
In the backing-and-forthing between the Clinton and Obama factions, various epithets and accusations have been hurled. The Obamaites accuse Hillary Clinton of being a phenomenonally unpopular person who will be an easy takedown for John McCain in the fall; the Clintonites, in turn, say that Barack has yet to be attacked as viciously as Hillary has been over the past two decades, and that he’ll fold like a cheap lawn chair when the GOP turns its full arsenal on him.
It turns out that both accusations have a grain of truth in them, but there’s a lot of less-than-true stuff in them as well.
Let’s look at Senator Clinton first. Their initial votes on the war aside, the records of the two Senators are fairly similar in many ways, and both of their records are infinitely better than that of John McCain.
It is true that Senator Clinton has consistently performed worse than Senator Obama in head-to-head matchups against various Republicans, especially Senator McCain, over the past few months, including in the latest Time poll. A recent CNN poll also found that not only does Obama have the overall advantage over McCain, men are more likely to vote for Obama than they are for Clinton.
It is also true that of the four candidates still standing — herself, Obama, McCain and Huckabee — she has the highest negative ratings. In fact, a Gallup poll done in May of last year had her negative ratings numbers three points higher than her positive ratings numbers — and explained that the negative numbers had gone upwards over the course of her campaign. A later Gallup poll in August showed that her negative rating was still two points higher than her positive rating. However, Rasmussen polling in October had her negatives receding and her positives growing. Besides, her husband Bill had a 49 percent negative rating in an August 1995 Pew poll and went on to pound Bob Dole into the dirt the next year. (To be sure, it helped that Dole’s campaign was seriously underfunded compared to President Clinton’s; the Republicans vowed never to let that happen again — which is why George W. Bush steamrollered his primary opposition by raking in over $37 million by July of 1999, nearly a year and a half before the general election and over a year before the nominating convention in September of 2000. This was an unheard-of amount at the time; he wound up spending $193 million in the 2000 elections.)
The Clinton fans pooh-pooh the polls, and point out that Obama has had a relatively easy ride from the press so far — but if he wins the nomination, the easy ride will come to an abrupt and vicious end. The Republicans and their media allies will find a way to apply "The Clinton Rules" to any Democrat and slime even the cleanest persons. Al Gore is the perfect case in point.
As David Brock points out, before Gore was tapped to be Bill Clinton’s running mate he had a squeaky-clean "Boy Scout" image. Gore’s straight-arrow reputation was used in fact to counter the growing Arkansas-Project-fueled perception of sleaze surrounding Bill Clinton, including the "bimbo eruptions" that had already started happening. But then the media went to work against Al Gore, calling him a liar when he wasn’t, attacking him constantly, in a years-long campaign that Bob Somerby dubbed "the War on Gore".
But the media and political landscape that existed in 1992 doesn’t exist now. This blog you’re reading is proof of that.
During most of the 1990s, the Clintons had a tough time fighting back because there literally were no US mass media orgs — aside from the then-Cowles-owned StarTribune, whose publisher didn’t cower in fear every time a Republican raised his or her voice, and who had Tom Hamburger doing stellar work on the political beat – that were willing to debunk the crap being spewed by the Arkansas Project and its willing media servants like Jeff Gerth and Michael Isikoff.
Then the left-liberal presence on the Web finally came of age with Salon, just in time for the Blue Dress phase of CoupGate (aka The Hunting of the President), and which may have helped save Bill Clinton’s presidency. The blogs followed a few years later, and their impact started to be felt soon; Atrios made his blogger bones by pointing out, as Krugman would note, the hypocrisy of the news media going into Faux Ballistic Outrage Mode over Rick Kahn’s speech at the Wellstone event at Williams Arena, and their initial days-long silence over Trent Lott, a little over a month later, telling America during a eulogy for Strom Thurmond that we’d all be better off if Mister Segregationist had beat Truman in ‘48. This media silence ended only when lefty bloggers like Atrios made a point of hammering away at this story until Big Media finally took belated notice. As Atrios said at the time, he didn’t expect to succeed as Lott had a history of making blatant appeals to bigotry that never cost him politically because the mainstream press didn’t make a big noise. Not this time.
Now, there’s an active and vibrant lefty web presence, both in blogs and in general websites, even though the left doesn’t get the subsidies and "wingnut welfare" that the righties do. Furthermore, neither Obama nor Clinton will be like Kerry in 2004 and let themselves be slandered. (Though to be fair to Kerry, he’d been advised to keep his mouth shut on the liars attacking him; he apparently wanted to go after them hammer and tongs.) Obama has in fact emulated the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign’s "rapid response" program to counter various attacks on him.
Neither candidate is a shrinking violet; even before entering the White House as First Lady, Hillary Clinton went through the muck of Arkansas politics as a frequent target of her governor husband’s enemies. (Arkansas politics is so nasty that the Clintons had initially been relieved to trade the Governor’s Mansion for the White House, thinking that they’d already seen the worst it was possible to throw at them. Little did they know.) And of course, Barack Obama spent two decades in Chicago-area politics, which isn’t exactly beanbag either. I don’t think either candidate is going to be doing much in the way of pearl-clutching over the next few months.
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yo
Zed!
We are supporting Obama. But will support the nominee of our party. Regardless.
All around the blogosphere!
pearl-clutching
hmmmm
Good evening, everyone!
Sorry for the disjointed nature of the post — it looked a bit different originally, but WordPress ate most of it and I had to redo it from scratch.
How is everyone tonight?
PW!
Sorry Doc!
Hillary Clinton: “I have experience”. That may be the problem, Senator.
well, close.
now off to read another excellent pw post!
and remember, your candidate sucks = as does hir opponent(s).
Are you thinking of a ZZ Top song, Raven? ;-)
Well. . .if the jewel fits!
Hello, Dr. Kirk! How’s lovely Cali?
Obama inspires. Clinton desires.
Raven. there’s no one I’d rather see hold the zed!
Hi PW!
I thought Mercury turning anterograde was supposed to help – but sounds like not so much.
I cannot and will not get in anymore big heated discussions tonight.
Same here but I’m trying to push them both further Left. I think that Hilary since she is behind in the polls might be more receptive to gong Left to get more votes.
However she insists on keeping Penn on the payroll. Regardless I want less gossip stories and more discussion about ideas.
(Responding from the end of the last thread) Hi, Kiddo & Lahoma!
Freddie Mercury? He was anterograde? Nooooo!
Yep, Obama as a ‘Sharp Dressed Man!’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_QCRGvT-g
I voted with Bush to attack Iraq. Vote for me. I’m Hillary Clinton and I approve of this ad.
Clinton voted to try to stall Obama’s initiative for ethics reform to make earmarks public. That’s a big difference.
How Obama defied Reid and got real ethics reform passed
Among those who agreed with Reid that most earmarks should be kept secret as to who sponsored them: Clinton
Senator Clinton went on the Senate floor the next day to utter three sentences about the vote:
That’s “Hooker Vitter” to be exact. Wide stances by a Senator to dumb to get a lawyer in early are suspect–but hookers as American as baseball, mom, and apple pie.
Tomorrow Night it’ll be a 10-0 streak; and Clinton needs 60% in every remaining state to win pledge delegates. For what they’re worth,polls don’t show her near that, and Texas polls are every which way.
Hi PW – we’re…well…cold for here. Nights foggy and in the high 40’s (shock!). But the hills are green and lovely white clouds were out playing in the sky today.
How’s your neck of the Lakes?
Hi PW, everyone. I disagree with you that the Obama and Clinton records are nearly the same. A bit ago I posted something on what legislation each of them had put in play. For Clinton alot of it was “naming things” for Obama there was alot of progressive initiative.
Also, in addition to the war (for my thing a key element), Clinton will have a much greater degree of animus from the red staters (assuming that she can actually beat McCain) and this will make it MUCH harder for her to get Congress to address a more progressive agenda.
Great post, PW! You said it best!
Or, if you’re a Republican and can’t spell and don’t have an editor and don’t have a proofreader, that would be “Blogoshere.” (You can’t make this stuff up, you know…)
The calendar shows Mercury going direct today but that’s the mid-point of a five day period of Mercury slowing down and then turning direct so in “reality” it still has another couple of days. And that’s compounded by the full moon/lunar eclipse on Wednesday. Things should smooth out a bit by Friday though. I hope.
Oh yeah? You wanna bet? I have a one-hour nap coming up, then after that we’ll see…*g*
I believe that John Edwards helped shove the Overton window left. Let’s keep pushing…
Actually, PW, I think this is a more apropo tune…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjiCa6iMnbo
Bush Dismisses Iraq Recession: The War Has ‘Nothing To Do With The Economy’
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..q-economy/
PW, great piece, but one little nit to pick in the spirit of accuracy. The Trent Lott remarks were at Ol’ Strom’s 100th birthday party, not part of a eulogy at his funeral.
Hi, PW! Nice post. I hope thafor the sake of the Democratic Party, that both Clinton and Obama will keep the internecine warfare on a decent level of civility, and not just provide ammunition for right-wing attacks in the general.
Oh, God…. it’s all my fault…. I didn’t shop hard enough, and I brought the entire economy down. I’m sorry.
She voted to stall making earmarks public; she voted to authorize Iraq; She voted for Keil Lieberman, and she voted against the Levin amendment and when she tried to explain it Levin said she had no clue as to how to read it after her expensive law school education and 3 year of law books.
She also intentionally distorted the present votes after growing up in Illinois and Saturday, her husband’s White House Counsel and a former Illinois legislator and D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals Judge and current University of Chicago law professor Avner Mikvah went to the op eds of the NYT to take her (and a FDL lawyer’s) distortion apart.
‘Present’ Perfect
I am sick to death of the Clintons.
Although to be honest, most folks couldn’t tell the difference…
I will be in the land of winkin blinkin and nod in about 40 minutes. If anyone posts and Ted Sampley shit I expect you to jump ugly!
That’s great, Marion. I missed the typo when I clicked over there earlier today. It’s shocking that the comments appear to be open. Alas, Nixon’s been dead so long and we have such a battle looming in the general election I just don’t have the energy for any mischief over there.
They are casing the Superdelegates and Michigan and Florida Delegates with a lot more intensity than Michael cased Soma on “Prison Break.”
They’ll grab them any way they can if allowed.
Obama. He’s the one.
Meanwhile, The New Republic’s Michelle Cottle is on Dan Abrams and she’s hot…talking about superdelegates…Huff Post’s Larry O’Donnell is around as well…
That thought occurred to me as well, after I hit “submit comment.”
*g*
Ah, 40 degrees. Haven’t seen that in, well, about two months now. (I think we had a brief flirtation with 40 last month, but then another cold snap set in.) No matter, spring is coming!
Yes and who could imagine a President so arogant as the Clintons who ran such an incompetent campaign. Obama has run a well organized coherent message and strategy. The Clintons have nothing to say. Be gone Clintons. Find your peace with the hedge funds and your celebrity vacations.
Are any of them talking about a do-over for Michigan and Florida? Ed Schultz was making a strong case for it Friday.
Oh, I’ll bet that the guys at Sadly, No may find a moment or two that they can spare from reviewing the Doughy Pantload’s opus!
It was the Kyle/Lieberman vote that really hurt. There’s no excuse for that.
Lets see now. You cut taxes. You spend $15,000,000,000 per month on war, but this has nothing to do with the monster recession that’s coming our way? Oh I get it. Voodoo economics. Don’t you just love Poppy?
Hi PW!
Two points.
While I completely disregard the National Journal’s Senate vote ranking, this one is highly respected, and seems pretty reasonable. Obama is 10th (tied with Biden), and Clinton 20th (tied with Harry Ried).
Also, the progressive blogosphere’s influence is still pretty indirect (Donna Edward’s victory might be changing that). But the media’s arrogance has become apparent to even Fox viewers. I think Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina can all be attributed to the populace saying “f**k you” to the media (at least as a major factor – otherwise, Edwards should have placed better).
Also I REALLY support Obama’s proposal for more open government by using C-Span. She seems to be more about closed government and secrecy.
There’s that durned DLC base again…!
Hell Yah! We are 70% we want the war over now. We want a better Healthcare plan than either of the Dems are proposing, but the MSM press keeps saying that we are too Left. We are the majority!
The GOP/Media complex is what it is.
They will gear up to go after whichever candidate the Democrats nominate, with both guns blazing and throwing every knife they can lay their hands on, along with the kitchen sink.
They will not be concerned with being accurate, only with being brutal.
They will not be concerned about the nation, only with their party.
They will not be concerned about any others who might be smeared and hurt along the way, only with taking down the Democratic nominee.
And they will not be doing any pearl-clutching along the way either.
Very, VERY incompetent campaign. Money thrown away all over the place, no oversight, bad choices for staff.
Don’t forget landmines / cluster bombs.
I think the country doesnt want to go back and the Clintons are back.
Hillary and Bill are a two-fer no matter what. Who could be a vice pres with these two.
And even though no one says anything, Bush Clinton.Bush,Clinton just isnt right.
True, but technically speaking she’s still wrong …
You just described their sense of Humor!
Come on Raven, get in the thick of things, a big squabble *g* – you can do it!
At least more of the public will be a little more aware of Super Delegates. By the way there are about 30 that still haven’t been named.
I belive Senator Obama is the one to lead this country out of the wilderness.
In Hill’s defense, I’ll attribute that to eight years+ of WH attention…!
Yay – hope daffodils come to fields near you soon, PW.
_ _ _
tangent time:
_ _ _
and now for some topic completely different:
I remember when paraphillias (assignment of …er… attraction ranging from intense to palpably erotic for [non-anatomical] inanimate objects) were classified as non-biological psych diagnoses – their cause ascribed to deep-seated intrapsychic conflicts.
Then it turned out that high dose range fluoxetine (in the same doses as used for OCD) made the paraphilia symptoms go away.
All of a sudden, a shoe was just a shoe – not a love interest.
A vehicle for taking us where we decide to go: not the physical manifestation of our wishes and desires.
Our tools, not our rulers.
Why I am hoping Denver is the new Prozac?
Yupper. In the eyes of the GOP and their media buddies, Bill Clinton’s real crime was winning the White House fair and square in 1992. Period.
I hit the rack at 10 and get up at 5:30.
Here are the real problems for we progressives.
WOLFSON/PENN/GRUNEWALD/BIGDOG/Lanny DAVIS
They just happen to be crafting Hillary.
Yes (yawn).
But they’ll pearl-clutch if a Dem responds.
This stuff doesn’t get the traction it used to.
I trust and believe in our new president. President Obama.
OT, this is outrageous:
And we were speaking of renting in the previous thread. I always had to pay mine, and leave the premises clean… Apparently for the Clinton campaign not so much.
They can’t seem to use Cognitive Dissonance in their humor. Perhaps because they can’t/won’t see all the Cognitive Dissonance in their own positions.
How’s your dog’s back doing?
Plus, we exist. And we will be fact-checking the GOP/Media’s asses from here to eternity.
OK, I finally have to come out and say this:
I have a 19-year-old daughter and 17-year-old son who will be voting for the first time in November. They both look like Obama, have tons of friends white and black who also will be voting for the first time. They’re also pretty popular kids, and what they’ve told me is this: that among their circle of friends, and in their friends’ parents” own circle of friends (the kids are often guests at their friends houses for the inevitable sleepovers and all that), they know of no one, no one, who is not voting for Obama.
That’s the report from the field of the younger end of the so-called millennial generation (those born between 1980 and 2000)…from the natives, so to speak…
I was at MSP airport the other day, on a short trip, and I was chatting with an elderly white couple flying home to Phoenix, AZ, and they said they were for Obama…
Somethin’s going on, that’s for sure. Americans seem to want change (whatever that might connote for each of us…)
Agreed, with one exception. I don’t think they care about being brutal – they’ll appeal to peoples’ prejudices and fears. The brutality is just the logical consequence.
Want change. Contrast Obama and Bush.
No, 1992 was a fluke — and they weren’t all that thrilled with GHWB. The real crime was that Bill beat Bob Dole in 1996.
On the Bus: Can John McCain reinvent Rethugs?
Sounds like my schedule, except a bit later both ways… zero dark thirty, as we say here!
Actually, no. Rachel Maddow’s joined them…Now they’re getting snarky. Michelle’s gushing for Obama…(’nuf said on this one): coz there’s a line I definitely will not cross here *g*
Hey, the dude needs viagra just to eat a pear. Of course it’s not what it used to be (if it ever was).
Obama will be our next Leader. ;0)
I believe that is an absolute… M’dear! *g*
Wow, this “plagiarism” charge of Wolfson’s is stupid, though, as it’s resulting in lots of speechifying by Barack on the evening newscasts, followed by Hillary’s “fired up–ready to go” and “Yes we can” copycat remarks. Seems like a boomerang to me so far, and Larry King appears to have picked up the negative reverse aspect of it as well.
I remain unconvinced that either Wolfson or Penn is a benefit to Senator Clinton.
Sorry my reply was not to Snowbird it was suppose to be in reply to me @ 59
Yep. Not brutal for the sake of brutality, but brutal for the sake of inflicting damage on the campaign.
Thanks for that ray of sunshine! After all the rain we had today I certainly appreciate it.
What is always funny is that all of these “plans” like Health Care are argued about as if they wouldn’t be refractred through Congress.
I have a deep-seated, visceral hatred for Hillary, not because she’s a “god-damn liberal,” I’m more liberal than she is, but because of her voting record on the war and a lot of idiocy in general. I think she’s been a perfect clone of Joe Lieberman for most of her Senate career. Her idiotic video game bill was one of the worst-conceived attention-getting ploys in modern political history and of course, her “It Takes a Village” bullshit is utter anathema to any thinking childfree person.
While I WILL vote for her if she’s the nominee, it will be the biggest case of “voting for the lesser of who cares” (Hat tip to Aaron Sorkin) in my 36 years of voting.
I’m hoping Obama can win Wisconsin and Ohio, because it looks like HRC will win Texas.
I SO do NOT want Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic nominee. If she is, we can all get used to saying “President McCain,” and being in Iraq for a helluva lot longer.
That’s my experience, too. In fact, no “cult” phenomena at all. It’s just assumed.
Seems ok, I stopped giving her the rimadyl because she has shown no discomfort at all since the incident. I am still pushing her a couple of miles in the stroller in the morning. I really was to get a grip on her paw chewing/sucking. She is on Dinovite and sweet potato and herring hippie california dog food but not much change. I keep thinking it has some emotional component because when I hold her she stops going after her feet and falls asleep. More info than you needed huh?
thx
The media, complicit and corrupted, will turn on a dime to try and take down Obama, just as quickly as they put him on a pedestal. Media pundits/celebrities, many with 7 figure salaries, are only interested in preserving the positions of power and priviledge. They are purveyors of the status quo rather than fair minded representatives of the 4th Estate. McCain, always a media darling, is the candidate of the status quo. The media will frame and skew their coverage to put him in the best light while at the same time treating Obama the way they treated Gore in 2000. The sooner Americans can throw off the yoke of a media that is duplicitous the sooner Americans can honestly say they have a free press.
Tut, tut, Teddy, they’re a hindrance, period…! ;-)
My God you get more sleep than I do. And I thought people our age are supposed to need fewer hours of sleep 24/7…Oh, I get it, you have some help and I don’t. Now that’s the difference…*g*
My Tennessee friends and family members are no doubt cringing at that comment.
But one of these days, someone’s going to drag that state senator into the 20th century, kicking and screaming.
O’Donell at Dan Abram’s said that neither Hilary’s or Obama’s plan will be enacted? Did he just hint that a fix is in?
What’s the case fpr tje do-over? All parties agreed to the plan.
Hi there, everypup!
Can’t stay long, just want to say I like your article, PW, and one more thing –
I think a tidal wave of support is growing for Obama. And I think the general “American public” is so cynical about the GOP that their disgusting smear attempts (which will follow as sure as night follows day) will work about as well as their disgusting Terry Schiavo antics. WHOEVER our candidate will be.
What kind of help? I’m sober as a frickin monk and have been for years.
Ah Wolfson:
Chris has drunk deeply from the Beltway Koolaid Kooler…!
I hope he doesn’t have any daughters.
I know a few Clinton supporters who wish that Penn would STFU. This latest plagiarism thing is annoying, but mostly because there are far more serious things to do with Obama that the news ought to be covering. Wolfson’s found a subject they’re willing to cover, but I just don’t think people are going to care that much. Hey, at least Obama didn’t plagiarize from a foreigner!
What in the hell was it that you set about doing?
[Mod Note; the tone of a comment like that, without adding some larger context, just leaves us baffled.]
With all of the name recognition and party machinery advantagese and the fact that her spouse is a freakin’ ex-President, she should be doing much better in this primary! Something is wrong somewhere.
I’m hoping your right but this gots me worried.
We have a feeling that President Obama has an understanding of those that struggle. And the other night he mentioned, among many things, children on the reservation. My lady and I identify with this. The inner cities are also reservations. Reservations of poorness and sometimes, many times, hopelessness. The honorable Senator Obama will be getting our vote. This coming November.
No not at all–my dog is the gift that keeps on giving every second.
I had a couple situations with back pain in 2 different dogs, one recently where he had sprained/or torn a muscle (how who knows but he jumps over and on things a lot) and runs around a lot–where they stopped doing most of the running around or jumping they did for a few days, and I was crossing my fingers I didn’t have a significant disc problem. Luckily they went away and didn’t come back.
Itching in dogs can be really hard to solve–and I guess that she went for a good while where she wasn’t biting her feet.
Oh, that’s so poignant. Is there anything like OCD in animals? That’s almost what it sounds like.
So, have you told your friends about this blog called “Firedoglake”?
The blogs have changed the dynamics of this campaign, and what we’ve seen in the primaries will be nothing once both parties have their official nominees. If the traditional media wants to keep up, they’re going to have to work to match the pace of the blogs and online media.
It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
I think he was emphasizing that these plans get bandied about during campaigns as if they had already happened and once anyone gets in the White House getting their plans intact through Congress is rare.
It may be. We have no idea where she came from or how she was treated. We do not think she was abused because she is such a love bug. We just have to stick with it and figure it out. . .
Kiddo likes Obama. And so do I.
Lahoma
Whaa…? Her experience…? Bwhahahaha…
I was waiting for Joe Biden to slap down Wolfson:
I know plagarism.
Plagarists are friends of mine.
And Mr. Wolfson, Obama’s no plagarist.
Maybe Joe’s just waiting to say this until after the President’s day holiday is past. More media attention, don’t you know.
Happy trails
to you
President Obama will be getting our votes too. (Our cats have raised their paws, but they’re not allowed to register. They’re indoor cats.)
are you bent, son? :~)
Not Chris, sorry Lawrence O’Donell
They’re indoor cats.)
and thus not poll cats….
Probably true, but still it sets things up in a way that it makes it more difficult to change things.
I think that anyone who has looked at these plans as anything other than a statement of principles and concerns is consuming some form of hallucinagen. Whatever the plan is will have to get past Congress, which will do it’s best to turn it into something that its own mother wouldn’t recognize and won’t work at all.
It’s been a loonnnggg weekend, and I’ve been fighting a cold. Actually, the cold’s been doing the fighting, and I’ve mostly sort of been sitting here and taking it.
Why do you say that it looks like HRC is gonna win TX. I’ve seen several reports over the last few days showing the exact opposite, including a new CNN poll today showing them tied, which is a 10 point swing in a week:
http://burntorangereport.com/s…..aryId=5021
Another polling company has Obama up 6% right now, and I don’t think he’s hardly been in TX yet, or at all since last Summer. Burnt Orange Report also did delegate breakdown analysis of where things are right now throughout TX, and even if Hillary wins the voting percentage, it’s looking like Obama will win approx 6 more delegates.
Plus, whenever Obama starts campaigning in a state, he’s numbers go up a lot either for a win or really narrows the gap, so I’m thinking he’s chnces are quite good in TX.
I hope so, If the plans get changed I hope they change Left.
good one – or as in Tony Sopranos place – pole cats *g*
One thing I’d always do that you probably have going, is that when a dog id biting themselves continually make sure they’re on Advantix or Frontline year round.
No one should take Dan Abrams seriously, anyway.
Very true.
You make me laugh out loud at least once a day! For this I love you.
Joe will never say this. Check out his law school career.
I think people are catching on to how incompetent the Clintons’ campaign is, filled with hacks and how competent the Obama campaign is. Imagine the Clintons running the country again, like the campaign they are running now. Like the mush they created in the eight years they were there before.
What a breath of fresh air is Obama.
Here in Florida the change in primary date was a direct case of ratfu**ery by the Republican legislature. I’m pretty sure there was a dose of that in Michigan, too. Democratic turnout in Florida was nowhere near the record levels seen in other states, because we knew our votes wouldn’t count (I did vote, but was very torn by the whole situation). In Michigan, the only candidate on the ballot was Clinton. Neither candidate campaigned in either state.
In a do-over, you set a date, allow campaigning and then have a true primary. Nobody who voted the first time is disenfranchised; they simply show up and vote again.
ah, sorry to hear that. it explains why you didn’t take the bait.
Actually it’s quite extraordinary. My son, for instance, just laughs at me when I tell him it’s a toss-up between Hill and Obama…because nothing in his experience with his friends and their parents has told him as much… He’s absolutely convinced Obama will get the nomination hands down. And then I’ll risk going a little bit further here: The Clinton camp must know this as well–they’re quite good at oppo-research and research in general–anyway they must know it. And that’s why the Big Dawg has been acting weirder by the day, if not by the hour…
Meanwhile, Dirty-Dog Dan Abrams LOVES having Rachel Maddow and Michelle Cottle on at the same time–the one blonde, the other brunette, but…Rachel is not really available to him for quite obvious reasons that I won’t reveal to non-cognoscenti…*g*
Kiddo has retired for the night with our Siamese upstairs. He loves that cat. As do I. She follows him everywhere. He calls her baby girl.
L.
ah, shucks….. backatcha!
You don’t know? Don’t you have a spouse?
Not really a pun if you have to ’splain it, yo? *g*
When dogs have allergies, they often bite their feet obsessively. They perspire through their feet, and their feet will itch them horribly much the same way that my eyes itch when allergy season is on us.
Our beloved pup has had foot pad infections and skin infections (scratching her sides with a back paw), both as a result of allergies. It took us a bit to figure out what was going on.
Now that we give her two different antihistamines under vet advice (we can give first one or another, and can even give both at once if events warrant), we’ve been able to avoid any more infections.
The biting and scratching stops once the antihistamines kick in. We have to be observant and watch for any signs of biting or scratching starting again.
I think he’s gotten better lately or at least it’s more interesting when he does the election thing than when he gets ragging ADA’s kicking around the latest kidnapping or Britney/Baby Daddy/OJ hearing.
He did Harvard law which should make him better. His Dad is Floyd Abrams the famous 1st Amendment guy who has won a lot of landmark cases in the S. Ct.
*slapping forehead*
I wouldn’t write Dan off like that, on occasion he’s right, like a analog clock is right twice a day at least!! *g*
You don’t have to be cognisenti to figure that one out. She’s a cutie, but, well, ’nuff said.
The worth of a pun, after all, is in the oy of the beholder.
(h/t Spider Robinson)
Thank you, I could not have said it better myself. I think you can tell a lot about a candidate by how they run their campaign and who they hire to run it. The fact that Hillary has Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson tells me a lot about her. These two guys will scrape the gutter and trash anyone if they think there is an advantage to them in it. I cringe when I see either one on TV. Lately, just see a Clinton on TV give the same feeling. I can’t imagine four more years of them, and I voted for Bill twice.
Our Meezer started out as Mr. Marion in Savannah’s cat but, like the fickle little thing she is, she now insists on using me as her trampoline all night long. Kiddo has my sympathies if your cat is a midnight gymnast…
Raven if you’re still here click
Gotta run
L8r
OT Musharraf lost I wonder how Bush’s position on Pakistan will change.
Not really a pun if you have to ’splain it, yo? *g*
busted. it violates one of the three tenets I once postulated for Late Nite coomentary:
- never explain
- never apologize
- never revisit a quip to ask if anyone “got it”.
During the Lamont campaign after he kicked Traitor Joe’s hadassah in the primary, I seem to remember things going downhill right after Hillary “loaned” Howard Wolfson to Lamont. There seemed to crucial mistakes made right after Ned met with Hillary. There was the vacation Lamont took right after his win which seemed to completely end the huge momentum Lamont had, and the BigMedia narrativve seemed to change right at the time. I remember feeling some pangs of conspiracy theory thought at the time, since the change was so drastic and palpable.
The Wolfson to Lamont deal brings a whole new meaning to “sub-prime loan.”
Last poll I saw had HRC with greater than 50 percent in Texas, and Obama at 37 percent.
I see they yanked my post, I must have made someone verrry annngry with it, even though it’s the truth. She’s an idiot.
I hope I’m wrong and Obama kicks her butt in Texas, but if HRC gets the nomination, we lose again.
Well in that respect, I’m cognoscenti (in fact, it was Allison that spilled the beans). But I LOVE her anyway! *G*
More silliness.
I sometimes wonder how much better off Democrats would be without their consultants.
never mind
We would have 80% easy!
OT –
I guess you all heard about the death of a woman who fell from the 19th floor of the UN building? Very odd. Police bagged her hands before the body was taken away. They often do that to preserve evidence if there was a struggle.
http://www.innercitypress.com/un2death021708.html
Whoa, back up the bus… that’s a pretty heavy fait accompli you’ve laid on Obama. A word with some very specific criteria is not one to fling around lightly.
I remember that too. Hmmm.
MrsK8, I think Raven has left for the evening. I’ve taken the liberty of copying the text of your post, along with your name and time time you posted, and I’ll put it up for him when next I see him in the threads. You’ve suggested a wonderful possible solution for him, and I want to make sure he sees it. I hope this is okay with you?
Here in Florida the change in primary date was a direct case of ratfu**ery by the Republican legislature. I’m pretty sure there was a dose of that in Michigan, too. Democratic turnout in Florida was nowhere near the record levels seen in other states, because we knew our votes
I agree with all these points that you’ll never hear out of Howard Wolfson’s mouth. From every think I can read/hear though it doesn’t seem like the legislatures who are Republican dominated with a Republican governor in Florida are going to fund a do-over, and one component of that is they’d love to see a trainwreck in Denver.
Am I wrong about the possibilities of a do-over in Florida? I think the DNC would have to pay for a do-over in either state for it to happen.
The triangulation did him in…! Not the slice and dice of the Subprimes, it was a beheading rather than the death by attrition of a thousand cuts…!
never mind
I don’t get it. :~)
I’m listening to HRC talk about the “economy is losing jobs” and she’s in FAVOR of outsourcing IT to India. She talks out of both sides of her mouth. It drives me CRAZY.
I got as far as your comment and skipped down to reply. I remember when the press was all over Roseanne Barr trying to find dirt on her. Some rag newspaper went to the beach house she had just left, trashed it and then wrote the story about what pigs they were. Sounds like this story.
They also called Child Protective Services and then wrote a story “CPS called to Roseanne’s House”. Notice, that was a true statement since they didn’t claim there was abuse/neglect.
Lamont got beheaded because the DLC and the DSSC threw him under the bus.
I don’t think the National DemocratIC Party should allow the FL Repub legislature make our rules for us, and determine how we should elect our nominee. To argue for a re-do is giving the FL Repubs that power. The FL Dems are going to have to fix this problem within FL first.
Plus, I’ve read reports that it costs $10 million to hold the election in MI, and I’d assume 10s of millions more for FL. Elections are mostly paid for with taxpayer dollars, so how would these re-dos even be financially possible, even if they were justifiable, which they’re not IMO?
My understanding is that the Fla-Dems went along with it readily. On a re-do. I read somewhere that this had been offered by the DNC but refused because they want the original vote to stand. (Anyone else read this).
Oh, would you like me to explain that? *g*
only if you apologize first.
…and then there was that word the raven kept saying (not the one who posts here)
Taylor Marsh is really ugly tonight over on Huff Post.
I got that one.
Oh Marion, please do! Thank you!
Or if anyone has Raven’s email addy, feel free to forward my comment. I also meant to include one other additional allergy symptom — obsessive licking of legs.
Every single allergy season, our Tandy seems to break out in a slightly different version of these similar symptoms — foot biting, scratching, licking. Who knows what it will present as this coming spring? sigh
At least we now know to keep a sharp eye on her, no matter what new “weird” thing she gets up to. Sadly, allergy “season” seems to last longer and longer each year. We have, happily, managed to avoid her having to take any steroids so far — just by juggling different antihistamines (and there are more we can try in future) so that her body doesn’t get too accustomed to any one antihistamine.
Obama hasn’t gotten a “free ride” from the press, he just doesn’t have half the country hating his guts.
If her campaign is anything to go by, she’s not the person I want carrying the torch for us. Loyalty has trumped competence, her #2 is a loose cannon and can’t be trusted to keep his mouth shut at crucial junctures, and she had no plan to win after the big battle of Super Tuesday – sound like anyone we know?
I’m sorry, but Hillary is NOT the answer. I know this pisses off the feminists, but I’m not about to vote for just ANY woman for the sake of posterity.
I see your “post” just fine, unless there’s some other one you’re talking about. Polls that give Hillary that kind of margin in TX were common a week or two ago, but now they’ve all, at least the several that I’ve seen, have Obama within 10%, tied or in the lead, so it’s looking pretty good for him as he just starts his campaign in TX.
As a woman, Im still wondering why Hillary is popular. Because shes a woman?
Last poll I saw had HRC with greater than 50 percent in Texas, and Obama at 37 percent.
CNN poll today for Texas:
Clinton: 50
Obama: 48
http://tpmelectioncentral.talk…..ad_hea.php
In michigan? The idea to move it up was the M Democratic Party’s plan. But it was the Rethug dominated state Supreme Court that allowed it to go forward with the stupid plan. So the Dems got disenfranchised and the Rethugs went along without a hitch. Business as usual.
The DNC reacted accordingly to the breaking of the rules, though. I wouldn’t mind a do over, but i’m more looking forward to the GE, personally. The do over would also mess up the disciplinary action that was done for a reason. If they cant’ get the right amount of delegates and need a tie breaker of sorts? Then i’d think a do over for both states would be warranted. Maybe. Or if they absolutely decide to seat them anyway to appease the state’s shrill voices? Then divide them 50/50 between our remaining candidates. The time to alter the Primary sequencing is AFTER the GE. Then you can spend 2 more years bickering and negotiating the terms of the order or a day or two sequence of ALL 50 states voting at once. (which is better.)
I hope to hell you’re right. Nothing, at least nothing in politics, would make me happier than for Obama to sweep WI, OH, and TX. That would be the end of HRC and we could concentrate on defeating the repukes.
I’d vote for MANY women in this country. I’d have voted for Barbara Jordan, I’d vote for Claire McKaskill, I’d vote for Nancy Pelosi, though I’m utterly disappointed in her as SOtH.
But HRC CANNOT defeat McCain.
Most polls as of now have Texas close to a dead heat or within the margin of error. That’s a far cry from HRC winning every state by a margin of 60%.
CNN Texas poll: Dead heat among Democrats
Several commenters around here have claimed that an Obama win will “set back women” for many years to come. In light of Donna Edwards’ 25% win over a black man, I wonder if people still feel that way? I think Donna would’ve won without an Obama bump, but it sure seems like his campaign helped Donna’s margin.
There is so much wrong with this whitewash of Clinton that it’s hard to know where to start.
There was noting “initial” about her standing and applauding for bush’s surge bullshit two weeks go.
Nothing “initial” about her support for Kyle-Lieberman.
Nothing “initial” about her kissing FauxNew’s butt, a year and a half ago, when she attended their big birthday party. (What did she say to Bill O’Reilly:
“Hi, Bill! How’s tricks? Got any good rip jobs on me and my family and the rest of the democrats, on your to-do list?”)
Nothing “Initial” two months ago, when she used two classic republican sticks to beat Obama for “being too far left”, when she went after him for saying, years ago, that he was against the death penalty, and (she said) for being in favor of socialized medicine.
As a lifelong progressive, and a real one, when I hear a democrat going after another one, on THOSE points, I don’t give a shit if they’ve got Bob La Follette’s profile tattooed on their butt. They aint no progressive.
And word; it’s about time that people stopped saying she is.
You guys are losing any cred, when you keep saying that there’s not much difference between them. It’s ridiculous that you’re trying to ride Obama’s coattails.
As for electability, after Obama shellacked she AND the repubs in some conservative states, that jury is in. With Obama, we’ll have an excellent chance to carry South Carolina for the first time in 32 years, and the numbers in the primary down here, with their implications for the “safe” south, have the RNC shitting their pants.
One other thing; IF the only difference between them WERE her initial support for the war, I’ll just point out that in the general, John McCain is going to be campaigning with 4,000 of our troops hanging around his neck.
With Hillary “staying the course” on showing NO remorse for her part in creating the misery in Iraq, does anyone on here think that she’s going to be pointing those out?
For the umpteenth time; we cannot win this election without hammering bush and the GOP for their debacle.
And Clinton has no hammer; she’s been initially cutting it up into small pieces to try to trade to the conservatives for votes.
Doesn’t she need 59.7% here on out?
I can’t believe I forgot to mention yet one more dog allergy symptom — obsessively rubbing snout/muzzle on rough-textured upholstery or carpet. It’s probably a good idea to think of allergies first whenever any obsessive behavior starts. If it responds to an antihistamine, then it’s an allergy! And be sure to know which antihistamines are fine for dogs.
Currently, we use benadryl and/or hydroxyzine. There are plenty of vet websites which post more detailed info, including dosage rates depending on dog size.
From MW:
emphasis mine, of course. By that definition, he did it. He apologized and gave credit later, after he was caught. The text of his apology implies to me that he knew where that speech came from.
Hmmm… Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach. Those that can’t teach become consultants.
Now, before I get flamed this applies much more to physical things like sports. Some of the greatest skating teachers weren’t world-class competitors. The next level down, well, they write about it, hang around the rink… You get the picture.
Yeah, that’s nonsense. The people putting Obama over the top are young voters, and they’re not prone to any forms of racism or sexism. It’s a brand new world, and Obama’s the only one who seems to realize that.
I’m not very familiar with how either Florida or Michigan got into the shape it did. I imagine it will get a lot of scrutiny soon. I admit I wasn’t watching it closely at all when it happened.
I think in Michigan Debbie Dingell was heavily involved and to a lesser extent Carl Levin.
EW has indicated the legislature won’t pay for a do-over there.
If you’ve read anywhere that DNC has offered a redo–I’m not doubting you read it but I haven’t seen that anywhere. I’d like to see either those states are out of it this time around, the way the DNC made the rules, or that there is a do-over with a period to campaign–which means IMO the DNC ought to get off its butt now and make a clear decision instead of the mealy mouthed bullshit approach Shumner was advocating on MTP where he couldn’t give a straight answer to any question or issue posed by his DC roomate Dick Durbin. There is, as Jim White pointed out compelling rationale not to let Clinton break the rules in midstream and people aren’t going to stand for it.
Obama wasn’t even on the ballot in Michigan and people didn’t vote in serious numbers. Both candidates didn’t campaign in either state, although they attended fund raisers and Clinton bickered because Obama answered reporters questions for about 6 minutes after one of them.
Look, this is how she seems to do business. She did it in Maine too.
Sold her soul she has?
Great! I’ll keep my eye out for him, and let him know.
Um, sorry, Portsmouth is in New Hampshire. No one pays attention to Maine :-(.
*g* LOL–If you have facts, I’m hardly going to argue with you–I can’t be that precise. It’s my understanding to win the committed delegates now she has to win every state on out by about 6/10 votes and no polls have her close to that. Texas is very close with all current polls and he’s gaining there.
People say that Pennsylvania will be influenced by results in Ohio, but I don’t have any abilities to parse that other than to think there would be momentum going if Obama does fairly well through Mar. 4.
I know she expected to close the deal by Feb. 5 and was shaken that she didn’t. She and Bill didn’t expect this kind of competition until very recently.
Meanwhile, the Pakistani returns are coming in, and it doesn’t look good for Bush’s BFF Musharraf . . .
I’m guessing that the White House staff is arguing about who has to tell Bush the results, and explain that the Supreme Court can’t do anything about them.
Speaking of harsh.
I think Marsh’s post is poor, but I don’t think it falls anywhere near soul selling category.
The stars are in alignment
G
And we engage the battle of disinformation as experienced today by this guy.
I would feel somewhat relieved to know my kids had a fighting chance, where the dark side gives none.
This is certainly a problem for her campaign, but I doubt that she actually pays the rent or cleans up the headquarters. Someone should be paying attention to all this kind of stuff for her but a candidate for prez cannot do everything.
I don’t see how an Obama win is going to set back women at all.
I am curious about who it was in the M Democratic party who was pressing this. My sense is that many of the top figures here, as in NH, NY, Nev and elsewhere were Hillary supporters and it was the Clinton hope to get all the ducks lined up early in her favor. In short she/they knew that Fla and Mich were likely to have support for it and so they agreed to go against the party (and Dean). Any thoughts?
Since you seem to like to frequently reference that amendment Hillary voted for, I’d think you would at least be able to spell the name of Lieberman’s co-sponsor correctly.
Probably no one better than Marcy to talk about the dynamics of Michigan. Do we have other people here from Michigan?
“A relatively easy ride from the press?”
I beg to differ. Minus MSNBC and their mindless rants, the press nearly unanimously went right along with the conventional wisdom that all Hillary had to do was walk across the stage once, and she would receive the democratic nomination like she was the Tabor City N.C. Sweet Potato queen.
And for all the “equalizers” trying so desperately to turn she and Obama into Siamese Twins, if you think that she has faced the worst she’ll face, or that Obama can’t handle anything the warbots throw at him, you are badly mistaken.
If we dems send Obama on his way to Denver free and clear of any possibility of the party hacks finagling a lead for him, but not the 2025, into a Clinton smoke-filled-room, the instant his nomination becomes a given, that little 6-7 point bulge over McCain will start to expand. By midsummer, it’s going to be in the high teens, if not higher, and the republican rats will be standing in line to hit the hawser lines.
Conversely, nominating Clinton will give McCain instant cachet and viability to one hell of a lot of voters who are unhappy about george bush and the republicans.
We shouldn’t even be having to debate this. Obama has been ruining both she and the republicans, in what amounts to the GOP’s own back yard.
Barack Obama is going to do in the general what he’s doing in the primaries. That is, motivate people to vote democratic in numbers and in places that haven’t seen that, in decades.
The only tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee left for us to see in this election will be John McCain and Hillary Clinton, if we’re politically suicidal enough to nominate her.
When the Obama folks are saying “Electing a black man will be a historic event” and the Clinton folks are saying “Electing a woman will be a historic event,” it’s easy to imagine how someone on the losing end of this contest might feel set back.
I am upstairs watching a movie. In bed with kiddo. He promised to watch it with me. He is sleeping. Same old same ol. I adore this man. Good night, all you wonderful warriors.
Thanks for this.
Keep ‘em coming! I’m copying all of your information to put into one ginormous post for Raven. Anything you can think of… I’ll copy and paste for him. He’ll be grateful, I’m sure.
Sleep tight!
Um, I guess I’m hoping you didn’t read my comment as snark? It wasn’t.
RBG, is my mis-spelling of the name of the amendment more objectionable to you than the fact that Hillary voted for it? :o)
The question I’m asking is whether Marsh is blogging independently or is she commenting as a Clinton partisan or paid staffer or consultant?
This is a raw subject for folks in my part of the country where Tom Daschle was voted out of office in large part because of two bloggers who were paid Republican partisans. Their supposed independent blogging drove a lot of the media conversation in anti-Daschle ways.`
I think it’s a fair question, flippantly posed? That’s your call.
OOOOPS…. I’m hanging my head in abject shame. Does the fact that my mother was from Maine count?! *G*
I’m sorry, but you can’t convince me that a candidate whose approval ratings have rarely seen the sunny side of 50% is “electable”. Stop trying to sell me this crap.
Sadly i didn’t pay attention at the time that politicking in the state legislature was going on. So i don’t know all the details on who was involved where. I had a slew of personal crises at the time. All i knew is that when teh dust settled they’d settled on jan 15th and the DNC accordingly levied their punishment.
Yes, but the degrees of success each of them will have had will be historic events in themselves–events that can be built upon in the future, not setbacks. When has a woman ever gotten so close to the nomination? When has a black ever gotten so close to the nomination? A disappointment to some, perhaps, but not necessarily a setback, in my view. More like progress.
99% of the drugs that make it to market are extensively tested in dogs before they go through the controlled hospital bed stage and then farm out to let docs test them in their offices (so-called NDAs)–and vets sometimes get meds earlier on than the human market does.
Atarax and benadryl are very safe in dogs, but the tough thing of course, ayk is to figure out why the dog is itching and usually biting where they itch.
Oh, sleep well and safe you lovely people!
It is a fair question – don’t have the answer but it seems that people on both sides are beginning to get a little over the top. I have a hard time understanding it because I thought we were all on the SAME side.
Her campaign took a whole month to pay a bill? Good grief, it’s a wonder anyone is willing to sell me anything.
Cripes, the guy’s whining about not promptly getting a $500 check for renting out an empty building for five days. Were the W’s missing from the keyboards, too? Let him give the fucking thing to Obama. That’ll about pay for their next consultant pizza feed, I’ll bet.
Yeah thanks. I always forget Marcy’s from MI, and she’s on the other side of the mitten from me. ^^ She’d most definitely know those particulars. All i know is that it was one helluva clusterfuck!
You’re forgiven. It’s only the Piscataqua River that separates them.
Thanks. I am sorry about your crises, hopefully they are better now. Wishing you well…..
The DNC offered Florida about $880,000. That will get nowhere for an election or a caucus.
GordonM@56;
Excellent point about the landmines and clusterbombs. And, as I recall, her vote on that wasn’t “initial”, either. It was in the fall of 2006.
No slack.
I have not read all the comments, so someone may have made this point. If so, sorry. I voted for Bill Clinton in both of his Presidential elections. However, there is no way I can vote for Hillary in this one. The reason is simple; her campaign is a repeat of the Rove/Bush campaigns. Howard Wolfson and Harold Ickes recent comments are only part of the proof. Ickes trying to show that he can legitimately claim that his positions on Florida and Michigan while a member of the DNC jive with his current defense of his current support of Clinton’s position of now crying for their recognition is unbelievable beyond unbelievable. The hubris. Wolfson is an attack dog – nothing more – a creature out of the Rove play book. I am disgusted at the sense of entitlement.
That’s equivalent to Delay and Daschle, being ousted from their high horses…!
I guess you neglected to read down to this part:
I was taught that if you’re sloppy and neglectful in small things you will be sloppy and neglectful in large things too.
Nope, but if you’re going to make the same point, day after day, it seems like the least you could do was get the name of the amendment correct.
Jeez, and you didn’t even get to Mark Penn (my nominee for *ssh*l* of the decade).
Good night, Ms. Kiddo, wherever you are! :o)
I agree with you, but that’s not to say *they* will agree.
You are generous calling it sloppy and neglectful. After a full year of services and no payments, I’d call it something else.
Oh good! Thank you Marion! I’m not here often enough, and I hate to think of poor doggies suffering, if a remedy is available.
All I can think of to add is this:
It doesn’t hurt to try one, or a couple of antihistamines. This can be tried without even seeing the vet.
Oftentimes vets will push steroids. (We’re lucky in that our docs prefer to leave them as a last resort, our own sentiment.) I’d say to never try steroids first, try a couple of different antihistamines, many of these can be had over the counter. If they work, it will be obvious very, very quickly — within the first two/three doses.
And be sure to google for allowable types and appropriate dosages of antihistamines for dogs. If I had saved the websites I read years ago, I would link to them now, but I didn’t save them, knowing I could google up the results again if I ever needed to.
That’s all I can think of now — and I have to go offline now, Mr. K8 is home and we have some stuff we have to do. But if should happen to think of anything else, I’ll come back to this thread to post it.
Oh — I should ask — I didn’t hear the original description of the poor suffering pup, I don’t think, other than to hear of foot biting. Do you know if the dog in question has developed an infection on one or more feet? If so, I can comment later on how to treat such soft tissue/skin infections in dogs, at least at early stages of infection.
Actually, 62% of Obama supporters say Clinton is good, and 60% of Clinton supporters say Obama is good. It’s just that in the blogosphere, we deal with the other 38-40%.
Good point. I could go on and on. Thought I would spare everyone a full fledged rant.
Dial back the misogyny. I’m going to start banning people pretty soon.
Really, if you think this might be directed at you, it is. Knock it off and go hang out some place where it’s in vogue. I’m sure you’ll be celebrated for it, but it’s causing a lot of our regulars not to want to comment here for fear of being jumped on, and if I have to choose, you lose.
Not kidding.
The junior senator from Arizona
Quite true.
EW has done some good posts on Michigan and I expect will soon do some more on the situation there. This is such a compelling argument for “rotating regionals” where there is not this political infighting to shove up in line to be first which is not only ridiculous for the relatively small amount of limelight time it gives a state, but mainly because of the compression of schedules that distorts the campaign and is insane for all the candidates.
Rotating regionals would have several states voting on a more rationale schedule and rotate who is first each cycle.
They would do away with what got us to Florida and Michigan.
Well, I missed the news that the Dakotas merged. Actually, I am as much a part of Daschle country as you are. There were many reasons he was beaten, if you chose to attribute a signicant portion to GOP secret bloggers, well, I guess that is one theory.
Now, as for Marsh, her post was lame as hell and she is clearly far less objective than one would hope for. But, it seems as I read the progressive blogs, she is not alone in having gone round the bend in her advocacy of one Democratic candidate over another.
Good night folks. Thanks for the discussion of the do-over. Of course, the best outcome is for one candidate to develop a large enough lead in the next few weeks that superdelegates, FL and MI make no difference to the outcome. I would prefer that to be Obama but would gladly vote for Hillary if she developed that large a lead. My biggest concern about her is not her campaign advisor, but her choice of policy advisors like O’Hanlon. Compare him to Obama’s choice of Samatha Power for foreign policy advice.
With, *they* either is a lose/lose prop anyways… Either will shatter stereotypes, irregardless, Both persuasions benefit ultimately…!
More wit and wisdom from Howard “Sub Prime” Wolfson. Between him and Penn, I have serious concerns about Hillary’s judgment.
I’ve copied all of your posts, and will get them to Raven. If you think of anything else you can either look for him, or e-mail me at mgpaquin AT aol DOT com. I’d be more than delighted to pass your knowledge on to him. Sleep well!
Montana@225:
Same here; twice voted for Bubba. Defended him, as well as I could, against Jesse Helms and the GOP’s semen inquistion.
Defended Hillary, whom I thought handled that horrible mess with as much class and dignity as a lady could.
Delighted when she won her seat in N.Y. DEElighted.
Then: appalled, as she triangulated to the right in search of conservative votes, on what amounted to the most politically stupid snipe hunt in our history. What was she thinking?
I know what she was thinking: She was thinking: “Too many voters perceive me as a flaming librul; nggggg….must-appear-more-conservative.”
What savvy! With Iraq imploding around bush and the republican’s ears, she couldn’t bring herself to finally and unequivocally name it for what it was, a bloody, miserable, catastrophic, mistake; and the same thing, to vote for it. And, two weeks ago, she stands and applauds the surge.
I don’t know that she’s only weighing moving to the left. She might just throw in with the repubs completely, and go after Obama for being soft on terrrrr. :o)
I wish she would. It would end this debate. :o)
http://www.exile.ru/articles/d…..038;PAGE=2
Raven – I had a pup that went nuts on her feet all the time – it was “inhaled allergies”… benedryl helped immensely…
Wow, I just read the Taylor Marsh piece at HuffPo. Brutal. I’ll try to tactful about my reaction to it. Shame on her.
If it’s okay with you, I’ll add your reply to the information from MrsK8, because it corroborates what she said. Okay with you?
Dakotas haven’t merged yet…and it was SD Democrats who attributed the Republican-paid bloggers as a strong reason the popular Daschle was turned out of office, not me. There was briefly a flurry suggesting a similar strategy would be used against our Senator in ND next go-round.
The tension on both sides for those who observe closely or actually work on behalf of both Clinton and Obama is rising, without a doubt. As a survivor of ‘68, I intend to work hard to unite people behind the Democratic nominee. Too much is at stake not to. In the meantime, I think we’re all obliged to be candid about where we’re coming from.
I was a strong Edwards supporter, still am. I hope wherever he and Elizabeth set up shop after the campaign season it will provide an opportunity for involvement by people like me. [example, Carter’s Carter Center and Habitat for Humanity work.]
I’m an Obama supporter now, for a lot of reasons. But first and foremost I’m an everyday American who wants to restore the best of America.
I’m baaaaaaaack@!!!!
Been away. had computer “issues”. I hate the way that word is over used. I had computer problems is what I had. What’s goin’ on? Did Hillary quit yet?
It’s also important to note that McCain is 94th in that ranking: his ill-deserved reputation for being a moderate or maverick doesn’t gibe with his voting record as one of the most conservative of the Republicans.
I value Clinton’s experience and will vote for her in the primary but will vote for Obama in the general if he is our nominee.
Watertiger is upstairs with my zed!
Are you Howard Wolfson?
About 5 million people read left wing blogs. We have a limited ability (not nonexistant, but limited)to push stories into the corporate press. I am less sanguine that we make a huge difference, especially for the Obama campaign, whose blog outreach has been abysmal.
I would be happy to be wrong, and I don’t think we’re insignificant. But I also don’t think we’re yet all that important if (per the Daou triangle) thesis, at least one of the two other sides work with us.
Oftentimes vets will push steroids.
They aren’t pushing glucocorticoids–they’re prescribing them appropriately and safely. And MD’s do the same when its appropriate.
It’s very important to distinguish between Prednisone or a glucocorticoid which is used for acute itching and can be very effective and “steroids” in the perjorative sense of anabolic steroids that get a lot of press with athletes. They are extremely different as to risk–particularly in the context that a glucocorticoid like Prednisone is used for acute itching like poision ivy for example.
I can’t count how many people I’ve seen who are miserable from poison ivy or an acute dermatitis like it who clear up rapidly after tapered prednisone is used and should have been used early on.
For most physicians, rather than as a last resort when they are appropriate for the diagnosis, like an acute allergic dermatitis, poison ivy being a sterotypical example, a glucocorticoid like Prednisone is extremely safe and very effective.
Side effects from glucocorticoids occur by and large when they are used for quite an extended period of time and in the context a vet or MD would use to alleviate itching, we’re not talking about extended use.
Two examples of extended period of time where steroid use is of significant concern would be anabolic steroids to treat anemia in patients with renal disease, or to fight rejection in transplant patients.
And how does he compare to Madeleine “what are we spending all this money on a military for if we don’t get to use ‘em” Albright?
I have come into the dog itching problem late and didn’t read all if the comments. I have a dog with cushings and suffers greatly from itching. There is a cordisone spray that stops the cycle of itching. Once the cycle is stopped you don’t have to use it often. It is over the counter,
HRC is doing a lot of visible shopping in Mexican markets for peppers and elsewhere for Super Delegates, Michigan and Florida delegates in what she claims were elections.
Actually HRC has surrounded herself with Bill’s foreign policy advisors most notably former secretary of state Madeleine Albright and former National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, and Richard Holbrooke although she took Madeline off the dias for backdrop as she had originally done.
Obama is using Brzezinski, Tony Lake, former assistant secretary of State Susan Rice, and former Navy secretaryRichard Danzig.
He also uses Joseph Cirincione and Larence Korb from Center for American Progress, Samantha Power, from Harvard, and former NSA advisor who was at FDL on the book blog Sunday, Richard Clarke who has done a good job of taking apart the lies of the Bush administration for seven years.
You’re right, I missed that bit. Maybe that’s what they should have led with.
I have yet to encounter a temporary organization like a national political campaign that hasn’t a few of these sorts of stories. They end up depending on hundreds of temporary workers and thousands of volunteers, some of whom aren’t terribly reliable. While $7500 is a lot to the guy to whom it was owed, it’s a drop in the bucket to any serious Presidential campaign.
If the Obama campaign doesn’t end up with a few of these, I’ll be surprised, to say the least. My guess is that the oppo research is happening right now. All these stories have appeared in the last two weeks. It could be coincidence given the timing of the rentals, or it might not.
And I don’t see where Prairie Sunshine gets the “one year” from. The story about the suite in Iowa started in June or July. That’s not a year.
After today’s campaign happenings which have gotten my hackles up, I’m just going to adhere by the following:
If you can’t say something nice about someone, don’t say anything at all.
We will see what tomorrow brings
Montana: Nope. :o)
I am new to this and meant the response to to go to eCAHNomics and his Howard Wolfson like smear efforts. My sincere apologies for whatever harm I may have done to your reputation.
hi montana – welcome to the lake – it happens to us all :)
Thanks. Been reading for a long time. Just started commenting tonight.
Merci beaucoup! jeeze…..
excellent – once ya have de-lurked, its hard to go back to being a reader. we are partying with watertiger upstairs if you wanna join us
Where from in Montana? I have peeps up that way, oh and welcome :)
Western Montana, halfway between Yellowstone and Glacier National Parks.
cool, they are in the same area.my peeps are in Missoula, Kalispel, Polson and Bozeman.
Not at all, Montana, and I’m not ower-muckle concerned about my reputation. :o)
I’m more concerned that we don’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, for the third time running.
Does no one see the irony in Obama plagiarizing a speech about how words matter? And yes, it is plagiarizing even if the original author doesn’t mind you using it. You are supposed to cite the author. He could have said, “Here is something my good friend Patrick Deval says…”, but he didn’t. He simply passed it off as his own. And no, it was not just two words. It was a whole minute of speech. Obama’s response is to attack Clinton for saying “fired up and ready to go!”. That is not a speech, and it’s not even a slogan. It is something ordinary people say all the time. I can’t believe anyone is falling for this guy. Obama’s rhetoric is empty.
Mawm@275;
I would rather it Be empty, than supportive of bush’s bloody quagmire.
Which is what Hillary Clinton’s rhetoric has been, for most of the past 5 years.
And everyone says that single-payer is a non-starter except for a significant majority of the people who want single-payer.
That must mean that the majority of us are ‘too far left.’
And his supporters should pay more attention to his right-of-center free market economic advisors:
David Cutler – ‘health care industry profits should be kept high as incentive’
Austen Goolsbee – ‘what mortgage crisis’
Jeffrey Liebman – ‘let’s privatize Social Security’
Goldman-Sachs picks Obama for obvious reasons.
Read “SubPrime Obama” in the Feb. 11 edition of the Nation