It was disconcerting, to say the least, to hear Sylvestre Reyes on CNN this morning talking about retroactive telecom immunity:
Reyes, D-Texas, said he was open to that possibility after receiving documents from the Bush administration and speaking to the companies about the industry's role in the government spy program.
"We are talking to the representatives from the communications companies because if we're going to give them blanket immunity, we want to know and we want to understand what it is that we're giving immunity for," he said. "I have an open mind about that."
Regarding a compromise deal, Reyes said: "We think we're very close, probably within the next week we'll be able to hopefully bring it to a vote."
I hope before the Democrats decide to cave on this they think very carefully about the message they're sending in the wake of huge ad buys against their freshmen by a GOP attack outfit. Jim Klobuchar writes about the ads taken out in Minnesota against Tim Walz (and Walz's admirable response):
His supporters are responding with their dollars. But the question he raises hangs, ominous and taunting, over the 2008 elections.
How much have the voters actually learned from the corruptions of decency and truth that emasculated John Kerry’s campaign in 2004?
One thing we probably haven’t learned is how easily it was done. The architects of it were shadowy surrogates of the real political hatchetmen and corporate pirates who brought the Bush government to power. In the middle of it some credulous Democrats actually asked George Bush to disavow the Swift Boat fraud.
Were they serious?
If House Democrats back down now, it worked. And it will keep happening, again and again and again.
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Fitz!
So frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrr. They must be truly stupid or blackmailed. I just don’t get it!!
They’re selling us out!
To quote a “Jane-ism”…”just shoot me”
I hope they think very carefully about Al Wynn.
I guess the Dems are sick of their jobs and want to be replaced. Boneheads.
guess that spine is weakening
THis is why it’s so VERY important to mount as many alternatives to incumbent blue dogs like Feinstein and Tauscher. They NEED to be removed from office.
i can’t for the life of me see any reason for the house to bring up fisa legislation again. they passed a bill. the senate passed a bill. reid called for a conference committee. mcconnell blocked it.
let the republicans own the fact that they are obstructing the legislation.
Not to mention ..well OK let’s mention it.. The illegal Executive Branch!
I don’t get it either. Have they been blackmailed from these illegal wiretaps without a warrant the Bush Regime has used since February 2001? I’m starting to think so.
The Dem leadersheep want to split the FISA bill into a two bills with Immunity as a stand alone bill, ‘to provide political cover for the Dems that object…’ 8-(
I live in Cali and i’m all about getting rid of Feinstein.
there is another interpretation - that there never was any spine, maybe it was all an elaborate game to convince us they were “fighting” when all along they were planning to cave.
Or maybe….is it possible Reyes is just talking out of his butt, meaning, he wants his constituents who support him that George will get his way, even though he knows he probably won’t? Not sure. Could be, but then again, the republicans keep changing their spots, so it’s difficult to read them most days.
Just a quick thanks for the onion bread/cracker recipe. I did find it the following morning.
Well, now, am I mistaken or did Wilkes (MSM) get the contract to install stuff in the Congressional buildings….I’m sure I didn’t dream that…they had some kind of contract….I guarantee you they (someone) knows everything…remember, Martin Luther King was spied on by Hoover in his bedroom….these people are even worse.
i am so tired of them selling us out and being able to only count on a few select dems.
Something is going on and I’m pretty sure the Democrats haven’t been guaranteed 72 Virgins after their deaths for them to keep doing the wrong thing. ;-)
As a part of my raw lifestyle, I focus on the positive hence my belief that there was a spine. The alternative you provide, while true, messes with my chakras too much *g*
Don’t count on a Dem congress after November. I predict that (maybe) a Dem POTUS might exist, but without the support of a Dem congress because of the miserable job they have done this past year.
Vote Every Bum Out! VEBO!!!!
Absolute F*ckery…
Thanks for the link to the Jim Klobuchar article. He and the Twin Cities Daily Planet are good example of what seems to be a trend here in Minnesota, writers who lost their jobs at the Minneapolis Star-Tribune or St Paul Pioneer Press are turning up online. The other one I’ve started reading regularly is MinnPost.com.
So I was wondering, is this going on in other cities? Are local journalists who were fired when the main paper cuts back on writers turning to the internet to do their own reporting? At least from here, it looks like a good thing. The online papers are more than a match for the Minneapolis or St Paul paper in their coverage of local events.
Maybe not after their deaths…maybe now…*g*
the manipulation of the process was so blatant in august, that they had to do their cave while most of the bloggers were at yearly kos.
since then the kabuki has gotten much better - but it’s still kabuki.
their goal is to produce better kabuki - so that we will be fooled.
our goal must be to see through their bs. if we do, then they will learn that the only way to please us is with legislation. if we fall for their fake theatrics, they will learn that is all it takes to placate us.
we are going to have to be observant as hell.
Thus so far, my congresswoman has been awesome, no complaints here and the same goes for ONE of my senators.
Good gawd, you’re probably right! Eeek.
Where is that Larry Flynt stuff anyway…
Maybe the Admin has “carnal knowledge”….
Amen, M’dear! An easy fix is to not pass anything…! Punt it to the next congress/administration…! *g*
when it comes to actual legislation, reyes and conyers have not been the good guys on this. do NOT give them the benefit of the doubt. they have earned our skepticism.
sorry, wobblybits.
I just can’t imagine that 9/11 forced the Democrats to suddenly hate the rule of law. Something else is going on behind the scenes and I have a feeling it won’t be divulged until Dick Cheney and George Bush are on their death beds.
Reyes, Reyes’ brother — Rodriguez, destroyed CIA tapes….
did one of your senators object to the senate’s UC on Jan 31?
….Mukasey….threats of prosecution or something…
Here’s Pelosi’s take…
that doesn’t explain what the dems did in 1996.
maybe they just don’t give a shit (not all of them, just most).
No need to apologize. I have set a goal to release my chakras (all 7) and one has to be careful of negative thoughts (in my case not to internalize them)
Like I said, your explanation may very well be the true story.
Disconcerting also, Jane, to see the way Hillary Clinton responds to Steve Kroft’s questioning tonight on 60 Minutes regarding whether she believes Obama when he says he is not and never has been a Muslim.
My B.S. detector says the Clinton campaign is behind the email smear of Obama’s religion. (For now. Can’t speak for the general election of course.)
And Hillary’s deniability is implausible.
this year has taught me to despise reid and pelosi.
Shit 60 minutes displaying the anti-”demonstrator” personal weapon….look out…
UC?
i would love to have another explanation that fits the evidence. but i haven’t been able to find one.
… and my commitment is to the true, as best as i am able.
So Pelosi’s saying they will cave as usual, oh, but they’ll talk about it after.
More B.S. More implausible deniability of what politicians are doing.
Is there some kind of epidemic going around The Village, or what?
sorry, unanimous consent agreement. in this case the one on jan 31 which was when all the senators caved on fisa (including, sad to say dodd)
The temporary halt on the FISA bill was to make
sure Pelosi comes out of the March 4th primary in her district
not any less weakened… I was never fooled by their so-called tough stance against granting immunity to the telecoms…leopards never changed their spots…
Shit…they are showing the weapon being used against “demonstrators” carrying signs saying “world peace” and “love for all”….
Mofos!!!!!!!!!!!
It is a painful beam. I’m already totally pissed, now I’m doubly totally pissed!!!
I agree, sorry that wasn’t Pelosi, but, you get the gist… Here’s the Repug response from yesterday’s LA Times story…
I watched Reyes this morning, and it made me sick. Then when Wolf got Blount on later, he misrepresented what Reyes said, and it made me sicker. The MSM does not have a clue on this telecom immunity, therefore the public has no idea what is at stake.
The NY Times had a good article on immunity today,(sorry no link), but they’re the only ones that I’ve noticed that describe it accurately.
Protesters are going to need metal shields to speak out against the war…unbelievable.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Feinstein did I don’t know if Boxer voted for it or not
I think ex-Congressman Ney was involved in a shady contract to a Israeli Co to upgrade the House com.
I’m sorry, I’m sorry….I’ll stop talking about the friggin’ anti-personnel raygun being demonstrated on 60 minutes that they are going to use against anyone they want to make STFU!
Maybe they’ll use it against anyone who votes against immunity.
We are in an authoritarian dictatorship.
Amdocs?
there wasn’t a vote. there was just a proposed agreement. no one objected. that’s why none of them are guiltless.
no need to stop. it has me worried too.
I’m outraged and screaming!! Can you hear me from Texas!!! Ahhhhhhhgggggg!!!
Selise, thanks so much for the link. It’s very disappointing about what the Democrats were doing back in the 1990’s, but they did have good company on the republic side too. What I don’t understand, if all of this is perfectly legal, then why is Bush freaking about the telecom companies then? To me it makes sense that there were still safeguards in place (no matter what the Democrats did during the 1990’s) and Georgie is not abiding by them. Of course, it’s the warrant-issue that is the problem. I don’t think the Democrats in the 1990’s wanted Clinton illegally wiretapping citizens without a warrant. Right?
gotcha
If the House Democrats back down now, how long will it be (or should it be) before we ask “Does this government represent us, We the People, or does it represent the very thing that the Founders warned us against? An imperial, unresponsive and dictatorial ruling class driven which deserving of removal from power, by any means prescribed by the Constition and precedents of the Founding Fathers.
Is there any doubt that we are approaching a time where we don’t matter any more? We send so-called “representatives” like Silvestre Reyes to Congress and he (and many many more, starting with Nancy Pelosi) sell us down the river for 30 pieces of silver and tickets to the Nationals games.
Sick, it makes me.
well, tomorrow morning i’m going to make some phone calls. first up on my list are pelosi, reyes and conyers to tell their office staff that they aren’t fooling us with their bs kabuki. if they want to stop immunity, they can.
next up i’m gonna call holt’s office (one of the good guys on this) to ask if he’s planning to work with the progressive caucus to block immunity.
Rashes and blisters…okay on any part of the body…oh great…Fuck you W.
Good idea. Bastids!!
What is wrong with these people!!!????
Go Cindy Sheehan!!!
This is our country…it feels like another planet these days.
That is the heart of the problem, why do they need Immunity if they’d done nothing illegal…? WTF?
I, for one am weary of the tired canard that our ‘Senators’ and ‘Congresspersons’ are being ‘BLACKMAILED’.
Clearly, ‘they’ do not see things the ‘way’ ‘we’ do.
For those who think otherwise, might I ask you this? Were someone close to you betraying you on a regular basis, would you continue to believe in them? How long a time would suffice before you would have had enough? In abusive relationships, it is the co-dependency which perpetuates the downward spiral of destruction and abuse.
Since ‘everybody’ is being blackmailed, may we expect that any will admit to it once Bush $ Company finally leave?
If they would be ‘ashamed’ to admit to any such thing then why should they tolerate it now? Unless we are to believe Bush $ Co. so powerful as to frighten each and every single member of Congress sufficiently to obtain their silence for life, in which case why think that he would ever leave,
what are we to think?
If these members of Congress are so timid as we would have to think them to be to warrant our sad fairy-tale of woeful coercion, then of course they will capitualate and thereby, frankly, aren’t worth a damn to the rest of us.
In a way it is rather touching to believe that ‘our’ Senators and Congresspersons would do the ‘right’ thing if only they weren’t so frightened for themselves, their families and their nation.
I simply don’t need to ‘go there’ to determine that ‘other’ considerations inflate their sails and sustain their dreams (of glory or power or of being ‘loved’ by everybody).
Simply put: their ‘interests’ are NOT our interests. Period.
Their lot is not with the ‘people’ or with the Constitution. Their ‘lot’ lies elsewhere, with the money and the power.
in the ’90s the Rs actually got the Ds to water down (and improve) the bad laws the Ds wanted to do.
the fact that the Ds are now, apparently successfully, portraying themselves as defenders of civil rights just goes to show how successful the Ds can be with the propaganda - when they want to be.
They want to “hurt” us. Hellllooooo!!!!
Or, just so he can find out what the telecoms have? And then the dems will vote against immunity? Dream?
The fix was in when Reyes was made chair of the Intelligence Committee instead of Rush Holt.
for anyone who’s forgotten how the Ds fucked us over on fisa (and then lied about it) in august last year, read marcy’s post “The Democratic Cave“
oops… so pissed was I that I neglected to edit. “…driven which deserving of removal from power…”
should be “driven by avarice and are deserving of removal from power…”
post editing was a nice feature … hint hint…LOL…
They’re trying to help you. They don’t want to have to shoot you.
:-)
that sure should have been a clue how seriously the house dems take intelligence. sadly, at that time i didn’t know either reyes or holt.
like i said, the past year has taught me a lot - and they’ve painful lessons in misplaced trust.
I’m hoping what Flynt has is on McCain, and that he’s saving it for late October. The NYT piece fed my theory…
You’d think George Bush would be saying, “Hey! The Democrats back in the 1990’s are the ones that gave me and all future presidents the go ahead!”, but he’s not. He’s a criminal.
Is it possible that we, who are members of the Democratic Party and who are not in government, are actually the ones who care about civil liberties? And once one gets into government, they lose it? LOL I’m starting to think so!
You might be right, because he said that he has the dirt on a Senator and that everyone would be surprised. Certainly not HRC.
Now, how not to turn “painful lessons in misplaced trust” into cynicism. It’s hard to look back at our delirium at our wins in ‘06 and our continuing deflation at the hands of our leaders and not be depressed and discouraged. I, for one, believe it’s blackmail, if not of our leaders themselves, then of their families.
The ol’ blonde lobbyist scandal! The corporate media would be unable to resist reporting it, even though it involves their precious St. John.
Now, can we have someone ask Obama and Clinton whether or not all the classified bullshit will stand (how much spying actually occured?, what was Dick Cheney’s energy task force really all about?) because if it doesn’t, then republicans will never win another national election.
Or Obama. :-)
Wilkes did a remodel/office furniture in Cheney’s office. Yeah.
Wahhhhh…I’m having a tantrum…wahhhh…Reyes, damn you!!!
It’s raining….so, I’m going to calm down…but don’t you f’ing dare threaten and plan shoot me in the butt with your damn anti-demonstrator raygun for using speaking my mind about your illegal war and your disgusting policies…that just ain’t right. Right? Thanks a lot, Raytheon. Bastids.
i was happy but not delirious. i can remember sitting at over breakfast in CT (since a bunch of us had gone there for Lamont’s campaign) saying that given our history of disappointment with the Ds, maybe we should wait an see how pelosi does before saying what a wonderful speaker she is. boy, did pounded into little bits.
got any evidence (or argument) to support that belief?
I know, but he’s not as stupid as McVain. He would never go out there and campaign and risk such a thing. Doesn’t make sense.
Wilkes probably set the charges for the fire that broke out next to Cheney’s office…! ;-)
shit. is it raytheon? my cousin works for them.
And the worst part? The biggest attack on our nation happened under a republican president, so the conclusion the Democrats keep telling themselves that they’re weak on terror…is bullshit.
Do we have to be their mothers by telling them that it was Georgie who was weak on terror and that’s why 9/11 occurred? *smacking forehead* I think we’re going to have to. *putting my boots on*
Yes it is Raytheon.
yep. i like your “git it done” attitude!
Bin Laden waited for a Republican Congress and a Repyblican President to launch the worst attacks on the US.
-G
I don’t get 60 Minutes for another 2 hours. I’m already so pissed. How about signs that read SHOOT ME IF YOU HATE THE CONSTITUTION.
Heh, they’re the father of the Patriot/Aegis missile systems…! I worked alongside many Raytheon personnel while stationed with a Patriot Battalion…!
I’m with you. I’ll be making calls as well. *sigh* But this is what we are supposed to be doing, holding our elected officials accountable.
My evidence is that Bush/Cheney have been spying on us with the help of the telecoms since before 9/ll. And by us I include congress. It is pretty hard with this absolutely law breaking and secretive administration to give any conclusive evidence. I do know that if they wanted they could check out any of my library records, search my house, and take me away without any evidence whatsoever. But, then, we’re the good guys and we require evidence before we jump to conclusions. Let’s just say that blackmail is the only thing that makes sense to me. I don’t believe that everyone in congress is on the take, the other conclusion that I could draw from their mind boggling capitulations.
Why thank you. ;-) I think we should down the phone system tomorrow. LOL
John - Dem
Robert - Dem
MLK - Dem
Wellstone ?? - Dem
JFK Jr. ?? - Dem
Anthrax:
Leahy - Dem
Daschle - Dem
McKulski (sp) Dem
Who are the Puke counterparts?
Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Georgie, Dickie…to name a few. I still think the handwriting of the Anthrax guy should be compared to the handwriting of the guy caught with ricin in a hotel in Las Vegas…just for shits and giggles of course. ;-)
Wait till you see it, you will be fit to be tied!!! At least I am…*g*
I mean…not…around…ahem…dayed.
Hear, here!
They don’t recognize no stinkin’ evidence….obviously.
You’ve been into the sauce today, haven’t you? LOL! Is “dayed” in place of “dead”? Believe me, I have a Maine accent and I sound like I’m drinking the sauce most days. ;-)
I’m expecting black helicopters momentarily…*g*
And isn’t Raytheon the outfit that got the big contract for uparmor of vehicles even though it was inferior?
Must have been something else, but there is this:
It was disconcerting, to say the least, to hear Sylvestre Reyes on CNN this morning talking about retroactive telecom immunity
I was watching when he said that too. It amazes me that the dems completely disregard what the wishes of the people who sent them to Washington are. I am sick of taxation with NO representation. We might as well be ruled by the King of England. It’s not like we have anymore say.
Yup, on the second part…dayed..is…well, dayed as a door nayel…
or maybe most of the Ds just agree with most of the Rs? would that not be more consistent with the evidence?
i think laura rozen, bmaz and kevin drum are most likely right.
and here’s the thing…. if it’s blackmail, there’s not much i can think of to do. but if i’m right, then there is something important we can do - and that’s not let the Ds get away with their attempts to fool us.
so, i’m gonna make the argument that unless you are sure it’s blackmail, it makes sense to act on the other possibilities.
dipthong.
when i’ve protested outside of one of ratheon’s big plants (for hiroshima day), i wondered if my cousin would drive by and recognize me. but turns out he was at another plant.
Selise, personally I think the Bush Regime has something on every key member of Congress. Their cute little program to spy started in February 2001, so they were already thinking this way. Ashcroft in the early summer that year stopped flying commercially and refused to tell the media why when asked. He knew commercial airliners were going to be used against us. They all knew as far as I’m concerned.
Your comment about the D’s agreeing with the R’s is a good observation, but to me, it makes me realize how much I detest the middle-of-the-roaders, because they just go along with the group, because they don’t have the balls to question or go against. Scary and I believe that’s another reason why the last eight years have been a head scratcher.
Now they want to shoot you in the butt!! *g*