On September 11, 2001, many in the US heard for the first time about Al Qaeda and its leadership. That introduction came through a violent and heart rending attack on American soil. But this conflict is intertwined with American and western foreign policy and national security decisions over decades.
The roots of this conflict are not new. It is almost as old as the mountains and valleys out of which the tribal rivalries and fiery fundamentalist clerics preach power and a return to the past. We fail to learn the lessons of history, and with that failure, we continue to endanger ourselves and others across the globe.
One such place is Pakistan’s Swat Valley, at the foot of the Himalayas in the border region with Afghanistan, a place of great beauty and pristine mountain lakes. But also a place of great poverty and neglect, and a rising sense of hopelessness and fear on which radical clerics have begun to prey, taking advantage of the desperation to pull in more and more followers and make a grab at taking power from the centralized government of Pakistan.
It is here that David Montero begins his story in FRONTLINE/World’s "Pakistan: State of Emergency." And it is a documentary well worth considering in all of its broad implications for American foreign policy, military and national security decisions to come. If we keep repeating the same mistakes, we will keep living through even worse failures.
David reports for the Christian Science Monitor, and recently did a superb series for them on the Swat Valley that was the precursor to this documentary. In Part I of the series, he addressed the economic and administrative failures in the region that a local radical cleric was exploiting to increase his power base. Part II addressed the more moderate influences in the Swat Valley asking the Pakistani government to intervene before violence began, in an area that had already begun to simmer toward a boiling point — and the failures of the Pakistani government to act. And in Part III, David reported on the dangers for girls’ schools in Pakistan under this radicalized power environment, saying:
In what appears to be an escalating spree over the last year, extremists have bombed at least four girls’ schools and circulated violent threats warning girls to stay at home. While no girls or school staff have been killed, girls in some areas have stopped attending classes – marking a direct blow to Pakistan’s national enterprise of "enlightened moderation," which posits female education as a central pillar.
Pakistan finds itself at a precarious tipping point: Tremendous gains have been made in female education in recent years, but a considerable gender gap remains. Extremists’ efforts to undermine education for women, who are historically one of Pakistan’s most potent forces of moderation, could further empower Pakistan’s growing ranks of Islamist militants.
"Because girls are the ones suffering from these oppressive ideas, if they are educated they will be a better ally in the promotion of liberal ideas and secularism," says Farzana Bari, who heads the gender studies department at Quaid-e-Azam University in Islamabad.
The continuing wave of attacks could tilt Pakistan’s sensitive political balance, observers say, and hurt crucial economic development efforts. As female education improves, infant mortality rates tend to decrease, family health improves, national incomes rise, and female citizens become more politically active and aware of their rights, say development experts.
We have discussed Three Cups of Tea, and its author’s quest to build moderate schools for girls throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan. The despair that so many in this region have felt from the government’s neglect of their educational and safety needs create a vaccuum, which power-hungry radical clerics and their followers are more than happy to fill, building madrassahs which indoctrinate rather than educate. Questions are discouraged, and challenge is eliminated altogether over time. You can see one such cleric, the so-called "Radio Mullah" interviewed by David in this clip (YouTube).
This, in turn, breeds more hatred and violence, where hope and potential could well have been planted instead.
The United States government has literally poured billions of American tax dollars into Pakistan, with no real accountability on how that money has been spent. Imagine for a moment if just a small portion of those funds had been spent to build schools in these areas. (This recent NPR report highlights this schools issue.) Imagine if US policy was focused on long-term strategy and forward-thinking initiatives instead of cowboy diplomacy and payoffs to nowhere.
There are any number of questions which might be asked about the repercussions of what we are doing — and not doing — in this region of the world. David Montero, the Christian Science Monitor and FRONTLINE/World make a good start at asking some of them. The documentary will be broadcast this evening at 9 pm ET (check local listings) on PBS.
And with that, I welcome David Montero to FDL. And open the floor for your questions and discussion.
David Montero is a foreign correspondent for The Christian Science Monitor and FRONTLINE/World. He has covered religion, politics, and extremism from Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, and has written for The New York Times, The Nation, and others. Between 2005 and 2007, he was the Pakistan correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor, and traveled widely throughout Pakistan’s North West Frontier to cover the story of Pakistan’s rising Taliban. During that time, he also reported and produced his first Rough Cut video for FRONTLINE/World, about the Pakistani government’s secret system of disappearing terrorism suspects. Pakistan: State of Emergency, which airs on Feb. 26th, is his first broadcast piece. He is currently based in Cambodia.
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Welcome, David — so happy to have you here to discuss your work and your reporting.
Thank you. And thank you for having me. It’s great to be here.
David — one of the big questions that I had in reading through all of your most recent work on the region — and so much of the background material that I had — was how we could miss so many important historical lessons in our conduct of foreign policy and national security strategy.
As you say int he YouTube up top, the Pashtuns have never lost a battle on their own soil. Ever. The British, the Soviets, and so many others through the years learned that lesson the hard way. What other areas of concern have you seen in your on-the-ground reporting that need more discussion here?
A major concern is this: liberal, democratic elements – political parties, NGOs, think thanks – exist and thrive in Pakistan’s North West Frontier Province. But the government of Pervez Musharraf has failed to work with them. In some cases, he’s actively tried to outstrip their authority. The elections last week will likely change this, but it’s a concern that liberal forces have actually been dis-empowered in the areas where they’re need most
Also, the issue with girls’ schools is a particularly important one on so many levels, and one that we ignore at our peril — because it isn’t just this generation but also the next which is substantially impacted by a failure to educate both boys and girls. Can you talk a bit more about the tug of war that is ongoing between the more radical clerics and the moderate forces that support education?
Aloha, David! Now that Musharref has lost the elections what might we expect in the near term…?
Just saw this at BBC today, a small glimmer that may have large consequences throughout the Islamic world.
David,
to what extent, if any, does the opium trade effect the situation on the graound in the Swat Valley?
Also can you describe the issues relating to the “border” beween Pakistan and Afganistan which from a distance seems to be so porous as to be virtually non existant, or am I just showing me ignorance?
Sure. The struggle mimics, of course, what we’ve seen in Afghanistan, which is that the Taliban and their fundamentalist allies do not support girls’ education, and in many cases have actively tried to stop it – either through preaching or more violent measures, like bombs. But the violence underscores a positive development in Pakistan: girls in poor, conservative areas are going to school, in record numbers. Pakistan still has a long way to go, but it’s made historical gains. The government is committed to sending girls to school, and so are parents. The Taliban see that. The problem is, the Taliban could easily win the struggle if they step up their campaign, which thankfully they haven’t.
Will Musharraf actually hand power over…?
David, it is great to have the opportunity to learn more about Pakistan and your experiences observing this instensive situation. How do you see India’s role in this? I ask this because of the tense relationship between the two countries.
Welcome, David! I’ve enjoyed reading your articles. Has anyone tried to sell the idea of girl’s education by promoting the improvement of child mortality to the fathers. I’d assume that most fathers (and mothers) want to have and raise living children. And most would welcome a reduction in maternal mortality.
David,
Thank you for being here and for shedding some light on this subject.
I have a background in anthropology, and firmly believe that cultures have the right to evolve on their own terms and at their own pace. However, what you describe happening with female education in Pakistan is highly distressing. This must be an issue you witness and grapple with repeatedly and I’d be interested in more of your thoughts on this.
And thank you, Christy, for highlighting this broadcast. I probably wouldn’t have known about it otherwise.
Good question about elections. But just to clarify: Musharraf hasn’t lost. He wasn’t running. He already won another presidential term of five years. But his party lost in parliamentary elections. It is hoped that the elections will bring big changes. The parties that won have widespread popular support, something Musharraf never did. They should be able to more easily effect change because people are on board with them. The most important issue, for the U.S, is how they’ll tackle extremism. And that’s an area where a lot of change could happen: the newly elected parties have said they’d prefer to use dialogue and discussion to address extremism, rather than military might. So they’re being in power could change alot regarding how extremism is fought in Pakistan.
What is the origin of the arrogance that leads folks to believe that they can ignore history in place like Pakistan and Afghanistan?
If someone has even a cursory reading of Kipling (getting past the “white man’s burden”) and if they had followed the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, doesn’t it become obvious that trying to subdue these areas with force is unworkable?
Yes, many NGOs and health service organizations in Pakistan – local and foreign – continue to actively promote the benefits of girls’ education. In most cases, parents are excited to learn more about it. Parents themselves in Pakistan’s poor border areas are not against sending their girls to school. But in most cases, they’re never offered the option. When girls’ education is explained to fathers, they often become the greatest proponents of it.
Is violence the main tool of the Taliban or do they try to preach themselves into “control” from the mosques?
Ellen — have you read Three Cups of Tea? That was one of the biggest improvements for some of the smaller villages as an outgrowth of the girls getting an education, some of whom went on to get medical training following their basic education. It can make such an enormous difference over generations, especially as the mothers of these girls become more empowered themselves while watching their daughters bloom as they learn. One of the things that Mortenson talked about doing was building an adjacent “women’s center” near each new girls’ school so that women int he village could gather and exchange ideas and talk through problems for themselves as another layer of empowerment.
It’s amazing how, when you listen to what people actually want and need, how much further a little help can take them.
Also, how much of the region is the Taliban after? Do they want an autonomous state like the Kurds, or are they on a mission to convert the world to their brand of thinking (or non thinking if you will)?
Are there locals groups who are fighting them?
Certainly, history is rife with good lessons that many have ignored regarding this area. My surmise would be that many people making these decisions, at least outside of Pakistan, haven’t availed themselves of the history. Those who have find that they’re admonitions fall on deaf ears. It might also be that some strategists suppose that advanced weaponry and greater intelligence gathering will make a difference.
Thanks, puravida — we spend so much time talking about the “shock and awe” possibilities inthis country. But in terms of long-term success, the hard and effective work ought to be coming from the difficult building blocks of diplomacy, education, and help on the ground on so many different levels at once. Anything we can do to highlight that sort of discussion is well worth our time.
*gasp* what a novel idea! Too bad Shrub didn’t try it…!
In a nutshell what is the specific interest of the USA in the region?
Sounds like I need to get Three Cups of Tea! Thanks.
I’m afraid that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld et al are deluded by an arrogant strain of American exceptionalism when it comes to the Middle East, particularly the Pashtun region. (They aren’t too swift anyplace else, either.)
How far is the Korengal Valley from the Swat Valley?
Good question: The Taliban is different than Al-Qaeda in that their agenda is purely local: they want control of Pashtun lands, an area that straddles Pakistan and Afghanistan. It is more like the situation of the Kurds, although it is rarely discussed as such. The Taliban are a Pashtun ethnic phenomenon. Part of their goal is religious, but it is also certainly territorial. I don’t think they themselves have mapped out how much area they want to control. But certainly where the bulk of Pashtuns live – the area around and in between Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan – they want control of that. And they have seized a good portion of it already, further south, in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas.
I think the American administration is beginning, finally to realize. One example: they’ve earmarked $750 million dollars in development/aid money for Pakistan’s poorest areas along the Afghan border. I think as US support for Musharraf wanes, so too is the linear thinking that this problem requires a military solution only. The White House is broadening it’s reach not only to political allies in Pakistan – beyond Musharraf – but also its strategies. It would seem to be a healthy, if tardy, response.
David, have the micro-lending practices that earned a Nobel Prize for the Grameen Bank and Mohammad Yunus in 2006 been tried in Pakistan?
You asked: “In a nutshell what is the specific interest of the USA in the region?”
You mean, other than the fact that it’s adjacent to Afghanistan, a tinder box of potential conflagration between Pakistan/India/Afghanistan, and a number of former Soviet republics and China, a breeding ground and training center right now along with being a hiding place for a number of al qaeda operatives, among just a few reasons? Or the fact that Pakistan has a nuclear arsenal which would be an enormous threat were radicals who hate the US to seize control of it? Or the fact that the poor in this region deserve better in terms of human rights and we’d like to help make that happen, including better rights for women? Or something more than that?
David;
Please explain the influence of the Central Intelligence Branch (NCI?) in this region of Pakistan. Allies of the leaders in this region, so, what can the government really do?
Thanks for your work.
Too bad the Bush Administration didn’t listen to all the experienced voices that were telling them that back in 2001. But all the woulda, coulda, shouldas in the world won’t buy us back what we could have already done by now had they been smarter policy-wise. As frustrating as it is to look at where we could be had they done so, it’s good to know that some marter choices may be made — whether through the forced hand of a weakened Musharaff or whatever else the catalyst may be.
No, the Taliban have made a name for themselves by offering services which the Pakistani state, either because of corruption or inefficiency, can’t. Police in Pakistan are notoriously corrupt, and the courts notoriously slow. Bribes are common. So people go to the Taliban to settle disputes. The Taliban also offer protection from armed mafias. What is alarming about the Taliban is that, in some areas the Pakistani state is so dysfunctional that the Taliban don’t need violence. They just fill in the vacuum.
David — I’d appreciate it if you could share a little background with everyone on how you came to be able to interview the “Radio Mullah.” That was such an enormous “get” for any journalist, but especially a Western one — and I’d love to hear about how the interview came to be and what you thought of him and what he had to say to you.
How much does the damaged reputation of the US in Pakistan and the surrounding region hurt efforts to take this broader approach? I could envision more than a few serious political players saying “we’ll wait until January 2009, thank you, when we’ve got someone else in the White House to deal with.”
That was also how the Taliban got their hold on power in Afghanistan at the fall of the Soviet occupation, isn’t it? It was only after they had really consolidated that control that the more violent aspects — the public punishments, beheadings, and the like, and well as the subjugation of women within the society — became wholly dominant in most areas of Afghanistan. They began by building up services and offering a sort of rigidly enforced peace and security apparatus, along with payments for teachers and such (financed by backers who later became Al Qaeda leadership, among others, as I understand it).
Well said.
And David thank you for taking the time to discuss these things.
Welcome David.
Can you shed some light on nonprofits and NGOs who are focusing on the tribal peoples in the area and seem to have a counter perspective on the region than the US and other western allies?
I am thinking of Sarah Chayes who doesn’t see the Taliban as much a problem as the lack of business opportunity for the local people. She seems to have a clear understanding of how to work with the people without imposing Western values. Also, can you address the effectiveness of Knightsbridge, bringing supplies to the interior peoples of war torn countries so the people can assist themselves without falling to the mercy of extreme elements?
Is the US military still using anthropologist to “infiltrate” the tribal people? What do you think of this?
I think it has taken the Bush administration a long time to catch on. But, put into perspective, making choices in Pakistan is scary. I think we’ve seen a policy of inertia because of fear. If you suddenly switch tracks on Musharraf, will the country fall apart, will the nukes be safe. It’s taken a while for the media, strategists and others to explain that, no, Pakistan won’t fall apart if you broaden your ties beyond Musharraf. Now that they do see this, the coming months should be very interesting. Things could dramatically change. But we’ll need to see how Musharraf will react. He is still the president, and technically holds a lot of power.
Christy,
As a human I would like to see a peaceful world where the different people can live together or next to one another.
I am not sure what the “real” threat by AQ to the USA is… any more than they weather underground was. How many billions do we spend on a bunch of mischief makers? And can’t we find a less “confrontational” approach… other than shock and awe to deal with this?
We need to work for nuclear disarmament. And we need to lead not demand others not go there. That’s hypocritical.
My concern about Afghanistan is that is producing most of the world’s heroine and the CIA is probably knee deep in poppies. The Turks are.
We recognized Kosovo and their desire for self determination, but not the Kurds… what’s with that?
Why don’t WE let the UN lead the way in human rights issues?
Like Hamas they are not all bad. So the government needs to be supported and from what you describe this is “nation building” humanitarian stuff. We should help with cops and courts and schools and so forth. Peace corps programs!
From what I am hearing the Taliban are nutty fundies but not a threat the USA.
And they got rid of poppies too.
If they weren’t so much from the dark ages and so repressive of the human spirit would we even care?
About meeting the radio mullah: I’m lucky to have a very good friend who is from the area around Swat, the valley where the mullah took over. I’d read about Maulana Fazlullah, and told my friend that I wanted to go to Swat. He spent a long time negotiating with friends of the mullah’s to meet with me. Finally, one morning, the mullah agreed. We didn’t tell him that I was American. We simply said I was foreign; he didn’t seem to care. Ultimately, the Taliban are media savvy, like any organization. They saw as a sign of their own prestige, I would guess, that a foreign journalist had come to see them. I was immediately struck by two things about the mullah: that he was very young – only 33 – and very ignorant, in a brutish, stubborn sort of way. When I met him, 15,000 people used to come every Friday to hear him preach. I expected a charismatic leader. He hardly seemed such. When I asked him if he supported violence, he said he was just preaching and that was not a crime. He talked around most of the things I asked, maintaining his best face. But months later, as you can see in our show tonight, his real agenda came out – and that was certainly violent.
Because we have an enormous amount of influence, money and power as a result of our GDP, military positioning and other aspects of who we are and always have been as a nation. And with that power comes a concommitant responsibility to try and shape international diplomacy and our reaction to the rest of the world toward better and more humanist policies wherever and whenever possible.
Otherwise, we retreat behind the same sort of idiotic, blindered shell that Pat Buchannon advocates, and we end up right back where we started in WWI. Start by reading some of the writings of Woodrow Wilson on the formation of the League of Nations, and then on to the formation of the UN and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights — none of which would have been possible had we not stepped up to the plate and led on the need for them. International law? We helped push for it. Rights for women in nations where they are oppressed? We have led on that issue int he past as well. Pretending problems don’t exist or looking the other way doesn’t make them get better — it only makes them worse, and that ripples outward toward us whether we like it or not.
David, which of the NGOs do you think is most effective? I’m sure most of them are filled with worthy goals and dedicated folks, but it’s hard to tell from this far away which really works in this environment.
If it weren’t for 9/11, we would not care about the Taliban, just like we don’t care about most of Africa. It’s not that they are backwards or repressive. There’s nothing there that we want. Besides, we have plenty of our own nutty fundies already.
This seems to be a problem in many parts of the world. I paid my share of bribes to keep safe, get transportation, even exit the country while with my visa and airline ticket in hand while in Southeast Asia. “Cross my palm” seems to be quite universal. Here we call such people corporate lobbyists.
That is why it is imperative that we choose very carefully who we want to represent us. Great wisdom is needed to lead not jingoism.
David:
Did you by any chance visit Waziristan at all?
this is where i disagree – with power comes a different kind of responsibility, imo. i don’t like the option of ignoring the rest of the world, and i don’t like the option of attempting to “shape” the world. we have other options.
Absolutely — it is an enormous problem, for example, that so many of our Ambassadorships in the last few years have been assigned in accordance with campaign donation abilities and not diplomatic skill. And very, very unfortunate on so many levels for all of us.
The Taliban are certainly a threat to the U.S. in that they’ve partnered with Al-Qaeda. I don’t think the Taliban are concerned with bringing their fight beyond the Pakistan-Afghanistan region. But their Al-Qaeda allies certainly are. It might be that the Taliban are not much of a threat to the U.S. directly, but it would be a regional disaster to allow them to grow in power along Pakistan’s tribal belt. The Taliban have carved out a space for themselves in that area. And that has and is attracting jihadis from around the globe – like a safe haven.
I think we need to get out from center stage in the world and work WITH other nations THROUGH the United Nations.
Out foreign policy is done with pointy end of a gun barrel and the right wants the USA to be “FEARED” as a super power. Personally I don’t like the idea.
Ultimately the UN or other regional groups of nations will have to deal with these problems. It’s not in our interest and people around the world don’t want out “imposed” solutions on them. We leave them in worse shape than before we stepped in to help. Witness VietNam, Iraw, Afghanistan, Haiti, you name it. We are not making friends in the 3rd world.
Such as? I didn’t say we needed to shape them in our own image — but we do have a responsibility to hold firm on human righs and rule of law, on which we stood on very solid ground for years prior to the Bush Administration in a number of cases. There is a LOT of repair work to be done in terms of our own image after these folks get out of office, I’m afraid. But that doesn’t mean that we cannot also hold out carrots and sticks whenever necessary in terms of aid and other agenda issues to request that, say, education be more of a priority where it has not been one at all in the Swat Valley. Especially for girls.
What Selise said.
This is NOT our world to shape in OUR image.
We are only 300 million among 6 billion
No, unfortunately, I’ve never visited Waziristan [an area where the Taliban and Al-Qaeda are believed to have set up their new base of operations]. There are two ways to get into Waziristan: one is to fly on a Pakistani military helicopter, go to a military base, and listen a lecture given by a military official. That always seemed pretty hollow to me. You can’t talk to people in the area. It’s an experience the Pakistani military completely controls. So I avoided it.
The other way is to sneak in. I pondered this several times, but local friends and journalists pointed out that it was simply not worth the risk. You might take some good pictures, and add some good color to your story. But those are small benefits compared to the risks.
I’m sorry, Sander — at what time did I say our policies should be imposed on other nations? Please do not read your own personal agenda or bias into what I’m saying. I said help shape — not demand by fiat. What have I ever advocated that our government act by fiat in any matter — here or abroad?
We blockaded Cuba and “contained” them.. hahahaha.
I don’t believe AQ is a threat to the USA if we stay out of the ME. That’s what they have said.
I think we would make the same statements about “them” if they came here to exploit our resources.
I don’t think we should even “help shape” anything.
We should offer humanitarian and technical assistance to other countries. Let them shape themselves. Isn’t that democracy?
We have a guest who is here to discuss his documentary — if you want to discuss the fundamentals of diplomacy and American foreign policy, let’s save it for another thread, eh?
David,
Is there a way to get inside the head of someone like the radio mullah one to one in a non threatening manner that would enlighten. I know in Islam it is customary to not insult someone when pointing out a disagreement in all manner of things, polite suggestion instead of the hammer of conflict. If this has been asked or incorrect as an assumption I apologize.
David — have you travelled to the area since the elections were held? And, if so, is the feeling of hope and/or enthusiasm for change that we saw in the couple of days after the election holding?
Basically,
My sense is the USA is not helping things in the region, but our presence is inflaming them. It allows the crazy mullahs to frame us as the great satan.
We need to be part of the soultion and not the problem.
And why don’t we do what we do in conjunction with the EU and Japan and so forth? Don’t those nations have a similar interest in a peaceful world?
I am sorry. Please accept my apology.
Wow – thank you, Sir, for making this film. I look forward to watching it tonight on my local PBS station.
Frontline always does great hard hitting journalism. One of the few things worth watching on the boob toob. This promises to be excellent. I be watching for sure.
About opium in Swat, it’s not an issue there. Opium is not grown in Pakistan, although it is processed and trafficked through Pakistan. Some of the money from the opium trade in Afghanistan may have been given to the Taliban forces in Swat. That’s never been determined.
The main issue regarding the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan – which was created in the 1800s – is that the Pashtuns don’t recognize it. They’ve migrated and traded over that border and those mountains for thousands of years. The border is another policy area that needs to be re-conceptualized. Pakistan has been pressured by the US to stop the flow of fighters back and forth over the border. But policing the border or putting up a fence has not worked.
Our foreign policies in non-Westernized countries can be nothing but a failure. The people making the policies have no clue about the countries they want to influence.
One of the requirements for anyone working in the foreign policy arena is that they spend at least two years living in a culture completely foreign to them and live among the people not in some gated community or five star hotel. If you don’t know a culture experientially, you can’t make policies of any kind for them, that even includes their medical facilities.
+1
Suzanne — near the bottom of the post, there is a link to a YouTube excerpt from the piece that really gives you a good flavor of David’s reporting in the region. You also get that from the links to his three-part series in the CSM. We need more of this in-depth look journalism on this region — because far too few Americans only hear from the Bush Administration on how frightened they ought to be, which gives a rather lopsided and ill-informed glimpse at things.
We have seen so many issues crop up over the years from the artificially created border remnants from the British Raj and from WWII — in Pakistan/Afghanistan, between India/Pakistan with Kashmir, and all across the Middle East as well.
Amazing how we can manage to utterly muddle a region in which conflict had already been an art form for centuries, but we have.
I haven’t been to Pakistan since the elections were held. I left a month before the elections. But I’ve stayed on top of them from here in the States. I think the enthusiasm is still very high. The winning parties still have to put together a new government. So there’s a lot of excitement about that. But more than that, after nine years of military rule, it seems that democracy has new life. And people are certainly excited about that. That spirited response should last for a while yet.
Thanks! I hope you enjoy the show tonight. I’ve got to run now, but I’ve really enjoyed talking to everyone. Thank you for your questions. And please post more comments or questions on FRONTLINE/World’s website at: http://www.pbs.org/frontline/world.
Thanks and have a good day everyone.
Thanks so much for being here today David — and for the great reporting you have been doing. Look forward to watching the documentary this evening!
Thanks for visiting today David. Look forward to seeing your report tonight and following your future reports.
Thanks very much Christy. It was great to be here!
OT maybe
David
When I was young I saw some photographs by David Douglas Duncan. Among them was a picture of a Shepard with a flowing white beard and hair like moses, in the background was the Hindu Kusch(sp), it was such a beautiful picture, I have always wanted to go and stand where he stood and it has made an everlasting impression on me. It must truly be a gift to have gone where you have gone.
Thanks, Christy. I’ve got the utube open am watching it now.
Sir, I read early this morning a news post here at FireDogLake that was about a CSM report that aid workers in Ethiopia were prevented about talking about what they see happening to the people in that country. Are you finding similar threats from the Taliban to aid workers in Pakistan?
Thank you David. I look foreward to seeing your documentary tonight. Documentaries are a great gift to all of us and a wonderful record of events.
How are these crazy border disputes going back centuries to be resolved… they often seem to be artificial.. ie not related to the ethnic collections, but imposed by imperial powers. The Brits carved up the ME and it seems to be a disaster because of that… among other things?????
Maddy, my husband gave me a big beautiful book of David Douglas Duncan photographs when we had our youngest son (Douglas Duncan). I remember that picture of the shepherd. Now I’ve got to go find that book!
Oh, Maddy — that sounds lovely! I’ve always wanted to go there, too — I hear the lakes ringed by the mountains are absolutely breathtaking.
Mr. Montero, Thank you for your good work.
My small experience in traveling is the joy of meeting a new culture head on, and it has never made sense to me why one would travel and stay somewhere that has only those you see everyday of your life, great point, that I took to heart long ago.
Sitting in Mecca, beside some swimming pool talking about the great deal you got on a widget Home Depot. Blech
Would you please post it, I have been looking for it and haven’t found it, I would love you forever 707
TexasEllen @ 80
My email wbree at bendcable dot com
Sander this is so true. Nothing was more impressive to me when I lived in Java than the layers of invaders who came through this island for thousands of years, all leaving some small remnant of ever having been there. The jungle swallowed them up.
But the most impressive to me was the Dutch. After 350 years there by 1970, 23 years after the Indonesians threw them out, there was barely a trace they had ever been there so minor was their cultural impact. However, the one lasting legacy of the Dutch, was the extreme poverty they left the country in which their lands were stolen and replaced with large coffee and tea plantations.
If the Pashtuns had more political autonomy within Pakistan, and greater participation in the Afghan central government (considering they’re the largest ethnic group within Afghanistan), would the Taliban problem diminish? Also, the recent Pakistani elections gave a trouncing to the religious fundamentalists in NWPF. Significiance?
Agree completely there. I spent a little over a week — back when it was stil the Soviet Union — in Moscow, staying with students from all over the world at a Model UN conference and it was wonderful in terms of the interaction we all got to have. We stayed at a Soviet student hostel, and I would not have traded it for the luxury accommodations of a Western-tourist hotel for anything. (Well, maybe for the breakfast the morning we had warmed Vienna sausages and peas — or at least, what looked like that. blech. But otherwise… *g*)
Quakergirl & Maddy, wouldn’t it make sense to encourage young people with an interest in the foreign service to serve in the Peace Corps first. For some it might be the sort of immersion that leads to wisdom. For others, it might just do a little good in the world on the way to doing something completely different.
I know several Peace Corp people from many years ago. They are incredible. The experience truly made them wiser and more involved citizens later in their lives. They keep me sane.
My daughter spent six months in Spain going to school at the university there being taught in Spanish, immersed in the culture, two of her friends from high school both joined the peace corp and worked in South America. One of them is a political science major.
These are the kind of people we need and the ones who give me hope, I know them personally and would be honored to have them represent us.
Do yuo see a parrallel between the chronic poverty in America by race that was identified in the 60’s civil rightd struggle?
The Ten Point Program
We want power to determine the destiny of our black and oppressed communities.
We want full employment for our people.
We want an end to the robbery by the capitalists of our Black Community.
We want decent housing, fit for the shelter of human beings.
We want decent education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society.
We want completely free health care for all black and oppressed people.
We want an immediate end to police brutality and murder of black people, other people of color, all oppressed people inside the United States.
We want an immediate end to all wars of aggression.
We want freedom for all black and oppressed people now held in U. S. Federal, state, county, city and military prisons and jails. We want trials by a jury of peers for all persons charged with so-called crimes under the laws of this country.
We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and people’s community control of modern technology.[21]
The Mazlow hierarchy of needs identifies human needs. In most cases when those needs are left unfulfilled violence seems to fill the void. Or a very ugly oppression exists. In Pakistan the oppressors are being resisted. Why not find a more humane solution. We know oppression leads to social revolution at least and violent reaction.
Education and opportunity like the micro loans:
Yunus is also the founder of Grameen Bank. In 2006, Yunus and the bank were jointly awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, is a different approach to using force to achieve cooperation.