Login Here
Just a preview of what we're going to see over the next several months. (updated)
McCain: I can tell you there are dramatic differences in our views. He’s been endorsed by MoveOn.org, same organization that ran the Petraeus ad. It indicated where he is. He was wrong when he called for immediate withdrawal and timetable for Iraq. He was wrong when he said we could not win militarily.
Well, we knew as soon as MoveOn endorsed Obama, the wingnuts would cue the phony outrage chorus and sing "Betray Us, Bush/Hitler Ad!" over and over. But someone who kissed the ring of Jerry Falwell should probably be careful about playing that game. Should we ask St. McCain if he believes that 9/11 was caused by the gays?
As for Obama being wrong about not being able to win in Iraq militarily, take it away General:
"There is no military solution to a problem like that in Iraq, to the insurgency of Iraq," Petraeus told a news conference, adding that political negotiations were crucial to forging any lasting peace.
If St. McCain really wants to make the 2008 election about Obama's refusal to acknowledge just how awesome Iraq is and that an organization that endorsed him said mean things about David Petraeus, he's going to be in for a long campaign.
UPDATE
On Wednesday, a top adviser to John McCain said more definitively than he has in the past that he will step down from the Arizona senator's presidential campaign if the presumed GOP nominee faces Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., in the general election.
"I would simply be uncomfortable being in a campaign that would be inevitably attacking Barack Obama," said McCain adviser Mark McKinnon in an interview with NPR's "All Things Considered." "I think it would be uncomfortable for me, and I think it would be bad for the McCain campaign."
McKinnon clearly doesn't believe these kind of MoveOn/Iraq Is Awesome tactics will work on Obama. They failed in 2006. They will fail in an even bigger way in 2008.
Share This 
Spotlight
BT!
Here it comes
oh good another picture of the comedy ninja chins
Ewwww that scary organization…. MoveOn… OMG….. a bunch of everyday citizens who was formed during the Clinton impeachment …. with lets moveon to something more important!
McCain is working to consolidate the Republican base. Those folks like attacks on MoveOn.org and calls for “victory” in Iraq.
Time to throw down the gloves and aim for the nose.
It is now mid February, the election is in November,lot’s of rounds left to pound the Right wing noise machine into the ground and lot’s of combinations to do it with.
McCain had only achieved the rank of Captain by the time he left the military, but he knew and experienced torture. Yet he sacrificed his principles to political expediency when he gave up his crusade to get on McBush’s good side.
Absolutely.
But they tried this in 2006 and it failed. It’s weird. They’re stuck in this 2002-2003-2004 the war on terra is teh awesome mode and can’t get out of it.
Hey, hot stuff. Will you be my valentine, if I promise to try really hard never to misinterpret your comments ever again?
Morning Blue Texan, this is OT, haven’t seen it mentionned here.
In the stale food departement:
Integral Rice
Right now the problem is not McCain. It is the Clintons who are out to steal the nomination and drag the rest of us with them. The Clintons played the race card again in Pennsylvania, now claim through “Julian Bond” they are entitled to the delgates from fl and mi and that superdelegates should be “independent”. SDs were never designed to have an impact on the nomination process but instead were a way to get the hacks on the floor of the convention after big state hacks were excluded from the floor at the 72 McGovern convention. The Clintons are just spinning more bs on the superdelegates which should not vote at all. All SDs and UADs should now withdraw from voting at the convention, period and the rules should be changed now to ensure that.
My questions for McBush….
Please define Victory and just exactly who will surrender and sign a peace agreement?
Do you plan to attend ANY funerals of our military lost in Iraq & Afghanistan?
Now that you have “embraced” the wacky right and their stand on immigration…… explain your plan to export 12 million undocumented persons?
Sorta OT - Would someone please explain why John McCain is called “St. John” so often in the blogosphere? I referred to him that way in an email to my kids, and my daughter wanted to know why, and I didn’t have an answer, and Google hasn’t helped.
Right.
Clintons = “root of all evil” and “the evil empire”. Got it.
I’m not sure, but I think Atrios started it. It’s about the MSM’s crush on him, that he can do no wrong in their eyes.
I dont want our party to fight itself. All the Clintons talk about who is important and who is not is divisive and their bragging that the will of the people will be ignored is very bad for our side.
All the Republicans who are liking Obama will be disenfranchised. She wants to get rid of Dean badly.
Because the media has deified him. He’s the maverick, a straight talker, a hero, bold, combative, he takes no prisoners, he’s respected, he’s bi-partisan, walks on water, poops gold ingots, heals cripples…..
-G
I am growing quite nervous over this gambit. If Obama wins the numbers game and then the super delegates wrest the prize away it will be civil war.
-G
Your claim:
is at odds with everything I’ve read and/or remember about the establishment of the superdelegate systems, e.g., http://kvnuforthepeople.com/?p=1460
And one more time for the Clintons, as you would have it, maybe this time we can get up to 80% foreign fuel dependency. Clintons=irresponsibility. When our dependence on foreign oil increased 18% (92-00) the Clintons did nothing, absolutely nothing to develop an alternative to a fossil fuel eceonomy, instead they talk about how great “their” economy was.
Howdy, Blue Texan!
Hey Bio.
Tee hee. Thanks BT and GregB. I’ll pass that along.
Kirk Murphy posted an article here within the past week where he compared the environmental policy proposals of Clinton and Obama. On nearly ever point, Clinton had the superior proposal, but not by so all that much. Murphy was disappointed in both.
I think Blue Texan covered it before me. It also is said with extreme sarcasm. Also, I wonder how bad Tweety’s man crush is going to get since Rudy and Frederick of Hollywood are both toast.
I think because in the media’s eyes he can do no wrong?
Hi Biodun. Saw our mutual friend last night. Beaming smile when I mentioned your name. He said you are crazy - in a great way. Laughed loudly when I mentioned native wine.
Josh Marshall has a stellar quote from Mark Penn:
Where do Democrats find these brilliant political consults?
I read the CBS story you refer to. It is not on point,
Whatever impact sds had on Gary Hart and Mondale is not the point. SDs were not designed to have an impact but as a way to reward party hacks with floor privileges. SDs should not be allowed to vote, period. Since when do we allow unelected representatives to vote or make decisions, except for the judiciary. Unelected SDs have no legitimate role to play in this election or any election. If SDs want to be on the floor of the convention and go to the best parties, so be it. But that is the limit. The Democratic Party should be embarassed at this juncture by the Clintons attempt to misue the democratic process. Akbeit, Obama needs to re-think his position as well.
Hezbollah is calling for open war against Israel.
This is going to go downhill really fast.
-G
Please provide a reference for this claim, which is at odds with everything I remember and have read on the matter.
Greg B, Isn’t that what Bush and the neocons want?
snowbird42 at #16
February 14th, 2008 at 7:22 am
”I dont want our party to fight itself. All the Clintons talk about who is important and who is not is divisive and their bragging that the will of the people will be ignored is very bad for our side.
All the Republicans who are liking Obama will be disenfranchised. She wants to get rid of Dean badly.”
I think we desperately need to keep using the ”Have You Had Enough” theme. Clintons are part of that! Never thought I’d see the day when I had had enough of the Clintons, but between her vote on Iraq, Iran, and her espousing the effort to make flag burning illegal, and now her going after David Shuster, and Bill’s blatant campaign lying (”I’ve been against the Iraq war since the beginning!), I’ve had enough. Other that those things, I really liked them when they were in office. Unfortunately, I think they have now spent all their political capital.
But which cauldron will Bush choose? Just today, we have your story on Hezbollah vs. Israel, we have al quaeda threatening the Philipines and we have US diplomats leaking “intelligence” to the IAEA regarding nuke plans by Iran.
So many targets, so little time left in office…
Anyone heard the dispute going on between Larry Johnsons & Kos? Thought this was interesting.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2.....#more-1523
Captain in the US Navy is full colonel in the other services. Not defending McCain, whom I can’t stand, just saying “only” captain is not a strong argument.
Obama gets a lot of money from the Nuclear Power industry..(maybe not a bad thing..considering global warming)
NYT
He is a big proponent of Ethanol (IMO, a bad thing)
The vast majority of Superdelegates are, in fact elected officials - Democrats elected to their posts by the voters in their districts, states, etc.
A better case for the influence of “unelected representatives” would be the caucus system, which allows a tiny percentage of the voting population to make decisions affecting all.
But of course that construction would fail to feed your narrative…
Diane! Thanks for the link. Maybe Krugman will read some of Larry’s posts and decide that the Clintons have emotional backers also. Sounds like the Clintons have cult like followers also.
My experience working on the McCarthy campaign in 68, the McGovern campaign in 72, hearings before the Rules Comitteees at both Conventions and reporting in the MSM through 1980. Sorry I cannot do better than that.
This is somewhat annectodal (sp) but by way of example at the 68 convention Richard Hughes, then Governor of New Jersey, chaired the rules committee at the Chicago convention and the New Jesey delegation. At the 72 Miami convention, McGovern had swept the June 72 primary in New Jersey and the New Jersey delegation was co-chaired by a former Yankee pitcher, Jim Bouton and another person whose name I do not remember. The party regulars had supported Muskie, were excluded, and were fit to be tied and so started the “super delegate” process.
My point is we should not have any unelected delegates voting at any Democratic convention
I was not aware how “un-democratic” the caucus system was until this election cycle. Hopefully after the dust settles from the Nov elections, we can push for a regional, rotating primary system.
It’s pretty easy to misinterpret what I say! and yes
I think the neo-con strategy has Hamas-Hezbollah-Syria-Iran in a continuim and they are all on in the same and therefore any strategy to deal with one is a strategy to deal with them all.
I think they want to push a response that will scoop them all together.
So there will be a multi-fronted assault on them all.
-G
yellowdogD at #36
February 14th, 2008 at 7:46 am
”Captain in the US Navy is full colonel in the other services. Not defending McCain, whom I can’t stand, just saying “only” captain is not a strong argument.”
Correction understood and accepted. I apologize for any unintended mis-statements. However, a full bird colonel is still not the equivalent (I presume) of the several (Is it up to seven or eight now?) generals with all those stars that have also said that there is no military solution to this war.
If Clinton is successful in getting Mich. and Fla. delegates and wins the nomination thusly, she will gurantee a Repub win in November.
Woo Hoo. I’m so glad.
So, ya want chocolates or what?
(I got my honey the new Herbie Hancock album. ‘Cause he likes jazz and Joni Mitchell was my soundtrack years ago.)
OT..It isn’t just the Muslims:
(snip)
(snip)
link
McCain will beat Clinton and get beat by Obama. What more do we need to know? Forget CA, NY, IL and the true blue states, look to purple states like CO to see what will happen. Current poll: Obama over McCain 46-39, McCain over Clinton 49-35. Not. Even. Close.
Wow - so much yelling at the refs by the Obamites - and all before a whistle has even been blown.
If you’re going to change the rules of the game at half time, then at least change them in a way that is fair and consistent. If all votes should be counted, without a say by the superdelegates, then there should be a new contest in Michigan and Florida to allow for that. The people of those states didn’t create the situation that denied them their votes. Further, if the rules are to be changed, it should be done before we know how the outcome will be affected. Otherwise, the rule change would be exactly what you profess to be against - having the party “elite” choose the nominee.
That should be an “isn’t”..where is the edit function?
I agree on both.
FWIW, the current requirements and delegate count of needing 2025 out of 4049 for the nomination does not include delegates for either MI or FL. If those delegates are added back into the mix, all totals will be increased accordingly.
My point is, even if those states ARE added back in the mix with a distribution of some sort, it does not guarantee a Clinton win.
Nor was I, until this year. I agree with you, primary voting is key to true democracy in our party. I read that the caucus system is favored by the states because it is free, as opposed to the expense of running an election.
But we need to get human growth hormone out use into the public - and up soon video taping by the Pats. Priorities first please.
Note too: now that they have publicized HGH in this way, the use is going through the roof by teens. (Used to be undercover, now, well, it is out there.
Note three: Remember the right taking on Bill Clinton’s Monica affair, and his insistance he did not have “sex” with her, and it came out to be oral sex? Well all the publicizing of this at the time through the right wing scandalizing and reporting publicly on TV news, by NPR, Limbaugh, and others has meant that teen and pre-teen oral sex activities have gone through the roof.
Again going after people publicly as a means of condemning related activities, often has the opposite impact of legitimating and promoting that same act. (No doubt some youngsters and oldsters are also seeing bathrooms in a new light thank to going after stretch Craig.
mccain has already begun using the rove playbook and strategy
the strategy is as follows;
“no matter if it is false, say it like it’s a fact and people will believe it”
that strategy actually works and the only way to inoculate against it is to point it out;
“wow, mccain said something he knows false and said it as though it’s a fact, he thinks that tactic is going to convince people”
anyway, that’s what they will do and it will get more vicous and incredible as they realize how far they have to go to win
Ann in AZ @44-
Eight…if you count both shoulders. .)g
What I love in all of this is how it reflects Bush’s brilliant strategy of bringing/forcing Democracy and then being unhappy with the results, and seeking to overturn them. On Israel and its mid-east neighbors there are many sides to the story.
Did you see this story?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....86559.html
Ethics panel says Craig acted improperly.
Well, yeah.
The simple point is who in the Democratic Party is for unelected delegates voting for the nominee?
I agree that there should be bona fide primaries in FL and MI and the DNC “screwed” up on this by not attempting to have those primaries re-scheduled.
They’re talking about it on msnbc right now…
“Dammit, they’re not votin’ the way they’re ’spose to!” *g*
Lincoln Chaffee endorses Obama. Wow. That will be interesting for moderate Republicans!
No it won’t. Everyone will go lie down by their dishes and grumble under their breath(s). It is the way of things.
As for “He was wrong when he said we could not win militarily,” does is strike anyone else as the epitome of double-speak from John “100 years” McCain?
If McKinnon is unwilling to work a McCain vs Obama campaign it seems
to me, from McK’s track record as a Ann Richards operative before
Bush, that he anticipates humiliation and loss, the Bush SC tactics
will enrage the electorate, he will go back to Austin and work the
state races for the family.
Yup. And here of course you had the diebolt machines and the failure to count the vote in Florida - and now Washington. Also we now have this horrible mess in Kenya (Diebolt type machines there too, I read).
That needs to be done in conjunction with his claims of being honest. Honest people don’t lie repeatedly.
-G
That’s the way I saw it.
Obama would never ask McCain if he agreed with Falwell that gays caused 9/11.
It would offend his base.
I’m talking history, not should and shouldn’t, and I was responding to your claim that:
So far as I know, exactly the opposite is true, i.e., the superdelegates were added in 1980 exactly to give more control to the party insiders and to a limited extent to thwart the will of the people, which had brought outsider candidates, McGovern and Carter, whom the party insiders felt were disasters.
Yup.
and it’s unbelievable what wonderful things can be accomplished in an environment of truth and freeness, freedom.
*sigh*
It’s not too much to wish for.
Well, this is very good news for business at my airport (MSP). God knows we don’t want this story to go away lest we have to close the Biffy Shrine.
I am on the other side of the delegates issue, I like the delegates
they don’t vote as a block, they represent progressive groups like womens groups and indian affairs groups and they have to be won just like states delegates
I think this is good, it insures a progressive has a progressive agenda and I like it
what I don’t like is obama making a big deal about it, he knew the rules, he knew about teh super delegates, if he can’t win their vote he wants to change the rules?
that’s rediculous
it’s also rediculous hillary wants the states delegates that were de certified
what is wrong with these people?…I’ll tell you;
they are both tragically flawed candidates
Something about the photo at top reminds me of Charlie C. in The Great Dictator.
“Mac Is Back” needs to add this website to his daily reading. http://icasualties.org/oif/ Some of todays headlines:
Baghdad a Maze of Sectarian Mistrust
Idle Bridge a Symbol of Baghdad’s Sectarian Divide
Soldier Loses Custody of Child After Iraq Tour
Bipolar Soldier Taken From Hospital, Sent To War
I just wont vote.
I fully support Israel’s right to defend itself and to exist. But I also support rights for Palestinians to defend themselves and to exist to.
-G
Israel has put their citizens on high alert for terrorist attacks and kidnappings.
The killing of Mugniyah seems destined to bring about much more violence and instability. Just what the shock doctrine folks desire most.
Can’t be as you say it is for two reasons: (1) the SDS are really designed not to control any convention since the party regulars are not for brokered or multi ballot conventions; and (2) your history starts in 1980 when the movement for superdelegates actually started at the 72 convention.
The SDs will only have influence for the Clintons, potentially, because of Fl and MI. Thus the whole SD process was, historically, cosmetic, a seat on the floor and access to the best parties. Now we have a problem with it because of the Clintons.
Looks like Obama is the presuemed nominee in the McCain camp. Either that or he’s less worried about being able to beat Hillary than Obama.
Just this morning Hillary has her attack dogs out pressing for seating the Florida and Michigan deligates. How can there be a more clear example of her integrity (or lack thereof). They always try not to mention that Obama wasn’t even on one of those tickets.
Such a move flies so obviously in the face of fairness, that it can’t help but backfire on her in upcoming primaries.
I’m sure they reconise that, but must calculate that they can’t win at this point, so damn the upcoming primaries, let’s try to steal the nomination. Sadly, this puts Hillary in the same ilk as GWB, and I never though that would be a comparison that Hillary would deserve.
you must
no matter what we need a hope, we need a democrat in office, no matter how flawed you believe these candidates are, I make the following prediction;
if the next president is a democrat they will be recorded in american history among the greatest that ever served
you must vote
I would rate this as highly significant intel from inside their campaign,
internal polls and the instinct of a professional consultant must have
set off an alarm… interesting indeed.
Not to say I think the superdelegate system (or the caucus system) is great, but I think it was a result of the McGovern nomination. The people chose a candidate who couldn’t win, consigning us to more evil R. rule.
Let’s turn the tables on your argument a little. Imagine that, at the end of all the primaries, Hillary was winning by 5 votes. At the same time, a huge scandal erupted about her that would definitely affect her chance of being elected - should the superdelegates weigh in? Or do we go with Hillary - even though she would lose? Whatever, your answer might be, I would hope that it would be the same in the case of Obama.
Something just dawned on me. McCain is truly an idiot. If he was smart, he’d point out Bush’s mistakes, say he’d pull troops from Europe and Japan, go in with Powell-doctrine overwhelming force and stabilize the country so the United States can leave Iraq as a strong regional ally. Now some Democrats know this is impossible, but the vast majority of Americans would swallow it and more importantly, it fits with St. John’s image as a heroic old soldier who actually knows how to fight a war (never mind that he’s fighting the last one). But instead, the man talks about occupying Iraq for 100 years, with no details of how we’d “win.” If he can’t fool some of the people some of the time, how does he expect to be President?
Suddenly I am turning into Raven, but, here goes.
McCain could very well win this thing.
In the 1972 election, Tricky Dick, the criminal with the black operations network and the escalation of war beat out McGovern, the most honest man in politics who promised to end the war.
-G
all your candidates are belong to suck
that is a really good point, and I assume if something came out against both, the delegates would nominate edwards, or gore if he would take it
I like the super delegate system as long as they are voting as individuals and not as a block
I have lived to see stupidity reign supreme. This noodle defends the idiot’s truly brilliant work, and then offers to continue it. Countdown to yellow matter custard.
MSNBC - superdelegate switches from clinton to obama - i didnt catch her name, i think they said she was from NJ
It is a hard nut to crack, and, not today, but I bet this is probably the only place on the web we could address this thoughtfully.
I predict an October Surprise, possibly violent.
Where is Kiddo when we need him/them?
That and the system is so totally bollixed no decent person can emerge at the end..
As for this whole damn delegate pissing match. Both candidates agreed to the rules at the outset and should stick to their agreements. Is it fair to the voters? No
Sometimes you can call wolf too many time. And even when the wolf is there, it no longer is seen to be a mortal threat.
George Bush and Co. have sentenced another generation to the trauma of war and how it ripples through the lives of those surrounding the soldier. I despise George Bush and what he has done to US.
You raise a good point and by way of example, let’s take the Clintons’ tax returns. The Clintons have refused to disclose their returns until after they get the nomination. They get the nomination with SDs. They still refuse to disclose their tax returns. McCain does disclose. The Clintons still refuse to disclose. That potential scenario is more likely than not to happen.
I will go with an all elected delegate convention. No SDs, no UADs and what happens, happens. The Clintons or Obama or someone else. The SD thing is fundamentally undemocratic.
John McCain speaking live on MSNBC. And, who is standing up with him? That would be, my friends, Larry Craig.
Yep, that’s the guy I want supporting me.
the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court, the supreme court.
See…that’s why these networks counting super delegates in the total count are being very misleading. Some other super delegates have already switched. What’s the point of adding extremely fluid and non-binding numbers to delegates won through voting? (technically the pledged delegates can switch at the convention, but this rarely happens…if ever?)
perris is right.
My feelings towards Clinton have always been ambivalent, but have moved towards malevalence. However, a Repug as President is an option we cannot afford. Alito, Thomas, Scalia, Roberts. As it stands now, we need 100% of the rest of the court on any issue. One more like them, and we’re even more screwed.
You MUST vote.
Quiet Revolution: Part One — Strategy [h/t CHS & AFJ]
I’m guessing August or September. It will take some time to “calm the masses” before they simply accept their fate in November.
Yes M’am.
You said it.
FOUR
MORE
YEARS
mark mckinnon is simply hedging his bets in an attempt to stay relevant to whatever party is in power in DC.
he was a democrat in austin because that was the way to be involved; he moved over to bush when that appeared an easy path to money & power; and now he’s crafting his jump back to the dems by praising obama and stepping away from st john of mccain.
mckinnon is nothing if not calculating, not unlike most political advisors. it’s just that mckinnon moves from one side of the aisle to the other with a frequency that brings into question his integrity.
I mean - he’s totally in tune with bush, and now with obama? what’s the common denominator for mckinnon, if not access to the top job in the land?
More on the Supreme Court. Those four are the youngest, and they’re very young. We could be looking at 25 years before replacing even one of them. We need Democratic presidents for an extended period of time.
Coincidentally, the 9/11 death penalty trials should be gettin going right about then.
hey blue texan and any legal folks: is there a way to impeach members of the supreme court?
if malfeasance is grounds, maybe there’s a way to show that the scalitos and thomases of the court could be removed.