Chuck Todd on MSNBC gave a portrait of how dire the situation is after tonight for the Clinton campaign. According to his tallies, she needs 58% of the remaining pledged delegates just to get the lead. If you concede Mississippi, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, South Dakota, North Carolina and Vermont to Obama (which is a conservative estimate), she needs 65% of the remaining pledged delegates in order to simply get ahead of him.
Obama, on the other hand, will need 65% of the remaining pledged delegates to hit the magic number of 2025 which will give him the nomination. If you add in all the committed superdelegates, he needs less than 50% of the remaining pledged delegates to hit that total.
Add to that the fact that under many plausible scenarios Obama could be 5% behind in the Texas vote total and still gain more delegates, and it looks pretty hopeless.
I appreciate her fight, but I don’t know how he doesn’t have it sewn up after tonight.
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Jane!
me? zed?
Yes. it over
Jane! I can’t see how it comes out in her favor.
Hello…and good night…
Hillary!
damnit
Jane!
Maria Teresa!
Biodun, like you said at the end of the last thread…the MSM is the wildcard. Perhaps the debates. But it would have to be a gaffe of immense proportions.
EPU’d from downstairs — Noron called the Washington primary a “beauty contest.” Huh? I’m obviously missing something… Help!
TYe interesting thing – or one of them – will be to take a step bacvk and ask “When did she blow it?” Always hard to pick one single moment. But it’s fun to try.
Hello, you must be going.
(waving cigar)
concession that McCain ain’t no beauty?
It’s a new day. The old arguements and tactics of the old politicians are not working. The old voters are outnumbered by the new. I feel in my heart that while Barack Obama will not be a perfect President, he will not solve all problems within reach of the President and not deliver on all he promisses, the United States of America and We the People will be better off, better individuals, a better community and nation after eight years of the Obama Presidency than that of any other candidate.
Zero delegates are awarded in the WA primary for the Democrats. They were all awarded when the Dems held their caucus in that state.
i’d say she blew it either when she messed up health care in the first clinton admin or when she voted for the iraq war …
BO can step on and do the merengue all over Hillary’s speeches from here on out.
Now. Who’s he going to pick as
VPrunning mate?It is my understanding that WA State has both a caucus AND a Primary. Each allocates delegates but not sure about the numbers and how that part works.
AHA! Thanks.
Jane, I was looking at a picture today of you and Christy with Big Bill’s arms around you. Time for a new snapshot!
I don’t think it’s over yet. She tends to do really well in big states (New York, California, Florida). She could win Texas and Pennsylvania by wide margins. It’s unlikely, but it’s within the realm of possibility. Furthermore, I don’t WANT her to drop out yet. The primary race is a lot of free press for the Dems, and it keeps the vote counts up in the primaries for other races. That’s a very good thing for the Democratic party, even if Hillary ultimately loses the nom.
Obi will get it. it was obvious a few weeks ago with the turn out and the exit polling.
For whatever reason he represents a break with the past, true of not (he would be as a black man) and people want to “throw the bums out” and although a lot of insiders wanted Hill the people want someone new.
And Obi will continue on in the general despite all the effort to pull him down by the bobbleheads, and the DLC types.
Soon it needs to be rally around the D candidate and work on the congress and senate seats.
We need to change LAWS and that means a progressive congress.
Long coat tails would be appreciated.
how bout his mentor, Joe Lieberman?
half and half, I heard
WA already had Democratic caucuses on Feb. 9 which actually counted for deciding delegates, which is why today’s primary (which doesn’t decide delegates) is just a “beauty contest.”
no dem delegates awarded on the dem side, they were awarded after the caucus
Now I guess my question would be: “WTF? A caucus AND a primary? WTF?” Can anyone explain this to me? If all of the delegates have already been awarded at a caucus why have an election?
BO GOT MO, BRO!
Hillary got more votes than all the Republicans combined — and Obama is beating her by a margin equal to 80% of the total vote for McCain.
…and dreaming…*g* Buy yep I’m definitely going…
Hill will end up losing Penn. The tide has shifted and dems will vote for the perceived winner now.
That’s SO 2005!
FDL is neutral and has not endorsed anyone running in the primary.
Please tell me how Lieberman was Obama’s mentor? I have heard this but don’t know the specifics.
that’s only for the repubs … demos picked all the delegates in caucus. which makes it strange that there’s also a non-binding primary …
the r’s only award a portion of their delegates via caucus, the rest via primary
What’s your point?
Unfortunately for the Democratic Party the Mark Penn/Hillary Clinton campaign will rev up the negative advertising and underhanded leaks to “political writers” like Roger Simon in their desperate quest to get what they KNOW belongs to them.
I did not have these feelings a month ago. Very sad I do now.
If the “moral majority” are not behind the McBain… the party may be toast.
Are you better off today than your were 8 yrs ago?
It is also apparent that there is a growing backlash against the GOP’s Southern Strategy and smear and fear of anyone that aint white and Christian and straight.
Bill O’Reilly clearly stated the fear of what these people see.
That is why Bush is running around Africa right now, trying to prove that he doesn’t think the way Kanye West knows he thinks.
-G
your comment appeared to suggest that FDL had endorsed HRC.
Florida?
Hill will have to come around. The negative thing is not smart. Very unladylike.
Hillary and shown a lot of fight and courage. I suspect Hillary slogs on through March 4 and if something dramtic doesn’t occur, she makes a graceful exit.
Listening to Obama tonight I was once again struck by what a gifted speaker he is. He is damn near poetic in his phrasing and tempo.
Perhaps, they might begin playing this at his rallies:
http//:www.youtube.com/watch?v=70xTVxGhHFM
I never claimed it made sense. :)
This article gives some details:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02…..wanted=all
Well, this is how it goes see … a new clown comes to the Circus and Boss Lady tells a senior clown to show the new guy the ropes, see …
This kinda typo is easily explained…the y is next to the t on the keyboard…*g*
BTW, from where did Michelle Bernard (on MSNBC) come from all of a sudden?
Reality is that Lieberman supports McCain now — not Obama.
I want Clinton to keep up the appearance of fighting on, even after she’s effectively eliminated. Because by finishing up with a positive campaign, aiming her guns primarily at Saint McCranky, she helps unite the party. (I still suffer under the illusion that this primary season hasn’t been all that bruising as these things go.) And because the longer she’s nominally in the race, the longer it will take the Wurlitzer to settle on a narrative with which to gang up against Obama. I’m on Team Barack, but Hillary is dead right that the knives will come out as soon as it’s only one of us left and one of them.
EWWWWW saying that McBush’s striking wife….. she is considered a B*tch here in AZ….. know people who have experienced her “lovely” personality call her that…
Okay, there should have been a star next to that one, but she DID win the primary.
If it was a male, would you say it was unmanly?
Not a direct answer, but…I am sure his eyes were opened when Lieberman stepped up to introduce Obama at the Connecticut Jefferson Jackson dinner, 2006(?) and was booed loudly. Six months later, Obama did a little campaigning for our Democratic nominee, Ned.
As to your question, Obama wants to work compromises across the aisle. He saw Lieberman as someone who had successfully done that.
Please stop using “mentor” as a slur. Enough. He didn’t vote like Lieberman, period.
i hope … that would be a classy move at the end. and then Clinton should be a real public servant and knuckle down in the senate to help move us forward.
that would be a good outcome to all of this.
If she goes positive and beats of McBain then she can exit with dignity and grace.
1 year ago … who knew?
Bish made the people do it.
Let’s all pause while we savor the irony of this.
Thank you, I think, for that link. Part of my brain squirted out of my ears, but I think I stuffed it all back in…
My question then is how did they get to the circus? Did the carpool?
“What do they have in Texas but Pretty Ladies and Longhorn Cattle???” MSNBC
Excuse me????
We’ll see, won’t we.
I hope Obama is ready for the savaging… it will not be pleasant. Somewhere, under a dank rock, Karl Rove is smiling and thinking, “They bought it!”
Yes I would. I use the lady term because she is a female. If you would prefer Unpersonlike… for both.
or maybe just undignified
Where did you get any hint that I had any question about what Little Joey Short Ride was going to do?
It is tasty isn’t it?
good night all.
undignified is a very gender neutral term :) thank you
I don’t have a sexist bone in my body, but unfortunately our language has gender references in it. And I like the differences between males and females. Don’t you?
pain free sleep wishes, tex
Sweet sweet irony. Has Lieberman’s Superdelegate status been discussed here? Unfortunatly, Liebercrat Nancy DiNardo was recently re-elected as CT Dem Chair without much of any struggle at all. She’s “disappointed” in him but does not seem to have learned.
You’ve gotta be kidding me. Karl’s been Photoshopping Hillary’s head onto every nudie pic he could download for the past six years. It’s going to be a nasty campaign, but there’s no way in hell the GOP is happier about Obama than Hillary.
Obama never campaigned for Ned. He traveled through the state on his book tour during the campaign and did not return the calls of the Lamont campaign staff when they asked him to help Ned out.
You still up? You must be beat!
Sleep well, Betsy.:)
Oh no … not goin’ there … *g*
Again, Florida? No one won because no one campaigned there. Time after time, when Obama seriously campaigns, he wins. Florida means nothing outside the Clinton camp.
We did that in Minnesota in 92-what a stupid waste of time and money. I caucused that year, but did not vote in the beauty contest.
The next president is going to inherit and enormous mess.
They will need the full support of the congress and the people and hopefully the media to get us out of Bushpoop.
Thanks Suzanne.
Oh, I borrowed from Burnt Orange Report: How to vote in Texas
I tell ya, the GOP had the President of the United States telling them in 2006: “If the Democrats win, the terrorists win”.
That didn’t sway them to vote GOP.
We may have to come to the realization that the only thing left of the GOP is a bitter rump of trolls, the 24% Bushists.
70% majority indeed.
-G
It’s true– when Obama was a freshman senator he chose Holy Joe as his mentor. And you can hear his influence whenever Obama talks about reaching across in a spirit of bipartisanship. He’s been soft pedaling that a little lately, but you can bet it will return in full force after he wins the nomination. (Unless Fitz can save us on Feb. 25).
Probably hit the wrong comment reply. Nothing personal to you.
betsy, see my 230 from the previous thread.
85% WI precincts
58% Obama
41% Clinton
Did Hillary?
All of us who competed in speech tournaments in high school look at Obama and think, “And so…” Imagine how we felt when we learned he’s competing for Oral Declamation and not the presidency?
FDL is getting better like an aging bottle of wine.
Good night!
STRUGGLE
Thanks for the correction. I knew it wasn’t much, but I thought there was some support in the wild crazy final days. Stinker.
Pure artistry, this.
DiNardo has said Lieberman was stripped of his superdelegate status under the Zell Miller rule about two weeks ago.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/02…..dorsement/
I was a bit baffled! No harm, no foul.
I have to admit to being really tired tonight but I don’t know what this is about on the 25th. And I haven’t been paying attention for the last two weeks or so. Burned out.
thanks, got it.
I like when Obama says, “Just won’t do”….
Let’s hear someone steal that one…
And you can hear his influence whenever Obama talks about reaching across in a spirit of bipartisanship.
Yeah, and people like you keep intimating Obama wants to reach across to the likes of Inhofe and Sessions.
Hillary Clinton is the Senator who reached across the aisle to *co-sponsor* a disgusting flag-burning amendment with a Rethug.
Bless you, dear. You don’t want to know.
She had Ned out to Chappaqua, threw a fundraiser for him and loaned him Wolfson for the campaign. It was kinda negated when Bill stabbed him on Larry King.
I think I should perma-post this on the sidebar because people must be getting tired of me repeating it.
We’ve been kinda harsh about Norah O’Donnell in the past, so I was surprised when Keith defended her in his FDL book salon interview. But she has been doing a very professional job in the last few weeks imo. Credit where credit due.
Whoops. I meant “flag burning bill”. Not amendment.
I want Ron Paul to get some media attention so we can unload the snark!
Mr. N.
I have decided to take you at your word.
You wish. Karl has always been about the feint. Frank, what might many have overlooked if KR pulled the bait and switch? Where did all the lies and innuendo about Hillary originate? It all came from suck-ups to the health care and insurance industry at the behest of KR’s supporters. Karl’s celebrating tonight.
Sorry for being obtuse. The Rezko trial starts on February 25, and Obama has been linked with Tony Rezko. I may be a little over optimistic in thinking that Fitz might actually indict Obama, but… call me an optimist!
“Beauty Contest” means that it has no meaning in terms of delegate distribution. The caucuses the week after Super Tuesday was the time that delegates were distributed in Washington. The only thing it might do is give Hillary some reason to say that Obama’s string of Primary “wins” have been broken. But Obama won the vast majority of delegates in the caucuses.
It’s sort of like Bush claiming that the US wasn’t the only one fighting in Iraq. “Don’t forget Poland!”
She can say “Don’t forget the Washington Primary.”
... probably the first and last woman to do so … *g*
((( Newt )))
It’s true, that was a black mark on Hillary’s record. She’s no angel either.
I have read a lot about Mr. Rezko and Mr. Obama. There appears to be no there there.
Agreed, she’s been much more poised of late, a lot less breathless and anxious.
I don’t know much about it, but loose head prop had a good post a week or two ago which looked hopeful.
Dude.
You called it, it would appear.
so, mcbushain can’t even get 50% of the thugs in the WA primary? amazing …
perhaps she has been weaned off the kool-aid
I didn’t believe it when I first saw it, but it’s going to get even stronger …
i don’t want to be as anti-clinton as I find myself feeling. and if she did actively support ned, that’s a good thing. the kind of appropriate, statesmanlike senior party figure action that bodes well for a long career as a respected senator …
Perhaps you should read the posts that came after that about the situation.
can anyone explain any of this circus to me?
Or hanging with the likes of KO and Rachel yields osmosis.
Then there’s Pat and Tweety…
never mind.
Maybe she was told to act more like Rachel if wanted her own show.
Nope. The Rethugs want Hillary.
Loaned him Wolfson? Given his sorry performance in this primary, she sure did him a lot of favors. To repeat what I said yesterday, this guy is Rove all over again.
Don’t take the disagreement personally. I have enjoyed FDL for a long time and just waded into the crowd yesterday. But, I am very disturbed with how the Democratic Party has performed over the last decade and do believe that (pardon the cliche) that Obama does represent something of the future while Clinton and certainly the repugs feet are firmly cemented in the past.
Looks to be. Big Mo now.
Yep, anyone who thinks Barack is in this race with Skeletons in his closet, is sorely mistaken.
“Democracy doesn’t comes from the top. It comes from the bottom.” – Howard Zinn, The People Speak.
“Because there is a moment in the life of every generation, if it is to make its mark on history, when its spirit has to come through, when it must choose the future over the past, when it must make its own change from the bottom up.” – Barack Obama, Feb. 9, 2008.
No. That was a lousy FDL article. No offense to FDL.
I had an interesting experience at the end of the day. I was about to leave work when a colleague, a junior subordinate who is a very big Ron Paul supporter, and I were discussing the campaign. Both of us were raging about what a fascist McCain is, and the rest of the office were agreeing, when a young Chicano colleague walks in the door and says, “Are you talking about McCain?” Someone says, “How’d you know?” He says, “He’s an old white guy.”
Everybody (me too) says “Yeah!” At which, point I stand up, look around, realizing I’m in a room with all young guys, two of whom are Chicano, two of whom are Asian, and two of whom are white. They respect me as the most radical mofo in the room, but I still had to protest. At which point I got a cheer as I walked out the door.
I read one of those posts, and as I said, IANAL. But LooseHeadProp is, and I thought her post looked pretty authoritative. Anyway, we’ll soon see.
Disagree, but it may not matter.
The Chicago way, remember.
Anyone know when the polls close in Hawai’i?
Welcome, we’re happy to have you here. Didn’t mean it personally, but the myth that Obama campaigned for Lamont and Hillary endorsed Lieberman is pervasive. And untrue. Though I think most would agree Bill did way more damage actively than Obama did passively.
I have a lot of confidence in LooseHeadProp, and in Fitz.
Go Obama! The Bush-Clinton Dynasty is dead! The DLC is reeling.
Let tomorrow be a new day, the status quo is deader than a doornail.
There will come a time where Clinton will no longer be able to reach the 2025 magic number even with all of the superdelegates. I think that should be Obama’s next goal: to slowly but inexorably deny her 1225 pledged delegates. Yes we can.
12:30 am Pacific, I believe.
it’s caucuses, no? so, probably in the evening? ending at 8 or 9pm hawaii time? we got hawaii firepups, but they’re presumably at the caucuses…
Re: WA state primary (if this is a repeat)
the Dems award exactly ZERO delegates based on the primary. The caucuses two weeks ago were the only way any of the Dem Prez Candies earned delegates. And as with Nevada (?) the whole process will work its way up through the district and county levels before the final, official delegate count is determined.
The ‘puglitards, btw, won a lawsuit a few years back to close their primary to anyone but registered ‘pugs. And even they only award ~1/2 the available delegates based on the primary.
FunnyDiva
the Hawaii caucus starts at 7pm HI time which is three hours earlier from MST.
which is two hours earlier than FDL time (Pacific)
I seriously doubt she can win by a wide margin in Texas…at least enough to pick up the delegates she needs. The delegates in Texas are allocated not by current registration but by how many Democrats voted in each State Senatorial district in the last National Election. Apparently in that one few members of the Hispanic community turned out, leaving areas disproprtionately urban to make up most of the Democratic voters. Houston, Austin, Port Arthur-Beaumont, and Dallas-Ft. Worth will thus have higher delegates proportionately than El Paso and San Antonio or the Rio Grande Valley.
If that were not bad enough, Clinton has generally used a pre-established political machine in many States to build her own campaign off of. That doesn’t exist in Texas, and Obama has been using College students and urban organizers there for almost a year to develop a grass-roots movement.
Lastly, in order to get delegates above an even amount the candidates have to get more than 67.5% in most particular district or caucus. Most even districts will split their delegations evenly as a result. But a few districts have odd delegation distribution. In these Hillary has to limit Obama to under 38.5% in a district to win an additional delegate (i.e. 3 to 2 in a five delegate district). Even that seems quite difficult. In fact, it may actually be Obama winning those districts.
IMHO, she blew it for the final and fatal time when she and her advisors decided to go hard rather than soft in Wisconsin. She won when she went soft and lost when she went hard. It’s not that one is better than the other. It’s that one plays well from her better than the other. IMHO, she is yet another victim of the unforgiveably inept Democratic campaign advisors. But, God bless ‘em, they write the best concession speeches in the business.
Hi Jane, Thanks for your input on this. I actually had not heard you before on this aspect of the Lamont campaign.
Lamont’s campaign went downhill after his meeting with Hillary, and the “sub-prime loan” of Howard Wolfson.
Now Barbara Boxer…she REALLY campaigned for Traitor Joe. (CTBob rocks!)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1kDKl3oRU0g
Is it okay for me to still like her? BTW, Obama was assigned Traitor Joe as his mentor. It’s an old tradition in the Senate. Obama for years has said many more positive things about Russ Feingold and Dick Durbin, and has even campaigned for people like them a lot. Obama gave $5,000 to Lamont after he won the primary, the same as Hillary. Lamont endorsed Obama over Clinton. Paul Wellstone said positive things about Lieberman. He was still a great Senator.
What’s the point of this continual Lieberman-Obama innuendo?
*stretch*
*yawn*
welp, now that it is quiet, I’ll go finish my nap :)
I would like to dedicate this song to the new generation of yes we can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
I believe they have a 30-minute caucus: 7-7:30 p.m. Hawaii time.
Going on now (I think).
Question:
Does any one think that comment by Michelle Obama today about the first time being proud of our country a big deal?
As someone who has lived in Europe and felt what our policies and actions do around the world, I truly understood what she meant. Like to hear from everyone else. Old Pat Buchanan things its a BIG deal.
Funny how this finally brought a comment from the trophy wife of McBush
I think it’s all this “reach across the aisle” talk, if I’m not mistaken.
1 am est i think.
*waving g’nite to the leaving sleepy firepups and firecats*
plagiarism, huh?
it fakes a village.
count me among ‘em … nite all!
whenever i hear ‘reach across the aisle’, i always think of a reach around. one done badly.
It takes a pillage.
If Cindy wants to take on Michelle, good luck to her … the comment was taken out of context but what else is new with the MSM …
Oh Lord, don’t get him started … *g*
Yeah. Is that before or after they swap spit?
I think it takes a gutsy broad to laugh like Norah does on the teevee.
guess it depends on who is doing the reaching and who is doing the swallowing, newton
but i like mayonaise’s funnies.
Has it struck anyone else that the same people who complain about politicians being in Washington too long are the same ones saying Obama doesn’t have enough experience?
Correct. That’s why I was at a caucus this year. The primary is really not important this year.
It will be a LOT harder to raise money for Hillary tomorrow.
What’s the point of this continual Lieberman-Obama innuendo?
It’s a smear, pure and simple. If there was anything to it, they’d show us how he *voted* with Lieberman.
The rules of the Senate are not trivial. Mentoring is about learning how to be a United States Senator, not “how to vote like my mentor”.
It’s a cheap slur, and I’m sick of it.
Uhm, Obama has.
Traffic Overwhelms Hawai’i Democratic Website
LOL !
Excellent catch, RonD !
sweet, thanks eg
nahh, I’ll go easy on you
tonight, watching Obama’s speech, the crowds, his admission of imperfection, the details of the dream,
the pledge to restore the constitution, a legal scholar who understands and respects the constitution, a scholar who will obey the constitution…the thousands cheering in recognition of that….and the knowledge that we might, .just might be able to reclaim, restore our country and reassert what is great about a country governed by the people, for the people…
well my God, every media savvy nerve in my body told me he won the general election in his 45 minute speech to the nation this victorious evening.
haven’t you ever had a ‘tabloid moment’? …like viewing some symbolic glyph imbued and infused with a massive,collective agreement, concious or otherwise, that spoke to you of a future reality? A tiny peek into the future ?
tonight my inner self heard America agreeing, Barak Obama is the President of the United States.
I saw and heard him claim it!
this isn’t a psychic moment…it’s a recognition moment. Tonight, Obama won the hearts and minds of millions more than we know.
There is still massive work to be done..but tonight I witnessed the heavens and the earth agree…Obama is President. As Oprah queried: Are you the One?
Tonight I heard it. YES.
God love us one and all, and Thank the great powers that have brought us a great leader when we were parched and most in need of the nectar this man brings to revitalize the citizenry of the United States.
i’m tired of the cheap slurs – from all sides.
He requested Holy Joe as his mentor. And the point of it is that he wins in states with open primaries because independents and Pukes tend to like him. Because he talks about bipartisanship, he talks about Reagan’s ability to reach across the aisle, he talks about his faith a lot and he appears with gay haters like Donnie McClurkin.
He’s being careful about this stuff for the primaries, but it will come back with a vengence in the general election. Be careful what you wish for.
Drat … I popped Popcorn in anticipation … *g*
No.
Off to brush my teeth…
Oh man, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying for years! Big reason I got behind Obama.
I had read somewhere that the HI Democratic party was really worried about dealing with a high turnout. They only had around 5,000 show up in 2004 and they were changing locations to accommodate large numbers….
oh… maybe from my DFA email group
1) No
2) Pat is talking for his 30%ers who do think its a big deal. Michelle is kind of young she said that she hasn’t been proud of America during her adult life, Bush has been President for 7 yrs? now or much of Michelle’s adult life. To be honest I am not proud of anything that America has done during the Bush Presidency either.
3) McCain’s trophy wife however is not that young she can remember all the way back to when the economy improved under Reagen. But old age (don’t be fooled by the blow fish poison and plastic surgery) seems to have robbed her memory of the Bill years when the economy and market were better than under Reagen.
4) When will MoDo comment about the trophy wife’s work done under the knife? We need pictures of her when she was young to compare to her today.
ROFL
hahahahaha
Yech! And, which side of the fucking aisle do they think they are on? IMHO, Barack and Hillary (and even John) are across the aisle from me. If either of them wants to “reach across the aisle, let them pick Russ, Chris, or Dennis as VP. IMHO, that would be “reaching across the aisle.” WTF?
Ah, thank you MM.
Tonight, Obama won the hearts and minds of millions more than we know.
I’d like to believe that, but I think very few people are paying attention. Millions and millions of people will only get their information from the Presidential debates and TV ads. Mostly the ads.
You’re so beautiful, like a tree ; )
I like that newtonusr guy.
Reisz? Just what does being a “mentor” MEAN? I thought it simply represented the person who showed you around the Senate, introduced you to the arcane Paliamentary rules, and introduced you to fellow members.
Did Lieberman and Obama co-author legislation? Did Lieberman sway Obama to vote with the Blue Dogs against the “progressive” wing of the party? Did Obama join up with Lieberman’s Senate New Democratic Coalition, the group that consistently blocked progressive legislation by jumping the aisle and voting with the Republicans? No, it was another Democratic candidate for President that did that. Most here will be surprised to find out who that was.
Obama actually was ranked (and this will be the Republican meme over the next six months) as one of the most liberal members of the Senate. His votes were even to the left of Hillary Clinton, and tied with Russ Fiengold.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
Thanks that is exactly what I thought…. btw we need some digging on trophy wife McBush because I have heard she has a worse temper than old McBush….
worse than babs or (shrudder) nancy?
I’m very sorry you feel that way.
However, we use whatever criteria we find relevant to decide on our candidates, and yours are not mine.
His mentor, his example counts in my book, and you are free to ignore it in favor of your own criteria.
No slur intended.
You were in the back of my mind.
I thought you were brushing your teeth?
didn’t seem like he was gone long enough to floss either.
Cindy and Laura…separated at birth?
hmmmm maybe she was inducted into the Repub B*tch Club and we just didn’t know because she is really good standing there smiling like a Stepford wife…
Up in Vancouver this week for business and missing a lot but just got this via email – if I see Sen. Clinton’s speech up, I’ll pass that along as well though they seem to take longer to make them available:
Pat Buchanan and Peggy Noonan can both “remember” the days when Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II personally tore down the Berlin wall.
I know what Michelle Obama was trying to say, but I don’t think she said it well. First of all, I have hope for our country, but I can’t say I’m proud of it yet. Second, because of her comment, we’re going to have to spend the next week listening to a bunch of gasbags on Faux News screeching, “I guess Michelle Obama must have forgotten that time that Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II personally tore down the Berlin wall.”
I like the idea that Hillary could be a “lightning rod”. But it will take discipline within her campaign to actually allocate money to attacking the Republican candidate rather than Obama. They sort of did that in a couple of debates, but since then there have been these periodic outbreaks of pestilential fever about who the real (political) enemy is in this country.
I’m wishing for Donna Edwards and many more Blue America candidates in Congress. I’m wishing for an entirely new media landscape informing the majority of the electorate. These wishes are why I’ve given money to Blue America candidates and FDL, CTBob, and Spazeboy, etc.
I’ve never given a penny to a Presidential candidate. I think Obama is perhaps the Prez candidate I’ve had in my voting lifetime, so I’ll vote for him. It’s also likely that his campaign will help Blue America candidates tremendously. Obama’s by far the best choice now IMO, so I’ll defend him when he’s being criticized unfairly, especially in comparison to Clinton.
Agreed but for now we need to jump on the MSM and Pat on MSNBC for attacking Michelle that guy always talks about race in a poisonous way. I was unaware the Klan was a beneficiary of quota hires?
Oh my.
What hath I wrought?
they both seem to have that R evil eye thing down pat
Cindy.
I’ve read several articles saying Traitor Joe was assigned to Obama.
Is America really ready for a black leader? The question remains. Is Barack the answer to our prayers? I do not know, But I think Barack Obama represents all that we have accomplished in over 50 years of working towards becoming a sensitive nation and a fair nation. One book — ‘Obama: From Promise to Power’ did tell it: http://dealstudio.com/searchde…..038;ru=279 , a Black President? Maybe his ambition will make him big chance…..
don’t get carried away.
EEEEEK!
think the shares of Colgate just went up.
The hand wroughting is on the wall.
marymccurnin,
Hehe
I case you missed it ; )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmDTSQtK20c
I watched McCain and Hillary (so long as I could stand) take their shots at Obama. I missed Obama’s replies.
IMHO, did the best he could do under the cirsumstances, and I suspect Obama killed him later but missed it.
IMHO, Hillary was something of a deer in the headlights. She was nowhere near as effective as was McCain, who was pretty good but not in any way decicive. (I had to shut Hillary off out of embarrassment and pity. God bless her, she was a contender.)
The references to Leiberman in this primary, are as relevant and impactful as Britney Spears or OJ as perspective running mates.
But like Clinton, who is having a bitter argument this minute about whether to go more negative or what the hell else she can figure out to do with numbers she can’t come close to to remain viable, some people are grasping at tangential straws. Leiberman has been irrelevant as a Democrat for a couple years now.
He’s irrelevant to the Democratic primary and the general except as a target.
Guess I won’t be able to show my face at Suz’s :)
And it’s Crest, Twain.
No slur intended.
Of course it’s a slur! You wave it around like some boogey monster as if it’s supposed to have some dire interpretation. And we can’t defend against it because you use it in this vague undefined way. Classic Rovian disgusting slur. How about pointing out some actual votes? Actual evidence?
no need to get rambunctious, its just business
ugly stuff out there about mrs. mc.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..index.html
don’t like to be negative, but how does her past drug abuse play out in the election process?
will MSM ignore or whitewash?
Good Lord! Until now, I think the media have always tried to print the absolute best photos of John McCain they can find, but check out the photo at http://www.latimes.com/ right now.
dood, i’m gonna call ya the entertainment (laughing)
What is it about reality challenged, truth impaired people all getting jobs as Conservative MSM talking heads. Ugly white men, Anorexic thin White women, and some very strange African American men all seem to get jobs.
Is there not an honest Conservative in the movement?
Never mind a polite or funny one.
Whoa! 17% differential…boy was I wrong! I thought it would be a nailbiter. It was a rout in a State well-suited for Clinton. This doesn’t portend well for her in Pennsylvania and Ohio…particularly when one looks at the urban and Union house-hold results. Wonder how things went up in Green Bay and the other industrial centers? More African-Americans in PA and OH, as well. Yikes!
hah hah hah
Sir, I believe you have mistaken me for someone else.
Man. Hillary has more votes in Wisconsin than the entire Republican turnout.
I love these guys.
This has been a close contest that has traveled many states and brought out an amazing number of people. The turnout for Dems is just astounding.
Wisconsin is the tipping point. Obama has the momentum and the traction. Even if Hillary wins in TX & OH the margins will be too small to matter. The tide has turned and it will take Obama to the nomination.
In time the Demcratic party will unite in a historical and super-energized general election campaign. With the tsunami approaching we will see many more Repubs call it quits.
For the first time in a generation we will see a wave of popular support providing a majority vote and the Dems firmly in control. It’s even possible for a 60 seat majority in the Senate or enough Repubs shell shocked by the Nov results to support a mandate to get some serious things done after 8 years of unmitigated disaster.
Its a season to be hopeful! And finally fun to be on the winning team.
That’s what I’m saying – don’t get carried away, it is just business. Glad we are soul mates.
Ron is rightly upset – I’ve seen that bandied about myself. I was, however, not one of them.
sorry if i was misunderstood – i was just riffing on what you said :)
when you read this…. you understand how McBush can manipulate the media… He has been a media whore for more than a decade. He was their go to guy to get on the talking head shows…. Was it a holiday…. McBush will do it… Is it 118 degrees in Phoenix….. McBush will go out to the affiliate station and do the show.
This is the thing that we need to understand, how he had gotten the MSM in the palm of his hand. The good thing is that he has NO Clue how the toobz work…
Why one would be called an optimist when one would want a scandal to befall a critical, progressive member of the Democratic Senate is beyond me? That might be something that a Republican optimist might be dreaming. But a Democrat?
I don’t follow the math. By my calculation Obama needs 66% of the remaining 1047 unassigned pledged delegates even when you include his commited superdelegates.
Chill.
Is she still on drugs? Hardcore users tend to be b*tchy jerks etc. The ex users tend to be fanatics against drug use and or well happier.
Sometimes they substitute a drug for an other activity like exercise ie Bush.
nytimes
marymccurnin,
One more then! ; ) lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU
Obama in 2008
Now I am thoroughly confused.
Wise words indeed. Better and Better Democrats ‘08!
we are in total understanding.
*blowing whistle*
folks are getting a little heated in their responses. lets all take a deep breath, stop calling other commenters names – which ya’ll know is not permitted here – and get back to disagreeing about the message.
not attacking the messenger.
Its a season to be hopeful! And finally fun to be on the winning team.
I think you’d better lower your expectations. The future I see ahead is that the Republicans will wake up their press in about three months (after the primaries are safely over), and start sliming Obama with all the oppo that’s already been dredged up plus what they’ll find now that they’re really motivated.
Obama, finally facing an opponent who won’t be running into bad luck just before election time, will lose by a similar margin to what Kerry lost by.
Even if I’m wrong, and Obama manages to win somehow, we’re now reduced to choosing between a con artist and a crazy man.
To me, that’s not a very optimistic future.
YES Sir General Sir
yeah, rerun of Colbert tonite ran a bunch of clips of Jon Stewart introducing McCain on his show. I didn’t realize how many times he’d been on.
guess he’s been planning this run for a long time…
http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2…..quest.html
OMG! I love that one, too!!
no matter who the D nominee is, the R’s are gonna do this. it is not something that will only happen to obama.
Hi Katy. I’ve got to agree. McCain is a much more dangerous opponent that most progressives realize. I watched his speech tonight, shooting at Barack. It was ten times better crafted that Hillary’s speech, shooting at Barack. But Barack is moving up to a new league. That’s not to say he’s in any way out of his league; IMHO, he knows what he’s doing. But this is a league where impetuous mistakes like Michelle made can be very costly.
Actually the comments took her post factually apart, and I believe a subsequent post by another FDL poster demonstrated that there was very little substance to the charges. Seemed to be wishful thinking on that part as well. I recall LHP attended a small function in NY (the Eleanor Roosevelt Tea) in which Hillary suddenly showed up and made statements about recanting her War vote publically “soon” and withdrawing all troops from Iraq immediately.
None of that ever happened, either.
okie dokie. will do.
yep, they’re really fun. hiya mm!
Report from Maui – Kihei to be exact – last caucus was around 50 people today over 1000
Greenperson!
Wonderful!!! How did the numbers look for the candidates?
headed off to bed and talk to Elmore….. thanks for a stimulating evening… . Remember… NO candidate is 100% squeaky clean but what we have is light years better than what is on the Repub side….. and being from Arizona… I know first hand…
Really? Wow, I thought you’d be all over this:
I pretty much thought Lanny fucked up myself.
Night, katymine.
Nite Katymine. and you are so right.
g’nite katymine
Dood: IMHO, it’s bad, but perhaps not that bad, in that McCain would be so much worse, and appears to have at least as much vulnerability as Obama.
What’s discouraging is how much better crafted McCain’s attack on Obama was tonight compared to Hillary’s. What the fuck is wrong with Democratic campaign strategists?? The only good thing I can say for them is the quality of their concession speeches.
CNN election website says last Hawai’i polling places close at 1am ET, so like 5 minutes from now.
I’m thinking there’s little need to be so afraid of the BigMedia attacks anymore. Isn’t it obvious the shit’s not working anymore. The more Team Clinton tries to use the old tricks, the more Hillary starts tanking.
So, the argument that it’s gonna get much more nasty for Obama, and that in turn in going to give the election to Johnvez McSharraf, makes no sense to me.
People have got stop living in fear of the Noize Machine. Lush Limpballz and friends tried like hell to get Mittmo as their nominee, and Mittens went down in flames. Their bullshit isn’t even working on their base anymore!
It’s a whole new era in America, brothers and sisters.
I love it!
Pretty much fucked up? He ripped the mask off the Clinton campaign.
I predict Dewey defeats Truman.
/s
The knives will come out. Thank goodness HRC’s people have generously arranged for a dress rehearsal of sorts. Sure, the knives were blunter–plagiarizer! speech giver!! present voter!!–but the sentiment was not much different. I am told that the Rezo accusations(sp? it’s late) came straight from the OB’s rival for the senate seat, from that campaign and from the same opposition researcher, now working for HC.
Lanny Davis has always struck me as someone we would all be better off without. Much like James Carville since ‘96 or so.
Well it is a big deal when you realize that MSNBC played a tape that excised out both her term “really” (it was actually very obvious becuase there was a click and her mouth did this “Clutch Cargo” thing) and her statement that followed that said “not simply for Obama doing so well, but because of the people standing up for change in this country.”
So MSNBC fraudulently used a doctored up tape of speech to spin that she was unpatriotic. And Pat Buchanan, the man who helped fashion Nixon’s racist Southern Strategy, is at it once again…trying to make this appear authentic. That’s the story!
thanks for the link eg
James Carville has always given me the major willies.
That’s bold. Perhaps Mark Penn would like to hire you?
what does this mean?
He sure did! Willie Jefferson Clinton was quite major.
bonkers, I *did* put an “end snark” tag there ;-)
con artist? that popped me out of my daze. who is this con artist you speak of?
I gave to Donna Edwards too. And I think that’s the way we can make a difference.
I hope you’re right about Obama and I’m wrong– and if I am I will be happy to admit it.
Lanny Davis. That’s one more person I wish we could just never hear from again. Bill Bennett, Dick Morris, there’s a bunch of them.
Who is he working for, anyway?
Please do not impugn Mr. Fitzgerald, who enjoys a good reputation at the lake by believing he would bring false changes against a democrat. That was another USA, and he’s gone, not yet upriver, but pending.
More seriously, the charges of financial fraud against Rezko have as much to do with Obama as they have to do with any of the many candidates he supported, which is nothing.
New Thread.
Their ability to lie so convincingly is truly astounding, and quite scary.
Does any one think that comment by Michelle Obama today about the first time being proud of our country a big deal?
I don’t know if it’s a “big deal” or not, but I can’t remember WHEN I’ve last been proud of the U.S.A. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. And the last eight years? Dear God in heaven.
For me, Michelle Obama was telling the truth, speaking for many more than just herself, and ought to be congratulated for her courage and honesty.
No, that should be in response to katymine@145. Danged icons…
I finally caught the O’Tweetie segment with Stephanie Tubbs Jones, a Texas state Senator named Watson, including O’Tweetie’s invoking Hardball. There’s nothing “hardball” about so many ciphers on a show at one time.
Tubbs Jones–blank brain knew nothing about legislation in the Senate
State Senator Watson–a combo of stage fright possibly–knew nothing about legislation in the US Senate
O’Tweety Mathews–knew nothing about legislation in the US Senate
Nothin’/Notin’ = notin’
What someone should have asked Tubbs Jones was as bad as the state Senator and Mathews was–can you summarize legislative accomplishments of either Obama or Clinton after you get through with the empty trite phrase of “solutions to problems” proving you read the emails the last 10 days from Maggie Williams, Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, and Terry McAuliff.
The answer would have been “duh hell no. I’m just here to memorize problems/solutions. No one told me I was supposed to have an IQ 1/10 the thermometer or be able to think on my feet or no what the hell the Senate does. I’m doing good to find my way to my office at the House.”
It would have been easy to slam Tubb Jones over the fact that Obama engineered ethics legislation that Clinton along with her role model Louisana Hooker Vitter voted to derail as to the revelation of earmarks component. Mathews should have known about it, but that’s asking a little much of Tweetie.
Somehow no one brought up the Iraq authorization, Kyle/Leiberman, or Clinton’s failure to understand the Levin amendment she voted against after Levin tore her explanation of his bill apart and said she couldn’t read it.
Clinton’s vote to sabotage Obama’s Earmark Ethics Component
This quote could have been thrown at Tubbs-Jones but not on Tweety’s watch. You’d have needed the intelligence of Jon Stewart and Tweety doesn’t come close:
Read the post at the top of the page.
Okay, so what this means is that he would have a very difficult task winning just on the basis of upcoming pledged delegates. But he has some committed Superdelegates already. Take those and he only needs to win half of the remaining delegates available in the remaining Primaries and Caucuses. Hillary has to win 66% of those.
And that doesn’t even count the remaining uncommitted Superdelegates. As those shift to Obama his numbers from that 50% drop. Let’s say he wins only a third of the Superdelegates. That might bring the number of pledged delegates down to 35-40% that he needs to win. That’s why Hillary has to win such high numbers in the remaining Primaries. The window for sucess is increasingly narrowing, especially after a blowout in Wisconsin.
And it’s improbable that she’ll get the numbers she needs in Texas which means she has to marginalize Obama to miniscule levels in Ohio and Pennsylvania. The math doesn’t work.
But her supporters will start demanding Florida and Michigan be seated. But they won’t be because Obama will have the vast majority of delegates at that time. So a deal to seat them will be made by diminishing their delegate counts or having them conform to the wishes of the majority.
That’s one ship that ain’t gonna sail for Clinton who is upset because Bush hasn’t followed many rules, but fine with breaking them when it’s convenient for her.
Lanny Davis…yet another incriminating reason to see Hillary remain the fine senator who serves the needs of the great state of New York.
RIP: Hillary 08, and those lobbyists posing as ad agencies and p.r. firms who headed up her campaign -The Glover Park Group (Howard Wolfson) Burson Marsteller(Mark Penn) et.al.
This is what I was told by family who caucused today on Maui – Kihei, Maui is more upscale, economically, compared to other areas of Maui. Crowd was about 80% white, large population of GLBT. As I said, HUGE turnout in a normally apathetic district. Canidates proponents each gave a 3 min speech to the crowd – Clinton supporter went first, Obama second. response to Obama was slightly more pronounced, but Clinton had strong support as well. That was a disappointment to my Obama-lovin’ 75 year old mom. Actual voting is by balloting, placed in an envelope, so unable to judge the outcome.
Clinton seemed to have strong support from the GLBT community on Maui, and the upper middle class who live in this area of Maui. Obama may not do as well in Hawaii as presumed….
What was Micelle’s mistake…as a hospital administrator she would have to walk a tight line for the Doctors and board?
Happy wind mills to you green warrior and throw in a lot of solar too.
Ron,
I take your point.
Obama is contagious.The millions who see him tell others In fact they insist that others check him out, Expose themselves to him. That is the not so secret story of Obama’s rise. I’ve heard a handful of politicians,including Caroline Kennedy , proclaim that their CHILDREN insisted. This is “almost” the flower child moment, except this time, there is potical organization to it.
In the 60’s there was a brief appearance of a love movement, children with flowers who laid them in the path of tanks and national guard, and passersby. ..and poof ..it was over.
most of the kids in the zeitgeist were flower children at least for a weekend. It was a grace note, a souffle on top of the more powerful social movements of that time. A little child shall lead them.
The boomer progeny are leading their parents to Barack.
Look, i’ve got all my fingers crossed. I know what this sounds like…but, I’m a believer. Barack is a believer and he’s leading a nation of those of us ready and willing and yes, desperate to believe that this great advance in civilzation, The AMerican Dream, is still alive and well in our hearts, and our actions.
As Barack always says at the end of his speeches: I love you..(name the city or state)
He doesn’t say ‘God Bless you.” Barack Obama says: I love you.
Hillary’s problem is that she has no where to run. She can’t run to the left of Obama after voting for Iraq and Iran. She’s tried to run in the middle, but that makes her sound an awful lot like McCain. Triangulation doesn’t work without an arch conservative to define the opposite corner. Hillary has ended up looking too much like the Republican establishment.
Tonight she tried desperately to translate experience into something tangible and ended up saying “we live in a dangerous world”, which sounded exactly like Rudy’s “wolf at the door” one note. The various dirty tricks and gotcha tactics might work in a general election, but in a primary they are considered selfish and damaging to party unity, so they don’t work.
I’m one of those whispering Republicans Obama jokes about. I support him because our only hope is pulling together, regardless of policy positions. In my lifetime I’ve seen Democrats on top and I’ve seen Republicans on top, but neither delivered, always blaming the others for standing in the way. If we can’t get past that, we’re screwed in the 21st century.
We need to come together behind a leader with vision. McCain may seem attractive to some because he looks moderate (triangulation doesn’t just work for Clintons), but he has no vision. Already we seem him grasping at straws like the Bush tax cuts to try to validate himself. I believe Obama has the vision we need and can bring people together to make it a reality.
Excellent insight. Welcome to the light. ;)
Excerpt from Boston.com; Oct. 26, 2006(one of many news stories covering Obama’s support of Lamont during the regular election):
HARTFORD, Conn. –Ned Lamont got a boost Thursday from one of the Democratic party’s brightest rising stars, Sen. Barack Obama.
The Illinois senator and potential 2008 presidential candidate sent an e-mail message to his Connecticut supporters urging them to rally behind Lamont’s challenge to three-term Sen. Joe Lieberman.
“Ned Lamont has waged an impressive grass roots campaign to give the people of Connecticut a choice in the November Senate election,” Obama wrote. “Please join me in supporting Ned Lamont with your hard work on-the-ground in these closing weeks of the campaign.”
The Lamont camp said Obama’s e-mail went to about 5,000 Connecticut residents.
Obama has also given $5,000 to Lamont’s campaign through a political committee.
“Ned Lamont and I share a commitment to bringing our troops home safely from Iraq, to achieving energy independence, to helping all our citizens realize the American dream, and to empowering the American people to reclaim their government,” Obama wrote.
Maybe she didn’t blow it. Maybe he was just better.
The fact that you’ve gotten to the point that you want to see a fellow Democrat indicted when you have no reason to believe he’s done anything that rises to the level of a crime is really sad. It shows how corrosive partisanship can be. I doubt you would want to see a business competitor of yours indicted unless you knew they had really done something wrong.
Clinton is the obvious choice. Richardson would be hard to beat.