Good morning, perros de fuego el lago! Have some really nice chocolate (and I mean really nice chocolate) with that coffee and tell me how your day’s going so far.
I’d like to talk about the "surge" (read: escalation) this morning, and to look at what it was supposed to do, what it actually did, and the lies and goalpost-moving being done to try and fool people into thinking that it, and our war in general, is working.
For make no mistake, we are still very much at war in Iraq. Not just occupation, not mere peacekeeping. War. We don’t drop thousands of tons of bombs (as we did last year alone) and kill untold numbers of civilians in plain old "peacekeeping" missions.
And as Siun’s mentioned, the violence level hasn’t actually dropped at all if you count the violence that we’re inflicting, particularly on civilians — especially via the sharply escalating air war, which generally just isn’t being reported except in terse mentions placed at the ends of articles whose main thrust is trying to convince us that things are improving when they’re not. (And things aren’t improving. Not. At. All.)
The main reason we’ve seen a drop in violence on the part of the Iraqis is because of the six-month truce declared in August by prominent Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, the head of the Mahdi Army. And Sadr’s under pressure from his people, who have been attacked by Sunni insurgents as well as by rival Shia groups, to let the truce expire and not extend it when its six-month lifespan runs out in two weeks. (If you were wondering why General Gates canceled the planned troop drawdown last week, now you know: He’s not counting on Sadr to extend the cease-fire.)
But of course, the surge wasn’t just supposed to lower the level of violence and bloodshed. It was also supposed to improve security in order to give the Iraqi government “the breathing space it needs” to “make reconciliation possible.” And it didn’t:
CLAIM: “The surge worked.”
FACT: In October, the Government Accountability Office assessed that of the eight political benchmarks set forth by President Bush and Congress, the Iraqi government had only “met one legislative benchmark and partially met another.” Since then, progress has stalled on key areas laid out by Bush: an oil law, de-Baathification reform, a process for amending the Constitution and provincial elections.
CLAIM: “Conditions in that country have been utterly transformed from those of a year ago, as a consequence of the surge.”
FACT: Though the “surge” has helped Sunni Arabs in Anbar province push al Qaeda in Iraq to the sidelines, the decision to turn on al Qaeda was not caused by the “surge.” U.S. commanders wisely “took advantage of these changing dynamics,” but they did not cause them. Additionally, as al Qaeda’s presence has decreased, sectarian strife has increased.
CLAIM: “We have at last begun to see the contours of what must remain our objective in this long, hard and absolutely necessary war — victory.”
FACT: Only politicians and pundits are speaking of victory. At the end of last year, Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, cautioned that “recent security gains are fragile and still reversible.” “We are trying to be cautious as we describe the progress that is taking place in Iraq,” Petraeus told Foreign Affairs. “There are a number of concerns that we do have.”
Even the Bush people knew that the surge could never meet those goals — which is why they started moving the goalposts right away to lower the threshold of ’success’, and have kept moving them ever since. Meanwhile in Baghdad, Patrick Cockburn describes how the surge hasn’t done diddly — aside from validating the bloody ethnic cleansing of 2006:
Iraq remains a great sump of human degradation and poverty, unaffected by the "surge". It was not a government critic but the civilian spokesman for the Baghdad security plan, Tahseen Sheikhly, who pointed out this week that the city is drowning in sewage because of blocked and broken pipes and drains. In one part of the city, the sewage has formed a lake so large that it can be seen "as a big black spot on Google Earth".
In the coming weeks, we will see the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq by American and British forces on 19 March, and the fall of Saddam Hussein on 9 April. There will be much rancorous debate in the Western media about the success or failure of the "surge" and the US war effort here.
But for millions of Iraqis like Bassim, the war has robbed them of their homes, their jobs and often their lives. It has brought them nothing but misery and ended their hopes of happiness. It has destroyed Iraq.
Over 1.1 million Iraqis have likely died as a result of Bush’s actions since he started his war five long years ago. That’s four percent of Iraq’s prewar, preinvasion population, or one out of every twenty-five people.
Imagine if over twelve million Americans had died over five years as a direct result of America’s being invaded, subjugated and repeatedly bombed by a foreign occupying power. Is it any wonder they want us gone?
Say it with me now, everyone: The surge is a failure, and so is the war. (Unless, of course, you define ’success’ as utterly destroying one nation and endangering the well-being of your own home country.)
Related posts:
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- Come Saturday Morning: Is This Really What You Want, Wingers?
- Come Saturday Morning: Credit Where It’s Due
- Come Saturday Morning: Things Many Think Are True (But Aren’t)
- Come Saturday Morning: Argument by Analogy





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2
Hey Richmond…
Yep. I’m out of the zed game…*g* Now I just wait until someone else grabs the zed…
In other words, they haven’t given us the go-ahead to rob them of their only national resource, so we’ll keep bombing the bejesus out of them till they do.
‘Benchmark’. Child, please.
Apparently ethnic cleansing is a time honored way of resolving differences. For example, I recently heard that after WWII, there were huge migrations in Europe, with Germans shoved out of lands where their families had lived for generations, and vice versa out of Germany. This is all par for the course, apparently, but because no one pays attention to history, we are always surprised when we see it again.
The price of management! As you can see with mine and smgunby, we have gotten wise to this. So, as with sports records, we consider your victories of a higher quality/magnitude because you were able to get so many more letters in first!
Great post, PW, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the election with Mcwar and all.
But does anyone other than us DFH’s on the blogosphere get it?
Everytime I turn on the TV or read a newspaper I am told that the surge is working! I know it’s crap… …but I knew (for some reason) that going in to Iraq was crap years ago.
Is America starting to get it?
Very nice post, PW!
The only thing I would add is that there is not a war in Iraq; the war ended in American victory when the Iraqi army was defeated and Saddam Hussein’s government was ousted. What is going on right now is an occupation. Calling it a war reinforces right-wing propaganda, becauses wars involve “victory” versus “surrender” (and progressives, of course, want us to surrender, while the right wing wants us to surge to victory), while occupations can only be continued or discontinued.
I don’t care what ANYONE says!
I’ll never give up the zed.
Hello, everyone!
I wanted to put all the facts I knew about the “surge” into one post, so as to make it easier for people researching the issue. Also, I figure that the more of us who are out there saying this, the better off we all are.
was it even a war or just authorized use of force?
The Murdock media is accessories to the dead in Iraqi. If you depend on them to tell you what is going on you’d never know we are still occupying a soverign nation. Mister hundred year war should be estatic about it all.
Thank you for that!
It needs so badly to be said, and said often.
OK! I see now, yours was a “2″ for that reason. Alas, as simple worker drones, not management, we can still play as we want.
If we can’t fix it, feature it:
Mr McBush, since only one of the Presidents benckmarks was met and you’re calling the surge a success, what were your benchmarks for success and how have we met them?
Mr McBush, can you please define “win” as it applies to Iraq and then tell us how we get there with a military solution.
Mr McBush, given that the primary goal of the invasion was to make sure Iraq wasn’t making WMD and we’ve certainly accomplished that, why are we still there?
Mr McBush, how is what happened in the Balkans ethnic clensing and what is happening in Iraq is not?
Boxturtle (I could go on)
I’m off for a run (brrrrrr) see you all later.
:)
If the sUUUUUUrge has/is working why do they STILL have to do bombing missions using 2000lb bombs in BAHGDAD and it’s suberbs? If it has/is working and the TERRORISTS are on the run why do they have to use the most destructive airforce in the HISTORY of the world to bomb the CAPITAL city of the country we invaded to bring Democray? Gee, think there might be just a LITTLE bit of collateral damage/MURDERED civilians when ya do that kinda thing?
…all together now , we won it’s time to come home everybody.
McBush is ranting about how ‘genocide will happen’ if we leave. Hey McTemper apparently Iraqi deaths don’t count until you decide they do.
I am growing to loathe McBush as much as Bush.
-G
And I might add, they don’t just drop ONE bomb, they drop them in clusters or “strings” like the load pictured. THOSE ARE NOT GUIDED MUNITIONS they are “Dumb” bombs that just fall anyolwhere.
Actually, it’s very much a war again, as well as an occupation. We dropped over five thousand tons of bombs on Iraq in 2007 alone. This is in addition to the troop escalation.
The meme this is reinforcing is that of a quagmire, like Vietnam. If the “Mission” was “Accomplished” in 2003, why are we dropping five hundred tons of bombs a month on a country we’re allegedly not at war with?
Exactly.
Bravo Zulu, Phoenix Woman. Great post.
No bs, “Just the facts, ma’am, just the facts.” (Apologies to Joe Friday.)
Think I’ll make a handout of it and pass it out at our next peace vigil.
Heartfelt thanks.
Peace Love Light
With your byline, of course. Credit where credit is due.
Peace Love Light
Ding! You just gave me a most fabulous idea. Thanks!
ooooooooo. zing.
I believe the air bombing campaign has been STEPPED UP in the last year and not level of down.
We are still in shock and awe mode!
Get out of Iraq. Now.
Either way. The point is that now, there is no “enemy”, no “victory”, no “surrender”. Those notions simply do not exist. We are an occupying force in a supposedly sovereign nation.
Everything we can do to shift the language of Iraq discourse from the misleading “war” terminology to the more accurate “occupation” terminology helps people to see more clearly what is really going on over there, and to clearly recognize Bush regime lies.
Speaking of Bush lies, I was struck by the fact that, other than being taken to task by some Democrats for his fear-mongering, Bush’s lies about a double-9/11 occurring if Congress didn’t meet his FISA demands were pretty much yawned at by the vast majority of Americans, who aren’t buying his bullshit any more.
Excellent! That’s what I was hoping people would do. Not everyone’s a blog reader.
After 15 or so Friedman units General Betrayus is now saying maybe we need a “pause in the surge”…Bush speak to mean we’re going to be there forever…
Impeach, indict, incarcerate all the BushCo traitors and facists!
Excellent post, PW! “Don’t let McBush be Bush’s third term!”
Totally OT: The grandson’s heart operation, yesterday, seems to have been successful. Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Also, the insertion of a large ‘US military footprint’ in the region was supposed to instill fear into the heart of regional tyrants and bring about an end to destabilizing forces in order to bring about regional peace.
Yet, Pakistan is crumbling to bits.
Afghanistan is now in a 7th year of an occupation of attrition and deteriorating.
Iran is unbowed even with large US troop concentrations in their border and steaming around their shores.
Turkey bombs Iraqi Kurdistan at will.
Israel and Palestine are locked in an escalating war.
After one war with Hezbollah in 2006, it looks like round two is imminent.
Reports that 50,000 Hezbollah are massing in Southern Lebanon.
George and Dick have brought the miracle of peace to the region.
-G
It has been. That’s the part of the “surge” that doesn’t get talked about much, except obliquely.
I’m old enough to remember when excessive bombing, such as what the Nazis did at Guernica, would shock the world. Now we have a Guernica every week, if not every other day, in Iraq.
You’re welcome.
Peace Love Light
Ho hum. WE haven’t been attacked since 9/11(except with anthrax).
That is all this selfish nation cares about.
-G
Best news I’ve heard this week Texas Ellen. Keeping the little guy in my thoughts and prayers.
I do not want to elect a president who voted for this war. And I am weary of hearing the phrase “if I knew then what I know now…”. For us in this home, Iraq remains the number one issue. Some talk high and mighty about their concern for children. Perhps the dead Iraqi kids and orphans are different. Kids are kids. Damn it.
Not to mention Brits bombing Germany cities & U.S. firebombing Tokyo & nuking 2 other Japanese cities during WWII.
Many people realize that we were lied into war. Bpgus reasons. Saddam was a monster. OK we got him and the others in the deck of cards.
So we should listen to chimp… Mission accomplished and leave.
Why not? Because the mission accomplished was to get out ass in Iraq to stay there as long as there is oil and wealth to extract from that land.
We don’t care why kind of government they have, but asking for a democracy is asking for hell to freeze over. They are not the kind of people to join together in a “federation”… so they fight each other and they fight us because we don’t belong there and everyone knows it, except the oil companies and the arms suppliers. War is good biz for them.
Oil has gone from $11 to $100 in 7 years. I wish my earning went up 10 times. Poor oil companies they have to work in such rough conditions.
If you’re going to use Spanish–I think that should be perros del lago de fuego. Just sayin’.
Thanks very much PW. I really appreciate you continuing to hammer on this.
FWIW, I think the number of refugees, who have left Iraq is also very relevant. The fact that it was the wealthy and well-educated who left is also very relevant in my opinion. All this war/occupation does is destabilize the rest of the Middle East and make it a breeding ground for more acts of violence against the U.S. I wish the Democrats would go on the offensive about this. Bush is daily making the US less safe.
FWIW, I think Joe Wilson showed the way to attack in his visit to FDL, because the occupation, it’s not a war, doesn’t survive a military analysis. Joe asked this question: “Based on current US deployments to Iraq, what are the troop to task ratios and the force protection requirements?” That’s a question both Hillary and Barack could start asking right now without sounding “soft.” They have plenty of military leaders such as Wes Clark, who will back them up. You’re never more potent than when you can ask questions.
Wilson (and Steve Gilliard (RIP)) also rightfully observed that our land forces will probably have to fight our way out.
The short and long term geopolitical consequences are dire. Every day we stay, we make Russia and Iran more dominant in the region. Once we get out, and try to rebuild what is left of our military, we will have real leverage, because no one will want us to return. That’s a lot less expensive.
We’re also funding both sides of the war; other side through purchases of Saudi oil, and our side through our tax dollars.
FWIW, I still think there is political gain for the Democrats in calling it what it is, “an occupation,” not a war. YMMV
FWIW, Powell Doctrine for the use of military force:
Only Congress can declare war. Iraq was an invasion and occupation using traditional weapons of war to achieve both. Even if Congress tries to give their responsibility to someone else, like the president, they cannot without going through a constitutional change. Both congress and the administration ignored the constitution, equally.
Congress willingly sold out the Constitution and the American citizenry.
How many millions of people demonstrated what they knew then?
What do people know? Nothing. We need intel and intel from other nations too!
And then we have Mr. McCain. Another Bushian lunatic.
what we have to do is make sure this is what the democrats know and say
they CANNOT allow any “pundit” to get away with claiming ANY kind of success, they can NOT allow McCain to claim it is a success
that’s what has to be done, pelosi got on the right page now all the democrats had better do it
but they have to do it the right way, they MUST give the curt snicker and incrdulant response, they must embarrass the person for even thinking of repeating the neo con’s talking point
we must embarrass McCain every time he tries to claim some kind of success for this escalation
guess it wasn’t worth much
Really a terrific comment, thank you.
Democrats miss a huge opportunity as long as they continue to allow the Bush Administration to speak in terms of Iraq in isolation. Democrats have to hammer ask for a geo-political evaluation of the Middle East as a whole. That’s the only way to see just how much Bush destabilized the entire region.
This could be the story of the Century:
http://dailykos.com/story/2008…..736/457925
My lady and I knew it was wrong to start an unprovoked war. Hope you are having a good Saturday. We’re dealing once again with a major ice storm here.
We like your stuff.;0)
L. and okk.
BTW I also read recently (don’t have a clue where or otherwise I’d link) that there have been secret talks between U.S. & Iran. The net result is that Iran stopped supplying Iraq insurgents with weapons in exchange for a less aggressive U.S. stance on its nuke program. As the article argued, the aftermath was less violence in Iraq and a toned down U.S. Admin on Iran. Not vouching for the truth of it, just throwing it into the hopper.
I would like to add;
mr mcbush, since you said this war would cost billions, what do you think of your strategic knowledge now that we known it will cost trillions?
mr mcbush, since you said this engagement would only last months, would you care to evaluate your strategic knowledge now that it looks like it will last generations?
Frankly this war has one upside, if it is the end of the US military as it was once and thinks it is and wants to be… supreme, then soldiers have not died in vain if war can end there. Doubt it.
Bush broke the military.
But he now plans to use mercenaries and make the military and shock and awe deal, cowardly cluster bombing, shock and awe and then pay mercs to have fun killing on the ground. Why do we want UV vets bitching and asking for after war care and benefits?
No nation can afford this type of military adventurism. Maybe the congress critters will see that the MIC bankrupted the nation???
We’re expecting…gulp…tornadoes in Central Texas…
I don’t think they can show any success in the war by asking?
Are we safer today because of this war?
How so?
I kind of think that kind of success would be a boasting point from the administration, in any event, if it did happen, it shows that talks accomplish much more then threats or military action
The DLC was a strong supporter of invading Iraq. Senator Clinton is a member of the DLC Leadership Team. HRC voted with George W. Bush to attack women, men and children in Iraq. “It Takes a Village”. What bullshit.
Half of Baghdad is without running water right now. Neighborhoods also have little electricity: some people get an hour a week ( or less). The U.S. does not allow chlorine to come into Iraq, so potable water is a problem, which means, yes, cholera is happening and expected to rise this spring.
Earlier this month, an Iraqi official reported that Baghdad has a lake of sewage that can be seen on Google Earth.
The International Federation of Red Cross Red Crescent Societies has launched a new campaign to raise funds for the Iraqi Red Crescent. This link gives you info and also links you to a donation site, if you’re so inclined/able.
If you happen to have a blog or facebook or are inclined to email your friends, would you help get the word out a little further? (cf: the last post…making ripples…..)
No, they don’t get it, and will never get it as long as it remains ignorable (and Bush Iraq policy for this year has no purpose other than tamping things down until they can blow up on someone else.)
However, the one positive note is that all the cheerleading hasn’t increased support for the war, it’s just slowed the decline in support. Apparently, once people decide it wasn’t worth it and we should get out, they don’t go back (at least not without a lot more “success” than this.)
I was hoping someone would draw the conclusion that talking can work better than bombing.
I think they can’t talk about it publicly because it conflicts with their line about how evil Iran is & how you can’t talk to them because that would give them greater status than they’re due.
Wonder if this is the sewage lake?
In some ways, McCain is even worse. McCain seems to be really tied up psychologically in using this war to redeem Vietnam, to prove the argument that we could have “won” there if it hadn’t been for the DFH’s.
Take care of your self. Down there in the Lone Star State. We have family all over Texas.
Just for you and the rest of Texas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySNON249yes
After living through an Embassy bombing teaching in a Shariha nation of Libya, and watching US Agression for years, I have come to the conclusion that “It is all about Us” Iraqi deaths and Arab deaths do not compute…they are lesser beings
Bush and the military are criminals for their treatment of these people.
You said it! It’s not that we don’t seem to ever learn, it’s that we enjoy destroying other people. Humans are very low.
There are no winners in a war. Everyone loses. Everyone is degraded to the lowest base a person can reach. The US and Allied Forces enjoyed firebombing Germany. Dresden was not a military center and Germany was already destroyed. We targeted civilians. “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran! Teehee!”
Japan was already on its knees. Every large city had been firebombed. Dropping the A-bomb on two cities was targeting civilians. It was extermination for the love of extermination. “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran! Teehee!”
Iraqis are target practice. It’s better than a video game. “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran. Teehee!” As long as people live on this planet, wars will be he ultimate sport. It reflects the lowest state of human evolution and this we glorify in flags, patriotism and god.
I belive Senator McCain has great potential to behave even more grotesquely than Bush. Hope you’re having a great day!
Thank you very much.
You are so spot on with this assessment.
Our military feeds some very dark need in too many “humans”.
Our country has removed 60 separate governments around the world.
The killing need is a real sick part of the american psyche and it is manifest in school shootings as well.
We are terribly violent and destructive as a people.
Excellent points.
Among the Dead Cities—The History and Moral Legacy of the WWII Bombing of Civilians in Germany and Japan by A.C. Grayling makes many of the points you made. It was the book I’d been looking for for several years to focus my thinking about what the Allies did to German & Japanese civilians during WWII. One slight correction to your comment. It was the RAF that bombed German cities. U.S. bombing there was much more focused on military targets, according to the book. It was the U.S. bombing in Japan that was civilian focused. And that was the “good” war.
And the author does spend some time talking about how much easier it is to destroy civilians from the air than on the ground.
OT: About the Banking Crisis. By Eliot Spitzer.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..83_pf.html
Who did the Dresden fire bombing… US or the Brits or both?
This thing’s going on for another two years at least- if McBush gets elected- another five at least. Whenever we get out it’s gonna be a fuckin mess afterwards as well. Fuckin idiot who drove the bus into the cul de sac keeps sayin that he’s got em on the run.
What I want to know and haven’t seen an answer to yet is, if Sec’y Gates has suspended the troop withdrawal, how has he accomplished this? We know that we do not have enough troops left to fulfill rotation requirements, so are the troops that were supposed to have been drawn down being held for longer than their fifteen month tour, or are they rotating more fresh troops in to replace the ones that left? How are they accomplishing a suspension, and what will it do to our readiness for any other incident that might arise?
Brits, iirc. I’m not where the book is so I can’t check. Will try wiki.
In this house we voted for Senator Obama in the Oklahoma primary. We want to encourage the Senator to speak out about the immorality of killing thousands of children, the elderly, the poor and the sick, in an unprovoked war.
Wiki sez it was both RAF & USAF. That was 12 weeks before the Nazi surrender when the outcome of the war was completely known. However, for a year or two before that the RAF regularly bombed German cities large & small, while the U.S., as I said, bombed mainly military & strategic (like oil depots) targets.
A bunch of these financial institutions are insolvent and are trying to borrow money to stay afloat. The fed is printing money. hahhaha
The credit industry is leveraged to the sky. And the bond insurers don’t have the cash cost they are invested in the financial sector. The same one which is broke. hahaha
The are feeding the addicted US consumers more cash for the fix of consumerism, in the belief that this is the fix for an ailing addicted to credit economy.
Rubbish.
Mr. Bush ought to be indicted for war crimes. And if convicted should spend the rest of his days in solitary confinement.
I always thought”Slaughter House Five” by Kurt Vonnegut an excallent starting point on Dresden. “Catch 22″ by Joseph Hellar as well.
It is really hard to kill civilians on the ground. From the air they are dehumanized and you never have to get your hands dirty. Just press a button and the machine does it for you. You see no blood, guts and burned bodies. You hear no wailing in agony. You never see the child clinging to its mother’s breast sobbing over her lifeless body. So when you get back to the base you hifi each other and notch your belt. What a man!
But a school shooting we cannot understand. It is up close and personal. The shooter must be deranged, mentally ill. Actually, it’s the same identical person as the pilot in the plane. If you understand the pilot dropping bombs on civilians, you will understand the kid who does the campus shooting. The only difference is one killing is done with approval and the other is not.
Yossarian in “Catch 22″ is a great example of impersonal Air War. Vonnegut on being bombed by his own side.
It is my understanding that both the British and US forces carried out those bombing.
Read Catch-22 in high school, over 40 years ago. Took it off the shelf to reread it, and just couldn’t get into it. Recently bought a copy of Slaughter House Five used for less that $1 but haven’t read it yet.
As I said… we have a thing for killing and violence and the security state jobs exploit is and sanction it and sanitize it.
We’re fucked.
Our fighting is cowardly on every level. We use the most tilted playing field we can, overwhelming force and take no prisoners. Kill em all.
I have a friend who was “interned” in Germany during the war. He has very interesting stories about being bombed.
Although I don’t know about Dresdan, I do know that the Dutch are still upset with the Germans because of their flattening of Rotterdam! I’m not sure how the people of England feel about the Germans, but I do know that major parts of London and other English cities were destroyed by the Luftwaffe. Not to mention, if you want to talk about ethnic cleansing, lets talk about the numbers of Jews, Gypsies, Poles, etc. that were killed in horrible ways. Sitting around waiting for it to happen didn’t help them, and it didn’t prevent us from experiencing Pearl Harbor. Yes, war in abhorrent; but unresisted annihilation is, too.
Just went back and checked several sources. It was both British and US airforce that bombed Dresden. Dresden wants them both tried for war crimes.
Yes, but two wrongs don’t make a right.
In Germany during WW II, the Nazis slaughtered Jews. In the Middle East today, the American government slaughters Muslims. Some things seem to remain constant.
Yes, apparently they combined for Dresden. But the Brits had a program going back for several years where they specifically targeted German cities with little or no military value. Started with Operation Gomorrah (so named because it was meant to obliterate the city) in Hamburg in 1943.
My Father was a bomb loader for the American Air Force in England in the War. I took Dad and Mom to England in 1979, on the day Lord Mountbatton was killed by IRA Terrorists. At the Edinbrough Military Tattoo there wasn”t a dry eye in the place. Many are haunted by violence and war.
The Japanese did the same thing in WWII. They targeted civilians and brutally tortured them. The Japanese put the most horrendous concentration camps on the island of Java that practiced grotesque torture and execution. To this day the Japanese people find it hard to believe and refused to acknowledge the rape of Nanking. This is the forgotten holocost of WWII. The Japanese continue to honor their war heroes.
The question begs to be asked. What makes humans do these things? It crosses every culture and runs throughout history. So quickly, humans fall into depraved behavior. Every time, we are shocked.
You are so right. A 2nd amendment case will come up in the Sup Ct about arms in DC. Let’s just arm up somemore: I heard comments critizing the Ill campus for being a “gun free” zone, or else that class room could have stood up and starting shooting. The culture in TX is so toxic on this stuff; we just love the death penalty. OT: I have been under the weather this week, and just seeing this stuff makes me sicker. Who have we become as a people? Let’s just torture, invade other countries, kill our own. The Why we Fight gave so much of the answer; start with $$, then add human aggression. We have had a perfect storm of lies, deceit, cruelty, sociopathy, and stupidity in the last few years. Words like “Feminazi” and “illegals” and “aliens” carry the day. Sorry.
The future is dead ahead. In our home we support President Obama.
But no one seems to learn and we have this immense killing machine called the DOD and our people demand right to have weapons.
We are not an example of a peaceful nation.
Frankly, I’m not surprised that Japanese refuse to acknowledge past sins. I think that’s far more common than the reverse (i.e., Germany’s post-WWII taking some responsibility). After all, try to find a U.S. politician who would take responsibility for any of the ills in U.S. history.
Anyone who even broaches the possibility that the United States may have ever done wrong hates America and is a traitor.
Anyone ever visited Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial?
Hey we genocided the native Americans and put them in camps and took the land as if it was ours to take.
Our entertainment is full of violence and sports is often a facsimile of war. It not running the fastest or jumping but defeating another team.
Our society worships competition and winners are celebrated and losers forgotten and ridiculed.
We have beautiful gentle creative people who are forced live with and be dominated by aggression violent people who are completely out of control.
Look at your local police force. What are they protecting? The rich and wealthy from the riff raff.
Lovely.
Oh I love that one.
]
If you have a criticism, you are unpatriotic and hate america.
That shuts em up. It works for congress critters.
Yep. Which is why no one in power here can learn anything useful from history.
How many have died in Iraq since the institution of the Surge Doctrine?
Did I read correctly that creepy Matalin cheerily gave a shoutout for happy 1st anniversary of the surge? These people are beyond belief.
PW: thanks for the chocolate tip. Great coffee & chocolate are sanity savers, esp in the last 8 years. Almost better than sex.
Isn’t that the case? We all think our killing is OK. We rationalize it, justify it and glorify it. Those people over there are the bad ones.
If is were just Joe Schmuck like this, OK. No, it’s our “leaders” the ones who want to be commander and chief of the military. That is worthy of being called “terrorism”.
One of the themes I stress in introductory history is that we profess to love peace while perpetuating war,are inhuman while we claim to be special, have a history of Xenophobia, and we are in eternal civil war over which competing visions we care to acknowledge.
It is in our DNA. There is the “us” and there is the “them”. It all depends on how we define the us and them.
And in a sense it’s worse in the U.S. than in other countries. Being geographically isolated and often on the winning side provides a great deal of insulation from the mistakes.
Collateral blood for oil. That’s what it’s about. In Iraq and sooner or later, Iran. Oil. Our vital corporate interests. And our government thinks we don’t know the score. Incredible.
how much does testosterone play in it, in your opinion?
A Darwinian asymmetric response to bads, which can be existential threats, versus goods, which are merely pleasant. If we weren’t hard-wired this way, the human race might have disappeared long ago (leaving the earth better off?).
Clusterfuck continues to try to tie the hands of his successor to the wheel of Iraq. Good op/ed in the NYT on the illegality of his machinations.
Our soldiers in the Middle East are fighting, and dying for the bottom line. Corporate profits.
It’s all too much for me. I’m going to cook lunch, for us.
McBush wants to have it both ways- I’m against torture but I vote for torture. I’m against the way this war has been waged but I’m it’s chief cheerleader…
Beat McBush or pay the consequences. He’s a fuckin idiot.
Do you consider what the US is doing in Iraq as mostly fighting or attacking?
Up is down, wrong is right, the propaganda/framing is everywhere…pushed all the harder because we are all so wired-in.
Meanwhile, the “Redskins” play on and those who protest are “off the reservation.”
Prairie Today: Lessons in Framing: The Big Picture
I am convinced that cultural developments and historical happenstance have more to do with it than genetic propensity for war.
What does anyone think is the best book written on the start-up of the war? Even those who were for it, generally think the execution has been horrific. But at the beginning: who has best captured the rationale, justification, lies, who said what…etc. Thanks
Dresden was bombed the night of February 13th by the British. The Americans came in and bombed it again the next morning. Much propaganda was created around the event by the Nazis and the DDR. It was claimed at the time that more than 100,000 people died and that Dresden made no contribution to the war effort. Frederick Taylor’s 2004 book about the bombing maintains that there were a number of sites (including a precision instrument factory) which were, in fact, involved in supplying the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe. Taylor says as well that the Nazi administration knew full well that the city might be bombed. High officials there had bomb shelters. The citizenry did not. Taylor believes that approximately 33,000 people died in a sixteen hour period, most by suffication. The fires from the incendiary carpet bombing was so systematic all of the oxygen in the air was burned up.
The Rape of Nanking Nanjing Massacre
Old footage of Japanese invasion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoW2WYdOsvg
I don’t know, the Australian government just apologized to the aborigines. I can see the possibilities in the next administration, particularly if Obama is the prez, wherein the government would offer an official apology to African Americans. Have they ever done it for Native Americans? If not that would be nice too.
OT but from the discussion of books below – you might find interesting a book titled Eyewitness to History.” It was edited by a couple of Brits and is from their perspective but they went back and pulled together eyewitness accounts of many actions throughout history. Most of the pieces range from half a page to twenty pages. They tried for the contemporary accounts rather than memoirs so that things weren’t clouded and redefined.
The articles go from the “Death of Socrates” by Plato through the eruption of Mt Vesuvius by Pliny the younger up through I believe the Challenger disaster. Includes the news accounts of the Charge of the Light Brigade and the story of the “Black Hole of Calcutta”.
Fascinating reading if you enjoy history in this fashion.
Attacking.
Excellent post, PW. Really needed to be said – and heard.
But I think, at least to this point, the surge has accomplished its objective – to enable the Bush administration, with the complicity of their media lapdogs, to win the propaganda war against the American people,
Sounds fascinating! Thanks for the sug.
Who wants to read such things. You have to be an academic. I find those books horribly depressing.
I love to listen to Gore Vidal speak about America, or Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn, or Studs Turkel.
Seymour Hirsch is OK but he sleeps with the enemy, so to speak with all his buddies in the pentagram feeding him bits.
(I really don’t know what the fuck I am talking about) but..The Darwinian pressure would be the survival of the “family” hunter gatherer group of 50 to 200 members. >95% of the time that modern humans have been on the planet, the social structure was hunter gatherer. Any group or individual not in the group would be in competition for resources and therefore a threat.
He is an interesting piece on how humans are “hardwired” for the “us” vs “them”.
Sciam
PW,
I love it when you do posts like this. It engenders alot of discussion and brings all our interests and specialties to light.
Sherman said it well.”War is hell” particularly when one scorches the earth such as we have done in IRAQ.
Here’s the Amazon link if you wish.
Noam Chomsky is a giant.
Can you imagine a world in which every country was lead by a Noam Chomsky?
I used Terkel’s “Hard Times” and “The War” in my research Humanities assignment. The Kids complained about no Table of Context and I replied “This is oral history by a person who lived it and interviewed thousands. Wade through it! He gives everyone a VOICE.”
The man’s work has left a hell of a legacy. Echoes of the Past.
While the thrust of this post is certainly valid, we may not have the “no benchmarks passed” talking point securely in our back pockets as of last Wednesday. Juan Cole reports that Al Hayat reports three laws actually passed that smell a bit like benchmarks. (And Cole called them benchmarks the next day.) Specifically,
(1)The budget that was passed resolved the question of what share of the oil revenues the Kurds would get (17%, to be re-adjusted after a census to be completed by the end of this year).
(2) New elections, which Cole says won’t be boycotted by the large groups that sat out the last one. (This means the Sadrists will become a major power in parliament, which Juan figures will raise pressures for the U.S. to leave.) The elections are scheduled for October 1 – count on several weeks of purple finger ecstasy in the media, claiming total vindication for McCain, just before the elections here.
(3) A law, unspecified in content by Arab media, that spells out what sorts of autonomy are to be allowed to the provinces.
Each of the three was opposed by a significant bloc in Parliament, but by calling for a vote (a voice vote only, actually counting votes would as we all know be un-American) on all three at once, everybody got enough to be merely grumbly about what they lost.
Concerning Dresden, yes, it was joint, Link
I’m not trying to escalate this, but the British were reacting to the “the Blitz,” the bombing of civilians in London.
While strategic, the elimination of Hamburg does not get the attention of Dresden. IMHO, a terrific read is In Deadly Combat, A German Soldier’s Memoir of the Eastern Front. The author, Gottlob Herbert Bidermann, emerges as someone who could have been an FDL commenter. He was conscripted into a war his government and church told him was just. Given the lack of credible information, he and his peers had little reason to suspect otherwise. He was Wehrmacht, so he never said “Heil Hitler.” He lost a girlfriend in the bombing of Hamburg and his recounting of learning of her death is especially poignant. It’s not as though anyone found her body. She lived in Hamburg. Hamburg was bombed for days upon days. No one who cared about her, had heard from her. In Germany, everyone knew what that meant.
FWIW, I think the relatively new field of evolutionary psychology is full of crap (no offense). Whether people are dealing with issues of sex/gender or other concerns, so much of it is defined by presentism, i.e. the reading of the past through the lens of the present. Alas, this too shall pass. For every emphasis on us versus them there are equal and greater drives for community, aid of others etc. Indeed, one of the proven ways to promote major stressors is isolation. People simply cannot endure it without going nuts.
OT but I’m still trying to figure out why I’m having trouble with FDL’s programming lately. Usually, I can’t reply without copying and pasting everything, I can’t use the Bold or any of the other formatting icons or quote or link or spellcheck or preview, because the tab keeps spinning like it’s not fully connected yet. Once the spinning stops, I can once again use all the icons, etc., but it takes varying lengths of time for the spinning to stop. Yet this particular post did not spin at all. Everything was immediately available to me. Hope this means whatever was wrong is now fixed, but it sure is a curiosity to me. If anyone has any idea what’s going on from my explanation, please let me know.
Studs Terkel is one of great heroes. I wish NPR would do a series of Studs radio shows. I learned so much about my own family history through his depth of union history.
FWIW I now heavily use YouTube in my lectures – students can watch people speaking for themselves (and a whole array of other things). Plus you can talk over the sound, stop it at any point, and put it up on the course website.
We are having breakfast for lunch today. And I am hearing noises from upstairs asking if I have given any thought to being hungry. It turns out I have. Nothing fancy today. French toast, shroom and swiss cheese omelette and pan fried potatoes. Tomato juice, too.
What web browser, web browser version and Operating System?
For several perspectives on why the Brits bombed German civilians, read the book I referenced in 74.
I’m not reading comments as often as I used to, it’a always good to see you.
OT, Kirk Vonnegut was with the US 106th Infantry Divison. He was taken as a POW in the Battle of the Bulge. He witnessed the bombing first hand and was forced to drag bodies out. From that experience came Slaughterhouse-Five.
I pissed a lot of tenured professors off by using that method, but I find it highly effective. My students love it when I stop the media and give them the background. Context is everything.
What fun. And sounds wonderful. I probably should not invite myself, but I would love to join you. ;) And let’s don’t talk about this stuff over food, please.
Thanks.
LOL – Its fun pissing off other professors!
Using Firefox (but it works the same way on IE last time I checked it) and Windows XP. But I used both of these before, when it worked fine. I don’t know how to find out what version of the browser I’m using. I’m not sure whether it quit working when something in my computer got updated, or during their last upgrade of FDL.
Sounds great! You and Lahoma sure eat well! Cats this weekend?
Probably already said,
It was lost before it began, and anything thrown into the mix doomed to failure. We bombed them and brought them too their knees and then insurgents fighting guerrilla style have unrelentingly chewed at our knees ever increasing the field of battle. You cannot fight an ideology with guns, you can never win an insurgent war unless the people are with you. Giap in Vietnam never cared whether he won a battle, his aim was to extend our forces and render them ineffective, and he succeeded, and we have failed (evidently) to understand the nature of this kind of fighting, thinking that you can keep bombing, and killing with planes and soldiers on patrol in a traditional sense, when the enemy just moves somewhere else and waits to strike again.
Bottom line, you could kill them all and not win the battle.
And the horror shames and disturbs me deeply, and it disturbs me that we cannot rise en mass to stop it, and the war against us here in America.
The differences seem to be in defining the make-up and size of the community. A “liberal” enlarges the community and the “conservative” constricts it.
Agree.
This was also George Washington’s strategy against the British.
I avoid Windows like the plague so I can’t help you there.
Maybe try updateing Firefox from the menu:
Help -> Check for updates
also try:
Tools -> Clear Private Data
From there you can clear the cache and session
Often yes, but not always. Fascists tend to want to broaden (and control) the community too. And, of course, there is/was Hitler, the moonies, the evangels etc.
That’s what’s so ironic about the U.S. not knowing about insurgencies, having become independent that way. Talk about not learning from history.
One of the great men of our times, I love that man, he is one of my champions.
Day of shame and show it 3-19-08. Strike/boycott wear an armband w/# 5 for the 5th anniversary of the start of the mistake. No shopping ,No work, No school just take to the streets.UFPJ Peace now damn it!
Hi Boo,
Good to see you here. I pop in now and then. Just spent three days in Cologne so I haven’t been online since Tuesday. I’ve read “Slaughterhouse Five” a couple of times. It’s an American classic. The film version is pretty good as well.
Why do you think we are not rising? For most of us W is the Emperor with no
clothes, but not for everyone, to be sure. Apathy? Has Terrorism and that mantra truly paralyzed us? Of course, it would be different were there a draft. We were gamed into this war and seem to have been very willing allies. I do not get it.
Is that not amazing, that is if you put all the horror aside and talk about the stratergizing, that people of great education cannot figure this stuff out, my thought, maybe they just don’t give a shit.
The cathedral in Koln is beyond amazing, just thinking about it inspires one to think about what humans can do if there is a will.
Justice flows from compassion and empathy.
Good morning. kiddo is fixing breakfast.
Lahoma.
I know you, from your comments, are as pissed as I am, I get beside myself with anger and it is not good for us to be so, and I don’t know what to do to be effective other than what I do, like you all, write, call, protest.
Your last sentence echoes my thoughts. I do not get it.
Well the Nazi’s solution was the final solution. The evangelicals have, IMO, the most reprehensible world view possible. If you don’t agree with their religion, you are going to Hell. (The thought of which gives them great pleasure). The idea that 99.999% of human beings have or will be burned and tortured for eternity is the most sick and perverted philosophy that I can imagine. It is the ultimate evolution of the “us” and “them” .
i was there yesterday. like some other churches, the Cologne Cathedral is still unfinished. There is a recent window designed by Gerhard Richter who is one of the most important living artists today.
Great post PW — thanks for keeping this front and center!
A beautiful thought Kiddo one that can move nations, your humanity is a treasure to be guarded fiercely.
FWIW: Per The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
John Conyers told two Code Pink members that the reason impeachment is off the table is that “the corporate power structure won’t allow it.” (h/t commenter oibme at Dkos)
So, it looks like we already have fascism.
Doesn’t that answer alot? And reurges the question of how many in the “opposing” party are on the same team. I wonder what exactly that means, in some detail, what “won’t allow it” means? Money, favors, jobs or more. Thank you for that answer; The truth here is not pretty, but I guess it explains Cheney, et al. Are we cooked?
In a speech at the London Institute of Petroleum in 1999, Halliburton CEO Dick Cheney says,
The “mission” was and remains seizing control of the “2nd largest oil reserve” on the planet — canceling contracts with “foreign suitors” and handing over control to US/British oil giants like Exxon-Mobil and British Petroleum.
It’s an oil grab, folks!
see:
Slick Connections, by Erik Leaver and Greg Muttitt
Terrorized by “War on Terror,” by Zbigniew Brzezinski
Will stealing that oil cost less that purchasing it?
I happened to be watching Hannity on FOX the day of the one year anniversary of the surge. He was so giddy and gleeful touting its success I thought he was going to produce a birthday cake with candles on it. Fine, but did’nt President Bush announce in the beginning that this was going to be a six month surge? Of course Mr. Hannity never mentioned that or anyone else on any other news channel that day.
The surge was a lie from the beginning. The surge was about George Bush buying time and procuring endless funds from congress to continue his war through the end of his administration and beyond. They justify all this by any success the surge has brought is good reason to keep wasting money and lives in a country where we are not welcome or wanted.
I thing your average Iraqi would like us to fix the electricity, sewers, and water systems maybe repair the buildings we damaged or destroyed, and then get the hell out of their country and let them live their own lives and decide their own future. Our occupation is hindering any of this from happening.
The criterion for whether the Surge worked is common sense not any of the variety of criteria W proposed ahead of times or afterwards. Or ditto for us.
US deaths are down. We know that. It’s claimed(and disputed) that there are fewer civilian deaths. Probably there are fewer. Reporters describe a Baghdad that is somewhat more livable.If anyone cares ( I don’t) the Iraqi parliament has approved some bills we were hoping for. Time will tell whether that’s good.
Can we honestly describe all this as being the same(or worse) than pre-Surge ? No.Saying that means joining W in denying reality.
I was against the Surge (as I had been against the War). And if I had known advance what this actual result was going to be I would have still been against the Surge.
But I’m also for acknowledging reality even when that means admitting I was wrong.
HRC is responding to “Yes We Can” today in Ohio originally with “Yes We Will.” Innovative, solution oriented to be sure, but the plagueristic signs haven’t been printed yet.
She either
1) Needs to get 60% of every single state
2) Steal Michigan and Florida– trying to force a steal Obama abided by the agreement by not even putting himself on the ballot in Michigan–hundreds of thousands of his voters in both states did not come out.
3) Steal the Superdelegates.
It’s going to be 3 strikes for her on all above counts.
The DNC is taking the bull by the horns by praying that there will be a clear winner so they won’t have to undo the clusterfuck they participated in with Michigan and Ohio.
It’s a bit like praying for rain when you’re running out of water.
The surge has not been a significant improvement on any front, and
More U.S. Troops Seen In Iraq By Summer
The Fiasco and Mistake Cascade Rolls On
You can bet the Clintons will not go quietly into that good night. Ha, ha.
Some of this is well-taken, but I believe this is simply incorrect:
the violence level hasn’t actually dropped at all if you count the violence that we’re inflicting, particularly on civilians
From what I can tell, there is widespread agreement that Iraqi civilian deaths have indeed significantly declined. And unless I’m misreading, the link here doesn’t call that into question. That fact doesn’t mean the new strategy has achieved what it was supposed to – it hasn’t. And it doesn’t mean Iraqi civilian deaths are at an acceptable level – they’re not. But there are fewer Iraqis dying now, and that is good.
PW thank you so much for even more info, and you write so well, but I have to quibble with you about the war frame – when you use it, they win, you lose.
I’ll let George Lakoff say it
I agree.
Democrats are just missing the boat here.
There has often been misinterpretation of Obama’s “present votes” during his time in the Illinois legislature by Clinton and also by an attorney at FDL– and by several firepuppies supporting Clinton who have no clue as to what the rules are in the Illinois legislature.
LHP commented this way on the present votes:
In fact on the Planned Parenthood vote, Obama was requested expressly to vote “present” by Planned Parenthood:
I’d like to clarify this once and for all. In addition to voting “present” at the express request of many women’s organizations in the Illinois legislature–the significance of the present vote in the Illinois legislature needs to be clarified. Voting present does not mean you’re being neutral and dont have the guts or integrity to commit. That is the case in the U.S. Congress where not showing up is the ultimate indication of not committing as was demonstrated by Clinton on FISA last week when her limo driver was literally miles from Congress at the time of the vote.
Voting Present in the Illionis legislature is essentially a “No” vote and it is a no vote with context because of their rules.
This was underscored by a former Illinois legislator in an op ed in today’s NYT. This particular Illinois legislator’s legal background is of some note. “Abner J. Mickvah has been an Illinois state legislator, a United States congressman, a federal judge and, from 1994 to 1995, White House counsel. He now directs the Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School.”
Mikva was a judge on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals when Bill Clinton tapped him to become White House Counsel during the Clinton administration.
In Today’s Op Ed ‘Present’ Perfect by former Clinton White House Counsel Abner J. Mikvah Mikvah writes about the Clinton’s and several firepuppies including LHP’s misinterpretation of a present vote in the Illinois legislature:
Note: Both Clintons were present at the constitutional law course at Yale Law School, and actually taught constitutional law at the University of Arkansas in the 1970’s.
There is not a constitutional law professor in the country who
1) lacks internet access
2) does not have access to Westlaw and Lexis
3) Is incapable of drilling the rules of the Illinois Senate to context what a present vote really means.
I am delighted to clarify the present votes by Obama in the Illinois Senate.
I know you probably won’t see this, but thank-you for helping clear up a huge confusion on my part re; what those votes really meant. I’m sensing hope (tempered with caution though :)) I hope he stays safe and is for real.
It’s difficult for people to know the complicated rules of every state, and I’m finding it mind boggling to try to get my arms around the many different rules in the Democratic primaries/caucuses.
But the people who blogged to beat up on Obama’s “present votes” who had tons of resources to find out the context of those votes and didn’t choose to exercise them, should have taken the time and care to see what the votes meant.
Instead they used the present votes literally and tried to blow a poker game way out of proportion, as well as a number of other issues that I felt got distorted. I don’t believe Obama has shown a record of being “wishy-washy” since he got out of college–I think it’s the opposite. And while a freshman Senator he went out on a limb to try to pass ethics legislation and to curb ear marks.
There has been a web site instuted now by the Senate and House now to solicit earmarks unfortunately IMO.
sorry–mind boggling not mine boggling