Happy Anniversary, Eli

I hope this is Shock and Awe back at them….

Thanks, Prairie! Not quite there yet - 12 more days.

On that note, congratulations again to Donna Edwards !

Bush will veto the anti-torture bill, and there aren’t enough votes to override.

Then why is such a bill being introduced? Why not stick with settled law?

Yeah, I think she’ll be paying direct and indirect dividends for quite some time. And she rocks.

I am pleased with Donna Edwards.

Goodnight.

I’m in favor of any votes that expose Dubya and the Republicans for the brutal sociopaths they are. 30 years from now, when the wingnuts start trying to name airports after Dubya and put him on currency, we can remind everyone about that time when he vetoed the bill banning torture, or the one giving middle-class kids healthcare.

“Surrogates” “Surrogates” “Surrogates”….

How about the real thing.

Our founding fathers set up the Senate to be the more “conservative” (slower to respond) of the legislative bodies. Boy were they were prescient!

Good post, Eli!

The weird thing is that they expected the Senate to be the one with better judgment, reining in the House’s poorly-thought-out mistakes…

Thanks!

Establishment, Establishment, Establishment: Talking points.

Personally…antiestablishmentarianism sounds good to me.

Eli - I don’t know about you, but the Senate and House Dems have been driving me crazy, especially of late. It’s like they take turns, first caving in and then standing on principle. It’s enough to turn us all into manic-depressives. Do you think that’s their plan - for us to to become manic-depressive and then have us become addicted to prescription drugs?

Cheers Eli! Let’s start the party early to celebrate. You deserve it.

exactly. This is strong campaign fodder. Torture transcends party. I know multiple people who vote R that are disgusted by Bush’s use of waterboarding. Now we have McCain kissing his ring in this sordid affair. That is going to leave a mark next fall.

It’s also a loud and clear message to Americans in general about the things that can and will be reversed with Democrats leading both Congress and the Executive branch less than a year from now.

Hi Eli…

I think they’re hoping that we have some kind of selective strobe-light memory, so that when election day comes, they can say, “Hey, remember all those times we stood up to the Republicans?” and no-one will remember that they caved two weeks later.

Good news is good news. Let’s celebrate that.

The fight is not over by a longshot.

“Remember, they are riding Shetland Ponies”……

The question is whether the Democratic nominee will make an issue of it. You know if any of us were running their campaign they sure as hell would.

Thanks, MM! Hi, Biodun!

*waves*

Happy Anniversary, Eli. What is today, the Ides of February?

Forgive my ignorance…does Donna not have a Repub opponent in the general?

Thanks! Funny, I was thinking that exact same thing this afternoon.

Scott Horton speculates that “Contempt” might be laying a trap leading to impeachment.
http://www.harpers.org/archive.....c-90002409

I’m not sure. It’s a really solidly Democratic district, so the primary basically *is* the election.

Apparently there was a late mailing of Donna Edwards’ fund raising letter, because I just got one on Monday that was dated Jan 30th. Even though it’s too late for the primary, I’m going to send her a little money, the campaign may have debts, or she can use it in the general election.

Do not tease me, please.

Donna is in a safe Dem district - the R opposition is essentially token.

But is there enough time? And doesn’t the “chess players are thinking several steps ahead of the game” seem a little… out of character? Did Pelosi say that impeachment was off the table to lull the administration into a false sense of security?

Democracy works when opposing parties can check each others moves. This forces cooperation and consent.
While Nancy might call what see has been doing until now consensus the GOP’s own Grover Norquist calls Date Rape. I call it surrender.
But now the Dems are acting like they have stones. Though I suspect that they looked at secret Dem polling and saw that incumbent Dems risk being thrown out along with the GOP if the price of gas goes higher ($3.19 in Seattle as of today), the economy gets worse, home prices go lower, the war in Iraq takes a bad turn etc.
All of these problems arose out of Dem surrender to the GOP on these issues and then when the GOP got their way things went WRONG, HORRIBLY WRONG.
Now I wonder just how scared the Dems are of us?
If they start talking about a healthcare plan that Michael Moore would be proud of that would be a 10. Today is maybe a 3 but its a start.

Grover G. Norquist
Jun 3, 2005 … [Norquist has enabled] a political influence operation to advance the causes of radical … “Bipartisanship is another name for date rape.” …
www.mediatransparency.org/pers.....ersonID=52 - 50k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this

Well, read the article. I respect Scott Horton, so I take what he sez seriously. And I think using the word “speculates” accurately characterizes what he is doing. But he’s not right about everything. He seriously misjudged Mukasey, whom he knows fairly well.

I’m just passing along the link. I have no separate opinions about what is actually going on.

Or is it possible that they finally just got fed up with all the overt law-breaking?

I can buy that as an explanation for the contempt resolution, but I just don’t see them ever moving on impeachment.

Snap!

I posted earlier, but again: Hoyers was really good on The Newshour. Up against Hofstra, and Hoyers made all his points and had the last word.

Have the Dems reached out with an agenda of further Lefty ideas in preparation for the runup to the election? Are they going to do more or is this it?

Hoyers was also good on the House floor this morning.

Maybe they did think several chess moves ahead and this is just the beginning of their election year full court press. A girl can hope.

You can take my mixed metaphor (chess & basketball) out & shoot it if you’d like.

So can a Guy:)

Agreed. I saw him and was pleasantly surprised.

OT Does anyone know what if any blogs KO or his research staff reads? Sometimes I think somebody on his show reads our stuff.

Almost all of them can do it when the mood strikes them. I’ve seen Reid, Schumer and Rahm all nail it on occasion.

Having worked once briefly in the Senate, I bought into that division too: the Senate was for senior statesmen (the deciders of merit); the House was for the rabble rousers. Hmmm…..(Go rabble rousers!).

Wonderful discussion right now on Moyers about the ignorance in the populace and debate; therefore, not knowing about the issues, Constitution, geography, history. FDR as example of the educator who could engage and bring people along. I started writing this because I do think Obama has the best qualities to teach/inform the people on the issues.

I’ve been disappointed too many times.

I just read an NYT book review on that subject. The Pearl Harbor anecdote is particularly horrifying.

Since childhood (or at least teenagerhood), I have held to the principle that a pessimist can only be pleasantly surprised.

…or who will be in the committee…

From what I’ve gathered, the House side is composed of Sylvestre Reyes and Hoekstra of the HSIC, Conyers and Davis of the HJC, on the Senate side is Jello Jay and the ranking member of the SSIC, and, supposedly Leahy and his Ranking member of the SJC… However, Leahy is reportedly in Vermont not DC…

Don’t know for a fact but it has been reported by others that KO and/or staff do read FDL and KO writes at Kos.

Moyers’ guest may have been the author..Susan Jacobey, I believe. Very interesting.

You have a point. Still, it’s good to see, as long as it lasts!

BTW, congratulations on your anniversary! Many happy returns!

Bobo’s advice for Hilary on the Newshour point out that Obama is more Liberal?
The country is to the Left of Obama and Hilary on the war, healthcare etc.
Mark Shields says that she has been to heavy on specifics?
I like specifics what else is she suppose to talk about?
And Media people wonder why the blogs are so popular

I think that he does have the oratory skills and the street savy to speak to the people and “educate” them. But I hope he listens to us as well. Obi is fairly a blank page and yet to be written on.

That is the slowest, most banal political talk show on the airwaves. They belabor the obvious, like their viewers are retarded.

That’s very bad, then. Even if Leahy is there, it’s still 5-3 in favor of immunity. Didn’t the Republicans used to shut Democrats out of these committees entirely? Why should it be split equally when the Democrats are the majority party?

RevBev: Yep, that’s her!

MayDaze: Thanks!

Ask Reid and Pelosi why… Kit Bond is Jello Jay’s bud…

“Since childhood (or at least teenagerhood), I have held to the principle that a pessimist can only be pleasantly surprised.”

I played that gig for the first 15 years of my adult life, and at the end of the 15 years, I was lonely and depressed– even if I was right most of the time. I decided that there are times when being right is overrated. For the next 20 years, I was often scolded for being such a “polyanna”– but I got married, and was happier (most of the time.)

But then, along came Cheney and Boosh, and look at me now! On FDL, I have a tendency to be cynical and pessimistic. Maybe Obama can cure me!

Bob in HI

Call me retarded: I really do usually like alot of what they do/report. I think they cover a pretty good range with various view points.

Bobo just said something interesting where’s Marion in Savannah? She will be so sorry she missed it. Bobo mentioned that cash is passing hands between the super delegates and the presidential campaigns.
This could be bad. I know it happens but if deals are made during a year when voter interest is high…well this year matters just look at the voter turnout.

Ooh now I remember, Scottish Haggis is Leahy’s ranking member…

Useless. Completely useless.

I thought she was very impressive and interesting speaker, alot to say.

Great. Look for him to make an eloquent case for why telecom immunity is completely unacceptable and unconstitutional and undermines the bedrock principles of our democracy… and then vote in favor of it.

I won’t argue with ya there…! Hopefully, Conyers and Reyes will stand firm…

I’m sorry I missed it, the book sounded intriguing. And depressing, in an Idiocracy kind of way.

Reyes hasn’t exactly left himself a lot of room to back down.

He has reached the point where he is almost funny but I can’t figure out where his head (or his heart) is. Strange man.

I like Conyers’ demands to see the documents first…! ;-)

My take on Spector is that he wants to be viewed as a reasonable, independent moderate… but isn’t. So he says all the right things, and then quietly gives Dubya everything he wants and hopes no-one will notice.

well, I guess call me partisan. I’m not interested in what Bobo has to say. Life is too short.

eli, an uplifting post, it was an uplifting few days to be sure, after the devistating disapointment in the senate

my new favorite quote;

Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. The heated mind resents the chill touch and relentless scrutiny of logic.

William E. Gladstone

ohhh, I feel good tonight

To be honest, I have to wonder just *what* the documents could show that would change the calculation here. I’m assuming that they would either show that the telecoms acted in bad faith, in which case they don’t deserve immunity, or they acted in good faith, in which case they don’t *need* immunity.

Careful:) A slow pace is one thing. There is good news coverage and if you want to know what the current Bush party line is bobo is your man his talking points are strsight from Rove. Brooks is ok.

Thanks, perris! Tuesday in particular was a real rollercoaster day.

hey, this gladstone character is pretty cool;

Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear.
William E. Gladstone

That certainly describes what we are living now. I love good quotes. I sort of collect them. thanks

man, I am digging gladstone, another;

All the world over, I will back the masses against the classes.
William E. Gladstone

12 days to go? And no coffee break yet? Jeez, there outa be a union!

Lots of people don’t. I was having dinner with a democratic couple I really like, and the husband I were discussing the miserable state of the republican party. The wife said, yes, but that she really like Arlin Specter. I asked if she ever followed his voting record. She was SHOCKED to learn that he almost never voted the right way.

Right now it’s more like conservatism is about the unearned trust of the people, secured by fear.

Know yourself and your enemy and you will be undefeated in a thousand battles is what I believe Sun Tze said If you don’t know what your enemy is thinking you can’t predict his moves.
Bobo is always trying out testing GOP memes.

Yep, people pay more attention to what you say than what you do. The Republicans would be toast otherwise.

I wonder what republicans think about boner and the cheerleaders walking out of the House yesterday. Certainly even the most die-hard can’t be anything but embarrassed.

I, for one, welcome our Firedog overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted frontpage personality I could be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground pumpkinloaf caves.

in the art of war, he had EXCELLANT and prescient few pages about a protracted war, if someone has that bit, please to post

Was it Conyers who said something to the effect of ‘win the elections next fall and everything will fall into place’. In that light re retroactive immunity, one possible path could be to string this thing out until then and then have the DoJ investigate what the telcos did. They could then offer the telcos immunity for cooperation in finding out what BushCo did.

As such, immunity would then be used to aid the investigators, not the perpetrators.

I hope that Donna Edwards and her eponymous Effect — the Donna Edwards Effect — will be around for a long, long time to stiffen the spines of our elected DeeCee democrats.

Whenever Steny and Nancy stray from doing the people’s business, we just need to whisper quietly in their ears: “Albert Wynn”

I used to have a friend who loved Reagan. Had a huge picture of him in her kitchen - made me gag. I tried many times to get her to explain why she was a Republican and she could not. She had no idea what either party stood for and it didn’t bother her at all.

Before you go that far, you might ask if the remember what Stage 2 actually is.

“It’s not a threat; it’s a promise.”

I know what Phase IV is…

Conservatism is the belief that society should be dominated by an aristocracy.

here we go;

In waging a war one must always attempt to score a swift victory. Protracted battles will frustrate the soldiers and diminish their morale. Besieging a fortified city will sap an army’s strength to exhaustion. Sending an army on a long expedition will bankrupt the country. Exhausted and demoralised troops coupled with depleted national resources presents an opportunity for neighbouring feudal warlords to attack you as you are now most vulnerable. Even if you have the most able commander, he will not be able to avert the disastrous consequences under such circumstances.

Thus, I have learnt that although an incompetent commander will try to score a quick victory, I am yet to witness a clever commander who deliberately prolongs a war. To engage in an interminable war and simultaneously bring benefit to the nation is not possible. Therefore, if one does not anticipate all the pitfalls of war, in particular the problems of protracted conflict, then one would not appreciate the benefits of military expediency and a swift victory.

The accomplished commander neither needs to repeat conscription nor requires continuous logistical support from home. He will bring with him all the necessary personnel and ordnance and obtain all provisions from his enemy’s territories. Consequently, he should continue to enjoy an abundance of food and supplies.

A nation becomes impoverished because of military expedition and the attendant cost of transportation of supplies to distant destinations.

Oops. Meant phase 2.

“Pumpkinloaf caves” - is that the FDL equivalent of “salt mines” ?

So why do the dems do what they do (and not do what they don’t do)? Why do the Senate dems cave and the House dems get some spine? Wish I knew. But maybe we’re better off just pushing on them to do what’s right–since there is clearly an opening–than trying to decipher their motives.

Just a thought.

Essentially yes. But they smell better.

Just off the top of my head, There has never been a country that has benefited from a protracted war? Sun Tzu? Is I believe the quote

Hello, GordonM! I was going to reply last night but my browser went kaflooey for a while. OK now tho. Hope you are well.

I think part of it is that a greater proportion of them are in safe seats, thanks to The Miracle Of Gerrymandering. Although, God knows, enough of the ones in safe seats are Bush Dog assholes too.

Oh, yes yes yes, please let it be so. And include that mealymouthed Mukasey in the charges.

Well, maybe not the countries *engaged* in it…

Sun Tzu?

yup, I posted some of the excerp up a few, it is incredibly prescient, have a read on 98

lol

I’m impressed scholar! We do seem to have quite the Sun Tzu appreciation society here at the Lake. I would like to see more posts comparing Sun Tzu and the mistakes Bush has made in Iraq.

House dems come up for reelection every two years so they know that if the people are pissed enough, they will be out of office. (They are pretty much running for re-election all the time). The Senate Dems only come up for election every 6 years, so they can pretty much do what they want to do until just before the election. So the House is much more likely to listen to people on the ground.

pelosi might have experienced the fear of god when we got donna elected

they must know now as a fact, if they don’t do the job they are elected, they will be elected no more

“o Senate passes a bill requiring all interrogators to abide by the Army Field Manual, which does not allow waterboarding or other forms of torture. (Anti-torture posturer McCain votes against, of course.) Accountability 2, Impunity 1.

o House finally votes on - and passes - a contempt resolution against Josh Bolten and Harriet Miers for stonewalling the US Attorney firings investigation. Accountability 3, Impunity 1.”

Anybody have roll calls for those votes?

(Hey, Bangor dude!)

I think that Dodd, Feingold and a few others may have convinced a few that they needed to step up. But mostly I think the arrogance probably pissed a lot of people off. Interupting Lantos’ memorial, “spontaneously” walking out to a waiting podium & mics…

It’s also true that the R’s know they’re toast (29 or more ‘retirements’). They’re doing as they are bid, but getting sloppy about it.

Yeah, that works too. “Safe district” can also mean “very progressive district”.

Yes, I think that Donna’s victory was a wakeup call, especially the large margin.

let me say something here;

I believe pelosi should be contacted and she should know as a fact we will support whoever runs against her if she does not begin the investigation that might bring the criminals against this country to the bar of justice

she must know we will do our best to have someone else represent us if she will not

Maybe a better way to put it–how can we best take advantage of the opening that this FISA situation gives to progressives? What actions would best advance our cause? Never mind if some dems are better than others, what should our strategy be?

ACLU thank you to House leaders. Keep Standing Up.