In case you were wondering what happens with unfettered access to unchecked and unaccountable power and why you don't just excuse illegal behavior outright with an "ooopsie, well let's just forget about that and move on, shall we?," here's your answer:
The report is a follow-up to an audit by the inspector general a year ago that found the FBI demanded personal data on people from banks, telephone and Internet providers and credit bureaus without official authorization and in non-emergency circumstances between 2003 and 2005.
Mueller, noting senators' concerns about Americans' civil and privacy rights, said the new report ''will identify issues similar to those in the report issued last March.'' The similarities, he said, are because the time period of the two studies ''predates the reforms we now have in place.''...
Mueller offered no additional details. Several other Justice Department and FBI officials familiar with this year's findings have said privately the upcoming report will show the letters were wrongly used at a similar rate as during the previous three years. (emphasis mine)
Gee, hope no one has a mistress or a child out of wedlock or a secret toe-tapping mens room habit they are trying to conceal. Or any business information they want to keep secure from prying eyes or the competition which might have strong ties to folks in the current Administration. Because the federal government probably has the records to show for it. Some without having to get a warrant before combing through records and e-mails and financial documents and love notes and whatever else....not having to prove they were doing so for legitimate, legal reasons. You know, the reason that the law requires them to get a warrant in the first place. It's not new, in the sense we knew about some of this last year, but it is a lot more detail and worth pointing out just how personal that data could be.
And then there is this:
...That extraordinary admission came from Assistant Attorney General for National Security Kenneth Wainstein at a breakfast on Monday, according to the Washington Post.
At the breakfast yesterday, Wainstein highlighted a different problem with the current FISA law than other administration officials have emphasized. Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, for example, has repeatedly said FISA should be changed so no warrant is needed to tap a communication that took place entirely outside the United States but happened to pass through the United States.
But in response to a question at the meeting by David Kris, a former federal prosecutor and a FISA expert, Wainstein said FISA's current strictures did not cover strictly foreign wire and radio communications, even if acquired in the United States. The real concern, he said, is primarily e-mail, because "essentially you don't know where the recipient is going to be" and so you would not know in advance whether the communication is entirely outside the United States. (emphasis mine)
That would make sense since email doesn't go directly to a device in most cases, it goes to a server that holds the email until the recipient(s) come to pick up the email -- which could be and often is from different parts of the world -- think of any business traveler.
But that also means all the hysterical screaming and the dire scenarios constructed by right-wing spying proponents based on very thin evidence of what the secret court actually ruled -- all of it is just wrong.
And more to the point, the Justice Department and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence allowed them to be wrong for months. They allowed and facilitated their supporters to scare freedom loving people with phantoms of lost wiretaps.
No telecom immunity. Just...no.
Emptywheel parses the finer points. The ACLU has more here, here and here.
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Christy!
And, BTW, the U.S. govt can put you out of business for no reason whatsoever, with just a mouse click.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c.....013257.php
Hey, MayDaze — what’s shaking?
This was just on the local news here. Of course, Mueller claimed that the “excesses” occurred before reforms took place. Yeah, sure…
Not much happening here - how are you and the Peanut?
Good evening Christy.
Do you think that this ’revelation’ might be of any significant ’interest’ to Democratic members of Congress?
Motel room charges…dinners…gifts….hookers…rubberstamps….
I won’t be intimidated by guys like Bush and McCain.
I am betting several critters have a whole lot of hanky panky to hide. Possibly a few more sinister things as well.
If you click thru the links, you’ll see that the Mueller testimony came during a Senate Judiciary hearing. As I said int he post, this isn’t new in terms of the NSLs — it’s an extended peek at the glimpse we got earlier last year of what went on from the time they got the ability to use them until they got caught overusing them for non-emergency purposes.
And I think it clearly makes the point why third-party oversight is essential to prevent egregious abuses. It’s why the checks and balances provisions were a part of the US government from the start, and why government shouldn’t be handed unlimited power.
May not you, but a lot of our Congresscritters are.
All da best jokes are belong to the FBI.
I guess I am out of the loop. I am not sure I understand the significance of this. The bottom line is that they have been saving all our e-mails? Is that it?
The opacity is the problem, which may be a big picture issue that needs to be emphazised more. If there were a legal process with effective oversight to look at headers, even without individual warrants, to see which e-mails might be essentially foreign, but traveling throught the US, then I would not be upset. Sucking up everything and keepting it with no oversight is way bad big time. It is another step towards a police state.
—
A positive note is that Rep McNerney has started running very hardline anti-immunity ads, that pretty much cement his opposition. I know the guy has been controversial in progressive circles for some of his quirks. I was certainly upset by some of his positions. But his radio ads are strong against immunity.
On Democratic primary:
I think there are upsides to continuing Democratic contest in primary. One big one is Dems will have more opportunities to produce interesting news, and with more control over content.
Anyone see that horrible McStain McShame McVain McSame McCain speech last night? I don’t see you anyone could bottom that.
I thought HRC’s speech stunk too. To me, it was devoid of vision and big picture -very self centered and narrow, uninspiring to anyone but an HRC fanatic. But at least you could tell it was given by a sentient person in charge of her faculties. I have been really pissed at some HRC moves lately, and fear what appears to be her (and her team’s) preference for failed DLC tactics. Particularly what seems to be desire to go back to the 18 state strategy. Big states, Big ads, Big Attacks -which have lead to Big Debacles.
But this morning some of Obama’s narrow visionless moves, and unfair negative attacks came to mind -particularly some egregious ad tactics on health care, and I was back to my humdrum indifference between the too.
Given the faults of both candidates have shown to date, I think having them wrangle in public might be better than having them campaigning on their own.
But, HRC has to produce better speeches. And I am not talking about the inpsirational Obmatory part. I don’t think HRC needs to try to copy Obama in any way stylistically. I am just talking about ‘the vision thing’ in terms of content. In HRC’s speech last night the “vision thing” quotient was very close to zero in terms of content.
But, my position is still that obsessing solely on winning this one presidential race with either HRC or Obama portrayed as Savior is a loser strategy. Need to remember importance congress, state houses and governorships as well. It will take several successful election cycles on all those fronts to start healing the political sickness that has dominated the country for past 8 years.
Think that this blog is being monitored? Going for a horseback ride with the brain. Lahoma. I wonder what topics are running through her mind. Lord, God, I love this woman. It’s windy, and warm. And we are heading for the Red River.
Just working my way thru the links.
I wonder though, how many of those I mentioned earlier would pay more than lip-service to your second paragraph? Which ‘is’ what it is all about, of course…
Dugg http://digg.com/political_opin.....To_Hideh_2
Great post Christy!!
EP’ued
Hey funny you should bring up FISA…. I just received several e-mail on just that subject today. The one that pleases me most is from my congress critter Anna Eshoo:
Let’s not start down the violent threat road, shall we? I don’t want to be forced to chat with the Secret Service…
When I think about the Bushies with copies of all my email, I think about how very much of that email is pe*is enlargement spam. And I laugh.
That kind of stuff might just pique their interest! ;)
wanna bet that there weren’t agents snooping into ex-girlfriends’ business using their shiny new powers…
nahant;
received your latest e-mail, but mine do not seem to get through to you.
Mayhap they are being ’saved’ somewhere.
hi nahant - i responded back in epu that i liked the letter too. great to have such a congresswoman.
It just keeps getting more and more insane. Makes me that much more angry with Pelosi. What would bush have to do for her to put impeachment back on the table.
If we just had all of the hay, we’d know exactly where the Terrorist needles are. They’re RIGHT THERE IN THE HAY!!!
Can you libbie weenies not see that?
I’ve done my voluntary self-disclosure duty, you whiny America-haters.
Because you know don’t you, that all of the reasons we enacted FISA were just the result of the post-Nixon fever-swamp mentality of the “I hate America” Democrats, right?
Well at least according to Darth Cheney and David Addington et. al..
“What would bush have to do for her to put impeachment back on the table?”
___________
Destroy all the blackmail material emails and phone call intercepts he has on her.
;)
Yes, the piling on of more and more hay as a means to find the ever-increasingly buried needle eludes me as a “best practices” concept. *G*
And, not to freak anyone out or anything, but we have been having trouble with our phone for the last few months. Weird clicking noises, odd pauses, etc. Not saying we’re having a government problem with the phone or anything and, frankly, we’re really a boring family for of law abiding goody-two-shoes and all…but still, it’s a little weird. For months…to be dealing with this phone issue.
I’m just saying…
Mathematically (I am a statistician), every “nth” additional innocent subject you add to a surveillance sample reduces the probability of finding a perp by at least an nth.
You have new mail!
GW I read that reply and yes it was great to know my congresscritter has her head screwed on right… not like a lot of other ones :>(
My thoughts exactly. And of course, through the 2008 elections all of this will come out anonymously.(sp) LOL
You sir, are a genius. That was hysterical.
Thanks to FDL, we already knew this shit was happening for a long time. Any MSM corroboration and revelation is good news, but the MSM is still 95 percent providing cover for this criminal data mining by the Bushco regime. And the Democrats. Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, Barack, yada yada…
I get the same thing on my land line from time to time… sometimes even a little more noises that just don’t add up to me (being in the computer/communications business for years)
LOL!!
Idiots.
For Pelosi to consider impeachment, she’d first have to grow a spine and then figure out what to do with it.
There is no doubt in my ex-military mind that when the history of this era is written (assuming that our descendants are not all working for Revisionist Republicorp America Inc. as wage slaves) it will not be only be unkind to Preznit Limp Dick, but Nancy Pelosi as well for shirking her Constitutional duties to enforce the checks and balances given her by the Founding Fathers. I mean wonderful, she’s the “first female speaker” but honestly we’d be just as well off having Fat Denny Hastert running the House for all the good she’s done.
If she were to show just the slightest backbone and be willing to investigate the lawlessness of the 1600 Crew it might be something that would make her a remarkable figure. As it is, she’ll be remembered best for her smart red suits and her collection of Hermes Scarves. And her love of power for power’s sake.
Same thing here but a few times after I finished my conversation and hung up the phone, the phone rang. Nobody was there and no record of the call on *69. My son was overseas for awhile so technically because I called the hotel where he was staying and he called me, I could be considered a foreigner.
Anyone see the CNN “breaking story” of US NSA agents busted for rape, drugs, etc? I’ll go look and see if it’s online yet.
“This was just on the local news here. Of course, Mueller claimed that the “excesses” occurred before reforms took place. Yeah, sure…”
Isn’t that what he said when the last report came out?
What’s he saying? “We’ll have that fixed in a Friedman unit?”
Besides, remember the FBI is the place with the computer system that’s been fucked up for at least 10 years, isn’t it?
Bob in HI
707
My old friend whom works for the NSA in DC or Virginia (I forget) as a computer code breaker, came knocking on my door last week. He didn’t say nothin’ so i didn’t say nuthin’. Just caught up on old times and stuff. I must admit I was a little paranoid. And i would have loved to talk to him, but he is a tight-lipped and squirrely guy. He would never say jack shit.
Thanks, Snark on Steroids.
Pissed at the endless mendacity.
I’ve had 3 hard drives completely crash…also, the other day on the phone with my friend talking about dogs or something the phone suddenly sounded like our conversation was on an intercom somewhere else…. (no neither one of us hit any buttons accidently).
They use the same excuses over and over again - I guess they think that’s what recycling means…
We are having the conversation sounding as if it were on speaker phone problem as well. It’s been happening for more than a month.
If we just had all of the hay, we’d know exactly where the Terrorist needles are. They’re RIGHT THERE IN THE HAY!!!
—
Me stat too.
I agree completely with BobbyG. There were some stories about the endless dead-end false leads that were produced by some data mining approaches to surveillance.
Given the probably very small numbers of actual terrorist targets, even a small increase in false positives due to wider scope of surveillance would destroy any effectiveness of such a program. The gobbledigook about algorithms or filters rumbling around a few years ago sounded very impressive, unless you know how those things actually work. If you know what it takes to produce an effective classfication algorithm when the proportino of important targets in the population is very small, it all sounded like incompetence. Either that or they really wanted the data for other purposes -general screening for more common criminal activities (which they said they would not do) or political snooping.
It’s weird. I’ve ended up with crossed lines, party lines in the past…but that is not what this sounded like at all…it was like “our” conversation was out in the open in another room or something like that. It lasted about 20 seconds…enough time for both of us to go..wtf was that!
Long enough to record your voice prints. In the future your calls can be monitored electronically.
I saw a white van with no windows between Austin and Houston when we stopped in a convenience store to get some water last year…A guy opened the side door and got out of it to go get something in the store, and I looked over and saw two guys in the back with earphone sets. Don’t know what that was about…might have been looking for drug deals or something.
Yep.
And, ya get these putatively impressive PhDs selling the government on all this statistical snake oil that won’t work, but will generate lots of gravy data mining contracts.
You’re right. The probability of error goes up typically by more than just one-nth owing to the logistical burdens of handling mass amounts of data, and commercial databases themselves are shot through with error.
I worked in subprime risk modeling for years, One of my colleagues went on to WAMU, and he subsequently bitched about trying to model in a prime credit environment where the prevalence of “bads” was so low.
This shit won’t work for the avowed purpose, but it’ll be handy for building dossiers on otherwise innnocent Americans, and for garnering profitable insider information (’cuz we simply cannot have any independent oversight)..
Could be, but they’ll be sadly disappointed and wasting their time…boneheads.
Did anyone else see the live interview of McCain on CNN after his Bush visit today?
McCain was asked a question about the FEC situation and concerns about the potential to break campaign finance laws. At that moment, he looked to his left, stepped aside, and some unknown guy steps in front of the podium and blows some smoke. McCain then steps back and changes the subject.
I guess as long as someone else is right there to speak for him, he can still claim to be the straight talker.
.
Hey Egregious,
You are making me paranoid, and all I thought was that I was being persecuted.*G*
“When I think about the Bushies with copies of all my email, I think about how very much of that email is pe*is enlargement spam.”
Ah, but they will want to know why are you receiving so much email about this topic. Are you some kind of pervert?
And besides, maybe all this stuff about enlargement is actually code for arms shipments. Especially if some of that “spam” comes from foreign countries.
Bob in HI
Every time I go to a football game, I could swear they’re talkin’ about me in the huddle.
He’s straight talks out of both sides of his mouth…or speaks with a fork-ed tongue…zigzag man.
Serious Hanky Panky:
Digby
OT: Just for a minute…saw and heard the Sandhill Cranes heading North in formation today…Spring is on its way!!!
Holy Shizzola…today he said he’s gonna do a lot more…as he sprints to the end…
Maniac…he’s a maniac!!!
Firing Fallon won’t go over well with the Navy. They need to say No to anything that sorry excuse for a prezdinent says from now on. Stop him.
Don’t tell Dead-Eye Dick Cheney.
The Piper’s a Madman….
He only shoots birds that get released in right in front of his dead eyes so he can murder them and eat them.
Not just the navy. If they Saturday Night Massacre Adm. Fallon over Iran, there is going to be some shit Pentagon-wide.
It would not surprise me one iota to see bush pardon everybody in his past administrations with an hour left in his presiency, then resign just long enough to have Cheney sworn in and pardon Bush and Voila!, Off to paraguay.
I certainly believe you are 100% right.
See, we statisticans can agree on some things. Beneath the lies, damned lies and statistics, lies the truth, someplace or other.
It is not all that difficult to learn enough basics to see where the problems and dilemmas arise with these programs as they have been described to the public. Simple examples of the variety of problems that can be understood by most people in introductions to public health rare disease screening programs.
Another problem is that I never read about any attempt, even conceptually, about how to validate the algorithms these data mining and data scooping approaches. It really sounded like incompetent goofing around.
So I figure what has been going on is either incompetence, boondoggles sold by the snake oil salesmen that BobbyG mentions, or ulterior motives.
Some one needs to find out and make sure there is no waste and incompetence (leading to lack of effective security measures) and no nefarious illegal domestic spying. Either public scrutiny or reliable Congressional investigations.
I know some people don’t like talking about effectiveness when the principles are probably more important in some sense. But there is a good chance the folks in charge simply do not know what they are doing (if the stated goals are the real goals). So that would lead to an situation with loss of civil liberties and no increase in domestic security at all.
That would be a lose-lose situation. Easy to imagine with the current administration.
Hi people….
I believe the bottom line is that the dems needs to be aware that to continue this warrantless wiretapping or access to emails or whatever would be a boon to the people who may be listening in.
Like perhaps knowing what your strategies might possibily be for this upcoming presidential campaign.
It would almost be psychic….
You wouldn’t even need a crystal ball—-
The country is coming to its senses….it just needs to fully wake-up right now. Right now.
Somehow, I think even the complicit Congress Critters, in the new Congress especially, would gain enough spine to impeach Bush, Cheney, AND any federal judge foolish enough to comply with that scenario.
YMMV
Ron Paul is the only candidate left who knows economics.
Why vote for cripples, when a post-financial-holocaust demands the best?
Giuliani said Ron Paul won every debate.
It’s not too late.
Any news on what happens next with the Protect America Act and when?
Maybe we need to talk more and louder about the prospect of a President Hillary Clinton listening in on the calls of Republicans for the next 4 to 8 years…
… or even Hillary listening to Bill’s calls …
… tee hee hee …
Nothing like the fear of gawd to change the hearts and minds of the GOP….
good one—-
I must loudly protest that we do not get Hanky Panky in Canada …
Cool stuff.
Part of the problem is rampant empirical naivete. Data mining and risk modeling methods that may be entirely “effective” and profitable in a commercial sphere are utterly inappropriate when applied to/jiggered for criminal or anti-terror applications.
e.g., at our bank we got about a 1.5% response rate to our pre-selected (data-mined) mass mailings. Of those who responded and whom we booked, our near-term dollar loss rates (relatively quick charge-off defaults) were maybe several percent more.
So, we guessed “wrong” most of the time in the aggregate, but made enough money (CPA: Cost Per Account) from the “good” accounts we booked to pay for all of it and put Lexuses in the executive covered parking.
Here it is, the supreme reason not to vote for John Mccain, not only does he want to continue the Bush policies, he can’t see a damn thing wrong with anything Bushco has done in it’s destruction of the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Geneva Conventions, to mention a few.
“I do not agree with your sentiment that there has been widespread corruption. I just don’t accept that. And by the way my friends do you think it would be nice if the President of the United States got a little bit of credit for the fact that there has not been another attack on the United States of America since 9-11? I think he deserves some credit for that. I really do.”
Somebody smack this guy upside the head with a copy of Hugh’s list so he has something to jar his obviously failing memory.
Swiped from HuffPo.
John McBu’ush.
Stay The Corpse.
*spew* …
McCain: “…And by the way my friends do you think it would be nice if the President of the United States got a little bit of credit for the fact that there has not been another attack on the United States of America since 9-11? I think he deserves some credit for that. I really do.”
So, does that mean that McCain would assign Bush the responsibility/blame for 9-11 itself, which happened on his watch?
Hmmmm….I feel the urge to Photoshop.
Hey Busted Suz just sent me that doggie video it is great… all my doggie friends are now getting it :>)
Powerful…
Where’s darkblack? Here’s an idea for him..
John McCain, the Genocidal Cheerleader. (pom pom Iran)
Evening from the Sunshine State, Christy…
The site is definitely being monitored. I’ve had hits on my site from the DoJ, the DoD C*FA counterintelligence agency, and others…and often the referring URL has been through FDL. So they are definitely watching, and reading (I wonder what they think of Norske Flamethrower?. My view is this:
They already know everything. They have it all. Medical, legal, financial…We have NO secrets…so we might as well tell the truth, because we have nothing to lose! They already have it all, so we might as well stand up and say it loud and proud!
I just thought of Jane’s request to have workers at WaPo email her. I think she ended her request with “all email will be kept confidential”. Hah, this will end any whistle blowing.
He’s just thanking Bush for not doing another one.
That’s why I use my own “John Hancock” on this site. Bring it on!
James L. Clausen
There are many examples like you mentioned in different fields. in classifying likely ‘problem’ hospital admissions for specific conditions and procedures (with problem defined either in clinical or financial terms), it is very difficult to get total correct proportion predictied above 5%, and rate of false positives is typically very high. The cost of false positives is typically low in this context, since cost of extra precaution and monitoring is typically low. And this is in a field with relatively stable processes, lots of validation, ability to do lots of controlled studies to validate alogorithms.
But the stories I have read indicate high rates of false positives have been generated using these techniques when the cost of false positives is high (that is lots of G-men tracking down false leads).
Problem is, we don’t know enough to more than speculate about how bad it might be.
My reaction to all the accounts of these humornous titanic data scooping progrmas is either the adminstration does not know what they are doing, or they are not doing what they say they are doing.
You’re right Ron…
Might as well have as much fun here and say what’s on your mind…
I have always wondered why we have not been rounded up yet for being part of the left-wing conspiracy…
The downside of that is maybe we’re not considered a threat…
Okay, maybe that’s not a good way of looking at this particular situation..
Not to worry, this is normal paranoia. Everyone has it. Besides the last time I talked to football players, they assured me that the things that they had to say about you were positive, mostly.
LOL!!!
BTW- http://www.bgladd.com/JohnMcBuush.jpg
ahHa, that’s excelent :)
I’m getting sick of McBranded McCow and gotta pick up your variations on a theme.
That happened to us when I was switching over from Time Warner bundled internet/cable/phone service to AT&T phone service. In fact I was talking to the ATT rep and we both paused when the phone clicked, we heard breathing, and then another click. “Did you hear that?” “Yes!” “Was that you guys?” “No!”
Brrrr…..
(We only have the one phone in the house….)
Hey Christy, I’m having the clicking noises on my phone too. A moment or so after I get a dial tone, and I think after I dial, there’s this…click. As if I had an extension upstairs and someone was picking it up. Only I don’t.
Hi Christy…
We are not on the same page concerning political coverage, but when it comes to the law YOU ROCK!
peace.
Heya — did you make it back home in one piece?
I think you just caught me on a worn out week. And, if you read through the bottom of the thread, you’ll see why. Welcome to my copious e-mail and every other thread. SIGH
I’ll be better if I can get some extra sleep tonight. I promise.
1,777 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen RonD and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“…(I wonder what they think of NorskeFlamethrower…)”
I don’t wonder because,like you I KNOW “they have it all” and, anyway, I have nuthin’ ta hide ‘cuz I’m a card carryin’, GI veteran, 100% white male Amerkan, right? But seriously, I DO worry about the extent to which speech in so many forums including this one is “chilled” jest a bit by our own self-censorin’ while the wing-nut, fascist inciter sites are allowed free reign to slander, defame and threaten others.
Now, I would NEVER say anythin’ here to or about anyone that I wouldn’t say face to face…and indeed, I’d LOVE ta say face ta face but I have lived over 60 years in this country and I have never experienced the level of fear and paranoia to speak openly about ANYthing political that exists EVERYwhere today. We are experiencing what the Germans experienced at the end of Wiemar…we are bein’ put to the test and this moment may be the last we have to escape the fate that befell our German brothers and sisters.
This is fascism folks and the smileyface masks are comin’ off.
KEEP THE FAITH, AND REMEMBER THERE IS NO COMPROMISIN’ WITH FASCISTS!!