Sunday’s New York Times lead editorial reminds us that President Bush has promised to veto the bill that limits all US agencies, including the CIA, to the interrogation practices in the Army Field Manual. Congress had previously outlawed waterboarding and other inhumane treatment by codifying the Army Field Manual’s limits, but Attorney General Mukasey’s flexible moral standards found this direction insufficient to declare waterboarding torture and thus illegal under US treaty law.
It is disgraceful that Congress had to pass a statute to remedy Mukasey’s lack of moral character, and even more disgraceful that we now find the President threatening to veto the bill, solely because it might require his own Attorney General to investigate the Administration’s complicity in torture. By the way, John McCain voted against this bill. [h/t JimWhite] From the editorial:
Mr. Bush is planning to veto a law that would require the C.I.A. and all the intelligence services to abide by the restrictions on holding and interrogating prisoners contained in the United States Army Field Manual. Mr. Bush says the Army rules are too restrictive.
What are these burdens? In addition to a blanket prohibition of torture, the manual specifically bans:
– Forcing a prisoner to be naked, perform sexual acts or pose in a sexual manner.
– Placing hoods or sacks over the head of a prisoner, and using duct tape over the eyes.
– Applying beatings, electric shocks, burns or other forms of physical pain.
– Waterboarding.
– Using military working dogs.
– Inducing hypothermia or heat injury.
– Conducting mock executions.
– Depriving a prisoner of necessary food, water or medical care.
The President’s intentions also come at a time when he has been lecturing the Democratic candidates about America’s moral obligations not to unilaterally abrogate US treaties, such as NAFTA, which are, under the Constitution, the "supreme law of the land."
Never mind that neither candidate had called for unilateral abrogation. It is simply this President’s style to project qualities on others that he exemplifies when he holds his largely reality free press conferences. From Thursday’s Bush press conference:
At a time when both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama have been critical of the North American Free Trade Agreement, which they say has cost jobs in places like Ohio, Mr. Bush said bluntly that a unilateral withdrawal from the treaty “is not good policy.”
Mr. Bush then added that if the Congress chose not to ratify the next free-trade agreement with Columbia, on the grounds of Columbia’s alleged human rights violations, they would "encourage false populism in our neighborhood." I guess that means the US should not be concerned with human rights violations, because that can lead to the evils of populist sentiment. What is this embarrassment of a President talking about?
It might be helpful to remind the President that the United States is a signatory to numerous international treaties relating to human rights, such as the Geneva Conventions and other treaties outlawing the use of torture and the mistreatment of detainees captured in war situations. The US has conducted war crimes trials of those accused of violating these principles in prior conflicts. Now, as emptywheel notes, it can’t seem to conduct tribunals without compromising those same treaties.
Because the President and his men seem to have such a difficult time grasping the principle Mr. Bush is mouthing about the sanctity of America’s treaty obligations, it might be useful to show them some pictures. WARNING: The investigators at Wired have released dozens of additional photos of the human rights violations by US forces at Abu Ghraib. Take some time to view these pictures. And then recall that no senior US military or CIA official, and no responsible civilian in the Pentagon or Bush White House has ever been held criminally responsible for what happened.
Spencer Ackerman reports on how the CIA was largely in the dark on interrogations. (h/t cbl2) Crooks & Liars has more.



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Why did he unilaterally walk away from our international missile treaties? Could be the recent Russian aggressive tactics came as a response to the naked aggression of our Neo-Con regime? Naw, Russians are evil. Can we get a list of good treaties and good people? How conservative is conservative enough? When does it become a blind obsession? Who is profiting in all of this? Or is that a state secret? The questions just keep coming. Keep the faith baby.
“Colombia”
I was just gonna say: Geneva.
Irony keeps drunk-dialing the White House, but nobody’s answering.
LOL.
hey, Scarecrow, typo — agenices sh be agencies [2nd line]
love that line.
thanks
Impeach. Indict. Imprison.
It’s not too late.
Got it. Thanks.
What was the first thing Bush did back in 2001? Oh that’s right. First, he made sure Clinton’s & his Daddy’s records were sealed, then he worked on spitting on the Kyoto Treaty, rolled back tons of environmental policies as a result, and took America’s signature off the International Criminal Court (now why the hell would he do that? Oh that’s right. 9/11 was coming and he was just lining his ducks up. Bastard.).
Chuck Schumers auto reply to my email went into junk.
That too made me smile.
Good Morning Scarecrow,
if anyone needs a lecture, it’s George W. Bush. (not exactly an earth shattering revelation I know.)
EPU’d from downstairs and relevant here … add the OST to the list (check out Article 4).
(In all fairness I do think there will need to be modifications when ordinary people begin living and working in space – can you own your own home on the moon? I’ll be happy to keep the weapons prohibition in there for as long as possible though)
The AF has been wanting this for a long time … as several others have pointed out it’s the next big gravy train. While we have some legitimate defense needs there, it’s totally irresponsible (not to mention extravagant) to develop offensive space weapons in violation of at least one and probably multiple treaties. (more GD pieces of paper I guess)
Work’s rather busy, so I’ve just been lurking… back to that now.
I just sent Glenn Greenwald’s article to my Congressman. House “Leadership”. What an oxymoron.
Thanks Scarecrow. Great post, as per usual.
FYI, maybe this will help us get some traction.
Was torture part of the pep talk?
Morning Crow and crew,
There’s a person who’s supposed to be an adult to our child president,Right Nancy.
Instead she’s like some teenage hussy babysitter who tells the kids” I ain’t going to make you do anything” then spends the night in front of the make up mirror telling herself just how beautiful she looks in the Mc Mansion make up mirror. Well Nancy the adults are coming home on 3-19-08 and they might not be happy with the job you’ve been doing.
isn’t that bizarre?
one of the most devastating things this president has done was to to our integrity, our ability to not only broker treaties for ourselves but to be considered a fair broker internationally, was unilaterally redefine terms in our treaties, doing so without congress, without the other signatory’s who were principles in those treaties, without the supreme court
he has taken our two centuries of good will and turned it into a vile hatred and complete disgusted distrust for our country
that hatred will be payed by my children, your children, our grandchildren and theirs, for generations untold at a price unknown
how on earth could one president do this much damage when we were SUPPOSED to have checks and balances SPECIFICALLY placed in power by the founding fathers FOR JUST THIS REASON
we have a despot in office, he has not been elected, he was installed in a silent coup and we are under siege
if there were a novel written describing the events that transpired, it would be laughed at as total trash, not one person would be able to imagine these maniacs from the PNAC would have such and easy time overthrowing our government and putting in it’s place the fascist despots that are governing this country
And then there’s the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague. Not too late for that, either.
Who knew that the Constitution was conditional before the worst president ever took office.
It is way past time to let him know that the Constitution is NOT conditional. Treaties ratified by congress are law. Period. There is no gray area. I’m with Smgumby. Impeach. Indict. Imprison. Rinse and repeat for all of the felons in the current executive branch.
I’m so very sick of Mr. Bush.
Coffee is ready. Hold out your cups.
“It is disgraceful that Congress had to pass a statute to remedy Mukasey’s lack of moral character, and even more disgraceful that we now find the President threatening to veto the bill, solely because it might require his own Attorney General to investigate the Administration’s complicity in torture.”
Exhibit “A” as to why Mukasey never should’ve been confirmed in the first place.
How is it that we, the DFH’s, knew this was coming but the Democratic “leadership” in the Senate didn’t.
We just launched a missile at Somalia:
http://www.reuters.com/article…..5620080303
I hate the Bush Regime.
but they did know it, and they were counting on it
if mukasey were to acknowledge that water torure is what everyone knows it is, torture, then congress would be obligated to prosecute for war crimes
and they don’t want to
EPUd
OT
I am more and more convinced that the telcom immunity deal is continue the cover up of the people in the US government involved in the events of 911.
Getting at this sort of evidence which has not been destroyed will be the smoking gun that we were not attacked by AQ and unravel the entire myth and the fact that the unthinkable has occurred in this nation. There has been a coup d’etat and those in congress are well aware that they no longer have any power. Our congressional leaders are participating in kabuki because they know enough about how far these people can, have and will go for their agenda.
They can pull the strings of the FBI, CIA, DIA, military like puppets on a string. They have packed the government with ideological sycophants, or not staffed posts to render it ineffectual at serving the people. They have engineered massive transfer of wealth from the people to the very wealthy, and taken away many of our 4th amendment rights, habeous corpus, and demonstrated that we can torture and there are those who will do it willingly. They proved that they could steal an election “legally” and that no one is able to challenge this in court or anywhere else. They have put themselves above the law, refusing to testify under oath and blocked ever effort at justice and then offering pardons or commutations to block the facts from surfacing of their involvement in 911.
It’s not just the lying based on the attacks of 911 which got us into the war. It is the fact that 911 was not what the conspiracy they told us it was and others were involved. They stalled any investigation for 14 months then tried to pack the commission with friends who would cover for them and they had all the forensic evidence removed from the crime scenes or destroyed. They have suppressed hundreds of videos taken on the day at airports which would show who boarded those planes, what actually hit the pentagon. Whenever some legal proceeding threatens to reveal a bit of their conspiracy and coup they declare “state secrets”.
They don’t have to blackmail congressional leaders. These leaders know that they have no real power anymore. What else can they do? Denounce the coup? They would be called nuts and taken away to the loony bin. Do they possess specific evidence of the coup? Maybe they don’t need it if the plotters have simply told them they did it and just play along because it can only get worse if you make too much noise. So let’s make nice and pretend we have a democracy.
Meanwhile the coup advances its agenda of world domination, or total control of the wealth and power base. They have made private armies lawful getting around Posse Comitatus to wage war on citizens inside the country.
We have had a regime change of epic proportions and that is the secret that they are constantly trying to keep under wraps while the kabuki goes on.
Wake up America.
Delurking drive-by…Sorry to be OT but I thought everyone would want to know that United Technologies (defense contractor!!) is trying to buy Diebold, maker of vote-counting equipment. Here’s a link: http://tinyurl.com/2pjd48
The plot thickens…
let me say something very important;l
we aquiesse to the president’s definition when we call water torture “water boarding ” instead of what it is
the word “water boarding” allows for the conversation, allows for someone to call it an “opinion” that the practice is torture
instead, we need to call it wat it is, it is NOT waterboarding
it is;
“forcible pouring water down a persons’ throat and closing all access to air and drowing them to the point of near death yet still concous, then reviving them”
we are drowning, reviving these people, we are NOT “waterboarding” because that word is far too sublime for conversation
Perhaps a couple of folks with some serious access to camera-time might give these some greater visibility. Yes, Senators Obama and Clinton, I’m talking about you.
Wouldn’t you just love to hear either one of them say something like this:
The eyes of the media are on Obama and Clinton for the next two days, and the two of them are dueling for all the free-media attention they can get. If either one wants to grab those cameras and not let go of them, this kind of a speech just might do it.
It also is very important to point out that John McCain, himself a victim of torture while a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, abandoned his campaign and all moral principle to return to Washington to vote against this bill in the Senate. He is so desperate to be President that he has sold out all of the ideals that should be a very part of his soul, and I believe that this is his biggest moral failing of all. Why isn’t this a bigger story?
if clinton took that lead, she would overtake obama
it wouldn’t even be close
omigod, Scarecrow, you warned us about those pictures. I can’t believe what I see. The cheery girl thumbs up!?! How could that sight ever ever bring a smile? But like the townspeople near Buchenwald were forced to look that horror in the face, we too must be forced to look at the horrors done in our name.
Lets all read along.
Excellent statement, Peterr. Perhaps we need a joint statement from the candidates.
Fan-damn-tastic summary.
Lovely…
Thanks
Ah, thanks for the reminder about McCain. I’ll add that.
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..2/17/7110/
OT- Sen. Clinton talked yesterday about here energy plan, and even as an Obama fan I was impressed.
She spoke of the fact that aggressively ramping up mpg standards and alternative energy sources would immediately bring gas prices down, which is true.
Coupled with troop reductions in Iraq and less saber rattling in the Middle East (which would shake the speculators out of the oil trading pits) we might have a chance at less than $2.50/gal gas again.
I still don’t think she can win the nomination, but maybe her ideas will find their way into the Democratic platform.
Good, we can have the military industrial complex officially running the vote counting. That should be helpful.
A joint statement would be powerful, but I’d be happy if just one of them made a big deal out of this.
Seriously, from a campaign strategy point of view, the first one of the two to hit this in a big way, with pictures and all, would dominate the press coverage and suck all the air out of their opponent’s campaign room. And with McCain voting with Bush on this, it turns St. John’s favorite issue — the war — and shoves it right back in his face.
I’m not going to hold my breath waiting, though. Unless Mark Penn has already been polling on this, Hillary isn’t going to do it. On the Obama side, they likely think that things are breaking his way as it is, so why change tactics and try something new?
*sigh*
But I’d love — absolutely without a doubt, I’d really love — to be wrong here, and have the two of them throw this in the face of Bush, McCain, and the GOP as hard as they can for the next 48 hours.
I blame DiFi and Mukasey’s BFF Chuckie Shumer for this.
Traitors.
No conflict there. Nope.
Anyone who wants to borrow that summary is welcome to it.
Use it for a letter to the editor. Send it to your member of Congress. Take it to work and bounce it off your coworkers.
And if you happen to be David Axelrod or Mark Penn, it’s yours for the taking. No charge.
Quick quiz.
Who said (allegedly) that the Constitution is just a “goddamn piece of paper”?
And we expect anyone affiliated with this administration to adhere to it?
“Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, uh, you can’t get fooled again!”
From that infamous wordsmith, Dubya.
Guess all of you have seen that the flap about Obama’s comments on NAFTA has reopened with some Canadian document showing up…..CNN has been going on about it just the last little bit; I ain’t goin’ anywhere near scar’s place to check on what’s being said there. Expect all hell to break out on the campaign trail. :-(
Hypocrisy is not unique to democracy, it’s just heavily concentrated there.
Good Morning Scarecrow and firedogs,
An article by Spencer Ackerman of the new site Washington Independent (a long 1 pager)
all kinds of nuggets in there, not the least of which are comments from former interrogators – including those responsible for interrogating 4000 Germans and Itailians during WWII –
thrust of the article is how grossly unprepared CIA was/is for torture and interrogation in general.
oh, and there’s this:
but again, it’s worth the read just to hear from former interrogators
sample from study -
as I am still on comment but no link status, you can google -
CIA Largely in the Dark on Interrogation Tactics by Spencer Ackerman/Washington Independent
the Educing Information study is pdf, but there is a link to synopsis in Ackerman’s post
p.s. neither Ackerman, the study’s authors, or this commenter buy in to the we can’t use it simply bec it doesn’t work hellhole :)
I am so damn tired of this FISA battle yet am willing to go down fighting.
Christy, its time to sound the bell for another round?
Thank you to all the firepups who inspire,analyse,and fight for “This Constitution for the United States of America”
I’m watching Morning Joe and wondering why all these Rethugs get a pass.
He aided and abetted the last seven years of destruction to this country and it’s constitution and look at him; slides out the side door to a cushy morning show gig where everything’s a joke.
Every thing they’ve touched has turned to sh*t, and instead of guilt or remorse it’s laughs all around.
Hell, he’s not even bothering to do the suit and tie thing anymore.
Jeans, a sweater and ridicule for anyone that doesn’t see the bogeyman around every corner.
It is difficult to not wish ill on Bush.
Here’s an article to go with my #40:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..rats_nafta
thanks for the tip on the Ackerman story. I’ve added the link.
So, at the end, the guy admits he didn’t do a good job summarizing the meeting and wasn’t authorized to share the details… but that’s not what gets reported.
A friend just emailed me a link to this fine Op-Ed in the Boston Globe, where McCain’s hypocrisy on the Intelligence Authorization Act vote is explained even further:
The entire column is a good read.
and while we’re at it, i want the people in the clinton administration who were complicit in the “extraordinary rendition program” and every congress critter who knew about it on the dock too.
you think senator clinton would make that promise? to hold people in bill clinton’s administration accountable – possibly even the president, who happens to be her husband?
talk about conflict of interest.
but i tell you one thing, if senator clinton were to come out with that statement – and mean it – i’d be a strong supporter.
his ambition is so great it has infested his very soul
What are Obamas ideas?
On most issues they are almost the same.
I don’t know what these candidates will do. But the news of the imminent veto could easily be seen by both campaigns as an opportunity to criticize both Bush and McCain — I think it’s very possible they’ll use that. Perhaps some e-mails/letters to the respective campaigns would be timely?
What soul?
He’s gone from denouncing “agents of intolerance” to embracing John Hagee.
He’s a victim of torture advocating we torture our prisoners.
He has a son in Iraq but votes in favor of policies that make our troops even larger targets.
He cultivates his “maverick”, independent image while his campaign is run by lobbyists who conduct their business while traveling on his bus.
He is violating the campaign finance law that bears his name.
OT to mods / techs –
is there a script you have running that is causing my old imac to choke? :(
Wayne Slater is up on CSPAN 1, talking about Texas delegates.
he wrote Bush’s Brain
Get a PC
^_-
I’d love to watch, but gotta run. Many chores today. I hope to be back online this afternoon.
When this happens, I’ll be “really proud” of my country again.
Please digg Scarecrow’s post,
and pass it around through reddit and, well …there’s a little share button ^up at the end of the post with most of them.
r u saying a 6 year old bottom of the line pc would be doing any better? :-)
Actually it is a disgrace that the Senate ever confirmed Mukasey. Good job, Feinstein and Schumer! Mukasey’s evasive responses during his confirmation hearings signaled that he would behave exactly as he has and led me to propound my Mukasey Principle that by definition nobody who chose to work for this Administration could have a shred of integrity. Mukasey is certainly not the first to fit this bill but he is a poster child for it.
What actual symptoms are you seeing, selise? I’m not a Mac person, but someone who is might be able to advise you if you were a little more specific.
Well, I’ve mailed all the Democratic Congresspeople. If I wasn’t on the “No fly” list before, I’m sure I am now. I am finding it increasingly difficult to maintain anything resembling a respectful tone with these folks.
i’ll take some coffee, please ;)
There is an article at the NYT by of all people Elizabeth Bumiller on McCain’s “inconsistencies”. It’s not a bad start but there is no mention of his current dance around campaign finance laws or of his courting of the religious (Hagee) right.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03…..ref=slogin
Running Linux – maybe
My knee-jerk reaction to the mac user reaction to every micro$oft-related problem
Mukasey’s “new legal doctrine” as coined by Delahunt, means constitutional usurpation. What makes it more gross is the failure to throw these criminals in jail, by the limped dicked politicians, whose lack of testicles enables this executive’s criminal behavior, under color of law and war!!
I delete:
/Library/Caches
/System/Library/Caches
/Users/YOURUSER/Library/Caches
/Users/YOURUSER/Library/Caches
Then reboot.
Our missiles in Somalia, Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan border areas….. where next you ask?
Somewhere with brown people who are standing in the way of getting to our oil.
We are a rogue nation.
;(
Impeach and try alla them for war crimes/treason/lies.
thank you tw3k!!!
i should delete everything in all the caches?
just want to make sure before i do something stupid… that seems extreme for a problem i only have when my i have fdl open in safari.
other websites are fine, other imac functions seem fine.
sometimes, when it gets really bad, safari gives me an error msg that there is an fdl script that is causing a problem and do i want to kill it? after i choose “yes” things are much better. that did not happen today though.
p.s. on my ibook now and i have no problem… but there’s other stuff (besides reading fdl *g*) i want to be using my ibook for today.
yup, everything in those Cache dirs.
It’s not really that radical. the os will just create new caches as needed and you can even get a small speed bump by clearing out those caches every once in a while.
Sounds like it won’t effect you safari/fdl problem tho.
I get the same error as you if I do some cpu intensive work. The scripts on fdl seem to be a little intensive for old machines.
that is what i feared.
it even happens when the only thing i have running is safari and i only have a few tabs (6?) open in one browser window.
well, i’ll go ahead and delete all the cache folders… maybe that will give me enough of a speed bump to make it possible for me to use the imac for browsing while i’m trying to do other stuff on my ibook. will let you know how it goes.
thanks again tw3k – really, really appreciate your always generous help.
always fun to talk mac :D
but i thought you were running linux on a pc? or am i wrong on that?
i’ve been angsting about getting a new imac since fall… everytime something like this happens, i wonder if i shouldn’t put it off any longer.
delurking to share this. i almost spit up my morning coffee.
Paicoma man investigated for threatening Bush
I guess it’s not funny this is being investigated, but I like how he sticks to his guns
yup, on linux pc. it’s only 450mhz so i run into the same error.
Man, i love to get a new mac. I doubt i’ll go back tho cause of the cost.
But if your going to get mac, do it after mac world and don’t look back! ;)
tw3k – back up on my imac. i’ll just have to see how it goes…. not too bad at the moment. fingers crossed. i hope this isn’t a problem that is affecting other potential fdl readers who have older computers.
i hear you…. it’s the $$ that are keeping me from getting a new imac (at least until this one craps out). but no way i could change OS now… even if i wanted to. too much invested ($ and time) in third party apps.
thanks again tw3k!
It might affect those with older machines but then you and i probably have open 4-6 tabs with the same script running in each tab.
You can keep those apps running on your current hardware. You’d be surprised at how much software there is out there for linux and really has become much friendlier as a desktop environment.
I always enjoy talking to you selise, let me know how it goes :)
Bush’s sanctimony knows know limits…unlike his intelligence. His integrity. His adherence to the Constitutional and international law. His veto pen. Etc…
http://newsprism.wordpress.com
Good day,
All I can say is how relieved I am that deputy dog is steady on the case, a great burden has been lifted from my shoulders.
Perhaps someone such as yourself is a bit ahead of the curve, but the general public will be along shortly.
Question is, what happens then. What do we do when the government remains unresponsive to our needs, to the law and even to common decency? Where does this story take us?