Yesterday, President Specious raised the focus-group tested GOP "trial lawyer" talking point — never mind that it is absolutely without any foundation in fact. Power grab over protection is a pretty transparent strategery, isn’t it? Rep. Conyers calls them out on their transparent, baseless bluff:
“The president and House Republicans simply can’t have it both ways,” Conyers said. “They cannot argue simultaneously that the temporary August law was essential to national security, and then turn around and engineer the defeat of an extension of it.”
Why would the President veto an extension of legislation that is so critical, that is necessary to prevent a "degradation of our intelligence capability"? Well, OMB offered one and only one reason for the veto threat — because the House bill did not "provid[e] retroactive liability protection."
That is to say: For President Bush, retroactive immunity for telecoms — who would only be liable in the first instance if they knowingly cooperated with unlawful requests from the Administration — is more important than preventing the degradation of our capabilities of surveilling terrorists….
Glenn has much more, including:
The claim in the Mukasey/McConnell letter that telecoms aren’t cooperating now turns out to be completely untrue since, as The Washington Post reports, "administration officials told lawmakers that the final holdout among the companies had relented and agreed to fully participate in the surveillance program."
But even if telecoms were refusing to cooperate, the reason for their refusal was not because they don’t have retroactive immunity, but rather, it’s because there is alleged uncertainty over the legality of current surveillance requests, and uncertainty over the ongoing validity of the prospective immunity provided by the PAA, because the PAA expired. If the PAA had been extended, they would be completely protected with prospective immunity for future surveillance cooperation. And, of course, the PAA would not have expired had Congressional Democrats had their way — they wanted to extend it until they could agree to a new bill. Thus, any alleged refusal on the part of telecoms to cooperate is exclusively the fault of Bush and House Republicans for forcing expiration of the PAA. That’s just true as a matter of basic logic.
But leave all of that aside for a moment. Since Mike Mukasey himself just said in this letter that spying outside of FISA is "illegal," and since it’s indisputable that the Bush administration did just that for years, doesn’t that compel him as Attorney General to commence a criminal investigation into this "illegal" conduct?
Here’s an idea: George Bush and Dick Cheney can resign themselves to following the law and get warrants like every other law enforcement and intel agency is required to do. Because, with a lawful warrant, they can compel cooperation instead of having to bribe the telecoms for it. If that’s actually what the Bush/Cheney folks want.
Of course, it could be as simple as wanting to cover the rear-ends of Ed Gillespie’s former telecom lobbying clients — but why think small when you can try to game more unilateral executive power grabs, eh, Dick?
The ACLU has more. Rule of law: now there’s a concept we can all get behind!
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I’d give real money to see somebody publicly tell Bush to just shut the fuck up.
Redd!
Evening gang…settling in for 60 Minutes AND the Oscars. Boo yah…
christy – do you know what the house is planning to do wrt to fisa legislation this week (if anything)?
Bush/Cheney have always been more interested in protecting corporations than in protecting us. Of course, their top priority is and remains protecting themselves by delaying as long as possible any exposure into what they have done or kicking their disasters into the next Administration.
I’ve another three hours for both… :-(
However, I’m not an Oscars sorta guy, I’m anxiously awaiting the Seigelman expose…! 8-)
woo HOO!
I don’t. Haven’t heard anything concrete from anyone as yet on that.
Somebody burp baby shrub already..sheesh that gas is just making him disagreeable
Jon is hosting … I’m watching for his quips …
I don’t know, Christy. Those are some pretty big rear ends in need of covering, if you ask me.
The 60 minutes story is really a strong one. The question is who will be watching it?
Why does that not surprise me? McConnell is a serial liar. The deal he initially made with Congress that he reneged on, the subsequent scare story to get the 6 month PAA, the charges that FISA was responsible for delays in wiretaps relating to kidnapped troops in Iraq, the claims that the PAA helped capture German terrorists. If McConnell’s lips are moving, it’s a safe bet he’s lying.
The House Dems have been meeting with Jello Jay, with none of the Repugs present, nor Leahy, should be interesting, since Reyes and Conyers aren’t interested in immunity…!
i just checked the daily leader and the weekly leader, and it’s not on either of them. looks like some other interesting bills are going to come up though, for example:
H.R. 5351 – Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2008
star witness against DS was a crook who is in jail now. He spoke to prosecutors more than 70 times before the trial. They prodded him over and over and had him write the story down to get it right. 60 Min couldn’t get him on tape—they wouldn’t let them. DOJ wouldn’t answer any of 60 Min. questions.
mmr and I will be watching, neither one of us are big Oscar watchers (may have something to do with the fact that we have only seen a few of the nominees –and most of those are in the animated and foreign categories
guess i’m going to have to turn on my tv.
Dood, that’d be the only reason to watch…! *g*
Not to mention avoiding war crimes trials.
yeah, nice scheduling
Yep — and there hasn’t been leaking from the meetings, hence I just don’t know what will or will not happen as yet. They’ve been very tight lipped — but word is that Reyes and Conyers aren’t willing to budge much off the RESTORE Act requirements, but whether that’s accurate or not at this point is anyone’s guess.
The Bush Administration and GOP assholish behavior in the Senate was a last straw for the House Dems, so there isn’t a lot of give there, from what I hear.
Everything about the trial he went through was a sham.
What gets me is that they keep saying that they have “lost” information from terrorists that threaten us in the past week. Just how do they KNOW that? How, precisely, can they KNOW what they aren’t supposed to KNOW?
And if they KNOW that terrorists were communicating then why didn’t they use the three day waiver and get a warrant? Let me tell you, if Bush and his cronies delay obtaining information that they can legally obtain using the current law, and there is an incident…I say send ‘em to prison and throw away the keys!
After 60 minutes, I’m off to read some stuff on human trafficking. I’ve decided to involve myself in the fight against it and need to be a bit more educated on the subject.
… not the Gowns ?!! *g*
Am taping 60 minutes this evening. The Peanut is finishing a cartoon and then it’s bedtime for her. I wanted to watch the Siegelman piece without a bunch of interruption, so it will have to wait until I can do that later tonight or tomorrow.
Been one of those days here, I’m afraid…
Strong interview by former AG of AZ who is a repig. He said he’s an American first before being a repig. So what will happen after this is aired?
My guess:
*crickets*
Siegelman will probably get some kind of a hearing that will blow it open—AFTER/IF a dem is elected pres. not before.
60 Min. regularly puts their segments on the web after the broadcast. It should all be there sooner or later. If nothing else there should be a blogswarm over it tomorrow after the Oscar fix is over.
I believe it was Rummy who said, “We don’t yet know what we do not know” in one of his brain numbing speeches … and if Rummy sez it, I beleeves it … *g*
you can’t tivo a child’s life.
We’re going to have an upcoming guest who will be talking about the issue in the next couple of weeks, among a few other things. But it’s a surprise, so that’s all I’m saying for the moment. (Sorry, I know that’s mean…)
It’s worth the watch and hopefully you, Marcy, Glenn, John Dean, Balkin, Kagro, et al will give it lots of attention tomorrow when folks wake up from their coma.
Uh oh … The Smiths aren’t in the pink of health as yet ?
… sending you lots of healing vibes …
Here’s the webpage for THE PROSECUTION OF GOVERNOR SIEGELMAN
Pretty much what I was thinking. *g*
Why is there not a demand for full disclosure of what has gone on in the past, with sworn certifications/oaths as to the disclosures to insure they are complete and a demand for disclosure of any and all previous indemnity agreements that were issued to get the telcos to comply in the past? Why is this not being demanded prior to consideration of any of this???
is over already?
because that would mean the terrorists win.
No — we’re all doing well. My house is just covered in bits of construction paper from a spate of crafts and gluesticks pictures today, the dog is exhausted, and The Peanut’s favorite chair is encrusted in cracker crumbs. You know, the usual bout of four-year-old-itis has been inflicted on my living room and sun room. *g*
“What gets me is that they keep saying that they have “lost” information from terrorists that threaten us in the past week. Just how do they KNOW that? How, precisely, can they KNOW what they aren’t supposed to KNOW?”
You have clearly forgotten the immortal (or immoral) words of The Donald:
“There are known knowns & unknown knowns & known unknowns & unknown unknowns & partridges in pear trees”
Or something like that.
I so wish that I had an answer for that…
Who was the Arizona AG? Grant Woods? Was this on 60 Minutes?
yes. Elliot provided the link above but here it is again.
Christy, thanks much for keeping us up to date on FISA. It really sounds like Chimpy has overplayed his hand, and doesn’t realize it–even the Washington Times has criticized him on this, just to mention one thing. Meanwhile, the repugs in Congress refused to attend a conference with the dems on the bill a day or two ago, clearly on orders of the W, and what you mention above shows that he hasn’t changed his tactics. Reminds me of his failed effort to privatize Social Security a few years ago–the less well it works, the more he does it.
So the question is how to best take advantage of this. Clearly progressives need to Attack, Attack, ATTACK (thanks TRex!). Where do people think the weakest points are?
No fair getting the Rummy line up first; I was distracted watching my new look Cavaliers.
No clue, but I haven’t watched it 60 Minutes years, but I brought up an old teevee for the occasion — well, that and Oscars.
But the story about Siegelman’s persecution made the hair rise on the back of my neck when I first read it at Scott Horton’s harpers.nocomment blog. If a former governor can be jailed on ramped-up charges, you just know that it can happen to ANY of us.
Given the number of people whose work involves laws and the justice system, there is probably a potentially large audience for this story.
Thanks. Grant is an okay guy in many regards (there are a couple of exceptions I’ve had over the years politically; personally he is a pretty decent chap). He used to be very close to McCain, really close, but there was a big blowup and not so much other than superficial now.
They got Ben Wallace … how’s he adapting ?
Mine are 10 & 11 … the place gets messier when they’re older but even more enjoyable …
He came off as sincere. Again, CBS managed to bury the story by showing it tonight. Anything anyone of us can do to highlight it on the intertubes will be the only way it gets attention.
The Obama “patriotism” story has new life because he was asked about it at a town hall. I liked this part of his answer:
Breaking my boycott of 60 mins since Katie Couric went to Iraq. This better be good. *g*
LOL
my mom still has all of our noodle art, clay creations, construction paper cards and tissue paper flowers from when we were all kids. But my fav is the hanging she has with our handprints (we were 2 and 3)and a beautiful poem about kids and messes
But, bmaz, isn’t that the crux of Conyers argument…?
Both my girls have been heavily into art from an early age, so I haven’t kept everything. But I do have a few drawers of art and all the “Father’s Day” ones from Kindergarten onwards …
Not to mention Dodd, Feingold, and, on occasion, Leahy and Specter…?
Could you post a link for his answer? Thanks…
Excellent piece 60 Mins did on the Siegelman story: political witchhunt. Rove involved. Bush’s cultish DOJ. Wife of… what an incestuous little bunch of every single stereotype of the worst of Southern good ol’ boydom.
Arizona Republican AG spoke forcefully about case questions. Pelle noted that all state AGs, Republican and Democrat, have asked for investigation.
Where was the oversight? Where–until tonight–was the investigative journalism?
We have slid down the slippery slope right into Castro and Stalin with this one, pups. No wonder Bush looked into KGB Pooty-Poot’s eyes and saw a kindred spirit.
I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if this is the kind of political gotcha that BushCo was up to with the warrantless wiretapping before 9-11. Don’t tell “no despair” George Will or Cokie…she’ll get the vapors.
RebDev, thanks for the highlights.
I suspect the story itself is so eyebrow-raising, it’s probably got some kind of eerie life of its own. It’s a bit like the early Plame reports, where you hear it on the car radio and just scratch your head and think, ‘Huh? Something here just doesn’t make any sense.’
If the papers and MSM don’t cover it, then it’ll be powered by the blogs.
Just like the Plame story, and like the USAG story.
My dad has his hanging in his home office. It’s sort of cute *g* but admittedly we had him wrapped around our fingers
Those are the bestest…! *g*
Obama is gonna switch from Sugar Ray Leonard to Ali during the GE … I’m gonna enjoy watching it from up here …
First game tonight, so far so good. Cavs up by 20 most of the game (vs Memphis.) He even made his first two free throws!
Yeah, they have asked, but all seem willing to act without actually getting those answers. That is my beef. And none of them have even mentioned, much less demanded the information on, the indemnity agreements that I guarantee you are there.
All daughters have their fathers wrapped around their fingers … we all know that they totally rule me and we all really, really enjoy it … *g*
Except that this guy has been serving time for a while now and by the time he gets cleared, his political career will be over. Remember how long it took for Plame to get into the public eye? And then to go to trial? Darth and W and Rover will be long gone and settled in Paraguay by the time the public gets this whole story.
I foresee another Reaganesque line… ‘I will not use my opponent’s youth and inexperience against him…’ What say you? ;-)
With him, the Cavs could take it this year … my nephew is a huge fan …
Can’t argue with ya there…! ;-)
One way to get more eyes on this is through digg
I’ve tried six ways from Sunday to get a direct link to the digg for the Siegleman story but it has to be done through the page at
sixty minutes
scroll down to the bottom and the digg button is there, you can also digg the video itself by clicking on the share-embed link right under the vid. So digg twice!
All I know is, McCain better have Private Insurance because he’s going to get beaten to a pulp …
From your lips…
Thank you.
Wait til they’re sixteen, thinking they’re 25… It really gets interesting then…! *g*
My dad says that still *g*
I hope that I finish making dinner before 60 minutes starts.
Here is the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI…..index.html
It’s the first story up so try to make it.
I will. I have it set to record just in case. we don’t eat and watch tv so either we eat soon or after the show is over
Oh, your points are well taken. I agree with you that Siegelman isn’t out of hell by a long shot, and that the Bushies will drag the legal process out as long as they can.
But anyone involved in persecuting Siegelman is going to be in deep trouble. The True Believers have backed themselves into a corner, but everyone else has fled. Who wants to be associated with them? No one.
We passed the ‘Tipping Point’ on the Siegelman Case being ’simply partisanship’ around the time that AGs of both parties asked Congress to look into this case. The WH can’t spin its way out of this mess.
I’ve taught them 3 meditations so far … 5- 6 more by then … so far so good on the parenting …
101 pages of comments so far after the Seigelman piece on the 60 min. website. If all the other 100 pages are like the first it’s lunatic drivel. The level of discourse there is, well, shall we say incoherent to be nice.
I have been known to put my son’s and daughter’s art, cards and such in a cookbook, just so I would happen upon it years later.
I now have one of my granddaughter’s earliest pieces of art in my music file. It makes me smile when I happen upon it. It was her rendering of her version of lines and notes in the music she looked at on my piano, at 4 years old. I must say it is one of her greatest works.
She is not 15, learning to drive (Yikes!), and writing for the local newspaper. Boy does time pass fast! Enjoy every minute of it Christy.
Here’s a coherent comment on the thread:
WOW.
That should read, she is NOW 15.
I figure it’s just a barometer of how scared the Rovian Shitfesters are when they hire cheap trolls to pull that kind of Neanderthal, knuckle-dragging stupidity ;-))
Thanks. Good reply, I thought. He knows how to neuter the mighty Wurlitzer…
OMG!!
Holy batmobile! That IS fascinating.
If true, that is so… Cheneyish…
ewwwwww…!
Here’s the Siegelman transcript on 60 Minutes
Of even additional interest. Most of the 60 Minutes segment detailing the prosecution of former Governor Don Siegelman was not seen in much of Alabama. The local CBS affiliate (or COMCAST Cable) went black for approximately 12 minutes at the start of the episode.
Here’s the entire comment:
Don’t know how their comment system works but there it is if anyone wants to go back and find the timestamp.
RevDeb,
Agree that the Siegelman story should get major attention. Hopefully he doesn’t have to stay in jail until a new AG is appointed in a Dem administration/09 for that to happen. It would seem that the Bush DOJ has no interest in pursuing this because to do so would have to admit something was not quite up to snuff with this prosecution. No two ways about it, something just stinks about the whole thing.
Yeah, Reverend. It seems that there is a concerted effort to make the Message Board unusable by sane people. THAT, and the blackout of the program in Alabama seems to suggest that there is something very odd going down. Someone doesn’t want Alabamans to hear about, or discuss, this case.
Curious, eh?
They’re afraid of their own shadow. It’s quite a shadow.
But then again I thought that vampires don’t cast shadows.
OMG, Grant Wood is a Rethug. If he appeared on this show with that perspective, then he really believes there’s something very, very wrong done here. He wouldn’t touch this if he wasn’t sure of it! This has to be a case of gross injustice, I think.
He was very sincere about the abuse of the justice system to put Seigelman in jail. He and the other rethug who was interviewed on camera.
Of course the gummint wouldn’t let Seigelman or the “star” witness against him be interviewed on tape. And no interview of Seigelman at all.
Oh, he will likely sit. The only shot is for the 11th Circuit to call bullshit on the District jusdge and that is not going to happen. Last I heard, the whole appeal process, including any release petition, was dead in the water because the trial court had not produced a trial transcript yet, which is inconceivable in this day and age. That has likely been remedied by now, but I don’t see much help in the 11th Circuit. It will likely take public and political pressure to make any headway.
Ann, the former Repub AG in my state was one of many who signed the letter to Congress noting the strangeness of the Seigelman persecution. So the AZ Repub isn’t alone in his concerns.
If you’ve not followed this story over at Scott Horton’s blog at Harpers, settle in when you have some time. It’s like finding out that Stalin is running the USA, and using the DoJ to do his bidding. And it’s a sure bet that many threads in Siegelman lead to other sordid affairs (see: GOP fundraising).
I think it was bobschacht in HI who pointed out that at least some of the 5,000,000 ‘missing’ WH emails surely must involve Siegelman.
I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. If this were a movie or a novel, I wouldn’t have believed it. It’s hair-raising.
Kafka.
Perhaps we should re-read him.
I’ve only followed this case superficially, but I will say that watching Grant Woods on this case, I have gained a new respect for Grant Woods. He isn’t someone I’ve always agreed with. It’s just disgusting to me that the American people have allowed our own government to get this far afield. I think that Barack, if he becomes President, will be calling on the people to be a lot more participatory in the government, as well he should. We got a lot of fixing to do. I’ve heard Barack make reference to restoring Habeas Corpus, thank goodness, and I’m hoping he has a lot more than just that in mind.
Oh, forgive me, but the idea that someone(s) blacked out the broadcast of the ‘60 Minutes’ story on Siegelman — in Alabama! — is just too damn funny.
This Siegelman story is just one head-smacking, almost-unbelievable incident after another. Looks like the Great Genius Minds that put Siegelman in jail are now willing to pull a blackout on nationally televised programming… my, oh, my. THAT won’t raise any eyebrows, now, will it?
RebDev @100Too funny…!But ummm… Should we wonder if the man’s full name isn’t Donald Kafkaesque Siegelman…?
Hey, the bee story on 60 minutes is a repeat, I’ve seen it before. Are all the stories repeats except Siegelman? If so, that pretty much exacerbates the lameness of placing it up against the Oscars.
No kidding, reader. It’s hard to believe that most of America is not glued to this corruption.
BTW: I don’t in any way mean to belittle Siegelman’s disastrous situation.
Apologies if it came off as trivializing his situation (!).
That was not my intention.
His circumstance is, in fact, so bizarre as to be ‘Kafkaesque’.
We need to repeat the story on the bees again and again if it hasn’t gotten thru to everyone. Bees are disappearing on all continents, apparently, and they are needed to pollinate a lot of crops. I’ve also seen things on frogs and how they’re mutating with various deformities and dying also. These are not good signs at all!
Well, I suspect that a growing number of people in the legal field are finding it pretty damn riveting, don’t you?
Because it’s compelling.
Actually, in defense of the bees… OT, but I could single-handedly probably bore the sh*t out of everyone here with my bee knowledge. The bees disappearing are dire.
They’re the bottom of the food chain; we can live without honey, but we can’t survive without pollenators.
My favorite resource online is at Cornell Univ. They have probably the best online archive of all things bee-related, including historical resources.
Why can’t Bush just pardon the telecom companies? And again and again?
My question is why aren’t the telecoms who (according to McConnell and Mukasey) are unwilling to assist, even when presented with warrants, painted with the UN-AMERICAN, UN-PATRIOTIC label the right so liberally slings at people who are against the Iraq occupation? A bit O/T: why aren’t ALL corporations who choose profit over all, and build new factories overseas, outsource jobs off-shore, and cry for legislative cover to repatriate their profits with little or no tax consequences–also painted as UNAMERICAN and UNPATRIOTIC?