Hi, Jane! This general election is gonna be uggggly.

Pandering Pawn

I love it, Jane!

Oh, no comments? And I even read the whole article! Hey Jane.

…size may not be all it’s cracked up to be.

It’s not? ;-)

Heh, you wish! Congrats, Physio!

But you hafto admit, McCain’ll look more commanding striding around in a flightsuit than Hillary will. If Hillary wins, she’ll have to invent a whole new look for dominant power – the female equivalent of a codpiece. I’m thinking something from a Wagnerian opera – like those conical breastplates and a Viking helmet?

Comedy Ninja Chins!

Hi Jane!

I’m thinking something from a Wagnerian opera – like those conical breastplates and a Viking helmet?

lolz

well, you’re not going to believe this, on news radio today they show mccain only 7 points behind hillary or obama in the state of new york

now that is frightening, that new york, who NEVER votes for a republican is going to be close to mccain

imagine what the states that aren’t as blue are gonna do

this poll is very unsettling to me

Ninjas!?!?!? Where!!!111

Why does this toothy, wrinkleless, photo of McCain so remind me of the McCain that isn’t there, as I see him? When you see him on TV, he isn’t anything like this moment captured in time. It might be his best photo, but will it stand up over an election cycle?

conical breastplates and a Viking helmet

cool, i’ll vote for that.

I find reassurance in the fact that the Dem turnouts have dwarfed the Repug’s numbers virtually across the board in all the primaries/caucuses held to date! My State’s Dem caucuses are preparing for record numbers tomorrow nite…!

I still think the caption of the photo should be (”Oh God, I hope I didn’t just sh*t my pants with that f*rt”)

ABC continuing its over-the-top anti-Obama bias tonight on Nightly News…just in case Kurtz needs a sequel for next Sunday’s Reliable Sources. Words have meaning and ABC mis-uses them again today to fan flames.

Advice to journalists: “IF you are going to embed on the Straight Talk Express, try to maintain a little objectivity.

Well you have the absolute beauty of all that is, and then someone like this opens her mouth and rains on the parade, seems to be SOP these days(years)-not mine honey

Of course that is so, because for 10 years the mainstream media has offered up this narrative. John McCain is a ‘war hero’ who has been ‘tested’ ‘moderate’, a ‘maverick’, he ‘bucks the party’ and he ’stands up for what is right’. He’s a ’straight talker’ who ‘tells it like it is’.

The above sentence should be read with the voice of Chris Farley as the narrator in mind.

Let’s not forget the economy is in full tank and the war is looking dicey as always. So once the Democrats start beating the the Third Term drums…… hopefully sometime in late August after the long bloody primary where Obama has proven Hillary is shown to be an icy racist and Hillary has shown Obama to be a slick plagiarizer the Democrats should be in great shape to define McCain.

-G

Because he shot his entire upper head with botox and can no longer squint or wrinkle his forehead?

I’m torn between thinking the doctor overdid it or that’s just the Arizona aesthetic embodied by his wife.

But, if they did maintain a modicum of objectivity, they’d end up under the tires of the express bus…!

Those quickest to brag about their manliness often have little of it. Lizza doesn’t seem to bother asking whether McCain pitches or catches, figuratively and politically speaking, just that he’s big.

Pity that the New Yorker is going the way of Sulzberger’s NY Times: both seem to tremble in anticipation of what the big Australian will do with his new sissy, the WSJ. Attentive people already know what he’ll do; combating it demands a louder and more articulate progressive voice, not bending over and holding one’s ankles.

So once the Democrats start beating the the Third Term drums…… hopefully sometime in late August after the long bloody primary where Obama has proven Hillary is shown to be an icy racist and Hillary has shown Obama to be a slick plagiarizer the Democrats should be in great shape to define McCain.

I am getting very disturbed by the internecine warfare. It’s going to all cancel out in the primary, but give Repubs a big fucking cudgel for the general.

We’ll those that do better by a lifetime supply of KY jelly

Jane, I think that’s my all-time favorite photo of John McCrazy. He’s the geek who caught the football in the game by mistake and now thinks he can boss the whole entire school around…

The Truth About St. John McCain

I’d appreciate a cease fire in the circular firing squad…!

If Botox Boy wins the White House, I’m swearing off politics and moving to Sweden or Denmark.

I wonder if the candidates themselves think this shit is a good idea, or if it’s over-zealous “advisors”.

What about the POW’s and MIA’s Senator McCain???

Please please please. Ted Sampley is the most vile scumbag on earth.

that’s what i said about Bush in 99 :/

this is the fawning of the age of (f*ck!) weary us

That’s comparable to my plans and distance, Hawaii to Nova Scotia…! ;-)

Ryan Lizza always looks–and always acts–like a wimp anytime I see him with Tweety or Tucker on MSNBC…

Hi Jane…Good early evening to you…

Obama’s sister on CNN now.

The candidates still have power jobs in Washington next year no matter what happens.

I’m saying campaign staff.

Well, with Penn still at the helm… I wonder…!

Meanwhile, Roger Stone is on said Tucker now laying out Rethug f*ckery for Obama in the fall…of course this implies they have written off Hill(ary)…

Oppose McCain for his stance on the war in Iraq not this bullshit put out by these maniacs. Goddamn!

When will the media ask McCain how he intends to pay for this war? We on the other hand need to tell the American people that we will only raise taxes on the rich TO PAY FOR THE WAR which we plan to end.
Income and expense McCain will keep the war going and not raise taxes so the question is what government spending programs will he cut? What Government program is big enough to cut to pull us out of the Bush deficit?
SOCIAL SECURITY!
We need to force McCain to deny that he will cut Social Security. We need to force him to explain how privatizing Social Security will magically pay for the war.
McCain might not officially be for privatization YET but what else can he cut? We need to expose his after November surprises before he becomes President.
Not that I think he will win but we need to hit the GOP before they try again.
We should work now while were strong to discredit every GOP idea.

That is amazingly sad, for the two soldiers then, and us now.

Oppose McCain for having abandoned his military service record to become a Bush toady.

Gotta love it: Tucker hosting Roger Stone, a guy who literally pimps out his wife. Wonder if they’ll bring it up?

When will the media ask McCain how he intends to pay for this war?

Particularly for the next hundred years, and, if he’d finally include it into the actual budget…

Yeah you can already see the worm (Kurtz) beginning to turn. We’ve now entered the second cycle. A build up is no fun for the media unless it is followed by a vicious tear-down.

I heard him asked. He said things would get better and then the war would be less expensive. George Steph asked him. No follow-up.

We need to get the Press to ask McCain what he would do to the war profiteers who sold all those defective helmets. We need to ask him what he would do as President if his State Dept gave KBR the DNA evidence in a rape trial that their workers did.
We need to push a wedge between either the GOP war Profiteer wing and McCain, or the American People and McCain.
Divide and Conquer!

There is a bogus story floating around about Larry Carrigan, Jane Fonda, torture of POWs, death of POWs, strips of paper, notes given to Jane, etc. I just thought you should know that this is all bull crap propagated by someone for some unknown purpose….probably to bolster some hate against the traitorous witch. I’m not defending her, we all hate her as much as the next person, but you need to get your stories straight. Jerry Driscoll is my Secretary/Treasurer. I just talked to him. Same for A.J. Myers. They had nothing to do with the article attributed to them. They ask that we get their names off that bunch of crap. Tonight I talked with Larry Carrigan. He asked that we get his name off all that crap as well. He never left a room to talk to anyone like that. No torture or beatings to see Fonda. He was living with Bud Day, John McCain and a bunch of hard nosed resistors during the Fonda visit…lots of witnesses if you want to question him (or them). Larry was never near Jane. There were never any POWs killed on account of Jane. (Did anyone ever provide a name of one of these tortured fellows?) That story about the notes has a nice theatric touch, but no such thing ever happened. The only ones who met with Jane willingly, to my knowledge, were CDR Gene Wilber and LCOL Ed Miller. One NAM-POW was forced to go before the Fonda delegation. And I think that was only to sit at a table for a photo opportunity. I doubt he even got a chance to talk to her let alone slip her a note. To my knowledge, the worst that happened to the rest of us was that we had to listen to the camp radio (Radio Hanoi and Hanoi Hannah) with the Fonda propaganda. It pissed us off, but I doubt you can call that “torture.” So, if you get a chance to SHUT THIS STORY DOWN to the groups who are forwarding it, PLEASE DO SO. You can cut and paste this paragraph is you want to. Doubters can come to me if they need to. Mike McGrath,

If the media did ask, they would then dutifuly report on the magic of how tax cuts always raise revenue.

Next, the false stories of John McCain’s conduct. Again, there are false stories floating around the net about McCain. He was never missing from our group for six months. He never co-operated with the enemy. We have dozens of us who lived with and around John for his entire time (10-26-67 to 14 March 73). Larry Carrigan, for one, lived with or near both John and Ted Guy. Larry says Ted would never make the statements which are being attributed to him …and Ted can’t set the record straight because he is dead. We have dozens of roommates who will vouch for the loyalty and courage and conduct of John McCain. Here is a more accurate story: John had both arms and at least one leg badly hurt on ejection. He was bayoneted near the groin by a soldier as they were pulling him from the lake. After three days of interrogations and no cooperation, he was near death. They found out his father was Admiral McCain. They stopped the interrogations, gave him medical care, brought in a French reporter (with camera), and let him make a statement to his family that he was alive and would recover and come home. After laying off the rough stuff, and trying to get John to cooperate by the “good guy” treatment for a couple of weeks, they got pissed off that he would not give information or cooperate. So, they threw him in a cell with Bud Day (MOH recipient) and Maj Norris Overly. McCain was in danger of dying from maltreatment. Maj Overly had to nurse both men back to health. From that point on, McCain resisted just as hard as any other POW. He went through the same interrogations and treatment. His roommates can testify to his valor and patriotism. In short, I think that the slanderous reports by faceless people (and some are attributed to Ted Guy…which I doubt are true) are from the bunch who are really pissed off that McCain made a political decision to back Clinton when Clinton decided it was time for “normalization” of diplomatic and trade relations, and it was time to have Ambassadorial level representation. To many, that made John a traitor. To most, it was just a political reality. It opened the door to better cooperation for a host of areas, including a full accounting of the POW/MIA issue (which is still an ongoing issue today. We have 2,060 yet to account for). If you want to get the straight story on McCain’s conduct, please contact his roommates. Start with the Honorable Orson Swindle at ( OrsonIII@aol.com ). Thanks for helping shut down these Phony stories. Again, you can copy this paragraph if it will help. Mike McGrath, President of NAM-POWs.

What was the Obama smear on ABC?
And speaking of tv news, I must have dreamt that there was an attack on the Baghdad airport because I haven’t seen anything on it since this morn.
Anyone else see anything? It’s not on the news websites either.

Who’s he?

Is he one of the Swiftboat mooks?

-G

Yea, he has a concession stand next to the Wall, he is really fucking nuts. This afternoon we had people dissing the troops for being “low IQ” now this. I’m gettin a bit annoyed.

Hmmm… the ole ‘rising tide will float all boats’… Hasn’t that boat left port already? ;-)

There was an attack near the airport…a woman suicide bomber…2 or 3 people killed. It’s on google news.

And who thinks that the MSM didn’t foresee something like this when they refused to cover Edwards’ campaign, Edwards, who defeated every Republican by the widest margins of any Dem. The fix has been in for a good, long time, and it is going to be short, tough fight to upset their applecart.

Just remember the The McBush Corruption Cover-Up of Jack Abramoff.

St. John McBush has suppressed a literal mountain of evidence—over 750,000 pages of documents related to Jack Abramoff.

Sampley

A former Green Beret with multiple Bronze Star awards from Vietnam, Sampley has the outward appearance of the stereotypical downtrodden veteran outfitted by the local Army surplus store. But he is in fact a savvy businessman who is forth- right about earning money off “the cause” and is a key figure in the MIA issue.

Unlike his colleagues who uncover POW “evidence” and solicit funds to embark on rescue missions, Sampley specializes in media manipulation and public relations. He has been invaluable to the activists, who rely on him to fan the flames of existing MIA stories, either through phone calls to legitimate journalists or on the pages of his own newspaper broadsheet, U.S. Veteran News and Report. In addition to his work in support of fellow activists, Sampley specializes in orchestrating stunts that are dramatic and at times dangerous.

You know that it is only going to get worse. That is what these fucking wars do.

Bush has been so fortunate to have a media that is almost wholly in the tank for him.

Just what do you think would be going on in the US if the media was half of what it was during Vietnam?

-G

And you guys know, that Botox stuff can travel in the body and in some cases can kill you. Not so smart!

There are those who will find this unbelievable, but here goes: I spend a huge amount of my time with people who are non- or minimally political, and the general impressions these people have of the candidates, IMHO, are going to make John McCain a very dangerous opponent in November, and probably the best possible candidate the R’s could have fielded. People are going to vote for McCain because he is a war hero, talks tough, and is not as stupid as Bush. He will be seen as a much safer vote than HRC or Obama.

I’m truly disappointed that I won’t be able to caucus for Edwards tomorrow nite…!

I feel like we are in the Truman movie…everything seems real and normal…but it’s not.

o that how he got to be GOP front runner! *g

So much safer.

An unadulterated warmonger.

1972 baby.

-G

George Orwell must be spinning in his grave…!

A post on this comment and your comment at 51 would be a good way to get the word out.

Thats actually a state secret! perpetual source of energy.

Yea, Helberstam, Sheehan, Schell, Hersch. . .

OT – but election related. I just posted down below a primitive time line on the Lamont-Lieberman support stuff (of importance to some in selecting a Dem candidate). Since Jane is here – and alot of the Big Dog FDLers too, I thought I would repost it here so you can correct it. Mods: feel free to remove this if too off topic:

I think the time line (if accurate) makes a clear distinction between how Obama and Clinton were addressing Lamont’s campaign.

Lamont officially announced during March, 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ned_Lamont).

On March 31, 2006, Obama, on the stage with Lieberman, announced his support (http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/04/02/164/90446).

In July Biden, Boxer and Salazar all campaigned for Lieberman; Schumer and Reid pledged support to him as well (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/05/AR2006070501143.html).

On July 17, Bill Clinton makes it known that he is supporting Lieberman’s Iraq stance (http://flapsblog.com/?p=3042).

In late July, Bill CLinton announces he will campaign for Lieberman, which he does along with Boxer, Lautenberg and Inouye.

By August, however, many others of the Democratic leadership are supporting Lamont (including Reid, Schumer, Kerry, Fengold, Bayh Dodd, Feingold and Pelosi) – http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI…..ndex.html.

During this same August period, Bill Clinton is allowing Lieberman to use his name (and support) in publicity ads.

August 26, Hillary says she will help raise money for Lamont,offering him $5,000. Dan Gerstein is skeptical about Hillary’s level of support for Lamont, saying she will not appear with him (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/26/nyregion/26lieberman.html)

October 27 – Obama is urging voters to rally behind Lamont (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/27/ap/politics/mainD8L0MB280.shtml
{However I would have loved for Obama to come to Ct. and do a big splashy series of events for Lamont. Would it have helped counter Clinton’s impact? I Don’t know]

Late 2007/early 2008 Lamont comes out in support of Obama not Hillary!

I think the important thing about the Fonda piece is that the dudes who were there don’t want shit that didn’t happen to be the focus.

…and is not as stupid as Bush.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that, I personally think his being the offspring of two Admirals allowed him to eke out graduation from Annapolis… He finished in the bottom 5 of his class… I think even Shrub received better grades…!

Remember. The Pukes hate McCain. They chose him, because they think his military and torture history makes him untouchable.

Good lord. What is wrong with people that they make this shit up — do they not realize that there are people who had to live through this who can call it out for the lie it is? Or is it the same false equivalence hope of the asinine Swiftboater idiots, hoping it catches on with a segment of the media that doesn’t bother to check its facts at all?

Yup.

Rachel is airing Fiore’s ‘Spies who love you’… ;-)

Not just the portion of the media that doesn’t check it out but the public.

From the link above by John @ 30…John McCrazy got out of Vietnam, but many POWs/MIAs did not…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CazKanlYDg

Sick! And this man thinks he’s qualified to run America? Hell, he can’t even listen to a sister whose brother is MIA in Vietnam without running off like a big baby for crying out loud!

ruh-roh… I think Michelle Obama just stepped in it… made some sort of statement that “this is the first time I’ve been really proud of my country”… sorry, no ref – saw it on tv…

I wonder if the press will ask McCain if he will refuse political contributions from companies that are accused of war profiteering or HAl and KBR because of the rape accusations? The embarrassment to Darth and the White House would be hilarious.
That and I wonder if Darth will campaign for McCain?
Or will Bush campaign for McCain before an audience that is not prescreened loyal Bushies?

I give up, this is unreal bullshit.

This says it all:

http://video.aol.com/partner/h…..bfyotpe4ZZ

OK

Yeah, I know. I’m certain my FIL and my dad will get it from their vet buddies at some point or other. SIGH People who deliberately lie like this seriously piss me off. As if people who were held in captivity under those conditions need some lie to deal with on top of the truth of what happened to them. Jeebus, that’s disrespectful on so many levels.

And who thinks that the MSM didn’t foresee something like this when they refused to cover Edwards’ campaign, Edwards, who defeated every Republican by the widest margins of any Dem. The fix has been in for a good, long time, and it is going to be short, tough fight to upset their applecart.

hard to find words more true then that, we have picked the two candidates that the republicans have a chance against

it is unbelievable we have been this irresponsible, just unbelievable

Another Gentleman’s C President Noooo! Give me a community college President who earned their grades without Clout, Pull etc.

Ane we have some FDL regulars who are spreading this by postinf this, I better be cool or I have to get moderated.

Or maybe a beard like Hatesphut?

Dangerstein is an authority?

Sent Lou Dobbs all atwitter too!

Hey Raven, congratulations on being president of NAM-POWS! Good proactive work on your part.

Raven, I’m sorry….is the ‘bullshit’ you speak of about McCain or is it that we here at FDL are not putting him in the positive light he deserves? Sorry, but I’m a little confused by your comment at the moment. ;-)

If they didn’t know anyone involved, they would have had no way to check it out. I’m sure once they’ve seen what you are saying – knowing your background with the vet community — they’ll understand that spreading it is inaccurate, to put it mildly. Deep breath — reading the comments takes a bit to catch up sometimes. You post a note, and a response to it is several comments down by the time you realize you have posted something potentially inaccurate, you are another twenty comments or so from there.

I think the reason he and Bush hate each other so much is that they essentially are each other, only McCain’s got the macho cred Bush pretends he has and Bush got the unearned ascenscion McCain figured he ought to have been handed.

Loo Hoo, you just answered my question I had to Raven! I see now…the “bullshit” is McCain and his disgusting behavior over the years when it comes to POWs/MIAs still in Vietnam. Nevermind. LOL ;-)

whatever that was, it sure didn’t come out right…

You are right, I just did a rough quick and dirty, hoping for feedback. I would remove that entry, if I could. It might be elsehwere too, however.

Excellent point! However, Pappy seems to be on board the straight talk express…!

I still think the caption of the photo should be (”Oh God, I hope I didn’t just sh*t my pants with that f*rt”)

“Actually”, as my 5 year old granddaughter would say, I think he has a “wedgie”. (g)

Start back here.

It’s about this Ted Sampley/League of Families crap and the youtube link you posted. McCain’s stance on Iraq is ridiculous. It also has nothing to do with the poison these people are spreading. I don’t give a fuck if they go after Kerry or McCain with their bullshit, it will be challenged and I’m doing it.

“So the partisans on the left cheering Feingold appear to have both the policy and the politics wrong.”
Partisans uhh we are the 70% majority thank you.
We are the Majority that is to the left of our own Presidential candidates on bringing the troops home Now, Healthcare at least as good as Freakin Cuba has, the Environment etc.
Its our MSM Press which is injecting their bias into the media.

We will beat you John McCain. Soundly. Now I have to fix supper.

Surrounding the MIA issue is a number of individuals and groups who claim that the US government knowingly abandoned men who were known to be held by the Vietnamese (or the Laotians, or the Cambodians, or others). These people further claim that the government has conducted a monstrous cover-up of these abandoned POWs. In spite of a mountain of evidence that such cover-up-and-conspiracy theories are groundless, the tales persist.

At the core of the cover-up-and-conspiracy theory is a small number of people who generate phony stories, pass along phony stories, attack government officials, con families, publish newsletters, publish worldwide web pages, hound members of Congress, and do everything else they can to promote their theories. Some of their antics are laughable but, for the most part, these people are shameless and their antics are despicable, preying on the emotions of families of missing men and promoting themselves. Some — former POW “Red” McDaniels, former Congressman Billy Hendon, and Ted Sampley — have made nice livings from their phony stories. Others have made themselves into minor heroes with their nonsense — former Army Major Mark Smith, former Army Lieutenant Colonel James “Bo” Gritz.

Susan Katz Keating was a reporter for the Washington Times newspaper. She was a believer in the cover-up theory. She started collecting information for articles — interviewing families, interviewing the people who spread the claims, and interviewing government officials. She came to realize that those spreading these stories, claiming to be working for the families, were charlatans and frauds. In this book, Ms. Keating details the antics and the phony stories that continue to haunt the MIA issue.

In response to Ehrenstein47 @ 26

That is amazingly sad, for the two soldiers then, and us now.

I read the above and then my reaction.
Now you have cleared this up for me, I didn’t believe the above having heard it months ago but reluctantly believed it and thought if true, was very sad, which shows me how easy it is to be influenced and one more time I learn a lesson I should already at my age have down pat.
Thank you, you have done me a huge favor and I appreciate it, although I don’t like the feeling I have self induced by my foolishness.

I get it now, Raven. I went upthread to read what you had written. Oopsie.

The link that I posted I of McCain not listening to Delores Almond and then walking out…are you saying this video isn’t real and that McCain really wasn’t shutting Delores and others out?

McCain came out recently and said he’s for torture as long as the CIA is doing it (or something to that effect). What do you think of this? To me, that is bullshit!

Tweety said Chimpy’s getting a lot of questions about Obama in his African winter safari, from people saying, “How’s our brother Obama, you know he’s from Africa…”

Oh boy…No matter who the Dem nominee is, there are plenty of stock and cliche (historical) narratives waiting to be tapped and exploited. MSM will have a field day between now an November, and they know that. People like Tweety, Andrea Mitchell, and Tucker can’t wait to get out of bed in the morning to go to work …They’re like parasites feeding on public bodies…

John McCain is simply a dotty old man without grace, wit or charisma and questionable memory of his contradictory & controversial war mongering as the majority of American voters increasingly want our troops out sooner than later. And this isn’t simply my view but clearly the consensus of thinking moderate and country club Republicans and majority of Democrats here, there and everywhere- you know – the ones who never fail to vote – who populate the wealthy enclaves among the central California coast, northern CA and southern CA as well as the central valley.

Am just saying it will be a rout for the Democrats regardless of whether the victor is Hillary or Obama emerging with the nomination in Denver., IMHO.

Thank you. LOL I hadn’t realized this was a very sore subject for Raven and unfortunately I hadn’t read the entire thread first.

I just don’t trust McBush….I don’t know why.

No, I’m not saying the video is not real I am sayinig there is a whole lot more to it than just what is there. Again, hammer him for what he is, not for things that these lunatics have cooked up/

It’s got to be killing him. He wants to hand the show over to Jeb!, Jeb! loses in Florida; it goes to Junior, whose only qualification for it is “less incompetent than Neil” (he said about the election that it was like having your kid who was failing math all term come home with a 100 on his report card); then he tries to salvage whatever credibility his family still has in politics and throws in behind Mitt, and Mitt gets his ass kicked by another C student.

Well, at least he’s still rich.

Swiftboating was despicable when it was done against John Kerry and is equally despicable when thrown at McCain.

-G

Whew! I was just about to re-subscribe to The New Yorker for another year of the cartoons. Jane, thanks to you I now have an extra $49 in my wallet and more time on my hands.

Aren’t we making the same claims about the Bush Regime? I think it’s always a good thing to go after public officials to get to the bottom of any kind of “conspiracy” like this. Agree? I mean really, how does one prove a negative, meaning, if families do not have their loved ones today, but they’re not considered MIAs, then where are they?

Raven, I just try to put myself in the shoes of the families, that’s all. Honestly, I would go to the ends of the earth if my brother or son didn’t come home from there.

Said Ryan Lizza talking to Tweety now about his New Yorker article on McCain…

Here’s the thing. I have spent 35 years defending myself against the charge that those of us in the VVAW were liars and traitors. It subsided over time and then, with Kerry’s nomination, it reared up again. It’s the reason I continue to be wary of Webb, he views Vietnam as a noble cause and those of us who stood up as misguided at best. Does that mean if Webb runs for president I would stand by if people made up a bunch of bullshit about him? Hell no.

Yes, and did you see him in KayinMaine’s youtube? Wait till all of this comes out. No chance the republicans can win.

Worth remembering too that the same people who swiftboated McCain in ‘00 swiftboated Kerry in ‘04, and McCain didn’t exactly step up.

I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if given how the Limbaugh/Malkin/Coulter axis feel about him they’re not the same folks who are swiftboating him now, which would suck once again, but he hurt his ability to fight back by not being more straightforward about defending Kerry.

It would be nice if Kerry had something to say about this, just in hopes that we can establish in the public mind that decent people don’t do this sort of thing, but I expect if he brought it up they’d say he was smearing McCain by repeating it.

I’ve been doing that for years. The families of friends of mine who were killed and do not believe they died for nothing. You need to really research this issue if you care. There were more POW-MIA’s in WWII than total killed in Vietnam. The POW MIA movement has manipulated the families by giving them false hope.

I think what Raven is trying to say is that you need to be careful and use sources for information that are credible, and not in it to twist information to make a buck for themselves or to otherwise shade things so that their twisted version is told, whether or not it’s accurate. We found that a LOT in and around the Libby reporting we did, for example — and it often took us days or weeks even to substantiate rumors or innuendo that others threw out for various reasons as “fact.”

We had a policy of checking something through as many credible sources as we could rather than just running with the first thing out of the gate, and it saved us from jumping on some bad information several times throughout the coverage of the trial.

The same goes for McCain. He has enough dirty laundry without someone trying to make shit up about him — that just muddies the actual problems when people find out that something isn’t quite substantiated, so then how do they know if any bad information on McCain is true? How do they know that everyone isn’t just lying when they tell something bad about him? It’s an old Rove trick to throw out something false about his candidate, only to turn around and disprove it and then use it to discredit anyone who criticized from then on, even if it was legitimate.

Which is why promoting less than credible sourcing isn’t a good idea. Never hand the other side ammo that you don’t even need to use — becausee they’ll only shoot it back at you when you least expect it.

No, he did. Not very forcefully but that’s when he came out with the “The Vietnam War is Over”.

updated 1:51 p.m. ET, Thurs., Aug. 5, 2004
WASHINGTON – Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry’s military service “dishonest and dishonorable” and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

“It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me,” McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.

The Ugly side of St. John can readily be seen in his choice of judges. Janice Rogers Brown, for example, who was so over the top when on the Texas supreme court that even the whimpy Fredo Gonzales decried her for ignoring the law and inventing her own.

She has not improved, or read the law, since becoming one of Bush’s phalanx of federal appeals court judges. She is for St. John what Alito and Roberts are to Cheney and Addington. Not a judge, but a quisling for movement conservatives. St. John would take her as a model for all his appointments.

I just finished reading that Ryan Lizza article in its entirety, what a waste of time! Not one scrap of anything new or insightful about the candidate John McCain. At least it got Lizza a guest appearance on Hardball.

Where you been all day while I’ve been up to my ass in gators? :)

I was just disappointed that he wasn’t more forceful about it. I think we as a society have gotten very sloppy about making the equivalence that someone disagrees with me = they’re a bad person = whatever bad things I hear about them must be true.

I thought he was in a good position to take a stand on that, but I thought he could have done more.

It’s sad that it’s happening again.

Actually, he’s promised to appoint “Alito clones”

I agree

Now McCain is doing his own plagiarizing!

McCain’s past makes him a Neocon puppet!

“HHMmmFFFFffF !” ,says Lizza in response ,

with Mc Cain’s stinky peni , , , uhhh , foot inserted moistly in mouth .

Hey Raven

Is there some kind of dust up with the link I gave?

Don’t take anything I say or link to as gospel, because sometimes I don’t have time to vet everything I link to. I’m just a guy who sometimes links to an article or two

I just ran across that post a few days ago and didn’t have time to read it all or look at all the videos and I don’t think the person whose blog it is had time either (very high frequency of articles).

About blogs in general – most people have absolutely no idea how much time and effort goes into them. For Jane and Christy and all the others who contribute to FDL, one thing the readers of this site or any blog should know is that it takes an enormous effort to pull off day after day, every two hours or so to write something educational, entertaining and informative takes a lot of work because sometimes the words don’t come out the way you would wish. Sometimes you can be imprecise in your language, and sometimes you type something with a smile on your face, and because it is written, you lose half the message because inflection and body language can’t be heard or seen.

And about articles and reports, most reports aren’t 100% accurate, even the best ones aren’t that way, don’t take my word for it – take Richard Clarke’s word from Saturday’s book salon

I don’t know anything about the history of the people in the link and I have no back ground into any of the issues they raise; all I know are people of my older brothers and sisters generation who were called to do some things they didn’t want to and came back from SE Asia as you did, and faithfully to this day fly that black POW MIA flag right underneath the stars and stripes.

I’m perceiving a sense that you’re offended. No offense meant to you or those you know

Peace

Until there is a viable third party, we are stuck with our craven democratic party; the alternative is quite unthinkable. While the MSM is gearing up for its McCain love fest, the numbers of voters turning up for the democratic primaries is heartening. There is still hope.

On a different note, I found the following piece on democratic party identity politics by Matier & Ross in the SF Chronicle quite hilarious:

Clear the air: When it comes to Democratic politics, the old smoke-filled back room ain’t what it used to be.

For one thing, these days smoking would be banned.

Second, the back room would have to be accessible to people with disabilities.

And third, the California delegates to the Democratic National Convention are a far cry from the old, cigar-smoking powerbrokers.

Under new party rules, of the 441 delegates headed to Denver:

– 48 percent have to be women.

– 26 percent have to be Latino.

– 16 percent have to be African American.

– 9 percent have to be Asian/Pacific Islander.

– 1 percent have to be American Indian.

– 12 percent have to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

– 10 percent have to be under 30.

And filling the diversity bandwagon isn’t that easy.

“I’m always looking for people who can fit into two or three categories,” said state party Chairman Art Torres.

Take, for instance, state Sen. Carole Migden. “She’s – a woman, lesbian and white,” Torres said.

For bonus points, Migden is also Jewish, with a French mother, and lives with a lawyer partner of Basque-Bolivian descent. And if “blond” ever rates a category, Migden can fill that one, too.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..KV37PD.DTL

Ah, San Francisco!