
In the backing-and-forthing between the Clinton and Obama factions, various epithets and accusations have been hurled. The Obamaites accuse Hillary Clinton of being a phenomenonally unpopular person who will be an easy takedown for John McCain in the fall; the Clintonites, in turn, say that Barack has yet to be attacked as viciously as Hillary has been over the past two decades, and that he'll fold like a cheap lawn chair when the GOP turns its full arsenal on him.
It turns out that both accusations have a grain of truth in them, but there's a lot of less-than-true stuff in them as well.
Let's look at Senator Clinton first. Their initial votes on the war aside, the records of the two Senators are fairly similar in many ways, and both of their records are infinitely better than that of John McCain.
It is true that Senator Clinton has consistently performed worse than Senator Obama in head-to-head matchups against various Republicans, especially Senator McCain, over the past few months, including in the latest Time poll. A recent CNN poll also found that not only does Obama have the overall advantage over McCain, men are more likely to vote for Obama than they are for Clinton.
It is also true that of the four candidates still standing -- herself, Obama, McCain and Huckabee -- she has the highest negative ratings. In fact, a Gallup poll done in May of last year had her negative ratings numbers three points higher than her positive ratings numbers -- and explained that the negative numbers had gone upwards over the course of her campaign. A later Gallup poll in August showed that her negative rating was still two points higher than her positive rating. However, Rasmussen polling in October had her negatives receding and her positives growing. Besides, her husband Bill had a 49 percent negative rating in an August 1995 Pew poll and went on to pound Bob Dole into the dirt the next year. (To be sure, it helped that Dole's campaign was seriously underfunded compared to President Clinton's; the Republicans vowed never to let that happen again -- which is why George W. Bush steamrollered his primary opposition by raking in over $37 million by July of 1999, nearly a year and a half before the general election and over a year before the nominating convention in September of 2000. This was an unheard-of amount at the time; he wound up spending $193 million in the 2000 elections.)
The Clinton fans pooh-pooh the polls, and point out that Obama has had a relatively easy ride from the press so far -- but if he wins the nomination, the easy ride will come to an abrupt and vicious end. The Republicans and their media allies will find a way to apply "The Clinton Rules" to any Democrat and slime even the cleanest persons. Al Gore is the perfect case in point.
As David Brock points out, before Gore was tapped to be Bill Clinton's running mate he had a squeaky-clean "Boy Scout" image. Gore's straight-arrow reputation was used in fact to counter the growing Arkansas-Project-fueled perception of sleaze surrounding Bill Clinton, including the "bimbo eruptions" that had already started happening. But then the media went to work against Al Gore, calling him a liar when he wasn't, attacking him constantly, in a years-long campaign that Bob Somerby dubbed "the War on Gore".
But the media and political landscape that existed in 1992 doesn't exist now. This blog you're reading is proof of that.
During most of the 1990s, the Clintons had a tough time fighting back because there literally were no US mass media orgs -- aside from the then-Cowles-owned StarTribune, whose publisher didn't cower in fear every time a Republican raised his or her voice, and who had Tom Hamburger doing stellar work on the political beat -- that were willing to debunk the crap being spewed by the Arkansas Project and its willing media servants like Jeff Gerth and Michael Isikoff.
Then the left-liberal presence on the Web finally came of age with Salon, just in time for the Blue Dress phase of CoupGate (aka The Hunting of the President), and which may have helped save Bill Clinton's presidency. The blogs followed a few years later, and their impact started to be felt soon; Atrios made his blogger bones by pointing out, as Krugman would note, the hypocrisy of the news media going into Faux Ballistic Outrage Mode over Rick Kahn's speech at the Wellstone event at Williams Arena, and their initial days-long silence over Trent Lott, a little over a month later, telling America during a eulogy for Strom Thurmond that we'd all be better off if Mister Segregationist had beat Truman in '48. This media silence ended only when lefty bloggers like Atrios made a point of hammering away at this story until Big Media finally took belated notice. As Atrios said at the time, he didn't expect to succeed as Lott had a history of making blatant appeals to bigotry that never cost him politically because the mainstream press didn't make a big noise. Not this time.
Now, there's an active and vibrant lefty web presence, both in blogs and in general websites, even though the left doesn't get the subsidies and "wingnut welfare" that the righties do. Furthermore, neither Obama nor Clinton will be like Kerry in 2004 and let themselves be slandered. (Though to be fair to Kerry, he'd been advised to keep his mouth shut on the liars attacking him; he apparently wanted to go after them hammer and tongs.) Obama has in fact emulated the 1992 Clinton-Gore campaign's "rapid response" program to counter various attacks on him.
Neither candidate is a shrinking violet; even before entering the White House as First Lady, Hillary Clinton went through the muck of Arkansas politics as a frequent target of her governor husband's enemies. (Arkansas politics is so nasty that the Clintons had initially been relieved to trade the Governor's Mansion for the White House, thinking that they'd already seen the worst it was possible to throw at them. Little did they know.) And of course, Barack Obama spent two decades in Chicago-area politics, which isn't exactly beanbag either. I don't think either candidate is going to be doing much in the way of pearl-clutching over the next few months.
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Zed!
We are supporting Obama. But will support the nominee of our party. Regardless.
All around the blogosphere!
pearl-clutching
hmmmm
Good evening, everyone!
Sorry for the disjointed nature of the post — it looked a bit different originally, but WordPress ate most of it and I had to redo it from scratch.
How is everyone tonight?
PW!
Sorry Doc!
Hillary Clinton: “I have experience”. That may be the problem, Senator.
well, close.
now off to read another excellent pw post!
and remember, your candidate sucks = as does hir opponent(s).
Are you thinking of a ZZ Top song, Raven? ;-)
Well. . .if the jewel fits!
Hello, Dr. Kirk! How’s lovely Cali?
Obama inspires. Clinton desires.
Raven. there’s no one I’d rather see hold the zed!
Hi PW!
I thought Mercury turning anterograde was supposed to help - but sounds like not so much.
I cannot and will not get in anymore big heated discussions tonight.
Same here but I’m trying to push them both further Left. I think that Hilary since she is behind in the polls might be more receptive to gong Left to get more votes.
However she insists on keeping Penn on the payroll. Regardless I want less gossip stories and more discussion about ideas.
(Responding from the end of the last thread) Hi, Kiddo & Lahoma!
Freddie Mercury? He was anterograde? Nooooo!
Yep, Obama as a ‘Sharp Dressed Man!’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_QCRGvT-g
I voted with Bush to attack Iraq. Vote for me. I’m Hillary Clinton and I approve of this ad.
Clinton voted to try to stall Obama’s initiative for ethics reform to make earmarks public. That’s a big difference.
How Obama defied Reid and got real ethics reform passed
Among those who agreed with Reid that most earmarks should be kept secret as to who sponsored them: Clinton
Senator Clinton went on the Senate floor the next day to utter three sentences about the vote:
That’s “Hooker Vitter” to be exact. Wide stances by a Senator to dumb to get a lawyer in early are suspect–but hookers as American as baseball, mom, and apple pie.
Tomorrow Night it’ll be a 10-0 streak; and Clinton needs 60% in every remaining state to win pledge delegates. For what they’re worth,polls don’t show her near that, and Texas polls are every which way.
Hi PW - we’re…well…cold for here. Nights foggy and in the high 40’s (shock!). But the hills are green and lovely white clouds were out playing in the sky today.
How’s your neck of the Lakes?
Hi PW, everyone. I disagree with you that the Obama and Clinton records are nearly the same. A bit ago I posted something on what legislation each of them had put in play. For Clinton alot of it was “naming things” for Obama there was alot of progressive initiative.
Also, in addition to the war (for my thing a key element), Clinton will have a much greater degree of animus from the red staters (assuming that she can actually beat McCain) and this will make it MUCH harder for her to get Congress to address a more progressive agenda.
Great post, PW! You said it best!
Or, if you’re a Republican and can’t spell and don’t have an editor and don’t have a proofreader, that would be “Blogoshere.” (You can’t make this stuff up, you know…)
The calendar shows Mercury going direct today but that’s the mid-point of a five day period of Mercury slowing down and then turning direct so in “reality” it still has another couple of days. And that’s compounded by the full moon/lunar eclipse on Wednesday. Things should smooth out a bit by Friday though. I hope.
Oh yeah? You wanna bet? I have a one-hour nap coming up, then after that we’ll see…*g*
I believe that John Edwards helped shove the Overton window left. Let’s keep pushing…
Actually, PW, I think this is a more apropo tune…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjiCa6iMnbo
Bush Dismisses Iraq Recession: The War Has ‘Nothing To Do With The Economy’
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/.....q-economy/
PW, great piece, but one little nit to pick in the spirit of accuracy. The Trent Lott remarks were at Ol’ Strom’s 100th birthday party, not part of a eulogy at his funeral.
Hi, PW! Nice post. I hope thafor the sake of the Democratic Party, that both Clinton and Obama will keep the internecine warfare on a decent level of civility, and not just provide ammunition for right-wing attacks in the general.
Oh, God…. it’s all my fault…. I didn’t shop hard enough, and I brought the entire economy down. I’m sorry.
She voted to stall making earmarks public; she voted to authorize Iraq; She voted for Keil Lieberman, and she voted against the Levin amendment and when she tried to explain it Levin said she had no clue as to how to read it after her expensive law school education and 3 year of law books.
She also intentionally distorted the present votes after growing up in Illinois and Saturday, her husband’s White House Counsel and a former Illinois legislator and D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals Judge and current University of Chicago law professor Avner Mikvah went to the op eds of the NYT to take her (and a FDL lawyer’s) distortion apart.
‘Present’ Perfect
I am sick to death of the Clintons.
Although to be honest, most folks couldn’t tell the difference…
I will be in the land of winkin blinkin and nod in about 40 minutes. If anyone posts and Ted Sampley shit I expect you to jump ugly!
That’s great, Marion. I missed the typo when I clicked over there earlier today. It’s shocking that the comments appear to be open. Alas, Nixon’s been dead so long and we have such a battle looming in the general election I just don’t have the energy for any mischief over there.
They are casing the Superdelegates and Michigan and Florida Delegates with a lot more intensity than Michael cased Soma on “Prison Break.”
They’ll grab them any way they can if allowed.
Obama. He’s the one.
Meanwhile, The New Republic’s Michelle Cottle is on Dan Abrams and she’s hot…talking about superdelegates…Huff Post’s Larry O’Donnell is around as well…
That thought occurred to me as well, after I hit “submit comment.”
*g*
Ah, 40 degrees. Haven’t seen that in, well, about two months now. (I think we had a brief flirtation with 40 last month, but then another cold snap set in.) No matter, spring is coming!
Yes and who could imagine a President so arogant as the Clintons who ran such an incompetent campaign. Obama has run a well organized coherent message and strategy. The Clintons have nothing to say. Be gone Clintons. Find your peace with the hedge funds and your celebrity vacations.
Are any of them talking about a do-over for Michigan and Florida? Ed Schultz was making a strong case for it Friday.
Oh, I’ll bet that the guys at Sadly, No may find a moment or two that they can spare from reviewing the Doughy Pantload’s opus!
It was the Kyle/Lieberman vote that really hurt. There’s no excuse for that.
Lets see now. You cut taxes. You spend $15,000,000,000 per month on war, but this has nothing to do with the monster recession that’s coming our way? Oh I get it. Voodoo economics. Don’t you just love Poppy?
Hi PW!
Two points.
While I completely disregard the National Journal’s Senate vote ranking, this one is highly respected, and seems pretty reasonable. Obama is 10th (tied with Biden), and Clinton 20th (tied with Harry Ried).
Also, the progressive blogosphere’s influence is still pretty indirect (Donna Edward’s victory might be changing that). But the media’s arrogance has become apparent to even Fox viewers. I think Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina can all be attributed to the populace saying “f**k you” to the media (at least as a major factor - otherwise, Edwards should have placed better).
Also I REALLY support Obama’s proposal for more open government by using C-Span. She seems to be more about closed government and secrecy.
There’s that durned DLC base again…!
Hell Yah! We are 70% we want the war over now. We want a better Healthcare plan than either of the Dems are proposing, but the MSM press keeps saying that we are too Left. We are the majority!
The GOP/Media complex is what it is.
They will gear up to go after whichever candidate the Democrats nominate, with both guns blazing and throwing every knife they can lay their hands on, along with the kitchen sink.
They will not be concerned with being accurate, only with being brutal.
They will not be concerned about the nation, only with their party.
They will not be concerned about any others who might be smeared and hurt along the way, only with taking down the Democratic nominee.
And they will not be doing any pearl-clutching along the way either.
Very, VERY incompetent campaign. Money thrown away all over the place, no oversight, bad choices for staff.
Don’t forget landmines / cluster bombs.
I think the country doesnt want to go back and the Clintons are back.
Hillary and Bill are a two-fer no matter what. Who could be a vice pres with these two.
And even though no one says anything, Bush Clinton.Bush,Clinton just isnt right.
True, but technically speaking she’s still wrong …
You just described their sense of Humor!
Come on Raven, get in the thick of things, a big squabble *g* - you can do it!
At least more of the public will be a little more aware of Super Delegates. By the way there are about 30 that still haven’t been named.
I belive Senator Obama is the one to lead this country out of the wilderness.
In Hill’s defense, I’ll attribute that to eight years+ of WH attention…!
Yay - hope daffodils come to fields near you soon, PW.
_ _ _
tangent time:
_ _ _
and now for some topic completely different:
I remember when paraphillias (assignment of …er… attraction ranging from intense to palpably erotic for [non-anatomical] inanimate objects) were classified as non-biological psych diagnoses - their cause ascribed to deep-seated intrapsychic conflicts.
Then it turned out that high dose range fluoxetine (in the same doses as used for OCD) made the paraphilia symptoms go away.
All of a sudden, a shoe was just a shoe - not a love interest.
A vehicle for taking us where we decide to go: not the physical manifestation of our wishes and desires.
Our tools, not our rulers.
Why I am hoping Denver is the new Prozac?
Yupper. In the eyes of the GOP and their media buddies, Bill Clinton’s real crime was winning the White House fair and square in 1992. Period.
I hit the rack at 10 and get up at 5:30.
Here are the real problems for we progressives.
WOLFSON/PENN/GRUNEWALD/BIGDOG/Lanny DAVIS
They just happen to be crafting Hillary.
Yes (yawn).
But they’ll pearl-clutch if a Dem responds.
This stuff doesn’t get the traction it used to.
I trust and believe in our new president. President Obama.
OT, this is outrageous:
And we were speaking of renting in the previous thread. I always had to pay mine, and leave the premises clean… Apparently for the Clinton campaign not so much.
They can’t seem to use Cognitive Dissonance in their humor. Perhaps because they can’t/won’t see all the Cognitive Dissonance in their own positions.
How’s your dog’s back doing?
Plus, we exist. And we will be fact-checking the GOP/Media’s asses from here to eternity.
OK, I finally have to come out and say this:
I have a 19-year-old daughter and 17-year-old son who will be voting for the first time in November. They both look like Obama, have tons of friends white and black who also will be voting for the first time. They’re also pretty popular kids, and what they’ve told me is this: that among their circle of friends, and in their friends’ parents” own circle of friends (the kids are often guests at their friends houses for the inevitable sleepovers and all that), they know of no one, no one, who is not voting for Obama.
That’s the report from the field of the younger end of the so-called millennial generation (those born between 1980 and 2000)…from the natives, so to speak…
I was at MSP airport the other day, on a short trip, and I was chatting with an elderly white couple flying home to Phoenix, AZ, and they said they were for Obama…
Somethin’s going on, that’s for sure. Americans seem to want change (whatever that might connote for each of us…)
Agreed, with one exception. I don’t think they care about being brutal - they’ll appeal to peoples’ prejudices and fears. The brutality is just the logical consequence.
Want change. Contrast Obama and Bush.
No, 1992 was a fluke — and they weren’t all that thrilled with GHWB. The real crime was that Bill beat Bob Dole in 1996.
On the Bus: Can John McCain reinvent Rethugs?
Sounds like my schedule, except a bit later both ways… zero dark thirty, as we say here!
Actually, no. Rachel Maddow’s joined them…Now they’re getting snarky. Michelle’s gushing for Obama…(’nuf said on this one): coz there’s a line I definitely will not cross here *g*
Hey, the dude needs viagra just to eat a pear. Of course it’s not what it used to be (if it ever was).
Obama will be our next Leader. ;0)
I believe that is an absolute… M’dear! *g*
Wow, this “plagiarism” charge of Wolfson’s is stupid, though, as it’s resulting in lots of speechifying by Barack on the evening newscasts, followed by Hillary’s “fired up–ready to go” and “Yes we can” copycat remarks. Seems like a boomerang to me so far, and Larry King appears to have picked up the negative reverse aspect of it as well.
I remain unconvinced that either Wolfson or Penn is a benefit to Senator Clinton.
Sorry my reply was not to Snowbird it was suppose to be in reply to me @ 59
Yep. Not brutal for the sake of brutality, but brutal for the sake of inflicting damage on the campaign.
Thanks for that ray of sunshine! After all the rain we had today I certainly appreciate it.
What is always funny is that all of these “plans” like Health Care are argued about as if they wouldn’t be refractred through Congress.
I have a deep-seated, visceral hatred for Hillary, not because she’s a “god-damn liberal,” I’m more liberal than she is, but because of her voting record on the war and a lot of idiocy in general. I think she’s been a perfect clone of Joe Lieberman for most of her Senate career. Her idiotic video game bill was one of the worst-conceived attention-getting ploys in modern political history and of course, her “It Takes a Village” bullshit is utter anathema to any thinking childfree person.
While I WILL vote for her if she’s the nominee, it will be the biggest case of “voting for the lesser of who cares” (Hat tip to Aaron Sorkin) in my 36 years of voting.
I’m hoping Obama can win Wisconsin and Ohio, because it looks like HRC will win Texas.
I SO do NOT want Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic nominee. If she is, we can all get used to saying “President McCain,” and being in Iraq for a helluva lot longer.
That’s my experience, too. In fact, no “cult” phenomena at all. It’s just assumed.
Seems ok, I stopped giving her the rimadyl because she has shown no discomfort at all since the incident. I am still pushing her a couple of miles in the stroller in the morning. I really was to get a grip on her paw chewing/sucking. She is on Dinovite and sweet potato and herring hippie california dog food but not much change. I keep thinking it has some emotional component because when I hold her she stops going after her feet and falls asleep. More info than you needed huh?
thx
The media, complicit and corrupted, will turn on a dime to try and take down Obama, just as quickly as they put him on a pedestal. Media pundits/celebrities, many with 7 figure salaries, are only interested in preserving the positions of power and priviledge. They are purveyors of the status quo rather than fair minded representatives of the 4th Estate. McCain, always a media darling, is the candidate of the status quo. The media will frame and skew their coverage to put him in the best light while at the same time treating Obama the way they treated Gore in 2000. The sooner Americans can throw off the yoke of a media that is duplicitous the sooner Americans can honestly say they have a free press.
Tut, tut, Teddy, they’re a hindrance, period…! ;-)
My God you get more sleep than I do. And I thought people our age are supposed to need fewer hours of sleep 24/7…Oh, I get it, you have some help and I don’t. Now that’s the difference…*g*
My Tennessee friends and family members are no doubt cringing at that comment.
But one of these days, someone’s going to drag that state senator into the 20th century, kicking and screaming.
O’Donell at Dan Abram’s said that neither Hilary’s or Obama’s plan will be enacted? Did he just hint that a fix is in?
What’s the case fpr tje do-over? All parties agreed to the plan.
Hi there, everypup!
Can’t stay long, just want to say I like your article, PW, and one more thing –
I think a tidal wave of support is growing for Obama. And I think the general “American public” is so cynical about the GOP that their disgusting smear attempts (which will follow as sure as night follows day) will work about as well as their disgusting Terry Schiavo antics. WHOEVER our candidate will be.
What kind of help? I’m sober as a frickin monk and have been for years.
Ah Wolfson:
Chris has drunk deeply from the Beltway Koolaid Kooler…!