Nooner really needs to lay off the sauce.
Right now Mr. Obama is in an awkward moment. Each day he tries to nail down his party’s leftist base, and take it from Mrs. Clinton.
If "awkward" means — raising shitloads of money and winning state after state all over the map — then yes, he’s in an awkward moment. And this notion that the "leftist base" are beholden to the hawkish Hillary of the DLC is just laughable. She actually gets paid to write this crap?
But here’s the rub:
His problem was, is, his wife’s words, not his, the speech in which she said that for the first time in her adult life she is proud of her country, because Obama is winning. She later repeated it, then tried to explain it, saying of course she loves her country. But damage was done.
Ah, yes. The damage was done — with the crowd who for the past year have been screaming Balackhusseinosama and who’ve been forwarding e-mails about Obama being a Muslim and hating America because he didn’t put his hand on his heart during the national anthem. Oh noes! Those wingnuts will never vote for Obama now!
Are the Obamas, at bottom, snobs? Do they understand America? Are they of it? Did anyone at their Ivy League universities school them in why one should love America?…Have they been, throughout their adulthood, so pampered and praised–so raised in the liberal cocoon–that they are essentially unaware of what and how normal Americans think? And are they, in this, like those cosseted yuppies, the Clintons?
Using words like "snobs" and "pampered" to describe Michelle Obama, who grew up the daughter of a Chicago water plant employee, and Barack Obama, who grew up without a dad and eschewed a cushy, six-figure legal gig to work as a community organizer on Chicago’s posh South Side is really rich.
Also, I’m pretty sure Nooner’s boy W. and his Poppy were both products of the America-hating Ivy League and that "normal Americans" don’t read the Wall St. Journal or give a rip what she thinks about patriotism.
Why is all this actually not a distraction but a real issue? Because Americans have common sense and are bottom line. They think like this. If the president and his first lady are not loyal first to America and its interests, who will be? The president of France? But it’s his job to love France, and protect its interests. If America’s leaders don’t love America tenderly, who will?
The Obamas hate America. They love France. They’re unpatriotic, liberal Ivy League snobs. Is this all she’s got? Really?
She’s going to hear what those common sense, normal American think of her beloved GOP — real soon.
Related posts:
- Joe Scarborough & Peggy Noonan: Americans Secretly Yearning for Republican-Controlled Congress
- Peggy Noonan: 9/11 Wasn’t Bush’s Fault, But the Great Recession is All Obama’s
- Peggy Noonan: Obama’s Health Care Proposals Must Be Terrible, Because No Republicans Support Them
- Peggy Noonan Calls Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize “Wicked”
- Peggy Noonan: Catering to the Base Hurts the Country, Except When Republicans are in Charge
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Whoa, BT!
What a beeeeeccchhhh.
Fu*k her. God what a sickening human being.
-G
I think she’s imploding
Hi BT!
They’re going to have to do MUCH better than that. Heck, that isn’t even worth a response from Obama!
Boxturtle (Some bugs are more trouble to swat than they’re worth)
Looks like The Memo has gone out amongst the rightwing shiteratti.
-G
Wow, she’s basically saying that educated black people don’t know what being American is.
That is so f’ing racist!!!
Oh man, would I love to see a Teflon Democrat!!! Remember Ronnie? NOTHING stuck. Oh, please, please, please, let Sen. Obama be un-stick-to-able …
hiya, BT! Who is this Peggy Noonan person? Has she still a platform that thinking people bother to pay attention to?
What is Noonan’s native tongue, exactly?
Wait a minute. Wasn’t the problem with the Clintons that they were trailer-trash hicks from a low-rent state who couldn’t possibly fit into the Ivy-league corridors of power in Our Town?
I hope Nooners keeps this up, the standard wingnut tricks don’t seem
to get the traction they once did… as for the sauce, poor old gal
don’t need another drop to swoon her way through one of those wsj
pieces she churns out.
Look, it may not be good material, but now that baseball has started Spring Training for the season, we can expect that the wing nuts will be trying out all kinds of stuff to use when the playoffs get into full swing.
Peggy Noonan is projecting herself completely. What a whack job.
Why am I not surprised? Wall Street Journal – not for us little people.
BT, here in San Antonio, Mr. Obama had his rally on the west-hispanic-side of town. I went, it was SRO, with overflow crowds waiting outside to listen in on large speakers. Then Mr. Obama worked the outside crowd, and answered some questions. The audience? A total mixture, about 1/3 each white, black,and hispanic with some asians thrown into the mix. I am 57, and to se the excitement in the crowd reminds me of the excitement generated by Robert Kennedy. What I don’t like is the story out of Dallas, about how the SS stopped the local cops from checking for weapons. Hope that was not from Mr. Obama’s people, then again the SS has been getting more politized over the past 7 years, in favor of gwb.
Well she should know because afterall, she is sooo connected to what ‘real’ folks are thinking, feeling, etc.(snark) She really needs to take her one trick pony show somewhere else.
Not even with your dick!
Hi gang:
I’ve been running media errands all morning–international stuff, Kososvo, Belgrade (US Embassy sacking–those idiots–IMHO).
What’s happening on the McCain front? Did NYTimes have its online session yet? Please can someone brief me in two sentences ot so? Appreciate it…
You think that’s racist? You’d better hang on, they haven’t even BEGUN to play the race card yet.
They’re looking for a Willie Horton to hang around Obama’s neck. They’ll accuse him of having an affair with a white woman. They’ll link him to the most divisive black figures they can (Sharpton, etc). His wife obviously isn’t off limits either. Did he help a drug dealer while he was working on the street? Can he PROVE he didn’t? It’s gonna be ugly and I really hope it doesn’t turn into a black vs white election. But that’s what the GOP is going to go for.
Boxturtle (That’s off the top of my head, imagine what the professionals will be able to imply)
I’m feeling a disturbance in the force….
Whoa…a huge surge upwards in blood pressure..
Can’t we just let barfing dogs barf?
Must step away from this nuttery.
I’m not disagreeing with Anyone here.
I just need to feel better…
Peace out.
Some of us got lectured on the Vietnam war by really smart people.
I think the Obamas were out dealing with AMERICANS on the streets and struggling with finding housing, food, and jobs a lot more recently than Hillary or Ms. Piggy Noonan. Michelle Obama established a program at the University of Chicago bringing kids in from underrepresented schools (both urban and rural). She later has worked to extend the Univ. of Chicagos hospital services into the surrounding lower economic areas. Barack, of course, was a community organizer working to make sure that gentrification didn’t end up displacing or forcing into homelessness the lower income resident in those areas. That was less than ten years ago.
What bulldada!
Ironically Clinton was p[retty good last night in the debate…but one could easily disparage her rhetorical skill throughout the debate and especially the flourish at the end as “just words”, the very charge she made earlier against Obama.
Owned by some wealthy Australian media magnate, most famous for shilling right wing kangaroo crap and page 3 photos of topless vixens.
What I am enjoying most about this primary season is that the rovian ploy of taking a strength and attacking it doesn’t seem to be working this time around.
I loved me some Bush bashing during the debate last night. “Bush Administration doesn’t listen. It’s not what they do.” “obsessed with Iraq” etc.
Here are two American leaders (dem) who seem to care about Americans, not war.
What’s been going on, demi? See my 19–Is everyone going nuts? I saw the fight on Scarcrow’s thread.
Chill out people. Nerves are pretty raw right now. Take a deep breath. Take a walk. Drink fine wine. Make love to your partner…Take it easy…We’re in (and making) history, yes, but we also have to survive to live it…
It’s just a good thing Peggy’s hero, Benedict Ronald, isn’t here. He would just go to Philadelphia, MS and call Mrs. Obama a welfare queen.
Why this piece of trash gets any air or print time is unbelievable. Meet the Russert recently had Nooner at the same table as Doris Kearns Goodwin, one of the best historians of our time. What an effin’ insult! Check out this tripe from 2004 where supposedly she talks with some General about Shrub, and compare to her comments on the Obamas, who are completely self-made people.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/8360.html
Amazing this alone wasn’t enough to laugh her out of DeeCee.
Oh, a fight?
I think I might have missed that…will go look….
Anyone who thinks the once-poor can’t be snobs needs to go meet a few. I don’t know if the Obamas fit that description or not, but just having been poor is no proof against it. Second, most folks who eschew “six-figure legal gigs” to work as community organizers don’t manage to ingratiate themselves with the corrupt local party machine. Yet Obama did. A realist would wonder why. Realists are few and far between amongst Obama supporters.
Busy all day, late to the thread, late to haps of any kind. But please give details, bro. (Didn’t they know who they were messin’ with?)
New slogan: Make America, not war!
It was two threads back One person I have never heard of and one I am very surprised at.
What a fucking narcissist Noonan is. Watching her on TV is the A/V equivalent of chalk screeching on the blackboard.
Of note, Hillary has, to the best of my knowledge, steered clear of this.
Peggy come to Chicago lets see how you fit in in regular America between Forest Park to Caberni Green under the Blue Line. Obama was an organizer for the West Side. A place where a lot of regular Americans live and a lot of GOP Pharisees like yourself just keep walking by. Well to be fair people like you are scared of your fellow Americans even in the daytime.
Jesus was not proud of the Pharisees who like the MSM of today rule us as client kings to the Rich just as the Pharisees were client kings to Rome.
Noonan is speaking to the wrong Murdoch paper readers. Ivy Leaguers who work for Wall Street know who is and isn’t authentically ivy league in the old sense and would get canned for saying anything close to what she said in any professional setting.
More to worry about Hillary going after the FL and MI delegates. that was no concession speech folks at Austin, as some thought.
Yea, all the realists support Hillary.
I don’t like any of the labels. Snobs, pampered, hawkish or DLCish.
Sure does. Not only is she weekly in the WSJ, but she’s syndicated, and she’s on all the talking head shows.
She’s very serious!
I’m not an Obama supporter myself but I wouldn’t join in with the wingnuts when they’re trashing him. And I’m going to keep an open mind and see how he conducts himself in the general election (assuming he wins the nomination).
Thanks, Raven.
Bush won’t appear in public indoors without the audience being prescreened but the Secret Service is stopping local police from searching an outside crowd for weapons? Are they trying to get him killed!
Well, Hillary is in the DLC, and she is a hawk. Nothing wrong with that — but I don’t see how that makes her the darling of the “liberal left.”
Yeah it takes a barfly to spew idiotic comments like ol’ “the drunker here I sit the longer I get” Noonan all right, lol. Something so hypocritical it makes you wonder where her brains are at (hint: try looking in your ass, you elitist Beeyouich).
I am in my mid fifties and Nooner reminds me why I have been in a tavern or bar as many times as you could count on one hand in my entire life. While in there, I found that I could not stand the constant spewing of the most inane, stooopid comments like that one, so it is are not worth my time. Plus when you go one of those places 5 years later, the same people are sitting on the same stool, the same place and the same time as if there had been no gap in between. What does that tell you about where they are at mentally and if they have so much as maintined a brain cell in all that time?
Michelle and Barak Obama have more class in their little fingers than any of Noonan’s cheap cronies. The “even-though-I-am-a-billionaire-I-will- screw-anyone-for-a-dollar-even-if-I-have-to-snatch-it-from-a-poor-baby’s-mouth,” crowd as is Noonan herself. But then my mama taught me that unlike the smug, entitled who just THINK they hace class, the classiet people are not born with it, they LIVE it.
My 2 cents,
Cat In Seattle
Oh, hey, I have an idea: how about we keep disagreements in a single thread instead of stringing them into everyone else’s the whole damned day, so that I have to sit here and babysit threads when I should be researching on my next McCain piece? Because some fight about something that happened years ago is so useful to my current-day context of trying to keep the GOP from ruining our country any further.
O.o
Could we all do that, please? I beg you.
huh? I didn’t read that this had anything to do with Hillary or did I miss something?
BTW- Incipient GOP candidate poised to enter the fray.
Ralph Nader.
:(
Oh lord. Doesn’t he have some corrupt moron to heckle somewhere instead? Jeebus…I need some ibuprofin.
I hope it gets all the attention it deserves. i find it interesting that we haven’t heard much from him as of late (on local or state levels)
The Very Serious People are like old vaudeville troopers who have one or two acts, and no more, to trot out. There is the ‘liberal elite skit’ and the ‘anti-american liberal coward’ skit.
I am kind of like that myself, and here is an old line I have used here before from the biz: ‘get a new act or get a new audience.’
Good, detailed stuff on TPM on “Straight Con” McCain’s liar-like performances on lobbyist and his manipulation of public campaign financing today.
When is the next GOP debate?
Biodun,
I went back and skimmed.
I wouldn’t term that thread a fight.
Sure, there were disagreements. And some silly go-’rounds about language…but, I didn’t really see any custard or whipped cream or pie crust crumbs…
Yeah, people get sanctimonious here, and people get their feelings hurt. It happens from time to time.
Still, I wouldn’t term it a brawl.
No one got kicked off did they?
Ha!
This prolonged primary + cold, rain & snow + plus post full mooness (not to mention The Nooner’s fuel being thrown on the embers…heh.
I think most people are are going to be just fine.
Did I just plagerize?
I’m so funny.
The vilest line here is “…but are they of it?” That’s Nazi talk.
The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group — but did not note that as president, Clinton’s husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group mentioned in the Obama stories.
“Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue,” mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.
Opting to leave any attacks on the issue to the GOP may be wise, as attacks from Clinton could backfire. In his final day in office, President Clinton pardoned another one-time member of the Weather Underground, Susan L. Rosenberg, after she had served 16 years in prison on federal charges.
Rosenberg had been arrested in 1984 while unloading 740 pounds of dynamite, a submachine gun and other weapons from the back of a car.
Rosenberg admitted the materials were to supply others for politically-motivated attacks. Authorities had been searching for Rosenberg since 1981, for what they believed was her role in the robbery of a Brinks truck in Rockland County, N.Y. The attack, for which Rosenberg was thought to have aided with surveillance and getaway driving, left two police officers and a guard dead.
It’s been head spinning trying to keep track of logical arguments and avoid the other kind, so if I am repeating myself, apologies.
According to Josh, hillary will go after FL+MI delegates’ seating. Which means we are in primary mode and worse convention floor fight until something drastic happens. Anyone have any idea of a scenario that could change it. IF O got a number of superdelegates greater than the total of FL+MI delegates, would that make the point moot? I believe there is no way he can get a sufficient majority from the remaining primaries, and the last one is in frigging June (PR).
Please someone make my day a little better.
Oh pardon me.
you have a link?
actually it was 2, and now is 3.
Actually, getting back to serious bidness, ravens are contenders for “smartest bird in the world.” so you can’t fool me. but i’m gonna scoot so i don’t make mama mad.
Source? BTW, are they rewarming old GOP opposition research as they did with Rezko or is this new stuff?
and where exactly was GWB educated?
http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=4330128
thanks will have a look-see
Chamomille Tea.
And…if it’s too cold to take a nice walk,
but on some music and Dance.
And, this time, Everyone get’s a Demi Hug.
Fair enough – I’m a partisan, but I’ve always been a lousy one. And frankly, there’s been enough trashing of Hillary Clinton here to make your statement OBE even before I got involved.
There’s a gigantic train wreck coming in a couple of months. Should I keep quiet and hope no one notices? Larry Johnson put these things in perspective today, I think:
If you find that an easy position to defend please get your resume soonest to the Obama campaign. They are going to need you.
For those who are up to it, the recruiting office is this way. Have fun storming the castle.
BTW, William Ayers is now a professor.
This comment is so devoid of thought that perhaps you might want to apply for a job at the WSJ, and work next to Nooner.
Obama wrote about this exact topic nearly 15 years ago in his “Dreams From My Father” book, where he started noticing as he grew up that standing on the outside yelling only goes so far. He eloquently explained his respect for his more radical friends that wanted to stage more protests, and the importance of 60s-style upheaval, but he started realizing he was good at negotiating as well, and felt he could shake up the system from within.
This is all completely consistent with what he has done with his life and what he says in every speech to this day. Realizing he would need some support from the Chicago Machine, he very consciously reached out to them. He explains all this the book as well, and how he learned to earn the respect of people of all stripes while not sacrificing his own ideals in the process.
As someone who has to walk this kind of line in my own professional life every day, I think this approach is about as “realist” as it gets.
Sweet and sour Jesus that woman is an unmitigated ass.
The praised and pampered line is anti-affirmative action dogwhistle for “they’ve been told how great they are because they’re black,” as in, “this is what happens when touchy-feely Democratic inclinations to make minorities feel better about themselves comes into contact with the real world.”
Total code. And boy does this stuff sound so 04. Very, very stale, and the whole piece does nothing except underscore Noonan’s chronic, lethal lack of imagination.
She won’t if the Obama wins keep on coming, which is how polls are trending at the moment. There won’t be any reason to do it if he takes big percentages in Ohio, Texas and PA — he doesn’t even have to win them to get a huge chunk of delegates to add to his total.
No reason to stir everyone’s fear on something that hasn’t come close to happening yet. Plus, a lot of the party elder set are not predisposed to help with that as an effort, which puts a damper on the argument altogether.
My favorite line from her column in the WSJ:
And Ms. Noonan writes Republican sentimental crap.
It amazes me that even this thread set off an Obama/Clinton flame war. Oy.
At this point, realists don’t have any good choices. We usually don’t by now.
Has anything that has ever come out of this woman’s mouth made sense? And for somebody that is so damn stupid, she sure does talk alot.
I’m sick of these people. I want them to go away.
Yes, the irony abounds. Peggy Noonan, walking Hallmark card and girl with Kleenex concession, whines about sentimentality.
I don’t know where the darling of the “liberal left” came from other than Peggy Noonan, which we all know is a crazy person. I don’t consider Clinton a hawk, but a realist.
As far as her work with the DLC, she has been working on the “American Dream Initiative”. From the WaPo…
The American Dream Initiative includes proposals that DLC President Bruce Reed said would cost $450 billion to $500 billion over 10 years. He said the cost could be offset by eliminating corporate subsidies in the tax code, cutting out 100,000 unnecessary federal contractors and making a more aggressive effort to identify and collect taxes now going uncollected by the Internal Revenue Service. The initiative also calls for a return to pay-as-you-go budget rules in Washington, which means that all spending on new programs must be offset by cuts elsewhere.
The centerpiece proposal would provide additional support for college costs, with the goal of increasing the number of college graduates by 1 million a year by 2015. The proposal includes $150 billion in block grants for states to ease rising tuition costs and a consolidated tax credit for students. To qualify, states and universities would have to limit tuition increases to the rate of inflation.
Other ideas include requirements for employers to establish retirement accounts for all workers and a refundable tax credit for savers; “baby bonds” that would create a government-funded savings account of $500 for every child born in the United States; a refundable tax credit to help provide the down payment on housing; universal health care for children; and benefits for small businesses to lower the cost of providing health insurance to workers.
The DLC often has put itself at odds with the party’s liberal wing, but the new agenda was designed to create a unified message for the Democrats, although congressional leaders also have put forth a party agenda. The DLC document bears the imprint of several other progressive organizations, and DLC founder Al From said he believed that it represented “a set of ideas around which Democrats of all stripes can rally as we head into the fall election.”
Initial reviews from other Democrats suggested that Clinton had succeeded. Robert L. Borosage of the liberal Campaign for America’s Future, which has often sparred with the DLC, praised the proposals as “pretty interesting, and bolder than normal,” adding, “I take it as a pretty good indication of how President Bush unifies the Democrats.”
So just to say DLC,DLC,DLC with Clinton doesn’t mean a thing to me.
I know that and so is his wife, Bernadine Dohrn. And make sure you look at the and make sure you look at the ABC story, this is Clinton crap, Larry Johnson is just carrying their bags.
I’m sorry, but what you wrote has nothing to do with my point. It doesn’t matter what his motivations were: How did he do it? That’s the question you should be asking yourself.
sorry, but Larry Johnson is hardly writing as an ‘objective’ observer, some of the stuff he has written and posted over at the orange overlord’s place is down right inflammatory. He wrote some great stuff about the Plame affair but since primary season, I have no idea what has happened to him
Isn’t she the one who wrote that “morning in America” crap for Ronnie?
I cannot wait until this f-ing primary is over. I cannot stand the over-the-top bitchslapping tendencies of true believers on any side of the fence over the tiniest little slight. “Your candidate is wearing ugly shoes today!” “Oh yeah, well I saw yours drinking a Pepsi at a campaign event.” “You take that back, you back-stabbing jerk!”
Jeebus, it’s like monitoring a kindergarten juice-box squirting war.
Interesting how TradMed, here represented by Noonan, uniformly refers to Reagan as the Great Communicator (communicator of crabs, perhaps) but dismisses Obama’s eloquence as empty. Is it empty if it inspires people? Or is it just unthinkable to them that the left can have their own Great Communicator. Someone explain the difference, please.
What’s pathetic is the MSM takes her for a “serious” commentator. Calling Obama and his wife snobs by this presumtious shrew is the height of hypocrisy.
Yes, yes she is. It was a really effective, emotionally tugging commercial without one iota of substance to it.
Peggy Noonan and Charlie Black both have a manner that is very OK with “Middle America”. this kinda folksy, polite, pleasant tone perfumes the ugly stuff they squeeze into your palm as they engage you with a smile and sincere, earnest voice.
seems to me most of the great communicators are democrats, I could never stand reagan and was always pissed the democrats allowed the republicans to market that puppet like he was a communicator
I was always known for sharing my juice box to the point that I caught every childhood illness.
But I agree, November can’t come soon enough
hannidy has that down pat
The passionate view here (may lady and me) is that Hillary and Obama are not the problem. McCain and the Republicans are.
I never understood the label for ronnie the elder. But I attributed that to political bias. THe more I think about it, the more I’m sure its spin. Obama on the other hand is compelling.
Preppy Tex was born in New Haven, Conn, lived in Greenwich. He got accepted to Andover, a prep school in Mass where he reportedly graduated at the bottom of his class, then he reportedly got a legacy admission to Yale College where he reportedly graduated at the bottom of his class. Then he got a legacy admission to Harvard Business Schoool where he reportedly graduated at the bottom of his class.
The sad truth is that Kerry and Gore may not be as smart as Preppy Tex.
After either Barak or Hillary are elected they should sit down with all the right wing purveyors of neo-con propaganda and expose them for the hacks and anti-American shills that they are. Similar to what Bill Clinton did to Chris Wallace. They have to been seen by the public that hasn’t been paying attention for what they are.
Oh, honey. I’ve been trying to intervene all morning, off and on.
But, kids will be kids.
I’m gonna go shopping for something natural and herbal and non-toxic.
Hold down the fort….
Or, better yet, just work on your piece.
Sometimes the forest needs a fire to get rid of the underbrush and start to heal….
The Repugs are running desperate. If they smear Obama, maybe some of the heat will be taken off McCain and his dastardly double-dealing two-faced forked-tongue politics. In a word, I hear, see, smell desperation. The Repugs are running around like the Queen of Hearts – Off with their heads! Off with their heads! And the more they squeal the more popular Obama becomes.
Yea, that way we can go back to attacking the “right” people.
“Why is all this actually not a distraction but a real issue? Because Americans have common sense and are bottom line. They think like this. If the president and his first lady are not loyal first to America and its interests, who will be? The president of France? But it’s his job to love France, and protect its interests. If America’s leaders don’t love America tenderly, who will? “
The real issue is that most Americans do have common sense about common things hence the term common sense. Americas interests involve such common things as gas at $3.20 a gallon in Seattle. It involves higher wheat, corn, soybean prices, food and oil prices are left off the inflation index because the go up and down to much.
But Common people still worry about paying them. Common people also have the sense to know that if we elect a GOPer that they will pay for the war one way or another.
Besides Peggy name for me one thing that our president has succeed in doing his entire term? Come on just what do we have to be proud of?
Sadly, some people that I used to like reading like Larry and Taylor Marsh have become completely ridiculous. Larry recently had another big “expose” about Obama sending Dick Morris to Kenya on his behalf to observe the elections. Larry hinted that Obama would be turning a blind eye to genocide in Kenya since some cousin of his was one of the candidates. Larry’s main point was how naive Obama was about Kenyan politics. Uh, not ever sure where to begin with how wrong that all is.
Most links didn’t work in his piece, and any searching I did on the subject turned up only links from sources such as Newsmax and Drudge. I guess this has been a good process of weeding out who you can trust in the future. Once again, FDL shines through!
Bill Clinton pardoned old violent radicals. Did he associate with them politically?
I agree Hillary Clinton should steer clear of this issue, but the other guys aren’t going to.
Sorry not to have cited my source. here’s Josh’s headline. Sounded like a serious enough effort to him. It is in top position right now on TPM.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk…..get_fl.php
February: Obama smears
March: Obama smears
April: Obama smears
May: Obama smears
June: Obama smears
July: Obama smears
August: Obama smears
September: Obama smears
October: Obama smears
November: Obama smears
…and on and on
We’re off and running
New AG should use the RICO statue to bring down the biggest criminal conspiracy in the country, the Republican Party.
One, I think Clinton is undoubtedly a hawk, and I don’t know how anyone can argue otherwise. I think Bubba’s a hawk too. I say that without judging — I’m not saying it’s a bad thing to be a hawk, but she’s clearly a hawk, and the “leftist base” I know tends to be dovish. I think realists are people like Scowcroft, and I doubt Scowcroft would’ve ever sent troops to Kosovo or Baghdad. Hillary supported both.
Two, anyone who knows anything about Democratic and progressive politics know that the Clintons are hardly the darling of the “leftist base” — whatever the hell that is. The fact that they are both enthusiastic DLCers is no small part of that. Again, said without judging.
But the idea that Nooner DIDN’T KNOW THIS, and automatically links HRC with some “liberal left” is pundit malpractice. Complete idiocy.
Hillary has a lot going for her, but slavish support of the left flank of the party isn’t one of them.
Just telling you what I know. No idea where Josh is getting his info — haven’t talked to him about it.
interesting, repukelicans are jumping ship a bit early me thnks;
think progress
I want an honorable person to occupy the Oval Office come next January. I regard HRC and Obama in that context.
Don’t forget
January Obama smears
February Obama smears
March Obama smears
April Obama smears
etc
etc
etc
Noonan sure nailed the Obamas to the wall over their slim-to-none patriotism.
A terrific vulnerability for GOP exploitation.
has clinton ever explained those pardons?
Associated politically is worse than pardoning. . .if you say so.
True. I think in the heat of these pie fights, we forget the end goal, namely the presidency and the SCOTUS
I think Molly Ivins had a beautiful quote on that, something referring to him being living proof that a person could attend the finest schools in the land, and yet live through the experience without a smidgen of education rubbing off on him. Or mebbe that was daddyB she was referring to.
sorry. no linkie. but it must be in one of her books.
It’s been a very loooonnng season. The more people talk the more they self-reveal. I feel like I know people more intimately than I care to. I need a stiff drink (and I don’t drink).
i miss molly.
From Texas Monthly.
http://www.texasmonthly.com/bl…..egates.php
I am not an expert on this, I did notice that when HRC started making noises about going after the super delegates, the superdelegates I saw making statements were telling HRC to go jump in a lake. If Obama looks like a better bet politically for this election, I am not sure what HRC has to offer hundreds of them to jump on board the less successful campaign.
So, I am not worrying too much about HRC plans for smoke filled room machinations at this point. I doubt they will be very successful. As far as I know most of the superdelegates are not old school party bosses, but elected officials, who have a very strong interest in nominating the most promising candidate.
I make this observation. The time is fast approaching to unite. My fellow Democrats. Am I wrong?
Johnson’s a self-described “conservative”, or at least he was at the first Yearly Kos. Fairly middle-of-the-road, I think. Not too surprising that he’d be supporting Hillary, in that context. That doesn’t make his point less valid though – the Ayers thing looks bad, and Obama had better either deal with it head on now, assuming it’s no more than it appears, or he’d better start doing some wonderful oppo research. Cause fear of terrorism sure has been trumping fear of corrupt government lately.
I feel like I know people more intimately than I care to.
You can say that again.
Not worng at all, kiddo. time to put the gloves away and focus on the repugs
Is this the best she’s got? Because this is just bizarre. Elitist snobs? You can watch the Obamas for about five seconds and conclude that they’re probably not elitist snobs.
Not that I’m aware. He has worse ones to explain, I think, and hasn’t done that, either.
Molly Ivins? Now there was a person.
Bill Ayers: I’ve thought about this a lot. Being almost 60, it’s impossible to not have lots and lots of regrets about lots and lots of things, but the question of did we do something that was horrendous, awful?… I don’t think so. I think what we did was to respond to a situation that was unconscionable.
Two thousand people a day were being murdered in Vietnam in a terrorist war, an official terrorist war… This was what was going on in our names. So we tried to resist it, tried to fight it. Built a huge mass movement, built a huge organization, and still the war went on and escalated. And every day we didn’t stop the war, two thousand people would be killed. I don’t think what we did was extreme…. We didn’t cross lines that were completely unacceptable. I don’t think so. We destroyed property in a fairly restrained level, given what we were up against.
“Right now Mr. Obama is in an awkward moment. Each day he tries to nail down his party’s leftist base, and take it from Mrs. Clinton. “
Peggy its not the LEFTY base its the 70% Majority of Americans. Who by the way are to the Let of our candidates on issues like the war we want out NOW! and Healthcare.
i haven’t read the previous threads. i like Obama. Hillary’s OK too. i’ll vote for either one of them and i’m glad they’re both running. i don’t like anybody that is attacking either candidate. those people are either idiots or smart Republicans.
Sounds like Nooners herself.
Not Wrong. Very Right.
Yes, we can.
Si, se pueda.
Keep the gloves on, but focus on McStain et al.
Been arguing RICO for ages. Add it all up, Rethug money laundering, exploitation of non-profits to skirt legalities(HEAR ME NOW mr Grover?),
conspiracy to defraud, criminal malfeasance, and BRENT WILKES(Military industrial complex), bribery, extortion, and on and on…Thanks Hugh
Welcome to politics in the 21st Century. TV plus Internet equals “it never stops”.
The Clintons and the Bushes do not makeme proud of our country. Barck Obama and Michelle Obama do make me proud of our country.
What makes his point less valid is the sourcing he is using (or not), his failure to correct his statements when the errors are pointed out to him with evidence, etc.etc. We are all entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts.
I’m not going to get into a pie fight but if you want to find like minded individuals that will agree with the earlier generalized comments about Obama’s supporters, you won’t find it here.
Yep, know about that — it does have to be resolved one way or the other for the general. But until the primaries finish playing out, we won’t have any idea whether those delegates will or will not even make any difference whatsoever in the outcome. The way things are trending, they likely won’t…in which case, it is much ado about nothing.
And, frankly, we have enough fires to put out these days without having to put out ones that haven’t even gotten past the barely smoldering stage.
How? Um, going and talking with them perhaps? I’ve actually had a meeting with Mayor Daley myself and our group got him to sign off on something, and I don’t even live in Illinois. It had to do with a “Sister City” designation. We gave a “pitch” and he thought about, and got back us saying he approved. We didn’t have slide money under the table and he didn’t threaten to harm out families. Imagine that!
You also said:
I work with people like this constantly! I actually left a six figure income myself to work with nonprofits and businesses working to help the environment. To keep insisting Obama has had to become a corrupt politician to get anything done in Chicago is just not a very “realist” viewpoint IMO.
i have something worse in mind for the repugs
Amazingly, I wasn’t thinking of you. Although Christy will be happy to know I still remember what you said to me 2 years ago.
Ayers thing, as far as we know is a meeting in a private home in 1995. How about presumption of serendipitous meetings as a kind of innocence? I cross paths in professional circumstances with a former federal felon who did time for financial scullduggery. We are at small receptions together, we may even have exchanged pleasantries. OK public is not private meeting. But people unknown to me are encountered at parties all the time. Where’s the beef, so far?
The idea is to place someone in the White House who cares about you and me and other folks, and the well being of America, and the rest of the world. I’m thinking. In America, our most important product is our kids.
You are purposely trying to drive me to an early glass of pinot grigio, aren’t you? *g*
To come to the defense of Cujo, I don;t think his or her point is what WE think.
Not at all, I think I’ve been pretty good.
Got it. subject dropped.
Actually, I agree with you on that point. The government was making war against a country we had no real beef with. They were using the threat of violence, and occasionally actual violence, to keep the war machine fed. While I don’t condone violence in opposition, I certainly understand it in a way I don’t understand things like OK City or 9/11.
The problems are:
- You have to be in your late forties now to understand what was going on back then. Anyone much younger than that didn’t really live through it. To them, it’s a rather boring chapter in their American history course, or it’s tales about sit-ins and what not.
- Among those who did live through it, there are a substantial number who will disagree wholeheartedly with what you and I just wrote
That’s the problem with Ayers, IMHO.
I find I have to ration how much time I spend thinking of her. I’m not a crying person but…
OMG I miss that woman! Such a GIFT and such a HEART!?!
oh dang, here it comes … *sniffle*
I think you’re being a little hasty here. I thought that whole exchange between Cujo359 and others was worthwhile, if only for that Larry Johnson link (and I’m an Obama supporter). Just as that looseheadprop dirt-digging post on Obama-Rezko ties and the Siun rebuttal was valuable. Sometimes a little acrimony is the price of these explorations.
There is a book called “A Hope in the Unseen” by Ron Suskind. It’s the story of an African-American kid from DC who is a math wiz. He goes to Brown but in high school he has a meeting with Clarence Thomas. In college he ends up room mates with Dohrn’s son and meet the family. How’s his political future look?
de-lurking for just one moment to say: Christy, I give thanks for what you do every day. You are a hero.
And Raven? Thank you for what you bring here as well. I admire your clear memory, deep wisdom, and common sense here every day.
Did you ingratiate yourself with them? Are they working on your campaign? Did you win elections with their help, or at least with their acquiescence? I doubt it. Whatever resemblance there is between your life and his probably ends there.
Rut ro, I better split!
The article alone pretty much assured me of that.
now now… i was FIGHTING to keep myself from touching that one… *sigh*
Just be yourself, dear soul. Let it rip when it seem timely & appropriate.
Huzzah!
See you guys upstairs.
come join us upstairs, if you wish
I could argue quite easily that Clinton is not a hawk, but right now I have got to go out and do some campaigning for here.
I’ve been trying to make a case that you can bring people from all walks of life together to “better” society. I know (I’ll spare you other examples) you can do this without backroom deals and corruption.
Obama from all accounts is a master of this. As a consensus builder, he meets with so many different people who he then likely wins over, that the chances that some are nasty people are pretty high. Until there’s actual evidence that Obama has broken laws or sold out low-income people to power structures, I’m going to assume he’s innocent until proven guilty.
I’m happy people have been asking questions about Rezko, Daley connections and so on, but there comes a point when people need to realize there might not be any “there” there, otherwise it seems like a witchhunt a la Whitewater. It’s been odd to me how Obama embodies so much of what most of Liberal blogs have been waiting for all these years, yet for some people around the blogs, Obama can do absolutely nothing right. Wonder why that is?
If you were trying to explain why Obama was successful at getting things done in Chicago, I’d say you’d have a point. Actually, I’d have agreed. Instead, he seems to have gained their unqualified support, and these are not nice people. That’s a different thing.
What’s more, if the Rezko case is at all typical, it appears he wasn’t all that effective at advocating.
I look at everything skeptically, including political candidates. I’m not fond of any of the choices left, and had a reservation or two about all of them even when there were lots of them. The old saw that anything that looks too good to be true probably is applies here as much as anywhere.
Is Peggy Noonan a purveyor of kid porn?
Does Peggy Noonnan suck donkey dick?
Did anyone teach Peggy Noonan to put her character assassination in the declarative mode?
Ms. Noonan, like the equally talented David Brooks, writes to reinforce the prejudices of her class. She hates the images of the messy, hard, ordinary America the Obamas grew up in. She despises them for having succeeded despite the odds against it. (As few people go from the streets to Harvard Law as from the South Side to the NBA.)
Ms. Noonan writes about Obama the way she covered Dubya, but with the opposite goal. With Obama, she disguises that he earned his lifelong success, hoping to obscure the attributes that could make him a successful president. With Bush, she disguised his lifelong failures, hoping to obscure that that’s what he would be as president. Look how well that turned out.
lol!
Each time I hear Nooner speak I wonder how she keeps getting that script for horse tranquilizers refilled.
mmmmm…a paper’s function is to sell newspapers. They sell papers by getting people to read the articles in the paper. with extensive idiocy between its sheets such as noonan, the WSJ even gets lefty bloggers to read their paper, and…AND they get the lefty bloggers to tell everyone else about it so they can go read the paper for themselves too providing even more exposure for the idiots writing for the paper.
I guess those paper guys are pretty smart paying idiots like noonan to blather nonsense.
.
Now that is some funny shit.
Sure am proud not to be a “normal” American like Ms. Noonan. I dedicate this poem to her:
I love America and I love France, poor Ms. Noonan’s got a knot in her pants. What can one do, but look at her askance? Wish those nuts would come out of their trance!
Amen!
I think you’ve found the misunderstanding. They are of it, but she is full of it.
This kind of comment is what drives so many of us Hillary supporters crazy. Of course Noonan’s an idiot, but she didn’t say, or even imply, anything about Obama being black. It’s really offensive to keep hearing this shit from people who claim the Clinton’s are the ones playing the race card. This is hardly an isolated instance, either.
Last year I had hopes that Noonan, as a ‘leader’ of sorts of the Reagan Democrats would see the mess the Republicans have made of things and return to the Democratic side. Alas, it appears she is blind.
If the voter turnout for the primaries is a good indicator of things to come, then it could be that a lot of the Reagan Democrats have turned away from the Republicans and will ignore Noonan.
It just goes to show that someone who is good with words (and she is) isn’t necessarily very deep or sincere. Eh, too bad.
You are so right – I can imagine her snickering with her idle rich Connecticut friends at the NASCAR fans with the American flag decals plastered all over their trucks.
There are levels of patriotism. Progressive patriotism includes respect for the whole planet as well as our own country and leadership that unites in interdependent visionary solutions. Michelle O. was obviously referring to the last 7 years.
Peggy Noonan is a Wall St. Republican elitist writing saccharine consoling swill about people who service her Rolls.