Good evening, Doctor!

What’s up, Doc?

Hi neuro, hi CT.

Thanks to our diligent mods this evening.

ANd lurkers, please come on down.

Another way to introduce ourselves is to describe our “watershed” - what river/lake system(s) carry the water near you?

Waah…! I want a whole new flavor…! 8-(

Seriously, Kirk, you’ve got to learn not to hold back and bind your innards up by keeping your opines to yourself. *g*

A terrific post. Perfect for a Saturday night where we are minorly snowbound and contemplating the time change at 2 a.m.

Somewhere out there is an inventive type who’s right on the brink of coming up with a way to retrofit the internal combustion engine so it’s more fuel efficient than Carlyle Capital is leveraged. If only we could get one of the bazillionaires to invest in him/her.

In this part of the world, we are manufacturing wind turbines, their elegant symmetry against the horizons reminds that good design is not just esthetic sense, it is common sense.

Bad news, the Japanese are sending armed Coast Guard to protect their noble whalers from rogue DFH anti-whaler activists!

Right now I’m deep in the tall timber, about 30 miles from the Mississippi headwaters in Itasca State Park. To get the morning paper, I cross the Crow Wing River, one of many rivers which feed the Mississippi hereabouts and send it coursing down to NOLA.

*waves to any NOLA-folk here tonight*

I cannot believe that anyone in his or her right mind would think that the Republicans are better at environmental issues than are the Democrats. Though on the environment, as to the Democratic Party, there is room for huge improvement as to what to do about planet earth and her well being. For starters, get rid of the DLC.

http://www.youtube.com/results.....rch=Search

here’s a youtube page for the todd snider song, you’ll have to pick one, i’m on dial-up, so, can’t tell ya which one is better.

all i know is, it’s hilarious.

The thing that should be so obvious is that if we don’t keep ecological and environmental care as uppermost, soon nothing else will matter. This is not a difficult concept.

“The Crow Wing River.” What a beautiful name… Downtown Savannah’s bluff overlooks the Savannah River, but in the marshland there are hundreds of smaller streams, some named and some not.

Hey Doc!

I saw that article about how Capt. Watson was shot by a “warning shot.” Especially since the doctor who treated him stated that if he hadn’t been wearing kevlar, it would be the Late Capt. Watson. That sounds like a “Giuliani Time” type of “warning shot.”

oh f—

sorry kirk, i posted in the wrong thread………..although i did read your post, i was coming back after posting in the last thread.

sorry bout that.

OMG, Kirk. This is not a happy post, is it?! Dead whales, and attempts at killing whale lovers, poisonous milk….sheesh.

Here in San Diego, we actually have some fantastic news. Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

And as far as the poo goes, I have a Hillary sticker on my car and came to a stoplight next to someone with an Obama sticker. We smiled at each other and both gave the thumbs up. We are on the same team.

and waves back at ya. When we were little kids my mom used to take us to the levee so we could roll down it. Course, the old Missasip was rollin’ on one side of it. It was the highest thing in NOLA except for Monkey Hill in Audubon Park. The hill was built so kids would know what one was.

The enviro-news at my table (KS) is that the state department of health and environment turned down an application for a massive new power plant in the state. Much of the power would go outside our state. The basis for the denial was the Co2 that the plant would produce, thus affecting global warming. I understand this may have been the first decision of this kind decided on that basis.

The chamber of commerce types have gone nuts over this. They argue the new plant would produce Jobs Jobs Jobs!!! So they have persuaded the legislature to pass a bill that would effectively nullify the power plant denial and would prohibit the state administration from using Co2 as a criterion for such a decision.

Many lobbyists were hired to extract this result from the legislature. The senate passed a bill by a veto-proof margin, but the house decision, while favorable to the chamber of commerce and power plant types, fell several votes short of being veto-proof. The governor has indicated she is seriously considering such a veto, in part because the narrowing of the state department of health and environment’s authority could prevent the state from dealing with future environmental problems.

Whereapon the speaker of the house announced, in effect, that he was going to play Let’s Make a Deal, and attempt to buy more votes for overturning a veto from legislators who voted against the bill by offering them whatever shiny objects they might be seeking on issues unrelated to the power plant bill. You want your health care bill passed? Vote to overturn the power plant veto.

To be continued…

Blackwater can go pollute themselves on some other planet.

Hey dakine01!

Yep - our non-violence training never covered it directly, but a marksman’s shot to the chest is an assassination attmetp to me.

Prarie, thanks for sharing your watershed.

I’m in the SF Bay Watershed, Lobos Creek division.

What other watersheds are here at the Lake tonight?

OMG! When I was a kid we had annual reunions at Itaska. I remember well crossing the river on the rocks! It reminds me of potato salad and cucumbers in vinegar/sugar. What good clean fun! And what beauty.

dmac, no worries - I figured it was a post to the wrong thread.

For almost eight long years Bush has waged war on Mother Nature. Damn him.

The enviro-news at my table (KS) is that the state department of health and environment turned down an application for a massive new power plant in the state. Much of the power would go outside our state.

Fanfreakingtastic, neuro. Hoping for the veto!

btw as regular lurkers may know, I am not a lurker (well, I have been known to lurk, but I do comment fairly often).

I live in the Kansas [Kaw] River valley. The Kaw feeds into the Missouri river about 60 miles east of here. The water closest to me is actually the Shunganunga Creek, which feeds into the Kaw.

All good news.

yea. i read recently that he was allowing the ranchers in Montana and there abouts to start shooting wolves.

Assholes.

And what will President McCain do for global warming?

Today I went to an historic preservation conference. I learned that the greenest building is the one that’s already built. That includes the the energy involved in deconstructing an existing building to put up a new one, the environmental impact of dumping whole buildings into landfill (makes a farce out of recycling bottles & cans), and the new materials used to construct the new building. Furthermore, apparently old materials (stone, brick, wood) are more environmnetally efficient (less processing) than new building materials. So the next time you see an historic building, color it green.

As always, I like to emphasize that science education and science research are required for any long term solutions to these complex problems.

How to have 6 billion people live on this planet without destroying it is not an easy problem to solve. It will take enormous cooperation and hard work.

In the US, there are two primary obstacles. One is corporations looking to maximize near-term profit. They aren’t interested in environmental change that may hurt their business. The second obstacle is a certain strand of religious thought that says Jesus is coming back soon and God is taking care of everything, so there is no need to worry about any of this.

Kirk, you have suddenly gone formal on us!

I’ve always been fascinated by that name choice, Blackwater. Perhaps from a bit of RV experience…

Recent renovations at the park. Douglas Lodge totally updated. New trails for exploring by foot or bike.

Ever climb the fire tower?

Maybe it’s time to come back. The view from here restores the spirit for the challenges we must all gear up for.

Here in San Diego, we actually have some fantastic news. Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

Great news, LooHoo

And we are on the same team - though on this post, I’d love our commenters to avoid even mentioning the two Dem Sens.

[I understand the good interaction you were sharing is the oppostie of poo-fingling, but some of the flingers sem to be operating on reflex. So no criticism inteded of you.]

I have often wondered that about my car. Does getting another car that has a little better gas mileage neutralize the good that does with the harm done to the earth making the new car?

Gaia does her own thing..we shit in our nest..what do we expect? We have probable triggered the sixth great extinction..there have been five others..nature moves on.

Hi demi!

I saw a news report within the last week that a grey wolf had been sighted in Massachusetts for the first time in decades.

Good. Can’t keep a good species down.

You cannot farm-raise whales.

Heh, the Pacific is my water shed, Doc! *g*

I do want to get back, and then visit Bemidji and Blackduck again. I know you can never go back in time, but one can try! I’m so glad that Minnesota is turning blue again. (No fire tower in my memory)

I try to keep up with basic maintenance on my car (oil changes and such) but will keep driving one until the cost of repairs is averaging a car payment per month. which is why I am driving a ‘92 Ford Escort with 120k miles that still gets over 30 MPG.

New cars are probably much worse. I’ll give you another example that they used at the conference, in the hopes there’s an analogy. Apparently it takes more than 30 years to pay back in energy savings for replacing windows with more efficient ones, including the embodied energy in the new windows and the full costs of disposing of the old. And new windows are generally lower quality. I have a personal example, where I replaced some windows in my apt about 5 years ago, and already one is loose on the hinges, whereas the 60 year old windows work fine.

Blackwater has given up the idea of building an training facility here.

Fabulous news!

Ronald Reagan said trees pollute. George W. Bush says there’s no relationship between CO2 and global warming. Proves one thing. You can be a dummie and at the same time be elected president.

ford focus 2001 here. 75,000 miles

mass transit for me when it goes.

prairie sunshine says– To get the morning paper, I cross the Crow Wing River, one of many rivers which feed the Mississippi hereabouts and send it coursing down to NOLA

============
”and the mississippi’s mighty but it starts in minnesota at a place where you could walk across with five steps down”
-indigo girls-ghost

one of my favorite visuals they ever did.

a lot of mighty things start small, eh?

now back to read the rest of the post.

You cannot farm-raise whales.

Ain’t that the truth! One flick of their tail and the net would be shredded…! We have several large aqua farms, off shore for Ahi, err… Yellow fin tuna…!

Well, Mare, I’m driving a 2000 Bonneville with well over 2,000…
Shall we move on to Kiddo’s property or there abouts and borrow the horsies?

yea. i read recently that he was allowing the ranchers in Montana and there abouts to start shooting wolves.

Assholes.

I think that is still in court..I hope..They basically want most of the wolf packs that people have spent years restoring. When we were driving in Wy a few weeks ago. the GF spotted a wolf about 100 yrds from the road. She was very excited. Didn’t see any wolves in Yellowstone, unfortunately..there had been a recent “fight to the death” by alpha males and the packs had re-organized.

The Thugs also want to remove the Bald Eagle from the “list”. The reason..As one Thug land developer put it, “Eagles don’t pay taxes”.

the little cottage by the creek in the redwoods is located on bear creek, where it joins the san lorenzo river, which flows down the hill, into the city of santa cruz, and into the northern end of monterey bay and the pacific ocean.

I would only caution that the window payback estimate differs based on your geographic location, type of fuel used to heat your home, etc. Those of us in the upper flyover can definitely benefit in lots of situations if a good/high quality replacement is used. No, the payback won’t be 5 years.

But, you shouldn’t be replacing windows first anyway…

The Thugs also want to remove the Bald Eagle from the “list”. The reason..As one Thug land developer put it, “Eagles don’t pay taxes”.

Ugh. More Thug/fundie war on science (coming to a post near the Lake soon). bastards. OTOH, that’s so cool your GF saw a wolf!

We are smothering and slow cooking ourselves. I do wish Obama and Hillary were more green.

Bonne Soir, Suz!

That is a stunning bit of information. At first blush, one would think that better windows would improve energy efficiency to such a degree that they would offset the manufacturing costs. I am just amazed.

Blackwater

I figured they came up with it to sound deadly. Like you couldn’t see what was coming.

I’m in the Beaver Lake watershed in the lovely/charming state of Arkansas. I’m glad you asked, because I wasn’t totally sure. thanks!

eCAHN, those suggestions make perfect sense. (keeping the old buildings and the windows)

Did they mention possibly putting newer (double pane) windows outside the older windows? I thought the new ones were so much more energy efficient. My house was built in 2001, and I almost never use heat, and seldom use AC. My previous house (I loved it) was built in 1948 and was always freezing in the winter. It was built of concrete block, so that may have been the problem, but it got cold going near the windows…

What else did you learn?

Ever go to the Avenue of the Giants?

and Monterey has the most awesome aquarium I’ve ever visited. Still drop by thanks to their website from time to time.

Talking NYC geographically, so in the colder part of the country. And the “payback” period is not just the savings on the heating bill, but also includes the energy that went into making the new windows.

My mechanic told me when I was thinking of buying my hybrid that between manufacturing and dismantling it didn’t turn out as a very green option.

Reagan said “when you’ve seen one Redwood you’ve seen ‘em all”. What do we have? About 10% of old growth left. Thanks Georgia Pacific.

That really makes me happy.

I see that Obama jumped up two points, from 59% to 61% with 100% reporting now in Wyoming!

It’s not just the manufacturing “cost” that’s important, it’s the energy that went into making the windows that must also be offset.

Oh, and I’m in the Edwards Aquifer in Texas which bounces from drought to excess and back to drought.

Blackwater has decided against San diego because it would cost them too much $ to fix the noise issues the enviro impact report said they would have to find a solution for.

Rob, I so agree with your take on this. I’m still puzzled by the cultural shifts that led the Rethugs - the party that created the EPA - to leave thier gentle mainstream Protestantism behind for these millenialist anti-intelelctual whackos.

I knoe it was a pact withthe devil for votes - but I can’t underrstand how the Northeast Republicans (once releiable enviro supporters) just caved to the knuckle-draggers.

_ _ _

ANd neuro - you’re right. I put on my medical hat to discuss enviro issues - caring about cause of disease is a doc thing.

I’ll get informal at 8:00 PM

Have you been to the one at Pier 39 in San Francisco?

and the preznit wants to let corporations cut the remaining ones down.

Our Fargo home is near the Red River of the North…which flows north into Hudson’s Bay. Absolutely flat 20 miles east and west from Fargo-Moorhead because it is also the remnant of prehistoric Lake Agassiz.

We are mindful that global climate change may be measured in some quarters in eons, but events can trigger catastrophe…like the 1997 flooding which virtually destroyed downtown Grand Forks/East Grand Forks to our north, pretty much filling in the old Agassiz lakebed, and produced the iconic photo of the downtown on fire amid the floodwaters.

CT - not here. Not this thread. Capiche?

thats way north of me. i’m in the santa cruz mountains at the northern tip of monterey bay, south of the san francisco bay.

Besides that, the planning commission was recalled or something and new people threw their asses out. It is a conservative little burg, too.

baaawwaaaahaaaahaaaahaaaa!!!!!

Yes, I’m in the energy efficiency business so I know more than I want to about the trade-offs. Fortunately, they’re so costly that people choose to do many other efficiency improvements first that make better sense, both from an efficiency and a sustainability perspective.

My humble apologies…! 8-(

still reading post–got to the whales-

kirk, i heard a report today on whale-speak. they had analyzed it. the structure.

one ’song’ was as intricate as an opus and lasted as long……..blew my mind.

In my eco-neck of the woods, Schwarzenegger wants to close 48 state parks to help cover the $16 billion budget gap, while Republicans insist on keeping open the loopholes that let people avoid the state sales tax they owe on their yachts and private airplanes.

haven’t yet been to that aquarium…ah, another reason to visit my favorite American city.

Later tonight after our company has retired for the evening, Lahoma and I are going to snuggle up in bed upstairs and watch “Medicine Man”. Again.

Goodnight, all you fighters for what is right.

Lahoma and okk

Starting on C-SPAN right now is Professor Lawrence M. Krauss talking about science literacy on issues such as environmental issues and others, so I think this is relevant. The title for the speech today is Science and Anti-Science.

Maybe somebody should get a list of those people and post it on a website with a picture of kids in the parks and ask California what their priorities are?

When I first lived in upstate NY, my congressman was Sherry Boehlert who was supposed to be a Liberal R/environmentalist. Yet he was great friends with Gingrich and voted against his supposed interests in many areas.

It made no sense to me as that district was fairly rural with a lot of hunters and such.

OTOH, that’s so cool your GF saw a wolf!

As a “typical” male, I immediatley called “Bullshit”..but after she described what she saw..she was right. She has an amazing ability to spot wild life..young eyes..I guess…She was very pissed that I didn’t stop on a “blind” curve so she could take a picture.

Isn’t “watershed” a neat concept? It explains so much, so simply (even in LA, where we steal from other watersheds.)

I shuold have defined it: the watershed is the drainage system where the water pooured at our feet drains off to (if we imagine pouring a whole lot o water)

Don’t forget: “A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?” - Reagan in ‘66.

Sleep well, kiddo.

Dayam RZ, I’m gonna have to join the braodband universe - that ousnds interesting.

I’m glad a federal judge here in the Isles followed suit with the Calif. judge that limited the Navy’s use of sonar, considering RimPac is right around the corner…!

Pier 39 is a bathtub, compared with Monterrey Bay Aquarium.

Seriously, there is no place on the planet that I know of that can hold a candle to MBA. Strong science combined with education combined with an absolute passion for the aquatic part of the planet . . . and it’s damn fun, too.

One of the biggest complaint from my six year old since leaving CA is that we moved away from the MBA to Kansas City. “When can we go back?”

Just saw a pro-enviro ad on TV trashing the proposed new power plant and saying the state is a laughingstock for not developing alternatives like wind energy. Didn’t catch the name of the group that paid for it.

Schwarzenegger wants to close 48 state parks

and make cuts in medi-cal, education, etc.etc. I think the pugs know this is their last chance to fuck up the earth get rich.

I know Santa Cruz well. First time I was there my mom took me as a small kid, in 1957. I know the boardwalk and the mountains like my back yard. Used to got to Santa Cruz every year for spring break while I was at Chico State. Remember the Coconut Grove dance hall?

Yeah they recalled 5 of the city council members who approved the plan. It is a red area no question.

The keynote speak at the conference was the person who came up with PlaNYC 2030. His standard dog & pony show was how environmentally friendly it was because of its focus on density and the fact that it calls for planting 1 million trees. Of course, the density plan comes with greatly inadequate public transportation plans. (And radically changes character of neighborhoods, but that’s a different subject.) And he never mentioned that during the Bloomberg Administration, Queens (the city’s “lungs”) has lost almost a quarter of its existing trees owing to development.

The most amazing part of the plan is that the current mayor thinks that future mayors will do things that he never considered doing to make development more intelligent. SOP, I’m afraid.

Fiyero, IIRC the total sum required for the parks to stay open is either eirght or sixteen million - big bucks for us, but nothig for the CA budget. Arnold doens’t care: his familty live in leafy Brentwood and in Malibu: while LA has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) ratio of parkland to city of major US urban areas.

Part of that San francisco aquarium has a moving sidewalk where the ocean is above and to the sides of you. It feels as though you are in the ocean. It’