This needn’t have been stirred up. It is counterproductive for much needed work at the Congressional and local races level — taking our eyes off the electoral ball, aided by media ginning up a pie fight because that sells papers and ratings.
The Boston Globe printed quotes from Wolfson’s Clinton media call which intimated that the superdelegates were an important part of their convention strategy, and that he expected pledged delegates to vote for Hillary Clinton. Hmmm…Clinton campaign maneuvers in a media posturing call. The news here is? Let’s read between the lines:
"We don’t make distinctions between delegates chosen by million of voters in a primary and those chosen between tens of thousands in caucuses,” Wolfson said. "And we don’t make distinctions when it comes to elected officials” who vote as superdelegates at the convention.
"We are interested in acquiring delegates, period,” he added.
As I said to several people yesterday, Wolfson — a smart operator — publicly posturing on superdelegates says that their support may be softening and they are trying to shore up pledges.
A superdelegate vote is only as solid as the public opinion numbers of the moment. A pledge is not enforceable. Because most are elected officials, the public mood counts for how their votes are ultimately cast at the DNC in August, which is a long way off in terms of primary votes to come.
And in scoots AdNags, fanning the "Dems in disarry" discord within the party (as if he has any other objective ever). It doesn’t help that Mark Penn decided to big foot his way into the conversation, managing to insult the hell out of people in the little states by intimating that they count for less. To wit:
“I think for superdelegates, the quality of where the win comes from should matter in terms of making a judgment about who might be the best general election candidate,” said Mark Penn, Mrs. Clinton’s senior campaign adviser.
It may be what he thinks mathematically, but his tin eared rampant idiocy doesn’t win friends in smaller states. And the Clinton campaign can ill-afford to offend when every delegate counts. (They really need to muzzle him from speaking publicly.)
Is the Clinton camp the only one working this superdelegate wooing strategery? No siree:
Sometime tonight, after the House and Senate finish voting, members of Congress who are backing Barack Obama’s presidential bid will huddle in the Capitol Hill living room of Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.) to map strategy to capture more superdelegates for the Illinois senator.
Obama’s top congressional superdelegate wranglers will aim to be there: On the House side, Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.) and Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who is handling the Senate portfolio. Mike Robertson, Obama’s delegate and congressional relations coordinator, is also expected to be on hand. They will go over lists of possible recruits broken down by state, region and by particular interests….
Obama has a campaign-within-a-campaign targeting the superdelegates, with Matt Nugen, the national political director, and Jeff Berman, the national director of delegate operations and ballot access, keeping tabs as campaign chief David Plouffe oversees the process, parceling out who calls whom. Clinton’s superdelegate drive is being run by Harold Ickes, a longtime strategist for the Clintons who is known for his mastery of Democratic National Committee rules.
Bottom line: superdelegates are a key consideration — since the McGovern campaign left a bad taste in the mouths of the powerbrokers. Both candidates have been working this all along because it is smart strategy. Ask Ted Kennedy how it worked when he ran against Jimmy Carter…when his party stalwart support advantage evaporated in the months leading up to the DNC as Carter’s public polling numbers climbed. To fail to work this would be stupid politics — and both candidates and their advisors are more than savvy.
All this public posturing and behind the scenes wooing? Turns out my theory on Wolfson worrying about softening superdelegate support may have been on the mark. Via NYTimes:
Representative John Lewis, an elder statesman from the civil rights era and one of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s most prominent black supporters, said Thursday night that he planned to cast his vote as a superdelegate for Senator Barack Obama in hopes of preventing a fight at the Democratic convention….
Mr. Lewis, who carries great influence among other members of Congress, disclosed his decision in an interview in which he said that as a superdelegate he could “never, ever do anything to reverse the action” of the voters of his district, who overwhelmingly supported Mr. Obama….
His comments came as fresh signs emerged that Mrs. Clinton’s support was beginning to erode from some other African-American lawmakers who also serve as superdelegates. Representative David Scott of Georgia, who was among the first to defect, said he, too, would not go against the will of voters in his district.
And so it will go so long as public opinion rushes toward Obama in primary wins and momentum. If Clinton starts taking the delegate lead again, the delegate flipping will slow. But Obama’s momentum is tangibly showing in superdelegate volatility, which both candidates are watching closely and publicly posturing on to gain advantage.
Why go through this in such detail? Because paranoia doesn’t help any of us and neither does invective. Tensions are high because the primary fight is close. And stupid-ass public statements like this one from an anonymous Obama supporter that the Politico gleefully uses to add to the "Dems in disarray" narrative do not help that:
One Obama superdelegate, a House member, had sharp criticism for the superdelegate racial and gender make-up, a reaction that reflects the sensitivities surrounding the issue.
“It’s still the old guard, the white men. They always want to control the outcome,” the superdelegate said. “But this time, they won’t be able to do it.”
That strong response could portend a messy intra-party fight in the event that superdelegates cast the decisive votes for the nominee.
Clearly Mark Penn hasn’t cornered the market on foot in mouth disease. Is it any wonder I’ve had it with the squabbling from the primaries? How on earth is something like that said publicly to a reporter thought to be at all helpful for making certain we don’t get BushCo redux from John McCain for another 4 years?
(Pink Floyd performing Comfortably Numb. Fits my mood. *And yes, Skippy coined that.)
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Christy!
Morning Christy! Hope The Peanut is feeling better.
Small spelling error:
Thanks much — missed that in my edit. Much appreciated.
The Peanut is feeling a bit better today — her fever broke finally at around 4 am this morning, after a sort of up and down night last night. She’s playing a bit more today, which is great news…but we’re taking it slow. Her preschool teacher said some of the kids have taken a couple of weeks to get past this particular version of ick, but I’m hoping she’ll tackle it this weekend with some extra rest.
coupla things on topic
first, I like the super delegate system, they don’t vote as a block, they vote for the interest groups they are asigned, for instance, native americans have a delegate count, laborers, nurses, groups like this and they vote the interest of their group, they don’t vote as a block
this is a good thing and it helps guarantee a candidate will promote the progressive issues we asign delegates
why shouldn’t candidates campaign for these delegates just as they for states and caucus delegates?
that’s point one, now point two
I was listening to randi rhodes, I sent this tip off to the firedoglake tip line and I hope somebody does a post on it;
according to the floridian, the republicans forced them into voting for earlier primaries by including paper ballots on the initiative, no early primary, no paper ballot in the general
if this info is true, we have been played like a plastic guitar
The “new” Clinton poll they keep talking about on the teevee was apparently taken prior to Super Tuesday…
Well, it is sure going to be interesting to see what happens. The whole country is starting to stand up and the people aren’t going to take it anymore.
If McCain were to ultimately “win”, I’d bet on mass chaos.
Oooo….good to hear that!
I first noticed CNN including supers in their delegate totals. It took a bit to realize what was going on. Predictably, much of BigMedia followed and few people outside of the blogs understand the difference. MSNBC has never included supers in their totals.
There is a positive to this, and that’s that many people are learning more detail about the electoral process, which is good for our Republic as a whole.
Guy on MSNBC….even if the country wants Obama, the superdelegates could come in and decide they want the “establishment” candidate.
Fearmongering….
What the hell is the “establishment” candidate? The corporate candidate? The white candidate? What the hell are they talking about?
I hate the MSM.
Superdelegates- like most everything in politics- are great when they favor your candidate and an abomination when they don’t. I don’t pay much attention to the gnashing of teeth on this issue.
OT:
I called Conyers office to congratulate him on contempt citations and to stand tall in conference on telco immunity.
they were thrilled to hear from this out-of-state boy.
asked my name and didnt give a whooooooooooooooot for my zip code.
Smart thinking — it’s really way, way premature to be having a bunch of outrage on something so decidedly not settled.
The satellite is a “toxic, metal-armored, bus-sized iceberg”, and might be a “slush ball” on reentry (I guess a temperature of around 2,000F tends to melt things…D’oh).
I love how they elaborate everything…
Christy: Thanks for expanding on the superdelegate issue. Great job. Like you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the candidates working the superdelegates, though I think contributing to their campaign coffers is something akin to a bribe, no matter who does it. But I *do* draw the line where semi-official party apparatuses get involved in trying to nullify their impact on the convention as DFA’s petition is trying to do. That bugs me a lot because it feels like Jim Dean is carrying out a lieutenant’s duties for his older brother and trying to swing the convention to Obama.
If I am a Clinton supporter, I need to think twice as to whether my pledge money to DFA is going to be used to benefit my candidate’s opponent. Until the nominee is decided or until DFA works just as hard to seat the Florida delegation, I am going to be withholding my money from DFA.
Come together at The Confluence.
give me that number, I want to call conyers also
A couple points:
1. August is a long, long ways away. A lot of things can change between now and then.
2. Clinton would have been smart to have sh*tcanned Penn a month or two ago. No wonder Blackwater’s got so many (well-deserved) problems; if they’re using his firm to lobby. They spent something like $7 million in Iowa – there were surely better ways to spend that cash.
3. “Inevitability” only works as a strategy when you win – otherwise you look silly. Particularly when you don’t build a ground game for the later primaries. You wind up looking like the Germans invading Russia and not buying winter uniforms because it’s inevitable you’re going to win before winter gets there. Worked really well for them, too.
4. I always saw the “push up the early primaries” as a ploy by/on behalf of HRC and her campaign to grab an early lead and momentum and scare off the rest of the candidates and particularly their fundraising. Silly, since there’s a huge gap in the summer and everyone’s fed up with presidential coverage by May. Plus, it gives the Wurlitzer a couple months’ free shot at the putative candidate.
Good move. I’ll probably make a call or two later today to complement.
Everyone should.
It’s not enough to yell and scream when they do wrong – you’ve got to praise effusively when they do right.
I do think the payment to Penn was awfully high for Iowa, unless that included some strategic positioning for a whole lot of other states down the road in that total that happened to get expensed around that time — always possible. But any way you slice it, $7 million is a lot of cash to allot that early in a campaign for someone who has, over and over again, made an ass out of himself on the campaign’s behalf in media interviews. I really do not get it…but then, that’s probably why I am not a Beltway Insider of the Village. *G*
2426 Rayburn Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-5126
(202) 225-0072 Fax
2615 W. Jefferson
Trenton, MI 48183
(734) 675-4084
(734) 675-4218 Fax
669 Federal Building
231 W. Lafayette
Detroit, MI 48226
(313) 961-5670
is there a list of numbers where people actually pick up the phone?
those would be the offices of the honorable John Conyers, Jr. D-MI.
Has anyone else read David Brooks this morning? He’s inventing a new kind of conservatism (he thinks). Here’s the opening paragraph:
“In the 19th century, industrialization swept the world. Many European nations expanded their welfare states but kept their education systems exclusive. The U.S. tried the opposite approach. American leaders expanded education and created the highest quality work force on the planet.”
So europe exapanded it’s welfare state in the 19th century? That vaunted welfare state described by Dickens?
The article goes down hill from there.
These fuckers are INSANE!
The Florida issue has been known for quite a while. Marcy’s written about it as have a lot of the local bloggers in Florida, and TPM, among others I think.
Agreed. It looks as though it’s highly unlikely they will overturn the popular vote for either candidate.
Oh, yea. I called the DC office and they were nice–and said you should talk to the Judiciary Committee; connected me right away and the woman there was thrilled.
I told them he is my hero.
Huzzah Christy.
Deep breaths all around.
-G
This is true. The same bill that gave us our paper trail also moved the primary.
Conyers has been pushing to get these votes for ages. He doesn’t control the floor vote — that’s Hoyer and Pelosi’s baliwick — and he really does deserve kudos for being incredibly persistent at pushing this forward and raising interest in it throughout the Dem caucus against what started out as very long Blue Dog odds.
Wanting to play is always a good sign. :})
I was sick one year at Christmas when I was six, got all these toys and didn’t want to have a thing to do with them. Later on that Christmas day, I decided I wanted to play with everything. That’s when Mom discovered I had the measles.
Christy: Don’t hold back, what do you really think? *g* (btw – I agree with you).
Christy,
I sent you an email, several days ago. Did you get it?
I really wish folks would take a deep breath and contemplate motive and intent a bit more behind a lot of this before hurling invective at each other. It’s as though all comprehension of the art of spin goes out the window when you put your heart on the line for a particular candidate. I can sympathize, certainly, with supporting someone — but not at the expense of actual facts, surely.
More from the insane Brooks:
“That progress stopped about 30 years ago. The percentage of young Americans completing college has been stagnant for a generation. As well-educated boomers retire over the next decades, the quality of the American work force is likely to decline. Mitt Romney captured the consequences in his withdrawal statement: “I am convinced that unless America changes course, we will become the France of the 21st century — still a great nation, but no longer the leader of the world.”
America is going into the shitter because the generation taking the place of baby boomers is less educated as measured by percentage with college degrees? Well other than being EXACTLY BACKWARDS- Brooks has a GREAT point…
Unbelievable. Doesn’t anyone read this guy’s shit before he embarasses himself and the NYT with it? Incredible.
Heya — I did, just haven’t had time to respond with the sick Peanut demanding laptime. Am just beginning to wade through my five days of backed-up e-mails and will hopefully get time to respond today at some point…
I was watching FoxNews this morning and the hosts were saying that Obama and HRC are handing out checks to super delegates. Of course, they gave no details just snarky remarks filled with innuendo.
What is this about?
Not really O.T. Amazing shift, Obama pulls ahead in Texas polls: http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..68/457400. In the hispanic vote, Clinton is ahead 44% to 42% – major change there too.
Man, Obama’s giving an amazing speech right now…with SPECIFICS…lots of ‘em.
He’s making John Edwards sound like Newt.
Live here:
http://media.myfoxmilwaukee.com/live/index.html
man, I just had a GREAT conversation with one of the attendants, she was SO GUIDY with the praise I heaped on conyers
then I gave her my brand;
‘what if they produce an invention of mine with my information, immunity prevents me from recovering that”
she was THRILLED with the conversation.
I had a great friggin time, everyone go call conyers
As with the Doughy Pantload trying to historically revise what fascism is, the GOP, seeing their sinking fortunes are trying to reinvent what they are.
Apparently the modern GOP is the paragon of African-American acceptence.
They are of course ignoring the last 40 years and trying to hitch their wagon back on to Lincoln.
There are at least 3 books out now, two by African-Americans that are trying to pitch this new idea….Because the GOP sees that they are up against a demographic apocalypse if they don’t appeal to a wider group of voters besides Southern, white Christians.
-G
Also they are doing a subterranean effor to tie Sen. Obama to Adolph Hitler(See Crooks anbd Liars today) becuase of his speaking talents. I can’t seem to recall that giving a good speech was considered such a detriment in the 80’s when Ronald Reagan was dubbed ‘the Great Communicator’.
Sen. Obama makes America feel better, just like Ronald Reagan. Use that frame anytime some GOP-er tries to shit on him.
Donations made to the campaigns of superdelagates. It’s nothing new (the practice) but they need something. At first they were trying to make a big deal out of the differences in the total amount that both had contributed but there is no time period attached to those numbers (as far as when they stopped/started) so it’s just MSM futter.
Campaign contributions from PAC money to various elected official potential superdelegate PACs that are unaligned, I suspect. Unfortunately, all too common a tactic every election cycle — some folks hold out support and this is one way to court it.
Same way the Bushies bought their way in on the GOP side of things in 2000 with some of the Republican sidelined folks, mind you, at Rove’s behest, but I sincerely doubt Faux News criticized them for it at the time.
And now the WSJ is clobbering Obama for being too much like Edwards and Kuchinich (he must be doing something right).
So coolio – I mean, I can wait.
Laptime is Way More Important, at this point.
Sending a virtual hug to you and a virtual back rug for the P.
PS — My twenty year old son is in the (way too slow process, for my taste) process of moving back in with me.
Woke up to find him on the couch.
But…there was a second head there. Sweet young things….
Oh. My.
Really, no biggie, but, I Really want the boys to put that other bedroom together This Weekend.
Just, showing you some perspective about Lap Time. :) ‘Cause time goes by So Quickly.
Does Brooks realize that 30 years ago was almost to the year the arrival of the GOP domination of American politics?
-G
TEE HEE
I thought when I first read it that he was using his pac money to support their election bids in the last go around. (No doubt he also had an eye on the upcoming election) but lots of politicians (quite rightly) use their money to help lesser financed candidates. It also goes to differences between Obama and Clinton. One of the critiques of her (and Bill) is/was that they were all about themselves rather than the party as a whole.
What will it take to use a voting system that has a first and second choice?
(instant run-off). No more electoral college on horseback; no more super-
duper represenative that represent a group of something or other. Looking
for a clean running republic here.
The Noize Machine won’t stand a chance against this. I’ve never heard and seen such a populist uprising in my life. This is the middle-class rising up and saying, “We’re not going to take it anymore.”
Getting chills watching this speech. Probably the best one I’ve ever seen from him. He’s almost as good as Michelle now at speechmaking.
He is really hitting his stride.
wow…new right wing strategy? Equate Obama to Hitler? I need brain shampoo after reading nonsense. It’s just offensive on every level.
link
Yup. I agree completely. Interestingly, I noted yesterday that on the 60 minute interview Obama noted that early on he was critiqued for being too professorial (I remember this too) and so he changed the message. But now he is bringing the too together.
If we all took this a bit less seriously and enjoyed a good laugh over two over some of the ridiculous aspects of this nomination tussle, we would be better off.
Now, I would not normally recommend Mitch McConnell as a sourse of levity, but I thought the following was pretty funny.
Yeah- they are DESPERATE enough to espouse something like free higher education in return for burning the fragile safety net.
I just can’t believe that the NYT lets Brook get away with a column based on shit that is simply, objectively, and demonstrably FALSE!
The percentage of americans with a bachelor’s degree reached an all time high in 2000 at about 25%.
Now I’m lost in Pink Floyd. That’s how I felt this morning when Repugs did the mighty grandstand before the cameras on Dems leaving for vacation – I can see your lips move but I can’t hear what you are saying. They numb my brain.
On the superdelegates and twists and turns, I went through some of this in the last election and we ended up with Kerry, not a favorite, so Edwards was added to the ticket to make it palatable. It was ticket of oil and water.
What do I see this time? Panic and desperation and outlandish speculation. Way too many stupid comments in press and in candidate camps! The one thing the Hillary camp has not factored is the Obama momenteous wave that is building on its own dynamic force. Superdelegates are running from side to side trying to figure where this thing is going to hit. Either they are swept along and roll with it or they better climb the highest tree because it cannot be stopped.
No matter what Mark Penn or Politico or any pundit says, there words are falling on barren soil.
I tried this out last night in response to that, but you know how, “when a bell rings, and angel gets its wings?”
Well, when a Republican laughs, an angel gets waterboarded.
Oh damn. Obama’s going after McCandyCain!
It’s almost comical to think about those two running against each other. Obama is making St John look pathetic.
OMG! He’s really funny too!
I was at a lecture last night that left me at once shocked and deeply saddened. It was on college admission stats, financial aid, etc. and noted that in a very few years the percentage of students from non-wealthy families (i.e. those who can’t afford the half a million dollar board/tuition (over four years) will begin to hover around 1% because there simply will not be enough financial aid to support them. (The speaker was addressing mostly private schools (but many publics are mostly privates too). And, I may have misheard/misrepresented the stats – by quite a bit- but this will be a HUGE shift from now and a generation ago (aided by the G.I. bill group). It will have major implications not only on American society but also our ability to compete as a nation.
Please quit watching Foxnews and giving them ratings which allows them to make more money, which perpetuates the vicious cycle. :-)
I wouldn’t put it past Faux to cobble together something from several election cycles. It’s not as though politicians of all stripes don’t do this frequently — see Tom DeLay’s history in John Anderson’s Follow the Money for a real bribe for power scheme in action if you want to see the worst of it. Helping out downticket races or folks who need a hand from poorer districts to shore up Democratic possibilities is neither new nor incomprehensible, given how much money has been flowing through the campaign coffers on both sides. But when you factor in how much has been flowing through the hands of folks like Abramoff, Reed, Norquist and such from the KStreet machine to the GOP? Anything Obama and Clinton have managed to send out looks like chicken feed.
LOL Thanks bonkers, I’m going to have to remember that!
Yep, I agree. And if News Corp buys a portion of Yahoo, I’ll immediately move my mail account to gmail.
QuakerGirl: click on my name for a couple of photos contrasting the treatment when House Republicans protest on the steps of the Capitol with what happens when Iraq war veterans are there.
I know what you’re saying and agree with your major points. Please though, compare Obama’s speaking abilities to JFK or Mario Cuomo, any among several great Democratic speakers. Don’t raise the praise of Reagan issue again. I really never understood how, “there you go again,” “Sir, I’m paying for this microphone,” and “Well, uh,” were great communication anyway.
All of the above is stated with a light, mostly teasing, tone.
It also matches up with the demise of the old GI bill. The bill put in place after WWII put vast numbers of college educated workers into the work force. That changed after 1975 when benefits became much more paltry.
Obama is (appropriately) on fire. I am shivery. This man can do it. Kiddo, are you there? You’re right. I’m in.
A college degree is on average, an e-ticket to higher wages. It should be affordable to all.
Brooks would probably love to say that- but it’s way too unconservative- so read what he says instead (remember- this is the NEW conservatism):
like the intact middle-class ones, we wouldn’t have nationally low education outcomes. Married men earn 10 percent to 40 percent more than single men with similar skills, and their children are much more likely to graduate from high school. But among the lower-middle class, there is a poisonous spiral of economic stress and cultural decay.
A new working class tax credit applied against the payroll tax would reduce some of the stress. So would a larger child tax credit and increases in the Earned Income Tax Credit. The federal budget should bestow less on seniors and more on young families.
The second group of policies would involve early-childhood education. There could be nurse-home visits for children in chaotic homes so that they have some authority in their lives. Preschool should be radically expanded and accountability programs put in place.
Third, the next president has to loosen the grip of the teachers’ unions. Certification rules have to be radically reformed to attract qualified college graduates. Merit pay has to become the norm. Reforming superintendents need the freedom to copy the models — like KIPP Academies — that actually work.
Fourth, Democrats like to talk about college affordability, but that’s the least important explanation for why so many students don’t complete college. The real reasons are that students are academically unprepared and emotionally disengaged. National service should be a rite of passage for 20-somethings, and these volunteers could mentor students through high school and college years.
Fifth, portable health insurance and retraining accounts would give adult workers security. Income taxes are not going to be coming down, but they need to stay where they are. As Edward Prescott has shown, higher taxes mean less work, and less work means less worker development.
You are right, and fox is just getting into gear. But, this time there will be with double bladed knife. If Obama gains large positives among moderate Republicans (even the more radical Huckabees) and Independents (to say nothing of the Dems) Fox risks really infurating these viewers if they go after Obama in ways that are seen to be over the top, and they will lose viewers to the other stations which are seen to be more even. This is also the problem for Limbaugh, which may be why (as a smart radio personality) he may be feigning support of Obama. Otherwise he too would risk losing his core listeners. (Not too many Mcwar supporters are probably Limbaugh fans.
Absolutely. We’ve already got Ari Fleischer’s group with a goal of $250 million for this election cycle, and with the number of Billionaires already on board, they should have no problem.
BigMoney is not going to go down easy.
(BTW, the Obama speech just ended, and honestly…I’m speechless…and typeless about it….Shockingly good.)
Let me/us know when/if this is up on youtube if you would. Thanks.
same, i didn’t have the right plug-in for the pox news site.
Now then . . . Christy! The superdelegate post is absolutely awesome. Reeling in half-informed, well-meaning folks (see barbara raise hand) who swallowed the bait and are now trying to hurl it back up. Yes, that kind of hurl. Thank you. I have a writing deadline to meet and promised myself I wouldn’t linger here today. The thing is, I can’t afford not to.
On Fleischer’s group and the 250 million, someone here I think (Jane? Christy?) already deconstructed this. Apparently they have far less money on hand, as evidenced by the fact that to date they have purchased very little by way of advertisements.
I am glad you are doing this and will read up. I know many are elected officials, many are virtually locked into who their state/district elects, etc (so what is the point if its directly proprotional…if people want to go let them but do they need a vote?).
But under or over all that I am guessing this does not change the basics that:
1. MILLIONS of people vote.
2. A few hundred people can throw out the votes of MILLIONS of people.
So how is that democracy in the Democratic party?
Because someone working for Greenpeace wants to vote for a candidate they can pick (over all the other Greenpeace voters that voted in the primaries), or because someone used to work for a candidate and can get a job in their administartion….
Will do.
Thanks!
Honestly, I wouldn’t really expect them to be doing much yet. There are several multi-Billionaires on their board, so if they decide to get moving, they can have that money in no time I’m thinking.
They might just concede the Presidency if it’s Obama, but I would imagine they’d try hard to gain Congressional power.
I suppose they might just realize no amount of money will change the momentum and hibernate and save it forr down the road, when they decide to launch some other nefarious plans.
Maybe wait for the general election t into full islamofear mode.
But WAIT
Brooks was LYING about the flattening of the percentage that is college educated- it continues to INCREASE annually….He doesn’t research facts- he MAKES EM UP!
You are right on so much of this. What I also see however is that with parents working 2 and 3 jobs, they are not home to supervise, encourage homework. And, too often kids take after school and week-end jobs to help out (themselves and their parents) and then the importance of education gets lost.
If goopers manage to stage manage another islamofascist “attack” on american soil between now and the election- McBush wins. They know this.
I am talking about addressing wingnuts. You have to come right back at them. They already think JFK was a fascist or whatever. But using the comparison to Reagan leaves a GOP dumbfounded.
-G
So after my second conversation with a congressman’s staff, they were so impressed they implored me to write down my thoughts and send it to her personally, where she would get the “framing” that I use off to some people she would like to see
I am having a friggin ball this morning
NO, it means that all the fear rhetoric will have been for nothing.
-G
Think tanks galore. More Media control. Things like that which can gain them influence perhaps years later. They did this already in the late 60s and 70s, and it started bearing fruit for them the last 10-20 years especially.
Hopefully, we’ll be able to keep a spotlight on this stuff this time with the Internet, and prevent it from working again.
Ruturd Murdoch is making a play for Yahoo, and if that happens I’ll have to switch my email account. I just read his daughters company just gobbled up an Internet company this week in Englund. One of his son’s companies has been buying up small media companies. His takeover of MySpace has been a boon for him.
I really wish people would boycott companies he owns. I refuse to start a MySpace page for instance. I’m beginning to worry about consolidation around the Internet now. We have options! We must support those options or they will go away.
BTW, there’s a nice link in the upper right of this page that says, “Support This Site.” Might be a good to do that.
I have to disagree. They have been touting their success at keeping the
saudisterrorists at bay. A second attack would surely indicate that the goopers had no bloody clue?Ready for something pretty amazing? This from MSNBC 3 hours ago- the real clincher is a piece in the comment section by Dante: He puts out there the different subjects of the bills that Obama and Clinton have sponsored in the Senate since arrival. This in my view goes a long way to answering some of the substance stuff. (By the way, if there is someone more skilled than I am in the technology of tubes who wants to cut and paste Dante’s comments alone into comments here or a post, it would be great. Here it is:
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..67808.aspx
If they could raise that kind of money they’d have donated to the GOP party and senate and congress committees.
This is part of their bullying and fearmongering.
They are worse off than they were in 2006.
Bullies always crumble when their aura of invincibility is punctured.
-G
I am amazed the democrats allowed that kind of string pulling
I think we should therefore definately have a proper primary
I agree. And (as with K.O.and what Nancy Pelosi did yesterday) it is great that we are able to get out there that they are basically ghosts (i.e. very scary, but there is no there, there, except in our/their imaginations).
Haven’t read all comments. Bush and Darth meeting/met w/Republicans, flogging Dems, saying failure to act RIGHT NOW, TODAY, THIS MINUTE on illegal eavesdropping (um, my words, not his) putting country in peril! Danger! Even these days of waiting escalates the DANGER. Bad juju. All the fault of the Dems. Booga booga.
I do not feel all the money in the world is going to change the country’s mood. People are fed up with War, Torture, lying and the threat that if we do not pass this piece of legislation then Americans will die B.S. The Republicans looked so small. desperate and pathetic yesterday. People are finally waking up from the scare slumber.
The Chimp who cried Wolf.
-G
Bring ‘em on.
The sheep who cried wolf?
The VA was one of the major stumbling blocks for returning Vietnam vets. They refused to accept them maintaining it was a “police action” and not a declared war. Vietnam vets were not veterans as WWII vets were. It was a nasty fight for years. 1975 the G.I. Bill that was so helpful for WWII vets (buying homes, education, getting jobs, medical services) were deliberately cut back for the Vietnam vets.
It took years and years before the VA accepted the Vietnam vets. It was many of the activists in the peace movement who spent years putting pressure on congress and the VA to give the same aid to Vietnam vets as WWII vets. Now the VA is silent on this ugly period in their history. Amazing, how that works.
And the fact that they would let Protect America Act expire to protect the phone companies means they would directly be responsible for the attack. Because as K.O. said last night, one thing for sure is the George Bush is never responsible for anything!
I’ve heard Obama talk about how his grandparents were able to stay afloat and raise his mother largely with the help of the G.I. Bill. I would expect him to want to support similar efforts.
Hmmm. That’s the most persuasive argument for Obama I’ve heard, by far.
Anchor is set to hang itself around albatross.
Bush set to endorse McCain and in the process piss all over evangelicals hopes for Huckabee.
-G
Interesting. And you know about the California situation, right. They used to have major funds for education, which then were cut to support prisons as per the new sentencing laws. Prisons are much more costly, and train, well, prisoners to become better criminals. University education creates informed adults who go on to make important contributions to society. (And that is not even adding the race issue into the sentencing).In short, we need a new GI bill, but for everyone.
Ya, blew my mind too. Like wow.
That can’t be exactly right. I was a Viet Nam era vet (1965-1969) and got the same benefits as WWII vets. I got a VA home loan and VA payments for graduate school, the same as they did except the amounts had gone up. The law changed sometime after that to the Montgomery G.I. Bill, which had much lower benefits.
Yeah, and if something were to happen…I know who I’d suspect right off the bat.
No fear.
Bring it on.
*ssholes.
Check out Emptywheel’s Bandar post!!!!
We’re watching you Bushco.
There were no men in my family during WWII. They were all in the Pacific or in Europe. Everyone was part of the war effort. When they returned from battle fields, they received all kinds of assistance for the rest of their lives in some cases. They bought homes (couldn’t do that without the G.I. Bill), got jobs (ready and waiting for them), received good medical care resulting from the war, received a disability pention for the rest of their lives which went to my aunt when my uncle died, education and skills training. The country thrived and they did well.
It was an investment in ourselves and it paid off multiple times.
I’ve got my fingers crossed for Leavenworth, at least.
Was this at the time we privatized prisons?
“People are finally waking up from the scare slumber.”
We can only hope.
DNI McConnell to NPR yesterday:
BushCo claims that, lacking retroactive immunity, the telcos will refuse to comply with future governmental requests for surveillance assistance. But telcos are already legally obligated to comply with LEGAL governmental requests and have automatic immunity when they do so.
The real real issue is criminal protection for members of the Bush administration, which is included in the retroactive immunity package.
I recall listening to an npr story where Bill Gates (microsoft) and the effect of the GI Bill on his father, who was able to go to engineering school, get a job at Boeing(I think), get a house, etc. all setting the stage for what followed with Bill Gates. His father was a farm kid – no one in his family had ever gone past high school. What we tend to forget is that before the GI Bill, going to college was generally a rich person’s game unless you lived someplace like NYC, where there was the availability of City College, which was free.
Clusterfuck can just issue a blanket pardon that will cover everyone in the administration who spied illegally- EXECPT FOR HIMSELF.
I don’t think a pardon works against civil suits though- so maybe that’s the rub.
The Vietnam era GI bill ended on 12/31/76. I think to be eligible for it, one had to have at least entered delayed enlistment program by that date. I wanted to make sure there was no problem so entered active duty on 12/10/76 just to be safe. I was 24 and there were a lot of others in the 21-28 age range went active in the USAF about that same time.
“The real real issue is criminal protection for members of the Bush administration, which is included in the retroactive immunity package.”
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We’re talking war crimes, people. And they know it.
Thus the fever for getting immunity passed.
What this country needs is to privatize more shit and name it for Dead Ronnie.
It’s always been about the payoff for the telecoms to keep their mouths shut about what Bush/Cheney was asking them to hoover in from their transmittal services. I’d love to see them put Addington on the spot about this at some point, but we’re not likely to see it publicly given the implications on the national security issues and the likely assertion of both executive privilege (is there a FourthBranch assertion thereof?) and national security secrecy that he’d throw out.
But this reeks of Addington’s hand in pushing it on behalf of Cheney’s unilateral power grab pretensions, doesn’t it?
No doubt. This was the era when America really became solidified as the world’s “superpower.” It directly correlates to when we invested in the most important resource of any organization – its people.
I’ve had many a debate with Repubs about this exact point, and it’s always funny to see how they try to dodge this central fact. They’ll often talk about how we waste so much tax money now so we need to be smarter with it. Of course I can agree on that, but then turn it back into investing in American people and let’s just be sure to make sure programs are working and eliminating as much waste as possible. They agree usually on that point, then realize they’ve just become Liberals…. ;)
Well, the privatizing of prisons is part of it too. But, my understanding is that the prison push goes back earlier.
In 1969 I got almost the same dollar amount as my dad did after WWII. They did raise bennies in subsequent years but it sucked when I got out.
you know, I am really starting to like that bloomberg charachter;
think progress
Christy, is there anywhere a person can go to get reliable information regarding the extent to which the Bu’ushies are claiming to be exempt from any oversight with respect to stuff like eavesdropping and torture? I hear all these allegations, but I’d like to be able to differentiate between the hyperbole and the factual.
than dishonorable discharge” received only $100 a month from which they had to pay for tuition and all of their expenses. Most found this amount to be insufficient. In particular, veterans who had endured the hardships of the Vietnam War recoiled at the government’s failure to provide them with the same generous educational opportunities as their World War II predecessors. Consequently, during the early years of the program, only about 25% of Vietnam veterans used their education benefits. But for the next decade, a battle raged in the government to increase veterans’ benefits. Congress succeeded, often in the face of fierce objections from the fiscally conservative Nixon and Ford Administrations, to raise benefit levels. In 1967, a single veteran’s benefits were raised to $130 a month; in 1970 they rose to $175; under the Readjustment Assistance Act of 1972 the monthly allowance rose to $220; in 1974 it rose to $270, $292 in 1976, and then $311 a month in 1977.
Here’s a (probably lame) question. What about the telecoms that didn’t buy in? Qwest was one of them. Why isn’t anyone (or are they) pursuing them to learn what was being proposed by BushCo?
The prison guard union in Cali is one, if not THE, strongest in the state and so far, nobody has had the nerve to step up against them. They get exactly what they want – more prisons, more guards and more jobs.
That is always the prime mover, dig up Nixon and sanctify him beyond
his own pretensions. Watching Rockefeller threaten to adjourn the
SIC hearing yesterday to control the content of questions from Feingold,
Whitehouse, et.al, was just disgusting. He said they were there to give
the President what he wanted. Jello Jay really is his uncle Nelson’s
boy.
Qwest didn’t “initially” opt-in. EW has covered the ground there if you feel like digging over there a bit.
IIRC, the benefit I received was 45 months worth of the $311 per month. Since I was still on active and taking classes at night, I think the per class rate equaled about a month coverage per class as I think I had used 10 1/2 months worth with eleven classes.
Give him the Rockefeller salute!
You was livin large. . .phat. I had to borrow money and work as a night janitor to afford Illinois. No wonder I was such a pleasant lad!
Thanks. I am interested. The Omerta thing around all of this is very unsettling.
Doublehanded!!
Interesting. It also fits with the right wing pro-prison tough on crime agenda of the era.
OT: But seriously, I think Hillary’s media team is horrible. Just watched a video clip on her biography page from her mother, and she ends with saying, “Hillary was always good, but not too good.”
Yep. That about sums it up for me as well.
A quick talking point to slap down GOP-ers.
If they say that Sen. Obama wants to talk to dictators, ask them what Mao was and how much blood was on his hands when GOP-er Dick Nixon talked to him.
Ask them who Ronald Reagan negotiated with in Rekyavik.
History is our friend, that is why the Doughy Pantloads on the right are trying to revise and rewrite it these days.
-G
The Carlyle Group would like some of that immunity, these goons really
fear lawsuits more than anything, their life blood is cash.
mebbe a little retribution, or not, just sayin’
Yes I was. I was sitting in Hawaii, taking classes at night. If it was a lecture class, it met once a week from 5 to 10:30 for two months. Lab classes met twice a week from 6-8. If I took two classes in a two month period, I could take the next two months off. Took me less than two years to finish the degree since they accepted enough hours in transfer from WKU and CCAF to cover all but the CS courses themselves. And when everyday is a beautiful day, you wind up not minding staying inside on a nice sunny day and studying.
I’m really beginning to feel sorry for Hillary. No matter what she does it’s wrong or not enough or her hair is bad that day, or her suit is the wrong color. You would think from everything that is said that the poor woman is the next thing to a serial killer.
All things possible with BushCo, eh? My best recollection is that Nacchio was tippy-toeing into deep do-do before the NSA matter hit. He was/is by no means a white knight. Even so, Qwest trod where others feared to go. Nary a whitle-blower therein who would tell all? Crikey!
No good answers on that one, I’m afraid — I’ve been piecing things together from public reporting, lots of calls and conversations, public documents, and such, just like everyone else. But a lot of the behind-the-scenes information on all of this is, understandably, quite murky. I do know that Eric Lichtblau of the NYTimes who helped break this story in the first place has been working on a book on the subject that might prove illuminating. But I haven’t seen a copy yet, so I can’t say that for certain. He’s got good contacts, though, so it should be an interesting read.
w h i s t l e (sigh)
They probably used one of the other companies to spy on Naccio without a warrant and then turned around and accused him of insider trading.
I just had an epihpane and it’s came from the post on quest, first read the paste, then my epiphane;
well check this out;
you know how quest was probably prosecuted because they refused to break the law?
suppose the other telecoms were actually blackmailed for illegal activity the government could point out rightn off the top!
this would explain why the president refuses to allow the telecoms to testify as to why they even want immunity
this is kind of strong stuff here, they might have tried to follow the law and were blackmailed otherwise
by the way, I don’t see sprint mentioned in this fisa stuff, I use sprint
did they refuse these requests?
It is disgusting. I haven’t heard anything about McCain’s or Obama’s hair or clothing.
Thanks. The drift you get is that “any independent oversight might reveal sources and methods that would put the Murkin Peeples at Dire Risk of Terrist Attack,” but I’d just like to confirm/disconfirm stuff like that.
I believe that Sprint did not refuse to go along with BushCo.
FWIW and I may be wrong but I believe cell phones are considered radios and they fall outside of the wire tapping laws.
I.E., you use them at your own risk.
you know, that would make some sense to me, I would think we couldn’t really expect privacy on a cell phone and therefore no warrant would be needed
I didn’t think of that
I am an Obama supporter, but I do understand that feeling as well. As FDL has expertly been bringing up, the sexism in America is so wide-spread and insidious and it’s being exposed more than ever just by the fact that Hillary’s running. I truly do feel sorry for her at times as well.
But then I’m reminded about how many years I’ve spent being disgusted by Clinton-style politics and policies, and Hillary is not that much different from Bill in that respect. I literally thought I was losing my mind through the 90s as I was pointing out to fellow Liberals how Bill Clinton was using us for votes, only to sell-out America to the highest bidders, and being told to, “relax, we have a Democrat as Prez. You’re so negative…lighten up.”
Thanks to blogs in particular, I was able to see that there were many of us out there after all, and now we’ve been able to develop programs to stop “Centrist” Dems, which the Clintons, both of them, embody.
Hillary has broken down some barriers already, and as a father with young daughters, I’m happy for that. Her candidacy has sparked a lot of important conversations about sexism in America. I just don’t think she’s the choice to bring about real change to our flawed system that prizes profits over people.
I disagree when people say Barack will set back the women’s movement. In fact, I think he understands these issues quite well, and will cultivate a feeling in current and future generations that anyone can “make it,” whether male or female or the color of your skin.
I’ve never made a critique about Hillary based on hair, or clothes or other sexist stuff, just as I try not to make fun of McCain’s age. That is not cool. I highlighted that video clip to show how she’s being beaten on the strategy front as well by Obama, which also shows leadership abilities and knowing how to put together effective teams.
So I understand feeling sorry for her, but she really has made a lot of very big mistakes along the way.
Hi Christy, hope you’re feeling better.
It’s official – Mark Penn is a moron. “quality of where the win comes from”? Why doesn’t he just say “those little square states in the middle suck, anyway”, and be done with it? I have tin ear, not to mention an aversion to people who seem to live for being offended. Yet even I can see why people would be offended at that one.
The Clintons have carefully played and operated within institutions always. They play that game. Hillary has never hit a sexist ceiling. Her ambitions are quite contrived and safe. This can be said even if she has run for Senate and now for the Presidency.
You may want to check out other stories being reported today that Jessie Jackson, Jr. (co-chair of Obama’s campaign) has been strong-arming Black congress members to either support Obama or lose their seats. If true, this is extremely ugly and could lead to a horrible race war that will almost certainly be exploited by wingnuts in the general. I shudder at what they would do with this.
“establishment” candidate
—-
I think they mean the candidate that the “super delegates” want, the establishment DNC as opposed to the popular vote (or rather the delegates assigned by popular vote….)
Smart thinking — it’s really way, way premature to be having a bunch of outrage on something so decidedly not settled.
—
I though planning was a good thing, could have used more in Iraq War II. Letting things blow up is not really such a good way to approach policy.
How about a poll on super delegates:
1. abolish them now.
2. abolish them in the next election.
3. keep them they are good.
4. dunno.
5. dont care.
What will it take to use a voting system that has a first and second choice?
—
Love this idea always. Might never fly in a “winner” take all society, but that to may change if we start losing.
Also they are doing a subterranean effor to tie Sen. Obama to Adolph Hitler(See Crooks anbd Liars today) becuase of his speaking talents.
—-
I have seen those analogies posted here on FDL (in multiple comments).
Unfortunately many blogs have ginned up resentment for superdelegates. I received an email today from TrueMajorityAction requesting that I sign a petition demanding that superdelegates exactly mirror their constituencies. Of course not every superdelegate has a specific public constituency, but, no matter according to TMA.
So I unsubscribed from any futher emails and then dropped them a line expressing my disgust at their proposal.
On two occasions the Democratic primary in my state was corrupted by organized Republican crossovers. Superdelegates can help to ameliorate such discrepancies.
since the McGovern Commission put us on the road to primaries/caucuses in every state (there were 15 primaries in 1968, up from 13 in 1960)the law of unintended consequences has seriously damaged our political system. As a direct result of the universal primaries the corrupting influence of big money has increased many fold (the cost of running for president has exploded because of the need to run so many campaigns in so many states for so long)and has made government by checkbook standard operating procedure. Picking candidates has been furher corrupted by the open primary allowing independents and crossovers to participate in choosing a candidate that should rightfully be chosen only by those that embrace a general core set of principles that characterize a party and who have committed themselves to the party.
The value of that type of commitment should not be taken lightly. Beginning in 1932 the ’smoke filled rooms’ of the convention deal chose 4 winners and 2 losers. Since 1972 the primary system has chosen 2 winners and 5 losers.
The 4 winners chosen in the smoke filled rooms enacted the most liberal legislation in our nations history. The 2 winners picked via primaries were the most conservative Democrats since Grover Cleveland.
Today our most liberal candidate finished 3rd and is on the sidelines and the nominee will be chosen from the two most conservative of the candidates.
Explain to me again why primaries are better.