It’s said that the genius of the American system as created by the founders is that it can survive incompetent, venal or malign office holders. The system includes checks and balances precisely so that the actions of any one or a few individuals can’t capsize it. In this it is superior to either monarchical systems or parliamentary systems (which have fewer checks – Prime Ministers are often very close to elected dictators).
There’s a fair bit of truth to the statement – or there was.
The Imperial Presidency. The founders relied upon the jealousy of prerogatives of the other branches of government. They gave the Senate significant checks on Presidential power, for example, and assumed that whoever was in power in the Senate would protect those powers even against a judiciary or president they agreed with because they would want to protect their own power even against their own. That has broken down – the Senate is only too eager to give up power, because when it gives up power its members also give up responsibility. It’s the calculus of electibility. When Congress gave up its oversight on war making, for example, it also gave up responsibility for how the war was played out.
More than that there is a sort of information war that has occurred between the Presidency and the legislative bodies. One of the findings of organizational theory is that a major source of power in a big organization is controlling who gets what information and when they get it. The Presidency has de-facto control of the information gathered by government and it uses it aggressively and denies it to Congress aggressively. It’s true that in theory Congress can get information but they have to go after it – much of it isn’t given to them automatically. Members of Congress not on the intelligence committee don’t automatically get intelligence info – even those on it are managed – the Presidency does. When they do demand information Senators and the Senate as a whole are often stonewalled by the executive. As such the Senate has authority over areas (war making is just one) where it lacks the information to make decisions. Easier then to just let the President make such decisions – which is what the President wants.
Executive power always increases in wartime. Presidents recognize this and have become adept at making everything into a war. You had “the cold war.” You had the “war on poverty,” you had “the war on drugs” and now you have the “war on terror.” None of these were wars in the formal sense – not even the Cold War. All were played as such to centralize power, information and decision making. A legislature cannot run a war – if the war is to be run effectively it must be run by an executive. And so they have been.
American success. The US was so rich that failure was unimaginable. Huge rivers of money could be diverted from productive uses to unproductive ones (military spending, prisons, pork of various kinds, subsidies) and yet the system could take it and would continue producing more money, more success, more good years and booms. It seemed America was unique – no matter what you did it continued to provide bountiful year after bountiful year. And in specific departments or organizations – if someone was put in charge who was unconcerned with the business and only wanted to send some money to his favoured causes; well the bureaucracy would work around him to get the mission done while funneling some money to his favoured causes. If he was outright incompetent it would likewise work around him and his appointees.
Bureaucracies and other big organizations have their own momentum. This is often bewailed by new governments, but it also has advantages. But while they do have momentum, they can be slowly steered and they have been. The most radical in recent memory has been the Bush administration, which has placed huge chunks of the federal bureaucracy under direct presidential control. The new “performance incentive” program coming on line is just part of that – a chance to control the high ranking bureaucrats by making up to a third of their pay bonuses – which means subject to review by political appointees every single year.
Likewise departments have been subject to purges. Both State and the CIA, for example, where the message has been “get in line, or get out.” People have been punished, in effect, for saying “uh, I don’t think that’s going to work.” They have been punished for putting their organization’s goals (gathering accurate intelligence for the CIA or having good foreign relationships for State) above the President’s goals (having intelligence that supports his agenda, or bullying nations into doing what he wants). In both cases, and many others (Treasury moving to lower duration securities to reduce short term borrowing costs is another) long term institutional goals and culture have suffered for short term political goals.
The sense is that no matter what anyone does the US will be rich and powerful. You can see it in the NeoCons blasé assumption that the US is the world’s only superpower and that there is nothing anyone else can do about it and that it will never change unless the US stops bullying other nations. It’s a breathtaking assumption that ignores the fact that superpower or great power status is always under girded by economic power.
The Gaming Culture In a system in perpetual surplus the way you get ahead is not by creating more surplus – it’s by diverting the surplus to your friends, family, supporters and yourself (usually through them). It’s the old question – make the pie bigger, or make your slice bigger? The answer for many years now has been to make your slice bigger. Government officials, appointees and elected representatives run government to give money and power to private interests. They then leave government to work for the private interests and then sometimes come back to government.
These people, and there is an entire large class of them, aren’t working to make America as a whole richer or more powerful. They are working to make their benefactors richer and more powerful. The math of it is simple – lets say you make up .01% of the American population and you can divert 1 million of income to yourself. Lets further assume that if America as a whole does worse you’ll lose income proportionally. How much would America have to lose for you to only break even on your diversion? Ten billion dollars. And that’s peanuts – people regularly write themselves laws that save or earn themselves billions – the cost to the American economy would have to be hundreds of trillions for it not to be worth it to them.
When economists such as Mancur Olson rail against special interests – it’s that math they have in mind. You can’t serve two masters is an ancient law and in Washington, in state capitals, in city halls – a large chunk, if not a majority, of political appointees and elected officials serve two masters.
And they serve the one who pays them most – best.
In large part this is because the consequences of failure aren’t obvious. I’ve long said that China has been playing a very bad hand very well, while the US has been playing a very good hand extraordinarily badly. In China not only, despite all the corruption, are there fewer special interests (yes, I know what I’m saying and yes I stand by it) but failure can’t be tolerated. They’re too close to the edge. Entire provinces are on the edge of famine. Entire provinces are under martial law. There is no room for incompetents – if you want to enrich your friends and family, that’s fine, but you’d better be sure you make the society and economy as a whole work – or else. You have to be able to play the political game but you also have to be able to actually do your ostensible job.
In the US that hasn’t been true for a long time. A politician only has to be able to play the game, not do his or her ostensible job. Most legislators don’t read the legislation they’re voting up or down except to ensure that their little piece favouring their donor base is in there. Most judges have their assistants write most of their decisions. Most executives don’t even review the budgets they submit for ratification except to be sure the pork they ordered to appease their paymasters is in.
As a result you have omnibus bills that are nothing but one piece of business ostensibly for the public good, with hundreds of tacked on bills serving someone’s interest –but not the public’s.
That’s simply the way business is done. It’s government for those who can loot it, by those who have been bought by those who can afford them.
And for a long time it sort of worked. The grunts doing the day labor wrote decent opinions, made the budget provide money where it was needed and so on. But by doing so, they were, effectively, getting in the way of even more money being fed out of the government to those who had paid to own government.
And so, step by step, they’re being bought, intimidated or purged. At one time only most of the elected reps and their direct employees were owned. Now the BLS, the CBO, the CIA – they’re all being taken over so they can serve their true masters – and if you don’t like it – you’re out.
No system is of such genius that it can survive both incompetence and outright looting. The problem is, that not content to merely loot today’s surplus, the looting has continued into tomorrow’s surplus. Borrowing against the future prosperity of America because today’s is not sufficient is the name of the game.
No society that is not led well over long periods can prosper. The US appears to be in the last frenzy of looting of Empire. The end days are nigh, the looting has extended to eating the seed corn and twenty years from now, seed corn gone, Americans will find that America is not unique and that the sun does set on every great nation. As usual they will have been destroyed from within by the home grown rats, fat upon the grain of their fellow citizens.
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Jonathan Tasini, “The Audacity of Greed: Free Markets, Corporate Thieves and the Looting of America”
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Chris Mooney, Unscientific America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes William Greider, Come Home America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Les Leopold, The Looting of America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Michael Huttner and Jason Salzman, 50 Ways You Can Help Obama Change America





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Today on Book-TV, Karl E. Campbell, an historian who wrote Senator Sam Ervin, Last of the Founding Fathers said that Watergate nearly broke the system. If Watergate nearly broke it, then W has broken it for sure, since he’s so much worse than Nixon. (Sad that I lived to see the day when a prez was much worse than Nixon.)
Ian,
The United States of America always has been an experiment.
The experiment has had as its goal building a better future (pardon my mixed metaphores).
The experiment has failed. Not suddenly, but in bumps since WW II.
The question in my opinion is, what comes next? Particularly considering the USA has an overwhelming military, which is fed resources by large global-oriented corporations, which see both people and natural resources as commodities.
I’m not optimistic, although I do think there will be future economic bubbles.
Thank you for this, Ian.
The people who observe that we’re eating the seed corn and are sounding the alarm? Being ignored. It can’t really be that bad, people think.
Sorry, I don’t buy it. Our system suffered far more serious shocks in the past, including the Civil War.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but you were born and live in Canada, correct?
Bush did break it. Congress has been castrated and the president has been gaining too many, frankly, unconstitutional powers.
The question is whether all the king’s men can put it back together again. I don’t think it’s impossible, but I also think it’s far from a sure thing.
America was at a fork in the road in 1972. One lead to a renewed sense of citizenship, decency, inclusion, compassion and respect for fellow man, the other down a long and dark path of greed, ignorance, arrogance, fear and lust for power.
We took the wrong road and we are reaching the destination at long last.
-G
Dayam, Ian, that was a mouthful! A most excellent post!
d
Even the Fourth Estate has been suborned by this Maladministration…
No one is King (or Queen) in this country…
when you end like this,
I sure wish I didn’t find your arguments so persuasive, Ian.
you always give us food for thought – heh.
And they were beginning to work the refs [Justice Department, judicial appointments].
I hope we have intervened sufficiently, and in time.
The civil war was a shock to a country with a healthy economy that was on the rise and still had much a continent to finish colonizing. Not comparable.
I am Canadian. As is often the case, such things tend to be more obvious to outsiders, though it’s not like various Americans haven’t said the same thing.
Oh, and the sun sets on every nation. The question for the US is only when, not if, as it was for every nation and as it will be for every nation. Anyone who denies this basic fact is operating in deep denial based on the myth of American exceptionalism.
Argument for direct public financing of elections. If I buy a hammer, it’s because I expect it to serve my needs. Same with a senator (pretending I have the money).
Second thought, Jerry Springer, on his Air America show, said that the power of the presidency arose from the fact that the only film of the JFK assassination was the Zapruder film. Now, the president is filmed every time he’s not in the bathroom. Then the networks have to use the film to justify the expense. So he commands daily attention, while Congress only talks.
If only one thing could be done to fix the US, I would agree that it would have to be fully public financing of elections.
To say that Watergate nearly broke the system, IMO, is hyperbole. Nixon and his cronies were working at the extreme of “known” American Politics. Once they were exposed, they were essentially neutralized by the political system.
The “Bushites” are way beyond any extreme of American Politics. Exposure has only increased their criminality. I never thought that I would see the current situation in my lifetime.
Hard to believe, isn’t it?
Great post (as usual, Ian)!
And who are the actual people who are going to put it back together again. There are no members of congress that can stand up like some did in 1972. Both Hillary & Obama are wedded to coporate welfare. (They say they aren’t but they both get huge donations from corps so only a naif would think they would turn their backs on their donors.)
The lefty blogs. Bwahahahaha.
So who?
Hell of a post, Ian.
I figured out how to spotlight (and did), now I’m going to figure out how to digg (and do).
I am an eternal optimist. Out of the nasty 1890s with Jim Crow and violence against workers, came the roaring and then the great depression. I think we can push back strongly against the facist oligarchy with a new president and congress. Look, Great Britain came back strong, and they have far fewer resources.
Some of the people who have trashed the system today got their start during Tricky Dick. Did you live through it? I did, and it wasn’t clear to me that the federal govt wasn’t broken beyond repair. Hyperbole knowing that it didn’t break, but not at the time, which is what I think the author’s point was. And it was followed by the worst economy in the post-WWII period to that date.
OT..But a little “comic” relief:
Howie Klein is relentless.
DWT
I assume you meant Great Britian after WWI or WWII. But they had U.S. help, and is now a shadow of its former self. What big power is going to help the U.S. out (China, I guess), and do you think that the U.S. outlook is analagous to that of the U.K.?
About a third of the Senate is reasonably progressive. The Blue Dogs in the House are down to about 50 members. Conservative democrats currently work with Republicans to control Congress. But they are in decline, especially in the House. It’s not over yet, the problem is that I think (as Stirling Newberry once said) that since disaster (Iraq, Katrina) has not been enough to stop the BS, that catastrophe will be required.
At that point there will be a period of real flux, and what comes out of it remains to be seen. It could be another FDR; it could be something much worse. America got lucky in 1932, you read accounts of the time by folks who were there and you realize it could easily have gone another, much worse, way.
27 years of stuffing the federal judiciary with
Federalist Society cultistsStepford juristshas seriously eroded the balance of powers.
Wow, Ian. Great post.
You know wghat they said, “Why change Dicks in the middle of a screw? Reelect Nixxon in 72!” My Mother shared that one with me.
Over the next five billion years, the Earth will be pulverized by numerous large asteroid impacts, but that doesn’t mean it will happen soon.
Bush has done tremendous damage, but I believe the forces in play that allowed this to happen are receding. The conservative movement succeeded through a huge propaganda effort that overtook and controlled the mass media. These same people also passed laws to allow for fewer people to control large media conglomerates. But just when they succeeded in that effort, along came the internet to blow it away. This process is still occurring, and those on our side will have to fight vigorously in order to bring a balance of power back, but I believe it is coming.
You are not an American. Which is fine. :) But I believe you are projecting your hopes onto reality.
‘evening, Ian. My applause for your continuing gift in making these issues easily comprehensible. A question: You are predicting a crash, and it does seem as if a traumatic contraction of the Empire is in the offing, and probably inevitably so…Is not a logical strategy to pursue a sort of “managed collapse”, a “soft landing”, as it were? How would this be done?
PS: I hope you’ll consider a future post, How to Survive the Upcoming Economic Collapse.
Thanks for the education.
I don’t see any FDRs around, do you?
What’s your point? Denial?
I also think that much of the radicalism and activism of the times offered to serve as a governor or as a valve to let off steam from the pressure cooker.
But now the masses have been so cowed, decadent, sedate and duped that they offer little push-back in unison and instead are blowing gaskets one by one in quiet desperation.
The nation has never been more ill prepared to respond to challenges.
-G
Just a question:
Who here thinks tomorrow will be better than today?
That’s true, and it is one model of post-Imperial America. Bear in mind though, that the post war years were very thin for the brits. I have a lot of British relatives around that age, and it was not pleasant.
Hollands/England — did pretty well after they lost Hegemony.
But there’s another model, and that’s Spain. It took them centuries to recover from the loss of their empire.
If the US liquidates its empire, or is forced to, as Britain was, I think things could work out relatively ok. Maybe even really well (the US is still a continental power after all). But if it tries to hang on too long…
LOL. Never heard that at the time. Thanks for sharing.
WOW Ian…
America is definitely off track because he started with a bunch of lofty democratic ideals and has been taken over by corporate and personal greed.
The government is supposed to BE the people, but it’s not even representing their interests, but the interests of the special people called corporations.
Corporations out grew the country and so they needed to operate without encumbrances and so they purchased the government and enslaved the people to consumerism and established a new form of slavery – credit. That enabled consumerism, and kept them working as serfs.
But profit was what they want for their owners and so profits they will pursue wherever and however.
And they have and taken America with them. They suck at the tit and drain it through military expenditures. they turn every endeavor into a for profit business, housing, health, education, security… it’s all about making money for the shareholder and the bankers.
America’s foreign policy is all about making the world safe for capital and corporations and human rights don’t even rate a foot note.
That’s how I see it.
Let’s have a do over. This one is going down pretty fast now.
Good point about activism, in the 70s, absent today.
digg Ian’s post.
mebbe postpone the inevitable with a little learning?
Just got here. Wow. What a buzz kill… Unfortunately every word Ian wrote is true, and the import is ominous. [Sigh.] I hope that at least the House remembers what it feels like to have a spine.
Tomorrow? yes, — next week? mebbe not so much.
Next month? well there’s always the lottery.
I was 30. Maybe I was/am naive but I didn’t/don’t feel that the basic structure of the American gov’t was threatened by Nixon or the Republican Party. Today, the criminal enterprise that calls itself the Republican Party may have destroyed the “American System” both political and economic.
Greg, the profession is poorer because you aren’t writing speeches for someone.
Actually, for all I know, maybe you are. They’d be lucky to have you.
What hopes? You’re quite mistaken if you think I want the US to go down. I write for the US precisely to try and warn Americans what they’re doing to themselves. Canada is not going to benefit from a precipitious US decline, quite the contrary. Your undertow will take us down too.
I would never deny there are hopeful signs. I personally know most of the key figures in the netroots, and I have worked with many of them on various projects.
But I am not an optimist. And while my timing is often off somewhat, I am rarely wrong about broad based economic matters or matters of war. However, I am often wrong about American electoral politics, so we’ll see.
But you underestimate the problems of the US at your peril; the only thing holding the US’s head above water right now are the desperate efforts of your drug dealers who see that if the US goes down they may go down too. Based entirely on the numbers the US is now far past the point where any other nation in the world would have had a financial and economic collapse that would have led to a 20% or 30% decline in standards of living and a similiar level of unemployment.
You are whistling over the abyss.
I think that the support and youth turnout for Obama is this generation’s way of taking it to the streets. Obama is the luckiest surfer ever, he has the perfect board to ride this wave.
Just look at the abject lunacy of McCain crowing about ‘bomb Iran’. It is absolute full throated madness and he’s the guy that large swathes of Democrats look upon as being a reasonable man.
Also imagine the Tancredo/Savage crowd getting unfettered control of the reigns of power? Even Bush is too moderate for these cats.
Good night nurse.
-G
Thanks.
My thought, FWIW, is whether we should expect a better tomorrow.
Tomorrow better than today? That is precisely the problem, our short term perspective. We need to think in terms of years, decades of activism and repair of our political system.
It’s easy to just quit after setbacks, but we need to pick ourselves up and keep going. Even if things aren’t measurably better for us, we owe it to the next generation to invest in their future.
Okay, that made me laugh out loud! I still have a T-shirt I wore when W’s daddy was running for president. It had a cartoon representation of [ahem] a male member wearing a wig and Tammy Faye Bakker makeup. The slogan read:
“Debbie the Dick for President. More Balls Than Bush.”
To this day I treasure the thing!
Would you elaborate on this, please?
With the crash of 09(?), which way will we go? Fascist police state? Fundie/Populist/Nativist? New-New Deal Liberal?
An apt analogy, considering he was born here in Hawaii…! ;-)
Egregious,
Not talking about your wonderful work and the great works of others here.
Talking about the currents of history and the time period in which we live.
Thanks for all your efforts.
Thanks.
-G
Thank you, ART.
With pleasure! Art, we must have hope for the future, determination is the essence of courage. If we abandon hope, we might as well do the Jim Jones thing right now. I say we scheme, we plot, we do whatever we can right up until our last breath is drawn. If we would cede tomorrow to them, then we have truly submitted today.
I see that there are many factors which do not bode well for this nation.
Peak oil is one of them and that will affect the entire world, but oil addicted America far worse proportionately. It’s going to get really nasty competing for fossil fuels.
We probably don’t have the time to stop the train wreck with new “green” technology, but that could possible stim the economy a bit as opposed to sending up in smoke and green house gases.
And then there is the accelerating climate change which seems to be upon us. Whether we caused it or it is natural or it is natural and we are adding to it, the climate is going to render some very severe blows to civilization. We can’t do a thing about it, much like we couldn’t stop Katrina.
And finally the world’s economy has been driven by too much credit and debt and that’s a ponzi scheme and they don’t hold. So the economy is going to reset and who knows what will happen when all that “wealth” evaporates.
I suspect the right will fight dirty for black gold and try to retain something like what they knew. That will be ugly.
HDTV and no one can afford sets, or cell phones or plane fares, or car trips. Watch the shrinking.
I don’t know which way it’ll go. That’s the problem. Whoever is the next president is going to wind up with the wreckage of Bush’s economy in their lap. For a couple years folks will blame Bush, but after that the new President will own it. Right now none of the likely presidents look like they’ll really know what to do.
OT
Doughy Pantload on CSPAN2.
I had to tune in, a case of morbid fascination.
I can’t imagine any single human being who would know what to do with this mess. I’m amazed anyone wants the job of trying.
The Blue Dogs in the House are down to about 50 members.
Yes!
Congrats to Donna Edwards, and let us all keep culling the herd.
It’s no time to be down in the mouth about the Democratic party. We’ve got the rethuglicans dead to rights, let’s not let them escape (like usual).
~
The next president, the next congress or two are going to be in deep doo doo and have to do some very radical things. Lowering the interest rate 25 basis points is pissing in the wind.
Let’s see if they have the balls to make the bold moves required.
Here is a man who is working to place ALL of last century’s ills, including wars and genocides into the lap of one ideology and it aint his side he’s hoping to set up for the fall.
This is part of a despicable campaign of historical revisionism. My wish is that in 20 years his book will be the historical equivalent of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. But I fear that it may not work out that way.
-G
Neither did FDR but he held thing together politically, “saved capitalism”, provided basic social services and initiated reforms.
If a Dem is elected in Nov, for the reasons you mentioned, he/she is likely to serve only one term.
Insofar as I can stand listening to him, he’s completely incoherent. If that’s all the opposition has to offer by way of intellectual framework, they’re pretty much bankrupt.
There! On the stage at the Heritage Foundation! A brown breasted bullshitter!
Could it be an example of the dreaded Human Animal hybrid…
I never thought I’d live to see this country in the shape it’s in now. Even after the republics impeached Big Dog over a blow job. But if crazy train is elected my family and I are leaving the country.
You and eCAHN are stronger than I am… I filter my exposure to The Doughy Pantload through the folks at S/N.
The US has a huge balance of payments problem, and a negative savings rate. Huge amounts of money needs to flow into the US every day to keep the dollar from collapsing and to finance US purchases of foreign goods. Because China and Japan and other East Asian countries want to sell the US goods and because they want to subsidize their exports (especially China who is industrializing this way) they have been willing to keep propping the US up. Around 2003/2004 in particular there was a period where if Japan, China and S. Korea had not stepped up the dollar would have collapsed. At that time I saw figures showing the US was borrowing 80% plus of all the excess savings in the world. Some figures showed over 100% (ie. all the legal money, plus drug money). The US is moving back into the same sort of danger area, and it’s not clear that this time the cost-benefit analysis favors continuing to keep its head above the water (China, for example, has about a 15% inflation rate in the coastal areas, a fact which is concealed by averaging it with the economically dead interior areas and inflation is taking off in other countries.)
Anyway, Argentina collapsed with better numbers than the US and so have many other countries. So the US is in a danger zone.
Some economists think that nations like China will never let the US go down, because it would be bad for them too. I think that one day they’ll decide the cost is less than the expense and do it.
Now bear in mind that this time around what is going to happen (what is already happening) is that sovereign wealth funds will use this as a buying opportunity and will pick up the cream of the US financial sector at firesale prices, winding up with large minority stakes in many of your key banks, brokerages and so on, even out of the financial area.
So this time, I think the US may get out of it poorer (because ownership means a lot of money will flow overseas, and a large minority stake often equals control if the rest of the ownership is dispersed) but without a complete crash. Maybe.
But only maybe. There are worse scenarios.
Anyway, this is getting too long for a comment. Perhaps I’ll do a post on the possible economic scenarios another weekend.
From Huffpo:
Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem’s 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama.
Neither D is any FDR. One thing about being rich is that when you screw up (JFK comes to mind), you have a protective system that bails you, and the country, out. Neither Hillary nor Obama has any such infrastructure. Their foreign policy advisors are militant humanitarians, which means we’ll get into more wars, but they’ll be smaller than Iran and we’ll do it for “humanitarian” reasons. Their economics teams tend corporatist. Either one is bound to make a mistake (nothing personal, just circumstances), and when they do, watch out.
Yup. Could get lucky and one of them could rise to the occasion. I hope so.
Then again the Bush has his finger on the button of 10,000 nukes and was re-elected to office. America doesn’t need the hard sell anymore.
-G
Oh, Lawd, don’t let little Ricky Santorum find out…
Don’t forget the too big to fail doctrine. That will keep the U.S. economy going much longer than you think.
Not unless s/he actually does what FDR did, which would actually work the same today as then… Rebuild our infrastructure, tax the rich, bust the trusts, revive the social net, etc…
Based on previous observations of just ‘whom’ is ‘tolling the bell’, ‘Follow the money’ and all/everyone will become clearer, is probably the prudent/logical course.
Thank you, Ian. You are very generous, and I appreciate your indulgence.
It’s already kept the US going longer than expected. ;)
Jonah Goldberg is such a stupid bastard.
Heh. I was working at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in the Balance of Payments division in 1964-1966. They were freaked about it back then, and the daily gold transfer numbers would only be released a month later. It’s got to be nothing but smoke and mirrors at this point. At least back then the United States was actually manufacturing things people would buy. Now, not so much…
Agree.
America’s not over. We saw the House finally stand up.
I spent all day working for Robert Hamilton to take down Issa. We just might pull this off.
Ahh, but you soldier through MoDo for the early birds, something for which we are truly grateful.
psst
My method for timing when tech bubble would burst: wait and wait and wait and wait and wait until I couldn’t sleep at night. Then I sold and I was 6 months & 50% too soon.
But then along comes Ian, Christy, Jane, Digby, and on and on. Thank god!
So Jonah isn’t a PhD? I see he graduated with a BA from Groucher College, but it makes no mention of his discipline. I see no other credentials.
YUM!!!
He is his mother’s son. What can you expect? /snort
It took a while, but I was finally able to figure out how to digg this post. (All the user names I came up with were taken.)
I hope it’s not too late to set this country straight. I think it can be done, but it will take bold leadership and there will be much resistance from the rats.
Amen, a breath of fresh air! So you think Issa is vulnerable?
His mother is his credential.
Yes. I expected the Housing bubble to burst in late 2005, early 2006. I’ve since then learned that these things always take longer than I think.
They take even longer than that. *g* Lessons learned while forecasting for a living.
A lot of the New Deal was invalidated by the SCOTUS in 1935, 36, 37…It was only after the attempt at court expansion that Roberts changed sides and then one of the Four Horseman retired, that FDR could move ahead.
True. Somebody tell me where to be and when. Someone I respect. I think this is the reason Obama events draw the numbers they do. People want not just blogs, but also actual human contact to know that they are not alone.
Voter turnout is so wonderful this year! (fer the dems)
Good point, considering that it is now similarly composed! I’ll never get over the Alito/Roberts BS… Only thing worse could’ve been Harriet… 8-(
Excellent article, Ian. I just quoted it in an article entitled “I wish I’d said that”, in fact. You’ve touched on many of the things I find troubling about where we’re headed, regardless of who is in power.
I Ecahn – I meant Britain today.
I’m sorry. But I fail to see what all the fuss is about concerning the economy. The coming rebates will fix everything.
“Obamaphilia”
The right’s definition of the “cult” of Obama.
I wasn’t. The difference between the dellionaires and the chumps was timing. A lot of people get caught up in making things work & invariably fail to pay attention to the business aspects. Tech people operate on a different plane and they were the first to be written out of the equation for the sake of profit. We will never forget what was done to us with the H-1Bs in the name of profit. No suitable talent in this Country, someone needs to find out how many unemployed engineers there are in the USA and contrast that to how many H-1B engineers there are filling the jobs these people are qualified to perform.
Sorry! /rant
Engineers are rarely businesspeople.
You’re right! I’m going to use my to fix the infrastructure.
You funny, OKK! 8-P
Ah, but then you always run into what I think of as the “Club Of Rome” effect – make a dire prediction, and then people try to prevent the calamity from happening. I’m sure The Fed and other financial institutions have been trying to minimize the effect, and at least have succeeded in delaying it.
Same thing is happening to docs.
Some say we are headed for a very nasty recession. Perhaps worse.
I’m gonna take my $1200 and invest in Citicorp at firesale prices*g*
They’re still a shadow of their former self. Std of living is quite good (think I read per capita just surpassed U.S. but could be wrong about that), but they only way they can have foreign policy influence is by being U.S. poodle.
Personally I would prefer U.S. to have very little international influences, but that’s just me.
Over 100 replies, and not one mention of the 17th amendment.
When power is concentrated (i.e., “centralized”), it becomes more potent, an object of greater value, etc. The US was formed with a principle of decentralization, all the way to the ultimate decentralization, power reserved to the people.
That experiment is long dead. The new paradigm is to vote for the bonehead who promises the biggest handouts. The Republic is dead, long live the democracy.
Harriet would have been much better..Alito/Roberts are the true believers…Harriet is a political hack..IMO she would have stuck around for a few years and then quietly resigned.
I’m sending mine to my bff dem candidate.
Let’s see now. We are going to get a rebate. And gasoline prices are set to spike in spring and summer. Rebates will be coming in about the same time gas prices are going to jump. Cut taxes (rebate) and continue to spend $15,000,000,000 per month on unwinnable wars. Makes sense to me.
What? Linky?
Or she’d have been impeached for all that hackery… I’m so looking forward to her testimony…!
Me too!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..87020.html
Passed us this year..first time since the late 19th century. Way to go Bush!!
A good talking point that. The same pitch is regularly used down here in the letters to the editor. All liberals/ layabouts/ malingers vote for whomever will give them the most off the back of the hardworking Conservative taxpayer (Of course, no Liberal has a paying job!)
So please…
And the private equity groups part of the article from (New Yorker).
Ian,
My parents live in Canada too and my father also tells me the same things you are saying. I agree with most of this in broad terms.
One thing that I mention to him, that I would like to mention to you what is different about the United States, but is not part of the economy in traditional terms, is the academic power houses that this country has.
As opposed to Canada and Europe (I can’t speak for Asia), the United States has a huge advantage in research over other countries. In the town I reside in now, Johns Hopkins University and its affiliates (Hospital, JPL, Space Telescope, etc.) have become the largest employer in the Baltimore metropolitan area. All of our universities have huge endowments and attract post graduates from all over the world. Our companies have a large competitive advantage over the European ones in that, because the university system allows private funding, R & D for our companies are much cheaper than there. Of course the problem is when our corporations start to be bought out by foreign investment.
We are therefore certainly at a point where policies in the United States need to be changed to protect what we have. We need to enforce policies that promote the overall good of the United States such as investment in renewable energy so we become energy independent as well as wind down the industrial military complex. We need to stop contracting government business out to companies such as Halliburton who are based in Dubai or others who are based in the Caymans. I am not sure if Obama or Clinton can achieve all of this, but I certainly know that the GOP certainly will not.
I disagree with you that this is a unique time in the United States history – we’ve been here before, the last time in 1932; someone mentioned the Civil War; I would mention the post Guilded Age circa 1900 as well. I think you underestimate the spirit of the American people. The one thing that the GOP was able to do was tap into that spirit with, for example, Reagan and his “morning in America.” It wasn’t very often grounded in reality but negativity is a losing strategy in American politics. If we are to move forward, we must emphasize what we have and what we can do and not what we did wrong and how we’re going to hell in a handbasket.
It’s something i pointed out before, but a lot of America’s actual talent in tech and otherwise is leaving the country. It’s hostile to the best of them because of the way the businesses are run. So many of the better tech/engineering geniuses have fled. It’s part the hostility to intellectuals and the rest is just plain bad ways to run a business. We’d have to have an entire social reboot to get a lot of that talent to come back, and i somehow doubt that will happen very easily or at all. Some may return if we manage to get a run of Dem presidents and some changes, but it still won’t bring back some critical aspects of it.
All our ability to truly innovate goes with that talent as well. Some remains but not a lot.
If only the campaign committee would listen to the three of us…the press guy wanted to present him as a “conservative democrat”. We put the kabash on that and ended up with independent democrat- small i.
What countries are these people emigrating to?
You’re in rather good company, you know. If I recall George Washington cautioned us to beware of entangling alliances.
Capitalism has been a myth in this country for some time now. But if the right person becomes our new president next November, the DLC, and it’s Leadership Team will straighten the whole mess out. So there.
heh. Put some pepperoni on that pizza!
Hi pups. I’ve been unable to post for awhile, and miss you guys.
Hoping that was good good news, for the moment, in the House end of session.
Hoyer astounded me this week … More, please.
Back in awhile some day soon, & will keep trying to stay tuned as much as possible.
You guys are just the BEST around!?!! Thank You!
p.s., ohmygollyYES, I do MAKE time to pester congresscritters, and make localcritters know I’m still alive & kicking…
ABC’s David Chalian, Teddy Davis, Eloise Harper, Kate Snow and Sunlen Miller report: Sen. Hillary Clinton is ready to fight for the Democratic nomination all the way to the Democratic National Convention in August if that’s what it takes, but her top strategists say they’re not expecting a nasty brawl in Denver.
NOOOOOO… cboldt, don’t give it up!
Related to that is the climate for immigration. I think it will become increasingly difficult to attract talent from overseas.
One factor about that edge in Academia, is the fact that many Americans are ill equipped to attend those hallowed halls, due to our failure to adequately resource our public education system! Those halls are filled with foreigners whom are better equipped to handle the rigors…!
I have a friend going to Canada, and he’s one of many in his realm of expertise that while here? Wont’ be staying here. Some to the UK, or Europe as well. Canada, while heavily tied to the US economy isn’t as hostile to new ideas. Much less the idea of disagreeing with the establishment, which we Firepups have our own proof of that happening in technicolor across the board.
I haven’t heard about flight to the South American countries, but that’s mostly in the circles i run in. So as far as i know, the ones i know personally have gone to Canada or Europe for the most part. Many of the medical profession are also heading to parts of asia, since they allow for stem cell research without bans. It’s akin to the Medical Tourism, going where the price is right or the ability to continue with research unfairly demonized and treatment of patients allowed as well.
This is true is so many ways. My husband is a 3d illustrator. Several of the younger people on the forums are leaving this country for Europe. American designers, ad agencies, etc. don’t understand how 3d works. If we had the money we would leave.
yay Adie, don’t go far!
Hello Ian – As usual, you provoke a thoughtful discussion.
If nothing else, let the NeoCons be a lesson to all of us of the failure of small minded provincial thinking, incapable of understanding and exploring other realities. They are the classic cult – blinded by their fear of new ideas and questions.
Such empty thinking can dominate when all the players in the branches of government become lazy and complacent. The branches themselves are still whole, the people in them are dysfunctional and broken. A lone voice in opposition falls on stunted minds.
But, We the People, hear the lone voice and we join forces. We must be the NeoCons greatest dread as well we should be.
Thanks.
Hard to imagine being a scientist in the atmosphere in which science is treated in the U.S. these days.
Paging PhysioProf. Anything to add?
Slowly, but surely, you’re catching up, Loo Hoo! ;-)
Can’t speak more generally, but I’m hearing more stories of Canadians working in the US who are saying “Fuck it” and coming back home.
correction: last sentence lone not “loan”. Freudian slip. Mods. please fix me.
Or not.
Tax and spend. Cut taxes and spend. That seems to be the choice. Is there another option?
Mods magic @137
Okay, Clinton’s folks aren’t fighting the problem.
But I don’t understand why elections can be so freaking difficult. Give people paper ballots, have people from both candidates there while counting, and announce results. Hold the paper ballots in case of a problem. Why is this such a difficult concept???
US research and higher education is still the envy of the world, ’tis true. I do worry a bit however, not just about the US but the west in general because of a general sclerosis that is setting in where a ton of research is public/private and then locked up in patents and copyright and unable to be used freely. I would also prefer much more public research in health, rather than private, because I think the incentives are all wrong.
Nonetheless, the US continues to have amazing strengths and could definitely turn things around. The question is whether it will, because the steps required to do so will damage a lot of entrenched interests.
I looked through the article but couldn’t the part about trends re: foreign students coming to the US.
er, where is the part about how the (D) Party is the great Saviour of the Nation, and must be voted for on the slight chance that they will nominate center-right Supreme Court judges rather than sycophantic idiots?
I guess that part is not in there because the (D) party is just as endemically, systemically corrupt and self dealing as the (R)’s – for example there is no way at all they will pass single-payer health care against the wishes of their paymasters in the Insurance and Pharma industries.
Want to create more talent? Education is the key.
Ask and ye shall receive…!
I hate to say it, but i’m leaving as well. But i’ve had those plans since early 2001. Before 9/11 changed the narrative and the country ended up going to hell. I just found out i can be a Dual Citizen for Canada and the US, which suits me fine. I want to still be somewhat active in repairing things here, even if from a distance. My friend on the other hand, intends to cut ties entirely with the US, and i don’t blame him.
I’ve got family on both sides of the border, and i can’t abandon either one. My plans have evolved over the last few years, but the goal has remained the same. I had my choices of Orlando, New York, LA or Toronto back then. I chose Toronto back then and it’s still there in front of me.
Haven’t seen numbers, but everything I’m hearing anecdotally is that they are down. More ominously I’m hearing that visa tightness is meaning that key foreign researchers can’t relocate to the US so new research complexes are being opened overseas even by US companies.
Bad, very very very bad.
First, no smoking so nobody can fold up their ballot around a lit cigarette and set off the entire ballot box. (Learned that one from a friend who had seen it done.) Then get real about what constitutes an “official ballot,” so if someone possibly with arthritis or early Parkinson’s allows their pen/pencil to touch a “non-official” part of the ballot their vote isn’t thrown away. That’s just what I can come up with off the top of my head. There’s more lurking back in the cobwebs…
Amen, OKK!
As we turn our country back towards the commons lets also stop consuming and polluting.
If you accept the idea that “catastrophe will be required,” then hold on to your seats, because I think you’re about to see one the likes of which we have never seen before. Climate change is on the march. Mother nature is in the process of doing what one of my profs said she will do when she gets tired of our antics: Mother nature will shake us off like a dog shakes off fleas. She’s done it before with other unruly species when they got too big or too populous to handle. We have exceeded the carrying capacity of the earth, the atmosphere of which we are currently poisoning at much too rapid a rate for our own survival. What’s worse, we’ve had many warnings about it, not just from people who have tried to voice their objections, but from nature itself.
My nephew recently told me he can’t understand why our scientists and engineers haven’t been working on methods of retaining or redirecting the water, if we’re so worried about the melting of glaciers. I consider that exceedingly naive, since it’s not just the ice melting and the temperature changes, or even the fact that every species of very large animals is on the endangered species list. It’s the fact that bees are disappearing from every continent, and frogs are either mutating or disappearing also. To hell with profiteering from the usual BS stuff, how about when we are held hostage because there’s not enough food to go around. My last class before graduation, they said we’d have to give up meat, because we eat too high off the food chain. They suggested there’s a lot of protein in bugs. (That was in 1992!)
We have a lot more to worry about than whether we remain a superpower. We should start worrying now about our survival, and we should be raising our children accordingly if they are to survive. The sooner we get our heads out of the greed mode and get into a more humanist mode, the better our chances. Good luck to all.
I’m similarly situated but, I have to decide between Hawaii or Nova Scotia… Tough decision…! ;-)
I wasn’t presenting a “trend,” just an individual example. (Oh, by the way, does anyone know how the Rethuglicans let him get a visa? If a Democrat had been in the White House…)
Hi everyone, I am sorry I haven’t been around for this great discussion (work, work, work). I will come back to read however!
Exactly! I’m a bit of an exception (especially since i’m younger than the most of you!), but mostly because i read and explored outside school bounds. And when i graduated from public schooling, i didn’t let that stop me either. All the things that ground down real curiousity(sp? dammit!)never really made a dent in my mind. There are more like me out there, but not many.
I want to see my two nieces have the opportunity to go beyond even my small accomplishments, and they can’t do that in today’s education system. Which is pretty much intent on producing factory workers in a country that no longer has a lot of factories. I don’t have kids, so i have hopes for those of my little brothers. ^^ (And plans to make sure they know their eccentric auntie doesn’t mind geekery, and encourages it!)
Can someone explain to me why if I have a computer problem I end up talking to someone in another country about it?
And does anyone still believe they’re gonna turn things over to a woman or a black man? Riiiiiiiiight!
It’s for the same reason that one of the docs in our practice has his dictation transcribed in Bangalore. They get paid about 1/4 what I do.
to expand your ability to understand english as a second language?
they will, come January 2009. no matter what.
Decades ago my father regularly railed at how the Republicans were trying to destroy the government. And, that was before Watergate.
He didn’t live to see W and the current Republican efforts.
I think what happened after Dewey lost was the Republicans discovered they had absolutely nothing to offer America. All they have been for a long long time is the political arm of the Rich. And, the rich have no need for health care reform, protectionism from cheap foreign labor and the like. So, Republicans have simply decided Democrat (sic) Law and policies must be ignored as illegitimate and government is the enemy (Reagan). They despise government they can’t dominate.
Going back to their earlier Fascist days the Bush family showed a dismissive attitude toward government. It’s natural they should be the face of this Reagan Revolution. Bush is, in many ways, a real revolutionary and natural Conservative heir to Reagan.
Where does this lead us?
It’s up to the Rich & Powerful to decide if a Democracy is acceptable or if they have alraedy scoped out the abyss and decided they can make it across to the other side. Of course, they won’t worry about whether the rest of us can make it or stop before going over the edge.
If they leap and we’re left here, then there’s hope we can pull back and regroup. If they pull us along, then there will be big trouble.
If they see the abyss and want to pull back that would be good except they would still be the Rich & Powerful and apt to repeat this miserable tragedy one generation after another. Each wanting to be free of restraint, like a child who hates hearing their parents say “No!”
Good post Ian. It’s important to remember the big picture we’re facing, even as we win a House seat here or there.
Hey, I try!
Could the price of a college education these days have something to do with our talent deficit?
Your last sentence is what I was referring to in my comment. It is surely the 11th hour; with proper policy to encourage research that
Speaking as someone who actually went to university in Europe, I have to say that one of the problems of solely publicly steered and funded research is that it can become “research for the sake of research” and not have any real useful results or goals. I have a close family member who researched the life of locusts for over 10 years, but when I asked why I was told it was just “interesting”.
There should be a private/public partnership in place where the private sector can steer where the research goes and where the public sector ensures that research, especially in the pharmaceutical field, does indeed not get tied up in patents and copyrights. The Human Genome Project here in Maryland is an example of such a private/public partnership.
One of the unfortunate side-effects of the Bush administration has been that it has not been scientifically friendly. On the other hand, it has encouraged the accumulation of wealth – also in our academia. Their endowment managers are not stupid, their investments are widely diversified and I dare to say that our colleges and universities will be able to weather any storm of a depression which is certainly coming very soon.
two comments:
1) Margaret Thatcher
2) Clarence Thomas
race and gender are superficialities – both (D) candidates are corporate tools.
Are you thinking third party? I sure was before the house vote on FISA. I even told Feinstein that I was beginning to favor it.
I am aware of no planing for “sudden” environmental change. The tipping point for major change probable occurred in the early 80’s when the “ice” began to melt. When the Greenland ice sheet “slips”, the sea level will rise ~24′ and when the West Antarctic sheet “slips” that will be ~19′. Fortunately the East Antarctic sheet seems to be stable.
I know! *g*
And what economic strata can afford to send their children to, perhaps superior, private schools?
My husband thinks that Obama will be killed and the country will riot. Marshall law will be declared. I am not quite ready to go there yet. JCYAPDMTAAY-just cause you are paranoid doesn’t be they aren’t after you.
[RBG Note; and let’s be very careful about how we talk about this. Thanks.]
I live in Toronto. Nice city in its own ways. Too hot in the summer (in spells), snow in the winter, beautiful in spring and fall. Winters definitely aren’t as bad as they used to be.
Second largest theater in North America, after New York, as well, if that’s your thing.
If the US really goes down I don’t know that Canada’s far enough. A couple of my friends have been very careful to get European passports for just that reason.
The last relatively well educated generation was the hippie one.
Blue Texan has information about pitiful ankle-biting upstairs…
We have to employ them there, so we won’t have to employ them here.
It would be nice if Webb would succeed in reinstalling a real GI bill to pay for our current crop of veterans’ education… The Montgomery bill is a travesty in comparison to the WWII or even the Vietnam eras’ bills…
Thank you Ian!
I plan to sail away to the tropics, maybe south America. The boats ready, tested, and all we need to do is provision and set sail.
Bye bye USA. Been nice knowing ya.
The thing about Canada as opposed to the US is its abundant natural resources, i.e. minerals, oil and gas. It is why that Canadian dollar is now = $1US. I don’t know what you exactly mean by “far enough” (I assume away) but while I think there will be some effect from a depression in the US (it is a global economy after all), the fact that the Canadian dollar has risen from 70 cents to a dollar in 3-4 years says to be that the Canadian and the US economy are not that co-dependent.
IIRC, The highest SAT scores were in 1962. Since then they have had to “re-normalize” the curves 4x(?).
Scary!
Yeah. I do have the family ties on both sides though. I doubt i could go THAT far away from either of them.
*grins* I’ve been to Toronto several times, thanks. Part of the reason it was on my initial list of cities. At the time, it was also a good place for media students. Although now it’s turning out that Vancouver, BC is probably the best place for anyone in film/tv. My focus for career has changed, but i can still do my current job in canada. Just need to get the same Certification around the time i apply for citizenship, either before or after. I’m pretty sure it’ll take some supplemental classes and hoop jumping, but not beyond my current ability either. Pharmacy Technicians are needed pretty much everywhere. (And i already have a bit of knowledge about the drug system and the drugs names themselves and whats available OTC and what isn’t to begin with. I just don’t know the british system that canada uses. I’ll be working with Lambton College in Sarnia to remedy that in the future so i can get the Canadian licensing for my job. *grin*
I’m pretty sure canada will go through its own upheaval when it all hits the fan, but i can’t leave my family. It just means i’ll have a better chance of getting through it being where i will be. Still be close enough to help them too, if need be. Which is more important than most anything.
Yup, Pharma techs are universally needed. As you say, just a matter of jumping through the hoops.
Be glad to have you up here. We’ll make you into a canuck in no time.
*hmmmm, real street poutine, eh, and thank you*
My mom’s canuck(never gave up her citizenship after she married dad) and i’ve got a slew of family in the sarnia/st edward area. I’m mostly canuck by default because of that. :P Getting the citizenship thing is just formalizing something i’ve been for all of my life. When you grow up crossing the bridges on a weekly basis and spending whole summers in ontario? There’s not much more to make me a real ‘canuck’. *grin* Granted, it’s been a long time since i’ve had poutine and i desperately miss Timmie’s!
er..sarnia/point edward. Gah, i need to get some food!
The really sad thing about this post of Ian’s is that the people who most need to see it and never will are the dupes of the neocons currently hanging out at FreeRepublic.org, RedState.org, and anyone who habitually passes along any bogus racist right-wing e-mail smear they find.
I’ve been a notorious 3rd party clamorer, but now I waver towards thinking that participation itself confers legitimacy that is not warranted.
The placebo effect doesn’t work for me anymore, but there are plenty who are getting their fix, so fine.
As Ian and others are pointing out, major externalities, systemic imbalances are coming down to destabilize the status quo – Climate Change, Peak Oil, and the collapse of the whole wall street ponzi schemes – the scale of the uncertainties coming out of this totally dwarfs campaign rhetoric, the next Prez will probably get blamed for it all, totally unfairly, of course.
good news – the end of the stupid Suburban, exurban buildout, and the return to high density urban centers!
That should be the SFPOARARWDWTBISOTEA. The Society For People (not Beople) Of All Races And Religions Who Don’t Want To Be Ignorant Slaves Of The Elite Anymore.
I don’t think we have much longer at the top of the R&D heap. Bush has cut off funding for most of the promising future technologies, including stem cell research, medical marijuana (more specifically, cannabinoids), large physics problems, and a host of others. This work is going overseas, and the benefits won’t accrue to the US.
What I was talking about, and what Ian was responding to here, was the enormous wealth that our university system has collected and the ability of American companies to profit from the fruits of their labor.
I will grant you that the Bush administration’s anti-science policies have not aided R & D development. On the other hand our academic institutions are still able to attract the “best and the brightest” in the world through their wealth. They just pay more than the publicly funded institutions in Europe. (I am not qualified to talk about Asia – it might be different there). Our academic institutions are not solely dependent on government aid or government policy. Government policy is part of the equation, but not the entire equation.
Our government policies should encourage that all of this research stays at home and doesn’t get auctioned off to the highest bidder, wherever they might be – that has been one of the many unfortunate effects of both the Bush AND the Clinton years. If you have read the Shock Doctrine, you will understand what I am talking about.
So who? you ask. Look in the mirror. Ian’s post is accurate to a point, but as a prediction of future events, his guess is as good or bad as any. Times change, as does technology. Direct electronic democracy may replace representatives who have long gone into the bag-or not. I agree left wing blogs as now constituted won’t do it, but how do we get 70% of Americans to organize via the internet? Being technologicalldy challenged, I have no idea how, but in the can do American spirit, I believe it can be done. It would be more profitable to discuss how we, individually, but as a group can push back then to bemoan the fact that things are not as bright as they used to be.
Another goal for Ian, the ability to have perspective is a precious gift and you’re repaying that gift in diamonds, brilliantly done.
There are at least three forms of economics at play; Fundamental (philosophic), Applied, and Political, each having differing characteristics as well as fields of play. These are not well distinguished in what is taught in the schools, your posts do great justice to educating others about these properties, well done.
What concerns me is the almost certainty that instead of a FDR to address economic needs, there will be instead a politician demagogue, an Elmer Gantry type, appealing to the public emotions through pseudo-economic mumbo-jumbo, that will lead to the final chapter of the republic. The public will be defenseless through failure of education to resist the siren appeal, an will follow as lemmings over an economic precipice, not knowing what or where they are headed. There are commentors here now that are issuing polemic that I expect from the demagogue, full of anger, of hate, and of unreasoned rage – all emotive based, no indication of rational or followed through thought. And from where I am at, that truly disturbs my ease for the future of the country (and for the rest of the world), long term, a new dark age may be the result and that would be a brighter outcome. All the best……