ZED x2

Who cares about either of them and their pride lists.

I care about how people are treated in this country and by this country.

I give a 10 for the stuffed flag answer.

Howdy, Blue Texan!

And we we’re all proud of Cindy when she fed the monkey by stealing drugs from her charity too.

Damn proud.

Republican Proud!

That’s funny, one of the local wingnuts used almost the exact wording explaining how “Real Americans” remembered the “corruption and incompetence” of the two “worst Presidents” we had ever had, Carter and Clinton. I really shouldn’t read the Letters to Editor in the local paper, especially since they added the on-line comments!

Given that she’s lived through segregation, My Lai, and Abu Grhaib, though, that’s a fairly disturbing thing to say. Always? Really? No matter what it does?

Including torture of enemies? As was done to her husband?

And the day when GWB slapped a signing statement on her husband’s anti-torture legislation?

That must have been a *very* proud day…

I am sure she is proud that McCain used her family’s wealth to start his political career too. Or that McCain pulled a Newt Gingrich when his first wife was having problems. Real classy people those two are.

Of course they were against the intervention in the former Ugoslavia, but that’s different– that doesn’t mean they were against Ameruhkuh.

“My friends, thanks. Don’t listen to good, eloquent speeches. Listen to my speeches. And listen to me talk about how much experience I have. And look over your shoulder. See those brown people? Those terrorists? Venezuela? Yeah. My friends, that’s why you have vote for me.“

John McCain

Last Night

Yugoslavia.

Cindy is proud of her broken man for broken government.

The Story of Cindy McCain makin’ us all proud by stealin’ drugs.

Remember the link:

http://www.salon.com/news/feat...../18/drugs/

From wikipedia

Jingoism is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as “extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy”.[1] In practice, it refers to sections of the general public who advocate the use of threats of or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what they perceive as their country’s national interests, and colloquially to excessive bias in judging one’s own country as superior to others.

This pretty well sums up the MacJack family.

The thing to remember is there is a very BIG distinction between the two emotions…..Pride and Love and the opposite not proud and hate..

When I was stationed in Greece circa 1979….. I was not proud of what my country was doing overseas BUT I still loved my country, it was after all my country.

When Rummy started Shock and Awe …. I was beyond not proud…. I was ashamed but I still loved my country because it is my country.

I love my children but at times they do things that I am not proud about.
See different emotions…. YOU CAN love you country and still not be proud.

Americans have a long history of events that should make us NOT proud. The big one the wingnuts are bringing up is Reagan tearing down the Berlin law…. Gee if I remember that correctly (was in europe) it was the Germans who tore down that wall. History is viewed in the perspective of that person’s experience.

Brave words from a woman who was addicted Percocet and Vicodin, and stole the drugs from her non-profit to feed her habit. (H/T to tbogg for the link)

How Cindy McCain was outed for drug addiction

The entire story would likely have gone unreported if attorney John Dowd hadn’t entered the picture. He wrote to Maricopa County attorney Richard Romley, a political ally of McCain, and asked him to investigate Gosinski for extortion. …

Thus began the inadvertent outing of Cindy McCain. Although the federal investigative materials were not public, the county investigative materials were. Romley launched an investigation, and one of the first things his people did, naturally, was ask the feds to turn over their investigative materials.

New Times finally got hold of the county investigative materials and we did our own story. So did the Arizona Republic, which was uncharacteristically aggressive, perhaps because the McCain machine had left the paper out of the loop on the story of Cindy’s addiction.

Among the questions asked: Did Cindy McCain get preferential treatment by the feds? True, Cindy was a first-time offender, which partially explains the fact that she did no prison time; instead, she entered a diversion program. But at the time, defense lawyers told New Times that if Cindy McCain had been a poor minority and not married to a U.S. senator, she likely would have been locked up.

This is a standard political attack- Obama screwed up with her statement and McBush is jumping on it- that’s how the game is played. It’s so early that it doesn’t matter- what’s important is how the Obmama people respond. If they respond well and turn the thing around- they’ll get less attacks in the future- if they don’t respond or respond badly- they’ll get a lot more. Let’s see what Obama can do!

This is a stupid topic that will go away soon.

Sometimes honesty is not the best policy. Michelle Obama is right when she implies this country has done lots to be ashamed of including Vietnam and Iraq, but wrapping oneself in the flag has always been a powerful political move. No point unnecessarily stirring up these powerful emotions. It’s like the General Betrayus ad-generates more heat than light.

Push ‘em back, push ‘em back, waaaaaaaaaaay back. Way to go, Blue Texan.

Republican talking point LIE Of The Day: Obama most liberal Senator, as evidenced by the latest Rethug on MSNBC this morning.

I’m thinkin’ every Democratic talking head who goes on teevee needs to respond to the first question from the host with this preface: “First let me correct the record…The Republicans are lying when they call Obama the most liberal Senator. They and the National Review which created this distorted talking point need to quit lying about Barack Obama….”

Cindy McCain may have to revert back to Stepford wife mode. She does NOT want the spotlight.

I don’t much like the title of the post. I really hope we do not want to get in the hog-slop with them or anybody else. Isn’t there a way to pushback without sounding like “their” repulsive echo. I hope so, and I think Obama is trying to be very careful in his language for the most part. There was a PBS feature last night about the Klan in Arkansas. We need to let those people stay as far under their rock as possible.

There is much to be proud of and much to be ashamed of in this country. There always has been and always will be.

That said, anyone should know that to say “This is the first time I’ve been proud of my country” is to court electoral disaster, regardless of what country they live in.

The GOP stupid doesn’t seem to go away.

Well said. ’tis truth.

It’s so early that it doesn’t matter- what’s important is how the Obmama people respond.

Or in fact how the voters respond to Obama. If people who were wavering between clinton2 and obama get a WTF moment obama may well benefit from this continued rightwing idiocy

That’s what Kerry’s advisors said about the Swiftboat fiasco. It would be very foolish to count on it going away by itself. This incident calls for a very carefully crafted backoff.

Thanks Blue Texan.

It’s difficult to believe that up until the 1960’s, white supremacy was LEGAL throughout the U.S., north and south. It was perfectly legal, to not interview someone for a job, because they were Irish, Italian, Jewish, female, Native American or African American. It was perfectly legal not to rent or sell them a place to live. The Jim Crow laws were the cornerstone of segregation, Hitler used them as a model for his Nurnemberg Laws (1933).

According to Jim Crow, it was perfectly legal not to allow their children to attend school. It was perfectly legal for a physician not to treat them and for an attorney not to consult with them. It was perfectly legal not to extend them credit or the writ of habeas corpus.

OT, I’m glad you brought up My Lai. I never even knew about
Hugh Thompson, Jr., RIP, until I started reading FDL. Without him it would have been even worse.

Hey -forget GWB for a moment - it would be nice to have a *real*, competent, eloquent First Lady after 7 years without having one of those either…

Democrats. We are ‘the family values party’. That is… we subscribe to the notion that health care should be provided to everyone, we demand quality education for our kids, we pursue decent and equal wages for our working women and men, and want them to have the right to organize, we like diplomacy rather than war, we think birth control is better left in the hands of the ladies who carry our children, we approve, in no uncertain terms of ethnic equality, we like the rule of law, we are partial to freedom of religion, privacy and liberty, and we are on the side of fairness. We support our soldiers and want them home, safe and sound. And most importantly, we love the constitution. And the list goes on and on. If these few things are not ‘family values’, then I don’t know what is.

There was a PBS feature last night about the Klan in Arkansas. We need to let those people stay as far under their rock as possible.

IMO, it’s better to tip over that rock and shine a light on them. Remove their power to instill fear by taking off their hoods and discrediting their arguments.

C’mon, I posted on this yesterday: for silly statements, I call it a tie.

Two words for ya Cindy, Kitty Dukakis

Lets see…. Is Cindy McBush proud of….

Genocide in Dufar?
Millions if Iraqi refugees?
Millions of Iraqi citizens dead in this war/occupation?
Iran contra?
Reagan negotiating behind the government to keep the hostages until elected?
Death squads in south america?
Embargo with North Korea?
Embargo with Saddam era Iraq where thousands of children died?
That Reagan ignored the AIDS/HIV growing epidemic?
How about Abu Ghraib?
And 47 million Americans without Health Insurance?

OK, here’s the thing.

Y’all need to simmer down. Attacking someone for being ‘proud of their country’ just smacks of being so angry that nothing they say can or will have any positive impact on you.

Don’t fall into the trap of rejecting everything that comes out of someone’s mouth just on principle. It’s an emotional stance that smacks of wingnuttery at its finest– and we’re (supposed to be, in our own minds) better than that.

yup

Watch the mighty wurlitzer try to gin up some outrage on this… it will
not work because we are in another political time frame now, the old
line of attack against the left has been worn out after decades of
success. Not complacent here, just seems that Bushco has actually trashed
their own methods by overexposure and repetition. They also lack a credible personality to carry the message. McCain is another sacraficial
candidate like Dole, marking time for the 2012 run by Jeb. It’s over.

Ruth Marcus, Wapo columnist, calls for Hillary to let herself go - be more like John McCain.

yeah - that oughta bring in those Democratic votes…

I can only take her at her word. If she’s always proud of the country, she’s proud of segregation.

I thought Blue Texas covered that here:

To wingnuts, patriotism means loving your country like a child loves her mommy — it can do no wrong. Ever.

That’s probably a better way to say it; my point is that I do not want us to be in the same mudslinging “pissing” contest. Both these women probably misspoke. And the racist card, explict and innuendo, will be deceitful and nauseating. (per Rush yesterday). I just think our response has to be measured to not respond in kind. It’s way too easy to say “Yeah your mother…” but gets us no where.

I’m doing nothing of the sort. I’m pointing out that it’s completely fake to say you’re always proud of the country. The country makes mistakes, terrible, tragic mistakes, that no one should take pride in.

I apologize for following up to my own comment, but I want to point out that there was a team of “spin doctors” who followed Reagan, the Great Communicator, around and talk to the press after each of his speeches, explaining what the president really meant. Recall, Reagan was so far into Alzheimers that he all but drooled on himself during his final debate. And as he aged he tended to stray from his script and would launch into some absolutely crazy blithering.

My point is that slips like Michelle made need not be fatal, but they must be handled carefully and quickly. It turns out that Barack did a very good job of respinning it this morning:

“I’m proud of my country,” she said. “I don’t know about you, if you had heard those words earlier, I’m very proud of my country.”

The Obama campaign e-mailed reporters a clarification of Michelle Obama’s remarks.

“What she meant is that she’s really proud at this moment because for the first time in a long time, thousands of Americans who’ve never participated in politics before are coming out in record numbers to build a grass-roots movement for change.”

You rock, sir, in many ways. Well said.

This is where I have to disagree….

Michelle may and probably misspoke BUT Cindy McCain’s comment was calculated and planned. There is a big difference. She planned this attack and it was all over the local TeeVee here in AZ…. Do not underestimate that woman, it is partly due to her shrewed work that McBush is where he is now.

Senator Obama inspires.

And the day when GWB slapped a signing statement on her husband’s anti-torture legislation?

Wonder if she was proud when her own husband voted against the bill to make torture illegal recently? Wonder if she’s proud when her husband flip-flops against his own principles to pander to the right?

I cringed when I heard Michelle’s statement. While she certainly has the standing and the right to say it, it was not smart politics.

It may be that we overwhelm R’s in the turnout game this fall. OTOH, keeping in mind the turnout was close enough in the past two elections for the ‘pugs to steal, it may be a close run thing (I believe that will turn out to be the case).

This is exactly the kind of thing to energize the lizard brains - it plays right into the Osama/Obama BS, as well as their fear and loathing of uppity and ungrateful brown people.

Let sleeping dogs lie, fergawdssake! The time to impose ourselves is when we control both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue.

Every campaign makes mistakes - winners make the right adjustments. For all of our sakes, I hope Obama responds brilliantly and moves on.

OT… if you run microsoft XP and get updates automatic , check your FIREWALL setting… it might have turned it off….!

Control panel adjust to on .
This has been for all FDL’S

Typical GOP thinking there is no problem unless it effects us but then its always someone else’s fault, cause were perfect. In our drug coma marriage getting fish poison and plastic surgery after surgery all for a man who apparently shows G.W more affection than he shows his own wife.
Cause hey if you got Keating Five bribe money coming in you don’t have to work all that hard to fundraise for you political campaign, that and the Senate has some easy hours.
I think she still might be using.

Exactly. Which is why we need to hit her back.

Well said.

FWIW, from the slave perspective, the Civil War was about elevating them above the level of cattle. Most abolitionists favored segregation.

Hmmmmm. Plagiarism! http://firedoglake.com/2008/02.....nt-1284918

I just clicked on a link at Kos…my computer got confused…I rebooted, and now all my bookmarks are gone.

I really hope we do not want to get in the hog-slop with them or anybody else. Isn’t there a way to pushback without sounding like “their” repulsive echo. I hope so, and I think Obama is trying to be very careful in his language for the most part.

Part of Obama’s appeal is that he doesn’t “bite” when the rethugs bait him with innocuous crap. Let the hysterical talking heads babble on. People see Obama as staying above the fray leading America(hopfully) to a new political reality.

The presidency is Obama’s to lose. McCain will have to be aggressive to have any chance at all.

I think we are asking people not to apply that level of literalism to the McCain statement. By the rule you apply, I guess, we would have to take Michelle at her word, too, no matter how overstated. It seems to me…

Maybe– but that doesn’t mean you should fall into the same trap, and everything the wingnuts say is worthy of ridicule, as opposed to saying everything the country does is worth of adoration.

Leave it alone. Someone says they’re proud of their country, and they can always say “Because we’ve gotten through all of that, and we’ve gotten better, and we continue to get better, even when we do bad things.” And that would be a stance I’d actually agree with.

Ol’ Mrs McBush has alot of skeletons in her closet. She has now introduced herself to the riff, and so let the scrutiny begin. I keep hearing the wingnut meme that they are gathering all their forces to go against Obama…Um….what do they think ,the netroots are just going to sit by and let the swiftboating go unanswered AGAIN…UH…Methinks …NOT …by a long shot.

It’s way too easy to say “Yeah your mother…” but gets us no where.

Ya mean like - “Your momma is so fat that the sign inside one restaurant says, “Maximum occupancy, 512, or Your momma.” !

Or is that one of the ones I should leave alone?

My point is, the fact that McCain is applying that literalism to Michelle — rather intentionally — so should she be subjected to the same literalism.

Hopefully this will expose the entire exchange as absurd.

The Cindy story is top diary over at Kos with hundreds of comments. The cat’s outta da bag…

Meant to say to the Michelle statement; going to work. Hate to leave such good company.

McCainiacs pushing Obama on campaign financing. We must make sure McCain’s murky dealings pattern– Keating, campaign loan this season, etc… don’t get lost in the conversation…

And not get distracted by the Rethugs effort to build a “cat fight”

Cindy “Bud Girl” McCain cannot remember last week, much less the last
7 years of St.McCain enabling another alcoholic joy ride in a stolen car.

These kinds of smears have to be rebutted, and very hard.

Remember the Swift Boats?

I went to Alabama in 1963 with a classmate and listened to his relatives tell me: “You Yankees have it all wrong; we love our colored folk ’round here.” I suddenly realized that they though they were being accused of mistreating their pets and livestock. It was quite an education for me. Quite different from the out-and-out race hatred I’d seen in the North.

Perhaps to make your point even stronger you should update your post with Michelle Obama’s full quote.

LS …that diary is just the beginning. From what I am hearing there are going to be some interesting youtubes with pics coming in the next few weeks….not going to be pretty, I don’t know if I agree with that tactic, but Mrs Stepford McBush started it.

Hours of discussion and thousands of words about pride have not elucidated one freakin issue one freakin iota

Yes she did…she cast the first stone…bring it on.

Giving credit to John Edwards….

This tempest…. exactly how will this help people get health care, get our military out of Iraq, help rebuild Katrina?

It is starting…. about time too…
Sorry Cindy McCain, It’s Time to Take the Gloves Off

Yep.

marking time for the 2012 run by Jeb

Oh we can only hope that they try and run Jeb in 12.

Oh please, baby, please, please, please!

You’re right — post fixed.

It used to be that way here in regards to Hispanics but the Brown Scare changed all of that….

To wingnuts, patriotism means loving your country like a child loves her mommy — it can do no wrong. Ever.

Interesting. ‘Cause I think a lot of us love our country the way a parent loves a child. We always love them, and when they mess up, we try to help them do better next time.

I saw this heartbreaking film on PBS, in which certain towns practiced ethnic cleansing a hundred years ago, and still begrudge the reparations or the return of black citizens. It’s a good one. I recommend it. I doubt McCain’s wife will watch though.

I cribbed that line from Al Franken. But #15 was right — it’s about pride.

Love that.

I don’t know… I’m not really proud of more than 50% of Democratic primary voters who are just enthralled by a guy who speaks lemon meringue. Sometimes I think the only reason he is supported is because he is half-black. I think the general election is going to be W vs. W. An insincere, inexperienced, unaccomplished, speechifyin’, half-black, young guy vs. an over-70 lunatic, rage-susceptible, very-white guy, who thinks a hundred years or more in Iraq would be just fine. Jesus! We’re in for another four years of insane destruction.

She does look like a Stepford wife from the original movie.

I was only guessing at what the pukes must be thinking, and the ‘96 run
by Dole was an obvious suicide mission. Jeb is just too slick for the
post Junya years, he is history as well… the pukes will have to retool
themselves… heh.

I agree the title doesn’t “work” with wingnuts and large swaths of the Jane and Joe six-pack crowd. I think Blue Texan understands that within the FDL community, we are patriots who really do love our country, warts and all. We just aren’t going to pretend the warts don’t exist.

I am proud of America with my eyes wide open. Am I proud of our sins, beginning with the genocide of native Americans, running though slavery and up unto Abu Ghraib? Of course not.

I am proud because the founders wrote a “promissory note” of what might be. We have made spectacular advances (ending slavery, the New Deal, civil rights), and in the past eight years, regressed further than we believed possible.

If we lived in China or Saudi Arabia, we would have no claim on that promissory note. Europe enjoys the benefits of that note because we saved them from madness twice in the last century, and kept the USSR from overrunning them.

I understand we criticize our country because we love it, and want it to fulfill its potential.

We also need to understand that can be perceived as unpatriotic to the uninitiated, and manipulated by the ‘pugs.

The solution is to show the love along with the critique.

I think the general election is going to be W vs. W. An insincere, inexperienced, unaccomplished, speechifyin’, half-black, young guy vs. an over-70 lunatic, rage-susceptible, very-white guy, who thinks a hundred years or more in Iraq would be just fine.

What, you don’t like american idol?

gracias
si se puede
And Just disregard the inanities from the right today-it be mierda de toro, just flush toilet.

Nice. Gonna remember that one.

mierda de toro

Hey that’s not fair I don’t speak Latin

if you run microsoft XP

Why in heavens name would I ever do that?

“What, you don’t like american idol?”

*laughs* mmm, nope not at all

I like how the Team Obama response pointed out how Michelle and Barack both constantly talk about how only in America both of them can rise to this level, given their respective backgrounds, and how much they love this country for that.

Thanks very much.

I had never heard of those towns.

FWIW, prior to its destruction in 1921, the African American section of Tulsa was known as the “Black Wall Street.”

We got called to Son in Ohio’s school yet again yesterday. He has Asperger’s Syndrome, and sadly we’re still without an adequate IEP at his middle school. This is the kid who starts high school next year. Occasionally he gets sent-home-but-not-technically-suspended, and yesterday was one of those days. This happens because of some behavioral issue on the part of our son–but also because the school does not have a proactive plan in place.

As my husband talked to one of the teachers, I was trying to calm my son and talk to him about the situation. So this was very much on my mind when I read the mommy comment. Could I say I was proud of him for his behavior in school that day? Of course not. But I was about helping him try to do better next time.

At some point McCain will get defensive and tell the media and us to stop attacking his family.
Now I don’t know about the Media but I do know that if any of us starts a false rumour about McCain we will be called on it and have to apologize or risk getting banned.
So our attacks at least will be based on truth or consequences for the commenter.
Which is more than Mr lets win in Iraq but hug the man who insults your daughter can say about Bush. Its more than Mr lets ignore what the Swift Vote Jerks are saying about a fellow Vet and keep hugging Bush.
So when McCain attacks us for investigating him and his family lets remember McCain only attacks people in the OutGroup.
Ingroup people treat him though as the anti alpha wolf, the wolf who always gets picked on by all the other wolves in the pack, but who’s name escapes me now.

wingnut patriotism or any patriotism in the hands of dubious power=death for young men and women, let’s be very clear about that. It is not a goddamn joke.
Like some fat bitch wearing purple heart on her chin.

(((Renee)))

“At some point McCain will get defensive and tell the media and us to stop attacking his family.”

“FUCK YOU! You little FUCKING JERK! Leave my FUCKING family alone!”

Oh, I live for the day.

OT at C&L:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/...../#comments

Prairie View A&M students organized to protest the decision, because they felt it hindered their ability to vote.

And a comment at C&L:
Jaden
“
I live in Houston close the beltway 8 SW side and this is the first time I’m hearing about this story =/

Shows just how our deaf, dumb, and blind media keeps us informed about what really is going on around us even ever so close.
“

From above title is:
Thousands of Students March 7 Miles To Vote
http://www.crooksandliars.com/...../#comments

Cindy McBush is now joining in the game- so she becomes FAIR game. It’s OK to take a shot at her- but Obama needs to take one that will give him an advantage…Sayin that Cindy has no business bein proud of this piece of shit country is probably not a winning line in my opinion.

It will be interesting to watch him get really pissed while his serene botox brows refuse to cooperate.

“FUCK YOU! You little FUCKING JERK! Leave my FUCKING family alone!”

Oh, I live for the day.

Would have been nice to see back in 2000 - delivered to one George W. Bush.

That story tracks with my experience. Rural NC has been mixed all of my life - black and white farmers shared the same communities. When intergration occurred, we didn’t need bussing - kids of both colors lived along the same bus route.

Imagine my surpise when I moved North, and found blacks mostly confined to the cities. Rural and suburban Ohio was whiter than rural NC. My wife lived in a bedroom community of a major city, and of a graduating class of 400, six were black.

Amazing.

“really proud”

How soon after the statement did it take for the “really” to get knocked off. I feel bad for Michelle as she spent to much time educating herself, the more you know the less you want to. Its more than sad.

“My country, no matter what” is a ridiculous way to think.

“I have, and always will be, proud of my country.”

Vietnam? A cause for pride? Watergate? Genocide of the Native Americans? Environmental destruction? Rampant religious findamentalism? Enron? Torture? Abu Ghraib? The K.K.K. and racism? Jena?

And on and on.

I have, and always will be, critical of my country. Because it’s the only way we shed light on the crimes and horrors that knee-jerk patriots like Cindy and John McCain want to whitewash over.

I posted about this last night, it made me proud and happy-kinda cleaned some of the shit off the windshield.

They mean always.

Did anyone else get the scare of their life yesterday listening to McC? He is a “superstitious figher pilot” amoung many other Dr. Strangelove references…what does that mean he is going to pick cool dates to bomb people on?

Yep it will be a long day at the Lake while listening to KO drinking Green Tea. Sometimes I wonder if the rise of the blogs is effecting caffine consumption?

I posted about this last night, it made me proud and happy-kinda cleaned some of the shit off the windshield.
—
Thanks, its a great story and a great picture. I hope Obama is right, or Clinton as the case may be.

Some are defending Obamas on the grounds that they are black and therefore experienced the rough side of america….that, of course, is the exact opposite of the way Barack wants to present himself…He’s the best candidate for president first and black second. If that gets switched- he loses.

An argument can be made that Barack grew up white in america anyway- but that’s neither here nor there. At this point he needs a log cabin to have grown up in.