Login HereTim Russert, in front of millions of Americans on Tuesday night, was quick to force Barack Obama to denounce Louis Farrakahn repeatedly until he worded it to Russert's satisfaction (evidently the words "unacceptable and reprehensible" didn't quite get the job done). Despite the fact that Obama never sought Farrakahn's endorsement, Russert felt this line of questioning was appropriate given Farrakhan's intolerant remarks about Jews in the past.
Okay, so let's accept Russert's argument that this is a fair line of inquiry. If that's the case, then why isn't he pressing John McCain about radical religious extremist uber-nut John Hagee?
Mr. McCain, who has been on a steady search for support among conservative and evangelical leaders who have long distrusted him, said he was “very honored'’ by Mr. Hagee’s endorsement. Asked about Mr. Hagee’s extensive writings on Armageddon and about what one questioner said was Mr. Hagee’s belief that the anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union, Mr. McCain responded that “all I can tell you is that I am very proud to have Pastor John Hagee’s support.'’
Notice the "been on a steady search" part. If Obama had actively sought Farrakhan's endorsement, his campaign would be over. Watch the YouTube above. McCain is downright proud of this Hagee endorsement.
Hagee was, if you'll remember, the guy who said that Hurricaine Katrina was God's revenge for a gay pride parade. He thinks war with Iran is essential so as to bring about Armageddon (when you can say bye-bye to the Jews). But as Glenn Greenwald says, he's a white Christian evangelical bigot, and therefore entitled to respect from the pundit class:
[W]hite evangelical Ministers are free to advocate American wars based on Biblical mandates, rant hatefully against Islam, and argue that natural disasters occur because God hates gay people. They are still fit for good company, an important and cherished part of our mainstream American political system. The entire GOP establishment is permitted actively to lavish them with praise and court their support without the slightest backlash or controversy. Both George Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sent formal greetings to the 2006 gathering of Hagee's group.
By contrast, black Muslim ministers like Farrakhan, or even black Christian ministers like Rev. Jeremiah Wright, are held with deep suspicion, even contempt. McCain is free to hug and praise the Rev. Hagees of the world, but Obama is required to prove over and over and over and over that he does not share the more extreme views of black Ministers.
How come Tim Russert -- in all the times he sits and chats with Lieberman, McCain and various high Bush officials -- never reads all of the inflammatory, disgusting, crazed "Rapture-is-Coming/ All-Jews-will-Burn/ Kill-All-Muslims/ Hurricanes-are-Punishment-against-Gays" pronouncements from John Hagee and James Dobson and Pat Robertson and demand that John McCain and George Bush and Joe Lieberman "denounce" those views and "reject" their support? What's the difference, exactly?
Enter...Bill Donahue.
Yes, Mr. Catholic League/Chocolate Jesus himself, who is (justifiably) miffed that Hagee refers to Catholics as "'The Great Whore,' an 'apostate church,' the 'anti-Christ,' and a 'false cult system.' Glenn Greenwald interviewed him yesterday:
Donohue was particularly insistent that McCain's behavior would severely harm his standing with Catholic voters -- the group of voters which Karl Rove maintains is the key group for enabling the GOP to win: "This thing seems to be to be blowing up in his face. McCain has stepped in it big time."
It's going to be hard for Russert to garner an audience for this quite as big as he did in a Presidential debate, so I'm going to make a suggestion here that I never thought I would...
(*sharp intake of breath*)
...he needs to have Bill Donohue on Meet the Press.
Fair is fair, right?
(And congratulations to Glenn Greenwald, who is getting kudos from both sides of the political spectrum on this. Big ups from the National Review.)
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Good for you, Jane. Keep hammering this point.
And BTW, when is Keith going to denounce Tweety & Pumpkin’ Head?
Greenwald is a national treasure. I would love to see Donahue vs. Hagee on Meet the Press.
Let’s hang Hagee around McCain’s neck, right next to George W. Bush, and keep him there!
Yeah I guess I could make popcorn at 9:00am Sunday.
Is that why the insurance companies won’t pay up?
The hypocrisy of these people knows no bounds. One rule for you and one rule for us and don’t you damn well question it.
I expect Russert will go to warp 3 during the ge and focus on Obama and Al Sharpton. Does Sharpton support Obama?
Liberal Media at work:
May change soon but for now no one considers it newsworthy.
Great post, Jane. We need to keep pressing this issue on all fronts.
How about McCain’s charitable contributions to his kids’ school.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....e-schools/
Race seems to play big in this as well… All the people Obama has had to denounce are all people of color. No one asks McCain, Bush or Lieberman to denounce other white people.
Just an observation from a long-time lurker, some-time commentor.
Looks like it already has changed. 201 results now - better.
? I get about 200 results.
Tim Russett is really a nasty little bully who hides behind his media gang bosses. It wasn’t a denoucement he wanted from Obama; he wanted Obama to cry uncle before the world to demean him publically. By doing this he puts that upperdy black in his place. Now let’s all the white folks see how pure McCain is by comparison.
I feel like I’m back in the South when someone cries, “A fight! A fight between a ………. Nothing has changed from old attitudes, they’ve just been updated to modern day style. The force that drive are the same. The costumes are different.
It’s hard for Obama to cry bigotry but I can. And, so I’ll call it what it is.
Ah yes. Sometimes “The Google” does that on a news search. Usually a refresh fixes it.
IOKIYAC (It’s OK if you’re a Christian). Farrakhan is Muslim.
It seems fruitless to expect intelligence from places where there seems to be no sign of it.
Tim Russert is a hack. McCain is a hack. Hacks are super comfortable in the company of hacks. In this case they speak the same language - the language of hypocrisy.
Hello Jane and gang again from Paris, France!
I’ll be back next Tuesday abut obviously I’m online from here. But Jane, you already know that…*g*
But Bellafonte and Sharpton aren’t Muslims…
Yes, at ths rate Obama will have to renounce every black person from Nat Turner to present who challenged the powers that be.
I KNOW IT’S A CONSPIRACY!!111!!11111!!!!!!
I can’t speak French but it is nice to see you, Biodun
They don’t need every one. Just a couple will do the trick and it can replay.
You know I was thinking that it was more of a “heel boy” as well but then I thought I was being too persnickity. I am glad you have reinforced my view. There is, I feel, an enormous race blow up before this is all over. I don’t mean riots and stuff I mean a mud slinging match by campaigns. I won’t be pretty.
Yea, Jane!!! Yea, Glennzilla!!!
You know, this might be the ticket for the McCain hatin’ wingers to throw him an anvil — being dissed by the NY Times is a winger badge of honor, but gettin’ in bed with Catholic hatin’ snake handlers is a pander over the line.
National Review deserves credit for this — even if it is just an opportunity to distance themselves before the McCain train wreck.
Timmah’s such a hack. Here’s the guest lineup for this Sunday:
Hagee’s name will not be mentioned. I’d bet on it.
I agree.
Eat some great food for those us who have limited selections.
It is always fun to watch religious wars from the sideline. I can only imagine the horror when the first crusaders came riding up to tell everyone they had to kill them because it was god’s will. Or the Jew’s when the inquisitioner came to call, or the nazi. How about the catholics when martin luther’s band came a calling outside the imperial court of the poop in those european countries that broke from it? It doesn’t matter which one, they are all xenophobic nuts that have a club you can’t join for some reason.
end it. end religion and we end 90% of our wars. we end it. It causes people to find and enjoy their similarity and nixes those crazy bastards that always use religion, always, to motivate their crowd toward violence against another.
but alas, it comes to america and instead of a constitution written by people that were against religion having anything to do with our country, we get people that are so freaking ignorant that reading is a challenge to them. They just can’t understand why their preacher of choice could be lying about god not wanting them to personally kill that sonofabitch next door.
Educate and religion goes away. I am embarrassed for Hawking and Einstein and their constant referral to some god in their scientific work. We grow only when we realize it is us, people, that are making it happen. Not some idiotic concept used to enslave humanity by those that use humanity for their own desire for power to control it. Religion is thousands of years old and was obsolete long ago. Lettuce grow up?
Second that.
My version: religion kills more people than it saves.
Hey - I was gonna say that
I really, really, love you Jane.
Wars are not fought over religion, they are fought over property.
Eliminate religion and the property owners/coveters will find another explanation why the people who fight for them should hate and kill other people. Pigmentation and dietary habits will do just fine.
Speak for yourself, kimo sabe, but leave other people’s views alone.
It’s okay to call out bigotry when it shows its ugly face, though, and Russert (and a lot of others) should be asked about this, in public, and often.
The race card will be played in a much more insidious way than we’ve ever known. It won’t be obvious thus a criticism will be viewed as paranoid. The Obama campaign will have a hard time addressing it not for lack of ability but because their defense will be used against them.
We, the netroots, will have to be the first line of defense.
Who gives a sh** about lives..it’s souls that count. The fundamentalist view that, unless you agree with their theology, you are certain to be tortured for eternity is probably the most perverted, psychopathic religion that I can imagine. In their view probably 99.9999% of all humans that have lived fall into this category and they get great pleasure thinking about that.
An early OT but it seems to fit if you are all for the Rapture:
TPM
This guy is a fool.
McCain embraces radical cleric.
He is merely the opposite edge of the sword.
this is what I’ve been saying from the onset, that bush is a “dispensationalist”
the dispensationalist is a sick group, they misinterpreted the turning of millennium for some kind of catastrophe and they actually believe the Armageddon is a GOOD thing
they think they can help to bring the end of the earth sooner rather then later
in other words, they yearn for “the rapture”
thus the wars in Iran and Iraq
mccain, in accepting the endorsement is saying he is on board with this cult
Couldn’t agree more. We also have to ask our questions differently. I notice when Progressives or Progressive sympathizers ask a quest it resonates as an apology. We need to ask the bigotry question to Tim Russert and his ilk with greater conviction and a note of accusation. Put them on the defense again and again.
No more Mr. Nice Guy!
IMO, a factor in the Dem primary..little or no effect in the General . I can’t imagine that a overt or crypto-racist would change their vote because of exposure of racism.
I guess you can’t make all the religious nuts happy. Sucks to be a Republican.
or maybe IOKIYAA (Asshole)
spot on!
I agree, would love to hear that asked again and again.
fool? that is putting it mildly.
is this a good time to mention that I really despise mccain?
I have to say that I would really like to see Buffalo Fail meet with Bill Donohue at the next Meat the Press. However, as I read upthread, he’s got the Carville/Matalin and Shrum love-fest scheduled instead.
Precisely.
And religion is not going away - not now and probably not ever. At the core of the religious impulse is the human need to create meaning in the world, to create community and identity, and to confront their fears of death.
I was going to respond with some philosphy about souls, but decided it was too OT and too provocative. Will look for an opportunity to make my points on another thread.
The more Bill Donahue (a wacko in his own right) pitches a fit over McCain’s suck up to the fundys via Hagee, the better it is for progressives. Give Donahue all the air time he can handle. A good fight between Catholics and fundys will help to expose the foolishness and dark age fundamentals of both factions.
IMO, religion is in our DNA.
Works for me.
The overt racist I don’t worry about. They’ve been around since the beginning of time and will be here long after me. My concern is with insidious tactics is with the other people who ebb and flow with prevailing opinion. I think Hillary knows something of this.
These people aren’t hateful because they are rotten to the core and hate is the juice of their existence. They become genuinely confused. You’ll hear, “I don’t know. I thought. Originally. I’m not sure now.”
ps, sent Hagee’s “Great Whore” youtube to San Antonio Archdiocese and Huckabee campaign
What does the pumpkin say about our political process? that is has nothing to do with substance-let’s here a collective Duh
Hagee-I have written this corpulent pustule asking for explanations to some of his less than christian responses to things like Katrina.
Reply.. boiler plate doublespeak
Have you seen pictures of his church-jeebus what obscenity.
Given their head men like him are extremely dangerous.
Countervalence called for
As it is done here @FDL.
Thx Jane
Speak for your own DNA. *g*
oh Cbl you devil. nice to see you having fun.
Oh, that’s just mean. *g*
Of course, I’m sure the archbishop is more than a little familiar with Hagee.
The relationship between fundamental Christians and Catholics has been cozy enough for both sects to have voted for Dubya and generally vote all Republican all the time. If they can be split, that would be a wonderful thing for the progressive cause. They are keeping us in the dark ages in many ways. Stem Cell research and scientific education are two. Equal rights for women and gays are another.
There once was a lady named Jane
Who really can’t stand McCain
She digs all the dirt
With him she won’t flirt
So the truth she posts may be plain.
Hi Jane. Hey, I really don’t like McCain…*g*
well… i thought it was funny :)
hi Rev. Peterr!,
have scratched my head as to why Hagee gets away with this in such a heavily catholic city - home to plenty of Bircher type nutjobs, but still approx. 1 million catholics in 7th largest US city !
waving wildly to the progressive hotness in G’town !
Altruism is a trait that is born in human beings. It can be demonstrated by a toddler less than two years old. A small child will attempt to comfort a parent who feigns sadness and crying. Religion pretends to be the provider of a morality that is prewired. Parents need only nurture, teach and expand on it. Religion is not needed.
I’m afraid bigotry and wars are about a lot more than religion. I’ve spent a life time trying to understand what is the driving force that causes people to do violence. It isn’t religion or race or ethic difference. These are not the causes; they are the result of violence.
So, I lived on an island in the Indonesian archipelago in which all the people were of the same race, tradition, history and religion. They gave up on wars over six hundred years earlier. You would think this was a land of great harmony.
They found a difference to ostracize, ridicule, reject, isolate, consider less than human to people in other villages because their dance, of the same name, was slightly different. So I set out to study the dance in the various villages and I could not find a difference. So maybe one moved the arm to the left while another style placed the arm overhead for a movement. My question was, why would this be a reason for such violence towards each other?
I could only conclude that humans are inherently violent and will look for any excuse to do violence to their fellow human. What went wrong in our evolution that this has become so prominent in our nature and has caused such terrible suffering.
I think the Buddhists and some other groups reached a similar conclusion and practice nonviolence because they can’t stop their own nature. Perhaps through practicing nonviolence behavior we will overcome this trait.
On the other hand, I watch the way people love the hatefulness and cruelty of violence. This trait can truly lead to our own demise.
Phew. Thanks tw3k. I had to hold my breath for seven whole minutes!
Hi all. I thought limericks were okay now that the writers’ strike is over…
salon.com
In a word, YES. Just to clinch the deal he threw in a Green Party veep. There, he polked his finger in every Democrats eye!
My totally unscientific opinion is that humans have spent 99% of our “evolutionary time” in small (50-250) size hunter gatherer groups and that there was an evolutionary advantage for humans to be able to make very precise distinctions for “us” and “them”. Agriculture and “civilization” forced broader definitions of “us” and “them” but the underlying impulse is still with us.
Hey, maybe we should go to local emporium of spirits and confront the racists hippos for happy hr. and drink liberally or progressively if you prefer.
I’d say race is one major factor.
Much of the RC church in San Antonio is Hispanic, in great contrast to Hagee’s folks. Given the current race-baiting going on in the southwest, courtesy of the GOP’s “Great Wall” strategery, my guess would be that the RC’s in SA are just trying to keep out of the way of the wingnuts and not stir up trouble.
Now if this was playing out in somewhere like St. Louis or Chicago, I’d guess that the archbishop would be in front of the camera and talking to every reporter he could find.
Donahue is not universally liked among the Catholic hierarchy, mostly because of his delusions of grandeur and habit of sticking his foot in his mouth — but every once and a while . . . *sharp intake of breath* . . . even Donahue gets one right.
from Conason’s piece:
my bold. that horse left the barn a long time ago.
ding, ding, ding !
Author Marvin Harris reaches the same conclusion in The Sacred Cow and Abominable Pig:
and oh yeah Mr. Cbl !
Very OT, but is this the cbl who likes the Texas Tornados and Freddy Fender?
A long time ago is an understatement. I think the barn has decomposed since then.
Clearly Sen. Obama must atone for anything said by African-Americans.
Now to get Russert to denounce Whitey Bulger.
-G
It’s easy and comfortable to attribute things to DNA. Means we have nothing to do with it. We’ve had lots of religions over the eons. Roman Gods antedated Christ who arrived in force when a sufficiently large number of people changed their minds. Mostly we have to grow up. No sign of anything like that happening soon.
why yes it is ! back after months of no toobz. good to see you
So, is McCain promising to Hagee followers that he will appoint more Catholic Supreme Court Judges, like Roberts, et. al.?
Isn’t Russert a devout Catholic, and don’t Chris Matthews, Pat Buchannon, and Cokie Roberts have any questions about this endorsement?
Great one.
Whitey Bulger
I caught part of a Nader interview this a.m. and had to ask myself “what’s he saying that’s any different from some of the candidates who have already dropped out?”. It’s ridiculous. I’d rather write in Ron Paul’s name than vote for cheap-ass Nader.
The specifics of “religion” change over time but I am not aware of any “culture” that is without “religion”.
OT Have any of you watched Obama “bustin’ a move on Ellen’s show - it’s on Huff. Really great.
Has Senator Obama denounced the twin African-American gay porn actors who were recently arrested for robbery?
Tap, tap, tap……We’re waiting.
-G
I wonder what would happen if Louis Farrakhan published a glowing endorsement of Tim Russert and John McCain.
OT - well, hmpf! Jello Jay has endorsed Obama! s’posed to up his foreign policy credentials…
interesting concept…
I’ll go over to Huff but speaking of religiofascishypocritia…it seems that people who give Mitt a pass on religious litmus tests aren’t willing to do so for Obama.
What a bunch of crap. It’s all about power and money. Nothing else. So write the check already and STFU.
now that’s funny
I think “growing up” is the right meme to use for a bunch of these issues. As a species and as a planet, we’re going thru a rough adolescence. No guarantee that we’ll make it thru it in one piece. But, we’re definitely challenged to become adults. And it’s as hard as ever …
Do you mean I’ll have to give up my immaginary friend? I, for one, will fight to the death for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. ;)
Sort of on the general topic, via Froomkin, Timothy Goeglein, Bush’s liaison to conservatives and Christian groups was caught plagiarizing, apparently on several occasions. Irony? Naw, just SOP.
Have they announced the date of Goeglein’s medal ceremony?
LOL!
One of the many things I love about large academic medical centers is the rich diversity of religious beliefs among the many smart people using their powerful intellects for the greater good.
And I love the culture of tolerance that respects all beliefs regarding religion: including the belief that religions (or deity/deities) do not exist.
The post above seeks to motivate public action in the ploitical sphere to decry (rightly) McCain’s strong links with a “preacher” notorious for religious intolerance.
What an odd format for commenters to denigrate others’ religious beliefs.
Also, how sad that the fundamentalist hate preachers have - in so many minds - been equated with all religious beliefs. This would come as quite a surprise to my friends in Catholic Worker and the pagan community - as well as to Mark Trotter,: the gentle ecumenical pastor who preached tolerance and acceptance in the Methodist church I attended as a boy.
Afternoon Elliott!
Peculiar being here in the middle of the day.
What’s shakin’?
Amen
no mucho, just catching up on a backlog, and drifting in and out of the Lake.
How u?
Shouldn’t people be able to say that they think that religious beliefs are wrong?
Same deal. Catching up on Marcy and Glenn and FDL. Light morning.
Instant paranoia sets in on days when I have no clients :)
Also OT but the Dow is down 293 points ‘cuz Bush is taking care of business –just like he takes care of everything else.
These folks are swimming up stream:Dallas Morning News
I am tolerant of other beliefs. I really don’t understand religion nor do I support religion. While I realize beliefs are as diversion as the population it does become easy to generalize religion to the extremists that populate media.
Amen to that…snarking
As that famous Texan, Dr. Phil, would say, “Hey Rob, how’s that workin’ for ya?”
Says Mr. Schlein, “This just gives Democrats a reason to say to gays, ‘Hey, these Republicans really hate you’.”
Do we need to? Honestly, and no shit, do we really need to?
I’m curious as to what would have happened if Obama and said, “Hey, Tim, what part of ‘reprehensible’ don’t you understand?”
Just sayin’.
As you well know, Rob, the same First Amendment that protects all Americans right to worship - or not - as they choose protects any American’s right to make the most hateful comments they chose about religion or religions.
Even the odious Rev Hagee and the (usually) excecrable Bill Donahue.
Yet the fact of this right makes relgious intolerance (of one religion or all) and religious prejudice (against believers or non-believers) no less odious.
Rob, you know the First Amendment as well as I do.
Since we both know people are free to say what ever they wish about religion, the question
is merely another debate team diversion tactic.
And yet another failure of the same.
So - Rob - other than the daily display of sophistry - what’s your point?
Oops - back later for the sophistry du thread.
I’ve somehting more useful to bury - kitties are letting me know it’s time to change the litter boxes.
Rrrow!