Comments on: The real reason why the rich see America’s problems differently http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:45:14 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: MSSS http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294858 MSSS Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:17:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294858 <p>Thanks for explaining why</p> <p>Improving the lives of the POOR affects US ALL</p> <p>Improving the lives of the RICH only affects the RICH…</p> <p>An excellent argument for “trickle-up” economics.</p> Thanks for explaining why

Improving the lives of the POOR affects US ALL

Improving the lives of the RICH only affects the RICH…

An excellent argument for “trickle-up” economics.

]]> By: nrnrnrE http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294281 nrnrnrE Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:43:59 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294281 <p>UNEARNED INCOME, Investment income. At one time I received $10K unearned investment income annually and when asked “What do you do?” (for a living), I would respond “Slave Owner”. The money I received, all tho unearned by me, was earned by someone. The plantation/investment was bought by inheritance from my parents, the income came from the work of others (earners). As slave owner I earned a portion of slave earnings by providing a plantation. I received a portion of the earner/slave income. The problem here is not that I received the slaves earned money, but that I received so much of it. (approx. 10%/yr of investment), for doing essentially nothing. I smell a crime scene!!!</p> <p>The Estate tax/Death Tax/Anti-Aristocracy Tax should be near 100% to recycle the power of this system back to the few who can earn it, and away from those that inherit it. Who knows, when pushed, maybe an heir can earn.<br /> Otherwise another crime scene, just like our rich buddies have us in Iraq</p> UNEARNED INCOME, Investment income. At one time I received $10K unearned investment income annually and when asked “What do you do?” (for a living), I would respond “Slave Owner”. The money I received, all tho unearned by me, was earned by someone. The plantation/investment was bought by inheritance from my parents, the income came from the work of others (earners). As slave owner I earned a portion of slave earnings by providing a plantation. I received a portion of the earner/slave income. The problem here is not that I received the slaves earned money, but that I received so much of it. (approx. 10%/yr of investment), for doing essentially nothing. I smell a crime scene!!!

The Estate tax/Death Tax/Anti-Aristocracy Tax should be near 100% to recycle the power of this system back to the few who can earn it, and away from those that inherit it. Who knows, when pushed, maybe an heir can earn.
Otherwise another crime scene, just like our rich buddies have us in Iraq

]]> By: Arnie http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294173 Arnie Sun, 24 Feb 2008 13:32:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294173 <p>P.S. Happy B-day Ian, 40 circuits del Sol - not bad, but it gets better an’ better. From someone who did not trust anyone over thirty just last Monday observing my 65th circuit del Sol. Your health is your wealth. ;-)</p> P.S. Happy B-day Ian, 40 circuits del Sol – not bad, but it gets better an’ better. From someone who did not trust anyone over thirty just last Monday observing my 65th circuit del Sol. Your health is your wealth. ;-)

]]> By: Arnie http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294132 Arnie Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:09:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294132 <p>Ian, keep this up and I’ll be running out of superlatives quickly. Some notes:</p> <p>Up until the 1870’s, the concept of corporation was much the same as that of Great Britain (in Ireland the corporation is either the town or county government, unchanged from those times), concurrent with the opening of the western regions of the US, the corporation was altered in Law to accommodate business needs in the form of limited liability and unlimited life to vouchsafe the ability to accumulate capital in the building of the western empire (Transportation [railroads], communications [telegraph], extractive [mining], and industrial sectors that supported all else).</p> <p>The corporation was the legal fiction that made the opening of the US west possible. And as with all good things, if a little is good, more is better. The competition between economic entities within a given economic field soon devolved into survival of the “fittest” entities - the corporations. The more able were to eliminate or absorb their less able competitors and evolved into either Monopolies or Oligopolies controlling a given economic market. </p> <p>What is important is those who built and controlled the early business corporations were able to maintain their control through ownership of stock in diminishing portion of total share of stock issued to raise capital. Those stock held for control were further incorporated into holding corporations of various devices, “trusts” being popular as well as “foundations”, either form held controlling share of market controlling corporations that provided economic goods and services. </p> <p>Since there is unlimited time as a corporate quality, the ownership of most economic function was entrusted to the corporate entity, the benefit of economic income going principally to the original owners of the shares and their heirs. This has not substantially changed since the mid nineteenth century nor is it likely to change without substantial upheaval to the social fabric or to the practice of Law. </p> <p>Railing against such edifice belongs entirely to political economics and is emotional rather than rational, furthermore, will be used by political charlatans and demagogues to seek and obtain political power without the slightest ability to initiate rectification of egregious economic and political malfeasance and in so doing destroy a most valuable economic tool. </p> <p>By banging two rocks together, mankind was able to leave footprints on the moon. It took a million or so years to do it but it was done. Economics is a history of that progress, from mankind’s earliest ecology to recording and remembering all the economic superstructures that have been built upon that ecology. Ignore that at your peril. The smoke and mirrors of political economics hide and confuse what needs to be known and taught. ;-)</p> Ian, keep this up and I’ll be running out of superlatives quickly. Some notes:

Up until the 1870’s, the concept of corporation was much the same as that of Great Britain (in Ireland the corporation is either the town or county government, unchanged from those times), concurrent with the opening of the western regions of the US, the corporation was altered in Law to accommodate business needs in the form of limited liability and unlimited life to vouchsafe the ability to accumulate capital in the building of the western empire (Transportation [railroads], communications [telegraph], extractive [mining], and industrial sectors that supported all else).

The corporation was the legal fiction that made the opening of the US west possible. And as with all good things, if a little is good, more is better. The competition between economic entities within a given economic field soon devolved into survival of the “fittest” entities – the corporations. The more able were to eliminate or absorb their less able competitors and evolved into either Monopolies or Oligopolies controlling a given economic market.

What is important is those who built and controlled the early business corporations were able to maintain their control through ownership of stock in diminishing portion of total share of stock issued to raise capital. Those stock held for control were further incorporated into holding corporations of various devices, “trusts” being popular as well as “foundations”, either form held controlling share of market controlling corporations that provided economic goods and services.

Since there is unlimited time as a corporate quality, the ownership of most economic function was entrusted to the corporate entity, the benefit of economic income going principally to the original owners of the shares and their heirs. This has not substantially changed since the mid nineteenth century nor is it likely to change without substantial upheaval to the social fabric or to the practice of Law.

Railing against such edifice belongs entirely to political economics and is emotional rather than rational, furthermore, will be used by political charlatans and demagogues to seek and obtain political power without the slightest ability to initiate rectification of egregious economic and political malfeasance and in so doing destroy a most valuable economic tool.

By banging two rocks together, mankind was able to leave footprints on the moon. It took a million or so years to do it but it was done. Economics is a history of that progress, from mankind’s earliest ecology to recording and remembering all the economic superstructures that have been built upon that ecology. Ignore that at your peril. The smoke and mirrors of political economics hide and confuse what needs to be known and taught. ;-)

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294127 bigbrother Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:05:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294127 <p>The $11 billion war debt and tax cut to the rich would be a good start.</p> The $11 billion war debt and tax cut to the rich would be a good start.

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294125 bigbrother Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:03:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294125 <p>That would be worth posting and digging widely.</p> That would be worth posting and digging widely.

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294119 bigbrother Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294119 <p>Ian 1945-1970 was a period of open opportunity for veterans for housing and education. Not a lot of wealth was garnered just a larger disposable income that facilitated the consumer economy that the wealthy created… Walmart had a huge growth of poverty and low end consumers.<br /> The wealthy follow the money production on spread sheets then attack that source.<br /> They made a huge mistake in the 80’s-present in out sourcing jobs…killing the goose that laid the golden egg…disposable income!</p> Ian 1945-1970 was a period of open opportunity for veterans for housing and education. Not a lot of wealth was garnered just a larger disposable income that facilitated the consumer economy that the wealthy created… Walmart had a huge growth of poverty and low end consumers.
The wealthy follow the money production on spread sheets then attack that source.
They made a huge mistake in the 80’s-present in out sourcing jobs…killing the goose that laid the golden egg…disposable income!

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294116 bigbrother Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:33:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294116 <p>Excellent observation.<br /> 1.There is a caste system that has cultural implications apart from wealth that the wealthy include in their protective circles.<br /> 2.Many of the wealthy are in “the game” and it is played a certain way which excuses the damage it does to those who lose or are not in the game.<br /> 3.Many wealthy people give to charities that justify their conscience from guilt. These orgs that benefit from their largesse would not exist without poverty the system produces.<br /> 4. The amount by percentage of wealth given in America is very small…it does not impact the total wealth. Gates and Buffet are the exception.<br /> 5. about 95% of capital wealth is qwned by less than 5% of our population.</p> Excellent observation.
1.There is a caste system that has cultural implications apart from wealth that the wealthy include in their protective circles.
2.Many of the wealthy are in “the game” and it is played a certain way which excuses the damage it does to those who lose or are not in the game.
3.Many wealthy people give to charities that justify their conscience from guilt. These orgs that benefit from their largesse would not exist without poverty the system produces.
4. The amount by percentage of wealth given in America is very small…it does not impact the total wealth. Gates and Buffet are the exception.
5. about 95% of capital wealth is qwned by less than 5% of our population.

]]> By: KevinHayden http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294059 KevinHayden Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:44:39 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1294059 <p>Yup. And when I try for low wage jobs, the few that exist, they tell me I’m overqualified. Or that they know I’ll leave for better pay at the first opportunity.</p> <p>There are some jobs out there, but in a university town (Eugene) they’d rather have an irresponsible, unreliable, flaky kid that may or may not stick around for 2 months.</p> <p>I do have family that could help 3,000 miles away, but from here, I just can’t put the beg on them. They provided help at Christmas that - coupled with side work - got me this far. </p> <p>Like I said, I’ll figger out something. It just sucks to be here again when a year ago, i thought I was all set for more upward mobility.</p> Yup. And when I try for low wage jobs, the few that exist, they tell me I’m overqualified. Or that they know I’ll leave for better pay at the first opportunity.

There are some jobs out there, but in a university town (Eugene) they’d rather have an irresponsible, unreliable, flaky kid that may or may not stick around for 2 months.

I do have family that could help 3,000 miles away, but from here, I just can’t put the beg on them. They provided help at Christmas that – coupled with side work – got me this far.

Like I said, I’ll figger out something. It just sucks to be here again when a year ago, i thought I was all set for more upward mobility.

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1293964 Ian Welsh Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:35:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/23/the-real-reason-why-the-rich-see-americas-problems-differently-than-you-and-i/#comment-1293964 <p>Kevin, sorry to hear it. I know it’s not a plea for sympathy, but, yeah, I’ve been there. Two times in my life I would have been on the street if family hadn’t helped out, once if I hadn’t gone on welfare. Even now, I’m not that secure. It wouldn’t take much… and I know it.</p> <p>The thing that gets me is that I haven’t seen a good economy for the lower class since the late 80s. I remember when security guard companies couldn’t get enough employees; when corner stores /always/ had signs in their window. Where bad jobs were easy to get. Sure, they weren’t good jobs, but they were jobs. There was wage pressure. There weren’t enough workers.</p> <p>Never seen that since then.</p> Kevin, sorry to hear it. I know it’s not a plea for sympathy, but, yeah, I’ve been there. Two times in my life I would have been on the street if family hadn’t helped out, once if I hadn’t gone on welfare. Even now, I’m not that secure. It wouldn’t take much… and I know it.

The thing that gets me is that I haven’t seen a good economy for the lower class since the late 80s. I remember when security guard companies couldn’t get enough employees; when corner stores /always/ had signs in their window. Where bad jobs were easy to get. Sure, they weren’t good jobs, but they were jobs. There was wage pressure. There weren’t enough workers.

Never seen that since then.

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