G’day, Jane

Fortunately, none of these folks are on my TV here.

early OT but for a good cause.

heads up folks in NC!

tommy yum yum’s son esten is doing beautifully and they are having a benefit for him on march 1 at the Cat’s Cradle in Carrboro. it will be an all day concert and tommy says he has pulled together a band for it.

that esten is doing well is very very happy news.

Raul has been named to be Cuba’s new president.

…dang…I missed that silly huckabee on SNL…think it’s on youtube?

Saw the Raul news. Is he sober enough to stand up and take an oath?

That is very good news.

Youtube seems to be down for the moment, I couldn’t get in to look for it.

I remain convinced that America dodged a bullet when One Percent Bill never caught fire during the primaries. “Thinking things through” doesn’t seem to be his strong suit: Supreme fave Byron White; gay being a choice; reciting his resume in answer to every debate question; etc.

And we, in our house, thought Tina and Amy were channelling certain LakeMistresses last nite on SNL. Hot.

Here’s Huck on SNL

Go Esten!

That’s great news selise. Tommy must be so releieved.

Someone want to tell Bill how much changing the vote by 1% would make a difference in recent history?

When we were in Iowa we were driving around with some folks from a particularly well-liked campaign here at FDL. We were wondering what to do and one of them said “hey, we can go over to the headquarters of Candidate X and see all the women he’s inappropriately groped.”

No names, of course.

Here is my question: at this week’s debate does Hillary wear black?

I think it would be a hoot.

Watched the You Tube clip (couldn’t stay up late enough to watch last night) and that might be a good motto for FDL–bitches get stuff done.

I may needlepoint that on an inspirational throw pillow.

Jane
Two things.
Which do you the is worse, comb-overs or the if-I grow-my-hair-long-on-the-bottom, they won’t notice the top is bald?
and,
Bitches do get things done.
I think it’s ’cause they (we) don’t care if they’re called a Bitch. They (we) just want it got done.
‘Cause, lawdy, people do love to do the name-calling-rag.

How the hell does this get reported as “straight reporting” ?

One of the most powerful lobbyists in DC, lobbying for some of the most powerful companies in this country, working as McCain’s top advisor, sitting on the damn bus, says that McCain doesn’t do favors for lobbyists? And he’s a lobbyist? The fact that he’s running his campaign is a favor.

Unreal.

We should all email this reporter and ask him if he ever thinks while doing his “reporting”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home

John McCain `Does No Favors’ for Lobbyists, Adviser Black Says

By Edwin Chen

Feb. 24 (Bloomberg) — A senior adviser to John McCain today defended the Arizona senator against a newspaper report suggesting the likely Republican presidential nominee did favors for a Washington lobbyist eight years ago.

“John McCain does no favors for, nor gives no special treatment to, any lobbyists — even if they are a friend of his,” Charlie Black, a longtime Republican strategist, said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” program. “He listens to both sides of issues from representatives from both sides, makes a decision on the merits and goes ahead.”

SNIP

“Senator McCain does not act in his own self-interest or in his own political interests in making decisions, but rather in the interest of the country even if there’s a cost to him politically,” Black, now chairman of BKSH & Associates, a Washington lobbying firm, said.

“I have not studied that carefully so I can’t really measure what’s going on there,” Obama said. “It’s indisputable that his top advisers in this campaign are lobbyists. Many of them have been running their business on the campaign bus while they’ve been helping him. And he’s comfortable with that, and he’s comfortable with raising money from lobbyists who are currently active in Washington. I think that is a problem.”

Obama said it’s “a legitimate issue for voters to ask if somebody presents themselves as a reformer and all the guys that are running your campaign are lobbying on behalf of various special interests and industries.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Edwin Chen in Washington at EChen32@bloomberg.net .

a year or two ago, tommy posted the info for esten’s care page…. and i’ve been following his progress ever since.

lots of ups and downs, but for awhile now it’s been mostly up. i don’t think i have tommy’s email, but if anyone here does, please send him lots of hugs and love. and hope the benefit is wildly successful.

So the women have been inappropriately groped but continue to run his campaign ?

Is this saying that those women are not smart enough to detach from that campaign and file a complaint ?

I’m in Toronto, and I’ve not heard about this issue before.

Oh, but that’s a cultural thing. (In other words, all latino guys grope.) It’s muy macho.
/s

I wonder what folks are thinking about Hillary.
I am appalled that she would trash the party and Im embarrassed right now.
Further what about the debts her campaign have left with small vendors all over the country?

Hmmm, so do you get groped every day and is it appropriate ? *g*

Yes, bitches do get things done.

I am appalled that she would trash the party and Im embarrassed right no

How has she trashed the party?

All McConnel needs is a military cap with skull and crossbones and he looks just like another party beauraucrat.

The face of McConnel is a portrait in the banality of evil.

Thanks for the link……that sheeeet is funny……Huck has a future as a character actor. I am sure Chuck can get him some work.

He has no problem with the casual lie.

Ding!

I’m latina and grope ..um wait that doesn’t work here, carry on *g*

I don’t know about ‘worst comb over’, i always thought Peter Arnett held that title, but then again there is Donald Trump.

Watching the clip with my wife, she says if she were a Republican she’d vote for him because he’s more personable than the rest.

I said I like him because he thinks wives should willingly submit to their husbands.

She left the room.

OT, but Atrios has post with a great comment thread — And Their Story Is?

As I wrote before there’s been a lot of insidery campaign stories about the Clinton camp and not so much from the Obama camp. More than that, there really hasn’t been a lot of analysis (that I’ve seen) about how team Obama achieved what they did.

Campaign stories tend to be overly determined by who the ultimate winner is (if you win it was all genius if you lose it was all stupid), but I’d really be interested in knowing how much of what Obama achieved was due to some awesome master plan, and how much of it was just luck combined with a charismatic candidate.

From the comments, a 7/25/07 preview of the Obama Plan –

“Shame, shame on you Barack Obama”. I watched her and my guilty conscience kicked in and I felt like it was me being scolded, ……and poor BO had the look of someone who got caught doing something…..its really weird. I bet he gets sick or something and wiggles out of the next debate. I don’t blame him. Imagine her scolding Bill in that tone of voice…..no wonder he has been behaving. She still has my vote, I am afraid not to vote for her after seeing that….

Trump probably has the worse comb over but Mike McConnell does have a really bad one as well.

Huck reminds me of Ned Flanders

Hi, Jane and everyone!

That really is a nasty comb-over. It fits with the right-wing penchant for massive self-delusion.

That scared you? That is pretty tame next to the tongue wagging you would get from the women in my family.

Bill Richardson told Wolf Blitzer that he will probably be making an endorsement soon, and that there are too many superdelegates (of which he is one). He said he believes that those superdelegates should vote the way that the people who elected them voted. Wolf noted that Hillary Clinton won New Mexico so that meant he would have to vote for Clinton. It didn’t appear that Richardson had thought that one through.

I wonder how Richardson got his resume. He always seems like a doofus to me any time he opens his mouth.

So, ya like those strong kinda womens?
Is that why you love the lake?

I am sure the women in your house would love me and you would hear the refrain “why can’t you be more like Brian”……..which would be a bitter pill indeed, because I am really quite a rascal, as you know.

It takes a lot more than that to light a fire under ‘ol Bong’s ass.

Rates about here for me.

;~P

Brasilian women are stereotyped as being a little on the crazy side, so ummm…well maybe I’ve said too much *g*

I wonder what the life expectancy actuarial tables are for that statement ;-)

I dunno…..

Here’s Hillary’s latest. This wordsmith is at a loss for words. Temporarily. Maybe.

Didja see the recipe I left you a couple threads back ?

i hit that submit button too fast. What I meant to say was….

I dunno, I’m a girl and all and as open minded as I am, I don’t want to be like that rascal Brian

No, which thread?

Wobblybits … “Just a couple of wild and crazy guys” thread @ 178 …

Guess she doesn’t want the VP slot.

“John McCain does no favors for, nor gives no special treatment to, any lobbyists — even if they are a friend of his,” Charlie Black, a longtime Republican strategist lobbyist, said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” program while on the phone in the back of The Straight Talk Express. “He listens to both sides of issues from representatives from both sides, makes a decision on the merits and goes ahead.”

“Hey, somebody get me a sandwich back here!” he also said.

oooh gonna go take a look see

Regarding Ralph, doesn’t he need to get petitions signed in each state and is he ready to do that? It seems like he has perhaps waited too long this year. Shame, shame on you Ralph Nader…….

Shhhh. Listen. Hear that door slamming shut? It’s the Obama campaign, clicking deadbolts in place to keep Hillary off the ticket and out of the White House. Just sayin’.

That was just shocking– she was making fun of Obama!

I mean, that was really below the belt! I don’t think even the Republicans will do something that low, assuming he wins the nomination (which he no doubt will after Hil made fun of him like that).

That’s interesting. Seems that a lot of what Obama had planned was, indeed, strategic on his part. But obviously, there is luck involved. If a rival candidate enters the race with a similar approach one begins to divide the vote. Now one could argue that Edwards was the one that fit that mold, but Obama had started organizing young voters much earlier and captured that critical part of the chessboard. I suspect Edwards mainly was attempting to use a base from his prior camapign.

In addition, from the start of his Senatorial campaign Obama was making his attacks on NAFTA and the war. These were not “new issues” in his speeches “borrowed from John Edwards”. They were part of his stump speeches in Illinois back when Edwards was still voting on centrist bills in the Senate. Obama thus had occupied that space, particularly in the critical early Primary states, marginalized the other candidates, before taking on Clinton, who represented the establishment.

Obama would have never chosen Hillary as his running mate …

Having said the above, the her words are true, the tone is very off.

I don’t know who on the Clinton campaign decided that attacking William Ayers for being a member of the Weather Underground was a good idea, but you have to think that someone would have remembered that Bill pardoned Susan Rosenberg (also a member of the Weather Underground) on his way out the door. Hello? Anybody home?

Let it be a matter of record, that Lahoma and I were in sympathy with SDS in the 60’s and seventies. We remain in sympathy with SDS. Sisters and brothers.

okk and Lahoma.

Ouch, Hillary’s wearing Loo Hoo’s fav jacket … *g*

Oh yummmmmmmmm
Thaks so much. That is exactly what I’m having for dinner tonight. I’ll have to find some piece of dead animal for the hubby (sorry, he won’t do squirrel)

I know, but it’s nice to have it in the coffin, nailed down forever.

Hillary is not a believer I guess. If she wins we will have more bickering and fighting. Although I do not really think we will get out of Iraq or get universal health care without at least a little bickering. But I have not seen the light yet myself.

Do you really feel that her bit was farther below the belt than what we’re going to see in the general?
I didn’t think it was that big a deal.
She made her point.

I’m a little tone deaf myself… but I don’t understand who she is criticizing… Obama or his supporters?

Call it by some French name … Écureuil au gratin … (I know, my French is awful) *g*

OT to wobbleybits – I think it was you who posted about buying veggies and reading the code to see if they were organic or factory farmed or frankenfarmed. ?? Would you elaborate? Below on Kirk’s thread is fine if you like.

Hello? Bill is not Hillary. Hello?

I added the Jalapeno to the blender …

Exactly. I was being sarcastic– I guess I should have laid it on a little thicker. :-)

My take was Obama, since she didn’t mention sheep.

My lady and I went horseback riding earlier. And naturally the subject of politics emerged during that ride. Lahoma advised she was angry with Hillary Clinton. I asked how so? She said she was unpleased with Clinton because she had a chance to be the first woman president, and blew it. I indicated my agreement. The matter was then dropped.

Oh, sorry. Didn’t read it as sarcasm.
People Do tend to get thin-skinned here sometimes…
Thicker, or the little /s thingy.
Again, sorry.
Carry on.

Really? I was thinking she was making fun of his adherents, because I doubt he believes his own schtick.

Well I’m going to try and say something nice here…..

it’s the sincerest form of flattery?
if you can’t win them on policies, go for laughter?
ummm she’s attacking a policy of his (you know the whole-unifying-hope-thing)
okay, I got nothing

This is something that I berated my nephew about when he was umm 8 years old, it’s reminiscent of elementary school and not very becoming to someone who has accomplished so much and still has much to offer.

OT, but Atrios has post with a great comment thread — And Their Story Is?

As I wrote before there’s been a lot of insidery campaign stories about the Clinton camp and not so much from the Obama camp. More than that, there really hasn’t been a lot of analysis (that I’ve seen) about how team Obama achieved what they did.

Campaign stories tend to be overly determined by who the ultimate winner is (if you win it was all genius if you lose it was all stupid), but I’d really be interested in knowing how much of what Obama achieved was due to some awesome master plan, and how much of it was just luck combined with a charismatic candidate.

I love Atrios, but the following was a great comment in that post:

Luck. Really? Are you trolling your own blog?

I mean come on “just luck” in beating Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, Dodd,etc.?

In America, with the name “Barack Obama”?

Come on, folks.

Better than mine, which is non-existent, LOL

See…you’re a smart man.
(Some here could benefit from Kiddo lessons…/s)
I’m going out to an afternoon concert.
Pups have fun…

I unable to dispute that. ;0)

hiya y’all!!

Yeah, no problem! I think this is a problem with the written word– it’s hard to read people’s body language. People used to talk about this when e-mail was just starting to be widely used. It’s easy to be misunderstood when you’re typing.

So I’ve been working on being more low key so as not to come across as too abrasive.

Sure, in one of my raw foods book, they talked about being able to identify the way foods are grown and it goes as follows:
The little stickers on the fruit and veggies are called PLU stickers and there will be either a 4 or 5 digit number on it.
5 digits and digits begin with the number 9 = organic
4 digits = conventionally grown
5 digits and digits begin with the number 8 = genetically modified

But wouldn’t she want to convert and the subsequent support of his adherents? Or is this just an attempt to slap them to their senses?

Why is it that the Clintons always drag it down to the bottom fishing level. Now we have Doris opining on plagiarism. Unattributed copying is not plagiarism unless the copying is done without the permission of the author. In Obama’s case, the purported author said Obama had permission. Hence no plagiarism. Just unattributed copying. In Doris’ case of reported plagiarism, she reportedtedly did not have the consent of the author(s) and reportedly paid bucks to settle the claims.

But I had forgotten about Doris. Why is it that the Clintons turn these people up?

Too true.
It’s especially difficult to read sarcasm.
And, by the way,
Kiddo, my /s should have read *g*.
I wasn’t being sarcastic.
I think a lot of men everywhere could benefit from Kiddo Lessons.
Not just the math ones, but how to treat a spouse.
You and Lahoma are inspirations.

Thanks. Good to know.

or maybe just a slap? Even if it was not aimed at her supporters, many may take it as such (even those that are not necessarily in his camp) but it’s her decision, right?

Do you think SNL would do a skit with Amy Poehler as Vicki Iseman?

Do you really think it was that bad? I thought it was pretty mild. I’m pretty sure she has not intention of alienating his adherents, but I think she was mainly trying to appeal to independents.

But I want to emphasize, it was very mild. I mean really.

I have one more qualification, before I head out.
My husband is one of the good guys.
Treats me Just Right.

Melodramatic and (with apologies to the “fellow” feminists here) scolding. At some point that term has to be allowed to be used. Clinton has become the whinging, scolding holier-than-thou….hypocrite.

Yes, her campaign has also sent out fliers exagerating and misrepresenting Obama’s positions. Does she really believe that Obama’s plan for Social Security relief will cost a “trillion dollars of YOUR money” (Sh*t, where will I get it from?). And that 30 million people uncovered by his health care plan is simply out of the blue. If the plans are attractive enough (from collective buying power) then it may be far less. Her plan also indicates some uncovered individuals that would want to opt out…but would be compelled to join by some “undefined” penalties. She will not state what that means (fines, dunning of wages, or simply being denied access…if the latter that means it’s not “universal”).

I think Clintons stridency has gotta be desperation at seeing internal and external polls showing that her prior strategies to have her message gain traction have failed. Obama has benefitted a bit from “Obamamania”, but it also means that people are looking at his ideas and positions with more scrutiny. And also comparing the two. In many cases their positions are nuanced, in other cases they are broad. Hillary, it seems, is trying to take the nuanced differences and make them Grand Canyons, while concealing the areas that they have substantial distinctions.

Not a problem, always glad to pass along helpful info :)

I was going to say, if your husband has been anything less than attentive I was going to step up and ask for a tryout.

Ah – got it.

I think it was MTP that dug up Doris. They wanted a presidential historian, and chose her.

Probably not the best choice, given the topic at hand.

hiya y’all!!

Not enough Hi’s in there, Missie, ya threw everyone off…! Aloha!

Yeah, the whole issue is interesting. He made the whole question appear absurd in the last debate by explaining that she and McCain were calling his supporters “delusional.” The audience laughted and even Hillary appeared to actually laugh, rather than a false smile. Even so, she’s back at it with more gusto.

I have only decided against her recently, but it appears she still has at least two weeks left to try something and there is really no good campaign option left.

I think Clinton has run a decent campaign and Obama has run an excellent one.

Clinton problems have had very little to do with tactics. Rather, the problem was strategy.

She ran on a restoration theme. In this poltical enviroment, where change is trump, this was always going to be a difficult hand to play.

hi mr CT! hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hello hello hello hola hola hola hey hey hey hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hello hello hello hola hola hola hey hey hey hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hello hello hello hola hola hola hey hey hey

I’m turning into my mother but it’s true that, in the end, it’s OUR decision as to how we react to a situation.

:) Everyone enjoys a compliment, and I thank you for that.

Melodramatic and (with apologies to the “fellow” feminists here) scolding. At some point that term has to be allowed to be used. Clinton has become the whinging, scolding holier-than-thou….hypocrite.

Yep! She’s been hanging out with finger-wagging Condi Rice too much and she’s picked up some bad NeoCon habits. Me superior and never wrong. You unholy good-for-nothing unchosen before time began.

E.J. Dionne mentioned on This Week earlier today that Newsweek has reporting on the NYTimes story on McCain… it does, byline Evan Thomas and Isikoff.

Legs still growing on this story.

And Nader? Harold Stassen for the 21st Century…just sayin’ ’round the blogosphere.

Tommy has a website for his song publishing. That page has a “contact Tom” citation. Accordingly, if you go to his site, (http://www.tommaxwell.com/TMindex2.htm) you can reach him. I’m sorry, I tried making it into a link, but it didn’t work so you’ll just have to cut and paste it into your browser, or you can search for Tom Maxwell & Squirrel Nut Zippers, as I did.

I can only respond that I don’t see it that way at all. You mention “Clinton’s stridency”. That’s a pretty strong term. I just don’t think she’s been anything close to strident. It’s politics. Think about it– if she’s being scolding and strident, what words will you have left to describe what the Puke smear machine will dish out in the general?

Much better, Cassie! *g*

I know, I know. I got it the first time. I need to apply some balm to my thin skin, I guess. That said, I believe with my whole heart that Hillary is not the anointed one and lately, she is demonstrating that in spades. Slinking back to my cave now.

Shoot. I do plagiarism all the time. I’m a math teacher. I doubt I’ve ever had an original thought in my life. Everything I know and say has been appropriated by me. (But seriously… I get the drift). I support Obama. I do not care much for Ms. Goodwin and her copying. Why does this individual command respect?

“Why” is the easy question… I the “How” that baffles me.

No, don’t slink back to your cave! It’s just like a playground here– there are a few bumps and bruises but if anyone gets out of line the mods will step in. (Kind of like the cafeteria monitors in school)

Doris is OK; it’s just that there are so many talented people out there to source but the media keeps going back to the same old watering hole. It’s like hearing from AEI, again. We’ve heard from them before now let’s hear from a new voice.

Perhaps she was pointing out what is pretty obvious……

I know there are some Obama followers that are pretty sensitive to criticism. The Obama campaign has an ad on the radio here is Austin where Barrack is speaking, and what he is saying is…”believe in this campaign, believe in yourselves, and believe in America”….no talk of policy. Ending the bickering in Washington is not a policy. At some point the Republicans will resort to smash mouth dirty politics. Barack needs to help his followers off of the pink cloud they are sailing away on, or they will be unprepared for the general election. I think Hillary is trying to bring some reality to a surreal political year. I am sure she is disappointed in her failing campaign, but as a Democrat, nobody is better positioned to throw some cold water on a sleepy, dreamy electorate then she is.

She is not in this to win friends……she wants the best candidate to win the nomination and win in the fall…..so some of the things she believes in will come to pass.

Hiya, SnarK! How’s things at Youthinkleft?

ehh.
no one posts much.
but my blog is going well!

Umm, “vicious”? “Evil”? I actually agree with your point about “strident,” but nonetheless, we won’t lack for stronger terms to describe the Republican attacks.

Okay, I’ll accept your explanation but can’t she do that without insulting the very people she is still trying to appeal to? Call me crazy but I’m less inclined to listen to anyone who supposedly has my best interest at heart when they insult me.

I’m less inclined to listen to anyone who supposedly has my best interest at heart when if they insult me.

Having majored in history, I think she is a pretty good historian. Steven Ambrose was pretty good too and he apparently committed plagiarim also. Working from notes made over a long period of time, consolidated into a book, it’s fairly easy to forget or err in what you thought of and what came from someone else, particularly if grad. students or assistants do a lot of the reasearch. In the case of Ambrose, I think he developed too much of a book factory.

Many professional historians essentially write works that only a few other historians in their specific field read, and they tend to be critical of historians who write for the general public.

At any rate, I think the plagiarism regarding Obama is really weak and desparate. They would do better to forget it.

Ok be back, need to run get some bananas and raw almonds so I can make a chocolate banana shake.

Mike Huckabee is funny in the SNL skit. Thanks, Jane! Good to see he can laugh at himself.

Clinton, not so much. The comments over at Huffington Post re “Hillary Mocks Obama” are pretty scathing. Ouch!

BTW, kiddo, if you’re still here, I agree that the plagiarism “issue” is just silly. It’s not even an issue! And I expect she won’t bring that up in the debate Tuesday. It didn’t go over too well last time!

Cool! What’s your blog?

She is frustrated because her message is falling on depth ears. She is a good person, with very strong beliefs, and nobody is listening to her. I do not think she meant it to be personal to anybody. I am sure that she is flummoxed.

oops……deaf ears.

Maybe we should send them some crying towels.

Why do Obama supporters treat him like a baby who can’t withstand any criticism? If he can’t do that – he can’t be elected. And I thought his motto was, “yes we can.”

I don’t think that everything HRC has said about him has been completely fair- or even tactically good – but really – anything so-called “attacks” by HRC are going to look exceedingly tame and restrained compared to what will happen in the GE.

If Obama thinks he can be POTUS, then let him show what’s he has the right stuff.

As we all have frequently complained over the years, you don’t win elections on policy. Obama has plenty of policy and issue information on his website for people like us who want to know more, but I think the way he’s campaigned is a sign that his campaign understands how to appeal to people, not a sign of naivete or “dreaminess.” Speaking as someone who’s experienced it from the inside, the effectiveness in organizing volunteers that has won primaries and caucuses across the country is strong preparation for the general election.

Smash-mouth has to be answered, but that doesn’t mean it can only be answered in kind.

Again, Obama did not engage in plagiarism. He had the consent of the author to copy and hence no plagiarism. Many take the view that any unattributed copying is plagiarism, not so. Personally, I could give a damn where Obama sources his speeches if I like the speeches which I do.

The Clintons went to law school. They should act better.

It’s Ralph Nadir now though, isn’t it?

Since I don’t know you and you don’t know me, let me share a little something. I am an Obama supporter aka woobly the Barakite and I’ve never stated or believed that he should be treated like a baby. I, however, do expect all parties involved shouldn’t act like babies either

I would love to know how those independents in New Hampshire who voted for the “maverick” McCain think about their vote after the New York Times story about McCain and lobbyists.

woobly wobbly the Barakite

I’m not sure there are laws against the oral repitition of stated, but unwritten information. There are scholarly rules and academic sanctions regarding plagiarism and there may be copyright rules effecting journalism, but I don’t think there are others, even for written works. Again, for speech it just seems like calling someone a copycat.

Just in case anyone else wants to know, I just checked my e-mail for an update of the care page for Esten, Tommy Yum’s son, and he also posted his Myspace page address in the update regarding the benefit they’re doing. It is: http://www.myspace.com/tom_maxwell

Hillary and Obama are about the worst two candidates I’ve ever seen at attacking….neither has made a scored a hit yet…guess they just don’t know how to do it- it’s BORING- and a bit concerning for November- when the winner better be ready to deliver an attack that draws blood.

How is disagreeing with attacks treating him “like a baby who can’t withstand any criticism”? This is a competitive primary; we all have opinions and we’re all part of this. I, for one, don’t plan to shut up just to prove “he can take it” when the GOP attacks come, why should I do it now?

Frankly, I’m pretty mystified by the whole line of thinking that because the GOP attacks are going to be worse, responding to these milder attacks somehow means he “can’t take it.” Wouldn’t not responding do that?

P.S. However, I do think some of the adjectives used to describe criticism of Obama are overstated. I hear a news teaser about her turning savage, and it bears no resemblance to how she actually behaved or what she said. ||Again, I thing the plagiarism thing was out of line, but not really nasty and I think it did the most damage to HER campaign.

Don’t you worry, I’m sure that either will be able to handle Mac in the fall

Hey all-
I didn’t think what she said was all that harsh. If she wasn’t fighting with all of the weapons at her disposal, she’d be criticized for being weak and giving up. It sounds to me like she’s trying to emphasize the “serious adult” persona, a la Biden. That’s fair. Tough, but fair.

In the end, I still hope they team up. For the good of the country.

Cinimonape, Left you a response on last thread. E-mail me at amyfencl@msn.com. We probably have mutual friends.

Jim
Careful of the bots that scour the tubes looking for email address by which to savage your inbox with crap. Better to type out the ‘at’ so it won’t scoop up your email addy.

BTW, Hiya Snarkassandra!!!
Left you a comment re fascism.

If I copy and exploit the screenplay of Natural Born Killers orally or in writing, I will likely have a copyright infringement problem. IF I copy my friend’s paper in college with his permission but without attribution then I will likely violate some college academic rule. But If I am running for President and I copy verbatim a good speech of another with the permission of the other and present that speech on my behalf in writing or orally without attribution, I have done no wrong. In my view I have done right as I am presenting a good speech. At least I am capable of that. If the problem is that it is not my work product, so what. Does any president credit his speech writers at the time of giving the speech? Maybe in his/her memoir. What a drag the Clintons are What a bummer the Cintons are.

Thanks

You call that an “attack”?

OMG you Obama supporters are thin-skinned!

Have a link?

Dude, let’s agree to disagree but refrain from personal attacks …

“poor BO had the look of someone who got caught doing something…”

that link

The dictionary defines plagiarize as “to take (ideas, writings, etc) from another and pass them off as one’s own.”

It doesn’t qualify it by saying it’s OK if you have permission.

LOL!

If you think “thin-skinned” is a personal attack, you sure must be…umm…thin-skinned.

I think he was joking.

Gentle and compassionate people, and folks who care and are blessed with common sense, are apt to vote next November. Please vote Democratic.

Shaming other people is “strong?” No, thank you. That’s not the kind of woman I want to be. ugh

Sorry, I should have put the “/s” at the end … *g*

peony, I like your screen name. I have some beautiful pink peonies in my back yard– I just wish they would bloom longer!

That’s OK, I got it. (I did wonder about you for a minute!)

I know, they’re my fav but I plant Roses because they bloom well into the fall …

I plant peppers on account of ya can EAT em.

ROFL

It is established jurisprudence that lack of authorization is a requirement to pleading a claim for plagiarism. So, in most cases, is actual intent to copy. I even cited to the caselaw in prior posts which govern this definition. Plagiarism is historically a tort (civil wrong) and the definition you refer to in Webster’s is the colloquial and misapplied definition of plagiarism.

N’est ce pas? But how to be fair to the Clintons on their charges of plagiarism against Obama which are bogus, at the very least.

I can’t tell y’all what I plant, but I wouldn’t necessarily eat it…

;~P

Your nom de Blog gave it away … *g*

Mr. Mukasey, I’d just like to say that I have no idea what DrBong is talking about.

IANAL- but say I am a teacher, and one of my students copies a paper from another. Are you saying that that student is not guilty of plagiarism, because he had permission? He’s sure guilty of some form of “claim of authorship of intellectual property authored by someone else”. I always thought that was plagiarism, but there me be some legal definition of which I am unaware.

“5 digits and digits begin with the number 8 = genetically modified…”

Thanks for this info, wobblybits! My reading labels is entering a whole new level…

Plagiarism has different meanings in the academic and legal worlds.

Maybe I should change my moniker to John Lee Pettimore?

IANAOS, but I think this “plagiarism” issue is a non-starter.

((((( Fern )))))

The fact that plagiarism is still being discussed shows how much attention is being given to a non- issue …

BTW, how’s the weather over there ? We’ve already gotten more snow than the last two winters combined and more is on the way …

Before law school I thought plagiarism, like you that unattributed copying even with the permission of a fellow student author, would be plagiarism. But it is only plagiarism at the school level because the academic institution does not authorize unattributed copying. Hence, lack of authorization=plagiarism.

Yeah, I got it after I posted my own hilarious comment. That must really suck to be a stand-up comic and realize that no one is laughing at your jokes because they aren’t funny.

I laughed …

Give that wonderful soul a free drink!

I appreciate the info.

So did I– see my comment #150

Shanksh !

… sending you a cold Belgian Brew through teh toobz …

“Do you really think it was that bad? I thought it was pretty mild. I’m pretty sure she has not intention of alienating his adherents, but I think she was mainly trying to appeal to independents.”

Clinton said at one point, “every Democrat should be outraged.” “Outraged” is a pretty strong word, so I disagree with your characterization of her dressing down Obama as mild, particularly the “shame on you, Barack Obama.”

But you raise an important point. People hear things differently. Whether you assess this as mild or not depends I think in significant part to how sensitive or not you are to shame and guilt issues. btw, an extraordinary book has been written on this subject by Jungian analyst Sylvia Brinton Perera: “The Scapegoat Complex: Towards a Mythology of Shadow and Guilt.”

but I’m talking more on psychological grounds rather than political, tactical.

One might have to prove lack of permission in a legal case of copywright infringement- which is not what is bein alleged here…

(Following from wikipedia):

Plagiarism is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of (or incorporating material from) someone else’s written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one’s own without adequate acknowledgement. Unlike cases of forgery, in which the authenticity of the writing, document, or some other kind of object itself is in question, plagiarism is concerned with the issue of false attribution.

Within academia, plagiarism by students, professors, or researchers is considered academic dishonesty or academic fraud and offenders are subject to academic censure. In journalism, plagiarism is considered a breach of journalistic ethics, and reporters caught plagiarizing typically face disciplinary measures ranging from suspension to termination. Some individuals caught plagiarizing in academic or journalistic contexts claim that they plagiarized unintentionally, by failing to include quotations or give the appropriate citation. While plagiarism in scholarship and journalism has a centuries-old history, the development of the Internet, where articles appear as electronic text, has made the physical act of copying the work of others much easier, simply by copying and pasting text from one web page to another.

Plagiarism is different from copyright infringement. While both terms may apply to a particular act, they emphasize different aspects of the transgression. Copyright infringement is a violation of the rights of the copyright holder, when material is used without the copyright holder’s consent. On the other hand, plagiarism is concerned with the unearned increment to the plagiarizing author’s reputation that is achieved through false claims of authorship.

Thanks. I hope it’s non-alcoholic. I’m a dry drunk, like our president. (Well, not exactly like him!)

peony, the short video clip I was talking about showed Clinton making fun of Obama, and I thought it was pretty mild. I don’t know what the “outraged” comment was referring to, but I believe the “shame on you” comment was in response to a dishonest ad Obama played in Ohio, and I don’t think it was over the top at all.

I don’t know anything about Jungian psychology, except that it would take many years of study to understand it. But if you can impart the knowledge to me quickly, as through a Vulcan mind meld or something, I would gladly accept it!

I’d like to see some REAL negative campaigning between these two. So far it’s “patty cake”.

You have confused copyright infringement with plagiarism. When a politician restates verbatim a speech written by another, including a speechwriter, he uses that speech, with the permission of the speechwriter. It may even be work for hire to which the speechwriter has no claim of copyright. In the case of Obama he was accused of plagiarizing the speech of a Mass governor even though the mass governor had given his permission to be copied and repeated verbatim, much like a speechwriter would. Hence this unattributed copying is not plagiarism.

Thank you! Peonies are my favorite. Didn’t know that about them. But the classical Chinese paintings of them are exquisite and, they don’t fade. :>)

John A has a great explanation up about McCain’s FEC problem. Simple words to explain why McCain’s in trouble.

Not even the brownies? :>+

Do we get a new thread for the Seigelman story?

Your welcome

I don’t have cable, but I so want to see 60 Minutes tonight on Seigelman. But a thread, yes, my kingdom for a thread! And, yes, I plagiarized it from Richard III.

Simpson- the repub- is damning of Rove. He had asked her to do more than take pics of Don, had made other requests.