zedddddddddd!

EPU’ed.
Has Whitehouse explained his vote and his on the one hand/on the other actions on FISA?

Good morning. Constitution indeed.

And now to the important stuff *g*. morning scarecrow.

EPU’d below http://firedoglake.com/2008/02…..nt-1270666

SanderO from the previous thread makes a good point about this:

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02…..nt-1270651

We, as progressives/liberals/Constitutionalists, need to be forming a coalition to strengthen ourselves.

Maybe we could start our own PAC?

We seem to be the only ones in the country who understand the importance of the US Constitution in our daily lives.

Wow, Scarecrow. Glenzilla himself could not have said it better!

Need something,

Thought of supporting Democrats after the performance of the 110th grates on my nerves.

How about starting a

Constitution Caucus

Good cut-to-the-chase thread, ‘Crow.

That we are STILL having to fight this shit, 7 years into the bush mad-hatter party, and 5 years into the bloody debacle in Iraq, is an obscenity.

I bet those asses in the oval were popping corks galore yesterday. Too bad they weren’t better aimed.

I consider blue-dog Democrats to be a greater evil than Republicans. They are certainly harder for progressives to eliminate, and they give all Democrats a bad name.

Primaries are a very good thing. We should do them more often.

What’s the deal with Mikulski?

I lived in Maryland many years ago and remember her in a much better, outspoken light. She’s a social worker dammit! Can’t believe she’s done this.

So does this mean that the only thing they are not vacuuming up is our snail mail? Or is that so yesterday (as in they’ve been doing that all along?)

– As bad as the Senate Bill is, the Senate rejected an effort to make the bill the exclusive means by which surveillance can be authorized. So the President arguably can conduct further spying on Americans even without the minimal protections left in the Bill.

That vote truly shocked me. It’s bad enough that these people are imperialists, but that also want to turn the U.S. into Orwellian police state. It’s apalling.

just think about what they are holding over her head.

Good Morning Scarecrow, have signed the petition.

caw caw!

but those 31 or so votes define the limits of the Constitutional Wing of the Democratic Party.

And therein lies the rub, ‘crow. After 2 and half years at FDL, I finally figured out what FDL focuses on: issues that violate the US Constitution. FDL latches on to these and never lets go until resolved one way or the other…

Agreed, I should just be happy about Donna for now.

The other group that is to blame for this FISA fiasco is the mainstream media. They have almost completely ignored this threat to our constitution, and when they did conver it their reporting was filled with inacuracies, untruths, and lies.

Good morning, firedoglakepersons,etc. Good/bad day, eh.

Even if you accept Atrios’ view that a lot of the Democrats simply agree with the Bushwingers (as opposed to being just intimidated by terror threats), you’d think they could read the polls and read the anger against their continued support of these outrages. I can’t account for this.

Agreed, I should just be happy about Donna for now.

I am! it’s fun to smile and i think her victory bodes well for progressivenicity

Given the fact of the complete failure of Republican ideology and governance, it’s stunning that the pundits are saying this is going to be a very close presidential election. It should be a blow out. Suggests that it will take a generation of educational efforts for Americans to fully comprehend the anti-democratic, anti-constitutional, totallitarian nature of the Republican Party. It begins with getting rid of blue dog Democrats.

I don’t agree that the focus is mostly on Constitutional issues — although it is true that many of the outrages of the Bush Administration are linked to violations of the Constitution. But I don’t see health care, sexism, corruption, media bias and lots of other issues we cover here necessarily linked to Constitutional concerns. The Plame coverage was about outing a spy and covering it up.

Morning everyone, Scarecrow. I agree with this, but not as a party (which would take too long to build, and would fracture the otherwise largely viable party we have. Rather, as I suggested a few… ago, what needs to be done is to create a NEW block of 12 in the Senate and a comparable group in the house of people across both parties (there have to be sizable group of Republicans) who are willing to commit themselves (and vote) on the Constitution. We know how effective the gang of 12 (Collins, Lieberman, Nelson etc) has been in packing the supreme court with anti-constitution people such as Alito. Assuming we can counter some of the 12 in this upcoming election and later ones, a new block could have equal if not greater power.

We Need a Constitutional Party Convention

Yes. Greenwald had a post a couple days back about the total falsehoods in the WSJ editorial (not the front page reporting, which was better). On the other hand, the NYT was pretty good in reporting — they broke the original story of the unwarranted surveillance, and their editorial page was excellent on this issue. The television media did a poor job, except for KO’s use of John Dean and Bruce Fein, and Bill Moyers.

Here you go http://www.constitutionparty.com/

I can’t account for this.

So, what possible forces are causing them to do this:
— They truly believe in turning the U.S. into a police state.
— They are being black mailed via oppo-research, possibly collected by the NSA.
— They need telco campaign contributions to get re-elected.
— They want favorable press coverage.
— They want to be accepted by peers at their contry club, church, or synagog.
Consider DiFi. Almost surely she’ll not run for re-election. She is extremely wealthy and well-established. She comes from the most liberal region in the country. What motivation could she have to support such Orwellian legislation?

Webb is on CSPAN now and they’re taking calls for him…

What I don’t get is why this can’t just be fixed in conference. That is unless the leadership really want it this way. Btw: OT but I’m so psyc’ed about Donna Edwards kicking ass!

I don’t think that’s what JimWhite had in mind

And if you need anything further to raise your gag reflex to a higher level, the toad-in-chief will be on the news shortly to jump up and down with glee. :-(

I think that’s a brilliant idea, obviously Dems in congress don’t
seem to get that people want more openess and inclusiveness in
government..Having a reserved fund on hand that when there is an important issue at hand, we can run some ads.targeting the bad Dems. On the FISA issue most Dems did not respond to phone calls, emails etc…we have to find a new strategy to make them take notice.

I should note that DiFi was complicit in the Intelligence Bill, but after her substitution amendment was defeated, she voted for cloture but then voted against the bill at the end. Totally ineffective.

When you get into “power” you get corrupted unless you are really focused on serving the people and not puffed up with power.

We need term limits.

There are plenty of good people to serve. it woull solve so many problems.

We need term limits.

we have term limits at the ballot box

Pure egotism

On healthcare, sexism, corruption, media bias: these are issues somewhat apart, and I think some of those will be changed with a new administration and a greater number of Democrats in the house. The trick with the former is to find a way to bring the troth of lobbying back to the 1970s-1980s era (a tiny fraction of what it is today). We could have a whole post on differences then and now and how to bring some sanity to this. On sexism, well Sweden (I think) made it a law that each party had to put up women as 50%? of its candidates. Unlikely to happen here, and, as we know not all women are on our side. Interestingly Hillary’s candidacy has already changed things. MSM learned that by clobbering her unfairly, women moved more strongly for her (in NH),in short they voted against MSM. On corruption, see my comments on lobbying (that will also bring down the costs of running, I think. On media bias, Congress and the new president will be able to put in play some changes, and with the presidency, and a very well spoken president that will transform things. What I really fear, and what will destroy FDL and other progressive websites, I fear, is the end of net neutrality, for with that, sites which are deemed to be too anti-establishment will simply be banned.

NO WAY IN HELL! At least we now still have a fourth amendment. Given the two-to-one majority that we saw yesterday passing that awful legislation, I’d expect them to strike the entire bill of rights if there were a Consitutional convention.

No elliot,

We have incumbents.

See how the presidential election is this cycle. No incumbent.

We need a fresh race ever election cycle.

People who lover gov service can move to other jobs.

The Republicans who would otherwise be pro-constitution are scared shitless of 1) Rove/Bush/Limbaugh/Savage/Colter/AIP*C. The Democrats who would otherwise be pro-constition are scared of the same.

With intent.

Cloture was the key vote, and she knew it.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I hope you have it committed to memory

FDL, like other liberal blogs, has been ineffective. T-he question is how do we become effective. We, myself included, tend to believe this, too, shall pass as it certainly shall but there can be lots of pain between now and then. We sign petitions, fax and email, but these protests fall on deaf ears. Scarecrow says we need a constitutional party. Does he (or she?)mean a third or sixth party or merely a return to constitutionality by the Dems? If he means something new, how might we go about it. If he means working within the present party framework to effect change, how long does he intend to try before deciding it won’t work?

I’d add to “Rove/Bush/Limbaugh/Savage/Colter/AIP*C” the entire editorial boards of WaPO, WSJ, and anything owned by Murdoch.

Nancy and Steny dance while the Constitution burns.

http://thehill.com/leading-the…..02-07.html

Ok, so the Constitution is being trampled on again according to this article. What are all of you going to do about it? I see posts on this site from time to time just like this and yet you never see any action with the exception of slurs against Bush and the horrible old Republicans.

You all need to go back and review what our Founding Fathers put on the line for the exact same issue that was mentioned in this blog. As I am sure most of you will not do this, they (the Founding Fathers) put themselves, their fortunes (most were wealthy), their educations, their families, and everything else they held dear on the line to fight exactly this type of thing you all are complaining about.

We need primaries for all of those turncoats.
We need federally funded elections.

I disagree on term limits—the above will do it.

How can we really lobby these congress critters? I mean get past their praetorian guards and explain it to them?

My sense is that they don’t know the issues very well.

Thanks for that clarification…

Yes there are other ways to acheive accountability, public finance is one.

But I now favor new and fresh people in congress.

George Washington knew that and he stepped aside.

Why do we need critters in there for decades?

Gore did his time and now he is doing some useful. And he’s not in gov.

Why not term limits?

Hi…Did you get my response last night?

The president is term limited?

There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a limited term in office. NYC mayor is term limited (thank god).

We need to get rid of entrenched power that becomes established with never ending terms in office.

I think of Ted Kennedy and all he has done. Russ Feingold, Ed Markey (my former critter) and lots of others. Institutional memory isn’t a bad thing. We just need to do a good purging of the toxins periodically. Baby and bathwater . . . .

Per usual, excellent post SC. I have two thoughts this morning. Monday I happened to catch a bit of Rush Limbaugh, he was going off on McCain and conservatism et. al. He actually claimed that Conservatives are the ones who believe in upholding the constitution and specifically the Bill of Rights. I thought to myself, this is typical GOP propaganda. Say one thing, do another. Well Senators, since the Constitution is up for grabs in order to keep us safe, let’s go after the second amendment, huh? Want to see some Conservative heads explode, tell them that under a Democratic president, we will be demanding that Gun companies let us know where all of there weapons have gone and we will be confiscating those weapons in order to protect us from those weapons possibly getting in the hands of terrorists. By the way, we will give the Gun manufacturer’s immunity after the fact.

Second thought, looking at the list of DINO’s – ironically, I believe if Lincoln Chafee were in Whitehouse’s seat, he would have broke ranks with the GOP.

Keep hammering the house – I pray they will not cave. Remember, we have the leverage – if the tools are so important to protect us, then the GOP and Bush would not play games and veto or delay in order to get protection for their cronies.

You are right, but realize they are feeling VERY threatened about their futures because of the web. They used to be able to control everything via print and tv. No longer. Basically they were cow-towing to the Limbaugh/Rove/AIP*C group. I think that will soon end because all three have proven to be bogus (Limbaugh’s candidate Romney lost big time, ROve lost the last election, the pro-ME war thugs are being shouted down every time Obama speaks about the irresponsiblity of this war.

For clarification, the “ineffective” Scarecrow meant we need more adherents to the Constitution in the Democratic Party. I”m not advocating a 3rd party.

As for FDL, there have been successess and disappointments. Lamont/Lieberman — sent a huge message, but was also a huge disappointment. Was it worth doing? You bet.

We’re pushing the notions of what a political blog, or a coalition of blogs, can do, and the jury is still out. Surely we’ve helped create and add to the chorus pushing for important reforms and/or accountability by public officials. We helped mobilize progressives and enabled significant fundraising for progressive candidates. We can focus attention on issues and promote good candidates. No one here has illusions that blogs alone can completely change the discourse or save the country, but that doesn’t mean we’re not had a positive effect.

I think Al Wynn can speak to the current version of ‘term limits” today. I imagine not happily, but he now has the full experience.

Good points.

Chafee had many opportunities to break ranks and he rarely did. Though he is doingtrying to do a mea culpa with the book, he was still mostly a party player.

I did, thanks (and good morning). I sent one back at you, but living in rural Rypw8thwrystan these days it my take a while to crank up the servers to get it through. :-)

Chimpy on MSNBC now…blergh!

And why is it that they are scared Richmond? This is why….most of them are doing exactly what they need to do to stay elected. These “moderates” will follow the direction the wind is blowing at that point in time. If you ever listen to Limbaughs show, he doesn’t change his idealogy, he hasn’t for the last 20 years. It doesn’t matter who is in office, doesn’t matter if you are Bush, Chenny, Pelosi, McCain, etc, if you do something against his idealogy, you are going to get called on it.

These Moderates are destroying the country, they are the political equivalent to lawyers. Ideas is what makes this country strong….not compromise. What ever the best ideas are (be it liberal or conservative) should be fought over, minds changed, and the best raised to the top. This is the exact reason why McCain won’t be getting my vote. I don’t want someone who has gone over to the other side to “compromise”, I want someone who will destroy the other side, then bring them over to our point of view. Thats standing on principal.

Exactly, on all three points.

It was not particularly the old guard that voted with the Republicans. For example, Webb and Whitehouse are relatively new.

And other successes – Donna Edwards

You are right, but look at the energy and the anti-war message of Obama’s young supporters. That wonderful group has to make all the moderates a bit (very) nervous.

Chimpy says he won’t accept any extensions…He said the House should pass the Senate version immediately…

Chimp: “the senators passed a good bill (fisa) and have shown that protecting amurika is a bipartisan issue”

“I will not accept any temporary extenshun” (why dont you want to protect america chimpy?)

“not passing bill will jeopardize the security of murkin citizens… make it harder to uncover terrist plots… must not let this happen. thank u very much.

MSNBC person: “there u have it, the president has drawn a line in the sand”

I love the effect that Marcy Winograd had on Jane Harmon. And Donna’s huge win last night must be sending shock waves back to Jane and lots of the others who won their primaries last go around. Donna lost 2 years ago and came back with a wallop. This could happen to any one of them.

More primaries please.

Yep. Donna Edwards (it helps when you’ve got a terrific candidate). And Howie’s work in finding good people for us to support has been tremendous.

B.S. – not you, shrub.

Bah humbug.

I hope Conyers holds fast to what he’s asking for before doing anything.

Ain’t that the truth…

You’d think Republicans would at least be asking themselves privately whether they really want to hand over this sort of power to the next, presumably Democratic, President.

He really thinks we are stoopid huh? If the tools are so important to protect us, an extension would always be beneficial. Did he take questions? I hope someone in the press nails him on this. Wait, it is MSM, of course not.

Yea, they have done a lot, but others could have done the same with the opportunity.

We need new fresh faces and the good ideas can be passed along.

I now firmly support term limits. The benefits outweigh the risks.

They must have a Plan B that doesn’t involve handing anything over, an October Surprise of some sort.

If we had term limits we’d lose people like Russ Feingold, Patrick Leahy, Harry Waxman…

And for every Ted Kennedy, there is an arlen spector, a jesse helms, a john warner, a john Mccain.

Do the math. The crap gets to stick around and it’s not worth it.

We have people like Donna Edwards and so forth coming up.

2 terms in congress and maybe 1 6 yrs terms in the senate can be 10 years as a congress critter. that plenty long in my book to do plenty of good.

Nope, no questions. It was one of those where he says “blah blah murkin peeple. thanks you.” and storms off.

fyi – i left a comment here and at emptywheel last night. another extension of the PAA is on the agenda for the HOUSE today.

We need to school them instead (in my view). Get more people involved in the process (as we are doing via the web). Elections are hugely expensive (for us as tax payers, and allows even more corporate imprint on the candidates). Note how many of the long term Republicans have now quit. Once the gig is up for them, there is no longer as much interest in staying.

And Chimpy apparently knows about it. He’s hoping his statement of “I won’t sign an extension” will get the Senate to kill the extension so he doesn’t have to veto it.

PAA II: The Emperor Strikes Back

I’m not crazy about any “save us from ourselves,” restraints, but the problem with term limits on congress is that it makes permanent unelected professional staff people the real power and elected congress as figureheads.

Excellent point on the unelected professional staff!

Permanent elected staff people? Who are they?

From todays WSJ editorial:

The defeat of these antiwar amendments means the legislation now moves to the House in a strong position. Speaker Nancy Pelosi is in the Dodd-Obama camp, but 21 Blue Dog Democrats have sent her a letter saying they are happy with the Senate bill. She may try to pass the restrictions that failed in the Senate, and Republicans should tell her to make their day. This is a fight Senator McCain should want to have right up through Election Day, with Democrats having to explain why they want to hamstring the best weapon — real-time surveillance — we have against al Qaeda.”

Nit-pick: Obama stayed up through cloture and only missed the final vote (not “votes”) on passage. I don’t approve of his leaving early, but you make it sound worse than it was. If there’s a story in his leaving early it would seem to be: why did Obama blow a chance to put the not-voting issue more firmly behind him?

I thought each congress critter brings in a new slate of staff.

In the time that I have read FDL, we have gone from crisis to crisis, calling writing petitioning. There has been little time for other action or planning. I am amazed at how much Jane and Christy and all have done.

OT – Guy on MSNBC says Sec Def Gates slipped on ice and broke his shoulder.

The vote yesterday really pissed me off. And then just a few moments ago I saw Bush on TV threatening the House to come up with a bill just like the Senate. Once again he was using the familiar scare the public tactic that unless they pass what the Senate passed that we won’t be able to know what the terrorists are doing. Bullshit! I was so mad that I called my Congressional Rep., John Yarmuth’s office in Washington. I told the woman answering that I wanted Yarmuth to tell Pelosi to stand up to Bush and not cave in on this bill. I also called Mitch McConnells office and told the woman answering his phones that I was deeply disturbed that McConnell voted for the Senate Bill. I told her that he obviously does not support the rule of law because he wants to short circuit the legal process by giving Telecoms immunity. I told her that I would be volunteering to campaign for whoever runs against him and that we are tired of him rubber stamping everything Bush does. I told her I know he doesn’t care about any of this but I wanted to let him know anyways. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

thanks.

I meant unelected.. here.

There is no such thing as permanent unelected staff in congress.

Good morning from L.A. Donna Edward’s win is a bright spot in this otherwise bleak-feeling a.m.
Some mornings just warrant a downhome spiritual. Builds positive thought for the day, at least for me:

Alison Krauss/Gillian Welch-I’ll Fly Away

Ya, I don’t agree with Obama, but it is nice to see how he inspires people. He has a real Reaganesq (or JFK) way of speaking that seems to resonate with young people, and babes across the country. I do hope he beats Hillary so she can officially go into retirement.

He was late for a rally in Madision Wisc.

Wow, more mis-information from the WSJ. I wonder if the stock prices are even correct in that rag. As any intelligent person knows, there is nothing in the legislation that hampers the intelligence communities ability to collect information. Just puts in safeguards and eliminated retro-active immunity.

They are the experts on congressional procedures who serve on the staff of congressmen and particularly help the newer congressmen stay out of snipe hunts. If congressmen time limited, the political parties become groups of permanent expert staff people, assigned to new congressmen/women to “guide” them.

Given the two-to-one majority that we saw yesterday passing that awful legislation, I’d expect them to strike the entire bill of rights if there were a Consitutional convention.

For a truly effective new Constitutional Convention, none of the current congresscritters would be allowed a vote. This would need to be citizens only and entirely grassroots. Polls show a two-to-one majority rejecting telecom immunity and rejecting the occupation of Iraq.

Each Congress person hires their “own” staff but they do it from the pool of staff that have already been working on the Hill for the most part. Hence the “permanent unelected professional staff members.”

This is basically what happened in Sacremento after California imposed legislative term limits.

It’s an example of the Law of Unintended Side Consequences and is real. Unless you intend to say that folks can only work on Capital Hill for x amount of time, regardless of the position which would be even more unworkable than term limits in general.

young people, and babes

whoa

Good morning Scarecrow, from a proud Constitutional Democrat.

Well actually, I would like her to stay in the senate. I think that when she is no longer running for president, she can/will be a much stronger voice – sort of like how Kerry and Kennedy became stronger over time.

This precious little to do with protecting the “murkin’ peeple” and everthing to do with avoiding trials for war crimes.

Although I’m still trying to figure out how an administration official can admit to the use of waterboarding, which is already illegal, and not force an immediate investigation that looks into who authorized it.

Must be a “Jack Bauer- Ticking Time Bomb” exemption in the constitution that we don’t know about.

It should be called the “Cover Our Collective Asses” bill.

Hey, it could be known as COCA!

i think the Constitution we have works, if the legislature would use it properly.

That is totally a bogus power to worry about. Nonsense.

There are no unelected congress staff which would be an entrenched and rising power. End of Story. next argument to term limits???

I’m convinced that Republicans and evangelicals would find a way to stack the convention and write Christianity into the new constitution. I don’t think we can risk such a thing.

Term limits, to put it mildly, are assinine. They have it in Michigan and it’s been a disaster. Institutioinal “memory” has been diminished, bureaucrats now have more power than legislators and many new legislators come to office woefully ignorant of the issues. Term limits were promoted in Michigan by right wing elements as another means of weakening the Democrats. The ultimate term limits should occur at the ballot box by the will of the people.

and the courts and the administration

Dak,

There are many elective offices in the federal, state and local governments which are term limited.

There is no inherent reasons not to do it for congress. END OF STORY.

It is perfectly workable, lawful and has benefits along with some downsides. I think the benefits outweigh the risks.

I know I am WAY behind the times on some things, but 2 nights ago I saw for the first time the video, Obama girl. For those who haven’t seen it this is it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU The number of people who have seen it is huge – millions, and probably did as much to get kids on board early as anything. (there are other ones by her/them too – just do a google search for video, then type in Obama girl.

MI elected incompetent officials who didn’t know what to do.

LOL. Oh, I’m kind of new to this political stuff. Thanks for keeping me straight!

When you phone or e-mail your congressional representatives, pups, about FISA, point out what happened to Al Wynn. Remind them that there are a great many people out here that still care about the constitution, and will actually act in order to protect it.

I be down wit OG.

Raven – had you seen it before? We were in stitches in this house!

I’ve already called my Representacritter and Pelosi’s office and given them the rundown in response to Chimpy’s statement this morning.

You do know that Obama Girl, like, forgot to vote?

And then, there is “Dancing with Obama” by Obama girl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&NR=1

Sorry for trashing your post, Scarecrow, with some fun.

By the time elected representatives have a deep grasp of the issues they are then forced to leave. Term limits are merely a right wing ploy to weaken the Democratic Party in Michigan. Why do you think the Republicans pushed for Presidential term limits? They didn’t want to see another Roosevelt winning election after election.

Are you serious? Gotta be a joke, or, well “what eva!” too busy smoozing her way to Holeywould. !

As to term limits, I’m far more interested in federal campaign financing.

If we don’t take corporate money out of elections, nothing will ever change.

This is the only way the Defense budget will ever shrink. As long as lobbyists can spent $250,000 dollars to get a 50 million contract, we can fax, call, & write all we want (and I do anyway) and nothing will ever change.

Nothing.

And I am convinced from empirical evidence that the risks far outweigh the benefits. Term limits have been problematic for the reasons listed by bluetoe2, myself and others in the states where they’ve been imposed. Trashing the voters of states by saying “they elected incompetent officials” is an attempt to side-step the reality. Your cure is worse than the disease and leaves the permanent bureaucracy with the power as the bureaucracy knows it can just wait out any changes by the new folks.

You disagree, I know.

Although I’m still trying to figure out how an administration official can admit to the use of waterboarding, which is already illegal, and not force an immediate investigation that looks into who authorized it.

Last week, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said that Bush authorized those waterboardings and would consider doing so in the future depending of circumstances. In other words, our Commander-in-Chief is a self-confessed practicing war criminal. Further, under the Yamashita Standard of the Doctrine of Command Responsibility, those in a positions of authority must act to prevent war crimes within their spheres of responsibility. Yamashita was executed for not doing so.

Specifically, Nancy Pelosi is preventing the House from taking action to stop Bush from committing further war crimes, which makes her just as guilty as Yamashita.

On Tuesday night, City Room ran into Ms. Ettinger at an election-watching party in Greenwich Village and asked how things went at the polls.

“I didn’t get a chance to vote today because I’m not registered to vote in New York,” she said.

So where is Obama Girl registered to vote?

“New Jersey.”

Um, but didn’t New Jersey also hold a primary?

True. The problem, she explained, was that she was sick in New York City and was unable to get back across the Hudson River to the polls in Jersey City.

“I was in Arizona for the Super Bowl — every time I get in the airplane I get sick,” said Ms. Ettinger, who did manage to make it to the Svedka Fembot election returns party at Chinatown Brasserie at Lafayette and Great Jones streets. (The Fembot campaign for the White House, the Svedka marketing manager assured us, is not a commentary in any way on Hillary Rodham Clinton, who defeated Mr. Obama in both New York and New Jersey.)

LOL. And we all know how FAR NJ is from NY and how hard it is to find the tunnel or the GW bridge. Plus it was cold that day, and well, she didn’t want to take off her Bama shorts and stilt heels.

Thank you.

My point exactly.

I mean we’re talking gd war crimes, not a “3rd rate burglary”, and the best our “leadership” in congress can do is try to stifle a yawn!

i think the Constitution we have works, if the legislature would use it properly.

The thing that we desperately need is a supreme court that rules stupid legislation (like yesterday’s bill) unconstitutional.

The other bright spot in this a.m.’s news, for those who might care:

Video/Article- WGA Ends Strike

Maybe we can get an intern to give him a blow job, so we can impeach him.

Yea, and when everybody gets to jumping up and down about the “youth vote” I remain the grumpy skeptic that I am. I’ll believe it when I see it.

I just called Pelosi and left a message to stand up to Bush on this one. I also forwarded her number and Yarmuth’s number to friends. We need to flood their offices with calls to let them know we are dead serious about them standing up for the Constitution. We can’t let them think that their vote won’t be noticed. They need to know that we are paying attention.

Why do I feel there’s a handbasket around here somewhere?

And it’s getting warmer by the minute.

Public finance is the first step for cleaning up the election process.

Term limits does not mean a single term. I am troubled by electing someone to office who doesn’t understand the issues or how things work for several years. We need dedicated legislators who hit the ground running.

I don’t want legislators running for office. I want them doing what they are paid to do – legislate.

Jeff Gannon!

Yuk

They have shown up so far en masse (and with contributions!). And, well, then you have the 80 year old female pair on the news last night. One won’t vote for Hillary because she is not convinced the country is read for a women to be president yet. The other won’t vote for Barack because in her view the country isn’t ready yet for an African American. But the clincher? The first woman then goes to the TV reporter and apologizes for her friend being biased. “-)

If Obi can inspire lots of dems to take to the polls, it would be a good thing for the coat tails and maybe sweep in a better congress.

Once a D pres is elected it remains to be seen if they will steer a new course for the nation. The signs so far are mostly slogans. Let’s see who the cabinet is.

It wouldn’t the first time I was wrong.

The thing that we desperately need is a supreme court that rules stupid legislation (like yesterday’s bill) unconstitutional.

yeah, I meant to include the 3 branches of government.

I don’t think public finance will fly. But, we could require TV, radio and print to give a certain am’t of time, space etc to the campaign. And we could make it illegal for companies and pacs to contribute to political campaigns.

well, me neither!

I am troubled by electing someone to office who doesn’t understand the issues or how things work for several years

Apples and Oranges. Knowing how to navigate the bureaucracy is not the same thing as knowing Issues. Part of the reality of elected officials and especially legislators is performing constituent services. That includes helping folks work through the bureaucracy at all levels. These people don’t just sit up on high and make proclamations and mandates. It’s also getting down into the weeds and helping folks out.

In the end it’s down to We the People. which is the point These are our rights and it is up to us to keep them.

Yep, I’m with you on this one. I’ve been trying to identify the best route to a Constitutional challenge to this atrocity if it becomes law.

On the other fronts, my Constitutional Convention would do away with the Electoral College, ban all corporate money in politics and have a lifetime ban on lobbying by former elected officials (in fact, I would prefer to ban the profession of lobbying altogether).

Limiting people to one term would result in chaos. You’d lose all organizational and procedural knowledge every 2 year (in the house).

Thank you Scarecrow!

Cheney’s secretive, corporate-controlled government took one giant leap forward yesterday, thanks to a bunch of cowards.

My problem: I don’t want to live in Dick Cheney’s America.

I want to live in the America the founders gave us.

I want my country back, you bastards!

One thing I wish we had is a replacement for the Pledge of Allegiance. Instead of focusing on the flag, I wish we could focus on upholding the Constitution. Something like:

I pledge to honor and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America, and to respect the Protections and Freedoms it affords to all, with gratitude for the Blessings of Liberty bequeathed to us by its Authors.

I’d much rather have my kid saying this every morning than that other thing.

Well, if the rising tide scenario is applicable….Sen. Obama helped to bring Donna Edwards little boat right off the shore and into the deep blue sea.

-G

2 terms then

She’s brain damaged due to silicone leakage.

-G

Signing a Petition will help?

Haven’t we been down this road before, with only occasional success, and only then when ALL THE STOPS WERE PULLED OUT.

This is about money, plain and simple, as are most of what the politicians vote for. To be sure, there are principled Democratics, but not enough to carry the day, in fact not even close.

Somehow we have to hit them in the pocketbook. We have to take the progressive movement, and employ it in a financial means that has a direct effect on our democratic politicians. Regional races and funding them is certainly one approach, and a good one. But we are dividing out funds when we do that, in that each of us support those in our own district for the most part.

This movement has to be much larger (hence large participation as a group), and to say in no uncertain terms that the politicians financial support will no longer be there, unless they back us. And that “threat” needs to have action and clout behind it.

Food for thought. Bb

Ok, so the Constitution is being trampled on again according to this article. What are all of you going to do about it? I see posts on this site from time to time just like this and yet you never see any action with the exception of slurs against Bush and the horrible old Republicans.

Kurt,
What are all of us going to do about it? Well, apparently you haven’t been paying attention to anything beyond the “slurs” you describe. FDL and plenty of others have joined forces to petition, call, write letters, etc. against FISA as well as support progressive candidates. As another poster pointed out, we have been working very hard within the Founding Fathers system to overturn this without success. It is a discouraging time right now. Let people vent and do your homework before criticizing.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

—-

By oath, that means a persons office can grant them this power (assuming they have take the oath of that office, and I suppose you could argue that they would need to up-hold that oath to keep the power but everyone knows that is a laugh).

So therefore no paperwork required. Depending on the rest of the text possibly granted to people at a state level as well, certinly to co-president.

Anyway they got immunity anyway so that means then, now, and in the future they can hand over anything and you go to jail (never them).

You’d think Republicans would at least be asking themselves privately whether they really want to hand over this sort of power to the next, presumably Democratic, President

Hmmm, add this to the list of reasons why Dems voted against the FISA reform: they want to spy on Republicans when in power and screw them to the wall! I only wish…

Elections are term limits, the only one specified in the constitution.
Full stop.

Permanent elected staff people? Who are they?

Terry McAuliffe, for one. He’s no longer a congressional staffer but he was for a long time. And think if Tweety decided to say on as a staffer for a committee or another rep after Tip O’Neill resigned (died?). There are all sorts of bottom feeders out there.

Tip O’Neill retired in ‘86 and was replaced by Joe Kennedy (Bobby’s son). There was an interesting book about the congressional race to replace Tip titled The Race for the Eighth (8th CD of MA).

I was in that district and it was the only time I’ve received regular polling phone calls.

We need to get rid of entrenched power that becomes established with never ending terms in office.

Corret me if I error, but both Ian Welsh and Kirk Murphy both replied to your “idea” most specifically when you promoted the idea before, and you never answered them, now you are at it again. Just what specific part of no don’t you quite understand. Term limits is a Repub simple answer to a complex problem for simple minds to grasp. If the authors of the Constitution considered your term limits as a workable answer, term limits would have been written in the Constitution at the convention or amended in the original Bill of Rights, not a later-day reaction, derived of political hatred for FDR. At the national political level of Congress, what is necessary to function effectively is not only highly complex but requires an advanced state of connections as well as administration abilities. All requires time to assemble such organizations and should the organization prove effective, now would be faced with dismemberment at the end of an abreviated term, it would not be handed over to any political successor of the developer, no businessman would hand over his developments to a competitor, a politician would be no different. On this practical level, your term limits is not only counterproductive, but detrimental to an effective productive political process. Add this to the elegant rational provided by Kirk Murphy and Ian Welsh. If you cannot be reasoned with, there is no point in carrying on a discussion with you, it would be like feeding pearls to swine, you have not provided any substantive backing to your argument then or now. Please refrain from raising the subject again, it is considered wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

sheesh, corret = correct

One further observation, by term limits you take away the right of a voting public to retain a representative that is effective for that district for as long as the representative remains acceptable, limiting the publics right to optimal political representation as they see fit..

And weren’t the republicans, once upon a time, a party that absolutely, totally and completely were in favor of protecting citizens against unwarranted and illegal tyranny by the state? Where are all the ‘black helicopter’ conspiracy types that were going to join militias and take up arms against the government to defend the likes of David Koresh and Randy Weaver? What happened to those guys? You don’t hear so much as a peep from them anymore. I guess they are too scared shitless to say anything. I’m not and I want my Constitution and Bill of Rights back!

They are all hitched on the Ron Paul bandwagon.

But hey, my local paper FINALLY covered the issue of warrantless surveillance! Very imperfectly, of course as they just grabbed something off of the wire as opposed to assigning a reporter to the story. Sure would have been nice to have had some coverage of the issue BEFORE the Senate threw our Constitutional rights ito the dumpster!

An unvarnished look at the source of the Obama phenomenon:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2….._prn.shtml

Welcome to the new boss; a lot like the old boss. . .

Short comment from the article I mentioned above:

“An Obama presidency (or a Clinton presidency, should her campaign ultimately prevail), would thus represent a fine-tuning or adjustment in American foreign policy, but no let-up in American imperialism’s drive to war and conquest, which arises not out of the brains of George W. Bush and Richard Cheney, but out of the historical crisis of American and world capitalism.

Obama is merely the product of an effective marketing campaign which has utilized media outlets ranging from Rupert Murdoch to The Nation to sell this new version of a very old product—the Democratic Party “friend of the people,” previously incarnated in the “insurgent” candidacy of Jimmy Carter in 1976, then in the “man from Hope,” Bill Clinton himself, in 1992. An Obama presidency would no more represent a fundamental change in American politics than the election of Carter and Clinton did, and if Murdoch & Co. feared it would, he would never have been allowed anywhere near the White House.”

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I hope you have it committed to memory

Sorry, I overslept and am late…

But I have started to use the 4th Amendment as my signatiure on all my email.
I may print it on labels and put it on outgoing snail mail envelopes.

yesterday, I email my Senator – Feinstein about my personal views on her
voting record regarding siding with this Administration. Below is my letter:

Just today, as you know, the Senate voted to save the telecom’s from facing the courts and giving the this Administration a blank check to do what they want, again! WHY?

Just after the vote was done in the Senate, the news wires were flooded with what we knew was true, that indeed the telecom’s did tap American’s with out warrants, per the White House Press Secretary, D. Pereno. Why?

What are you doing to protect our Liberties? Why is it that you side each time with this Administration? Why? Where is my voice through you?

I may be a small part of what you do, but I have voted each time in your support, but you have not done the same for me. Each day, I hope that the Senate and my Senators will start to voice what the people need and want and have asked for, but each time it has been struck down with the support going to back large corporations that save them from the people and lawsuits! ME! Why?

I am so frustrated with the lack of government, yet there is to much of it! You get health care on my dime, but I suffer from not getting it?

Senator Feinstein, my lack of understanding the major details in what comes across your desk may be large, but what I do understand is when my Senator votes to support and give immunity to both this Administration and Corporations and allow fear be your vision. Why?

For years, its been the same thing and for years to come it will remain that way unless new and fresh minds enter government. Start thinking in a different direction and with future minds .

This Administration has left government in a trash dump mode and the smell has impermanent so deep that every agency is effected and yet your leadership has major influence both in vote and voice just sides with them because NO one yet has been held accountable. WHY?

In closing, you have foster the problem with out explanation? why?

Is doing the right thing the right thing to do? If there are reasons beyond the publics knowledge, that I understand, but with out some feedback, I can only assume you play in to the politics of the moment.

Sincerely,
my name.

Constitutional usurpation under the color of law aided and abetted by “Asselephants” after the fact for the benefit of a “corporate aristocracy” hell bent on endless profit at all cost. Perpetuate the existing energy delivery system by stealing Iraqi Oil and selling it to US. Just as the colonies were mercantiled by a corrupt English King and his corporate cohorts in colonial crime. The Iraq Oil Plot!!!!! 60.8 billion in profit for Exxon Mobile while we Americans spend 11 billion dollars a day to fill our gas tanks, their cash cow………… WTF!!!!

Is it live or is it “Memorex” No just brainwashed minds………..

How about American protectionism for oil and auto!!!!! Done our economy real well over 35 years??

“We Need a Constitutional Democratic Party”

No doubt

“Obama voted for the Constitution in early votes [update: and against cloture]; he was not present for the final vote; we will need more “yes we can.” Clinton chose to be somewhere else. I assume we will not again hear campaign arguments about voting ‘present.’”

Remind me why I’m supposed to feel good about voting for either one of these irresponsible slugs? Oh yeah, so a monster doesn’t win?

Thanks Scarecrow for the well worded and thought out post, it covers all the bases about the threats that this Version of thew FISA bill represents… Again Thanks..

I signed again and sent the petition to all my contacts and I included the following remarks:
This FISA bill must be stopped. Our constitution and the future of our country depend on it. An unfettered executive is expressly what the founding fathers fought against and included in the land mark document our constitution safe guards against such a unitary executive.
Please do everything possible to stop this FISA bill from becoming law. It will foment distrust in our government and surely there will be other Consequences that pale in comparison to any other thing this country has endured in it’s history.

Last week, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said that Bush authorized those waterboardings and would consider doing so in the future depending of circumstances. In other words, our Commander-in-Chief is a self-confessed practicing war criminal. Further, under the Yamashita Standard of the Doctrine of Command Responsibility, those in a positions of authority must act to prevent war crimes within their spheres of responsibility. Yamashita was executed for not doing so.

Specifically, Nancy Pelosi is preventing the House from taking action to stop Bush from committing further war crimes, which makes her just as guilty as Yamashita.

It boggles my mind. What ARE they thinking?

This from the NPR website:

1974: Plug Pulled on Nixon and his Plumbers

The House Judiciary Committee issues articles of impeachment against Richard M. Nixon, in part, for his role in authorizing wiretaps on 17 individuals, in a conspiracy to influence the outcome of the 1972 presidential election.

1975: Congress Gets an Earful at Church Hearings

Headed by Sen. Frank Church, a Senate committee looking into CIA and FBI intelligence operations hears a laundry list of abuses, including hundreds of warrantless wiretaps placed on antiwar and civil-rights leaders, such as Martin Luther King, Jr., as well as electronic surveillance of labor union leaders, student groups, newsmen and even former White House staffers and a U.S. Congressman.

My, how quickly people forget. Those who don’t remember history are doomed to repeat it.

Taxpayers dollars were used for this invasion of privacy it only stopped when the bills were not being paid. AT&T and most co partricipated I believe their was one comp[any or two that refused also even if you were not a subscriber if calls were routed through them thay were recorded – and this was done on all traffic in numerous routiung stations for 5 years until a At&T whistleblower spilled the beans.|
THIS SHOULD BE SUBJECT OF MISUSE OF FUNDS CLASS ACTION SUIT ANYONE WILLING TO SIGN ON

Bloggers need to get the word out Mary Landrieu needs to go down her conributors need to be contacted her constituients need to be informed She votes like a Republican so whats the difference send a few of these guys back to the real world and maybe they will get the message – the same for Tim Johnson in South Dakota who was again in a comma.These people were warned. Diane ” Israel First Feinstein gave us Mukasey and voted for this as well. Contact Republicans and Democrats and express outrage over this invasion of our Constitutional Rights and lets petition for a Constitutiuonal Convenntion and look at the independent requirment data for filing against these facists.
It is long overdue the way this country is going

Time after time she fails to represent her constituents. Support Mukasey to indemnify waterboarding and torture for ” W” because he allows Israel to get billions of dollars in defense and do what they please in Gaza and the West Bank.He will invade Iraq and Iran because that is what Likud wants. Today they announced building in East Jerusalem in violation of all agreements like the fence and the settlements that we pay for with our tax dollars. She will get the AIPAC dollars and the circle jerk will continue, and it really doesn’t matter if our Constitution is trampled in the process. It is wrong-she is wrong- and we better wake up.Americans are genuinely concerned about the security of Israel and want a just peace but honest brokers we are not and Dianne is one of the reasons.We defend Israel now we need to defend our Constitution.

Some unvarnished source. Hillary Clinton is a unilateralist.She distrusts International institutions and her support for the war was not an anomoly.Regime change was the Clinton policy and she will not even take nuclear weapons off the table in Iran.Her Wall Street contributions are 10 times that of Obama. She is Mama Warbucks when it comes to the military industrial establishment and gives them whatever they want. She learned her lesson with Mrs Arafat and now will support Israel blindly whatever they do.
They bombard Lebanon with cluster bombs she votes agaist banning them in civilian areas. Obama voted to ban their use . She favors the use of landmines like the millions planted by Israel in Lebanmon. They mainly blow children to bits but thats ok if Israel wants to use them. The fense on Palestinian land is ok ,settlements in violation of international and US brokered agreements are ok as well. Obama favors dialogue and common ground
If you think he feigns his opposition to war then you have not heard him speak against it and he did it while running for the Senate when that position was not well accepted. He has over 400,000 on line contributors and doesn’t take PAC money. He favors public financing and we need to get behind that because $ has corrupted our government. Who do you support Lyndon LaRouche? America is not for a socialist greed but a safety net and complete open oportunity to better oneself and advance in society based on a government that promotes the general welfare.Obama may not be all things for all people but he is the best chance I have seen in my lifetime to get our government back in the hands of the people and regain our respect in the world