St. McCain has officially adopted "Iraq 4 Evah!" as a campaign slogan:
Republican presidential front-runner Sen. John McCain on Thursday defended his statement that U.S. troops could spend "maybe 100" years in Iraq — saying he was referring to a military presence similar to what the nation already has in places like Japan, Germany and South Korea.
This again? For the last time, no Americans were getting killed in those countries 5 years after those wars started. And there weren’t radicalized religious movements in those countries that our occupation was enraging. And two of those countries had actually, you know, declared war on us and stuff. (And by the way, why the hell do we still have troops in Japan and Germany?)
"It’s not a matter of how long we’re in Iraq, it’s if we succeed or not," McCain said to CNN’s Larry King.
Truly the words of a madman. Ahab-esque.
So it really doesn’t matter how many more Americans get killed or many more trillions of dollars it costs. Doesn’t matter if we lose another 4,000 men and women, another 30,000 wounded, spend another more trillion dollars, and kill a few hundred thousand more Iraqis. Doesn’t matter how many more thousands of jihadis our occupation of Iraq is creating. Doesn’t matter!
As long as we can spike the ball in the endzone at some point in the undefined future and say, "We won!!!!"– it’s all good.
What’s missing here, of course, is St. McCain never says precisely what "success" means, what an acceptable price to pay for that "success" is, and at what point does the price we’ve paid to date make "success" by any measure impossible.
Unfortunately for St. McCain, the rest of America has already made up its mind on the matter.
Related posts:
- Disgraceful: In 8 Years, George W. Bush Never Greeted Fallen Troops
- In Iraq, As in So Many Contexts, Withdrawal is Victory
- Frank Rich: McCain Was Wrong On Everything. CNN Treats Him As Sage
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Dahr Jamail, The Will to Resist: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan
- Gen. Ray Ordierno: We May Never Win in Iraq
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BT!
Ah, Ahab, yes that is it, nutter he is.
McWar!!!
Perfect albatross to hang around his neck.
I guess no one pays any attention to me. There was plenty of shooting in Korea after the armistice. I’m not going to bother cutting and pasting it again but this is personal to me.
Your name wouldn’t be Ishmael would it?
It’s official…SEIU endorses Barack.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/n….._obama.php
Nuttier than a fruitcake.
McCain is not Able to get it right.
Why is it that service by the Bush family is never an issue?
Ahab-esque. how true. Watch him on the podium as Mitt gives him his endorsement. he’s imagined that moment, he’s even tripping ahead to the general. he sees it all coming together for him. The Presidency, he can just taste it.
Aw screw it, no one will read it but
THE FORGOTTEN DMZ
Kyle-Lieberman Yea Yea Yea!
Against Levin Amendment–Okey Dokey!
Vote to Authorize Force in Iraq–Yippee Yippee!
And now we have never ending
Dover Coffins
Money Hemmorhage
Blowing up of poor American Kids from Ethnic Minorities
Leiberman Girls are home and comfey!
Romney Boys are home and comfey!
Clinton Off Spring 27 and Hedge Fund Comfey!
Cheney Girls Home and Comfey!
Cheney Deferred and Comfey!
Shrubby Home and Comfey Ran Away in Alabama after Dadddy Made Him first in Line for Stateside Romping
The home and comfeys will keep it goin’ just like the Aristocracy watched the Roman Gladiators fight to the death.
Nothing Changes but the date and the time.
Welcome to Iraq Fo-Evah and Evah!
Go Shop!
Well, in the case of Okinawa, to rape teenage girls. With no accountability. We’re also still occupying a piece of Cuba, nasty business for us, for the Cubans and for the world.
Saved it and will read later. Thanks
I’ll bet anything that King didn’t follow up with, “Well, what do you mean by ’succeed’?”.
And would never say, “Well, whatever ’success’ means, don’t you think, in terms of blood and money, it was an overall enormous failure for the US?”
And with 99.99999% of all other interviewers — the same out-of-focus approach would no doubt apply.
This illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq is going to be like a giant anvil around McCain’s leathery neck as the November elections draw nearer…he’s going down, and he’ll drag a lot of the Congressmen and women with him…
The billions spent and the horror and degredation the deaths and maimings of hundred of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans will be shown for the terrible mistake it was and continues to be…
Not to mention he’ll be tied to Bush and the collapse of a once vibrant economy here in the US.
Keep it up McCain,,,you’re looking sorrier and more pathetic all the time!
You couldn’t find any more homogeneous societies than Germany, Japan, and Korea. Iraq is an example of one of the least homogeneous societies. For some odd reason I think that might be a factor.
We have lots of protected Rapists. Blackwater, State Department–Rape Rape Rape.
And the DOJ–the proud DOJ–they be investigatin’ foevah!
That’s what you have when Feinstein and Laehy and Shumer fight to line up to kiss Mukasey’s ass.
DOJ is “investigatin’ those rapes fo-evah! But you go spit on the sidewalk and watch what happins–cause you bein’ wiretapped, bank account tapped, email tapped, airport laptop searched–give ‘em yo passwords ’cause they be investigatin’ Black Watuh and Rapes by the State Department fo-evah!
Welcome to Mukaseyland. Have fun ‘yall.
Bush may try to get his arab buddies to stages some attacks.
If any of you can get a lock-step Republican to define what the phrase means that “things are much better in Iraq” or “the surge has worked” or “we’re winning now” means–and not to walk away when you say what about the explosions lights and refugees muttering “War is Hell” get back to me.
Hell for who?
Thanks for the link, they don’t call it the forgotten war for nothing.
Just read Halberstam’s Coldest Winter, fine stuff. I have a friend that
was an RA in Korea ‘66-68… wild stories about DMZ incursions… that’s
how we lost the starlight scope technology, night DMZ raid on an OP just
for the optics.
“What’s missing here, of course, is St. McCain never says precisely what “success” means”
I disagree: I haven’t heard McCain say what ’success’ means at all. I believe Cheney/Bush have not defined ’success’ because for them, ’success’ is Iraq becoming a US military and oil colony, and the US public would not accept that goal.
Important question for McCain: what is success? What are we trying to do in Iraq?
I haven’t seen the surrounding Arab states take a scintilla of responsibility for Iraq. Their refusal to let the 4+ million refugees have “licenses” to work to feed themselves is one glaring example.
I can now see why McCaqin finished almost last in his class at Annapolis.
He never grasped the concept of “Pyrrhic Victory”.
OK, I read it. Where will the Iraq DMZ go and how will we defend it?
why does that picture make me think of Steve Martin?
Looks shouldn’t matter, but we all know they do.
Can you imagine the contrast between Obama & McBush in the coming debates? (I know HRC could still win but it’s unlikely)
After the (deserved) platitudes re: being a former POW, he’s got nothing.
Obama offering new ideas and hope, McBush offering 100 years in Iraq and waterboarding. Tough decision.
You’re right. It’s similar to their approach on Palestinian refugees.
the comedy ninja chins?
If we throw the bums out and take our country back, “We the People” win. That is the only victory, and the rest of the world will rejoice.
There is no “winning the war”.
There is no war.
McCain is a L.o.s.e.r.
BTW Texas may be a loss for Hillary even if she wins.
Delegate Counting In Texas Is Complex
Turns out that because the delegates were apportioned based on Democratic turnouts in prior elections, certain strongholds outside the Hispanic heavy Rio Grande Valley are actually going to have more delegates. Houston, Austic, Dallas-Ft. Worth and Beaumont-Port Arthur will carry far more weight than the total population would suggest.
In addition the districts require a pretty sizeable majority (62.5%) to do more than end up with more than a split vote.
Obama really benefits from this system far more than Clinton and may actually have a chance at winning the delegate count even if Hispanics turn-out in large numbers for her. In fact Obama has a chance to win even more delegates if his grass-roots crew gets out his supporters in the cities above.
Great book, the parts about Kennedy and Vietnam are pretty good too. I was in a 105 outfit just south of Munsani, 67-68. We swept the mountains during the Blue House Raid and one of our line batteries caught three “infiltrators” (we called em Joe Chink but it’s soooo un PC). They opened up and all three were killed, a couple of guys ran down to them and PVT Contrerez flipped one over and he had a frag with the pin pulled. Contrerez had an eye blown out and another guy was badly wounded. There was a trooper who had already been to the Nam and he was much more cautious. They gave him a bronze star and I remember sitting with him in the hooch before the ceremony all wide eyed “what’s the Nam like”??? He looked at me like I was nuts and said, “It’s just like this but a lot warmer”!
“(And by the way, why the hell do we still have troops in Japan and Germany?)“
What a helluva question! That would probably lop 50 billion off the defense budget right there.
(With Gen. Dynamics, Raytheon, Haliburton & GE’s permission of course)
My one and only point is that folks keep talking about Korea like it is occupation duty like Japan and Germany. Mc Cain’s argument is bullshit.
I read it. I never knew.
ah therein lies a rub
I’m not sure about Korea in the sense that the two countries are so radically different and have been for, oh, 50 years.
I wouldn’t even call a pyrrhic victory even a remote possibility. That’s because it couldn’t ever be a “victory” in any rational sense. You can’t force a “victory” out of an occupation in the middle of a multi-ethnic, anarchic clusterfuck, whose roots stretch back to Mohammed.
Not many people do, why would they. It got really hot and heavy as Nam went nuts with Tet and it was small stuff. The Pueblo got some attention but that was it. They tried for years to get a Korean Defense Medal and Rummy turned it down when it finally was passed as a “sense of the Senate”. It finally passed a few years back. Whoopie!
Don’t know about Steve Martin, but I have noticed that McCain doesn’t look at all like himself in his pictures lately. It’s really weird. Jane must be right on the botox.
‘Things’ appear to be getting somewhat untoward in my party’s (Dems) two campaigns, and rather nasty. My preferred nominee (Obama) needs to realize that now is the time to come clean on specifics. A convincing and hard agenda is now required if we are going to win. And as for the Clinton campaign? They might want to consider besting Senator Obama on the issues. The ‘experience’ thingie is not working. If we Democrats are not careful, we just might give Rove another victory next autumn. I don’t want any more PR crap. Do you hear me… Mr. Obama?
Lunch is over. Back to work for me.
Sorry to be OT but the President of GM, Bob Lutz, recently said that global warming is a total crock of “shit”. Enlightened Republican Detroit automotive execs, and they wonder why they continue to lose market share. Time to replace the elephant symbol of the Republican Party with that of as ostrich.
McCain has finally been absorbed by Darksyde…
He is almost unrecognizable day by day.
Scaaaaary.
I think he looks absurd doing the thumbs-up thing. Don’t know why. It looks as if he is trying to be really “hip” and it just doesn’t fit. Nor does anything else for that matter.
been smoking something today bt?
you know you’l be repeating that paragraph at least a hundred more times, possibly into the thousands
Yeah, but the underlying history and culture are the same. If the people of North Korea were given an honest decision they would run like hell to the South’s way of life. The same cannot be said of Iraq. 1,000 years of differences is more of an indication than 50 years of differences.
I did. I’m old enough to remember the Pueblo, but did not know/remember anything about the rest. Wow.
McCain and the rest of the neo-cons want us there forever precisely because our obvious massive failure is by that means easier to mask — at least from the ignorant.
McCain? Just watch “no we can’t” video if you haven’t seen it yet. And more important, send it to everyone you know. Help him bring the rethugs down.
what a moron
alternative energy plants and hybrid, electric technology will not only save the industry, it will rebuild our economy
it might even make gm the staple of our economics if these morons would get off their asses and start marketing these vehicles
Roger
He’s already talking about rethinking NAFTA while McCain is saying “those jobs aren’t coming back”. Which do you think the blue collar workers of the fly-over states want to hear.
The 100 to 1,000 years Iraq stuff is bad…
The “More wars” and “bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” is really, really bad.
I presume that, based on his philosophy, we will then occupy Iran and Syria for 100 to 1,000 years too.
Oh, and refusing to vote against waterboarding….yeah.
He’s certifiable.
Truly the words of a madman. Ahab-esque.
McCain’s got the Big Mow: Soddy Ahab-ia
and the real horror is that he didn’t sell HIS soul to the devil, he sold the souls of those of the future.
Think of how we felt, I volunteered for Nam but I was 17 and you had to be 18. So they sent me to Korea. My old man was all happy because he thought it was “pacified”. He was REALLY happy when, after 6 months back in the world I volunteered again and that time it took! What a dumb ass I was.
Because it looks like the St. is dancing like an Egyptian.
Maybe it’s about “The Jerk.”
With comments like that, is there any wonder why Toyota is cleaning their clock?
You can’t buy a Prius without a 1 or 2 month wait, and they can’t give their gas guzzlers away without rebates and discounting.
And his fellow tortured and killed soldiers of the past.
It is despicable.
Excellent points BT. I am still miffed at you for dissing Iowa in your earlier post. Let’s keep hoping he keeps pandering to the detached from reality base up to the General.
I agree. Koreans share the same history and traditions not to mention DNA. Their ideology is different and that changes frequently. The ties that bind these people is a powerful force.
What unit?
MSNBC: McCain taking a commanding lead…now with Bush41’s endorsement.
A good friend went to Korea. Never was the same again.
McCain dishonored his own service by embracing Bush. Since then, he’s been working hard to secure his own spot in the Bush Wing of Hell.
the real answer is our military HAS success!
they have accomplished every military goal, they’ve completed their mission an they can do no more
their mission, depose saddam, find out if there were wmds
done, finnished
our armed forces are NOT a private Iraqi police force, they are NOT painters of schools, they are NOT escorts for teh Iraqi government
THEY ARE NOT THE BODY GUARDS OF WAR PROFITEERS LIKE HALIBURTON
they’ve completed their mission, they need to be brought home and rewarded for their service, they need to be put back where they came, providing for their family
john mccain needs to get a program becuase he’s lost his, this is NO LONGER a military mission, this is a diplomatic problem and our children in the armed forces
ARE NOT DIPLOMATS
Meanwhile, that pesky, unacknowledged, rarely reported collateral damage keeps piling up. Read this piece from Editor and Publisher
Actually, understand your opponent.
Two things probably drive McCain.
One, like it or not, Korea worked. That war probably was worth while. I speak as a lover of South Korea and its people.
Two, the place where it didn’t work, and US troops aren’t, is Vietnam. That probably still hurts him like hell, given his life story.
The parallels are probably stronger between Iraq and Nam than Iraq and Korea, in terms of perceived occupation, but many people don’t get that.
Again I say, don’t agree, just understand. That should make his position easier to argue against, and to persuade waverers.
You cannot imagine how much it worries me that your election, in which I obviously don’t have a vote, is so important to the UK. Lots of folks here keep complaining we have too much coverage, but that’s cos they just don’t understand the world.I really really want the Dems, actually almost any Dems, to win and you guys can help..
So long as Condi remains in charge, it’s doubtful that there will be a desireable diplomatic outcome.
My oft used favorite snippet:
Did you ever hear about the curse of the Klopmann diamond? Mr. Klopmann comes with it.
I read it. I was a teenager at the time and recalled the Pueblo incident and had a very hazy recollection of artillery exchanges in Korea. Thanks for filling in the blanks and letting us know the extent of the conflict there.
HHQ, 1 Bn 79th Arty,7th ID (we were deep in 2nd ID’s AO) South of Munsani at the base of Charlie Block. Our gun batteries were on the other side of the mountain. What genius figured that out I’ll never know. It wasn’t that far as the crow flies but you had to drive up the msr, through Munsani and got toward the Turkey Farm to get there. You could go south and go through Mickey Mouse Corners but it was longer.
Absolutely–but the mindset has always been for Republicans that it’s like the Georgia-Florida game where the uniforms are different and everything is clearly defined.
It’s the least justifiable and most chaotic fiasco in American history.
I was a teenager at the time too:)
Go Dawgs!
Bush and McCain are further marginalizing the evangelical conservatives by treating them like they aren’t even there.
Another stupid move.
Also, now Bush and McBush are consumating the hug and that isn’t going to help him, no matter what Karl Rove thinks.
-G
The language is already solidifying to prejudice the voter. Other than what each of us is hearing is there anyone keeping a record of the McCain descriptions, Hillary descriptions and Obama descriptions? If not, perhaps we can start a descriptive log. Can anyone suggest how we can collect this data?
Example:
McCain media word associations:
Commanding
Strong
I’m a little suspicious of people like 41, 43, and Romney supporting him. They want to “control” the nomination. You never know what can happen between now and November….Remember, Cheney’s daughter was working for Romney…and Blackwater’s Cofer Black worked for Romney, but Romney couldn’t get voter traction.
well, they don’t want any success, they want a continued occupation, the longer we are there, the longer they can steal, and that’s what this is about, stealing the assets of Iraq, the middle east and the middle class of america
they do NOT want success in Iraq
but never the less, our military mission is done and that’s the way the democrats have to embarrass mccain, we have to challenge his brand, he claims to be a military man but he is repeating nonsense
we can take a page from the republicans, attack the brand mccain thinks is his strenght, it happens to be his weakness
just wow.
.
from that article
Kyonggi-do-Munsan? Just inland from Inchon? What unit in VietNam?
Romney probably promised to pick Jeb as his running mate.
war hero
Speaking of perceived political ‘assets’ how much TALLER than Kucinich is the McCain?
The Cheney/BuchCo has plans for McCain. Me thinks me smells a sinister plot about.
No matter our feelings on the Iraq War, forcing the Democratic nominee to state a position of immediate withdrawal will get us a Republican president. The average American does not want to appear to lose this thing.
Most Americans and virtually all of the world except those who have a dog in the fight have come to the conclusion that there is nothing for the USA to win in Iraq except OIL.
If he runs on MORE WAR he will not win, Not to worry.
Americans are worrying more about the economy.
It’s the economy stupid!
What would happen if McCain got the nomination, but was out of the candidacy before the election? How would that be handled?
More likely, they will make him pick Romney as VP and then make him leave office shortly after being “appointed” by SCOTUS….then Romney picks Jeb as VP, and there we have it.
Those statistics will only become important if a Democrat wins and begins to pull out. Then every single Iraqi homicide or accidental death will be treated as a humanitarian catastrophe.
Just like the Bush/McCain Republicans who deem photos depticting dead US troops arriving home unacceptable, but couldn’t get enough of the Black Hawk Down gruesomeness on the news.
-G
Yup, because they hate him. They are using him to put who they really want in….someone who cannot get “elected”.
Raven, I don’t think we were taking KIAs in Korea in ‘58 at the rate of 40 a month.
Korea was no success.
What is a success is when the people of Korea can have a democratically elected government.
We are doing nothing to promote that. But rather providing a warm spot for the justification of militarization.
McCain looks like his spine is shrinking. Kucinich is just slight in form.
minor alteration ;-)
Republics make only political moves designed to benefit themselves regardless of the effect on the nation.
I love your devious mind.
I suspect if they want to grab the country they just do another 911 attack and declare marshal law.
The we get to see if the military is with em or with the people.
Not a diss. More of a nanny-nanny-boo-boo.
I didn’t realize we were talking about statistics. I’m not looking for a hassle here but I just think we need to be accurate. The implication is that there was nothing going on and that is simply not the case.
Your standards of democracy are rather high.
I was there when Kim Young Sam was elected. Not perfect but it still seemed awfully like democracy to me. Compared quite well with USA 2003 come to think of it. Pots and kettles.
The correct term is martial law – as in military control.
Isn’t South Korea a success?
LOL. You must have missed my earlier post where I pointed out that it was in fact Iowa who sparked this competitive race and demonstrated that HRC was vulnerable. Otherwise you know the MSM had already coronated HRC. :-)
ah, but then romney will not have a safe tenure
I would want my own private security if I were the president to a bush as vice president
That photo of McCain is bizarre. It looks like he’s doing Martin Short or Mike Myers doing him. But wouldn’t that be too meta for McCain?
True. Change of faces at the top keeps the illusion going that nothing has been couped though…. *g*
A convenient attack could enable them to attack Iran…
But, they might not bother to do that, because it would spoil Jenna’s wedding.
No, I saw that. Never having lived in Iowa, I was always envious of the fact that the presidentials revolved around you.
Now we get some of that, finally.
Oops. My last at 101 was supposed to respond to SanderO at 94
Munsani is only 32 miles north of Seoul and Inchon. Nam, shipped with the 972nd Signal Bn, 1st Sig Bde and spent half the tour with the 107th Sig Co RI National Guard if you can believe that shit. I’m RA and end up in the guard in Nam!
“There is something rotten in Denmark”
Would living under martial law make us long for the days of living under Cheney law?
I’m from Illinois!
Got a point there, but Jeb is young enough and he would gain “experience” for the following 8 years….
100 years of Bushco….
Oy Vey.
Nah. America has had it. America won’t buy a McCain win or a Romney win or any other Puke win. In reality, I have hope.
SanderO – Disappearing is so much cheaper and less messy. Ever notice how clean the magicians stage is?
October surprise, boogie boogie boogie, the jihadi’s are coming to get you.
I was thinking he looked like steve martin
The McCain “phenomenon” is smoke and mirrors of some kind. Just doesn’t add up.
they have no patience to wait, this is a crime family
Yup…or…the Neocons are coming to get you!!! Ahhhhhhhhh…
They can bugga bugga their butts to the Hague, if you ask me.
they don’t care if America buys it or not, if you have noticed, with every failure they become more brazen
they will steal the elction if they can
It should be noted that for four decdades after WW II Germany faced the prospect of a Soviet invasion that they were unprepared to defend against and which we were protecting them from. Japan still faces that prospect from China, and South Korea still faces that prospect from China and/or North Korea. That’s a lot of leverage.
After reading EW’s post about Bandar Bush basically threatening Blair with terrorism…ummm…their
littlebig lie, may be unraveling….Pull that thread….expose them!!!!
To the Hague!!!
ooops sorry my bad
Without a doubt.
Let’s catch them first!!
Lumping Korea in with Germany and Japan is indeed inaccurate, for all the reasons Raven has already stated. The War NEVER ended in Korea, unlike the others. I believe there is N. Korean artillery in range of Seoul as this is written…neither does Korea compare to Iraq. In Korea, again as Raven has pointed out, most of the action was on the DMZ or against N. Korean infiltrators. To compare, there would have had to be gueriila actions all over S. Korea-as there are guerilla actions against the occupation forces all over Iraq.
South Korea is fine.
KOREA is not. Lots of people are disenfranchised last I looked.
Most likely, yes.
I love the quote attributed to Lantos:
Tyrants and Oppressors end up in the dustbin of history.
I don’t think they need to attack Iran, But shutting down democracy HERE sure makes that and more a lot easier.
The Texas GOP is loading-up a new swiftboat fleet and preparing to launch them at Rick Noriega.
-G
I think it was a reply to mine at 104.
McCain and W are practically living in marital law.
Maybe a couple of years ago, but their timing is bad. The country is catching on to them. Their M.O. is to create shock and awe and chaos in order to take more power. They are perfectly capable of that.
I was thinking he looked like steve martin
you call ‘em like I see ‘em (comment #27)
Perris,
How do you think they would steal this one if all the polls show a huge dem turnout?
Do you think they will say that this was all repuke voters coming out to cheer on More War?
Stealing a close election is “easy” as we have seen.
I can only see them CANCELLING the election… then it goes to the supremes who tell the country to chill until the war is won.
Is the House in debate over FISA this morning? Or are they on holiday? Sorry for the off topic, but I don’t want the R’s to pull any fast ones on us.
Something changed about the time the nukes went missing. People began wondering what was going on…I don’t think anyone in their right mind trusts them…just a few stragglers..no matter what the Puke voter polls say.
Iraq is a leftover construct, an entity created from the remnants of
the Ottoman empire to facilitate British oil discoveries. There is no
Iraq, never has been and never will be… ignorance, arrogance and
vanity of the nouveau riche cannot mold those tribal areas into a nation
no matter who tries it… never happen.
I completely agree. And this may prove that they LIHOP of MIHOP 911. I don’t subscribe that they were just lucky that we got a new war on terra to enable all the BS.
You are exactly correct; witness 2000 & 2004. But my healthy skepticism aside, this feels different.
Of course, neither campaign has the luxury of saying or thinking that, but the enthusiasm on our side should make this election too hard to steal.
Obama should crush McCain.
How right you are, Wigwam. WE invaded then instead.
Do you think some or any of those lucky nations are still sufficiently appreciative to help save OUR bacon now?
oh ick pancake head, ken doll and the gang are pontificating on t.v. again about how terra terra terra is on the move and it’s the dems fault. How much hair spray does Boehner use anyway?
OT..With friends like these:
(snip)
(snip)
link
by all accounts
Tell them he will let them look as his records as soon as they let the public see George W Bush’s AWOL National Guard records. The GOP is so sleazy. How could anyone take any pride in belonging to such a sleazy organization?
McConnell is on CSPAN now.
I know but you know how that Illini-Hawkeye thing is ever since Bruce Pearl.
The Iran oil bourse traded in Euros is set to open on the 19th.
Also, if you want to see what the media isn’t reporting check out this blog on California real estate…..This country is in for some serious shit.
Here in NH and ME my brother and brother in law, finish carpenters with 40-plus years of experience are sitting idle.
-G
Hey – Speaking of Hypocritcal AZ Republicans, Howie has a great story up at DWT that could use some DIGG love…
RUMORS SWIRL
Please read and the DIGG it. Thanks in advance.
looks like I owe you a coke
I think it could lead to the smoking gun.
Pull this thread and unravel it all….
The infiltrators, as you know, came mainly by water or through those big ass tunnels.
It’s the pride that comes from having an ever growing personal wealth.
Late to the thread and maybe it’s been said: we were soldiers once – and young.”
SanderO @127
Ah now I see! But remember that the UN Forces prserved their bit of Korea from the advance of the North and it did become democratic in due course, tho it took a while and it is arguable how much the USA assisted (or indeed interfered with) the final steps. Of course I agree about the North
Bush and McCain are authoritarian, police-state imperialists.
done
I fear we live in a bubble though
I was telling a story the other day, a weird conversation I had in the gym
to “supposed” democrats actually saying;
“mccain is the best candidate with the most experience but I think his imprisonment has made him week in the knees’
they actually want us to torture and they would never vote for obama…this was their method for hiding their rascism
we live in a bubble and I hope the call for a democrat is as strong as we believe
but we live in a bubble
They are trying. The plan is to get the Blue Dogs to apply pressure on other Dems to join them. Personaly, I don’t see it working. Between shrub waving the fear flag – The terrorist are coming. The terrorist are coming!
And, the grandstanders screaming into the cameras about the country’s impending danger, I don’t think it is having much effect. You see they are all out listening to the preez – they went shopping.
Yep, I remember that. Got kinda messy. He was an assistant under Dr. Tom Davis. Head Coach at Tennesee I believe. Dr. TOm’s son Keno is coaching my Alma Mater, Drake and having a spectatular year. First time in three decades us Bulldogs have some national exposure.
Hmmmmmmmm:
“First off are the rampant rumors that McCain is way too old and feeble to handle both a full time campaign and even a part time job in the Senate. He’s missed more votes than any senator in recent memory other than Tom Johnson when he was in a coma. There’s been widespread speculation that McCain would step down to try to make something of his doomed presidential run…”
They will let him get to the convention and the leader, and then they will make him back down, and they’ll put someone else in…that is what I was talking about…
When General Moore signed my copy at the 15th Anniversary of the Wall he saw my 7th ID patch and signed it “To a Fellow Bayonet Trooper”!
Holly canoli!
The saudis are really nasty bastards. They are squeezing the west’s by the balls in any way they can.
And we are sending them all sorts of weapons. Completely insane. But we have nothing to sell them to help with the trade balance. We only do weapons.
Even the almighty dollar cannot survive Bush and the GOP.
*swoon* I love Conyers!!
Steny is smacking the r’s around on C-SPAN right now. I love it!
Urgh! *g*
Yup, that be him.
Yes. They also kidnapped Japanese civilians off the beaches in Japan and took them back to North Korea, to train other North Korean agents in how to blend in, how to appear Westernized. The fate of these Japanese is part of an ongoing dispute between Japan and NoKo presently.
Cornyn’s numbers have not looked good for months… this latest trick
must mean his internal polling looks bad, he cannot run on his record
because he has none other than as a Bushco shill made up like a Senator.
He has high negatives, so Noriega better go at him and raise them some
more.
dems are coming out like roaches with the light on to the primaries. Everyone is noticing it. People and dems are pissed. And they will vote their piss.
EPU land,
I just perused the Seton Hall Documents. Three thoughts:
1.It reminded me of the Mengele experiments in Fascist Germany, so clinical…remember Scalia the other day?
2. Apocalypse Now.. “The Horror…The Horror”
3. This is systematic violence that violates the human dignity.What have we wrought?
Read the Deon Thomas section if you have a mind to. Snake indeed.
Perris, indeed, but look at the raw numbers for the elections. The smoke and mirrors of the Bush/McCain years are being shattered.
-G
Just chew on that story for awhile…
There’s more there than meets the eye methinks. Why was he recalled to Saudi Arabia…what did he say to Bush…how did he help Bushco?
Bang! See the smoke?
People and dems? Hmmmmm . . . .
I have NO sympathy for that little shit but I do feel for the NK people.
lol!
Not to mention the infamous ‘Apple Saturday’ incident.
We need an open society. I am so sick and tired of being feed bits and all this state secret and national security nonsense.
HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I’m going to be EPU’d I’m sure, but…
The whole goal has ALWAYS been the bases and the 100 year presence to insure the Oil. (And the safe arbitrage of that oil by Big Oil) We want to have a greater regional footprint and be able to tell our “friends” there to fuck off if we want to.
C’mon, we all know this. Everything else is and always has been a charade. This is about colonialism, always has been. To think otherwise is simply political re-packaging or willful ignorance. Hell, even Mr. Greenspan said “of course its about oil” – until he stepped it back to keep the natives from revolting. Why else spend a trillion dollars in the desert?
BTW, HRC and BO know this too, and are never going to abandon those bases either, I’m ashamed to say.
them and cats and dogs and independents.
Look at the turnout at the polls, caucuses, speeches and so on. When you give them a opportunity to be counted in “traditional” ways… they are coming on strong. I am heartened and the bobbleheads are skeered confused and don’t get it and all their polls have been wrong!
raven, that post gave me some shivers of respect
thanx for sharing
I agree with you.
Indeed. How radical was Obama’s suggestion to have the discussions on health care policy on CSPAN no less?
I would tend to agree with Deon, Pearl seems like a snake. Iowa’s new coach, Lickliter seems to be a pretty stand up guy.
Absol doggon lutely
That’s not quite right, BT. If you look at the article, he says it’s “as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed.”
And we get a pony.
Didn’t know that. But it fits. Kidnapping, to get what you want, is an old tradition in Asia. Japan did the same thing to China centuries ago to steal their silk industry. It worked. Until that time they didn’t produce silk. It made Japan rich. And, yes, Japan also did that to Korea.
Again, the GOP, if they choose this tactic are pushing themselves further into a radical corner.
The GOP Cleland and Kerry smears were sopped up by folks with scales still on their eyes.
Now they are going to try this tactic after what they have put the US military through?
The GOP is pushing and pushing and pushing and they still haven’t grasped, as 2006 should have told them to….back off. But they only know how to win by pushing further.
Bush and his family and followers may end up becoming the American version of the Nicaraguan Somoza’s.
-G
And last time I checked, we weren’t dumping the equivalent of a Guernica’s worth of bombs in the space of ten days on them.
Because of the Evil Soviet Threat — which ironically enough had withered to nothing under Clinton and is now, thanks to Bush and the other neocons’ scaring various countries like Russia into rallying behind their hardliners, a threat once again.
Halberstam had some good conversations with Moore… Moore is old
school soldier in the very best sense of the word… fine moment
you had!
Very interesting; I did not know that. (My wife’s a Marine brat; she probably did.)
I would say the general point about the flaws in McCain’s comparison still holds, but we should be a little more careful about how we describe them.
I agree to a point.
We are now down to 3 choices. Of these 3 there is no question Sen. Obama gives us the best chance to get out of Iraq.
That’s not debatable.
Yes, I think the cumulative effect of these years of defamation, fear
mongering and lying have knocked some scales off and retribution may
be coming at the polls, even here in Texas.
Ten years later we were in the airport in DC coming back and the General and his wife were waiting for their plane. We started talking, they lived in Auburn and we are all Bulldogs and the Georgia-Auburn game was that weekend. Mrs Moore said, “I love you boys but I’m still for Auburn. . .War Eagle”. She passed away a couple of years ago but I’ll never forget how sweet she was to us grungy enlisted men!
Absolutely.
yup,whe are always scraping the bottom of the barrel,when it comes to repuke canidates/prezledents
I know, I felt a little funny since I was such a raggedy ass trooper and and anti-war one at that! I skipped that part with them. . .nothing to gain.
thanx for the stories raven, they are heart warming.
Exactly, I think Dems need to ask the question about why the U.S. has troops in so many countries and what earthly reason there is for us to occupy Iraq for the indefinite future, especially when it is obvious we are unwelcome to most Iraqis and most people in the region. Global military hegemony is unbelievably expensive and totally unnecessary — in the end much of it it contributes little to the actual defense of the United States. There really is a need to rethink this whole question before PNAC premises bankrupt the nation and continuously and forever prevent all manner of good things from being affordable — through excessive debt, high taxes and no money for urgently needed domestic programs.
Thats the argument we should have been having all along. How can we be for or against “the war”, when the real cost/benefit analysis has never been presented.
Instead, everyone apparently finds it easier to wrap us in the flag, terrorize us, and feed platitudes. I guess in reality it’s the only way they ever could have gotten something like this off the ground.
The really think we’re idiots to accept any other premise though, and I guess for the most part we are. Of course, they’re bigger idiots for thinking we’d be greeted with “flowers and candy” – they really did think this would be a cake-walk.
I think the average Iraqi would like for us to fix their electricity, sewers, and water systems and maybe repair the buildings we damaged or destroyed and then get the hell out of Iraq. McCain’s view that we can occupy an Islamic country indefinitely without repercussion proves he has no knowledge or understanding of that culture. The idea that it is ok as long as American soldiers are’nt being killed shows he has no hope for any diplomatic solution or that Iraq can eventually become an independant country.
I can’t read through the notes; the very concept is all too scary. We are killers, can he not see that? We have torn a country apart and we went in on a lie. Those who even thought the war may have been a good idea at the start say it has been a disaster in execution. How much more? How long, O God? That he does not even entertain an withdrawal plan..not saying a timetable..is beyond the rational or reality. Help. Maybe it is time to take to the streets.