Just make it stop. Via Glenn:
The signs are unmistakably clear that what was always inevitable — full compliance by the House Democratic leadership with Bush’s demands on warrantless eavesdropping and telecom amnesty — is now imminent. House leaders spent the week floating their specific proposals for how they intend to comply in full, and yesterday, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes went on CNN with Wolf Blitzer, refused to criticize the President or the Senate FISA bill, and repeatedly and meekly expressed his willingness "this week" to give what he called full "blanket immunity" to telecoms (C&L has the video of Reyes’ astoundingly weak and incoherent answers in response to Blitzer’s Bush-mimicking questions)….
But what is somewhat baffling in all of this is just how politically stupid and self-destructive their behavior is. If the plan all along was to give Bush everything he wanted, as it obviously was, why not just do it at the beginning? Instead, they picked a very dramatic fight that received substantial media attention. They exposed their freshmen and other swing-district members to attack ads. They caused their base and their allies to spend substantial energy and resources defending them from these attacks.
When you get right down to it, what does all of this kabuki mean? As always, Digby brings the core of this whole idiocy home in three sentences:
The usurpation of democracy and the constitution doesn’t rate very high on their list of priorities, especially when they see the prospect of a Democratic president who they trust not to follow in Bush’s footsteps.
But this was a principle worth fighting for no matter what. No president, Democrat or Republican, should be trusted with this kind of power.
So, what to do? There’s always a few calls and FAXes, to keep slowing things down in the short term — because a number of our Blue America candidates and other Democrats who are freshman are being pummelled by right-wing nutball ads (and Joe Lieberman) for standing up for the rule of law and they need us to have their backs. McJoan has the phone and FAX numbers.
If for no other reason than any delay is guaranteed to piss off JoeLie and his odious neocon pals…and Dick Cheney. That’s definitely worth something. How about we get to work?
Related posts:
- Jeb Bush: Stop Blaming My Brother for Driving the Country Off a Cliff
- Reid to Baucus: Stop Chasing GOP Votes on Health Care
- Let’s Stop Max Baucus’s Bipartisan Fetish In Health Reform
- Silvestre Reyes: CIA Lied to Congress
- Hey, Harry Reid, Stop Protecting Democrats Who Want to Filibuster the Public Option
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Hey christy
Yes, Make it Stop! Now!!!
Blackmail.
Madness, madness, madness!
Good post. The litmus test for the unitary president theory is to ask the critter how they’re going to feel about it if the president is from the other party. That is, if they have an imagination and can really accept that that might happen, duh.
You know, that phone ad could very well be the phone ringing in my house and I don’t answer it because it’s tapped FGS.
And christy, your public poo fling was genius.
Redd, Reyes and Co. are merely miming one another… I received this letter yesterday from Sen. Inouye explaining his cave-in…
What’s to be done?
So compliant.
So obedient.
So willing to give Dear Leader anything he wants, really.
Our Democratic Congressional Leadership.
for Raven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QF3Q23bAcg
Thanks for sharing. If I read it right, Sen. Inouye is contradicting himself all in one stop shopping. IIRC he wasn’t exactly strong on this issue before the saber rattling a couple of weeks ago? IOW are we surprised he caved on this one? am i reading it right?
There are smart, serious adults running this country and they don’t need any
input from FDL DFHs who are bent on destroying America by
making a pro-terrorist fuss every time the Constitution is gutted.
Now just STFU and get back to the mall.
[Mod Note; closed snark tag.]
digg for immunity too!
IMO, the dem leadership needs to go just as bad as lil boots. There is no distance between them. Lil boots breaks the law, the dems co sign their bullshit. The way it stands now they are one in the same.
BTW, it was sent from his DC office beautifully embossed and printed on vellum, I question the authenticity of the signature, tho… ;-)
The blame lies with the leadership. Pelosi and Reid must be removed as leaders what positive has come from their leadership? Feingold and Dodd for Dem Leadership!!!!!!!!!!
Here’s the comment I made at Glenn’s blog in response to the quoted bit above:
I think that in the calls to Reyes, we need to read his own words back to him over and over about not backing down.
Killer!
yup
GFYS
Ironic, all that flowery talk of protecting our civil liberties… and then…! Yep, that was my take, too…! 8-(
I refuse to be disaffected of hope. There will be a change.
Why don’t we just email the NSA transcripts of our phone calls to him?
Fixing our voting process should be first and foremost in our efforts IMHO. I don’t understand why vote tampering and suppression seem to yield a collective yawn around much of the Liberal blogs, yet something like Telecom Immunity can start whole movements. This is one of the central issues of our times.
There’s already been all kinds of zaniness in OH, so how many election cycles are we going to be saying, “I don’t understand what happened. It seemed like we were going to do really well here. What happened?!?”
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-b…..71906.html
Nov is fast approaching and little has changed on this front from 2004. Are you with me?!?
Democratic leadership. What leadership? Pelosi and Reid must go.
I guess we need to start faxing and using the old U.S. mail service to insure no one will see our communications. Wait … It is still illegal for the Gov’t to open you mail without a warrant isn’t it?
Yes, that probably would be faster. But my first question remains. Who wrote that letter for Reyes? Obviously, from his interview on CNN, he fully intends to cave in.
letter writer =Darth
imo
Ha! You are serious huh?
Joe Lieberman. Now there’s a ’statesman’ for you. How in the world did we get ourselves into this mess?
No.
And FAXes aren’t in the clear either.
OK these two lines jump up and down at me:
Mu bold. Uh, Senator, with all due respect, it’s my right and responsibility to protect myself. it’s your job to honor my freedom and liberties. BTW, this eavesdropping started BEFORE our lives were in danger and what did it get us?
And this:
WTF??? We must give up our freedom and liberty so we don’t concede our freedom and liberty? And we accomplish that by allowing the actions of this Administration a free pass?
Brilliant! Thank you! Thank you Senator. Thank you for this poo.
Ugh!
hard to imagine, but the reid/pelosi congress is about to become a more bush-compliant congress than the frist/hastert congress was.
aren’t there some “republican rubber stamp” stamps we could send them?
Maybe his kids wrote it? They might actually give a rip.
They’ve caved every time. They never intended to fight, which begs the question. Why pretend in the first place. It’s not like we won’t find out they caved. Reyes makes it pretty clear they stipulated to immunity so long as they got inforamation they were after.
the MSM reminds me of a bad Broadway show that is overfunded and wont close down,after many horrible,unwatchable performances
Yes! the stamps!!!!
Why would illegality matter? They’d just get the rubber stampers to give them retroactive immunity.
it’s all in speaker pelosi’s hands now – the 4th amendment of the constitution of the united states.
if any bill is brought to the floor, it means the dem leadership has caved.
the mal administration must have written this,for they have the MOST to lose
I called them all. The aides seemed really happy to get the call!
My response to my Congressman (spit, yuck, ptooie) on his “explanation” of how FISA works
Reyes is an old company hand, loyal to the Bush family, gutted the
democratic opposition for some later corporate reward. It will take
more than one election cycle for the house cleaning needed.
It just blows me out. McCain is the GOP frontrunner. Civil liberties and John McCain are contradictory elements. The Republicans are supposed to be strict constructionists.
AP – Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton contested primaries in Ohio, Texas and two other states on Tuesday, the front-runner and his pursuer in a riveting race for the Democratic presidential nomination. John McCain reached out for the Republican delegates needed to secure his nomination after a decade’s struggle.
i was so very happy when she was ushered in as speaker,it is a bitter dissapointment,like Kerry,Reid,and Steny
Fact of the matter is… I no longer want to leave anything in Pelosi’s hands.
I hope Huckster kicks his butt in Texas.
Reid and Pelosi are a cancers on the Democratic Party.
Don’t forget Stenny kiddo.
I feel the same way. ‘Tis a puzzlement.
they assume far too much, a democrat is neither a lock, nore likely NOT to follow in bush’s footsteps, power corrupts
What is so difficult to understand, Pelosi, Reed, et al are Fascists, they protect a fascist administration installed by a fascist supreme court. As part of the fascist cabal, their part is to eviscerate any Constitutional process intended to rectify executive or judicial abuse. They talk like fascists, they lie like fascists, they walk with fascists, they are in bed with fascists. The public has made a mistake as to their character, why is it so hard to face facts, the government is in the hands of fascists and that is not going to change without accepting – these people are fascists.
The signs are unmistakably clear that what was always inevitable — full compliance by the House Democratic leadership with Bush’s demands on warrantless eavesdropping and telecom amnesty — is now imminent. House leaders spent the week floating their specific proposals for how they intend to comply in full, and yesterday, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Silvestre Reyes went on CNN with Wolf Blitzer, refused to criticize the President or the Senate FISA bill, and repeatedly and meekly expressed his willingness “this week” to give what he called full “blanket immunity” to telecoms (C&L has the video of Reyes’ astoundingly weak and incoherent answers in response to Blitzer’s Bush-mimicking questions)….
and now you know how i got my name….same sad story weekly/weakly
That would be fun.
So what’s your take on Bill Durston?
(Fellow CA-3rd District resident.)
For me in an ideal world you’d have attorneys with strong constitutional law awareness in their backgrounds as chairmen of these committees–not someone like Reyes who got their by the age old method of seniority. I don’t even know who is on this committee that plays with FISA now, and I guess that’s a secret and if it’s not a formal Conference Committee it’s a quasi-formal Conference Committee.
For sure.
I have been very disappointed in Pelosi and Reid. And one other Democrat.
i think digby’s only half right… i see NO reason to think that they care if the next president continues to spy on americans. in fact, i’m pretty sure that some of them (jello jay for example) want the next administration (R or D) to continue with the current policies.
can we please stop making excuses for the dem leadership now?
the house leadership fucked us over in august, they tried to do it again in the fall with the restore act – but holt and the progressive caucus fought back (without our support or thanks) and forced the house leadership to back away from some of the worst of their bill.
dodd promised to filibuster and did not.
and the the senate UC on jan 31 was a complete cave – which reid et all told us was a win.
i’m sick of all the lies we’ve been told by our congressional leadership – and i am most frustrated that anyone would think for a picosecond of giving them the benefit of the doubt ever again.
from glenn:
Do you suppose they were finally shown the documentation that the government signed on to indemnify the telecoms and that it is the government that is on the hook for many billions when the lawsuits play out? bmaz has made a strong case for indemnification over at Emptywheel and the top diary over at DailyKos is quoting him on it.
When the admirable Tiberius upon becoming emperor, received a message from the Senate in which the conscript fathers assured him that whatever legislation he wanted would be automatically passed by them, he sent back word that this was outrageous. “Suppose the emperor is ill or mad or incompetent?” He returned their message. They sent it again. His response: “How eager you are to be slaves.”
— Edward Gibbon, History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Sarcasm; At least with mail you can tell if someone has opened it.(if you make sure the tint of your sealing wax is a unique color and make sure your signet ring is the only one of it’s kind that is. M’Lord). I guess we can start using carrier pigeons or maybe use some code the NSA can’t break. (right!)
Lahoma is edgy over Ohio and Texas. When she’s edgy, I am too.
Me too Anxious too
please,do you know the Joan Didion quote,about Americas lost its taste for democracy?
That about sums up what I’d sent in response to his letter, I did thank him for responding… While telling him I’ll not be voting for him in ‘10 if he’s planning on running again, after all he’s been in congress since 1963…!
be right back with my answer …
i think i shall have a rolling rock,im nervuuuuuuuuuus too
Do you think they want to beat the repugs at their game? Blackmail them into oblivion? Or just screw the public, once again?
on the house’s floor schedule for tomorrow:
We’re biting our nails here too.
I’ve been following bmaz next door. His theory makes a ton of sense except that the dems have caved on every issue. It’s quite possibly the case considering FISA. But how do you explain the wholesale cave in’s with habeus and all the other stuff?
another opening of another show…da,da,da,da,da,da…da
ding!
Happy Corporate Soveriegnty Day!
sadly, no *g* – but I’d love to see it.
a REALLY big shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhoe
i think we make a big mistake when we think of the congressional dem leadership as either on our side or opposing the republican leadership. i think they’ve shown us where their loyalities lie – when push comes to shove they side with the republicans and against us.
all we get is elaborate kabuki and lies.
Maybe they don’t cave in the beginning because they reap more financial or other rewards if they hold out.
Blackmail. Unspecified. That’s the only reason I can think of.
i saw it this morning here,and so wanted to steal it
I think they’ve evaluated this as a no win situation — where they’ll get branded as soft on terror (which they’ll get branded as no matter what they do by the GOP, even though tough on the rule of law sounds better to me than being a patsy…) and because Bush is going to veto any bill that isn’t exactly what he wants.
Which is why I think they ought to just go with no bill at all. And why I’ve argued myself hoarse for weeks with people on the Hill about this…and why I’m just plain disgusted with the whole thing. Delaying this at all has been a minor miracle, but I was really hoping we’d somehow pull off the whole shebang…hope springs eternal, I suppose, but she’s riding in a leaky boat at the moment. SIGH
Well put. Thanks for your answer.
link?
i’m pretty sure that’s wishful thinking.
how about they don’t agree with us? how about they agree with mcconnell and bush? or how about they don’t give a fuck?
seriously. why make excuses for them?
I don’t know the quote, but over the last two years the one that keeps popping into my head is that “we get the democracy we deserve.”
I kind-of had a similar discussion with someone on here a few days ago. IMO, the dems never intend to do the right thing. It can’t be as simple as blackmale. Even a few of those loyal to bushie have gotten fed up and started talking. I surely don’t know the answer but it makes me angry as hell.
I just can’t understand it any other way.
i don’t mind loosing so much as i mind getting played. and i mind getting lied to by people who claim to be on my side.
Don’t give up just yet Christy … tell us what to do to take the fight to Congress …
grabbed it from another fab PUP
merkwurdiglieber March 4th, 2008 at 7:58 am 99
In response to whitebeard @ 94
I am becoming convinced you are right, sorry to say… Joan Didion wrote
in 2004 that she wondered if the americans had the instincts for democracy anymore. She is rarely wrong.
Doesn’t all the hoopla on the teevee sound exactly like the hoopla on the teevee the day of Super Tuesday? We all know how that went down. Personally, I want them both to stick it out until just before the convention so that there is not too much pressure on one candidate. Two targets are harder to hit than one (metaphorically speaking, of course). Again, I hope the Huckster really messes up McCain’s numbers tonight — McCain needs a little humblement.
sadly everything makes a ton of sense if you give up the assumption that they care about the things that you care about.
Well I for one am shocked at the congresscritters behavior but not surprised.
Everything is on schedule, please move along.
HELL NO!
The economy is going to crush the Pukes in November.
Let him, doesn’t that truly work in our favor…?! 8-)
it goes further
it demoralizes the rest of us who REALLY do care
The best thing we can do is to get more people who stand on principles and who understand why this fight needs to be made in office. Folks like Feingold and Hodes and everyone else who have been working their asses off on this for months. If you think you are pissed, you can only imagine how this must feel to them, eh?
Give them more people to fight with…who will actually do the necessary work. It’s a long-term thing, not something we can win in the short-term. Beyond that, I’m open to suggestions…
I often wonder how you all stay so positive in face of such an iceberg.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..mpaign_rdp
We need to be like horses…buck Bush off.
If bmaz’s theory is correct, wouldn’t at least some members of Congress know? The law says they should, right -or is my non-a-lawyer status led me astray? It is a simple question. The administration has no excuse for answering it with a suffocating document dump. All the papers should be in one place, neatly arranged in a nice tidy binder. Probably with some color coded tabs and stuff.
So, have members of Congress asked? Shouldn’t the bmaz theory be a public issue?
It has a nice ring to it, for a spy thriller novel: The Bmaz Conjecture.
BTW, I see no reason why this kind of information has to be classified.
IMO the old hands and “leaders” really believe that they know better. We the lowly people don’t know what is best for us and they are not going to let the crude masses dictate the laws and governing of this country. Dem or GOP the leaders are the same. The New rabid Republicans are just do what they are told the New Dems are slapped down quickly b/c they are the minority.
Let the Blogosphere unite and show if BushCo undermined the Constitution … Congress obviously doesn’t have the gumption to nail him …
that stupid song wont go out of my head….another opening of another show
argh!@#$%^&*()_T^Y&@#$%^&
I guess I am just guilty of thinking that the tide was finally turning. Obama actually made some nice comments about the Constitution last week.
The FISA revision was at least delayed. The new Intelligence Authorization Bill makes the military field manual the basis for interrogation techniques for the entire government, including CIA. I thought Congress was finally catching on to some of the damage they had done and finally decided to fight back, especially with the language in Reyes’ letter.
I think I am left with selise’s interpretation that it is all, always has been, and always will be kabuki.
This is another reason why Blue America is so important. We have to support those who will care about what we care about so they can get elected.
yup….DISLODGE the cabal,stuck in our throat and choking us all
I just want to put in a plug for a great web site:
http://www.care2.com/
Check out their Action Alerts, if nothing else. That’s how I learned about the latest petition to stop this nonsense.
peace out
This is what I had highlighted initially, toobz screwy…
I think it’s inaccurate to lump every member of Congress into the same basket on this. Some of them have truly been working their asses off — including staffers in a lot of the offices of leadership folks. It’s just that the political calculation — which is think is WRONG — is winning as an argument with a lot of folks who aren’t firmly on the stand up for the rule of law bandwagon.
I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating this is for me, let alone for you guys. Imagine having been one of the Senators or House members who worked their ass off on this only to potentially get sold out…for an election year political calculation…
Thanks, I’m e- mailing Feingold a note of support and a copy of the Fourth Amendment to as many Congresscritters as I can …
About the only recourse remaining is to send the message – NO INCUMBENTS RE-ELECTED and YOU HAVE NO HOME IN THIS COUNTRY. Banish the bastards from the country, every last one of them.
i was so frustrated that i must have hit the submit button by accident.
no one better give up now.
the whole purpose of oversight has been first and foremost to make sure the dems don’t baffle us with their kabuki. because so long as they can do this, they will have no motivation to give us anything else.
we’ve got to find a way not to get played. and a way to let them know that we see through their lies. we aren’t there yet. and i’m not sure we even understand how much we’re getting played. and that is why i sometimes despair.
When I made my calls, I gently told them that there is a movement out here that will vote out the people that cave to Bush. They couldn’t have been nicer….I told them to hang tough until we get a Dem president…they were all like…yeah…thank you so much for calling!!
Because icebergs melt…and they can also be moved. It just takes some shifts in the winds and a bit of extra heat.
Got it … tell Bush to “Buck Off !!!”
What was the reason for the delay if they are giving Bush what he wants?
Was it all institutional prerogative — seeing the documents?
No PAA extension, no judicial confirmations, nothing but hearings on corruption, contracting, and cronyism until November: that’s the ticket.
yup Kabuki American style…..kick kick turn kick
Super-delegates should vote for the winners of the primaries and caucuses.
Yes, well…I think they should call King Petulant’s bluff, personally. But they don’t put me in charge of strategery, now do they? *G*
It’s the war and the economy.
*Standing on chair and clapping*
Well said, Christy !
So, you’d throw out Feingold and Hodes and all the rest who worked their asses off on this, then? Wow, that’s useful. Not.
choking us
christy… just what i’ve been saying all along… don’t expect the truth from any of them. do not permit yourself to feel disloyal for doubting what you are told. question everything and let’s pull back the curtains on their deception.
You do understand the extent to which your Democrats in Congress work for the Pukes and jump when they say jump don’t you? Glenn’s articles the past week have illustrated the extent of that relationship.
Yeah! And tell him to “Get off”…your not gonna ride me…no way…and then just like horses do…sneeze, so the snot goes all over him…and turn around and fart in his general direction!! Maybe that will make him go away.
Yeah, well, it’s been quite a while since I’ve fully trusted anyone except Mr. ReddHedd and The Peanut. Hazard of spending your professional life working around criminals, I think. *g*
thanks for the link, kiddo. i just read it and it’s a bit strange the way they’ve written this. it’s in the past tense as though the primary is over when the polls don’t close til 7pm.
Appuyé!
(seconded)
our media keeps the rubes interested in Brit,Brangelina,and American Idol,while they slowly suck the essence out of this country
That’s a really good one!!
What frosts my balls over this cave in is that they can’t seem to get it through their thick skulls they are in the same boat we are!
Idiots.
do they think for one fleeting second that if BushCo can spy on everyone that everyone includes them?
ARRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!
I do not like NAFTA. I do not like CAFTA. I do not like the WTO.
“How about we get to work?”
Christy, thanks again for your leadership on this issue.
I’ve already written to my Rep. about this, and I think he’s on the side of the angels on this one. I just hope he’s not passive about it, and is actively shoring up the ranks.
I am holding out this hope: That the Dems are giving the Reps enough rope to hang themselves, and that the false floor is about to drop. Ambition is always shadowed by hubris. But I grow weary of waiting.
Where are the Democrats who will, once again, make me proud of our Democracy and the Constitution? Like Barbara Jordan? Why has John Conyers become such a coward?
Bob in HI
OT…I left a reply to you on the Poo thread (#427).
A professional life which has well-suited you as our liaison to Congress, I might add!
why dont Americans care,that their government reads ALL their emails,knows what porn sites they go to,have access to all
The Democrats should know by now that there will be no reward or even pass from corporate press or GOP for passing immunity. It will just pave the way to another bogus attack of some kind.
If the House Dems cave it is either political cowardice, or due to telecom money (assuming the telecoms do care about it but don’t want to go public and prefer money to do their talking directly to the congresspeople). Or, the authoritarian mindset has been adopted by some in Congress, and those folks so infected should be elected out of Congress asap.
BTW, folks you can email your House critters from this web site…
http://www.house.gov/house/Mem…..e.shtml#hi
one more thing… i disagree with this statement:
i agree that this is an important thing to work on… but i disagree that it is “the best” – i keep trying to remind folks that nixon gave us the epa and osha. he didn’t do that because he or congress had any principles. they did it because they had to – the public made it in their best interest and kabuki wouldn’t have satisfied.
i think the most important lever we have is to make it in the politician’s best interest to do the right thing. and they way we can do that – and get even the most craven politician to do what’s right – is to make it impossible for them to get political gain in any other way.
every time we get fooled by their lies, we are teaching them to lie to us some more. every time their lies don’t work to fool us is also lesson for them.
The heat should be turned up on Pelosi…I am sure if we make it hot enough she can’t hold onto idea of blanket immunity for too long.
I spent many years as a probation officer (adult and juvenile) in Placer County, California. I understand what you are saying. All too well.
Because, right now, most Americans are worried about how to feed their families after they pay for the high gas prices they have to pay to fill their tank to get to work at the job they are terrified of losing to keep the benefits that shrink every year for the chronic illness that one of them has which makes them uninsurable should they lose said less-than-fab coverage. For starters…for a whole lot of people, survival is on their radar screen. Anything beyond that is something extra that they cannot even lift their heads up to see right now.
And the GOP counts on that to get away with this shit. Which is why I refuse to let it go.
Starting with Pelosi, Reed, et al who are on record as violating their oaths of office, (and all republican officeholders, known for their goosestepping acquiescence to the executive). That has been the substance of all my comments, enlarging the scope is putting false words into the comments made, that is bad.
D.C. is a realllllllllllllllly creepy town for the little time ive been there,it reminds me of Moscow ca 1960s everybody listening to their neighbors
Such language from you, young man, I’m shocked! *g*
We are coming to a time of change and this election is barely the whisper in the air of spring after decades of winter. The pundits in the MSM are aging and will be out when the demographics show that they aren’t pulling young viewers anymore. Politics may not change much but those who get elected will have to answer to the blogosphere. We have seen this movement begin to roll like a boulder gaining speed as it descends a mountainside. In the last 8 years the blogosphere arose out of the need and desire for more. WE can make the politicians answer to us as it happened when Print was widely used, again when there was a Radio in ever household and then TV. It will all change but the pendulum is only once again going in the other direction.
It’s a fairly sucky way to view the world, but once you’ve had to view it through that lens…it’s really tough to regain your optimism, isn’t it? *g*
excellent point.
may i suggest you put a big “criminal” label on your mental picture of reid and pelosi and the rest of them?
Bob, I think Mazie is too! 8-)
Making ends meet from month to month, is now the imperative for most Americans.
I’ve never had a senator or rep respond to my actual email. I get form emails and letters back from them.
Although I do send them, I do it more for their tallies on issues rather than expecting them to actual read my specific message.
President McCain. More compassionate conservatism, and more war.
I have seen the enemy. And he is McCain.
very sadly i have seen this,with many people taking 2 jobs,remember Lord Fauntelroy pointing to the woman with 3………..exaustion makes determination a goal harder to reach
I wished someone knew how to tap into a Senator’s phone to have his or her personal phone conversation come through the loudspeaker outside the Senate building. I’m sure the Senator would be okay with it because he or she currently has no problem with the telecom companies recording it nor the government listening in and interpreting it. Let’s just have all their phone calls on live stream for all Americans to hear since they don’t care about personal privacy.
I don’t know with certainty if President Obama or President Clinton will do a better job than George W. Bush has. But I’m hell bent on finding out.
we could do some fake ones on Youtube….hey
I would strongly support a coordinated blogosphere effort to remove Reid and Pelosi from the leadership. Even if it didn’t remove them, it might put enough pressure on them to vote our way.
All that work by Chris Dodd! For naught!?!
wait,i will go get my rolling rock,im not much of a drinker,but sooooo much is at stake
Or maybe we should start fooling with the House & Senate members minds by calling their offices and saying that we heard what he or she said about so and so on the phone. Then tell the intern we work for AT&T or Verizon.
Could be fun. ;-)
if we aren’t doing anything wrong, what do we have to worry about?
Ah, email works better for me. I made a call and registered a complaint to a very kind secretary of an Iowa congressman. But I feel like I’m able to articulate my thoughts better in email.
LOL … I’m juiced, can you tell ?!! *g*
As you’ve seen with the Obama NAFTA story, we have Neocons up here and the only way to stop them is to cut off their source of power … the Office of the POTUS …
Perfect! LOL
dont remind me,must have alcohol first
I do not like them here, I do not like them there, I do not like them anywhere!
FunnyD
Do you really want Steny Hoyer as Speaker of the House and Rahm Emmanuel as Majority Leader?
hey hey,im up for it
Don’t we just mix the wires up somehow?
OT – Have you heard from Hill (OldBroadSpeaks)?
Kinda like democracy is turned on its head, don’t you think?
What they do is private, while they get to check in on us at any time.
There are times when I think I should never have taken that job. But there were some rewards. Here and there. ;0)
Exactly Elliott. According to the House & Senate members we ALL should trust that our phone calls are being handled with care. I’m sure they’d have no problem with those having a picnic lunch outside the Senate building listening in on their private phone calls. ;-)
Because the government isn’t sharing their porn sites with us.
My critters may take their sweet time answering my queries, but, at least they do respond… They also do take their constituent service requests seriously, I’ve had immediate action taken on several occasions, once for SSA action and the next morn, I’d received a call from a SSA rep… at 6:30 in the morning…! *g*
(Psst. You forgot the /snark tag)
all back room deals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you?
I don’t know everything about him but the most important thing I do know is that he is an incredibly good person.
He’s and his wife Dianne are the kind of people you would ask to watch your kids if you had to leave town for a funeral or something; they’re the kind of people you would have watch your house if you were out of town.
Dianne is a music teacher for deaf students which seems kind of counter-intuitive but you really have to have an incredible amount of empathy for people to do something like that.
Bill is an enlisted Marine combat (unlike Dan “chickenhawk” Lungren) veteran of Vietnam (3rd force Recon). After he came back he finished first in his class in biochemistry where he was a Regents Scholar at UC Berkely, and went to Med School at UC San Fran, is board certified in internal medicine and emergency medicine and has practiced for over 20 years. He is past President of Physicians for social Responsibility and decided to run against Dan Lungren after a “Out of Iraq Townhall Event” (actually put together by our little DFA group) where he appeared with Charlie Brown (CD-4) candidate, Cindy Sheehan, Norman Solomon, and Sean Penn among others
He’s for everything I’m for and against everything I’m against. And his only special interest group is people, not just American people but all people; he’s for universal healthcare; against the war; against torture; for preserving social security; for helping those less fortunate; for conserving natural resources; for the constitution … I could go on and on
Bill Durston actually walks the walk unlike most people in Congress and I will do everything I can to help him.
Voting for Bill Durston is actually a vote for something as opposed to holding your nose and voting for the lesser of two evils
Bill Durston speaks for me
If anyone in NoCal wants to meet Bill, we are having a fundraiser for him on Friday, details here
New votes would be taken to determine who leads. I don’t expect we’d be able to remove them, only influence them.
I don’t think it is fair to blame Reid, Pelosi, or any other Democratic Politician. The Democratic voters are going to have to take responsibility for their voting.
No matter how much we talk about values and the founding fathers and constitutional principles here on progressive blogs, the logic of the Lesser of Two Evils is the only logic that prevails in the voting booth. Where a politician stands on issues; how they’ve voted in the past; which donors they are in bed with — none of that matters compared to winning more seats (of whatever type) from the Republicans.
The logic is logical, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t very unpleasant side effects. These side effects will likely kill our constitutional republic.
First, Democrats will elect and re-elect people who are clearly not progressive, or even willing to uphold their oaths of office. So there’s little reason for hand-wringing when they vote for whatever their corporate sponsors want.
Second, Democratic politicians know that no matter how many letters, e-mails, faxes, or phone calls you send their way, when you get into the voting booth, you will vote for them.
On the other hand, if they piss off their corporate sponsors, or the MSM, or the Party establishment, they know there will be consequences that can seriously hurt their re-election chances.
As long as the Democratic Party can take your vote for granted, you have no power over their policy. Put the other way, if you want to be powerful enough to make the Dems do what you think they should be doing, then you need to make them need your goodwill, and you need to be able to deliver consequences upon them if they screw up. As an absolute bare minimum, if you feel they have not honored their oath to defend the constitution, then you must not vote for them.
A tall order, I know. Almost impossible to succeed at.
But I can guarantee that voting for the Democrat no matter what, has an even smaller chance of working.
Barry
Perhaps we can prevail through procedure….
From packerland progressive’s diary on Kos…
In this diary from January of last year, Kagro X highlighted the unique way the House considers legislation, making frequent use of “special rules” which render it procedurally “in order” to debate and vote on a bill.
I note, as an aside, that there are other ways to get the House to consider and vote on a piece of legislation, but generally they’re either only going to apply only to noncontroversial matters, or they’re going to be extremely cumbersome, requiring extraordinary commitment and several weeks’ delay to work — if you’re interested, see this page on Representative Slaughter’s committee website, describing mechanisms such as unanimous consent, the “suspension calendar,” and discharge petitions.
The important thing to focus on here is this:
The House can not pass telecom immunity in the next two weeks without first agreeing to a special rule.
It’s important enough to say it again:
The House can not pass telecom immunity in the next two weeks without first agreeing to a special rule.
Remember this, as you read increasingly depressing news accounts about how the Democratic Leadership is “optimistic” that they’ll work out a “compromise” this week and vote on it either this week or next, before leaving town for 2 weeks on March 14:
The House can not pass telecom immunity in the next two weeks without first agreeing to a special rule.
Remember that, and also this: a special rule can not get to the floor for approval without the blessing of the Rules Committee — of which Representative Louise Slaughter is the chair.
I am struggling with link to the diary. Apologies.
Can Louise Slaughter stop the Slaughter of the Constitution?
for me, the real eye opener was that first weekend in august when most of you were at yearly kos. for those of us who watched the house’s song and dance – what we saw was obviously a staged act designed to cave while pretending to fight.
and when you-all came back from yearly kos, i freaked out. i was being given “explanations” that were clearly contradicted by the actual events. i can only think that the “explanations” (really lies) came from people like pelosi… at least that is my best guess. it took a while for the facts to come out… and even so, i’m pretty sure that most people don’t know the depth of deceit that was practiced on us by our dem house leadership.
but for those of us who watched it happen, it’s been clear that pelosi et al are not to be trusted AT ALL.
John,
Thanks, I’ll try to make it.
Kevin
Pretty good. ;0) Is that a play off “The Scarlet Pimpernel”?
none of it was for naught. and i’m grateful for what dodd did. but’s let’s be clear – he did not filibuster as he promised he would.
Second, Democratic politicians know that no matter how many letters, e-mails, faxes, or phone calls you send their way, when you get into the voting booth, you will vote for them………..
it was ever thus
oops! :)
What the Democrats have learned from Bush is that looking stupid is not enough. What is needed is to look as stupid as possible. In this, they have succeeded admirably. Way to go, guys.
I don’t see how at this point it matters anymore who is. Collectively, with very few exceptions like Feingold, Dodd, and Kennedy in the Senate they have licked every square inch of Bush’s ass at every critical vote.
I heard from a guy I have known a long time that he is consdering seriously running to unseat a Republican Senator and he is so much better and brighter that excites me. He knows how to run a campaign so he has a decent shot if he’s in. But after spending the energy I’ve spent with the help of here/EW/Cboldt and a lot of linked blogs to really follow FISA well it is really disheartening.
exactly who we need right about now
of course the rules committee can prevent it.
but i don’t think they will – they do what they are told to do or get booted off the committee.
p.s. my rep (jim mcgovern is on the rules committee)
Hmmmm…Tweety…why is McLobby fighting the old war…courting Hagee and such..instead of staying in the middle and winning California and everything else and beating the Democrats….
Because he’s OLD, bought, and paid for!!
President McFossil.
hahahahahahahahaha
presidenture?
LOL, i’m laughing as i’m crying.
is there an emoticon for that?
lol
i think fdl readers who are his age might object to that characterization.
McLame’s votes don’t make sense. It just doesn’t make sense. It must be Diebold.
I promise to read it Marilyn. Thanks.
Nothing so literary!
Green Eggs and Ham by Dr. Seuss!
FunnyD
Ooops. Well, they aren’t trying to become the world’s most powerful leader either.
Sincere apologies to anyone who is McCain’s age.
because he his NOT a progressive…his freakin IDEAS are old…that is what makes him OLD
look at Howard Zinn he is eternal
(((LS)))
i know your heart is in the right place, that’s why i thought you’d want to know.
p.s. i love sadlyyes’s explanation.
“Bob, I think Mazie is too! 8-)”
Hey, CTuttle, you get my special request message from Facebook?
Bob in HI
“if we aren’t doing anything wrong, what do we have to worry about?”
Define “wrong”.
Bob in HI
Good point
Doris Matsui (CA. CD-5) is on the Rules Committee
– and i’m grateful for what dodd did. but’s let’s be clear – he did not filibuster as he promised he would –
Expectations were elevated beyond what Senate procedure permits, anyway. That is, those who expected Dodd to hold up the works with extended speeches don’t understand how that device works (it’s useful in very limited circumstances, e.g., up against a recess or end of session).
But he certainly didn’t avail himself of ALL of the methods available to gum up the works. Not that this represents bad judgment, at some point, the weight of opposition is such that there is little value to fighting. Get the rationale for objection on the record, and let the majority make its error. Just because a majority agrees, doesn’t make a decision right – sometimes it just makes it the law of the jungle.
We’re in the era of the “protective state,” where the elites “take care” of the rubes, the rubes who endorse legislation through election.
– to really follow FISA well it is really disheartening –
FISA is just one more in a series of examples. It’s foolish to trust governments or politicians. They are damn good liars, cheats and thieves. The cream of the crop, as it were.
Greenwald wrote:
But he gave the answer earlier. The House is pissed that the Senate and WH tried to jam the bill down their throats. That sort of action is too strong and/or an obvious erosion of the principle (or illusion) of independent decision-making, and couldn’t be allowed to run without a fight.
Senator Rockefeller noted exactly this, a couple weeks ago when the House left town without taking up the bill, after the GOP (and WH) said “no frickin’ way” to an extension. Rockefeller said (this is my paraphrase, not a direct quote) “the House is pissed because we tried to jam this, it’s human nature. Give them time and an opportunity to save some face, they’ll come around and pass the Senate bill.”
No. I went to her blog one day, maybe 6 or more weeks ago, and it was there. Then a few weeks ago, nada. I’m bummed.
I don’t understand. I simply don’t understand, if something is good and if the President is willing to sign a bill which this Senator in his conscience feels is right, and it takes 15 days to do it, what the minority leader needs to understand–and he served in the House. I am sure he understands that they have now been jammed twice. They have been jammed. There is something called human nature, and it is not illegal to talk about human nature on the floor of the Senate. They have been jammed. They have been pushed down to a 2-day period or a 3-day period when they had to make a decision. They resent that. But if they were given a period of time, they would come, in my judgment, to where we are, and the bill would go to the President and he would sign it. …
Fifteen days. We are off for a week, so maybe it has to be 25 days. I don’t know. I don’t care about that. We could have the same bill on this floor from the House. I am convinced of it. It is human nature. Give them a chance to have a grudge. I am going to meet with the chairman tomorrow. Let him rip into me for not giving the House an adequate chance for the second time to discuss this matter. But I am absolutely convinced that we could have that bill on the floor in this body and pass it and send it to the President. Why they don’t want to do that, I do not know.
Senator Rockefeller – Feb 14, 2008 (Page 1037)
i think dodd ought to have objected to the UC on jan 31, if he was to fulfill his promise.
that said, i’m very grateful for what he did do, and i don’t regret sending his campaign two (sadly small) contributions.
but i’m not going to pretend he did something that he didn’t do.
exactly right and very well said, imo.
and it goes double for the politicians of our own party, because they the ones who will try to fool us – the Rs don’t care what we think, they’re too busy trying to fool their own proles.
– and it goes double for the politicians of our own party, because they the ones who will try to fool us –
I’m sure the Constitution was framed in a way so as to thwart the formation of political parties, but those widgets were amended out. There were warnings aplenty about permitting power to coalesce in a central location, too, but the people didn’t pay attention to that either.
Sorry to take so long to respond, Wordsmith. She’s probably sick and tired of blogging, no? We all get like that sometimes and need a break to regroup ourselves.
NO kidding make it stop.
Ok. Plan of action.
Every Dem who voted to gut our civil liberties gets targeted in the primary.
Particularly if there is no Dem winner tonight, pin down the candidates now. Make both of them promise to spearhead the repeal of this shockingly disgusting legislation next year. First thing they do in office, first 100 days in office. Repeal the retroactive immunity. Period.
There should be no waffling on this and no triangulation. This is nothing less than fulfiling their oath of office.
I received a letter yesterday from my Brooklyn, NY congressman Anthony Weiner dated February 26, 2008.
The entire letter is as follows:
Thank you for writing me regarding your opposition to retroactive amnesty for telecommunication companies under investigation for illegal wiretapping. Please excuse the tardiness of this response. I agree with you.
Both the Bush Administration and these telecommunications companies knew that wiretapping without a warrant through FISA was illegal. Now they are being given protection from the constitution, a move which not only hurts the investigation, but stands in the face of justice. Know that from my seat on the House Judiciary Committee I have fought against allowing immunity to these companies, and I have voted against it when it came before me. Please be assured of my continued support on this important matter.
Again, thank you for contacting me. Please do no hesitate to be in touch in the future on this or any other issue of concern.
Sincerely,
Anthony D. Weiner
Member of Congress