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	<title>Comments on: Florida and Michigan:  Like A Bad Penny&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/</link>
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		<title>By: bonkers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317059</link>
		<dc:creator>bonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317059</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Why did Hillary even leave her name on MI ballot anyway?  Odd how that doesn’t get talked about…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did Hillary even leave her name on MI ballot anyway?  Odd how that doesn’t get talked about…</p>
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		<title>By: bonkers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317057</link>
		<dc:creator>bonkers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317057</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It was there yesterday, and notice now it says “We Got What We Wanted…Three More Months of Chaos.”  It makes sense they would take it down after OH and TX.  If there are more open primaries I’m sure we’ll be seeing the “Vote Hillary” campaign again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was there yesterday, and notice now it says “We Got What We Wanted…Three More Months of Chaos.”  It makes sense they would take it down after OH and TX.  If there are more open primaries I’m sure we’ll be seeing the “Vote Hillary” campaign again.</p>
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		<title>By: globalcitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317047</link>
		<dc:creator>globalcitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1317047</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Clintons will wait to offer this until universities are no longer in session, making it harder for Obama to mobilize turnout in Michigan and Florida (in June). She can say it right after Pennsylvania and it will take until June to make it happen. It would be hard for Obama to refuse, but it will be very bad for the party if this all drags on until then. But, it may also be the case that by then all Obama would have to do is get 40% in these states to get the nomination. Other than PA, he will win most of the remaining states.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Clintons will wait to offer this until universities are no longer in session, making it harder for Obama to mobilize turnout in Michigan and Florida (in June). She can say it right after Pennsylvania and it will take until June to make it happen. It would be hard for Obama to refuse, but it will be very bad for the party if this all drags on until then. But, it may also be the case that by then all Obama would have to do is get 40% in these states to get the nomination. Other than PA, he will win most of the remaining states.</p>
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		<title>By: bobh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316977</link>
		<dc:creator>bobh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316977</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Shouldn’t it be possible eventually to vote online, MoveOn.org-style?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn’t it be possible eventually to vote online, MoveOn.org-style?</p>
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		<title>By: MartianPolitics</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316774</link>
		<dc:creator>MartianPolitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 06:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316774</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it is a great idea - seriously. People are all fired up. I bet the turnout in Florida and Michigan would be enormous. So, let them vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is a great idea &#8211; seriously. People are all fired up. I bet the turnout in Florida and Michigan would be enormous. So, let them vote.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316702</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316702</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I mean in that particular major newspaper.  The NYT, Politico, and the network sites do make the distinction although many of their charts don’t.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The CNBC, CBS, CNN projected winner charts last night did not make it graphically at all and I know a lot of people will go through the rest of their lives (not here of course) not understanding this.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean in that particular major newspaper.  The NYT, Politico, and the network sites do make the distinction although many of their charts don’t.</p>
<p>The CNBC, CBS, CNN projected winner charts last night did not make it graphically at all and I know a lot of people will go through the rest of their lives (not here of course) not understanding this.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316695</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316695</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I wasn’t being critical of any analogies or you, but as was hammered tonight on KO by several people–it distorts grasping who is winning when you think of 3/4 states last night because of &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Percentages that you see represent very different delegate apportionment in Texas and if you go state by state in all 4 states–Hillary is going to come out with a gain of 8-10 delegates.  The headline in my paper was two inches large in type I haven’t seen since 911.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am in a place which is in the top ten media markets in the country.  I just reread every article on the election.  They list the percentages of the states and the total delegates in each state available.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you showed that front section and all its articles to anyone who doesn’t know a little about delegates, they would conclude that delegates were assigned directly by the percentages of voters.  No where do they list the actual delegate yield for Clinton or Obama per state.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I find this ludicrous, and really unfortunate because many people don’t understand that while Clinton did do better than expected, she is so significantly behind in delegates it is near mathematically impossible for her to gain enough pledged delegates from the remianing 12 states.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No one could tell from reading any article or list that Hillary comes away with 8-10 Max delegates after what Obama called “the sound and fury.”  He didn’t say it signified nothing, and of course it didn’t.  But it signified a very small delegate gain by Hillary and I was stressing that to think in terms of states won makes that hard if not impossible to realize.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn’t being critical of any analogies or you, but as was hammered tonight on KO by several people–it distorts grasping who is winning when you think of 3/4 states last night because of </p>
<p>Percentages that you see represent very different delegate apportionment in Texas and if you go state by state in all 4 states–Hillary is going to come out with a gain of 8-10 delegates.  The headline in my paper was two inches large in type I haven’t seen since 911.</p>
<p>I am in a place which is in the top ten media markets in the country.  I just reread every article on the election.  They list the percentages of the states and the total delegates in each state available.</p>
<p>If you showed that front section and all its articles to anyone who doesn’t know a little about delegates, they would conclude that delegates were assigned directly by the percentages of voters.  No where do they list the actual delegate yield for Clinton or Obama per state.</p>
<p>I find this ludicrous, and really unfortunate because many people don’t understand that while Clinton did do better than expected, she is so significantly behind in delegates it is near mathematically impossible for her to gain enough pledged delegates from the remianing 12 states.</p>
<p>No one could tell from reading any article or list that Hillary comes away with 8-10 Max delegates after what Obama called “the sound and fury.”  He didn’t say it signified nothing, and of course it didn’t.  But it signified a very small delegate gain by Hillary and I was stressing that to think in terms of states won makes that hard if not impossible to realize.</p>
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		<title>By: amodernguy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316675</link>
		<dc:creator>amodernguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316675</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Cuz…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;For the Dems to right off these delegations will have ramifications come November. A “redo” now has all of the feel of a sudden death overtime being held in three ring circus. This problem is, as you so aptly put, a bad penny…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only logical way to handle this is to seat the delegations. The creditials committee could do this before the convention. While maybe not ideal this solution at least does not smack of disenfranchising real voters who did come out and vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cuz…</p>
<p>For the Dems to right off these delegations will have ramifications come November. A “redo” now has all of the feel of a sudden death overtime being held in three ring circus. This problem is, as you so aptly put, a bad penny…</p>
<p>The only logical way to handle this is to seat the delegations. The creditials committee could do this before the convention. While maybe not ideal this solution at least does not smack of disenfranchising real voters who did come out and vote.</p>
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		<title>By: PetePierce</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316669</link>
		<dc:creator>PetePierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316669</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I honestly think the only fair thing to do in Florida is to count the 1.5 million votes that were already cast in an election that was held on even ground for both candidates.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In fact Mike Gavel only campaigned there. The election was not held on even ground for both candidates because they actually agreed there was no valid election there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I honestly think the only fair thing to do in Florida is to count the 1.5 million votes that were already cast in an election that was held on even ground for both candidates.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In fact Mike Gavel only campaigned there. The election was not held on even ground for both candidates because they actually agreed there was no valid election there.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316653</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 04:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/05/florida-and-michigan-like-a-bad-penny/#comment-1316653</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think I mentioned anything about “winning a State”. Maybe my “track race” analogy was imperfect…but it was directed at the idea of changing rules after the decision has been made…not implying that winning a race = state. All analogies are imperfect, otherwise they’d merely describe the actual event. The value of an analogy is that sometimes it gets people to see something complex in a broader scope. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People have a sense of “playing by the rules” in Sports…in politics, not so much.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think I mentioned anything about “winning a State”. Maybe my “track race” analogy was imperfect…but it was directed at the idea of changing rules after the decision has been made…not implying that winning a race = state. All analogies are imperfect, otherwise they’d merely describe the actual event. The value of an analogy is that sometimes it gets people to see something complex in a broader scope. </p>
<p>People have a sense of “playing by the rules” in Sports…in politics, not so much.</p>
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