Good evening, Doctor!

What’s up, Doc?

Hi neuro, hi CT.

Thanks to our diligent mods this evening.

ANd lurkers, please come on down.

Another way to introduce ourselves is to describe our “watershed” - what river/lake system(s) carry the water near you?

Waah…! I want a whole new flavor…! 8-(

Seriously, Kirk, you’ve got to learn not to hold back and bind your innards up by keeping your opines to yourself. *g*

A terrific post. Perfect for a Saturday night where we are minorly snowbound and contemplating the time change at 2 a.m.

Somewhere out there is an inventive type who’s right on the brink of coming up with a way to retrofit the internal combustion engine so it’s more fuel efficient than Carlyle Capital is leveraged. If only we could get one of the bazillionaires to invest in him/her.

In this part of the world, we are manufacturing wind turbines, their elegant symmetry against the horizons reminds that good design is not just esthetic sense, it is common sense.

Bad news, the Japanese are sending armed Coast Guard to protect their noble whalers from rogue DFH anti-whaler activists!

Right now I’m deep in the tall timber, about 30 miles from the Mississippi headwaters in Itasca State Park. To get the morning paper, I cross the Crow Wing River, one of many rivers which feed the Mississippi hereabouts and send it coursing down to NOLA.

*waves to any NOLA-folk here tonight*

I cannot believe that anyone in his or her right mind would think that the Republicans are better at environmental issues than are the Democrats. Though on the environment, as to the Democratic Party, there is room for huge improvement as to what to do about planet earth and her well being. For starters, get rid of the DLC.

http://www.youtube.com/results.....rch=Search

here’s a youtube page for the todd snider song, you’ll have to pick one, i’m on dial-up, so, can’t tell ya which one is better.

all i know is, it’s hilarious.

The thing that should be so obvious is that if we don’t keep ecological and environmental care as uppermost, soon nothing else will matter. This is not a difficult concept.

“The Crow Wing River.” What a beautiful name… Downtown Savannah’s bluff overlooks the Savannah River, but in the marshland there are hundreds of smaller streams, some named and some not.

Hey Doc!

I saw that article about how Capt. Watson was shot by a “warning shot.” Especially since the doctor who treated him stated that if he hadn’t been wearing kevlar, it would be the Late Capt. Watson. That sounds like a “Giuliani Time” type of “warning shot.”

oh f—

sorry kirk, i posted in the wrong thread………..although i did read your post, i was coming back after posting in the last thread.

sorry bout that.

OMG, Kirk. This is not a happy post, is it?! Dead whales, and attempts at killing whale lovers, poisonous milk….sheesh.

Here in San Diego, we actually have some fantastic news. Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

And as far as the poo goes, I have a Hillary sticker on my car and came to a stoplight next to someone with an Obama sticker. We smiled at each other and both gave the thumbs up. We are on the same team.

and waves back at ya. When we were little kids my mom used to take us to the levee so we could roll down it. Course, the old Missasip was rollin’ on one side of it. It was the highest thing in NOLA except for Monkey Hill in Audubon Park. The hill was built so kids would know what one was.

The enviro-news at my table (KS) is that the state department of health and environment turned down an application for a massive new power plant in the state. Much of the power would go outside our state. The basis for the denial was the Co2 that the plant would produce, thus affecting global warming. I understand this may have been the first decision of this kind decided on that basis.

The chamber of commerce types have gone nuts over this. They argue the new plant would produce Jobs Jobs Jobs!!! So they have persuaded the legislature to pass a bill that would effectively nullify the power plant denial and would prohibit the state administration from using Co2 as a criterion for such a decision.

Many lobbyists were hired to extract this result from the legislature. The senate passed a bill by a veto-proof margin, but the house decision, while favorable to the chamber of commerce and power plant types, fell several votes short of being veto-proof. The governor has indicated she is seriously considering such a veto, in part because the narrowing of the state department of health and environment’s authority could prevent the state from dealing with future environmental problems.

Whereapon the speaker of the house announced, in effect, that he was going to play Let’s Make a Deal, and attempt to buy more votes for overturning a veto from legislators who voted against the bill by offering them whatever shiny objects they might be seeking on issues unrelated to the power plant bill. You want your health care bill passed? Vote to overturn the power plant veto.

To be continued…

Blackwater can go pollute themselves on some other planet.

Hey dakine01!

Yep - our non-violence training never covered it directly, but a marksman’s shot to the chest is an assassination attmetp to me.

Prarie, thanks for sharing your watershed.

I’m in the SF Bay Watershed, Lobos Creek division.

What other watersheds are here at the Lake tonight?

OMG! When I was a kid we had annual reunions at Itaska. I remember well crossing the river on the rocks! It reminds me of potato salad and cucumbers in vinegar/sugar. What good clean fun! And what beauty.

dmac, no worries - I figured it was a post to the wrong thread.

For almost eight long years Bush has waged war on Mother Nature. Damn him.

The enviro-news at my table (KS) is that the state department of health and environment turned down an application for a massive new power plant in the state. Much of the power would go outside our state.

Fanfreakingtastic, neuro. Hoping for the veto!

btw as regular lurkers may know, I am not a lurker (well, I have been known to lurk, but I do comment fairly often).

I live in the Kansas [Kaw] River valley. The Kaw feeds into the Missouri river about 60 miles east of here. The water closest to me is actually the Shunganunga Creek, which feeds into the Kaw.

All good news.

yea. i read recently that he was allowing the ranchers in Montana and there abouts to start shooting wolves.

Assholes.

And what will President McCain do for global warming?

Today I went to an historic preservation conference. I learned that the greenest building is the one that’s already built. That includes the the energy involved in deconstructing an existing building to put up a new one, the environmental impact of dumping whole buildings into landfill (makes a farce out of recycling bottles & cans), and the new materials used to construct the new building. Furthermore, apparently old materials (stone, brick, wood) are more environmnetally efficient (less processing) than new building materials. So the next time you see an historic building, color it green.

As always, I like to emphasize that science education and science research are required for any long term solutions to these complex problems.

How to have 6 billion people live on this planet without destroying it is not an easy problem to solve. It will take enormous cooperation and hard work.

In the US, there are two primary obstacles. One is corporations looking to maximize near-term profit. They aren’t interested in environmental change that may hurt their business. The second obstacle is a certain strand of religious thought that says Jesus is coming back soon and God is taking care of everything, so there is no need to worry about any of this.

Kirk, you have suddenly gone formal on us!

I’ve always been fascinated by that name choice, Blackwater. Perhaps from a bit of RV experience…

Recent renovations at the park. Douglas Lodge totally updated. New trails for exploring by foot or bike.

Ever climb the fire tower?

Maybe it’s time to come back. The view from here restores the spirit for the challenges we must all gear up for.

Here in San Diego, we actually have some fantastic news. Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

Great news, LooHoo

And we are on the same team - though on this post, I’d love our commenters to avoid even mentioning the two Dem Sens.

[I understand the good interaction you were sharing is the oppostie of poo-fingling, but some of the flingers sem to be operating on reflex. So no criticism inteded of you.]

I have often wondered that about my car. Does getting another car that has a little better gas mileage neutralize the good that does with the harm done to the earth making the new car?

Gaia does her own thing..we shit in our nest..what do we expect? We have probable triggered the sixth great extinction..there have been five others..nature moves on.

Hi demi!

I saw a news report within the last week that a grey wolf had been sighted in Massachusetts for the first time in decades.

Good. Can’t keep a good species down.

You cannot farm-raise whales.

Heh, the Pacific is my water shed, Doc! *g*

I do want to get back, and then visit Bemidji and Blackduck again. I know you can never go back in time, but one can try! I’m so glad that Minnesota is turning blue again. (No fire tower in my memory)

I try to keep up with basic maintenance on my car (oil changes and such) but will keep driving one until the cost of repairs is averaging a car payment per month. which is why I am driving a ‘92 Ford Escort with 120k miles that still gets over 30 MPG.

New cars are probably much worse. I’ll give you another example that they used at the conference, in the hopes there’s an analogy. Apparently it takes more than 30 years to pay back in energy savings for replacing windows with more efficient ones, including the embodied energy in the new windows and the full costs of disposing of the old. And new windows are generally lower quality. I have a personal example, where I replaced some windows in my apt about 5 years ago, and already one is loose on the hinges, whereas the 60 year old windows work fine.

Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

Fabulous news!

Ronald Reagan said trees pollute. George W. Bush says there’s no relationship between CO2 and global warming. Proves one thing. You can be a dummie and at the same time be elected president.

ford focus 2001 here. 75,000 miles

mass transit for me when it goes.

prairie sunshine says– To get the morning paper, I cross the Crow Wing River, one of many rivers which feed the Mississippi hereabouts and send it coursing down to NOLA

============
”and the mississippi’s mighty but it starts in minnesota at a place where you could walk across with five steps down”
-indigo girls-ghost

one of my favorite visuals they ever did.

a lot of mighty things start small, eh?

now back to read the rest of the post.

You cannot farm-raise whales.

Ain’t that the truth! One flick of their tail and the net would be shredded…! We have several large aqua farms, off shore for Ahi, err… Yellow fin tuna…!

Well, Mare, I’m driving a 2000 Bonneville with well over 2,000…
Shall we move on to Kiddo’s property or there abouts and borrow the horsies?

yea. i read recently that he was allowing the ranchers in Montana and there abouts to start shooting wolves.

Assholes.

I think that is still in court..I hope..They basically want most of the wolf packs that people have spent years restoring. When we were driving in Wy a few weeks ago. the GF spotted a wolf about 100 yrds from the road. She was very excited. Didn’t see any wolves in Yellowstone, unfortunately..there had been a recent “fight to the death” by alpha males and the packs had re-organized.

The Thugs also want to remove the Bald Eagle from the “list”. The reason..As one Thug land developer put it, “Eagles don’t pay taxes”.

the little cottage by the creek in the redwoods is located on bear creek, where it joins the san lorenzo river, which flows down the hill, into the city of santa cruz, and into the northern end of monterey bay and the pacific ocean.

I would only caution that the window payback estimate differs based on your geographic location, type of fuel used to heat your home, etc. Those of us in the upper flyover can definitely benefit in lots of situations if a good/high quality replacement is used. No, the payback won’t be 5 years.

But, you shouldn’t be replacing windows first anyway…

The Thugs also want to remove the Bald Eagle from the “list”. The reason..As one Thug land developer put it, “Eagles don’t pay taxes”.

Ugh. More Thug/fundie war on science (coming to a post near the Lake soon). bastards. OTOH, that’s so cool your GF saw a wolf!

We are smothering and slow cooking ourselves. I do wish Obama and Hillary were more green.

Bonne Soir, Suz!

That is a stunning bit of information. At first blush, one would think that better windows would improve energy efficiency to such a degree that they would offset the manufacturing costs. I am just amazed.

Blackwater

I figured they came up with it to sound deadly. Like you couldn’t see what was coming.

I’m in the Beaver Lake watershed in the lovely/charming state of Arkansas. I’m glad you asked, because I wasn’t totally sure. thanks!

eCAHN, those suggestions make perfect sense. (keeping the old buildings and the windows)

Did they mention possibly putting newer (double pane) windows outside the older windows? I thought the new ones were so much more energy efficient. My house was built in 2001, and I almost never use heat, and seldom use AC. My previous house (I loved it) was built in 1948 and was always freezing in the winter. It was built of concrete block, so that may have been the problem, but it got cold going near the windows…

What else did you learn?

Ever go to the Avenue of the Giants?

and Monterey has the most awesome aquarium I’ve ever visited. Still drop by thanks to their website from time to time.

Talking NYC geographically, so in the colder part of the country. And the “payback” period is not just the savings on the heating bill, but also includes the energy that went into making the new windows.

My mechanic told me when I was thinking of buying my hybrid that between manufacturing and dismantling it didn’t turn out as a very green option.

Reagan said “when you’ve seen one Redwood you’ve seen ‘em all”. What do we have? About 10% of old growth left. Thanks Georgia Pacific.

That really makes me happy.

I see that Obama jumped up two points, from 59% to 61% with 100% reporting now in Wyoming!

It’s not just the manufacturing “cost” that’s important, it’s the energy that went into making the windows that must also be offset.

Oh, and I’m in the Edwards Aquifer in Texas which bounces from drought to excess and back to drought.

Blackwater has decided against San diego because it would cost them too much $ to fix the noise issues the enviro impact report said they would have to find a solution for.

Rob, I so agree with your take on this. I’m still puzzled by the cultural shifts that led the Rethugs - the party that created the EPA - to leave thier gentle mainstream Protestantism behind for these millenialist anti-intelelctual whackos.

I knoe it was a pact withthe devil for votes - but I can’t underrstand how the Northeast Republicans (once releiable enviro supporters) just caved to the knuckle-draggers.

_ _ _

ANd neuro - you’re right. I put on my medical hat to discuss enviro issues - caring about cause of disease is a doc thing.

I’ll get informal at 8:00 PM

Have you been to the one at Pier 39 in San Francisco?

and the preznit wants to let corporations cut the remaining ones down.

Our Fargo home is near the Red River of the North…which flows north into Hudson’s Bay. Absolutely flat 20 miles east and west from Fargo-Moorhead because it is also the remnant of prehistoric Lake Agassiz.

We are mindful that global climate change may be measured in some quarters in eons, but events can trigger catastrophe…like the 1997 flooding which virtually destroyed downtown Grand Forks/East Grand Forks to our north, pretty much filling in the old Agassiz lakebed, and produced the iconic photo of the downtown on fire amid the floodwaters.

CT - not here. Not this thread. Capiche?

thats way north of me. i’m in the santa cruz mountains at the northern tip of monterey bay, south of the san francisco bay.

Besides that, the planning commission was recalled or something and new people threw their asses out. It is a conservative little burg, too.

baaawwaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaa!!!!!

Yes, I’m in the energy efficiency business so I know more than I want to about the trade-offs. Fortunately, they’re so costly that people choose to do many other efficiency improvements first that make better sense, both from an efficiency and a sustainability perspective.

My humble apologies…! 8-(

still reading post–got to the whales-

kirk, i heard a report today on whale-speak. they had analyzed it. the structure.

one ’song’ was as intricate as an opus and lasted as long……..blew my mind.

In my eco-neck of the woods, Schwarzenegger wants to close 48 state parks to help cover the $16 billion budget gap, while Republicans insist on keeping open the loopholes that let people avoid the state sales tax they owe on their yachts and private airplanes.

haven’t yet been to that aquarium…ah, another reason to visit my favorite American city.

Later tonight after our company has retired for the evening, Lahoma and I are going to snuggle up in bed upstairs and watch “Medicine Man”. Again.

Goodnight, all you fighters for what is right.

Lahoma and okk

Starting on C-SPAN right now is Professor Lawrence M. Krauss talking about science literacy on issues such as environmental issues and others, so I think this is relevant. The title for the speech today is Science and Anti-Science.

Maybe somebody should get a list of those people and post it on a website with a picture of kids in the parks and ask California what their priorities are?

When I first lived in upstate NY, my congressman was Sherry Boehlert who was supposed to be a Liberal R/environmentalist. Yet he was great friends with Gingrich and voted against his supposed interests in many areas.

It made no sense to me as that district was fairly rural with a lot of hunters and such.

OTOH, that’s so cool your GF saw a wolf!

As a “typical” male, I immediatley called “Bullshit”..but after she described what she saw..she was right. She has an amazing ability to spot wild life..young eyes..I guess…She was very pissed that I didn’t stop on a “blind” curve so she could take a picture.

Isn’t “watershed” a neat concept? It explains so much, so simply (even in LA, where we steal from other watersheds.)

I shuold have defined it: the watershed is the drainage system where the water pooured at our feet drains off to (if we imagine pouring a whole lot o water)

Don’t forget: “A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?” - Reagan in ‘66.

Sleep well, kiddo.

Dayam RZ, I’m gonna have to join the braodband universe - that ousnds interesting.

I’m glad a federal judge here in the Isles followed suit with the Calif. judge that limited the Navy’s use of sonar, considering RimPac is right around the corner…!

Pier 39 is a bathtub, compared with Monterrey Bay Aquarium.

Seriously, there is no place on the planet that I know of that can hold a candle to MBA. Strong science combined with education combined with an absolute passion for the aquatic part of the planet . . . and it’s damn fun, too.

One of the biggest complaint from my six year old since leaving CA is that we moved away from the MBA to Kansas City. “When can we go back?”

Just saw a pro-enviro ad on TV trashing the proposed new power plant and saying the state is a laughingstock for not developing alternatives like wind energy. Didn’t catch the name of the group that paid for it.

Schwarzenegger wants to close 48 state parks

and make cuts in medi-cal, education, etc.etc. I think the pugs know this is their last chance to fuck up the earth get rich.

I know Santa Cruz well. First time I was there my mom took me as a small kid, in 1957. I know the boardwalk and the mountains like my back yard. Used to got to Santa Cruz every year for spring break while I was at Chico State. Remember the Coconut Grove dance hall?

Yeah they recalled 5 of the city council members who approved the plan. It is a red area no question.

The keynote speak at the conference was the person who came up with PlaNYC 2030. His standard dog & pony show was how environmentally friendly it was because of its focus on density and the fact that it calls for planting 1 million trees. Of course, the density plan comes with greatly inadequate public transportation plans. (And radically changes character of neighborhoods, but that’s a different subject.) And he never mentioned that during the Bloomberg Administration, Queens (the city’s “lungs”) has lost almost a quarter of its existing trees owing to development.

The most amazing part of the plan is that the current mayor thinks that future mayors will do things that he never considered doing to make development more intelligent. SOP, I’m afraid.

Fiyero, IIRC the total sum required for the parks to stay open is either eirght or sixteen million - big bucks for us, but nothig for the CA budget. Arnold doens’t care: his familty live in leafy Brentwood and in Malibu: while LA has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) ratio of parkland to city of major US urban areas.

Part of that San francisco aquarium has a moving sidewalk where the ocean is above and to the sides of you. It feels as though you are in the ocean. It’s the coolest aquarium I’ve ever seen.

Peeps are waking up.

Isn’t “watershed” a neat concept? It explains so much

A good example is what the thugs are doing to the watershed in West Virginia..fuckers!!! They are destroying the oldest mountain range on the planet. (or second oldest)

G’night, pups. Time to turn off the inside lights, turn on the outdoor lights and watch the snowflakes trickle down.

sidebar to Peterr: I’ve heard the Henry Doorley [sp?] Zoo in Omaha is awesome. I do so agree with your take on MBA.

That’s it for me. I’m being called on to play poker. Now that’s my kind of fun. Should be able, as I figure it, to win about fifty bucks tonight.

Oh, and I’m in the Edwards Aquifer in Texas which bounces from drought to excess and back to drought.

What he said! I’m at the other end of the Edwards Aquifer. I live a couple blocks away from a beautiful spring fed swimming pool that is verrrry long and very pretty with blue-green water and lots of natural limestone in the heart of Austin. It’s called Barton Springs Pool.

What’s always on the table here is which businesses/developers want to situate themselves in the Aquifer or the Contributing Zone instead of in the Desired Development Zone. There have been many long nights for many of us at City Council with this one. Much land purchased by the city to try to protect the Springs.

There’s a movie been made about the efforts to save the springs called “The Unforseen”, which will be playing in Austin March 28.

moving sidewalk…sounds like the one in the Mall of America. Fun, but still… MBA is in a class–world class–by itself.

My roof is 13 floors above me, so insulating it is not up to me. The new windows also reduce sound (my apt fronts the 53rd St. exit from the FDR drive) and do a better job of keeping the dirt out. So it wasn’t for energy saving alone that I did the job.

In the country I replaced the storm/screens because the old ones were ugly (pitted aluminum vs. painted aluminum) and were a bitch to slide up & down with change of seasons. Other possible insulation, like roof, has been done.

Goodnight, Prarie - thansk for joining us. THe Crow WIng Rver sounds lovely (well, once the snow melts)

Aloha, Prairie and OKK!

One of the best things about the Sacramento area is the trees. The SMUD gives free trees away. We have a river birch and two sycamores. The coordinate with NASA to see where more trees are needed.

Here’s a picture of our Y-shaped bridge:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Y_bridge.jpg

Confluence of the Muskingum and the Licking Rivers.

Kirk, have you been following the rebuilding of the California Academy of Sciences? It’s scheduled to reopen in September.

For those outside of the SF Bay Area, the CAS is a century-old institution that was damaged by the 1989 earthquake. Over time, it had also become very limited by its facility, and rather than cut-and-paste a solution, they decided to rebuild from the ground up — and do so in an incredibly environmentally sensitive manner.

If my kid misses the MBA, I miss the fact that I’ll have to make a huge effort to see the new CAS.

How long since you’ve been? I think Montery is great. I love going to Canary Row also, just prefer San Fran. aquarium.

No kidding. The whole thing just makes me sick. Like so many Californians, I’ve grown up with frequent state and national park outings, Marin Headlands/Yosemite Institute field trips, backpacking and camping all over the state. To mis-quote Ferris Bueller: “A man with his priorities so far out of whack does not deserve to be governor of such a fine state.”

I’ve heard that about Omaha, but haven’t been there.

I have prolly been to the California Academy of Sciences a gazillion times. I lived about eight blocks from there when my kids were small. We went to the arboritum even more. 1974-1982

One last trip to the MBA was one of the last big fun excursions we took before leaving CA last July.

I’ve got a conference in Berkeley this July, so it’s possible we may get back there this summer. If the Kid had his way, I’d just drop him in Monterrey for the duration of my conference, and pick him up at the end of it.

There have been rumors they are about to raise the 20 dollar entrance fee to Yosemite so they develop more within the park of all things.

In a former life I operated acoustic intelligence intercept equipment. While I rarely found any manmade intelligence to “intercept”, I managed to record several hundred hours of incredible whale song. We had some very sophisticated listening devices which could actually process below background noise, which still would seem impossible. Forty years later I can mathematically tell you how it is possible, but I still hard to explain why we can process the sound of a pin dropping from the sounds of a jackhammer running.

They have a fantastic zoo.

Peterr, the CAS is so cool! I can’t wait…saw the venerable old one the week it closed - can’t wait to play in the new one.

Hope you and your son can see both Monterey and this wonder often,

Ditto, here in San Antonio. We constantly have to beat back attempts to build big developments over the Aquifer. Years ago I read in National Geographic that water scarcity was going to be the next crisis and cause of war.

Sounds like a sophisticated and intelligent kid.

True. LA is abysmal. Flying in from Frankfurt to LA was an embarrassment. The Germans coming to America for their first visit were so excited, only to land in a smoggy, paved city with an airport that was about 3rd rate. Wonder why our tourism dollars have dwindled. Besides the fact that the tourists are treated as terrorists once they get to customs…

Wow…some bedside manner, doc.
I know CT lives Far Away, but, you don’t have to yell.
We have technology.

Yep, one of the biggest challenges in the residential and a good chunk of the commercial market (in cities or small towns) is that tenants can only do so much. The building’s main systems (envelope and mechanical) are usually controlled by the landlord, and those are the areas with the best opportunities for energy savings (usually). And if tenants pay the electricity or heating bills, its even harder, because the landlord is even less motivated to make improvements. It becomes a very interesting economic sales pitch–improving quality of investment, differentiating themselves from competitors, etc.

I was at the Monterey Aquarium a couple times when it first opened. I was in heaven. I just loved it.

Mrs. Dr. Peterr worked at UCSF, and on more than one occasion, The Kid and I would go to visit her there for lunch, then mess around on the trails at the SF Arboretum until she got off work in the evening before heading home together.

Great place for urban kids to connect with the world of trees and plants!

Wow, what came over the AEI to host Krauss? He’s preaching that the emperor has no clothes…! ;-)

OT..but..

Democrats Win Back Hastert’s Seat

dkos

Progressive and environmental change is going to happen at the congressional level..Any D president will do. I am now going to the poo corner.

That post was too long for me. Can I use the Cliff Notes ?

So… has Bush called the crew of the Sea Shepherd terrorists yet?

Kirk,

Thanks for the invite to those of us who lurk more than comment.

Here’s my question. When did it become a BAD thing (politically) to care about our environment?
Was it during the Reagan years?

When I was in grade school, jr. hi, high school (1960’s-early 70’s) we talked a lot about Ecology (the buzzword at the time.) It was obvious to all at the time that steps needed to be taken to preserve the environment for future generations.

At some time after that it became a point of contention. Today it seems that the right wingnuts have decided that being pro-environment is a challenge to their ability to make money, therefore needs to be fought at every level. Science is thrown out the window when it hurts profit.

How did this denial of science and acceptance of the destruction of the planet become commonly accepted?

I don’t have a problem with thorough security but it should be directed primarily at people desrving of attention. The Europeans have dealt with terrorism a lot more than we have. They shouildn’t mind.

Kirk, I love your posts.

I live up the side of a mountain, dirt road that climbs past the Mad River - a river that ices over with blue green ice; and flows into the Winooski just a couple miles away. The Winooski River, means Onion River in Abenaki, and it flows north into Lake Champlain.

In this beautiful place we are surrounded by wild folks. I have a big doe and her two half grown young ones, who were out in my back field every day last summer, coming to my compost, now that it’s winter. We have many feet of snow piled up, and with this strange weather, we keep getting a couple of powder, followed by an ice storm. Makes it tough on deer. I went from putting out apple and carrot peels, to buying bags of grain; now the group at the compost has grown from three, a couple times daily, to 7 or 8. I’m carrying out a big soup pot - say 3 gallons of grain - 3 times daily.

And wolves? We have plenty of coyotes around, but a neighbor said there was a huge coyote in the area last summer. I got a look at him one morning out in my back field - either an enormous coyote with a unusually bushy tail, or it was a wolf. They’ve been coming back into our state from Canada.

Car? A 2002 Saturn. I don’t plan to ever buy another vehicle. I’m done.

Whales? I lived on coast of Maine years ago, and spent a lot of time out on fishing boats. Saw so many humpbacks, beautiful animals. Calm and docile and trusting as cows, coming up close to watch us. Incredibly thrilling to see.

Good news here? My congress critter, Peter Welch, leading the charge in opposing the FEd’s ruling that state’s can’t regulate CO2 emissions. VT won a big suit against car companies last fall, we’re not about to let that slip away.

and BTW, “tail to the chief” was hilarious.

i remember th ose days too. There came a time when people who cared about the environment were portrayed as having “gone too far.” I guess that probably coincides with the Reagan years. tose who want to despoil the earth very effectively portrayed caring about the environment as anti-progress and a case of misplaced priorities. Those people cared more about owls than they did about the livelihood of loggers. This was so screwey as to be radical. So environmentalists were portrayed.

Great post, Kirk.

Yeah me too foxman. I grew up in those days too, and I remember telling people I wanted to be an “environmentalist”. Member that? Those were the days of Carter, warning us that tough times were ahead, then Reagan blew in and everyone sneered at anything Carter ever said, and people poufed their hair up and wore bubble dresses and partied like it would never end.

Hi Kirk!

I have to confess that I haven’t even finished reading your post- but I did read the first link. And, haven’t had time to read the comments yet.

HOWEVER, Thank you! I am teaching a Freshman Seminar (college) entitled “Science and the Citizen”, and one of the topics my freshpeople identified as being of major concern to them is global warming.

We have a lively discussion going via a FaceBook site for the class, and I will definitely post the info from this post of yours as part of that discussion. Thanks, Kirk.

OOooo…haven’t thought about that place in years. Used to go as kid about that same timeframe. Moved away years ago but plan to make it home again someday. Thanks for the link Peterr!

Remember the Sec. of Interior (under Rayguns,) James Watt?

from wiki:
Watt’s tenure as Secretary of the Interior was marked by controversy, stemming primarily from his alleged hostility to environmentalism and his support of the development and use of federal lands by foresting, ranching, and other commercial interests.
For over two decades, Watt held the record for protecting the fewest species under the Endangered Species Act in United States history. The record was broken by Dirk Kempthorne, a George W. Bush appointee who, as of August 27, 2007, had not listed a single species in the 15 months since his confirmation. [3]

I had forgetten him!!!! That’s right!!!!
Bald headed fart.

Evening Kirk, Suzanne, Pups.

Best winter EVER in Montréal, we’ve got winds at 35 mph, gusting to 48, a foot of snow on the ground, with another eight inches coming during the night.

I was looking at Protrero CA on Google earth, that little city where Blackwater wanted to train. From what I read in the Mercury News, I’m thinking that they wanted to build to the south of the city. They would have been a stone throw from the Mexican border. Chopper pad was going to be part of the package. I wonder what they wanted to “import” from Mexico???

http://www.mercurynews.com//ci.....rynews.com

Kirk’s having some trouble getting his comments to submit but asked that I pass along this:

foxman, welcome! I love your question - esp as I don’t know the answer. Under Reagan, Watt made anti-enviro spite “cool” - part of the Rethug brand (Sagebrush Rebellion and all).. This was/is a direct payoff to Oil/Gas?Fogging/Mining/ Welfare Ranching, and the corporate media were happy to amplify the message.

And while I’m at it, let me also extend my own warm welcome.

Now that is good news.

The Kevlar vest and anti-poaching badge effectively saved Captain Watson’s life.

Good work Sea Shepherd!

Bald headed fart.

way too kind description of the neanderthal cretin with a tall forehead.

May I repond to the slodge issue?

It’s worth noting that Chimpy’s first Secretary of the Interior was Watt protégé Gail “I hate those flippin’ trees” Norton.

Thanks RBG and Kirk!
I really would like to know how being good caretakers of our planet became a bad thing.
So much shortsighted thinking, it’s tragic.

Wastewater Industry Council lobbies for the Big Pipe sewer industry that produces “Biosolids” by the mega ton.

Modern sewage plants do not treat sewage they separate solids from liquids at an extremely high energy cost. 1 million gallons can cost 7,000 ton carbon footprints worth of energy a year.
The industry has to get rid of solids in a shrinking land application or land fill opportunity.

New sustainable systems that are far less capital intensive with much lower engineering requiremnets are less profitable to the big sewer engineering companies.
It’s the same o shit a different day for them while the rate payers and the environment get skinned.

Biological systems given time will consume the neutrients and leave reusable water that help stretch our increasinly limited water supply. And it will cost 1/3 of what we pay now. The energy used in the above example is 1 million kilowatts.

Question why isn’t the ratepayers demanding the cheapest and most enviromentally protective solutions to Wastewater? This is nation wide and the spills from these 24 in 24 systems regularly pollute our environment.

Wow, what came over the AEI to host Krauss? He’s preaching that the emperor has no clothes

Heh heh. He’s really hitting them hard. This is cool. He specifically chose topics to rile conservatives. Abstinence only education, evolution, missile defense.

This repeats later tonight on C-SPAN at 12:50 AM EST. I highly recommend it.

nonplussed at 116

yes! i just wrote a response to you, but it got wiped out…….

basically, the sound guy was excited after analyzing it, that it was so intricate, went on for 20 minutes or so…..

and kirk/mod–i went to enter a comment and wordpress told me to slow down on the comments, and wouldn’t take it, then, went back to last screen, it hung up my safari and i lost what i wrote…….it said you are posting comments too quickly, slow down, but i’ve hardly entered any at all, what’s up with that?

has been going on for over a half hour……….

and funny thing, went to send an email to the moderator, cuz i can’t send comment, and my email isn’t working……ends up it’s a problem in the system and they’re glad i called…….

so, couldn’t send comment to fdl, and couldn’t send email to fdl about it…….maybe i’m not supposed to comment here anymore.

Phreakin spooky.

I’m dialed in to WAMU, online.

bluegrasscountry.org

The show is Mountain Stage.

The artist and song I just heard at 7:45pm are Todd Snider, and Christian Conservative.

The good news is, Lucy Kaplansky is up next (Cry, Cry, Cry was awesome trio).

Hope all are groovin to THEIR preferred beats per minute.

Me, this Larue likes his acoustic, fast and slow, and with a squareneck. *G*

I did not know that. But wiki says:

Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy (CREA) was founded by Interior Secretary Gale Norton and Grover Norquist in the 1990’s. Jack Abramoff directed his tribal casinos to donate $225,000 to CREA.

Grover, Jack and Gail. What a team!

I had the exact same problem. Tried submitting about ten times but kept getting the “your posting too quickly” message, which was not accurate.

Krauss is even speaking to the arts and creativity in the sciences, nice.

The tech crew is being unindated with trouble reports here at the lake and asks that ya’ll hold off on sending email saying there is a problem.

They are working on it. There appears to be a glitch with the ‘you are submitting comments too fast’ loop - some can comment and others can not. We have not been able to identify it as a problem specific to one type of operating systems - it is hitting both macs and pc.

forgot to end my comment with a * g *

I’m having same problem. Even tried rebooting, to no avail.

Ha! Finally worked.

I was recently watching Who Killed the Electric Car, and in addition to the many “guilty” parties (big oil, big auto, federal government, California Air Resources Board, ignorant consumers, etc…), there is a recurring thematic thread that points back to the paradigms of the Reagan years–with the utter worship of the “magic” of the corporate (and government subsidized) marketplace–as being wholly antagonistic to the idea of regulation, long-term sustainability, environmentalism. It is a false choice, for one thing, but Reagan frames it to his advantage and the PR campaign to “get government off our backs” coupled with “it’s morning in America” wins the day as profoundly as it is grossly misleading. Carter’s WH solar panels come down immediately; CAFE standards hit a stagnant plateau which persists to this day. We get arguments like “Trees pollute more than automobiles…” etc…

Just part of the answer, to be sure.

Has anyone seen the History Channel DVD “The Year That Changed Everything: 1968″? It is so true!

test

is this thing on?

Hard to get excited by that. Foster “beat” Blue America candidate John Laesch by less than 1% just recently, and I can only imagine how much John would’ve won by tonight. I remember Howie wanting to only focus on the “better” part of “more and better Dems,” and a Foster win doesn’t help that cause, although in place of Hastert is somewhat satisfying.

Better and Better Dems and Environment!

Hmmm. I could not post on Firefox. Now I can post on Internet Explorer.

Usually, whenever I have a technical problem, I’m on Internet Explorer.

Not this time.

And I thought Kirk was mad at me cuz I thought it was wonderful that an enviro-friendly dem won Hastert’s seat. All’s well at the Lake.

Hooray for the techies and mods!

Hi pups:

1) Apologies to all who are trying to post but can’t (especaiily to our lurkers). I am havinghte same problem - I have to close/restart my browswer between every comment. Our excellent mod squad is aware.

When commenting is easier, I look forward to addressing any comments I cold not address tonight.

2) Thanks to all who came together to focus on our common goals and concerns tonight. I’m looking forward to many more productive discussions under the same ground rules from now through Novemeber!

3) Thanks to our mods for keeping our meeting place open for your productive comments this evening.

I’m teaching a class tomorrow from 10 - 5 called “Heaven On Earth: Tuning Our Hearts To Our Sacred Holy Planet” The intention is to open to the light of the divine within us. We’ll use ancient Sufi teachings and practises to deeply nourish ourselves and explore the connection between our own hearts and the heart of our world. We’ll learn to powerfully sustain ourselves as we heal our planet.

All is well, LooHoo - and we’re good!

Kirk, you laid out stringent plot of purpose.

It was exclusive, and exclusionary in its nature.

That’s not a progressive’s modus operendi.

Ergo.

larue at 151-

–sometime go to furpeaceranch.com

it’s jorma kaukonen’s place, he was in jefferson airplane and hot tuna, but now is into blues…..he has a guitar camp here, fur peace ranch, and a weekly concert radio show, live at the fur peace ranch and concert hall, called fur peace station…all kinds of people play there, and it’s all about guitars, babay..and there is some music on the site…..

wasn’t that todd snider song a crack-up?

do you know about wolfgang’s vault? go there, too, if you want to be blown away…….i’ve been telling people about it for a long time now, a musician friend told me about it. get on their mailing list.

home sick with a cold but have to delurk for watersheds. I love that Minnesota contains three major watersheds: the Red River of the north ultimately drains into Hudson Bay; the small rivers along Lake Superior head to the Atlantic via the Great Lakes and the St Lawrence River; and last but not least, the mighty Mississippi drains to the Gulf of Mexico.

I am vigorously against lawn chemicals of any kind and gas-powered mowers. Turn yards into veggie gardens and native-plant prairie.

bigbrother, thanks for educatiing us about the sewage sludge.

New post upstairs (and very grumpy kitties here - dad, quit ignoring us!) I’m gonna slip into the non-formal mode and wnade roff, but will be back later.

Be excellent to each other, folks!

ANd please be excellent to our ground rule for this thread - it let all who wished find a place here

(except for those blocked b y the comment glitch - once again, apologies)

dmac, I’m hip to all you offer, aint it grand!!!

I’m a big bluegrasser, americana and singer/songwriter fan.

New grass, is my friend. **G

KPIG.com is all americana . . . good stuff.

Best to ya hoss, if you pick, do one in a minor and model vein for me.
I’m partial to Tony Rice in B, doin Lil Sadie. ;-) Course, Doc Watson’s take was my FIRST love of that song . . *G*

oh, and larue, that’s why i posted it, i originally commented about mountain stage…….is big here in se ohio….they’re recording the show here monday…….

obZuber March 8th, 2008 at 7:54 pm 153
In response to dmac @ 150
I had the exact same problem. Tried submitting about ten times but kept getting the “your posting too quickly” message, which was not accurate.

Same for me…thinking I got 86′d I went to Ians thread and was able to comment. What’s up?

So I save my comment by left click then select all and copy…if long time I save as a word doc for repost

Hope you get there and you break a leg with all of them.

Mavis Staples, on now. What a treasure Pops and the family have been.

Right up there with the Pete Seegar’s, Jean Ritchie’s and others who have kept alive the old traditional music, and the political and social change music, for so many decades. Bless them all. I’m outta here, I need to talk change, and politics, not status quo (yer not status, or quo, IMHO). ;-)

yes, Corporatism vs Environmentalism.

guess who wins…

hey larue–i’m a girl, but girls can do a good ’hoss’………….

bluegrass is huge here……..have you heard of the rarely herd? they’re from here……..winners of bluegrass assoc guitar of the year singer, group, etc…….they hosted one year, too.

a friend gave me a mandolin a year or so ago, but haven’t gotten it out much, it’s hard to get the hang of it.

have you heard of del ray? she plays led zeppelin’s when the levee breaks, it’s killer….that’s the name of the cd it’s on, too…she was one of my favorite people at fur peace. she can play the hell out of a guitar. the guys bow to her mastery…..

make sure to check out wolfgang’s vault, larue, you will go nuts.

Notice Earth Hour:
On March 29, 2008, we’re asking you–and millions of others–to switch off the lights for one hour during Earth Hour.

What is Earth Hour?
Earth Hour is a global event created to symbolize that each of us, working together, can make a positive impact on climate change–no matter who we are or where we live. Starting at 8 pm local time on March 29, 2008, individuals, communities and businesses will “turn off the lights” in cities around the world for one hour. This simple act will not only heighten awareness of the impacts of climate change on our world, but also inspire individuals and businesses to take practical action to reduce their own carbon footprint.

LooHoo@14 - This is GREAT news. I had been following this but it seemed to drop off my feedreader radar. I couldn’t imagine having a NeoconKrishtianRhat mini God’s army training in beautiful San Diego’s back yard.

I’m a little late in posting, since I just woke up here in Paris, but I appreciate the invite to delurk. This is my number one political blog to read, and it is Firedoglake’s coverage of the Libby trial that was the straw that broke my particular camel’s back, and empowered me to start blogging. I’d been a-political for most of my life, having been raised in a right-wing extremist household. If I asked questions or disagreed, I’d be shouted down. It was safer to STFU. But…no longer. I started to get really angry with The Junior Bush, so I started to educate myself, which of course, made me angrier. I HAD to start blogging, or I would explode.

I am continuously astonished at not only the caliber of writing on this blog, but the incredible intelligence and insight of the community. Reading a single post is often only the tip of the iceberg. The comments go deep and long, and educate me even further, and I try and read every one. I have yet to go back and read all the comments on this post, but I will.

I found this post compelling, because of its ban on Dem blahblahing, for which I am grateful. I was tired of this campaign when it started back in ought 07. :-) Meanwhile…our environment…this is a subject I don’t post on in my own blog, or haven’t yet. I think I believe that the core responsibility for environmental destruction lies in the corporate and industrial and war complexes. Unobstructed corporate greed and arrogance is the cause and basis of this destruction. And unobstructed is a tame word…it implies that there is little oversight and a dearth of legislation and control, which is true. But it’s worse than that…governments and leaders worldwide aren’t just turning a blind eye, tacitly allowing this to happen. No…they are openly and blatantly supporting and funding corporate globalization of environmental destruction.

I don’t know how to stop the corporate blob that’s covering our planet. It’s a Republican problem, yes. But the not-to-be-mentioned also have their pockets full with corporate shit-flavored money (just keeping on topic here).

Anyway - thanks for being here FDL and I’m happy to be a lurky-loo in such esteemed company.

Bonjours, omyword - thank you for joining us, and for your very kind comments about the article.

I sure agree with you about the core of responsibility for eco-destruction…and glad you enjoyed the campaign-free zone. I also like reading the (other) writers and commenters here - they teach me a lot.

(can’t imagie why the Powers keep letting me dirty the place up…)

watershed: Boise River

eco-news in my neck of the woods:

livestock industry kills :

880 of yellowstone’s last native buffalo so far … rounding up more every day ~

wolves, wolves, wolves and more wolves

bighorn sheep

188 animals per hour (24 mammals/hour) (pdf)

watersheds all over the west…

cowboys’ war on wildlife ~ on public land

the past 7 years has been hell on the west ~ DON’t let it happen again…

be

watershed–South shore of Lake Superior–Upper Peninsula of Michigan. One of the lovelier spots in the lower 48. Is having a sulfide mine shoved down its’ throat by the state DNR and DEQ. Mine owned by Rio Tinto, one of the most egregious polluters on planet Earth. Hopefully many lawsuits will keep putting off start-up date. Maybe someday everything won’t be all about the money.
I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one…

Upcoaster

begreen and upcoaster: welcome to the Lake. Thank you both for letting us know what’s happening in your bioregions.

begreen, thanks also for spreading the word about the welfare ranchers’ war on the wild. some good friends of mine have served the Buffalo Field Campaign: good on ‘ya for getting the word out.

upcoaster, I really hope the lawsuits stop another Rio Tinto nightmare: far too many around the planet already.