And so am I….

good morning.

Good Morning EdwardTeller and Selise!

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson
http://www.samueljohnson.com/refuge.html

Patriotism free healthcare for the troops for the rest of their lives the same care Congress and Bush gets no paper work just an army id and you get treated. Lets see the GOP veto that.

just read a great piece from howard zinn i wanted to share….

What’s not gone, what occupies the press day after day, impossible to ignore, is the election frenzy.

This seizes the country every four years because we have all been brought up to believe that voting is crucial in determining our destiny, that the most important act a citizen can engage in is to go to the polls and choose one of the two mediocrities who have already been chosen for us. It is a multiple choice test so narrow, so specious, that no self-respecting teacher would give it to students.

And sad to say, the Presidential contest has mesmerized liberals and radicals alike. We are all vulnerable.

Is it possible to get together with friends these days and avoid the subject of the Presidential elections?

The very people who should know better, having criticized the hold of the media on the national mind, find themselves transfixed by the press, glued to the television set, as the candidates preen and smile and bring forth a shower of clichés with a solemnity appropriate for epic poetry.

Even in the so-called left periodicals, we must admit there is an exorbitant amount of attention given to minutely examining the major candidates.

a great reality check, imo. recommend reading the whole thing to get zinn’s larger point.

and a good morning to you, TCU!

Patriotism lets give the troops better college benefits, more money to spend at college, free on campus housing for their families and another two years paid schooling. They deserve it after putting up with stop loss orders!

Patriotism lets stop spending money on starwars and next generation weapons when our troops need the basics like bullet proof vests and armored vehicles. We must walk first before we run.

The 80’s, great piece but it goes back a we bit further than that. Can you tell me WHO lost China?

Patriotism is holding the press Judy Miller and the Politicians like Bush who lied us into war responsible.

Hi Raven I got some good comments on war profiteering toward the end of the last thread.

Well for that matter the late 30s & 40s when “America First” said FDR was selling out America to oppose the Nazis (or Jews per Lindberg in one infamous slip).

One could spend several posts going on about what the far right has been outrageously wrong about in American History.

Did you stay up all night? You were all alone in the last thread there for awhile before I came along…*g*

Morning all. This coming week should be somethin’ Let’s wrap the Dem primary already…Tired of all this sh*t…

I refer folks to Halbertstam’s “The Coldest Winter” about the Korean War and this very topic.

Man, you were on a roll!

Paul Krugman is off today.

This is the most unfortunate part of Bill Kristol’s column in the NYTimes today…

I say again: Progressives must not, repeat must not, let the Right and Rethugs appropriate the definition and use of words like patriotism…and things like Stars and Stripes…

What a fucking skunk!

Leave aside the claim that “speaking out on issues” constitutes true patriotism. What’s striking is that Obama couldn’t resist a grandiose explanation. Obama’s unnecessary and imprudent statement impugns the sincerity or intelligence of those vulgar sorts who still choose to wear a flag pin. But moral vanity prevailed. He wanted to explain that he was too good — too patriotic! — to wear a flag pin on his chest.

Kristol

Patriotism is shared sacrifice the poor and middle class go to war the least the rich could do is pay for it. When Hannibal invaded Rome Roman Senators volunteered for the army you can bet that the Roman army did not suffer from equipment or manpower shortages then.
There is a reason why countries draft the rich and powerful cause when its their kids on the front line the army suffers lack of nothing. Defeats are taken personally by the rich and powerful since its their kids and we get accountability. So far all the Generals, Rumsfeld and the NeoCons are skating away from responsibilty for their bad ideas. That would not happen if the Bush twins and Paris Hilton were in the Greenzone. There is another reason to draft the rich armies that do tend to WIN!
Rome beat Hannibal because everyone sacrificed on the Roman side while Hannibal possibly one of the best Generals ever had to rely on Mercs who had no personal stake in the war.
Why Bush is relying on Blackwater then is a mystery.

Yeah, that’s a pretty rich one coming from Bill Kristol.

I slept during the day:)

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
Ooh, theyre red, white and blue.
And when the band plays hail to the chief,
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, lord,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no senators son, son.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, no,

Yeah!
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, dont they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no millionaires son, no.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give?
Ooh, they only answer more! more! more! yoh,

It aint me, it aint me, I aint no military son, son.
It aint me, it aint me; I aint no fortunate one, one.

That’s how my life used to be when I was a grad student in the 1970s…

Thank You! I plan on recycling a lot of that material like Cato who kept saying Carthage must be destroyed at the end of every speech to the Roman Senate no matter what the subject of the speech was. Let Bill Kristol keep praising the war I want his war profiteering friends in jail!

Creedence! Holding Lighter in the air! Rock on!

amen.

Day by day I hear the voices rising
Started with a whisper like it did before
Day by day we count the dead and dying
Ship the bodies home while the networks all keep score

The GOP tries to save money in this war by trusting capitalists whose main goal is money and not patriotism. The GOP thinks that the *cough* free market can do things more cheaply than the army. First the free market is not free second capitalists are like scorpions its their nature to sting/steal if given an opportunity, third Government Bureaucracy is not the problem a well run bureaucracy like the French had under the Sun King and Napoleon or the Prussian bureaucracy of Bismarck or heck the bureaucracy Han Fe Tzu set up for the first Emperor of Ch’in or China all good conquerors need to be organized if they hope to follow through on grand plans.
We need Generals with real plans, We need organization loyal to the state not the dollar to support these plans.

Heck even the Mongols were organized!

We need Generals with real plans…

…to bring our troops home

Bill Kristol, Bobo, the Neocons, Bush,Milton Friedman and Leo Strauss seem in practice to be Nihilist though they would deny it.

there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator,
a “true morality” does not exist, and
objective secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has, in a sense, no truth, and no action is objectively preferable to any other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

We might as well let you run the thread this morning…Again, what else have you been up to all night besides hanging out with the ne’er-do-wells at FDL? *G*

Yeah! Sometimes the only thing you can do is stop despite your good intentions when every act just makes things worse. Bush had years to make things right now its time for him to stop. Well ok his intentions were not good.

H. L. Mencken added this to Johnson’s dictum: “But there is something even worse: it is the first, last, and middle range of fools.”

Oh goody 100 years of patriotism is a comin’.

Yerba Matte, Smokes and research Nihilism and Leo Strauss seem like to interesting subjects to research more later.

Yep the GOPers are one trick ponies with the patriotism. Christ all patriotism all the time on every channel if Bush pulls a coup. Pretty soon we would all be begging for an other writers strike.

if Bush pulls a coup

if has already happened. Now we have to take the damn country back.

Leo Strauss

Paul Wolfowitz’s mentor at the U of Chicago…

I can hear the drums in the background…

Patriotism, like religion, is best practiced at the personal level.

Yerba Matte,

my favorite when I was in Chile, along with los mitos…and pisco sours at night

Han Fe Tzu should not be confused with Sun Tzu, Han was a legalist philosopher and Ch’in was George Orwell’s real life Big Brother with the bureaucracy Han set up for him. Han is still not popular in China because of this, but he was effective.
The Bushies seem more Entropy, Nililist types who don’t care what happens to us, or in the future just so long as they get theirs now.

War profiteering if you can’t end the War, Democrats then you can at least go after the snakes making a buck off of our troops misery. Obama and Hilary should stop attacking each other and compete in attacking/putting GOPers in jail for war profiteering.
I think the American people would like that more than personal attacks:)

Milton Friedman was also a U of Chicago person is that school a citadel of evil or something?

Yes it is…Allan Bloom was there as well, of The Closing of the American Mind fame…God rest his soul…and sowas saul Bellow too, and God rest his soul too…

Where is a Hobbit with a ring when you need him:)

I always thought it was real important to display pictures or symbols of the things you value most on your bumper, mailbox, lapel, or whatever. I’m thinking about getting some mudflaps with my wife’s picture embossed.

BTW, MSNBC: is now doing Hill(ary) obit…via Andrea Mitchell

Good Morning pups!

Here’s what’s on Washington Journal this morning:
7:30am – Gov. Mark Sandford (R-SC)

8am – Douglas Schoen, Author, “Declaring Independence: The Beginning of the End of the Two-Party System”

8:30am – Garrett Evans, Survivor of Virginia Tech Shooting

9am – Alvaro Vargas Llosa, Independent Institute, Center on Global Prosperity Director

9:30am – Newspaper Articles & Viewer Calls

-the book by Daniel Schoen looks interesting to me.

The BO patriotism story began on AP with infamous Nedra Pickler (sp?). For LTE writers, here is an important fact.
The US CODE does not require the anthem to be saluted, only the pledge.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/…

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”, should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.

From the last thread
ThingsComeUndone February 25th, 2008 at 12:05 am
76
All the MSM tools particularly the GOP ones say that there is not that much difference between Hilary and Obama and that to motivate the base Hilary needs to attack Obama more? Mark Penn must be getting the Karl Rove blackberry emails because that seems where Hilary is headed.
Now then the Dem base is to the Left of Hilary and Obama we want the war over now we would rather not wait for a new president. We also want a healthcare plan like the 9/11 volunteers got in Cuba in the Mikel Moore film “Sicko”
diagnoses and treatment with no HMO hassles.
We don’t want Hilary to attack Obama, attack politics work for GOPers.
But going LEFT on the issues could have worked. I think it might be to late now. But who cares after what Mark Penn and the Center Dems have done to Hilary’s campaign after this election nobody will touch the politics of surrender/compromise or attack for the sake of attack politics.
I think that we have already created the conditions for victory and now must await it, to paraphrase Sun Tze.

Andrea Mitchell TOOL

Morning all
Kristols patriotism bolls down to senseless slaughter of the others. You know Krauts,Gooks,Japs and now Hagis . Always a simple dehumanizing word for others. Judging by a million dead Iraqis this here is a pretty patriotic endeavor.

Does anyone need links to CNN comments and AP? Or the background on this story? Kos has a rec’ed diary with all the links and some sample letter. Mine and TRex’s rules for LTE that I probably broke are c. 688.

It was my letter of the day.

Oh yes, Morning all, Attaturk/boy and Marion, what was for breakfast.

Now back to deadlines and lurking.

I love this post Attaturk

I honestly don’t understand the thinking of people who are going to base their vote on whether or not the candidate wears a flag pin on their lapel, it’s not going to get them into heaven anymore
with no apologies to John Prine
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1qE2vJdDw4 )

.
to digg this post to help get this discussion going

it’s the law i’m suppose to stand and put my hand over my heart?

Obama’s response:

As far as the American flag pin, I mean when we start getting into those definitions of patriotism that’s a debate I’m happy to have, because I will come right after them. This is a party that presided over a war in which our troops did not get the body armor that they needed, or sending troops over who were untrained because of poor planning, or are not fulfilling the veterans benefits that these troops need when they come home, or undermining our constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary.

That is a debate that I am very happy to have. We’ll see what the American people think is the true definition of patriotism is.

That is a wonderful response to the drivel coming from the Rethugs. I especially like his mentioning the Constitution and warrantless wiretapping. I think his people are starting to listen to us.

hey Elliott, saw you getting into things last night…*g*

you should put all your comments here and from the last thread into a long article, or into the chapter of a book manuscript. I often post comments here–from stuff I’m working on, just to test them out: some research, you know what I mean? *g*

Mika Brzezinski just said her hubby is a Rethug. Interesting

I hope you are talking about chit chatting on the oscar thread, otherwise I better close the drapes!

But she just said: “I always thought he had the heart of a Democrat.”

Today is self-disclosure day at MSNBC. WTF’s going on?

That’s what I was talking ’bout…*g* a certain kinda chitchat

Morning Attaturk, morning dawgs -

I think it was Sinclair Lewis who said that if fascism ever came to America it would come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

Adlai Stevenson was a great American.

I get the feeling that the national consciousness has figured out the cons game and is sick of it. I get the feeling that the more they do this type of thing, the deeper the hole they are in gets.

It isn’t going to work anymore. We’ve got a freight train bearing down on us, and the people that are going to be hit hardest are those red state working class Nascar Republicans with the McMansion and the Escalade. Those are the people that are finally waking up, and when they do, the Republican party as we know it will be finished.

Now I’m going to go read the comments.

Gas was $3.31 at the cheap place in West Seattle $3.37 at the Shell I wonder when the press will do some stories about voter anger at the GOP for gas prices? Farmers trying to plant crops with tractors will have to raise prices even more for their crops come fall.
Why Gas and food are not counted for inflation is a mystery to me?

Thanks:) Is there some way to find all your comments printed at the lake plus the responses? I’ve had other good days like this before granted not often

You write Books?

BTW, Minneapolis is quite foggy and warm (31 F!) this morning…weird.

yep..and articles: go to amazon.com

yep, hold down Control key, press F, Find will come up bottom left hand corner, type you Handle, and Voila! But you have to do that on a thread that you know has your comments…of course!

FWIW: punaise told me you’re a “good egg.”…

thanks

I’m in EPU land, but what good is a day off if you don’t sleep in? It’s Kristol and Cohen today. Bill “I’m always wrong” Kristol has a question. He asks if our broken souls can be fixed by voting for Barack Obama. Don’t you fret yourself about me, Billy. You just tend to the fetid mess that’s your soul… Mr. Cohen writes about “Sex in the Cities,” and says the French now seem obsessed by their leaders’ love lives, the Americans not at all.

http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are FINALLY out of the oven. Have a great day.

America can NEVER, and will NEVER right itself until Big Media is broken up.

The crazies have gotten hold of the megaphone and are happily using it to destroy the America proscribed in the Constitution.
.

Good Morning Marion!

thanks for the biscuits and the editorial comments, can’t start the day without them :)

you can also do it with Google advanced search by searching on your name on the firedoglake domain. it’ll turn up all you comments, replies to them, and refs to your name on all threads.

thats pretty cool

MSNBC: Obama narrows gap between him and Clinton in OH, with 8 days to go.

Clinton 51%
Obama 40%

i remember when Bush the elder ran on the Pledge Allegiance and it worked
And for a lot of people it will work again
unfortunately

Remember that there are a lot of people in this country who would not vote for Senator Obama if Satan himself were the opposing candidate.

Sounds much better to say
“I’m not voting for Obama because he’s unpatriotic”,
rather than
I’m not voting for Obama because he’s black.”

The Swiftboaters are more subtle this time around.

Rove and clan, as well as McCain, will not touch the race issue so they have to play the patriotism card as long as it carries a tune.