Suzanne!

Suzanne!

Would I be off topic if I were to say something on topic?

Hi, Redshift.

laughing – shall i double dog dare ya?

hey redshift

There’s a mobius strip joke there somewhere…

everyone got their toes tappin?

Somewhere…! ;-)

I don’t think Sen. Larry Craig reads this blog…

Ooh, I’m gonna cut the fudge shortly… It should be sufficiently hardened…

That vid is very Spinal Tap-ish. Since they were in Holland, I expected a giant windmill descend from the heavens, spinning to cool off all those drummers.

That’s the worst Larry Craig joke I’ve ever seen!

ok, that can be taken two completely different ways, ct

Hmmm… that didn’t come out quite right…! ;-)

as can that one ct (laughing)

there you go again

Don’t mind me I’ll be in the corner enjoying it…! 8-P

Very nice catch, Suz. Larry and I are tapping our toes. Ewwww.

*wiping eyes* dayam, i needed that laugh

zomg are there really 1,000?

yes, there really are 1,000 drummers, teddy.

The Fudge, Can I quit while I’m ahead…?

not even to mention countless toe tappers.

Here’s a “funny joke” from last nite’s Congressional Press Club Dinner, or something. One of those stupid DeeCee events where the bigwigs get together and tell “jokes” about each other.

Perhaps the most provocative line of the night came from Senate Minority Leader McConnell, who introduced Cornyn. McConnell noted that the Democratic presidential primary has boiled down to two candidates: “A New York senator who was born in Illinois, and an Illinois senator who was apparently born in a manger.”

I wonder if Mary Ann “Sleuthy” Akers will get in trouble for telling these stories outta school. I don’t think reporters are supposed to report at these events….

no ct

Happy Valentine’s, Late, Late Niters! *g*

So all this talk of “reaching across the aisle” and “bipartisanship” has gone so far out of control that the phrases are meaningless, right?

I’ve been trying to settle on a way to re-state these terms if for no other reason than to amuse myself.

How about “Reach (around) across the aisle.” “Bending over across the aisle.” “Kneeling down across the aisle.”

In reference to Traitor Joe, since he’s been in how many different parties since Lamont kicked his bony little hadassah in the primary, we can’t use “bipartisan” anymore. There was/is CT for Liberman. Then he was Independent. Now Independent Democrat. Soon to be Republican.

Is he a tri-partisan? quad-partisanship? sep-partisan? Help, I’m so confused!

happy VDay, CT

Happy V-Day! On that cheery note,

We Don’t Need Mukasey to Vote Contempt for Meirs and Rove–Time to Get it Done

Nothing like voting contempt without Mukasey to get the bipartisan bonds where they should be.

did you see the article in the news box about the NYTimes cutting 100 staff?

The House Judiciary Committee voted in July to hold Mr. Bolten and Ms. Miers in contempt. The House’s Democratic leadership has been trying to figure out the pros and cons ever since. The public needs to hear the testimony of these officials (along with Karl Rove, who is also refusing to appear), and the full House should vote as quickly as possible to hold them in contempt.

The House should also approve a resolution authorizing the Judiciary Committee to go to court to enforce the contempt citations if the current attorney general, Michael Mukasey, as expected, refuses to do so.

Basically this was what the House did today, which sparked the subsequent hissy-fit by the Repugs… Wasn’t it quite the spectacle, them trooping out of the Chamber…? ;-)

Is that to pay for Kristolknacht’s salary?

I still think Inherent Contempt would be more effective, maybe KKKRove would be the first since ‘35…! *g*

Ya know how “when a bell rings, an angel gets their wings?”

Well, when a Republican laughs, an angel gets waterboarded.

I wonder if the last hired first fired rule is in play…

Wasn’t it quite the spectacle, them trooping out of the Chamber…? ;-)

…to an awaiting podium with microphones in place, lighting, and a bunch of TV cameras. And they have the nerve to accuse Dems of “grandstanding.” Pathetic!

Couldn’t happen to a nicer feller…! ;-)

Shoot yeah!
I feel like I’m on trucker crank
(whatever that means;)

Remember, IOKIYAR!!!

Oops, I slipped, Suz! ;-)

IOKIYAR

OK…I feel like a total nerd, or not one depending on perspective, but I don’t know what that one means.

It’s OK If You’re A Republican.

It’s OK If You Are Republican, IOKIYAR! *g*

I owe ya a Coke!

They spontaneously exited to awaiting microphones.

just in case anybody missed it, check out watertiger’s brilliant McCain valentine image and verse.

assume the position

watertiger is a sick kitty, but she’s our sick kitty and i am glad

I thought Boehner was gonna break out in tears again…! ;-)

Cuffs ready? *g*

cats are always welcome at the lake – especially the ones who like water

Not yet Suzanne. After the op-ed page I started reading the long article on Michelle Obama backwards of course. I didn’t know her brother was the basketball coach at Brown University.

It’s already the next day, and I have just started through Thursday’s. They have had some belt tightening to do, like a lot of newspapers facing so much web competition. Actually, readership of major newspapers is climbing on and because of the web, but print sales are falling off. And as more people have very compact nifty little machines to surf the web like the spinoffs of the Iphone and pretty soon powerful computers that fit in their pocket this is going to climb.

It’s my favorite newspaper, but they aren’t infallible. I’ve noticed as Glenn Greenwald points out, that their articles on FISA have been somewhat shallow, because they are trying to condense a lot of manuevering in Congress into a single sentence or two.

Times to Cut 100 New Jobs

The Times has 1,332 newsroom employees, the largest number in its history; no other American newspaper has more than about 900.

Ah, thanks.

assume the position, ct

The Times has 1,332 newsroom employees, the largest number in its history; no other American newspaper has more than about 900.

Sounds like a race to the bottom to me. Will the last overpaid ink-stained wretch please turn out the lights?

hey you two, get a room

*g* (i think)

I think Boner just wanted to catch some rays outside. He ran out of bronze spray and the next pallet isn’t due in until next week.

Whaa.. no hands on the hips…? ;-)

Would that mean, like, a “wide stance”?

ct’s been asking for this for a long time, teddy.

tick tock, ct, tick tock

I don’t think “Radar” actually ever found “Love.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_O’Reilly

My wifey-poo might take offense… *g*

God! I assumed that the snivelling pants-pisser had broken into tears. These assholes are a national disgrace. Nowhere in their job descriptions is there a duty to “protect the American people.” Rather, they are sworn to uphold and protect the Constitution “against all enemies both foreign and domestic.”

Do these guys know nothing of our founding fathers:

– Patrick Henry: “Give me liberty, or give me death.”

– Benjamin Franklin: “Those who would trade essential liberties for a bit of safety deserve neither and will lose both.

– William Pitt: “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”

They were elected to protect our liberty; not to scare the piss out of us about our own mortality.

Remember they had the wall up with Times Select where you couldn’t read a lot of their columnists without a subscription. Then their bean counters realized that they made more revenue if they allowed total access to the paper on the web, because advertisers counted the clicks and more clicks happened if they took the wall down. There were also sites that posted all the articles without the wall too.

Even though I can read it on the web, I still get the print everyday.

I noticed too, that they are putting up scores of blogs–not just the famous people like Krugman, but wine blogs, cooking blogs, software and hardware blogs to name a few.

I like Gail Collins who used to help run their editorial page. Now she writes a regular column, and it’s pretty good.

Notes from a Caucus

Well there goes my idea of Obama picking OH Gov Ted Strickland as his VP…

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..66936.aspx

“against all enemies both foreign and domestic.”

But, Corporatism isn’t covered, nor, Multinationals…!

wow, maybe those letters and calls to MSNBC opened some eyes:

When asked what he meant by triple and quadruple standards, Strickland gave a few examples.

“Well, you know, you gotta be strong. You gotta be appropriately emotional. You can’t be too critical of your opponent, but you’ve got to be critical enough. It goes on and on and on. There are assessments made of Sen. Clinton that would never be even considered for a male candidate,” he said.

The stats in the big 3 states to come show him cutting deeply and rapidly into Clinton’s leads day by day. I hope this is a valid trend.

And I might add it doesn’t look like she has anyway to win by 60% in Texas and Ohio.

dayam, ct never assumed the position – i’ll not be able to use my ‘book ‘em dano’ line (sigh)

The way I should have phrased that was that she doesn’t seem to have anyway to garner 60% of the vote in Texas and Ohio which she needs, not by 60% and I believe there is going to be some rapid catching up to her lead.

She is the lady of “solutions” according to her husband, and one solution she is unable to make happen is to win by enough votes to stay viable it looks like.

ct… it’s the least you can do here in Late Late Nite…
for the pups!

Apparently, it’s a band, among other things.

That “solutions” rhetoric is such a transparent gimmick. By coincidence, as shown on Olbermann, both Sen. Clinton and her husband, in different states, began to use that term on the same day.

I also think it’s kind of absurd for Sen. Clinton to make speeches in which she belittles her opponent for making (better) speeches.

Hah, As if! Would you…? ;-)

Make it a coffee.;)

tds is shredding roger clemons testimony

I noticed Carley Fiorina’s dad died over the weekend. He was very conservative on the 9th, and that means Bush will be quick to put some monstrocity on the 9th Circuit soon. If the dems have a brain, they will hold that appointment up until after the election.

Joe Sneed Dies–9th Circuit Appeals Judge for 34 Years

He was very conservative on the 9th…

Heh, isn’t that an oxymoron…? They don’t call it the wacky ninth for nothing…!

I’m trying to be objective here, but I’ve watched a lot of her speeches lately, and with a reputation for being a policy wonk and in command of details I have to say–she is tossing out some of the most nebulous aphorisms–”I’m the person of solutions” meaning what the hell.

If she is the person of solutions, why won’t she release the 1.5 million documents as to what the solutions were on her 1990’s health care plan where she had months in the white house and all kinds of resources to make a health care plan. Why is she so guarded as to that “solution?” She spent a lot of secret time on it with Ira Magaziner, but we never found out what their plan was.

McNamee’s lawyer said Clemens stuck his neck out to tesify and risked getting a case of perjury thrown at him because he is so close with the Bush family he knows he would get a pardon from the president. However Bush would be out of office probably long before the case even went to trial.

gee, pete, that “we never found out what their plan was” makes your statement sound more like an accusation than an objective question.

Actually, if you break the 9th Circuit down judge by judge, while the media is quick to paint it as the liberal circuit, they are pretty evenly divided as to liberal and conservative judges. I know Republicans in Congress who know little about appellate law but think they do–like Orin Hatch who never practiced a day of law in federal court and Specter who also never practiced a day of federal law like to paint them as “wild and crazy guys” but they have about the same number of libreals and conservatives and some opinions get a lot of print when the Supremes who are now very conservative reverse them, but that’s misleading.

I like the judge who is married to a federal defender. He’s been pretty consistently liberal and defense oriented on the panels.

jon also laid into the r’s for their fawning over clemons. now i understand what jane’s post last night about the sports guys was all about – i did not see the hearing.

lol, I didn’t know.
I read some music reviews and that is a description I remember.

Eleanor Norton Holmes was asked by Charlie Rose the other nite about Hill’s ‘experience’, to which she replied; ‘what experience?’

Unfortunately, they’re the most overturned circuit…!

She won’t tell us Suzanne, and the way she obfuscates about the release of the papers makes it worse. She has been asked over and over again to release those papers for years and she also has ridiculously said “I thought everything that was supposed to be released has been.” Actually there are about 1.6 million health care documents that have not been released and she knows it and she and she alone is keeping them from being released–okay the other half of Billiary is as well.

The papers are in the Clinton library. Her old Rose law firm partner, Bruce Lindsay is the gatekeeper for all the Clinton papers in that library. She has said “I dunno why the papers aren’t released ’cause it’s not my call.” Well–I’m not quite that dumb. Bruce Lindsay does what Billiary wants done, and Billary doesn’t want them released.

I know I’m a broken record here, but the donors of that hundreds of million dollar library fund are definitely within the purvue of our right to know. They’re refusing to release them. Why do we have every right to know while she’s running for the highest office in the land? Because we have the right to know who the donors are with major money to what essentially is the co-President wannabe.

The Dem’s laid into the Rocket tho, it was gruesome…

My guess is that’s where the band’s name came from. I must have seen two or three page’s worth of references to this or that kind of music on trucker crank, even ballroom. Since it appears to be a very powerful amphetamine, I’d say that anything played under its influence would be pretty awful.

Nevertheless, it’s a popular metaphor.

After several of them and their staffers asked for autographs of course.

The thing that strikes me about this baseball investigation is that it’s been pretty selective. Steroid use and HCG has probablybeen much, much wider on a large scale by numbers than the people who have been in the news or Judge Mitchell investigated.

And the funny thing about HCG is that if you drill the med lit on it, that HCG does anything significant at all except show up in your urine is largely the consensus.

It was one of the most riveting and dramatic hearings I’ve ever watched, but I’m a baseball fan so…..Waxman was great, banging his gavel at the big 7 time Cy Young award Texas pitcher when he spoke out of turn trying to argue with him. The partisan bickering was at an all time best. Clemens lobbied the republican panel members heavy the few days before the hearing and I understand that if Clemens signed any autographs that would fall into unethical behavior. Accepting gifts of monetary value from a witness before a hearing is illegal.

I caught that clip of Eleanor Norton Holmes on Charlie Rose – love her dead pan delivery – her comedic timing is much improved since her Cobert appearance.

why are you so focused on it pete?

*waving to NPB* thanks for a fabulous tour of your museum today, and lunch – what a treat. thank you

I used to collect Sports Illustrated covers and get the autographs which was fun because you not only had to have the guy or the girl in front of you (I wouldn’t buy ‘em –I had to get them myself–and I also knew the autographs were real that way). I caught up with the Rocket at a Sports show where a lot of athletes showed up, and I had 3 covers.

Clements grabbed the one that had the headline on the cover–something like–I remember it had a lot of orange in it “Roger Clements–the craziest baseball player ever.” He grabbed that out of my hand and punched it and said “This one. It’s by far my favorite.”

At the risk of repeating myself (see comments), I bet at least two-thirds of Congress would rather talk about steroid use in baseball than about torture. Let’s see, would I rather talk about how someone else is messing up the American pastime or about how I and my colleagues allowed innocent people (and a few not-so-innocent ones) to be carted all over the world and tortured?

Gotta think that one over for a while. OK, I’m done.

What possesed you to use those ‘roids, Son?

It’s HGH, Human Growth Hormone, I agree tho, about Mitchell’s impartiality, in particular to my beloved BoSox, considering he was, and still is a member of the BoSox Board of Directors… It might also explain the large contingent of Yanks being named…! ;-)

Just did an update and it installed firefox3 and wiped out all my setting from firefox2!!!

beta?

By the way, it’s good to see you again. You were missed.

firefox beta 3, man i thought firefox 2 was sluggish!

wiped your bookmarks?

I gotta give the House credit today tho, they did us proud for a couple of weeks at least…! Or Feb. 25th, which ever comes sooner…

installed firefox2 again from mozilla, runs better than the ubuntu version.

Dude!

Thanks – it’s been a little hectic lately.

it ate all my cookie!!!111

Yes, they did. I can’t figure out what suddenly got into them. They’ve mostly been doormats for the last fourteen months, and now all of a sudden they’re acting like the opposition? I don’t get it.

I loved Christy’s picture from this afternoon, BTW.

Colbert is tearing into Rocket…!

Shhhhhhiiiiiiit!

That’s very easy. She’s disingenuous, hypocritical and phony. She’s now falling in the only 3 states that can save her, and I don’t want her as President of the U.S. I had one huge asshole that broke a lot of this country for 7 years and just doesn’t care how many cliffs he drives over like Thelma and Louise at the end–although they had a lot more justification for driving off the cliff you could argue.

I have never trusted her. Come on you don’t know jack about cattle futures and you take a grand and turn it into 100 grand over night. It doesn’t happen ever. But she did it.

I thought White Watter was a huge waste of money. But when you have the resources of the President’s wife and you claim you can’t find law firm records fo 18 months and the only reason you can moon the Special Counsel subpoening you and not end up in prison for contempt (their friend sure did for 18 months) is that you’re the wife of the President and when pressure is building so that shit hits the fan all the records turn up in your frigging living room 18 months after the subpoena.

I believe this is a cold, cruel woman whenever she wants to be. I think her daughter is very muchy the same way, and I saw the spoiled brat get pissed off a few weeks ago when a cell phone went off. Also Chelsea (before she went to selected and I mean very selected colleges where she thinks she won’t be asked anything challenging) wasn’t talking to the press.

She wasn’t talking to them because she was afraid to. A 4th grade kid came up and asked her some question from Scholastic Magazines–the guys that put out “My Weekly Reader” and she turned coldly to this 9 year old and said “I don’t talk to the press–that means you.” To me that’s not using common sense on the campaign trail.

My comments towards Hillary are no more prolific or focused than hundreds of comments here or elsewhere on Obama or Clinton.

You’ll get them back, don’t worry. I flush them every time I close Firefox. There’s always more of them.

Ain’t that the truth…!

There are innocent people in the steroid/HGh scandal too. The thousand of kids in middle school and high school that are taking it because its use in professional sports inspires them to use it. A good number of these kids have died from it and as the Mitchell report states that is one of the main goals is to get it out of pro sports so it does’nt give young people a reason to try it.

i use a white list. but yeah, no biggy.

Who’s awake? I just got up. I have to deal with Hong Kong before their week is over…It’s 3:38 PM Friday there right now…

The House has gotten the sign that they can stand up to Bush. They absolutely need to keep doing it. Fuck these Gastapo idiots that think they can shove immunity down our throats.

As I’ve said many times, the Telcoms and the Comcoms had staffs that were full of lawyers hired from DOJ’s National Security Intelligence Unit. They had written the laws on wire tapping for years and years–then hopped corporate to double their salaries. They knew exactly what they were doing. This was not some situation where they were manipulated or misled or didn’t have a clue. They had no reason to think they would have indemnity unless Cheney and Addington said something like “Fuck it. We don’t follow any laws we don’t feel like and we wave 911 in their faces and fear monger and they fold like pansy asses.”

It’s 1:39 AM in Minneapolis right now. I live in different time-zones sometimes. I’ll have this schedule until August…

Not me! gunna sleep :)

ok, now i’m confused – i thought you were an obama supporter – are you or do you like him because he is not her – which is how your statement read to me.

you don’t like her. that would explain why your support of obama is to point out how terrible she is.

that is not going to change anyone’s mind, pete.

That’s a valid point but I guarandamntee you the kids have not gotten in medical trouble from HCG. If they got into trouble it was from anabolic steroids. I honestly don’t know if the Rocket is guilty or not. Judge Mitchell’s investigation is based on heresay rather than evidence from shaky shaky witnesses/snitches.

Don’t ya just love the International Date Line, it’s just next door to me…! ;-)

g’nite tw3k

There have never been any long-term studies of the effect of many of these steroids. How can anyone say what those kids died of? Healthy people die of over-exertion. It’s not common, but it happens. The only response to it is more meaningless witch hunts like the ones they’re having now. They’ll ruin a few careers, pass some meaningless legislation, and move on.

disclaimer? naaaaa

g’nite :)

no poof! yet but soon

I personally told my House critter, face to face, back in early August, that she’d lose my vote if she voted for PAA with Immunity… She hasn’t failed me yet!

Waving back across the magnificent Monterey Bay! Hugs to your incomparable zen sidekick Lord Token. ;~)

King Kaufman wrote an interesting essay on this subject a couple of weeks ago. Here’s me quoting him and some other references.

I know all about that dateline…I was in Kiribati with a bunch of friends to welcome the new millennium. I don’t have to tell you why Kiribati, it seems…Please enlighten our fellow FDLers who might not know why…*g*

ok, now i’m confused – i thought you were an obama supporter – are you or do you like him because he is not her – which is how your statement read to me.

I’ve changed a lot of minds in phone banks unless they’re lying to me. I’ve changed friends’ minds.

I’m crazy about him because he is Barzck Obama and has accomplished a ton and will be one of the most talented and qualified people to get into the Oval Office and he is not her who is insulting me with these aphorisms like she “can get things done.” He went out into neighborhoods and was an activist every day right after graduating from Columbia.

She’s been in the Senate 7 years; he’s been in four. I don’t see her authoring or fighting to get much significant legislation through. Obama helped carry the Ethics bill that is long overdue.

I resent that the Clintons will use any dirty trick they can to try to steal this election via Super Delegates, and hopefully his gains now in the 3 big states will make that impossible for her to do.

She knows damn well that there weren’t real elections in Florida and Michigan. She knows damn well that many many people stayed away from the polls. And what is not pointed out in the exhuberance and excitement over numbers of people voting is that this shitferbrains compressed primary schedule has resulted in a very small percent of the registered voters actually showing up at caucuses and primaries.

Washington State had 1% of the registered voters at their caucus. Weather wasn’t a significant factor. That ain’t good.

Where do you live?

Madness, Suzanne. Madness.

This song is always played at 4 am when I’m on some godforsaken highway in Utah, Arizona. Oklahoma…

It’s kept me awake and driving (that and the really cold bottle of Dr. Pepper jammed between my legs).

I have’nt read the whole investigation but have been following it in the papers pretty close. The Feds did raids on pharmacies in New York and Florida and came up with written prescriptions from a dentist to the named professional athletes and canceled checks written to the pharmacy and signed by the individual players and receipts paid for steroids purchased on numerous occasions. They have some pretty solid evidence they based their allegations on.

so why are you stressing her negatives instead of his positives? her negatives are more important to you than his positives? that does not convince me to want to support him – it makes me wonder why you purposely choose a confrontational tactic when that is the one least likely to get you the results you want.

I saw the sportswriter not a physician, on Colbert today, and he wasn’t being driven by statistical medically sophisticated studies. I will concede that opiate abuse and other non-prescription drug use is probably rising in teens, but not to the extent that shows like the Nightline theother night tried to underscore short on figures, (a show that’s really taken a nose dive since Kopel and his staff left), but no one who screams that lots of kids are dying of steroids has literature to back it up–or figures to back that up.

in a small cow town in NW PA

i’ve zoomed across the desert between palm springs and phoenix blaring it out my speakers. tis a nite driving song :)

It’s why I support Obama – when he is president every day will be like driving across the desert with this song blaring at 4 am.

I believe the Mitchell report does provide the stats and numbers on the youth figures…!

Well, I shall bid another fond adieu! Aloha Oe!!!

And ice cream and puppies.

I’m not a doctor but it states in the Mitchell report that steroids have a much greater enhanced effect on younger people than adults. Kids do it without the benefit of medical supervision or other educated advise and tend to overdo it and overdose. I would imagine they find out through autopsy and physical evidence if any.

nite tuttle

Hey Suzanne, forgot to say hi…You live in CA–LA area…I know that from your Facebook…

nope, biodun

i’m on the norcal/central cal border – santa cruz area at the northern tip of monterey bay – la is a long ways away from me

g’nite ct – enjoy packing your fudge or whatever it is you do with it

Packing? 8-P *poof*

Yep. If that evil Hillary gets in, its nothing but a daily shitstorm, potholes, clouds, cops beating up on the innocent, and unripe fruit.
I’m with Obama.

Sweet dreams, fond adeiu & aloha right back at ya CT.

so why are you stressing her negatives instead of his positives? her negatives are more important to you than his positives? that does not convince me to want to support him – it makes me wonder why you purposely choose a confrontational tactic when that is the one least likely to get you the results you want.

Actually Suzanne you seem to have me confused with Mandy Gruenwald or Maggie Williams. I make phone calls for Obama, but I’m not on any national stage and my point of view is not only shared by a lot of people here–I check these threads at all hours of the day even when I don’t have time to read many comments–I read enough to know that people here and people thorughout the country feel the same way I do.

I’m not *g* hurting Senator Obama’s chances, but I am sorry if my advocacy of him and distaste for Clinton(s) turns you off.

I do recognize that both Clintons have had solid success stories to be sure, and my hat’s off for that and that they have made the most of their opportunities.

We live in tough times and I want the most qualified President. And by the way, I don’t buy this crap “Ohhhhh boy. When he gets in the general they’re really going to chew him up and spit him out.” That’s happy horseshit IMO. But they will come out in exponentially off the wall numbers to vote against the Clintons.

No I’m not “purposely choosing a confrontational tactic”–I want my candidate to win and I am stressing his positives that way overshadow hers. It’s not “confrontational” to try to point out her shortcomings and his pluses.

I have never bought the trite phrases that are as much buzzwords from her campaign as the horseshit that has been coming to Republicans from Rove and now Gillespie in emails are.

Experience–I have no idea why people say she has more. I’m not being confrontational because I’m not saying–”gee too fine acomplished candidates–I’m really having a tough time here–I’m just agonizing over who to endorse.” And that’s because I”m not having a bit of trouble over who to endorse. I knew she was running for years when she put on that “Aw shucks act” on talk shows. There was never a doubt for a second. And during those years I knew I wanted someone to oppose her that had a chance. And someone has opposed her that no one gave a chance and right now–he’s closing in on the nomination. That’s a good thing.

Also, as to superdelegates trying to figure out who can beat McBush–not because he’s a dynamic strong candidate but because Republicans will go out of their way to come out of the wood work to defeat her–it’s essential that Obama opposes McCain.

Prospective pardons will be a new tool in the preznit’s 1/20/2009 toolkit. Watch.

Nixon got one, and they’re all the rage again….

Hiya, pups. Home from work. It’s 60 degress warmer here than a week ago. I’m sure that doesn’t make the Polar bears happy, though.

I want my candidate to win and I am stressing his positives that way overshadow hers.

Those would be?
Seems mostly that your arguments are that his positives are that he’s not her. Seriously. What are they?

my emphasis

pete, i have not read any positives from you about obama that deal with specifics tonight.

it seems that i read some anti hillary hate mail from an r relative (they send me tons of it) and then i read almost those same points from you. yesterday, it was hillary’s health care. today, you are here bashing her position and history on health care.

i’m neutral – just like FDL is. i have not selected a candidate to support yet. however, your comments seems to first say what you are not doing – and then you exactly what you say you are not doing.

you say you are objective. i do not think you are at all – you seem to enjoy your hatred of her and enjoy talking about what a terrible person she is. i personally think that is a waste of your passion for obama and that passion would be better used in his campaign – instead of trashing his opponent on a national political blog.

Suz, that is one amazing video! Love that song.

I must be in a bitchy mood, cause I’m tired of reading Pete’s rants. Pete, you can make assertions over and over again, even long-winded ones, but it’s not gonna make me feel better about Obama. His solution to everything seemed to be to form a bipartisan commission. And that’’s just an invitation to Republicans to trample Democrats.

I’m actually undecided. But your posts make me feel less good about Obama.

thanks tow. 2 forking years to plan that. i figured it was good as either a love song or a love sucks song – depending on how one’s valentines day went.

Barry Bonds’ DOJ lead investigator was there at the hearing sitting the next row behind Clemens breathing heavily down his neck.

The winds blowing from Maryland’s Fourth District reached all the way to Capitol Hill today.

May they continue to screech in the ears of faithless incumbents and spineless Democrats.

GO DONNA EDWARDS

If I may butt-in, as someone who is most definitely NOT a Clinton supporter, Pete’s hate for her is visceral.

I have to agree we are in right-wing chain email territory with his “talking points” regarding Hillary.

What, exactly, are we expecting to find in her “missing” health care plans from the 90’s??? Jimmy Hoffa?

The owners (and I include the Commissioner among them) will do as little to “fix” the game as the public demands. Period.

Thank you for that Smgumby. I needed to laugh.

Hi Teddy – does this mean he’ll escape with no accountibilty for his many crimes emanating from Cheney to the Oval Office?

Maybe it’s me, or maybe it’s too late at night, but this shit makes me laugh:

The CIA’s use of waterboarding was legal and not torture, a Justice Deparment official argued this morning, because it was a “procedure subject to strict limitations and safeguards” that made it substantially different from historical uses of the technique by the Japanese and the Spanish Inquisition.

WTF? Are saying that they gave each torturee a safe word, or quit when they gurgled “uncle”? What limitations are there on drowning somebody and then reviving them? Perhaps, “if you can’t revive them, you’ve fucked up.” Is that it?

You have to laugh at anything that absurd.

zoomed = the speed limit.

right, officer?

perhaps laughter is the safeword for this administration – just like the worst thang a woman can do is start laughing when seeing a man drop trou – can you imagine the press corps busting out laughing at some bullshit like that being told to them.

If only they would.

I agree with you TJ. All this stuff about what a candidate did’nt ever accomplish is one thing but Obama has tried to do a great deal and so has Hillary in their careers. They have both failed to get everything done they tried to do but the fact that they have tried hard, learned from it, and have the drive to continue to work for better things for this country should count for something?

uh, did i ever tell ya the story about when baby girl (she was about 8 or so) and i were driving back from tuscon and i had to ditch an arizona DPS unit that was trying to catch the green flash that zoomed by him?

Obama’s bipartisanship seems to me to be a different anima; from the current Democrats surrender version practised by Holy Joe. it also seems different than the Clinton I and II triangulation that starts as a compromise and ends up as less and is claimed as a liberal victory.

Obama’s “post-partisanship” looks like an attempt to create a mass that overcomes Republican labeling – a chance to go over the heads of the obstructionists under the label of bi-partisanship. It’s what Bill Clinto had the political skills to do, but lacked the will.

You’re hurting his chances with me, dude. I can’t imagine your approach convincing anyone, but I bet those phonebankers are really happy to just get off the phone. *g*

just like the worst thang a woman can do is start laughing when seeing a man drop trou

Awww

Everytime I get it out of my mind someone reminds me…

uhhhh sorry dood?

Suzanne, I love that image. Other that rage, uproarious laughter is the only sane reaction. And it’s probably not all that sane, but it sure feels better.

As a legal investigation, their have been enough holes, misteps and screwups in the Mitchell investigation in which to have a dozen 18 wheeler rodeos.

Mitchell ignored the role of club owners and managers in allowing the steroid culture he alleges was present.

Mitchell’s report was repleat with guess work. It was devoid of much hard evidence.

Statistically, Mitchell’s report was driven by getting a few questionable snitches to try to rat out with crap like 10 year old guaze and syringes saved in beer cans–give me a fucking breeak) as “evidence.” I thought that moment was a real SNL/comedy central parody of an investigation.

Mitchell refused to conduct any face to face interviews or even telephone interviews with anyone. That was ridiculous. He wanted to control the questions he asked and answered via email.

Mitchell doesn’t have subpoena power. DOJ and the FBI do. If there is an investigation to b brought of illegal drug use, then they are the ones equipped to bring it.

The hearings also looked ridiculous. You had the democrats and republicans completely polarized and it was a typical Waxman vs. Davis braul on that Oversight committee full of sound and fury producing next to nothing of signficiance.

There were a number of players who have been legally accused of misuse of anabolic steroids and HCG who Mitchell failed to interview because they told him they wouldn’t talk to him. This was hardly a representative investigation of what is going on reflecting the possible extent of it or lack of extent.

Trainers, managers, GMs, and front office personnel didn’t have to talk to Mitchesll and most of them didn’t.

If steroid use is systemic, the owners have a lot to answer for. The billionaires and millionaires weren’t touched by Mitchell. Selig has a lot to answer for and he wan’t touched either. Could that be the reason the Republicans looked so positively ridiculous in the hearings–big bucks contributors make them jump?

Again where were the owners and the Commissioner in Mitchell’s report in the making since 2006?

7% of players tested steroid positive in 2003. We have no idea if Mitchell got their results.

Mitchell also owned part of the Red Sox and was on the Disney Board and they owned the Anaheim angels.

Patrick, I would like to think that you are right. But I see a lot of Bill Clinton’s naive enthusiasm in Obama. Bill was going to change things too, and he got trampled.

Word is that the owners will be the next to have a seat in front of Rep. Waxman.

rubing hands together gleefully

Maybe so. But if as people claim that this is causing significant harm to children, and their is illegal drug pushing going on, it isn’t Waxman they need to be talking to–it’s the U.S. attorney.

fork – there is a barry white bio on the biography channel. we were just talking about him this week.

I fully expect them to do a little “do-si-do spin your partner” after hosting the Inaugural Breakfast with the newly elected Preznit and First Spousal Unit. W will resign at 11am after pardoning all and sundry; Roberts will swear in Darth Cheney, who will then pardon W. “For any and all crimes known and unknown, now and in perpetuity, in this and any and all universes.” Like Nixon’s pardon, but with more RIAA copyright wording thrown in for good measure.

When Bush and Cheney are seated in the “wrong” seats at the next Preznit’s Inauguration — that’ll be our first clue that anything’s happened.

Can you say “Big Tobacco?”

Pete, I’m realizing part of what is annoying me about your posts is that the rest of us are engaging in a dialog and you are giving lectures.

its not like this doj has a history of doing the right thing for the right reasons. they have a better chance in front of waxman than they do with the boosh perverted doj.

“Helped carry the Ethics Bill”? It hasn’t gone anywhere. I’ve looked around and it’s hard to see anything Obama’s actually done. His subcommittee on European affairs hasn’t held a single meeting.

As for the earlier scoffing about how Clinton couldn’t possibly have known how to win in the futures market, here’s Larry Johnson on his experience with meeting Clinton:

I was not alone at the briefing–there were two other participants who are well-known experts on the Middle East and Iraq. We had not submitted our briefings in advance. We made our respective presentations and had a genuine, in-depth discussion about viable options. She asked us tough questions and could think on her feet without having to look at notes. She focused on what could be done to achieve U.S. interests in Iraq without bleeding our country’s treasury and military.

As we talked about the limits and efficacy of using military assets to go after terrorist targets, the Senator brought up the book, Not a Good Day to Die by Sean Naylor. She did more than bring it up. She described in detail the challenges that special operations military forces actually face on the ground. I was stunned. This is not an easy book to read. It is an excellent work and provides enormous detail on special operations and CIA military activities in Afghanistan during Operation Anaconda. But it is tough sledding for folks not familiar with military terminology. She had it nailed, and it was not a mere pre-planned politician’s trick. She knew what she was talking about.

article here

Johnson is an ex-CIA agent who does foreign policy briefings for various politicians, so he has some basis for comparison. He endorsed Clinton a month or so later.

It’s possible that Hillary was the one person in the Clinton White House who was smarter than Bill.

has anyone seen nahant – he had that doctor’s appt today…

I wish I could believe that, but somehow I think hostility is the more likely reaction there. Something’s clearly gotten their attention, though.

It’s time for me to call it a night. Goodnight, all.

And not responding to our valid questions and concerns. And jokes.

The Mitchell Investigation was very far from anything that could be described as complete. Scratching the surface is more like it.

You’re hurting his chances with me, dude. I can’t imagine your approach convincing anyone, but I but those phonebankers are really happy to just get off the phone. *g*

Teddy I respect you, but the fact I’m hurting Obama’s chances with you (although you are shy about stating exactly what your position is or why it is what it is–who you support and why you support them–who you don’t support and why or your joke about what the phone bankers want has zero impact on me, and zero impact on this election.

Your impression of my reasoning tells us nothing about what you stand for or who you support. I look forward to hearing that.

I’ve stated my reasons. I don’t lurk. And I’m happy to see you plunge beyond the usual one liners you’re fond of and outline your rationale for the candidate of your choice. I look forward to it.

I also remember LHP saying she wanted to vet Obama via Rezko. I have yet to see her do the headline that vets Clinton, and I gave her 12 solid questions to look into.

g’nite cujo – nice to see you dipping into the lake again

Yes, but I think Bill’s eye was always on the main chance. Power was it’s own justification, regardless of what it could accomplish.

There is no equivalent of Ricky Ray Rector or Sistah Souljah in Obama’s resume. Obama’s focus has been on empowerment. The we over the I. Look at his website. it’s all about giving tools to people who support him. It may be naive, but I prefer the promise to the reality of what the Clinton’s stand for and how they operate.

i would listen to Bill Clinton’s speeches, enthralled. and feel dirty afterwards for having been suckered. Hillary has Bill’s instincts without the poetry. I want to try Obama’s poetry and hold his feet to the fir to make him live up to it.

“… except in cases of impeachment.”

pete, are you some sort of expert in something that causes you to believe that you expect us to listen to and believe everything you say? because, to be honest here pete, you make me look at hillary with more sympathetic eyes – and i’m a republican.

Gee, thanks, Teddy. That scenario won’t give me nightmares or anything. Really.

*TOW dives under the covers and doesn’t plan to come out until this mess is over*

And beer advertising in baseball parks? Kids drinking alcohol and driving ect. probably causes way more deaths than steroid abuse ever will.

Marx, Elvis, Jesus, and Barack. They’re all pretty good guys, but God their followers give me the creeps!

bush has killed and maimed how many soldiers? but there are no hearings into his being the cause of death of so many americans.

Thank you – clearly Hillary is considerably smarter than Bill and heaven knows considerably more emotionally intelligent. I worry about the safety of both these remarkable candidates in this perilous political climate not to mention our beleagured republic’s future. :~(

A Republican?!?!

And she seemed like such a nice girl…

i am becoming worried about how his presidential campaign seems to have become somewhat of a personality cult. Just as cujo pointed out on his blog about how much it smacks of EST. I remember those days.

I appreciate your point of view, Patrick. If he laid out a concrete, progressive plan for something, I would probably feel better about hoping for the rest of it.

Everytime I see someone say they support Obama because he inspires them, I get less comfortable. I want to support him because I like what he wants to implement.

I love Santa Cruz…I have several friends, faculty, at UC-Santa Cruz. Beautiful campus…Do you live by the Pacific? Can you see the Pacific from where you live?

Hey now, Suzanne is proof not every Republican is bat shit insane. Most of them are, but not all. :)

a lifelong republican. have i mentioned that ex #2 is a fundy – lately?

I appreciate your point of view, Patrick. If he laid out a concrete, progressive plan for something, I would probably feel better about hoping for the rest of it.

Bingo!
my bold

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

FDL doesn’t endorse, Pete, and neither have I since my candidate dropped out. I backed Edwards before I started front-paging here.

I don’t owe you or anyone else my reasons for supporting any candidate. No one does. A lot of us would rather there was less — MUCH LESS — discussion about who supports whom and why. This isn’t really the place to try to win converts, certainly not with your approach.

But I wish you luck with the phonebankers.

Ahh, my wifes parents caught a case of the “conservatism” also. They are still lovely people, and show very few signs of permanant damage from it…

Oh the humanity…

i’m 627′ above sea level in the mts above santa cruz – town called boulder creek.

yeah – i got relatives that still have the koolaid real bad. is where i get all that hate email forwarded from. i finally had to ask my mom to stop – her hatred of hillary clinton was starting to become a stumbling block to our being able to discuss other things.

g’nite all!

When I did some phonebanking, I was always completely polite and non-argumentative to people I considered nutcases. At the very least, I didn’t want them to accuse the campaign I was working for of anything unbecoming because of my words.

g’nite teddy

Yup:

– http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2…..rsonality/

– http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2…..obama.html

and there is truth to that old adage about catching more flies with honey than vinegar.

i finally had to ask my mom to stop – her hatred of hillary clinton was starting to become a stumbling block to our being able to discuss other things.

The bile will tend to screw things up. There’s only so much hatred that reasonable folks will absorb, and the arguments in support of their chosen candidate are nearly always based on the statement “Well, at least it isn’t that Clinton woman.”
She’s supporting McCain?

Nite, Teddy. Think I’m calling it a night too. Gonna try to go to work tomorrow. Been off 3 days with this crud. Sleep well, pups.

Go to his website. He actually does lay out policies.

As a bit of a wonk myself, I understand the deire for specifics, but there is also a tactical and strategic rationale for leaving some of that ou of your appeal to voters. Every specific gives an opponent something to latch onto. All of those specifics go to the Congress to die. I will take a broad outline, with the organizational skill and the rhetorical skill that Obama has demonstrated over and over, against the perfect policy prescription withou the ability to get it passed.

Add to that Hillary’s affinity for the same operatives and DLC hacks that Bill employed, and I can’t make any other choice.

My dad used to do that to me all the time, it was damned annoying. We almost never ever talked politics.

she completely caught me off guard newton – she said there was no way in hell she would vote for ‘that crazy john mccain’ and, as a DTS, she voted for BO.

she left the r party in protest over bush being selected in 00 instead of mccain. she was a real mccain supporter but said to me tonight that the torture musta messed up his brain and she does not trust him any more than she trusts bush.

Sweet dreams TeddySF – am calling it a late nite as well…looking so forward to upcoming fdl boulder creek meetup early next month. snooze button time. Niters all.

As a bit of a wonk myself, I understand the deire for specifics, but there is also a tactical and strategic rationale for leaving some of that ou of your appeal to voters.

Sorry, Patrick. No Dice.
We are owed the goods from them all.

g’nite tow – hope you continue to improve from that nasty crud

My husband teaches a business writing course that includes a section on how to persuade people. The way to do it is to give a person the style he or she responds to best. Now, you can’t do that one-on-one with everybody in the country. But one plan about something would let me feel that I had something rational to make a decision with.

g’nite npb – thanks for a great afternoon today

nite npb

Hmmm, or thinking about it, standing up with Chris Dodd would have done it too.

ok pups – i’m fried. had the winds blow down power lines last night while i was cleaning for this morning’s open house so i ended up cleaning by candlelight until around 4am and then slept until 8:30. only 4 1/2 hours sleep is starting to make me cranky so i’ll slide out of the lake for the nite.

The best of everything to you, Suzanne.

G’nite Suzanne.

gnite suzanne

*clicking heels, twitching nose and poof*

nite suz
candle-power!

Helped carry the Ethics Bill”? It hasn’t gone anywhere. I’ve looked around and it’s hard to see anything Obama’s actually done. His subcommittee on European affairs hasn’t held a single meeting.

You either didn’t know what happened or left it out.

These votes are just one concrete example of how what Obama says is actually backed up by his record — he isn’t just running against the DC Establishment, he actually voted against DC insider club rules. Hillary Clinton can superficially say she voted for ethics reform. Of course, 96 senators ultimately voted for the ethics reform package, so it wasn’t exactly a stand out vote. The real battle was with the amendments, and the choice is very clear between an open government Democrat, Barack Obama, and a get along go along DC insider, Hillary Clinton.

How Obama defied Reid and got real ethics reform passed

Among those who agreed with Reid that most earmarks should be kept secret as to who sponsored them: Clinton, and even Obama’s senior colleague from Illinois, Dick Durbin. There are even more disappointing names in the roll call which you can find at the link.

Let’s be clear here: this was not just about crossing Reid and playing hero for a day. Obama and the other brave Democrats prevented the leadership from making a huge mistake, which would have given the Republicans endless ammunition. The only reason Democrats have bragging rights on the “most sweeping ethics reform in history” is because a few brave Democrats stood up and made it so. The next day, Reid saw the writing on the wall, and accepted the tougher earmark reform.

Roll Call Senate Ethics Bill to Reform Earmarks

Mrs. CLINTON. Mr. President, yesterday evening I voted to table an amendment that would have prohibited authorized committees and leadership PACs from employing the spouse or immediate family members of any candidate or Federal officeholder connected to the committee. I appreciate the concerns raised by Senator Vitter regarding allegations of abuse in this area, and believe action should be taken when the Senate Rules Committee undertakes comprehensive campaign finance reform later this year. I look forward to working with Chairwoman Feinstein and the rest of my colleagues at that time to deal with the concerns raised by Senator Vitter.
That’s our Scarlet O’Hara from New York — there’s always tomorrow to deal with conflicts of interest. As of this date, she has done nothing on this matter.

pete – can you try again without this type of language:

Among those who agreed with Reid that most earmarks should be kept secret as to who sponsored them: Clinton, and even Obama’s senior colleague from Illinois, Dick Durbin. There are even more disappointing names in the roll call which you can find at the link.

that paragraph, which you bolded, was about hillary clinton and not bo.

wanna try a do over and try to say something about obama without mentioning her at all?

i’ll read pete’s do over in the morning.. g’nite all for realsies

There are multiple ways to communicate. Obama’s speeches are one way – think of all the great speeches in American political speeches – they lay out principles, but not specifics. Obama addresses specifics in policy paers and on his website. Hillary hits the policy prescriptions in her speeches, and i generally agree, but want to die rather than listen to them again.

But more than anything else, i go to her vote on the Iraq use of force authorization. She knew, as anyone with a brain did, that it meant going to war. She voted yes because she wants to be president – not out of principal, or any other way it can be spun, caveats about letting inspectors finish the job. It was a fig leaf for war and everybody knew it. She wanted to be president so bad she le t thousands of people die instead of lettting herself appear to be “weak.”

We know here – we harp on it constantly – that the way to be strong is to stand up for principles, not to go along with warmongers who think that blowing stuff up is the way to look strong. She failed that test.

An interesting update from Glenn Greenwald:

One of the tortures I endured yesterday was watching the House hearing involving Roger Clemens and the trainer who claims to have injected him with steroids. The press could not have been any more riveted and was fully knowledgable of every relevant detail. Almost every House Committee member came to the hearing thoroughly prepared, grilled the witnesses with the expertise of an experienced litigator, and thundered about the grave seriousness — and consequences — of lying to Congress.

The drama was high, the gravity palpable, and the interest level intense. Ponder how much better our country would be if even a fraction of all of that were conjured up for acts of chronic lawbreaking and serial lying by our highest government officials, rather than our baseball stars.

On a not unreleated note, David Broder wrote his latest paean to “bipartisanship” today and made clear what he — and most others — mean by that (h/t Denning):

The voters’ message is getting through, not only in settling the fights for the Republican and Democratic nominations but in changing the mind-set of Washington.

The clearest evidence of the change is what happened last week on the economic stimulus bill. A week ahead of their self-imposed deadline, the House and Senate, by overwhelming votes, sent to President Bush almost exactly the kind of relief measure he had sought for the staggering economy.

In Broderian Beltway World, when Democrats join the Republicans to give the Leader “exactly” what “he has sought,” that is “bipartisanship.” When they refuse to carry out the Leader’s instructions, that’s “partisan bickering.”

pete, are you some sort of expert in something that causes you to believe that you expect us to listen to and believe everything you say? because, to be honest here pete, you make me look at hillary with more sympathetic eyes – and i’m a republican.

I think Suzanne I know a little bit about areas where I’ve worked most of my life. I’ve never used the word expert.

And the purpose of this comment is what exactly?

I expressed my views.

Are you at all capable of expressing your reasons for your choices of candidates based on specific issues. If you said to me “I like Clinton because she’s a woman–I think it’s long overdue and I think she’s exceptional” that’d be something, and I certainly understand that reasoning. But so far, you haven’t given me anything specific as to what you aren’t ahppy about. I’ve focused on my issues on the candidates. I haven’t mentioned Suzanne this or Suzanne that once. I welcome your views on candidates if you have any.

1) I cheerfully invite you to express yours if any on any subject except that *g* you don’t agree with mine, but won’t state why.

2) I cheerfully look forward to a headliner like LHP who kept saying after several lawyers were attracted to come onto FDL and other blogs to criticize the Swift Boating weak aspect of her criticism of Obama to take up my dozen questions on Clinton and vet her.

Suzanne besides repeatedly saying I don’t have your vote, or your voting for Clinton which as far as I can tell is your right and privilege and I encourage you to do, I’d appreciate your saying besides that you are leaning toward Clinton what precisely it is that makes you for her and what precisely it is that makes you lean away from Obama.

If interviewed, are we to understand you’ll tell the interviewers on MSNBC or from the print media–”I wasn’t sure but after that bastard Pete Pierce had the audacity to state his views, I was so pissed off I’m voting for Clinton.”

If that floats your vote Suzanne, fine. I’d still like to see some concrete reasons however that butress your stance. I don’t think the name Pete Pierce has that kind of chemistry.

I spent quite a bit of time outlining my reasons for Obama and against Clinton. I don’t see a lot of reasons to vote for her. I can’t manufacture any to make you happy. I voted for Obama about 7 weeks ago best I can remember. I plan to vote for him again in November.

I cheefully and anxiously await you outlining reasons except you don’t like mine. I outlined many of mine over the last few days. I have a dozen questions that I and hundreds of thousands of other people have said they want Clinton to answer. If you don’t like it, vote early and vote often, but I’d like to see any of your reasons besides that “I don’t like your approach.”

I see a little different spin on that vote, Patrick. I honestly believed that the intelligence community found evidence of WMDs. I had no idea how corrupt the system had become. Hillary had the experience of intelligence reports being true in the past. Naive, yes, I was. Maybe she was too.

I can’t accept that reasoning, although I appreciate the generosity.

The judgement that needed to be made was in regards to what Bush would do with the authorization. Did anyone really believe that Bush would take Hans Blix at his word? Absence of evidence for Bush was evidence of “evil-doing”.

The acquiescense of Democrats, particularly of those with Potomac Fever was as craven a political moment as ant I have seen in my (almost) 47 years.

Of course not. I am underscoring the fact that she refused to vote on an earmarks amendment. I believe it was cowardly. I was asked a week ago by “newtonuser” to compare and contrast. I’m doing that. If I wanted you to write for me or put words in my mouth I’d ask.

Clinton voted to table the earmarks amendment that Obama worked hard on. That’s a contrast. We’re in an election here, and I’m being specific as to why I favor Obama.

Clinton did not vote two days ago on the FISA amendments. She was miles from the Senate and she chose not toshow up. Obama showed up and voted most of the morning and afternoon, even though 4 crucial states were in play that day.

Clinton has refused to release her taxes. Obama has released his.

Clinton has refused to release hundreds of millions of library contributions, of which $31.5 million came directly from a mineral rights deal her husband participated in–that was first denied by the contributor.

I have been asked to compare and contrast and that’s precisely what I’m doing. What would make you happy is if I said nothing I suppose.

You would rather have a statement “Me and the sweet little wife are very much for so and so.”

That kind of statement would make you happy maybe.

I choose to be specific, and I promised newtoneuser I would compare anc contrast and that’s what I’ve done.

Somoene said Obama hadn’t done much of anything on ethics, and I responded in specifics. He did a helluva lot, and I compared and contrasted. I’m happy to have done so.

I’m pretty capable of writing my own comments, and I invite you to make your own case.

Pete, I think the primary criticism has been that your support for Obama seems to consist mainly of your vehemant dislike for Hillary.

I read your 240 and followed the links, and Suzanne really was on target with her reply.

It would have been quite simple, and succinct, to state that Obama voted the right way on Ethics reform. You could have outlined Harry Reids ass-hattery, and listed Obama as one of the Senators who helped Demints amendment along.

Staying true to form, you spent as much time bashing Clinton as you did praising Obama. You could have left Hillary out of it all together and made your point just as effectively.

And there were two sets of lies involved:
— the need for the mission (i.e., WMD programs and some other bullshit)
— the scope of the mission (i.e., no nation building and the Powell doctrine).
I can forgive Hillary for initially getting taken in on both, but I can’t understand how either of them can vote to continue funding this enormously expanded mission.

Also Glenn used to be a federal prosecutor; he sees the theatrics and deficits in the Mitchell report that he knows would not be in a prosecution of his back in his days at DOJ.

i need to go to bed.

I want to make clear that I am not a Hillary hater. I thin she mad political calculations that all politicians make. I think those calculations were wrong. That said, if she is the Democratic nominee, I will work like crazy to get her elected. I’d ust prefer to work for Obama.

Sleep well, Firepups.

Hi there…We haven’t been on the same thread at the same time for a while…usually on morning weekday Christy posts…

Struck me the same way…like a hammer pounding…ver, very, very slanted in an insidiuos and viscious way. I skip it all now. Did not want to say it.

True, wigwam.

Patrick, if you start from the point that you believe there was proof there are WMDs, and there was a legitimate pressing reason action couldn’t wait, it made sense. I had no idea the lengths GWB would go to push his agenda regardless of facts.

I remember saying at the time, “I don’t see why we can’t wait longer, but I don’t have the clearances to know.” In hindsight, I should have started doubting every word a lot sooner.

I appreciate your thoughts, Patrick. Thank you.

1,757 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Suzanne:

Bless yer heart, don’t feed the self servin’ baffoons who like only ta hear the sound a their own voices. I don’t like and won’t vote for Mrs. Clinton for what I think are very good reasons…most importantly, she’s the prototype for the DLC “New Democrat” which is nuthin’ but the old Republican of the 1950’s…but that said, the discussion of her candidacy as a dialogue among progressives is the healthiest thing to happen to democracy and the Democratic Party in 40 years. Don’t let any of the self-centered gasbags of the bloggosphere getcha down…jest don’t respond to ‘em, they really don’t care what you think.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY!!

and i’m a republican.

You are…for real? If yes, then what are doing at FDL? (Or is it snark? My radar for that is off today..*g*.)

She is, Biodun. But my thought is that is a registered republican, not a spiritual one.

I knew I wasn’t the only one to get the shivers when I read that!

De nada, TJ. I may be more cynical than most, which makes my embrace of that damn hope-monger Obama a bit paradoxical. But, I want to extend the range of the possible.

If he lets me down, I am so gonna kick his ass.

OT (yeah, I know):
When you’ve given up hope of ever again taking a diaphrammatic breath, surf on over to the website of the

Predatory Lending Association
The Predatory Lending Association (PLA) is dedicated to extracting maximum profit from the working poor by increasing payday loan fees and debt traps. The working poor are an exciting, fast growing demographic that includes: military personnel, minorities, and most of the middle class.

Site features include the Military Loan Finder, Working Poor Finder, a set of Racial Profiling Tools, and the PLA’s blog, Cash Claw (which appears to me to have been overtaken by events, alas).

And remember, you were warned.

1,757 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Biodun:

Yes she is…but she’s NOT a fascist true believer, she’s redeemable and she represents a democraphic that is important to keep thinkin’ and talkin’ now that they are prepared ta vote for a “Democrat”…we jest need ta get ‘em ta move the next step.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE POPCORN, I THINK THE RATS ARE ABOUT TA START FIGHTIN’ OVER THE LIFEJACKETS!!

Pete, I think the primary criticism has been that your support for Obama seems to consist mainly of your vehemant dislike for Hillary.

I read your 240 and followed the links, and Suzanne really was on target with her reply.

It would have been quite simple, and succinct, to state that Obama voted the right way on Ethics reform. You could have outlined Harry Reids ass-hattery, and listed Obama as one of the Senators who helped Demints amendment along.

Wait a minute.

Clintonvoted to table. She came to the floor and made a statement. I quoted it. I didn’t express “vehement dislike for her” at any time.

I don’t know her well at all. She doesn’t come accross on TV as very warm or likable to me at all, but I don’t “dislike her vehemently” and haven’t expressed it.

I disagree with her position on (and it has nothing to do with like or dislke–I have to choose who to vote for–and I’m choosing who is the most honest and capable in my humble opinion *g to the64th* and no where have I laced it with the word expert.

I disagree with

her taxes–she refuses to release them; Obama did
the library contributors–she refuses to release them and disingenously blames her husband who is actively campainging for her–many say helping and many say hurting–Mark Penn and Mandy Gruenwald say he is enormously popular in her 3 crucial states so they want him out there

her ethics position–I heard Tweety Mathews ask the question what Obama did in the Senate. I’m pointing out one of the things he did bravely and she took an opposite view from the one I would have hoped.

Iraq War

Keil Leiberman

Voting against the Levin amendment and Karl Levin an attorney and long time experienced Senator came out three weeks ago and said she had misinterpreted his amendment and misread it profoundly. She is not a babe in the woods. She had the benefit of a high priced constitutional law class and contracts class at Yale University law school–and she has many close friends at some of the premier law firms in this country like Williams and Connelly LLP.

Gregg Craig who was one of her closest friends througout her life, from the days when he rented an apartment to Hillary and Bill Clinton, and was a fellow law student at Yale, and who ran the defense team for Clinton’s impeachment, along with a brilliant appellate lawyer who often litigates in the Supreme Court successfully, no one has mentioned here, named Paul Mogin at WC and several other terrific lawyers, now supports Barack Obama and is critical of her. Do you really think that Greg Craig whose long freindship with the Clintons, who knows them very well, whose daughter attended all the way through school with Chelsea when they were in the White House any more vehemently dislikes Hillary and Bill Clinton any more than I do?

For both Greg Craig and me, it’s not about being social friends. It’s about who does the best job for this country in our opinion.

I’m simply being honest and straight forward. I don’t dislike Mrs. Clinton. I only know her through her actions and attempts at solutions as she said today and that’s what I’m using to make my call.

We have two candidates here. We have Rachell Maddow and anyone else who seems to be revered here at FDL doing precisely what I’[m doing.

We have two candidates who are runinng on their record and experience who are going to sharpen their criticism starting this week on the opponent’s record and experience.

We have media who will do the same thing, some more presciently and with more quality than others.

In the Senate (Obama for 4 years, Clinton for7) it is perfectly constructive and appropriate for me to take votes they both cast, and to say why I favored one’s vote over the others. On a number of votes, they voted the same way.

I can’t vote for both of them. I had to make a choice and I’m saying why I chose to vote for one of them. I’m being specific; I’m focused on issues; and there is nothing in the world negative about that.

I’ll go one more. Clinton wants to represent the votes of Michigan and Florida by grabbing all the delegates in what clearly was not a normal election in either state. This would screw Obama. We aren’t going to let it happen. He’s not and the voters aren’t.

I disagree with that. I know other smart people do as well. One of them is named Marcy Wheeler, who happens to live in Michigan, and if you hit the tab that says EW you can see that she hasn’t been and won’t be shy about advancing her view point.

It wasn’t so all that absurd at the time for a non-expert to buy the administraiton’s story:
— In 1994, Cheney had said how absurd it would have to invade and occupy Iraq.
— In 1998, Bush’s father said what a disaster it would have been to invade and occupy Iraq.
— In 1990, the State Department and CIA did analyses showing that toppling Saddam would be a disaster for the U.S. and Israel, since Saddam was the bulwark against the Iranians.
— Several respected NYT reporters (including Judy Miller) had written a very convincing book about Saddam’s biological warfare program.
— Powell had announced a doctrine the involved the need for a clear mission and a genuine threat to the U.S. before any commitment of the U.S. military.
— Rove was considered to be a very smart political operative who wanted to establish a permanent GOP majority. If there weren’t weapons, Bush would surely be a one-term president.

The list goes on. There were a lot of reasons to think that these guys, evil though they be, were smart enough to make sure there really were weapons there and to get the hell out as soon as they took care of those weapons.

That said, I can see no sane reason for someone who fell for Bush’s line of shit not to admit that with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it was a horific mistake.

Something needs to be made clear to some people here. Those of us who criticize Clinton, and praise Obama, don’t intensely dislike Clinton.

We are being asked to entrust a lot of critical decisions to someone for a very long time. As we have seen Bush haas done tremendous damage in the way he and his picks have conducted themselves. There is a lot of damage to undo and there are a huge number of challenges to face.

I care enough about the people of this country to make my best choice. I encourage others to do the same. My choices aren’t based on what Teddy from San Fran or Suzanne who are lovely bright people will think of me or say about me. I’m not running for political office. I’m picking someone. I’m also not a shill or a talking head or a spinner like so many people who get the mute button from me when they show up on MSNBC because I’ve heard what they are going to say once and they are all singing the same Mark Penn and Mandy Gruenwald choriographed gospel that I don’t buy.

Clintons don’t admit mistakes–period. He doesn’t and she doesn’t and they won’t.

Well said.

Everyone have a nice evening or morning depending on the time zone.

Bless yer heart, don’t feed the self servin’ baffoons who like only ta hear the sound a their own voices. I don’t like and won’t vote for Mrs. Clinton for what I think are very good reasons…most importantly, she’s the prototype for the DLC “New Democrat” which is nuthin’ but the old Republican of the 1950’s…but that said, the discussion of her candidacy as a dialogue among progressives is the healthiest thing to happen to democracy and the Democratic Party in 40 years. Don’t let any of the self-centered gasbags of the bloggosphere getcha down…jest don’t respond to ‘em, they really don’t care what you think.

In other words, if things don’t come from you they are suspect?

Staying true to form, you spent as much time bashing Clinton as you did praising Obama. You could have left Hillary out of it all together and made your point just as effectively.

Sorry but I couldn’t make my points without comparing and contrasting any more than you’re going to see both candidates and their well educated spouses doing by bringing the other one into their compare and contrast from now until June.

You’ll also see them doing this with their carefully placed ad money. Clinton is considered to already have run the first negative ad, and it caused a shouting match between two very old very close friends and people who are leading her campaign, Mandy Gruenwald, a key figure in the Clinton administration, and Mark Penn.

Something needs to be made clear to some people here.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.
You are hurting your candidate.

Those of us critical of Clinton are not “haters” and it’s ridiculously unfair to say so. I’m comparing and contrasting–you asked for it and I’m doing it.

I anxiously await your compare and contrast.

Hearing someone thinks her mom hates Hillary doesn’t tellme anything about her views of the candidates. What I’m seeing woefully too much is that instead of giving reasons why they support someone, people want to give reasons why you shouldn’t criticize someone you don’t support to butress the reasons why you support the other candidate.

That’s pretty circular reasoning.

You did ask for compare and contrast did you not the other day? And I have been only to happy to try to do that.

This has nothing to do with hate. I have never met Clinton; I did see her daughter but I don’t know her personally. I’m making calls on “actions and solutions” as President Clinton requested today, and how they will extrapolate to the West Wing.

That’s your opinion. But he doesn’t believe that. His wife is doing what I’m doing. I think Bill Clinton is “hurting his wife.” And I think you’re hurting your candidate if Clinton is hers by refusing to say why you support her.

If all you have is that I’m huring Obama, I think you’d better pay attention to his exponential mathematical gains in Ohio, Texas, and Pennsylvania already this week.

If I’m hurting him, you think a symptom of that is that she’ll be lucky to take in $11 million this month, and he’ll take in over $60 million during Jan and Feb? He’s creaming her in money in and he’s gaining hevily in the three big states that are her “last firewall.”

Don’t blame me. Rather do you plan on continuing to blame me or tell us who you support and who you don’t and why? Copmpare and Contrast. I’m not running for President of FDL. I’m stating my reasons. And a lot of this depends on who says it to you. Rachel Maddow says many of the same things. No Problemo. Pete Peirce–oooohhhh he’s hurting his candidate who is taking in record amounts of money and gaining substantially in the big three states.

Newtonusers–it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

I hope in the coming days some of you who don’t want anything said about Clinton except praise I don’t think she deserves will make your case. But most of all, I hope you enjoy your time however you spend it and get what you want out of the issues and what you read.

Slowly but surely Supersuper delegates who were civil rights leaders are pealing away from Clinton. She was sure she had John Lewis and so were some of his friends. But…

Black Leader, a Clinton Ally, Tilts to Obama

PETE – On THIS VERY THREAD you have told us your feelings about Hillary VERY clearly.

“She’s disingenuous, hypocritical and phony.”

“I have never trusted her.”

“I believe this is a cold, cruel woman whenever she wants to be. I think her daughter is very muchy the same way”

(a spoiled brat you said)

Now where would any of us get the idea that you don’t like her?

Now before you get started, let me say, I prefer OBAMA over Clinton.

But I do not think you help Obama’s cause by channeling Karl Rove.

Dude, it’s no use. Some of the Obama supporters are consumed with Senator Clinton, and there is no reasoning with them, no matter how sweetly you approach.

Machiavellian is correct:
Drown the place in words.
Deny, deny, deny.
Do not ever state an attribute of your candidate without placing it in context wrt the opponent.
Malign your candidate’s opponents children (’cause they’re fair game, don’t you know).
Suggest that there are secret and sinister Justice Department conspiracies (without any proof, but plenty of innuendo), aligned to destroy your candidate.
Denigrate the anatomy of your candidate’s opponent.
And the masterstroke – claim that any and all opposition to this particular approach is bogus and unworthy of commenting on (then proceed to pour thousands more words on top).

Like I said, channeling Karl Rove.

Obama, and Clinton, deserve better.

Obama, and Clinton, deserve better.

Agreed.
nite all

Do not ever state an attributeyour candidate without placing it in context with the opponent.

Maybe there are two newtonusers. One of them 3 nights ago, made a request for me to begin comparing and contrasting the two Democratic candidates for President. I immediately replied I would do that.

By definition, on its face, in order to compare and contrast, you need to examine the two things you’re comparing and contrasting. It’s that simple. And it’s is deliciously ironic, that after I complied with your request, you’re now invoking Machiavelli.

Tell me–how is it you would prefer that I advocate for my candidate? Have you ever debated? Have you ever cross examined the other side?

As to the comment that I’m chanelling Karl Rove–really someone has to be kidding. I’m doing what everyone who is examining this campaign is doing. I’m also doing exactly what John Lewis has done who opted to support Obama. I don’t konw what has precipitted confusion here. Not supporting Clinton does not constitute dislike or hate personally. She is disingenuous and systemically so. Her ridiculous dance around her Iraq vote is pathetic, and it’s huring her every day.

When you all get past invoking Karl Rove, who will by the way be a very big participant in the general election, with a lot of financial backing for his work (I believe more so if Hillary were in the GE, I’d like to hear who you advocate and why. That was why again.

Someone I know well in my state who is a very prominent Republican decision maker, wrote me that he prays Obama is not the candidate and so do most of the people who run the Republican party here and in other states. Why do you think that is? Machiavelli? Rove? I don’t think so.

Well now–they have you. I’ve done my best with my limited education and limited vocabulary. I’ll continue to watch current events as best Ican.

But besides all these homilies and invocations of Machiavelli and noble aspersions as to what this country deserves as a voter–do you actually have an opinion that you can support and show it to us?

Citizens newtonusr and Smgumgy:

The political conversation stimulated by the contrasting of Obama and Mrs. Clinton is the healthiest political dialogue this country has had in 40 years…even though I do not support Mrs. Clinton and will never vote for her, her candidacy is necessary for the future of the Democratic Party. When she loses she will take with her the corporatization of the Democratic Party that had been germinating since 1946 and blossomed in the 1990’s. Beating her with a Black candidate who will be forced to the progressive side by her own conservatism is a bellweather for the future.

KEEP THE FAITH FOLKS AND DON’T WASTE TIME ON GASBAGS!!

Norske

My big fear is that Obama is in the same corporate pocket as Clinton, but wrapped in feel-good platitudes.

I pray he proves me wrong, and if I get the chance to vote for him in November, I will be happy to give him the chance.

My big fear is that Obama is in the same corporate pocket as Clinton, but wrapped in feel-good platitudes.

Given that Obama has refused to take contributions from any lobbying organizations, what’s the evidence for this?

And to me “solutions and getting things done” without saying what it is Clinton got done are the quintissential nebulous platitudes that define nothing.

I believe Clinton should show she has the insight and judgement to recognize a huge mistake–her authorization and continued support of the fiasco in Iraq that is increasing Dover coffins and trillions of dollars of national debt with no end in sight. She then voted for Kyle Leiberman and against the Levin amendment. Levin says her interpretations shows a lack of understanding of how to read his amendment.

She should acknowledge these mistakes.

She should put some sun shine on her hidden income taxes and her hidden library contributions to the library with her name on it.

I’d like to know where she got $5 million dollars to loan to her campaign? It would be hammered in the general election?

I’d like to know how in the world she thinks she’s going to leave Michigan and Florida as they are now, and get them to count, when hundreds of thousands of Obama voters didn’t bother to waste their time in an election that did not count?

If someone told me my state wasn’t counting, I wouldn’t be there to vote in a meaningless election. Either there is going to be a fair chance for candidates to campaign in Michigan and Florida and someone is going to cover the cost of re-voting or they are history.

I understand Clinton is being told due to wide margins, she can’t make them up in Texas, Ohio,and Penn so her campaign is looking to steal phony elections in two states that did not have real ones. Won’t fly–ever. What were they thinking?

lat to this thread but I don’t really understand how this video is possible, there’s a time lag and nobody is going to hear the same music as anyone else

the entire concept has to be off beat so I don’t get it

Radar Love–This Works Fine

Please don’t do it on your keyboard Tuttle, you might not be able to use your computer again!