AP (via MSNBC) reports that the SCOTUS rejected the ACLU's challenge in the 6th circuit to the Bush Administration's warrantless wiretapping through NSA means on "standing" grounds. (ACLU v. National Security Agency, 07-468.) AP reports:
The American Civil Liberties Union wanted the court to allow a lawsuit by the group and individuals over the wiretapping program. The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed the suit, saying the plaintiffs could not prove their communications had been monitored.
The government has refused to turn over information about the closely guarded program that could reveal who has been under surveillance.
ACLU legal director Steven R. Shapiro has said his group is in a "Catch-22" because the government says the identities of people whose communications have been intercepted is secret. But only people who know they have been wiretapped can sue over the program, Shapiro has said.
"Standing" means that the person suing must be able to prove that they have a legitimate claim of right for damages or other harm -- and must be able to prove that they were, in fact, touched by the actions of the person being sued (in this case, the US government). SCOTUSblog has more here. And they have a fantastic case summary here, including:
Scarcely a month after the disclosure of the NSA program in the media, the ACLU brought suit in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan along with a host of scholars, journalists, attorneys, and other organizations whose work required them to communicate with individuals overseas thought to be likely targets of NSA surveillance. Moving for summary judgment, the plaintiffs submitted declarations from numerous criminal lawyers for accused terrorists, who, due to the possibility of government surveillance, asserted that they felt compelled to cease communicating by phone and e-mail with their clients and certain witnesses - or that such individuals were no longer willing to communicate with them.
Invoking the state secrets doctrine, as it has with all other challenges to the NSA program, the federal government argued that disclosing whether the plaintiffs themselves had been subject to surveillance could harm national security. Though finding the privilege to have been properly invoked, U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor nonetheless found - on the basis of information government officials had publicly disclosed - that the program violated not only FISA, but separation-of-powers principles and the First and Fourth amendments.
Meanwhile, the administration announced a suspension of the program in January 2007 after receiving approval to conduct identical surveillance from a judge on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Then, over the summer, a divided panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit reversed the district court’s finding. Writing separately, Judges Alice Batchelder and Julia Smith found that the plaintiffs - whose injuries they deemed conjectural, self-imposed, and likely to persist even if the NSA was required to obtain warrants - lacked standing to challenge the program.
Ultimately, it looks as though SCOTUS found the standing argument compelling enough here not to delve more deeply into the issues involved which, sadly, is not at all a surprise considering this particular court's record on national security cases.
This decision does not, however, negate the pending case(s) in San Francisco in which the EFF and ACLU, among others, represent the interests of plaintiffs who discovered their phones had been monitored through whistleblower information that the government inadvertently produced in discovery -- those cases are ongoing.
A quick ACLU fact sheet on the case is here. Government's response brief is available online here. John Dean had a fantastic discussion of "state secrets" and why it shouldn't be used to cloak potential wrongdoing in this case.
More as I get it on this...
UPDATE: Because comic relief is essential to sanity maintenance, I had to share this.
UPDATE #2: Just got statements from the ACLU:
The following is from Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU’s National Security Project:
“Congress enacted the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act intending to protect the rights of U.S. citizens and residents, and the president systematically broke that law over a period of more than five years. It’s very disturbing that the president’s actions will not be reviewed by the Supreme Court. It shouldn’t be left to executive branch officials alone to determine what limits apply to their own surveillance activities and whether those limits are being honored. Allowing the executive branch to police itself flies in the face of the constitutional system of checks and balances.”
The following is from Steven R. Shapiro, Legal Director of the ACLU:
“Although we are deeply disappointed with the Supreme Court’s refusal to review this case, it is worth noting that today’s action says nothing about the case’s merits and does not suggest in any way an endorsement of the lower court’s decision. The court’s unwillingness to act makes it even more important that Congress insist on legislative safeguards that will protect civil liberties without jeopardizing national security.”
No link on this yet as it came via e-mail, but will add one when I get one. NOTE: Here's the promised link to the ACLU press release on this.
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I knew I could count on you for the 411 on this. Thanks.
2?
Where the hell is my country? This is insane.
I wonder if someone released the contents of one the SCOTUS Judge’s personal phone calls, would things be different? (Or have they, on a “personal” level?)
*cough* conservative *cough* activist judges *cough*
Cancel The election bush is king george.
wiretap the judges: good idea.
I read about a computer detective who met with a corporation that had one VP who wasn’t convinced the guy could do the job. As they sat there badgering the guy, he was able to tap into the company computer and pull up an email from this married VP to his girlfriend.
He made his point and got the job.
Naomi Wolf
Cheney is the King. Bush is merely the court jester.
The Spies Who Love You!
Christy,
Is it possible that discovery in the SF case would cause a refile in this particular case?
Now THAT is amusingly clever. Good way to make his point.
I love Naomi Wolf!
*g*
no secrets. no secret government, thank you!
No, the discovery in SanFran is plaintiff-specific for that case. An individual has to prove that they have a direct connection to sustain a standing claim — it’s can’t just be an amorphous maybe, maybe not. Wired had a great piece from the judge in the SanFran case on that issue (I linked it above, but here’s the link again so you don’t have to scramble for it) wherein the judge talks about that Alice in Wonderland feeling in cases like this.
Time to put impeachment back on the table. Impeachment of Supreme Court Justices that is. Alito and Scalia at the least.
As do I, I just don’t like the fact that what she wrote is knocking on our doors with such a voracious appetite, when I am out of food.
Thank you. (slithering back under my rock)
And, good morning to you all.
Boy, all this legal wrangling over state secrets is giving me a headache. I’m sure Harriet Miers could spare an Advil. Too bad she’s not SCOTUS. She could clear all this up right quick.
Sorry, no impeachments. Nancy is far too busy not accomplishing things to be distracted by impeachments.
I bet I know who’s got all their incriminating phone calls and e-mails!
Question for the lawyers: How does the statute of limitations work here? Does the government’s refusal to release information push the clock back? In other words, if we find out five years from now that EVERYONE’s calls were monitored, can the telecoms claim that the statute of limitations is up and they can’t be sued? Or does the government’s refusal to release information reset the clock?
Nice catch 22. This whole wiretap thing stinks to high heaven. I’m not really sure how we’re going to roll back this crap, but I think pitchforks and torches will be involved.
hmm, so, not so much conservative judges as more just giving deference to the executive.
So the court says the plaintiffs can’t prove they were actually wiretapped. Why won’t the government just admit whether or not the plaintiffs were actually wiretapped? This is completely blatant.
Judge Harry Pregerson (left, in file photo) suggests the government is asking the courts to “rubber stamp” the government’s claim that state secrets are at risk “Who decides whether something is a state secret or not? … We have to take the word of the members of the executive branch that something is a state secret?”
Garre counters that the courts should give “utmost deference” to the Bush administration.
o matters Judge Pregerson: “What does utmost deference mean? Bow to it?”
2:30pm PDT
All three judges are giving Garre skeptical questions about the power of the state secrets privilege. They’re also getting stonewalled a bit.
“Was a warrant obtained in this case?” Judge Pregerson asks.
“That gets intthat were protected by state secrets,” Garre replies.
?-wtf, am I wrong or is this more Orwellian doublespeak-educate me please, form my humble perspective my country is being taken from me.
Can’t say it any better than that.
Once again the post 911 cowed Article III’s, and once again specifically the cowed S. Ct. can’t muster 4 votes to even grant cert. cowed by bin Ladin, cowed by the ridiculous new DOJ toy, State Secrets.
You’re seeing what happens when you have a Roberts and Alito on the court, lobbying for the cowed society of chicken judges with no backbone.
If you can’t get cert., you aren’t going to win your S. Ct. case–that I know.
This is what the ACLU and othersthat try to restore the Constitution will be up against for years and years now with this Court.
Hi Christy.
It seems to me that they have put in place an effective stone wall, where one cannot sue without standing, and one cannot gain standing without the data currently being kept secret.
Hmmm. I don’t see how this can possibly be favorably resolved during this administration…perhaps this would be a good time to really press our Presidential candidates on their position vis-a-vis this case…perhaps ask them whether or not they would release the target data, and thus allow people to claim standing?
Digg it , baby
Thank you Christy,
Mr.Cbl is right!
Something places like FDL could as well if there were more of us, and more of us “Supporting This Site” in the upper right hand corner of this page, where TPM is hiring a full-time “reporter.” We could put Timmeh and Tweety out to pasture if we would get more people on-board here.
In case any of the excellent investigators here are interested:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/jobs.php#Jobs
The Revolution will be not be televised.
Alito and Roberts will be there for many administrations to come–about 30-35. It was about 4 cert. votes that the S. Ct.didn’t have the courage to give for this case to even get argued.
Gleen Greenwald has his usual trenchant analysis of this move including these two passages:
1-
Thus, even to date, the only two judges ever to rule on the legality of Bush’s NSA program — District Judge Diggs Taylor and the Sixth Circuit’s Judge Gilman — have both ruled that it was illegal.
The ACLU appealed the Sixth Circuit’s procedural ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court and today, the Court announced that it would not hear the appeal, thus bringing an end to the ACLU’s legal challenge to the NSA program (even though no judge has ever ruled the program legal)…
2-
More significantly, recall that in May of last year, former Deputy Attorney General James Comey testified that through 2004, the Bush administration was doing something with domestic surveillance that was so patently illegal, so extreme and unconscionable, that the entire top level of the DOJ — including John Ashcroft, FBI Director Robert Mueller, and Comey — threatened to resign if it continued. These are the same officials who would go on to endorse the NSA warrantless spying program. That’s how extreme they are. Yet whatever it was that the Bush administration was doing back then was so illegal that even these right-wing extremists would have resigned in protest….we still have no idea what they did. We’re completely in the dark…
There’s reason to argue the state secrets privilege shouldn’t be invoked in any case.
If, for no other reason, regardless of what it might mean regarding anything that affects the citizenry of this country, this latest action by the SOTUS is all the justification for voting for the Democratic candidate in the upcoming Opresidential election. It is as simple as that.
Is the SCOTUS giving up their own sanctioned power away and giving in to the President’s deranged perception of Priviledge?
And, I think it’s hysterical that the suit(s) in San Francisco have standing because of the governments carelessness.
Someone downstairs had mad a funny comment about inept villians.
Updated above with statements from the ACLU.
Flaccid fascism in action.
-G
They spied on us and are one step closer to getting away with it entirely.
In Germany circa 1933-45 the high courts ruled that Nazi actions were also legal under German law. The more things change the more they stay the same.
So doesn’t a subset of the SCOTUS review and rule on the appeal?
” We could put Timmeh and Tweety out to pasture if we would get more people on-board here.-Bonkers@32
Moo
Peterboy@34, we fight with our words, we fight with our actions, i.e. calling, writing. We stand on the corner. I talk, and have been talking for 7 years, I have been given looks of contempt, laughed at, threatened. Yet, this goes on above our heads unrelenting in its race to deny us the rights our forefathers penned at risk of death-what are we willing to sacrifice? a question I ask myself.
Christy, in one set of the eco-arsonists trials in the PNW, a group (four? five?) of the defendants had been incriminated by peers who cooperated with law enforcement.
This “non-cooperating” group was able to negotiate plea agreements which resulted in far fewer charges (and hence significantly lesser sentences). In addition, the group negotiated plea agreements in which they agreed to describe their own criminal acts, but did not name any other parties.
Quite a good agreement when the Gov had eyewitnesses who placed the non-cooperators right at the scene of the crimes the Feds agreed to plea bargain on.
The Federal judge in the trial had sustained the non-cooperators’ demands for all relevant surveillance of their persons and activities.
This outstanding demand appeared to be the only bargaining chip left for the non-cooperators.
Who cares?
Well, does “standing” require direct certain knowledge of illegal surveillance, or would the inference of such illegal surveillance suffice?
In response to Mr. Shapiro (ACLU),
if you take away the rock and the paper, all you’ve got left are the scizzors.
And the constitution.
Bad combination I think.
Standing is a favorite Roberts Court rationale for throwing out cases of ordinary Americans and their advocates. In the eyes of this corrupt and radically conservative court only Congress has standing, sometimes, occasionally, and if the wind is blowing in the right direction.
OT The Air Force needs more money. Apparently $117 billion isn’t enough. Their fleet is aging. Of course, they really aren’t spending their money on that. That is so unsexy. No, it’s much more important to spend gazillions of dollars on their super duper horrifically expensive new fighters the F-22 and F-35 because they need to maintain air superiority over all those countries to whom we sold F-15s and F-16s. What a bunch of WATBs.
Air Force story link:
http://www.time.com/time/natio.....ss-netzero
Glenn,
this graf is in wapo story on SJC ruling:
Last August, Congress made temporary changes to FISA that made the warrantless wiretapping legal in some instances and also extended immunity from lawsuits to telecommunications companies that help with the intercepts.
was immunity in the temporary act in August?
peterboy
Preznit McCain has a plan to cut taxes. That magically causes more money to be available for government spending. We can buy all of the fance planes we want. It’s a modern miracle!
So much more eloquent than I, Doc. My earlier question was based on my understanding that the SF case had the potential for confirming that a zero filter tap was in use. That would raise, in my mind, the possibility that you could see a class action with a class of 10s of millions.
No way, this the court to the right of the one that installed Bush II in 2000 thus causing the partial downfall of the US? What a shock.
God, imagaine all the Fed courts that are going to be stacked for the next 40 years.
The pearl clutching about the ‘geriatric fleet’ is a bit much.
What have you guys been spending hundreds of billions of dollars on in the past 50 years?
America is destined to spend its treasure on war mongering. We are going to do the missile shootdown too. More money for SDI!
China is looking at US the way we looked at Russia in the 80’s. Keep spending money and fighting in Afghanistan and the Afghani’s will score a twofer.
-G
was immunity in the temporary act in August?
Not retroactive immunity. Prospective immunity is part of existing law, and prospective immunity (if you follow the statute, a case against you will be dismissed) is continued under the PAA.
Prospective immunity for telecom cooperation during the extension but not retrospective immunity for what they had been doing for the last 6 years.
Are we all dead yet?
Terrah, Terrah, Terrah, Booga, Booga, Booga.
No, we’ve just been taken back over two hundred years.
We have to wait until 11:59pm to find out if we made it.
OT, but this thought kept me up last night, and I have to go do errands so
can’t wait for a more fitting thread.
Yesterday’s NYT Op-Ed page presented, literally, Krugman on the left and
Kristol on the right. Krugman’s piece is well worth reading, but it is
Kristol’s column that occupies my thoughts. It was called ‘Democrats should
read Kipling’, and its closing paragraph goes:
“To govern is to choose, a Democrat of an earlier generation, John F. Kennedy,
famously remarked. Is this generation of Democrats capable of governing?”
In the context of the column, this is a rhetorical question; the answer
Kristol expects to hear is “No!”. I had forced myself to read the whole
column, and I had expected to find Brooksian sophistry, but I think that
Kristol may have written more honestly than he intended, for I believe that he
really means this opinion to be taken seriously: Democrats cannot be allowed
to direct the course of this country. I suggest that this is not a new idea
for him, but has been spoken openly or in code among those who would like to
be the ruling elite of the United States for some years. I also suggest that
it is a unifying hypothesis which explains much Republican activity of the
past years and can predict their actions in the future.
Kristol’s toxic assertion presumes that U.S. society is dichotomous, composed
of a worthy, clear-thinking elite and a muddle-headed, unruly mass. The
former are the Republicans; the latter are the Democrats. The former, in the
nature of elites, are few; the latter are numerous, very, very numerous. How
are the elite to come to power in a voting society?
The puzzle for the elite is how to rule in a country where “one person, one
vote” is an honored ideal. This is where Karl Rove and Hans von Spakovsky
come in: they work to be sure that the non-elite mass does NOT have a number
of votes equal to their number. Then there are other tactics: poison the
courts, corrupt the very process of counting the votes, steal elections
outright, prosecute and torment Democratic officials selectively.
The other tactic is to siphon off blocs of the ignorant mass which, if they
were to choose in their own best interest, would probably be Democratic.
Thus, the racist Southern strategy and the cultivation of the fundamentalist
Christians have not a thing to do with the true interest of those groups, but
simply are maneuvers to whittle down the number of the despicable mass.
Now add in the “When — not ‘if’ — when martial law is declared” heard in
the InfraGard briefings. (Google who wills.) Perhaps one would assume that
social unrest so severe that martial law would have to be declared would be
the result of natural disasters, but Kristol’s column conveys such
definiteness, that he and his ilk may have thought of another possibility.
Well, errands call
Mr. Cbl, I love your idea, and I’d love to see any/all situations that could be leveraged into “standing” used to expose this massive criminal conspiracy among the telcos and their Federal handlers.
(and thanks for your kind words, but whatever I may offer in word choice is but a mote in my sea of typos).
WRT the Rethugs’ court stacking:
As Scalia continues to opine on matters yet to come before the court, other neo-con Supremes gave false testimony to Congress, and a whole raft of Federal Judges have been bribed jetting off to seminars at uber-wealthy resorts paid for by the major industries that depend on the Court to find plaintiffs lack standing, I’m hoping that the political tool of impeachement may be used to remove (or elicit the resignations) of the most egregiously corrupt criminals the Rethugs have installed on the Federal bench.
I don’t disagree with you, BUT. . .
I’ve got a sinking feeling that bad things could *cough* happen *cough* just to prove their point on PAA.
And even if we do end up having hearings, what do they ever amount to? There are no consequences, just “I didn’t do anything wrong” from the parties being questioned and “uh, well, okay then” from the committee, and that ends the matter. Even if the evidence of wrongdoing comes out, it doesn’t seem to bring about any results. Like Blackwater, for instance. What did that accomplish?
I don’t understand why Conyers was all up for impeachment hearings before the Democrats took the House back, and now the Dems all seem cowed. What happened between then and now?
What happened? Speaker Pelosi happened.
Revered leader Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi.
For those not well versed in the law, ’standing’ is not a bogus concept.
The traditional view is that parties have standing to raise constitutional issues only when their personal rights are affected, and that the gist of the question of standing is whether the party seeking relief has alleged such a personal stake in the outcome of a controversy as to assure concrete adverseness that sharpens the the presentation of the issue.
In other words it is essential that the entity bringing the action have skin in the game.
I don’t know enough about this particular case to venture an opinion as to whether the Supreme Court made the right call in this matter.
Then Bushco has something on her. There is no rhyme or reason for this. Is she stupid enough to think the republics would allow a dem to get away with all this crap. I don’t think they ever intent to give up power. Something is going to happen before the election and lil boots is going to invoke martial law. Why grab all this power to give it to a dem? They know crazy train doesn’t have an ice cubes chance in hell.
McCain is a placeholder. You should care greatly who the VP candidate is.
The Bush-Cheney model.
I care very much. I just don’t think the election is going to happen.
That’s a necessary condition for bringing a suit, but not a sufficient condition. The plaintiffs also have to be able to *prove* they have “skin in the game.” That’s the big hurdle everyone is facing — and that the government is counting on as their biggest legal defense.
If someone can prove they’ve been the target of improper eavesdropping, the whole house of cards comes down.
Timing is everything, they say.
I just finished reading this by Tony Peyser:
Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty is being talked about as a possible running mate for John McCain. If you really think he’s a good choice, I have a bridge I’d like to sell you — specifically the I-35W Mississippi River bridge in Pawlenty’s state that collapsed last year.
FYI, Pawlenty picked lieutenant governor Carol Molnau to be transportation commissioner. Molnau does not have a college degree and says she does not read bridge inspection reports. She has sometimes been blamed for the collapse. If a McCain-Pawlenty ticket wants to build the proverbial bridge to the future, take surface streets.
If someone can prove they’ve been the target of improper eavesdropping, the whole house of cards comes down.
That isn’t going to happen so long as bushco gets away with their “state secret” bullshit.
Standing isn’t a bogus concept at all. However, there has to be some mechanism present that allows an individual to determine that s/he has standing. Otherwise, the government is immune to lawsuits. It truly is Catch-22. In its original form (according Jos. Heller), aircrew could not fly missions if they were crazy. Crazy aircrew could go to the doctor and request to be suspended from flight status. However, avoiding a situation of great danger is the act of a sane person, not a crazy one. Ergo, if an aircrewman went to the doctor to be taken off flight status, he must be sane. Since he is sane he must fly the mission.
This decision is no different. You can’t sue unless you can show standing. You can’t establish standing without access to the surveillance records. You can’t have access to those records because they’re secret. Therefore, you can’t sue, because either you lack standing or (if you have standing) you can’t prove that you have standing.
When is someone going to call bullshit (or is that bushit??) on this shower?
BC
Hey- If we could get JUST ONE NAME- they would have “standing”….
Now- how do we get a whistle blower to offer the name- that’s it- a REWARD—million bucks for ONE NAME.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by a subset of the Supremes..
It takes 4 votes for a case on appeal which is far and away the most common way a case gets to the S. Ct. but not the only one. I’ve summarized a little of two links I think will be helpful in explaining some of this below.
There is no requirement in the Constitution, the U.S. Code, or the Supreme Court Rules or any FRAP for the four cert. vote requirement (the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure–and each Circuit has their own modifications of the FRAPS that are made and updated and modified by the judges on that Circuit).
Article III has outlined what cases the S. Ct. has jurisdiction over. Original jurisdiciton, “certification”, extraoridnary write are 3 very rare categories. Most come on appeal from lower appellate courts, and they need 4 votes of the Justices before they can be argued. This is based on the so-called “Rule of Four” which is an informal rule developed by the S. Ct. that says 4 votes on a case that even makes it to the “cert. pool” can get it on the calendar. I have seen cases on the calendar that get removed a few weeks prior to their oral argument schedule. This happened to a friend of mine a few years ago, who helped her law professor work on the cert. petition. She had planned her trip to see her case argued, and bam–they jerked it right off the oral argument calendar.
If people know exactly the year when the Rule of 4 started, they aren’t saying. It was made public in 1924, and the actual Supreme Court rules as to what makes a case worthy to be argued are completely nebulous.
Rule of Four
U.S. Supreme Court: Writ of Certiori
I kid alot about this myself, but the election will take place, there will be the usual transition to a new administration. terrah or no terrah. It’s up to us to make it a Democratic administration.
Since the Airforce (and academy) has gone pretty hard down the Evangel road, I would suggest they do us all a favor and stick to prayer rather than asking us mere mortals to pay for these toys.
McBush could get Haley Barbour for VEEP.
btw, the second paragraph is Tony Peyser’s as well.
I didn’t select correctly.
I certainly don’t want to be accused of plagerizing.
?? is bush leaveing ??? you and I as americans may not be ,all travel will be Watched with men carrying auto-machine guns
sorry but your fear are inline .Sad, these days are closer then most think
Do click through that “interests of plaintiffs whose phones have been monitored” link above…some of them already have some proof in the SanFran case.
Lawyers know there is no such thing as law other that what judges say it is and judges know their power is limited, something like the Wizard of Oz, smoke and mirrors. You may recall the Vietnam war when the State of Massachusetts brought an action to determine the war’s legality. Couldn’t get the magic four. Of all the Supreme Court justices in that era, only Douglas consistently voted to grant cert on cases challenging the war. The others ebbed and flowed so that the largest vote to grant cert remained three. I believe the justices feared LBJ would ignore theirs order much like the present Supreme Court awards rights to Guantanamo prisoners, but doesn’t follow up because it doesn’t want to know GWB ignores them.
Hopefully Obama will be elected by a large margin and we go back to being the U S of A. I don’t sense that Hillary is all that gung ho for civil liberties.
Thanks, I’m kinda dense today, think i need more coffee.
Castro steps down- some will see an opportunity to make millions selling shit to Cubans…..I’d say the embargo’s days are numbered. Wanna buy a high rise condo in Havana?
The endorsement yesterday suggests that it will be Jeb Bush.
You guys are scaring me!
I come to the lake now for a bit of insight/fun and only on short leash as a “treat” for finishing a chunk of work. (Did I ever tell you all how much I hate nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, prepositions - and punctuation. Even worse, having it all make sense).
that was funny. i’m origially from minnesota where we eat toast on the boat and have walleye arms. most of my family is still there and i’m close in wisconsin. voting today. it will be interesting to see what’s happening.
Unless you need close air support.
Invoke the prosperity gospel, perhaps?
People here say “no way” -They are savng Jebbie’s ass for the next one. Everyone knows Mcwar will go down.
Must be people standing in line to be the importer for Cuban Cigars….in ten years there will be “Castro” branded cigars and other products showing the dictator’s likeness in red.
Trendy
Haley is high on the list and he has all kinds of ties to the party to make this happen. His lobbying firm ranks up at the top in prestige and profit, and he has found ways to channel much of this profit to his Haleyness while being governor of Mississippi. Mississippi fared better than New Orleans relatively speaking after Katrina due to Haley’s longstanding lobbying connections.
I’ll tell you one prospect that the MSM talks about who has a chance of an ice cube in hell. That’d be Sonny Raindance Purdue of Georgia. Purdue has a ton of albatrosses around his neck. While governor he did next to nothing to solve highway problems; bridge inspections were faked; his solutions to a severe water shortage have been pathetic, and he wasted millions of dollars (even though he is a vet) buying Tamiflu and stock piling it–a drug which does nothing to impact H5N1 except to increase resistant strains rapidly.
LOL, and Hi Raven!
Wait wait what about the “narrative” that this is somehow a uniquely corrupt and fascist administration? Sorta blows that doesn’t it?
They ain’t about to sacrifice Jebidiah’s ass in a losing cause- and linking the names McCain and Bush is a death knell to both.. Naw- it’ll be someone expendable.
*g* That sounds like something Bmaz might have said–very true.
I remember Justice Douglas and I remember him fondly and I miss him.
I hadn’t thought of it, but I guess it does.
Hey man, did you just plagarize my 89? *g* -First time I’ve ever used the word ass at the lake, I think. Maybe it just fits with Jebbie, or maybe we both got the term up stream. Or maybe the mods just switched the comments. Or maybe plagarism is on my mind as I reflect on the new campaign meme.
A thousand pardons for mispelling Raindance Pray for Rain Perdue’s name wrong. He won’t be the VP candidate though. Too much to attack compounded to McBush’s large treasure trove of material to go after.
I have to agree with you.
I think just about Everyone on the Planet strongly dislikes our president.
I think it would be a huge mistake to put another Bush on the ticket. I mean for them. :)
Just tryin to keep things in perspective. The trickster and LBJ are never far out of my mind.
Today marks the day when the plagiarism pandemic has swept the nation. *g*
If they lay in enough moon pies, peanuts and RC Cola in DC he might show.
At least Dick and LBJ had a conscience. LBJ was ruined by Vietnam and it showed.
Nixon had the drunken sense of mind to get while the getting is good.
Chimpy and The Gimp are act