Tens of thousands of Obama supporters feel as you do. Tens of thousand of Clinton supporters feel the same way in reverse. Just as you won’t vote for Clinton, they won’t vote for Obama.

In the general election Clinton will probably lose to McCain because she won’t hold Obama supporters. Obama will probably lose to McCain because he won’t hold Clinton supporters.

Despite whatever virtues either candidate does or does not have, both candidacies now virge on being fatally flawed. If you feel that you would rather be right than have a democrat win, you’re entitled to your view. My guess is that you will probably get your wish.

You can’t have democracy in a two-party system in which the leadership of both parties dedicates itself to the no-holds-barred manipulation and perversion of the electoral process, whether vote suppression or legal challenges to every electoral process that results in a loss for your candidate. Hilary Clinton’s tactics in this election are undemocratic in the extreme. If she loses a caucus, she challenges the legitimacy of caucuses. If the party asks candidates not to contest Florida and Michigan, she throws a “victory” party after “winning” Florida, and claims the delegates from Michigan even though her name was the only one on the ballot. “Victories” like that used to happen only behind the Iron Curtain. If a state decides to make caucuses more convenient for some Democratic voters, she backs lawsuits when she suspects the result may be a greater proportion of votes for an opponent. If she loses the battle for delegates elected by ordinary voters in primaries, she argues that it is the duty of superdelegates to overturn the judgment of those voters. To Hilary, democracy has only one meaning–Hilary must win; no other result is an acceptable outcome of the electoral process.

Hilary’s campaign staff has shown itself to be every bit as deceptive, ruthless and sleazy as Karl Rove and company. Having two parties that operate the way Rove and Hilary operate will destroy the few vestiges of democracy that have survived 8 years of assault by Bush and Rove. It would be better for this country to have McCain, Ron Paul, or anybody else than to have Hilary in the White House and the Democratic Party in her hands.

I was not opposed to Hilary just two months ago. In fact, I was undecided between Hilary and Obama. I could have happily supported either. It is Hilary’s campaign that has rendered her utterly unacceptable to me under any circumstances against any candidate. Can anybody here really imagine enduring eight years of Howard Wolfson, Harold Ickes, and the legions of disciplined liars and character assassins that Hilary dispatches daily to destroy Obama, simply because he happens to be the last obstacle between her and preeminent power? Can anybody really see a difference between that gang of political operatives and Rove, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, etc.? Everything about Hilary’s campaign indicates she and her minions can be counted on to abuse all the power she can grab.

This isn’t about race, gender or age. I’m a 60+ white guy, a lifelong Democrat. I could support Obama, Claire McCaskill, Chris Dodd, Russ Feingold, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Richardson or any of a dozen other Democrats. If Hilary gains control of the Democratic Party, however, I cannot in good conscience remain a Democrat. It will be time to give up on the two dominant parties once and for all and back a third party for the sake of democracy. Four years of McCain, four years more of rule by the one party long dedicated to sleaze, would be preferable to four years of rule by a second party transformed into its twin. The stated policy differences won’t matter at all if democracy ceases to exist. That is what Hilary promises. Her policies will be whatever aggrandizes her power and destroys her enemies. She is not a Democrat or a democrat. She is a Hilaryite. She may succeed in wangling a “victory” from a distorted electoral process, but my vote won’t make it easier for her.

I thought this, at last, was the year for the Democratic Party to sweep to victory and restore the normal workings of our democratic form of government, a chance to clean out the vote suppression gang in the Justice Department and the White House and recognize the right of voters to make free choices again. Either Hilary or Obama should have won big, with high independent support, sweeping many Democrats into Congress and the Senate–at last, there would be a working majority on behalf of great majority of Americans rather than the privileged 2 percent and duped social conservatives. Because of the way Hilary has campaigned, that hope is gone. Forget the polls showing disdain for the disastrous Republican Party. Look at the polls showing McCain gaining strength against both Obama and Hilary. That is Hilary’s doing. The best we can hope for now is for Obama to get the nomination and win a narrow victory with perhaps a few more Democratic seats to work with in a divided, partisan, ineffective Congress. The year of transformation, thanks to Hilary, has been transformed into just another dirty election with politics as usual followed by just another administration with paralysis in Washington interrupted by occasional triumphs for special interests. Forget about confirming a new generation of Democratic justices on the Supreme Court. Such causes didn’t matter to Hilary. All that mattered was getting her hands on the nomination, no matter what opponents, truths, causes and hopes had to be crushed to that end.

Who would have thought that the first woman with a real chance to win the White House would turn out to be the last person on earth who should be allowed to do so? This state of affairs is all her doing, and it is beyond sad.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said here. And, given the way she’s conducted herself in her campaign, I don’t believe she would be a better president than McCain or be a transformational leader for the country in the aftermath of 911 and the GW Bush presidency.

Why do say that Clinton voters “feel the same way?” Will they feel cheated if their candidate is denied the nomination because her opponent secured more pledged delegates during a democratic process? What exactly is their grievance? That Clinton was denied votes in Michigan and Florida when those contests were declared invalid long prior to the elections? Or are Clinton voters permitted to feel outrage simply because their candidate was not deemed “inevitable” by the voting public? How has Clinton been wronged to justify such outrage by her supporters?

If Hillary Clinton hates torture, supports a woman’s right to choose, believes in universal health care, believes in an ethical foreign policy and supports economic justice, then she will not continue to seek the nomination when her only slim hope of securing it depends upon a scorched earth campaign to totally destroy her Democratic Party colleague. By doing so, she is likely to ensure the election of John McCain in what should be a banner Democratic year.

But if she were to get the nomination through such tactics, there is no way that I could support her. At this point, Hillary Clinton is the moral equivalent of George W. Bush. She is devoid of principle, placing her own personal ambition above the good of her party and her country. A person like that will never earn my vote and offers no assurances whatsoever that she would be a better president than McCain.

White working class women and Latinos have showed almost no enthusiasm for Obama (with the exception of the Wisconsin primary). Young voters and new voters have demonstrated almost zero enthusiasm for Clinton (except perhaps in California). There is a civil war between Clinton and Obama supporters on blogs like this. Clinton and Obama surrogates are making disgusting comments about each other. The party is about to experience the most angry, vituperative time in recent memory. The closest thing to it was the dispute between the segregationist wing of the party and the civil right wing in the 1950’s. One result of that dispute was the Eisenhower administration.

Just look at yourself, you’re obviously an Obama supporter. If Clinton wins the nomination in a manner you feel is unfair, will you vote for her? If the answer is yes, do you really think that all the other people who feel like you do will vote for her. Here’s a little news for you, the Clinton supporters feel the same way about their candidate as you feel about yours.

In light of the conflagration that’s surely coming in the democratic party, perhaps you can take comfort in the SUSA poll. I can’t. And I think there’s plenty of evidence to support my point of view.

Clinton supporters love Clinton. Obama supporters love Obama. But the gig is up. With every day that passes, each beccmes a less viable general election candidate. Those of us who hate torture, suport a woman’s right to choose, believe in universal access to health care, believe in an ethical foreign policy and support economic justice ignore that reality at our peril.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful response to my original post. I really enjoyed reading it.