Jane!

Get lost, Ralph.

I fricking love seatbelts. Hey Jane :)

This is funny. I wonder if there will be many votes for ‘ol Ralph. [[[RALPH]]]. Where’s he getting the money to run? Does he have a job, or does he live on McCain/Feingold?

lolNader

He probably lives on the contributions of devotees like my poor late sister. I suppose there still are people who will vote for him?

Poor Ralph, bless his little heart, it’s not his fault that he makes me wanna ralph.

Who’s payin’ ya Ralph??

Go Away!!!

Letterman: Top Ten Nader Campaign Promises

I fricking love seatbelts.

I love seat belts but I HATE seat belt laws

they could have gotten more compliance if they just allowed the insurance companies to add an opt in;

“I promise to wear a seat belt”

they would have recieved lower rates and if in an accident without a seat belt the insurance company would give less coverage

voluntary compliance instead of mandated compliance…who’da thunk?

I like Ralph.

Can I be the first here to say STFU Ralph?

From wiki:

Personal finances

According to the mandatory fiscal disclosure report that he filed with the Federal Election Commission in 2000, he then owned more than $3 million worth of stocks and mutual fund shares; his single largest holding was more than $1 million worth of stock in Cisco Systems, Inc. He also held more than $2 million in two money market funds. Nader owns no car or real estate, and says he lives on US$25000 a year and gives most of his stock earnings to many of the over four dozen non-profit organizations he has founded[61][62]

Based on previous disclosure forms, his stock portfolio (thru the Fidelity Magellan Fund) includes: Halliburton, Occidental Petroleum, the Limited, the Gap, Wal-Mart, Exxon-Mobil, Shell Oil Company, Sunoco, Texaco, Chevron Corporation, Raytheon (a major missile manufacturer), other various defense contractors, and Bristol-Myers Squibb. [63] [64] [65]

In 1990, Forbes magazine reported that Ralph Nader lives in a $1.5 million mansion that had the deed under his sister’s name.[66]

Click through for the links.

Ralph will give us: McBush.

A-hole.

Oh, how I’ve just howled! Having a belly laugh just before you go to bed is good for the soul. Jane, thanks for this! [heads off to bed, dragging stuffed bunny and giggling]

lol, yeah, no special interests there.

me, i found voluntary compliance just meant more traffic fatalities. it took mandatory child seat laws before kids stopped paying the price for their parents’ stubbornness about proper restraints.

but that’s just me.

I’ve seen too many folks (usually in the funeral home) who weren’t wearing seat belts at the wrong time. Suzanne probably has seen more, closer to the time of impact.

But I’m not trying to compete with Suzanne. If you’ve seen one, you’ve seen too many.

Ralph has stock in Halliburton? And five oil companies???

hey LL – very nicely done STFU :)

Made me laugh the second time, too.

It’s just funny.

Nice stock portfolio, RALPH.

aw thanks Suz :-)

You know, if Nader were serious about getting into a position of power, where he could actually maybe do some good, he would swallow a little bit and run as a Democrat. But no-he would rather be ideologically pure, and lose.
If Ralph Nader would run as a Democrat, I wonder how strong his support would be?

From the sounds of that wiki piece, he has been invested in a large mutual fund, and those are some of the choices they made for the fund he put his money into.

On the one hand, it’s not like he said “Gosh, I think I’ll pick up some Halliburton stock today.” On the other hand, though, he obviously didn’t care whether someone else made that choice on his behalf.

I HATE seat belt laws

also consider the first responders who have to deal with the gruesome mess of people thrown thru windshields, motorcyclists who ignore helmet laws and end up with their brains all over the street. Somebody has to clean up after the irresponsible actions of others.

and what Suzanne says @17

Amen.

I like seat belt laws.

I do not like Ralph running for president.

Ralph, stick to what you do best.

yes it is!

Yep — and Suz knows this too, but how many accidents have we heard about in which victims would probably have survived if only they’d worn their seatbelts?

Dear Ralph Nader, and I mean this most sincerely,

Please get the fuck out of this presidential campaign. Really.

Loved your public health stuff. Hate how you could be a spoiler–again.

Signed,
A former admirer

Please get the fuck out of this presidential campaign. Really.

*polite golf applause*

I wonder if a little birdie *cough darth cheney cough* influenced Ralphie’s decision to try to siphon Dem votes in the general.

There was a time when I liked Nader. Not now.

Ralphie, you be careful out there

sadly replying to my own comment,

Somebody has to clean up after the irresponsible actions of others.

is also a slap at the current administration.
Bush sucks, but Nader?
he can go f*** a Corvair.

Hey Suz,
That’s my backyard, and he better not come here.

portfolio (thru the Fidelity Magellan Fund) includes: Halliburton, Occidental Petroleum, the Limited, the Gap, Wal-Mart, Exxon-Mobil, Shell Oil Company, Sunoco, Texaco, Chevron Corporation, Raytheon (a major missile manufacturer), other various defense contractors, and Bristol-Myers Squibb. [63] [64] [65]

….

Nader lives in a $1.5 million mansion

—-

Ralph is not into ‘lifestyle issues’ I heard him say it himself on the toob during one of his previous vanity campaigns…

This guy is like the n-teenth lame coming of goofus, erzats but irritatingly self-righteous political Jesus every four years. Armageddon is unleashed, except because he loses and screws everything up.

Blimp/Corvair 08!!!111

Nader’s credibility has long passed.

pffffffffffftttt

this judicious application of Ralph-B-Gon ™ was brought to you by STFUR Enterprises.

spew

The clips were funny, but if Anonymous can take on scientology, why not Nader? I think Nader should take priority. How can we contact this Anonymous in order to submit a request for a project revision?

“Can I be the first here to say STFU Ralph?”

That’s a rather undemocratic thing to say.

In terms of his platform, isn’t Ralph more “progressive” than either Obama or Clinton?

Our concerns about Nader are really based on the politics of raw power, rather than progressive principle, aren’t they?

Bob in HI

You know, if Nader were serious about getting into a position of power, where he could actually maybe do some good, he would swallow a little bit and run as a Democrat. But no-he would rather be ideologically pure, and lose.

How can he call himself ideologically pure if he holds stock in Halliburton? Can we spell HYPOCRITE?

Our concerns about Nader are really based on the politics of raw power, rather than progressive principle, aren’t they?

That would be a “NO.”

“All the candidates from both parties are the same…”
Famous last words.

Did it work? Let us know, seevooplay.

Hmm.. wonder if the old French is rusty.

Hi Bob, I was mainly saying that in the spirit of the video up top. Nader has done a lot of good with consumer issues, but IMO he’s irrelevant in this race.

Sounds like you bought it in a spray can. I think we need traps. Lots of traps. Problem is where to put them. Where will the dude appear this time. I think Dunkin Donuts will ban the guy before long. And I’m not sure where else he might go.

yeah, ET said he does some writing for counterpunch. If i had more i’d read em.

Gotta wonder why he wouldn’t join with progressives tho to help to push the party left from within.

This is great! We are anonymous. We are legion.

Too cool. Thanks, Jane!

Time and place for everything.

We have the opportunity, if we don’t royally screw it up again, to have a Democratic president to sign legislation passed by the Democratic Senate and House.

Yes Obama and Clinton have flaws. Surprise—they are human beings. But right now the choice is between them and McCain [or HuckaMitt]. We can dream and consider life philosophically, but there comes a time to take action—impure action—to choose among impure alternatives.

Democratic president now, better Democrats in the House and Senate, better more progressive candidates in the future.

Does an alternative scenario exist that I am somehow missing?

I agreed with that at the time even tho i voted gore. It took bush to make gore look, or become, liberal

mr wobbly: oh gawd nooo, not this wanker again

tee-hee, love that word

You know, if Nader were serious about getting into a position of power, where he could actually maybe do some good, he would swallow a little bit and run as a Democrat. But no-he would rather be ideologically pure, and lose.
If Ralph Nader would run as a Democrat, I wonder how strong his support would be?

Nader has a perfect right to run and he is correct that the current Democratic candidates have serious flaws. That said, he and everyone inclined to vote for him will recall the effect of his candidacy on the outcome of the 2000 campaign. I would hope that the eventual Democratic nominee would move sufficiently far to the left to acquire Nader’s endorsement, or lacking that, the votes of everyone inclined to vote for him.

yeah i like that

works great w/ robo-voc

it’s not like he said “Gosh, I think I’ll pick up some Halliburton stock today.” On the other hand, though, he obviously didn’t care whether someone else made that choice on his behalf.

It sounds to me like about the worst thing one can honestly attack Nader for wrt the stock portfolio is that he failed to supervise. Be interesting to see what he does, if good sense does not prevail and he stays in the race.

wobblybits — me too! Excellent word.

Many of the things we are aware of today in relation to corporations are because of Nader. The problem is that when he gets votes…we end up under the control of the very people he exposed. We cannot ever get off the gerbil wheel, because of the way he enters the race. He ends up being destructive. It is the method, not the message.

Agree to a certain extent.
But with all we knew about Chimpy back then, and not somehow discovered later, which of the 2 (Gore-Bush) would you have laid money on to invade Iraq?

i like to think of him as a little wanker

idk, policy flaws goes a little beyond human flaws.

“Can I be the first here to say STFU Ralph?”

no, but you can be the second.

STFUR Enterprises claims to hold the copyright.

Nadar has stock in Halliburton? If true, then what else do you need to know.

Nader also has a perfect right to try to build a third party movement that might have some positive impact between elections. Or a non-partisaon movement, or do something constructive. Swooping in every four years like he is some kind of political savior accomplishes nothing, at best.

I think he has turned into a vain messianic self-righteous and destructive fool (might get some serious backing if he were GOP). Totaly bogus at this point, after all the good work he has done in the past.

bloody wanker is even better, lol.

Syria is in danger of getting attacked.

I’d sooner recycle dental floss than accord Ralph Nader the time of day.

punaise, see me at #12 ;-)

And it’s not like he isn’t smart enough to realize it either.

No fighting over who was first to denounce Ralph.

gotta link?

well shit, that’s why i voted gore because i knew nader wouldn’t win and that bush would have a war.

wes — or was it renounce?

No fighting-LL wins.

Goodnight, all. The best of all possible tomorrows to you all.

many times, ego overrides the brain

lol that is my husband’s words, not mine. I just ignore him and hope if enough people do the same, he’ll go away.

I hate it when that happens. :~)

g’nite rond

boa noite, ron

The NHTSA had an emergency room doc as administrator for it from 2001-2005 who now is the Chief Med Officer at DHS.

While at NHTSA, he conducted several seat belt studies and several SUV rollover studies.

The results of the seatbelt studies are obvious. The SUV rollover studies showed a significant increase in C-Spine fractures causing death or paralysis–about 16% whether they rolled over on their own or in collisions with another vehicle.

These studies helped drive more stablity in SUVs but not near enough.

Another study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that in SUV collions with non-SUV cars, the U.S. has 1000 deaths a year because of the difference in height between the SUV front ends/grills and cars.

The study, by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, using data from the auto industry and the federal government, found that in side-impact collisions the number of deaths fell by nearly half when automakers lowered S.U.V.’s by as little as half an inch or equipped them with hollow impact-absorbing bars below the front and rear bumpers.

From Gains Seen in Redesign of S.U.V.’s

The changes are intended to reduce the frequency of S.U.V.’s and pickups’ sliding over cars’ doorsills and bumpers and piercing deep into cars’ passenger compartments.

The changes also reduced by a fifth the risk that an S.U.V. would kill a belted car driver in a frontal collision. The same changes in pickups produced smaller but still significant safety gains. Not since the air bag has a safety standard been so effective in saving lives, experts say.

“To cut somebody’s risk of death in half, that’s huge,” said Ricardo Martinez, the top auto safety regulator during the Clinton administration. “That’s almost as good as seat belts. You’re lucky if a new regulation gets you a 5 or 10 percent reduction in the death rate.”

Study Says Height Makes S.U.V.’s Dangerous in Collisions

Congress has mandated lowering SUV height that will take effect in about 5 years. In the meantime, the height discrepancy will cause 1000 deaths per year. Those are the amount of deaths apparently that Congress feels it can tolerate while it gives the auto industry several years to comply with safety.

Good. With your whole brain, and my half brain, we came to the same conclusion.
Ralph? Not so much.

ralph that is (ignore), not mr wobbly

laughing – cause you know i was wonderin…

Have to agree there. I didn’t know a lot about Bush then, but I heard him debate, and it was clear the man was a dumbshit.

i guess, but after almost a decade of thought on the issue, if his ego is that big, seems like he’d have thought up a better solution by now.

my contempt for Nader is less constant than that for HoJo, but not necessarily less intense.

I saw Ralph’s sister recently in a restaurant in Berkeley. She teaches at the university. Looks just like him. But is rather more reasonable of late.

Ralph.

sometimes, one can get caught in the circular trap of thinking they are the solution when they are in fact, part of the problem.

Ralph with less hair color, but with lip gloss.

punaise, if I spoke French I’d say something like “it’s ok, mon ami” ;-)

Ralph.

Done.

lol, not saying i’m brainy or anything and i don’t take you for someone who would vote on sut-pilot.

funny video. I followed the link to the anonymous video, and then got sucked into the whole anonymous campaign against scientology. That is some wierd crap.

Do you renouce, denounce, dismissiviely pronounce, and implacably ver-trounce the wicked goofus Nader? Yes or no?

i voted for ralph in 2000 because there wasn’t really any difference between the parties. I was horribly mistaken.

i’d have a lot more respect for him if he’d spent the time between then and now actually trying to build a real 3rd party. Coming out every election or two to get some time in the spotlight and screw things up does not earn much respect …

where’s his lapel flag pin?

Good night, RonD. Best possible tomorrow to you!

merci LL!

I scored 100%.

http://reverent.org/donald_jud…..iture.html

I may need to get out more.

:)
rm my last then tw3k

Furthermore it looks like the imminent loss of Punaise’ teeth is on Nader’s head as well.

It is disgusting man. Think of the loss, the evil, the sorrow, the French lisps, this man has caused.

well that makes to me. I try not to fall into that trap myself.

Ralph Nader had a perfect right to siphon off enough votes to screw the country by “electing” George W. Bush and all the evil he has wrought.

fork, i only got 50%

cool, now i gotta go look!

My contempt for Ralph knows some bounds (unlike my contempt for Joe Lieberman), but not very many.

But the real beauty of it is that there is a 90% chance that said SUV will have a Bush/Cheney sticker on it.

I think I could replace Russert. I will be glad ot moderate debates between any of you Nader haters, for a small fee or free meal, or a few beers.

“Look here is a picture of Nader. Will you punch it right here? In front of the audience. Oh, I see, you will ignore it and dismiss it, and throw in the trash, but you won’t punch it. So you secretly support Nader? So you’ll break your word, huh? Won’t protect the country. This is reality. Next topic.”

donald judd … hmmm… yrs in ignorance. maybe i need to get out more too!

Just to play Devil’s advocate for a minute,
If Mike Gravel can run for President, why can’t Nader?
Gravel is wayyy the hell out there.

gravel was at least funny?

From Ralphs issues web page

Twelve Issues that Matter for 2008

Adopt single payer national health insurance
Cut the huge, bloated, wasteful military budget
No to nuclear power, solar energy first
Aggressive crackdown on corporate crime and corporate welfare
Open up the Presidential debates
Adopt a carbon pollution tax
Reverse U.S. policy in the Middle East
Impeach Bush/Cheney
Repeal the Taft-Hartley anti-union law
Adopt a Wall Street securities speculation tax
Put an end to ballot access obstructionism
Work to end corporate personhood

dam, i didn’t even know Donald Judd designed furniture and I was trained as a sculptor.

But, so far, he hasn’t run every 4 years – thank goodness.

67%

rm -rf ./last

:)

gravel didn’t show up just before the primaries in each election saying he was now running – after the field had been winnowed in the early part of the campaign.

gravel gets my respect for honoring the process and not trying to subvert it.

17% Did better than I expected.

I admit that I ignored him too and mr wobbly never referred to him as a ‘wanker’

show-off

Good point. Proves he isn’t serious.

I haven’t heard that Gravel plans to bolt the Democratic Party and run as an independent candidate who would siphon off votes that would otherwise likely go Democratic, thus throwing the election to the Republicans.

Does he?

Of SUVs that have stickers, I’m sure you’re right although I’m seeing stickers for 3 people in the race lately–I haven’t seen what would be paradoxical Nadar stickers.

In close counties, Nadar made a big difference in 2000. He was far from the only reason though that cost Gore the Presidency.

I don’t think he’s going to have the same impact this time around, and he has done some substantially positive work in his career, but I’d like him not to be running.

Fine. But he isn’t going to accomplish any of those worthy goals by siphoning off votes from the Democratic nominee.

Whoops Nader.

the Judd furniture is pleasing to the eye, but I wouldn’t want to sit in one of those chairs for very long.

sucks cause i totally agree.

spelling police tend to stay out of the comments and only go after the part of the page up top.

how goes it tonight, pete

Not bad but I’m more tired than usual.

tuck this away for future use, it’s bound to come in handy:

“oui, on peut”

.

(French for “si, se puede”)

Nice issues. I agree with many of them. But, getting that done takes more than a run with no organization and no base of support every four years.

And, getting involved in a way that tends to throw things to the dark side, then it’s a problem.

I would not be anti-Nader if he would work on building an effective political organization and movement between elections. That might accomplish something. Then he can run and I won’t call him bad names.

I just wanted to throw it out there.

My opinion is I don’t care if he runs or not.
I don’t see him having much effect this go round. Too may people are way too pissed off at Bush. This time Nader isn’t going to make much difference because of sheer volume.

portuguese: sim, nos podemos or sim, a gente pode

Here’s the perfect slogan for Ralph:

Vote for Ralph Nader, the man who gave us George Bush.

yes. exactly.

lots of that going around. what part of the planet are you located? i had a wonderful spring day today (74 was the official high today in my little corner of the Central California coast) certainly gave me more pep to my step today.

I scored 17%, but I’ve never heard of Judd. I really need to get out more…

…and we all want to sound more French…

OT: really long but worth reading. Republican pointing out the obstruction by bushco of some very important issues.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/31398

Oh and Nader can f*** off.

“oui, on peut”

Me gusto!

Punaise, I love the sentiment. Your efforts are deeply appreciated. But in English… I dunno. Gotta homophonic hurdle there.

Sounds like something the McCain campaign marketing geniuses would come up with. In fact we will probably here that soon from them.

Just to play Devil’s advocate for a minute,
If Mike Gravel can run for President, why can’t Nader?
Gravel is wayyy the hell out there.

It’s too late baby oh it’s too late

Pepe Escobar on Kosovo and Kurdistan.

It’s all about power and in order to maintain power you need fuel.

-G

Then perhaps he ought to mind his mutual fund portfolio so that it is a little more aligned to his platform.

I don’t seem Nader getting into the race as that much different from Edwards refusing to endorse. Both are trying to force their nearest candidates to a yet nearer position to theirs, and in Edwards case, their might be a degree of self interest.

But basically, both are saying, “if you want my support and votes, move your position closer to mine.” IMHO, that would be a good thing in both cases, and in fact it appears that Edwards’s holding out has had a noticeable effect on both Obama and Hillary, an effect for the better.

wigwam, i see it as completely different. edwards withholding his endorsement is not the same as siphoning off votes in the general election that could have gone to the D nominee.

Me too. If I recognized the pieces they were from Target or Ikea, if I didn’t recognize them I assumed they were Judd. It worked. :P

what suzanne said

I doubt he’ll have much impact this time either. But to be honest, I’d say the same about McCain.

It looks to me like Mr. Judd made some real expensive cheap furniture.
then again I have no class and strange tastes.
I prefer Mission style and some Art Deco.
Oh and Stickley.

*Waving*
Hi everyone;)

YES,WE CAN! Can’t believe Hillary’s camp let Obama take it.

hey margot

Thanks very much for that story on Kosovo. I don;t have strong opinions on it because I know so little about the details of the region. I do believe there has been more going on there than fascist Serbs political movements.

It does explain some puzzling things. Like why was the previous Kosovo independence movment and parrallel government, wich I understand was much more peaceful moderate ignored. But the west got on board when the KLA got the upper hand?

Maybe the previous bunch were not considered strong enough or friendly enough to run the place according to the boss’s orders.

Any more interesting tidbits would be appreciated.

There are times when only Bob Somerby seems to get it:

Now, the time has come for Fineman, and his colleagues, to speak about something that actually matters. They all know what’s involved in Cunningham’s rant, in that Tennessee press release. The question is simple: Will they speak? Will they describe what’s before them?

Norah O’Donnell understands those events. Howard Fineman understands them too, as does the loud crackpot Matthews. The question: Are they willing to say what they know? They felt free to speak during Campaign 2000, when they were so deeply troubled by Gore’s vastly troubling clothing. (In those days, O’Donnell spoke truth to pundit power, often making Matthews angry.) Will they say what they know in this instance?

A bit of background might be in order. All these pundits understand a basic twenty-year history:

The politics we’re talking about began in 1988. In that campaign, George Bush the elder brought Lee Atwater to the forefront of Republican politics. No one had “defined” Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale in the way Atwater would soon “define” Michael Dukakis. As such, that Willie Horton-driven campaign was the start of our modern define-and-smear politics. All the Hardball pundits knows this. They can see where it’s led us today.

This week, as they watched Bill Cunningham’s rant, they all could see where the past twenty years have left us. But none of them said what they knew last night; to our eyes, they seemed uncomfortable. At least two of their number felt very free to express their views about Gore’s troubling clothes. Americans of all political stripes should hound these people to the gates of hell if they spend the next nine months pretending they can’t see what’s before them.

Twain described the ranting Bill Cunningham more than a hundred years ago. Today, Fineman knows who this loud nut-case is; Dionne, Shields and Carlson all know it too. At long last, these stone cowards need to speak up. For once, they should try doing duty.

*waves*

I’ve been enjoying your new works, sorry I haven’t replied yet.

Wes,

I have become so cynical about the intentions of the US goverment, that I’m afraid it clouds my judgement at times.

I ultimately come down to the old saw: You can’t stay on top forever.

-G

Some Letterman riffs on Nader and McCain:

David Letterman, riffing on his favorite candidates:

“How about that Ralph Nader, ladies and gentlemen? He looks like the night manager of a creepy motel, doesn’t he?”
“He looks like a guy whose compound would be raided by ATF agents.”
“He looks like a guy at a gas station who gives you bad directions.”
“He looks like a guy that says we have proof we never went to the moon.”
“Ralph looks like a shady horse track doctor.”
“Doesn’t he look like the cranky guy at a hearing on the new traffic light?”
“He looks like the guy who can’t find his table after he goes to the salad bar.”

Letterman, on John McCain:
“John McCain looks like the guy who picks up his TV remote when the phone rings.”
“John McCain looks like the kind of guy who brags that his new denture adhesive allows him to eat corn on the cob.”
“He looks like a guy who park his RV overnight at Wal-Mart.”

interesting piece … got me wondering about foreign policy advisors for clinton and obama

http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4940

i love her landscapes, tw3k. they are eye candy for sure

Seems like long long ago I would have dismissed that Kosovo story as tin foil hat stuff.

But then I remember a conference I went to on Afghanistan and learned from witnesses how certain parts of the US govt thinks. I forget whether this was before or after 9/11, but it was about who the US supported during the Afghan resistance to Soviet occupation. These ex-Afghan guerrillas said that the US would only support the most violent, extreme elements of the Afghan resistance. The more moderate elements would plead for money and support, but were told they need not apply. The US thought they were wussies and only wanted the baddest of the bad who could get things done. So the moderates said that the US was crazy, and did not realize who they were supporting. And the US said yes we do, we want the baddest mean dudes, only they can whup Soviet ass, and then they will owe us, and be our boys. And the Afghan moderates said you US guys are stupid and nuts.

So, how did that turn out?

That video is hysterical. I saw it a couple days ago on Americablog and laughed my ass off seeing it again tonight.

OMG!! I’ve got to start watching Letterman.

…and we all want to sound more French…

n’est-ce pas!

Hiya Margot!

Hello Margot and Christine!

Nader is not the only liberal running for President who has problems.

Clinton agreed along with all the other major candidates that Michigan and Florida would not count. They were told not to campaign there. None of them did. In fact, Obama and Edwards withdrew their names from the Michigan ballot. Incredibly, Clinton now says that Michigan and Florida should count. That Clinton would assert such an argument is ridiculous.

Now her campaign is making noises that they don’t like the fact that about a quarter of the Texas delegates will be awarded as part of a caucus that will occur the same day as the Primary vote. Clinton thinks primary votes favor her and caucuses favor Obama. So what does she do? Start threatening to sue to nullify the caucus portion of Texas’ political process! http://www.mcclatchydc.com/hom…..29019.html What does this say about her? This is after all the other cheating low blows, summarized again below:

From the moment Hillary Clinton declared the “fun” was starting, in other words the moment she saw that she actually needed to compete for the Democratic nomination, we have seen a string of shameful tactics by her campaign.

Let’s review all the Clinton “fun.” It started with members of the Clintons’ campaign sending emails lying that is Obama a Muslim when he is really a Christian. When Clinton staffers got caught doing that Hillary Clinton was shamed into firing them. She acted surprised at their misconduct, as if she hadn’t signaled to her campaign that anything goes with her comment about the “fun” starting.

Then Hillary Clinton complained in Iowa that students shouldn’t be allowed to vote in Iowa. It’s just a funny coincidence of course that the students she tried to disenfranchise don’t support her.

Then we had the rumors that the Clintons had more smear dirt on Obama that they supposedly had decided they weren’t going to use because of obvious moral concerns. A few days later they used it – surprise! The co-chair of the Clintons’ campaign in the State of New Hampshire let the drug-related slur fly. Then Hillary was shamed into firing him too, as if she hadn’t authorized it.

Then, when she was starting to feel desperate she really got down and dirty in identity politics, fake crying and scaremongering. A few days before the Primary vote in New Hampshire, which she felt she needed to win in response to Obama’s surprise blowout victory in Iowa, Hillary Clinton diminished the legacy of the greatest black civil rights leader ever, Martin Luther King, by saying it took someone who looks more like her, an older white dude in President Johnson, to get civil rights done. Throughout her campaign Hillary Clinton has repeated disingenuously that it’s not about race race race race race or gender gender gender gender, as if she wouldn’t love white people and women to gang up on black people. In the very next few sentences after her comment about MLK, Hillary Clinton scaremongered a la Bush/Giuliani that if we elect Obama the terrorists will attack. During this same remarkable sequence Hillary Clinton welled up tears in her eyes for more sympathy. As Maureen Dowd astutely pointed out afterwards, the reason Hillary Clinton was crying was because she was so frustrated that people couldn’t see how much they need her.

Then, in Nevada, we saw mysterious Swift-boat robocalls against Obama referring to his middle name Hussein no less than four times and lying that he takes money from lobbyists. While the robocalls went out, Bill Clinton trolled the casinos in Vegas for caucus voters and, mysteriously, in his presence the Vegas casino caucuses (thought to favor Obama) shut down a half hour early.

Then, in South Carolina when things were looking down again and the Clintons were in the midst of losing, Bill Clinton played the race card again, comparing Barack Obama’s victory in South Carolina to those in the 80s of Jessie Jackson, a fringe black candidate who never had a competitive chance at garnering mainstream support.

Oh, Loo Hoo,
Way too long I’ve not heard from friends.

That Afghan resistance story seems crazy, but if you look back at news articles before 9/11, that is how the Bush II adminstration tended to deal with the Taliban. Lots of deals and plots and payments to suppress poppy crops, speculative nonsense about pipelines and strategic access stuff. So, if you look back at the news stories, it kind of makes sense.

But then I think this conference was before 9/11 so I may have read the news with the stories of thosw ex-Afghan moderate figher dudes in mind.

They were a very interesting roup of four or five peson from different backgrounds. Secular Afghan, moderate Muslims, ex-communists who deserted the party after Soviet plans for Afghanistan became clear. They all had one thing in common -they were not brutal minded nutcases.

yes :)

The abstractions are good as well.

Bless you tw3k. I will try not to bother you (too much).

iirc, that is how we hooked up with OBL – back in the days when we were supporting them against the Soviets.

ABC News’ Eloise Harper Reports: In an interview with ABC’s Cynthia McFadden, Sen. Hillary Clinton, when asked about the Barack Obama phenomenon, used a quote from Obama to describe her opponent. “I think the best description actually is in Barack’s own book” Clinton said, “where he said that he is a blank screen and people of widely different views project what they want to hear.” Clinton continued saying “he just hasn’t been around long enough.” Clinton continued saying “But with the blank screen it gives you a chance to just really infuse it with whatever you hope for, whatever you want without knowing.”

Bad Reporter is written in French? That is why I can’t understand it half the time.

I must go now to decipher the latest Bad Reporter.

Puaise, if you go with the wee on poo slogan, please coach people on pronunciation.

Correctamundo.
like he said, how’d that work out for us?

our daily obama supporter :)

I’ve got a message for Ralphie – FUCK YOU.

Funky sleep cycles, here. How are you doing?

No, please do, I enjoy seeing your art. I’m just not always very communicative.

I doubt he’ll get any substantial number of votes this time. Everyone who’s tempted to vote for him will remember 2000. IMHO, those who’ll vote for him are folks who’d have stayed home otherwise.

Days away with 87 year old parents, sleeping on a cot in the off room. Is this a vacation? Missed my laptop and all of you.

Obama has more out of the box folks on board. Which makes it more likely that he’ll run into serious roadblocks from the establishment jagoffs who don’t want anything done differently.

-G

Listening to Bush from his press conference this morning talking about how suits against telecom companies could help our enemies.

What an outrageous blatant liar.

Democrats need to demand that John McCain “reject and denounce” this nonsense.

Yes, and I’m not buying this, DuckSoup:

Let’s review all the Clinton “fun.” It started with members of the Clintons’ campaign sending emails lying that is Obama a Muslim when he is really a Christian. When Clinton staffers got caught doing that Hillary Clinton was shamed into firing them. She acted surprised at their misconduct, as if she hadn’t signaled to her campaign that anything goes with her comment about the “fun” starting.

But I love your handle!

Chris!

Hey Newtonusr, darling!

who said these things following a visit to Iraq in 2005?
“The fact that you have these suicide bombers now, wreaking such hatred and violence while people pray, is to me, an indication of their failure”

“It’s regrettable that the security needs have increased so much. On the other hand, I think you can look at the country as a whole and see that there are many parts of Iraq that are functioning quite well”

Doesn’t sound like a vacation, but you’ll be glad you spent the time with them one day. Some things can’t wait. (Gotta go see my dad this weekend… thanks for the reminder!)

Was dialup so intolerable that you didn’t even bother? :)

“wee, oh(n) puhhh”

Pu as in put, sorta

Welcome back Christine E.

I just think it’s funny that DuckSoup does a drive by paste without ever hanging out for discussion.

Fact was that the huge complex is NOT wireless, and then the only computer I could use, my mother’s, was off limits by ten or so, when she went to bed. No Late Nite for me at all. I did see a bit the next day, but then, it isn’t ever the same is it? Still, I loved being with my old Dad and Mum.

I agree with Hillary (and Obama) that he is deliberately something of a blank canvas, and it worries me. But, we do know something about Obama’s dedicated work as a community organizer, and we have the transcript of his (IMHO courageous) comments to the Jewish leaders in Cleveland: http://www.antiwar.com/blog/20…..pro-likud/

He is willing to take a dangerous stand.

Oooh, thanks so much!

Without disparaging the commenter in any way, I would just express my opinion that DuckSoup’s comments deserve a hearty “Quack!”

punaise, how do ducks say “quack” in French?

It’s probably time for the flaming to settle down (like, months ago IMO). But there’s this thing in front of us with all these keys…

George Bush?
McCain?

I wish the primaries were all over.

I see. Waste of a perfectly great screenname.

I can’t wait until the primaries are over.

Obama also came to CA and stood up for drivers licenses for immigrants (intellectually smart but politically suicidal), when he had only slim chances of winning the state.
Brave.

hey kirk

how do ducks say “quack” in French?

“kwaah(n)-kwaah(n)” is the clsest I can get in writing.

(I’ll send you the bill.)

As the primaries continue, it appears to me that both Democratic candidate are moving farther left, which is a good thing. But the controversy is damn annoying.

jinx!

(oh crap, beat me by a minute)

hey suz

sun. mmmm.

Good point. I’m seeing more substance as the primaries progress.

great minds think alike?

here’s a longer set of excerpts from that cleveland meeting. I was pretty impressed by it …
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..lling.html

I hope you are not trying to ruffle my feathers…

I agree, and I love the way he doesn’t let the machine (either the Clinton or the McCain) ruffle him. I think he’ll make a wonderful president. Quick learner and a real sense of choosing the right people in key positions if his campaign staff is any indication.

no — it’s scary … senator clinton

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w…..tors_x.htm

speaking of ruffling…

ba-bawk

Well that worked when Nader ran in 2000 and 2004 didn’t it. Gore and Kerry swung so far to the left to pick up progessive votes that they didn’t!

Today almost everyone says that Gore is showing his “real self”…so clearly he didn’t swing left when he decided to appoint Leiberman as his Vice President. Quite simply the logic is flawed. If someone occupies a position on the political chessboard that can’t be won except to move to the left of the person occupying that space one cedes that space to them and moves the OTHER DIRECTION. One tries to capture the center to prevent the other wing from obtaining the voters that are less bound to ideological considerations.

If however one can take a left position and feel comfortable that the other side needs to pander to the right ne need not move to the center as far, since the voters there will have clearer distinctions, and as the right-candidate moves that way he loses his hard-core supporters on the right. [The only case where a Republican would abandon the right would be if a right-wing populist occupies that space].

What do you charge for these translations, and how do you say freedom fries?

coin-coin!

pommes frites de la liberte!

(no bill to duck)

lol :)

that’s it!

like this? :)

vive les pommes frites!

seems that way to me.

excellent

hmmm … makes me think I should call it a night ;) but wait!

Well, this is a Web(bed) site, isn’t it?

I’m leary of that issue as it seems it be a test bed for RealID.

Geeze is this me being home now or what?

Poor Hill. That’s when she needed to prove commander-in-chiefness.

i know … it’s sad

Now that slogan I like. But might get mixe up with pommes frites Lee-bray.

The library of libertarian french fries, scheduled to open soon at SMU. Prolly free too, if you don’t count the time cost.

If punaise still here, how do you distinguish french fries from fried apples in French? Surely there is a precise and logical way.

Poor Hill. That’s when she needed to prove commander-in-chiefness.

Yep. She has been off-balance going back months.
Obama was unforeseeable.

If someone occupies a position on the political chessboard that can’t be won except to move to the left of the person occupying that space one cedes that space to them and moves the OTHER DIRECTION. One tries to capture the center to prevent the other wing from obtaining the voters that are less bound to ideological considerations.

The question is what it would take to get Nader support and/or that of his supporters. If one considers them a loss, so be it. If one consders them in play, then one has to pander to them. It looks to me that they are in play.

how do you distinguish french fries from fried apples in French? Surely there is a precise and logical way.

pomme comes from pomme de terre -(apple in the ground). I guess it’s considered to be obvious, never encountered fried apples.

I put up something on the last thread in which Black Commentator seriously vetted Obama in the 2002 Senate Campaign. Obama was part of the coalition that helped elect Carol Mosley-Brown, he was in charge of the voter registration/get out the vote efforts. He was asked about reports that he was a member of the DLC, a claim that Obama vigorously denied…NO…repudiated…pointing out his opposition to NAFTA and his opposition to the Iraq War, amongst a bevy of other issues. I think his State record (on environment, anti-profiling, low-income housing, crime, etc.) is pretty exempliary. And recall that not only did he oppose the War, he also tried, with other progressives, to limit the damage the IAUF Resolution might have, by limiting its scope and Bush’s powers. They failed because other Democrats tabled and killed their Amendments.

Obama also supported a total ban on landmines and the use of cluster bombs…something that only other progressives voted for.

In the latter case alone one should remember that opposing the invasion of Iraq in 2002 was a political risk. Bush and Cheney were seriously distorting the public perception of the situation in Iraq, and opposition to the war outside of a few East and West coast cities was thought to be political suicide. No one gave Obama much of a chance to win the primaries after his stands against the invasion. But he still did well statewide.

By The Way…Ralph has a running mate! It’s not gonna be a Nader-Paul ticket! Or a Nader-Edwards. It’s gonna be…

drumroll “NADER-GONZALEZ” That would be Matt Gonzalez…not the erstwhile Attorney General.

Matt Gonzalez is a former San Francisco City Supervisor, Green Party member, and well respected within the Community progressives. Some wonder if this will hurt his local political career…who remembers Harold Stassen’s running mates, after all. Others feel it might at least raise his profile for a launch for a subsequent Statewide or Congressional run.

I completely agree. And, if he emphasizes that part of his record, Nader has no chance of taking votes away from him.

mmm. fried apples.

In response to bobschacht @ 44

Our concerns about Nader are really based on the politics of raw power, rather than progressive principle, aren’t they?

That would be a “NO.”

“All the candidates from both parties are the same…”
Famous last words.

Well, that’s what I thought, too. Until Pelosi took impeachment off the table. Now I wonder if the Democratic Party is in bed with the same Corporatocracy as the Republicans, and Nader is making more sense.

Did I mention how DISGUSTED I am with Nancy Pelosi and the Democratic Leadership? Take a look at Glenn Greenwald’s Dirty Dozen “Bipartisan” bills. Explain to me Nancy Pelosi’s kissy-poo attempts at “cooperating” with President Bush because she says Americans want to see the parties work together.

Lately, the House has FINALLY looked like it might have a backbone after all, but the jury is still out.

Did I mention how disgusted I am that Pelosi has taken impeachment off the table? Even when it has become obvious beyond all doubt that this administration is breaking the law almost every day?

Remember these words when a Democrat gets elected President, but then declines to prosecute Republican felonies since 2000 for the sake of “National Unity”.

Bob in HI

Well, this Two Minute Hate looks pretty much the same as the Two Minute Hates that Markos conducts every so often. It’s remarkable to me, when Nader’s name comes up, how many Democrats suddenly sound like Freepers.

In 2000 I voted for Nader in California — a safe state. In 2004 I voted for Kerry, agreeing to try it the Democrats’ way. I’ve been toying with the idea of holding my nose and voting for Obama, filled with dismay that Kucinich and Edwards have dropped out.

But I have to tell you all that every time I read a bunch of Democrats venting about Nader I am filled with so much disgust that I contemplate vowing never to vote Democrat ever again.

But that would be irrational, wouldn’t it? It wouldn’t be strategic.

So let me give you all some advice instead. If you want to prevent Nader from siphoning off votes from the Democratic candidate, make the Democratic Party more attractive. Try try try to think of something that the Democratic Party could possibly concede to liberals. It’s called pragmatism when you’re conceding things to the Republicans, in order to win over the swing voters.

Well I’m a swing voter, and I have to say that the boot to the face schtick is not winning me over so much.

I voted for Gore in 2000 but the idea that Nader and his supporters were responsbile for Gore’s loss is absurd. This lie was invented by the media. A media I might add that went out of it’s way to help Bush defeat Gore in 2000 and a media that was hostile to Edwards in 2008 when he tried to run on a progressive platform.

I’m glad that Ralph is out there pushing our Democrats to be more progressive and I refuse to buy into the media BS that Ralph should be shunned. Why do we keep falling for this obvious BS? If we are so worried that Ralph Nader will prevent our nominee from winning then maybe we don’t have the right nominee. Ralph Nader has every right to run and we do ourselves no favors by attacking him.

I do too.

I really wish that more Americans would get up and vote.

How can one blame Nader when so many were (and still are!) uninvolved/myopic/uninformed???

Is Nader really “out there pushing our Democrats to be more progressive”, or does he show up once every four years to stick it to them?

I’m pretty sympathetic to your and barryr’s arguments about Nader, and I’ve defended him before.

While it’s cathartic to hear him say things that are true about the Democrats on “Meet the Press”, I find it sinister that this man, who heads no real political movement, is giving a half hour of prime airtime by this corporate network that won’t put a liberal or progressive on its round tables.

moderators: please make “While it’s cathartic” “But while it’s cathartic”…

Gee, and I thought FDL was a more genteel blog than the right wing nuttery like drudge or something.

Post #43 – The clips were funny, but if Anonymous can take on scientology, why not Nader? I think Nader should take priority. How can we contact this Anonymous in order to submit a request for a project revision?

Anonymous is not your personal army.

Join Anonymous’ second worldwide protest of the Church of Scientology on March 15.

We are Anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not Forgive.

We do not Forget.

Expect us.

I don’t think so, I voted for Gore, I voted for Kerry, I voted for Edwards, I voted for JFK abut I will not vote for any Democrata until Pelosi, Conyers, Leahy et al do their civic duty and protect this constitution of these United States.

The clips were funny, but if Anonymous can take on scientology, why not Nader? I think Nader should take priority. How can we contact this Anonymous in order to submit a request for a project revision?

Anonymous is not your personal army.

Join Anonymous for the second worldwide protest of the Church of Scientology on March 15. Google “youfoundthecard.com”

We are Anonymous.

We are Legion.

We do not forgive.

We do not forget.

Expect us.

The clips were funny, but if Anonymous can take on scientology, why not Nader? I think Nader should take priority. How can we contact this Anonymous in order to submit a request for a project revision?

Anonymous is not your personal army.

There was a time when Nader was on TV a lot, and when he got called to testify before Congress. That doesn’t happen anymore (except when Nader is running for president). In Gaming the Vote, the author describes how both President Clinton and Vice President Gore refused to meet with Nader back in the 90s.

I would put to you that what has changed is the media and the Democratic Party. They have learned how to neutralize people like Nader by freezing them out.

I think it is more likely that Nader continues to fight for the causes he believes him year-round, but you don’t hear about it because he’s in a virtual “free-speech zone”.

Ralphie Boy’s ego is so much larger than his Love-O-Country , , , ” Only I can save the World…” he rants

For a progressive site, there are a lot of cloistered views expressed here. Nader is an amazing American icon; a true hero whose efforts led to the clean air we breath and the clean water we drink, among many other regulations that the under-30 crowd appears to take for granted. For those who still blindly believe that Nader cost Gore the 2000 election, why don’t we just eliminate all trappings of democracy and just anoint your chosen idol as President?

As much as I respected Al Gore, he faced a very hostile media that didn’t cut him any breaks and who instead fawned over a cipher that they preferred having a drink with instead of the boring, wonkish but highly experienced Gore. Because of this fixation on superficiality by the media and by enough of the American public, Gore even lost his home state. And it is Nader who gets blamed for being the spoiler – not the superficial and biased media or public or the Supreme Court. Anyone who has viewed the documentary A Unreasonable Man will likely come away with deep respect for Nader, as brutally honest and principled a person as any; a modern day equivalent of Diogenes. We all know that the current democratic candidates will pay lip-service to many of the causes that progressives hold dearly, and yet we repeatedly pin our hopes on them because the alternative is so much worse. Yes, the alternative is disastrous, but it is because how bad things are today that a woman and a Black man have a shot at the Presidency. Nader and his supporters have no illusions that he could upset the entrenched corrupt 2-party establishment, but they are not giving up on their principles and I greatly respect them for this.

“A media I might add that went out of it’s way to help Bush defeat Gore in 2000 and a media that was hostile to Edwards in 2008 when he tried to run on a progressive platform.”

History repeats itself. The hostility that Gore faced is now magnified and focussed on Hillary. In addition to FOX “News”, I refuse to watch MisogynistNBC any more.

““How about that Ralph Nader, ladies and gentlemen? He looks like …”

This, in a nutshell, is why we end up with terrible disasters like Bush as our leader. He looked like …someone you could comfortably hang out and drink beer with. The superficiality in our media only reflects our superficial culture.