Hope may not be a plan, but there is always at least a chance to make a change, and make that change for the better. As the American economy collapses around us so too will a lot of the American power and policy apparatus which has made the status quo, a status quo which has served so few so well, and so many badly, so hard for anyone to change. And in the shadow of the collapse there will be a time when we are freer to make choices about what sort of society we want to live in than we have been for a long time.
But only if we're ready for it. Only if we have thought about what sort of world we want. If we don't know, others will know for us, decide for us.
FDR wasn't just a man. FDR was a movement.
So let's start making an FDR.
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Sounds like a possible economic depression.
How will President McCain fix the economy?
ditto what kiddo says
recession my left foot, we’re in serious economic doodoo
Ian, Aloha…!
How will President
McCainMcBu’ush fix the economy?____
Make the Bu’ush tax cuts permanent. Bingo. Done. Problem solved.
Ian from your prediction #4:
You mean like how they reported that the economy lost 63K jobs in February but the “unemployment rate” dropped to 4.8?
Looking forward to it. Thanks as always for your thought-provoking posts.
Yeah! More of the Same McCain!
Ian, wrt to prediction 14: looks like this may already be happening. From today’s NYT:
In a surprise announcement early Friday, the Federal Reserve said it would inject about $200 billion into the nation’s banking system this month — with more to come after that — by offering banks one-month loans at low rates and in return letting them pledge mortgage-backed bonds and even riskier assets as collateral.
15 inches of snow outside and now this.
Must.Keep.Sharp.Objects.Hidden!
We have about $15,000,000,000 going out each month to support a couple of wars and tax cuts and an upcoming so called stimulas package rebate. And employers are cutting jobs. Could any of this have an impact on our less than robust economy?
Cool!
I took mine straight off his campaign website and Photoshopped it.
Heh, I feel good, my Stimulus letter arrived today from the IRS… ‘Course, the check’s in the mail…! ;-)
We might be in need of an additional war too, (say Iran perhaps).
How much you wanna bet it’ll be declarable as “taxable income” on next year’s returns. Just like his 2001 rebates.
Those ’stimulus’ notices cost about 14 million *sigh*
One of my friends was a whistleblower several years ago, I won’t identify which of your numbered items since that could uniquely ID him/her, and no one was willing to listen. It destroyed my friend’s career. The truth is coming out now. People DO try and stop the train wrecks, and get run over in the process.
Isn’t Cleveland asking the Feds to step in…!
Fannie Mae is onboard the McCain campaign.
Yeah, the stimulus is something of a stimulus, though not much, and the war spending is stimulus as well. The US economy would have hit a recession at least a year ago if it weren’t for Iraq war spending. Of course war spending isn’t very efficient stimulus spending, but at least the money gets to the /right/ people.
:D I took yours and ran it through the gimp.
Did you try that svg McCain head?
I read $42 million.
We need cheap oil.
WASHINGTON - The United States and Iraq are opening negotiations in Baghdad on a blueprint for a long-term relationship, plus a narrower deal to define the legal basis for a U.S. troop presence, a Pentagon official said Friday.
That was the figure I recall, too… $42 Mil.! 8-)
Why does funding a war in Iraq get money “to the right people.” Seems to me much of the spending is on logistics there, and it’s unlikely the products come from here. One the other hand, buying guns, ammunition, armored vehicles built here would have a stimulus effect, but it’s always seemed to me somewhat inflationary, sends is creating incomes, but not producing goods and services consumers need here. Does this make sense?
Why even bother after all these years?
Will the jobs that have been lost in the manufacturing industry be replaced, Ian? I don’t think they will. Oh boy.
I heard a commercial recently on the radio (a “Come to Montana” commercial) and the big selling point was the jobs………..in the service industry. Yep! The commercial said Montana was fantastic and you could find a job as a waiter/waitress/hotel worker/custodian anywhere! LOL Sad. But that’s the kind of economy Bush has allowed to be created.
I’ve lost track of how much bailout largesse has gone to the banks already. And the manuevers to pacify Wall St. haven’t been enough; there’s never enough …
Engdahl, I think it was, predicts 30% overall loss in the housing market, with perhaps 50% decrease in some areas. Yikes.
Meanwhile, the military-congressional-industrial complex is ramping up even more military spending. Presumably to counter “the Yellow Peril”. Again. Sooner or later, China is going to stop backing our deficit spending addiction. What they export to the U.S. is something like only 0.4% of their GDP. Would they miss that market? No.
meu deus, you are right, i mistyped the number. *even bigger sigh*
I fail to see how a nation can fight multi billion dollar wars without raising taxes. I say stop the wars, raise taxes and put the war savings into infra structure, environmental WPA type job creation, health care and education, among other things. This ridiculous stimulus rebate baloney is just that. Baloney.
I’m probably wrong about this, but, isn’t the unemployment rate tied to how many folks are receiving benefits? So many people are unemployed and have been for so long that they have run out of benefits. They’re not receiving checks…but they are still unemployed.
This economy, tied to war and corporate BS, is scaring me so much I went out and got a job. I usually just temp, but I’m not embarrased to say I’m Really Worried about the future.
(The good part is, the new company is Very Green.)
I meant /right/ as in “right”. The right defense companies are owned by the “right” people and they are situated in read areas, staffed by Republicans mostly, etc…
they’re the “right” people.
And look at how much Americans put into their savings accounts these days.
The unemployment rate is not based on UI benefits, it is the number of people considered to be looking for a job who don’t have one, as a percentage of the labor force. How you define “looking for a job” has a huge effect on what the unemployment rate is.
Very scarey.
Well, I don’t have much in savings, but, if I keep my nose to the grindstone and keep this job, I’m gonna buy Land. And, not in Paraguay.
NAFTA, CAFTA and the WTO. I don’t FDR would approve. We need a giant like FDR.
“Meanwhile, the military-congressional-industrial complex is ramping up even more military spending.”
The MIC is choking the fiscal life out of us, and until this is addressed in a serious way nothing much is going to change.
700 billion this year, and that doesn’t include all those “black box” budgets floating around Washington.
Demi,
I’m about to go and get a second job. I can’t get into the hospital i want to get in at the moment. I applied earlier and got no call at all. So…i have to bide my time for a few months and see where it gets me. I qualify for food stamps, but that’s about it for government aid and only for 3 months at that point. But to get one other job for one day a week in addition to the 30 or so i work already per week most of the time? I can do. With occaisional 46 or 50 hour weeks depending. I’ll hurt after those ones, but the money will be worth it to get things evened out before i get myself hired into the job my credentials now qualify for. (and worth my sanity as well.)
But michigan’s economy has been shot for years, now it’s going even further down. So this stop gap measure is exactly that, until things start to pick up for the summer. There’s no use in reapplying if they haven’t called me right now. Middle of may? Maybe.
Ironically, The Chinese holding $2-3 Trillion of our debt and manufacturing 80% of our consumables, with a higher 90-95% of our clothing needs, it would be a lot bloodier for us… 8-(
D’oh.
Sorry.
Okay, I totally believe you.
So, then how do they come up with such optimistically low numbers?
Must be a mathematical deallybob that I don’t get. (which doesn’t take much.)
That should read: I don’t ‘think’ FDR would approve.
moo doo ta you too (with apologies to Fred G. Sanford.)
Ah. Makes sense. I was thinking that the public usually thinks of the economic downturns as cyclical, a sooner or later thing; one of the things that could get folks up in arms is CEO pay, which Waxman was exploring in a hearing yesterday:
Greenspan, Bernanke, and NYC banks broke the country.
When do we eliminate the Federal Reserve Banking System?
When you don’t like the outcome from your statistics; change the formula.
This is how they figure it all out.
We must get the public to understand that these serious problems were caused by the conservative agenda, which has been growing in influence since 1980.
Then we can have our FDR. If we fail to do that, the public will just blame “the politicians” instead of the conservative philosophy.
And as his father’s were before him!
I hesitate to even bring this up, but what happens when the next Katrina hits and we haven’t even finished rebuilding from the first one yet?
Also, how much of this is due to China being our financier?
Am I wrong to feel that I just wish Gore were in charge? There is going to be a need for whole new industries for greening the earth and saving our planet. I know he’s going to be part of that, but I can’t help but wish he were actually in charge.
How much of this is Alan (of course Lincoln Saving is solvent! What are you Fed boys talking about?) Greenspan’s fault?
What about the ‘Right’ people like the Carlyle Group leveraging 32 times…! ;-)
It would be nice to have an FDR. I fear that, instead, we are going to get Lou Dobbs or likely worse. Someone who will get people to believe that a particular group of people [immigrants, liberals, dark skinned people I mean does it matter?] are responsible for people’s economic misery.
We are ripe for real totalitarian government if the economy keeps hurtling downhill.
Sympathetic Hug.
When I first moved to my community, coupla years ago, I checked out the administrative jobs at a (very close by) community college. Lotsa rules, you gotta apply on such and such a day…blah, blah. I took my son to school first, ’cause you couldn’t apply online - the only way - until 8:00, and by the time I got back, there were so many apps that they had already closed the site to new applications.
;(
It’s no longer about corporate responsibility. It’s about share holder bottom line. And outsourcing, among aother things, helps achieve that bottom line.
As for protectionism, it won’t work. Why? Because the countries we are trying to protect ourselves from will do the same to us.
Is that a first cousin to cherry picking?
How was the ride?
Perhaps keep in mind that President Bill Clinton seemed to like Greenspan too.
A few years ago the news was that Janet Napolitano had managed to balance the AZ budget which had gone awry do to the alternative fuels fiasco here, and that she did it without having to raise taxes (I think.) Now it looks like we’re back in the red. I don’t have any idea what happened at this point because I just haven’t been paying enough attention. This is really sad.
Shrub added economic crises into the COG etiquette, mighty white of him, wouldn’t you say…? ;-)
“Am I wrong to feel that I just wish Gore were in charge? There is going to be a need for whole new industries for greening the earth and saving our planet. I know he’s going to be part of that, but I can’t help but wish he were actually in charge.”
No, you aren’t. I’m still mad at him for not running. I always thought if he was really serious about making change, POTUS was the place to be.
Besides, he already won it once. How hard would it be to win again?
Can you say REGULATION….
Look at the presidents that preceded FDR…
The ride was great, my friend. The Red River is low. We rode the horses right across it. Everyone is back and they are clamoring to be fed. And that’s okay. I did a crock pot thingie before I left. ;0)
I did like FDR’s cousin, Teddy’s, trust busting ways…! ;-)
Federal tax receipts are plummeting. The Treasury has had to borrow $75 billion more than planned over the past three weeks, most of that due to lagging revenue.
A very odd thing has coincided with this flood of new Treasury issuance. In the face of this supply of short term paper; rates have been plummeting. This due to the dearth of safe alternatives as credit instruments of all flavors from prime corporate to every sort of CDO are considered too risky. The ultra low rates are in turn compounding the dollars weakness. All a sort of vicious circle. The exact opposite of the virtuous circle that held sway post 2001.
The Federal deficit could easily swell to a trillion dollar annual rate sometime in 09. In the face of this supply let me suggest that rates will rise. The Treasury will be in no condition to bail out the GSE’s and the markets won’t fund an RTC type bailout of them either. Every bailout plan is magical pony thinking.
The financial sphere is already in a depression. Trillions of dollars of fictitious capital will disappear. How the real world Main Street economy fares is open to question, but only questions of how bad it will be.
We are at an historic juncture which will bring to an end the post WWII economic and cultural norms. Neither political party has even an inkling of the vast shift now occurring and neither has a single policy in the back of their minds how to deal with it. All made worse by the fact that government on all levels will be going bankrupt and unable to do much of anything.
This is the biggest story in the lifetimes of all reading this. Great forces of history will now sweep over most of us, economic and social/political. I know and expect nobody will believe this stuff. It’s the worst sort of internet tin foil hat fodder. I actually hope I am textbook nutcase.
It is a point of honor for progressives to be ignorant of finance. Thus ceding all political ground to Free Market Fundamentalists except for ankle biting attacks on ‘greedy corporations’. Our predicament is founded on a financial sphere which has created the biggest bubble of all time, the credit bubble. The South Sea bubble or Tulip mania were sideshows by comparison. We are so close to it, living in it that it is difficult to see as the world of unlimited credit became the norm. To start to get a handle on these issues I suggest a month or two of serious study. After all, it’s about to become the biggest thing ever in your life.
Start here perhaps.
http://www.henryckliu.com/page151.html
Or here.
http://www.prudentbear.com/ind.....bleArchive
Is that “right” as opposed to “left”? *g*
I don’t understand how the war is a stimulus when you’re not actually paying for it–at least not on the budget. Aren’t we essentially putting the war on a credit card and the bill will come due later?
Also, what do you think the chances are that the Repugs get their own blame; I figure people are not gonna cut enough slack when most everything hits on Dem’s watch.
Ouch. I’m actually on the more prosperous side of michigan at the moment, the west side. It’s still hurting like hell though. Factories going overseas and now GM and Ford saying ’screw you!’ to the long time workers as well.
A friend of mine has observed that this is exactly what was possibly going to happen not long ago. The potential to go even worse is only a disaster and a decision away as well. For now, we’re both here and living and doing our best to make our way out of it. It’s all any of us can do, after all. He’s working on his pathway out of this mess, and i’m on my own. He helped me out with one leg of the journey(getting myself Certified) and now i’ve got to bide my time until i can get my end of the bargain. That job i want that will get me OUT of this rut. I don’t need much, just enough to even out my bills and shut the bill collectors up. (though i’ll likely need the aid of a debt recovery agency, i’m avoiding filing bankruptcy like the plague!) Being single and with no kids, i wont’ need too much money. I live fairly simply too, aside from a few foreign tastes in food and entertainment. Gimme my net, my books and my music and i’m all good. :D
Good goals for now. Especially with this crisis looming over our shoulders.
Ok Ian,
Now that you’ve gone all bogeyman on us, what are the answers to this fine mess
OllieDarth & Co. has gotten us into?Blackwater not comimg to California after all.
http://origin.mercurynews.com/.....ck_check=1
I’m repeating a question asked above. Do you envision any scenario which would bring manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.?
We were discussing at work spending the stimulus check on something to help the US economy. What would that be exactly? Nothing is made here. Someone suggested (tongue in cheek) that the only thing we could do is to blow the money at the local casino.
Yes. What ever happened to Sherman anti-trust.
Hi Ian: Thank you very much.
Ever notice how today’s gasoline is generic. Remember the “gas wars”?
It’s gonna be big. Trying not to frighten people too much.
Perhaps keep in mind that President Bill Clinton seemed to like Greenspan too.
The neurastheniacs running our Shadow Government liked Greenspan.
Clinton facilitated in the corruption of the Federal Reserve Banking System.
So. Most of us are going to end up in the ‘poor house’? That is, if we’re not already there.
Smoke and mirrors! Same as we’re doing with the soldiers to fight those wars. Just hiring more mercenaries, I presume, at hard telling how many times the price? Perhaps double? More?
It’s since been rendered a toothless tiger, through, both Judicial decisions and Legislative actions…! 8-(
BTW, my sweetie is on MSNBC now…!
And I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I stand convicted.
We’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg wiith the financial industry mess. A similar thing happened in the 80’s and it took a while for the full impact to be felt. I saw it first hand as a consultant to banks and, later, working with the Resolution Trust Co.
We are in the initial denial stage where everybody tries to convince each other that things are not that bad.
It’s going to be worse because we have had so much consolidation in the industry. The failure of one large bank will set off a firestorm, and there are a couple that might be tetering right now, think Citi and WaMu.
Congratulations, Demi, good for you! Hate to say it but you have cause to be worried, but I’m really glad to hear that your company is very green. Presumably you’ll also have benefits. Good for you and good luck to you!
Yeah, Bill Clinton presided over a terrible economy and left the govt bankrupt. I’m sure that Bush 41 and Dole would have done a much better job.
If you think there are no tariffs, look here: http://www.usitc.gov/tata/hts/bychapter/index.htm
I have to wonder exactly what the revenue loss is to municipalities and states from the taxes they fail to collect due to e commerce. It has to be crippling, especially in this era of ever dwindling revenues from property taxes and other sources.
It’s strange and somewhat ironic I think, that a Republican, General Eisenhower should warn us about the relationship between the military and corporate.
We need another Great Compression. I just hope we don’t have to have another Great Depression to get there.
My husband works for a company who sells muni bonds to city and county governments. They are having a very hard time collecting money, the cities just don’t have the money to pay the bills.
President Clinton was decidedly pro-business, DLCish and rather third-wayish.
Sorry, I stepped away.
Was in the kitchen making fresh guacamole….which my boys…, I mean men will enjoy.
I’m so glad you had a nice ride….
(give that Lahoma Girl a hug from me.)
Great post. I particularly like the idea of thinking about what kind of society we want to live in. This is the only thing that finally got through against the mantra of “I don’t want my taxes raised!”, it is against my self interest to vote for Democrats.
Well ok, but once you realize the unsustainability of wars forever that didn’t need to be fought. And you realize you have to pay for that. What do you really want your society to look like. Do you really think it is a good idea to socialize social security and have old people across the country starve to death. This seems like a far fetched thought but it isn’t to me. I don’t want to live in a society with starving elderly and disabled people who likewise are disposable.
Anyway I am rambling but I have been talking about the United States losing its hegemony for a long time now with my family and friends. We are in a situation where we have very little industrial base, and less innovation than we once had. (except in risky financial instruments) We were on the precipice for a long time. So GWB and his no regulation, squander the treasury for cronies, break every law economy has just put the last nail in the coffin of our hegemony.
The President is begging Saudi Arabia to pump more oil. I am sure the world is laughing in his face after he attacked Iraq illegally and caused prices to spike.
So China holds the future of our country in our hands. If their return on their dollar reserves goes low enough will they bail and leave us to fend for ourselves?
That’s right.
That he did and laid the ground work for the current world of crap we’re in, by allowing this bill to become law, which amended the Glass-Steagal Act;
Therein, lies the root of the evil…! 8-(
Lord I long for an FDR.
How can you corrupt a thing that was born in corruption?
Thanks, sweetie.
It’s a call center for the company that made Quickbook and Turbotax. Very online financial.
It’s a new industry for me, but the company does seem to be very green: recycling, social responsibility tag on their website.
We’ll see.
I get to talk to people all day and try to help them with their (financial problems).
It’s an opportunity for Kindness To Strangers.
And, I get a paycheck.
(oh, yeah, btw, it’s in Malibu Canyon. Sorta, totally awesome landscapes when I get there….:)
Obama and Clinton seem to be fighting tooth and nail to win. All I can say to either one, is that whoever wins, you had best produce results. Are you listening senators?
Don’t forget that the draft of his farewell speech read:
military-congressional-industrial complex …
I voted for Clinton one time.
Now I gotta do it again, or the inmates take over the asylum.
what language is this?
good for you, congratulations on your new green job!
Well, that would be giving it away, eh?
Seriously though — move to a new basis of money and turn energy into capital.
and a bunch of other things.