The Hamilton Project – the Financial Times loved it:
In that context, we welcome the launch yesterday by the Brookings Institution of a new platform – the Hamilton Project, named after America’s first Treasury Secretary – to address America’s looming economic challenges. Although composed mostly of Democrats, the group states a clear preference for market-based solutions to America’s problems. It rejects the latent signs of protectionism recently visible on Capitol Hill. But it makes a strong case for the state to play a more constructive role both in improving the efficiency of America’s market economy, but also in addressing the growing inequity of market outcomes.
And why shouldn’t the FT love the Hamilton Project? The Project was created by corporatists, Wall Street uber-powers, and DLC insiders.
In a suite of offices three doors down Massachusetts Avenue from the Brookings Institution headquarters, Hillary Clinton’s closest Wall Street allies are drawing up economic policy for the next Democratic administration.
The offices belong to the Hamilton Project, a small think tank created by Robert E. Rubin, Bill Clinton’s Treasury secretary and key economic adviser, and former Treasury deputy secretary Roger C. Altman, who would be a front-runner for the same job in a new Clinton administration.
The project’s research, so far, would be familiar to students of the first Clinton administration: creative, wonky proposals for softening the impact of globalization without interfering with international trade, most of them crafted with an eye to fiscal austerity and a balanced budget.
The key advisory role played by Rubin and Altman, two pre-eminent Democratic Party economic centrists, has drawn criticism from more left-leaning economic voices, who also tweak the presumptive nature of the project, given that not a single vote has yet been cast in the 2008 campaign. "One wag told me that their effort looks a lot like drafting the 2009 budget," said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute, a think tank aligned with the more populist, labor-friendly segment of the Democratic Party.[snip]
Rubin is a key Wall Street ally of both Clintons, and a dominant player in Democratic Party economic policy. Altman served as a liaison between Sen. Clinton and Wall Street leaders as she ramped up her presidential campaign late last year, according to a New York Democrat.
The tension between the Hamilton Project’s work and Sen. Clinton’s more populist economic talking points on the stump is one of the things that has made her place in the long-running party debate over trade, deficits and globalization less than clear.
Clinton critics point to her Wall Street allies as a reason Democrats should look elsewhere. "The people that are close to her … don’t have much really to point to in terms of the interest of working men and women," said former Michigan congressman David E. Bonior, Edwards’ campaign manager, who called President Clinton’s trade policies "a disaster for working people."
Lauded by the Senator who made time in a busy schedule for the Project’s launch:
I would love just to sit here with these folks and listen because you have on this panel and in this room some of the most innovative, thoughtful policymakers, people who have both ideas but also ways of implementing them into action. Our country owes a great debt to a number of people who are in this room because they helped put us on a pathway of prosperity that we are still enjoying, despite the best efforts of some. (Laughter)
I want to thank Bob [Rubin] and Roger [Altman] and Peter for inviting me to be here today. I wish I could be here longer. I am going to have to run after a few minutes because we do have an important issue relating to U.S.-India relations. But when Roger originally called to invite me, not only to this forum but to invite me to engage in this project, I couldn’t help but think that this was the sort of breath of fresh air that I think this town needs.
We have all known for some time that the forces of globalization have changed the rules of the game—how we work, how we prosper, how we compete with the rest of the word.We all know that the coming baby boomers’ retirement will only add to the challenges that we face in this new era. Unfortunately, while the world has changed around us, Washington has been remarkably slow to adapt twenty-first century solutions for a twenty-first century economy. As so many of us have seen, both sides of the political spectrum have tended to cling to outdated policies and tired ideologies instead of coalescing around what actually works.
For [liberals - kjm], and I include myself in that category, too many of us have been interested in defending programs the way they were written in 1938, believing that if we admit the need to modernize these programs to fit changing times, then the other side will use those acknowledgements to destroy them altogether. On the right, there is a tendency to push for massive tax cuts, as Peter indicated from my speech at Knox College, no matter what the cost or who the target is, a view that stems from the belief that there is no role for government whatsoever in the challenges we face. Of course, neither of these approaches really works.
[snip]
That is what I hope we will see from The Hamilton Project in the months and years to come. You have already drawn some of the brightest minds from academia and policy circles…. So I know that there are going to be wonderful ideas that are generated as a consequence of this project.
Not every idea will I embrace, and I hope that one of the roles that I can play, as a participant in this process, is to not only encourage the work but occasionally challenge it. I will give one simple example. I think that if you polled many of the people in this room, most of us are strong free traders and most of us believe in markets. …So, hopefully, this is not just going to be all of us preaching to the choir. Hopefully, part of what we are going to be doing is challenging our own conventional wisdom and pushing out the boundaries and testing these ideas in a vigorous and aggressive way.
But I can’t think of a better start, given the people who are participating today. I am glad that Brookings has been willing to provide a home for this wonderful effort.
Oh – the Senator who made time for the christening of the new corporatist think tank… the love child of the Clintons’ BFF Robert Rubin?
Sen Barack Obama.
What a party: two free traders duking it out for the nomination.
Tweedle corporatist-Dum, Tweedle corporatist-Dee.
I’d ask someone to wake me up when the nominations are decided, but no need to baather.
Stampeding sheep make quite the sound and fury.
Especially when the reasons for the hue and cry are woolly to start with.
[photo credit: quinn.anya]
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Did I ever mention that I despise the DLC…
The 1938 New Deal would go far in getting us out of this mess we’re in…
Oh, now why did you have to recall the specter of Ralphie Nader??
Rubin who was at the helm of CitiCorp as it lost 10’s of billions with his market based approach to finance? Who got screwed?
The phrase “competition in the world” stood out to me. So if we don’t bomb them to oblivion we play dirty pool in economics and turn them in to slave labor pools… in a winner takes all international competition for resources.
The whole market meme is flawed but no one wants to think about the losers in competition, they just want to be on the winning side and f*ck it.
Losers are not happy campers are they?
Jeez, we need to bury the putrifying dead horse of FT. Maybe now that Wal street has screwed the economy with the mortgage mess someone will put these guys in jail. Perhps the young idealist Obamaics will be able to bring a paradigm shift – but like health care, it will be a struggle.
I would LOVE a market-based solution to many of America’s problems. That’d be a nice change from what Bush and the Republicans are now doing, which is to socialize the bailouts of the financial industry while making sure that the rewards, if any, are only shared by a few.
The odd thing is that this country is not about democracy and liberty and so forth.
It is all about FREE market capitalism. That’s the free that matters to these greedy creeps.
Where are the usury laws when we need them?
Capitalism is the new world for feudalism. Workers without rights are little more than serfs who work their whole lives to pay interest on the consumer crap they are seduced into buying.
the new WORD not world
Gone the way of the Dinosaurs…
We need to expose the DLC. Say. Who are thos guys?
Oh God, don’t get kiddo started on the DLC.
L.
Yup, but… there is always the possibility of things coming back. How come NO ONE is being held responsible for this banking mess. There should be 100s in jail for this already.
yup SEDUCED!
Have I bitched about right-wing think tanks lately?
The DLC is behind this? say no more the plan is a failure. The DLC are GOP lite. NAFTA destroyed the small family farm in Mexico (which resulted in the immigrant problem) raised the price of food there immediately and now here food prices are going up here.
Clinton balanced the budget, cut military spending, and actually ran the government .
Those three things are all the next President has to do.
End the war, give us French healthcare, and hybrid cars/green energy in other words all 3 of these ideas would save us money!
DLC compromise with Newt when Bill was President created Enron.
DLC Leadership Team.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=137
The big guys always get a pass. They use tax dollars… and borrowed money, the people’s money to bail out these creeps every time.
We need a tax payer’s revolt.
I fully concur, the credit card companies should be first on the chopping block…
awww … the FT is the only paper I read. They actually cover parts of the world never mentioned in US papers and have a sense of humor.
Eventually a few minor players will pay. As usual, We, the People, will be only too happy to pick up the tab.
The FT is a great paper. And to think it comes in pink!
Happy Third Way Days could be here again.
Wow, no mention of Rahmbo… The one who recruited Carper and Ford…!
The market is not free nor fair but rigged by the financial freaks on wall street.
And this economy is just beginning to tank. The worst is yet to come.
On credit cards, and banks (Bank of America is grim): this is something that local activism could help with by setting up local restrictions on the type of economic activities that take place in a community – for example raising rates on CCs arbitrarily, or without prior notice.
Kirk … the rest of that statement from Sen. Obama back in 2006 included the following (along with his “I may not agree line above”:
Until we find a way to completely overhaul our economy, we’re going to have candidates with corporate links and embracing free trade … just means we need to work harder to bring about change.
Perhaps… I certainly hope they will.
They certainly will have a struggle with their candidate,
The Senator who took time from their busy schedule – the one who showed up to celebrate the launch of the Hamilton Project?
The Senator who fawned over the Hamilton Project in the remarks quoted above?
That’s Senator Obama.
Those idealists have a lot of work to do….
Short of brain transplantation, I can’t see how they’ll succeed.
But I sure wish ‘em luck.
Walter Wriston of city bank invented the credit card.
It was a conspiracy to stimulate consumerism, but making credit easily available and another revenue stream for the banks. They charged the vendors and the payers. And soon everyone abandoned savings for consumer credit.
And they substituted a credit score for a savings account and everyone is now tagged.
We are like little worker bees and the uber rich have 100 million dollar yachts and don’t pay taxes.
yea HOMELAND SECURITY
Posted on: Tuesday, February 12, 2008
Baby held in locked room at airport dies
A 14-day-old infant traveling here for heart surgery died at Honolulu International Airport on Friday after he, his mother and a nurse were detained by immigration officials in a locked room, a lawyer for the boy’s family said.
The Honolulu medical examiner’s office yesterday identified the infant as Michael Futi of Tafuna, American Samoa’s largest village, which is located on the east coast of Tutuila Island. Autopsy findings have been deferred.
We all will need luck. This is the only thing taught in many econ classes today.
so many billionaires like Rumsfield on the death of many brown people
Good night dear people. Lahoma and I are retiring upstairs. She wants to watch a movie. What’s my job? Swiss Miss with marshmellows (are we getting set in our ways?). You are fighting the good fight. Of course you don’t me to tell you that.
Capitalism and capitalists OWN this country. They will never give it up to regulated socialism… or even regulated capitalism.
This country has nothing to do with democracy. It’s only an economic engine.
All they do for metrics of the nation is measure economics.
” It rejects the latent signs of protectionism recently visible on Capitol Hill. But it makes a strong case for the state to play a more constructive role both in improving the efficiency of America’s market economy, but also in addressing the growing inequity of market outcomes. “
Translation forget protecting Good, Union, High Paying jobs, but we in Washington are ready to bailout the banks and hedgefunds if they get into trouble.
What do you want to bet any Washington bailout of FORD MOTOR COMPANY will require the union workers to cut back wages and benefits?
Even though the reason people will support a bailout of FORD is because they provide those wages and benefits.
Its funny to listen to DLC/GOP businessmen talk about the economy when its all been downhill since we stopped following FDR’s plans.
So we have a choice of three “free-trade” (free for corporations) candidates: Hillary, Obama, McCain. What a choice!
As usual, welfare state for the rich, free enterprise for the rest of us.
No doubt we’ll continue to have candidates with corporate links (and umbilicals) embracing “free” trade.
Which is why the clearest route to bring change would be to support candidates who didn’t embrace it – and clearly stated so.
Of course, that’s not a way to get in good with former Sec. Rubin and the Citigroup mafia.
yup the 1%ers own 50 % of everything ,i guess the Saudis own the rest
Thanks for the UN_EDITED version. It seems some here have their own agenda on how we are to perceive Obama.
Salmon! I’m serious I used to deliver it.
The Fed is a private corporation which loans money to the government and WE pay them hundreds of billions in interest every month.
Wall street is the segment of the economy which produces absolutely nothing.
Actually, they’d been spinning it that the baby hadn’t been delayed, and they are not responsible… They said the parents hadn’t made any advance notifications that the baby was in dire need of immediate medical care(which was the sole purpose of the trip), and, they weren’t delayed ‘unnecessarily’… It’s been widely reported here in the Isles…!
i keep getting epu’d
trying to do too many things at one time.
kirk knows i respect his thread…….
ecahn, left a message for you at 111
now, to read the post
1/10 of 1 percenters…! ;-)
Sander … corporate power is real, yes. That’s why I work in the field of corporate responsibility – how do we create a framework that requires corporations to work in ways that benefit their communities, workers and the environment?
There’s a very strong movement amongst religious groups, environmentalists, NGOs and some great folks inside corporations trying to do just that. A key way is shifting the thinking of investors – providing carrots and sticks based on corporate behavior – and the cool thing is that everyone can participate – from shifting your purchases to fair trade and from companies that behave to making sure any investments you have and any state pensions, etc you have an interest in demand the same standards.
That was a lot to leave out the post.
Well, we don’t know. That 14 day old could have been a terrorist.
WTF has my country come to?
The good news is that the capitalist bubble is going to burst. Not the dot.com, not the sub prime, not the S&L.. the whole bloody think. The house of cards WILL collapse.
Then what?
Obama was schmoozing during their launch, two years ago. There are no policy endorsements there. In fact, he says he will disagree with them on some (unspecified) things. For balance, you should have mentioned his much more recent (today) progressive speech on trade.
Kirk … I don’t see a candidate in the race who is running on the Mondragon platform so we makes our choices amongst the ones we’ve got, eh?
DLC or GOP idea can voters tell the difference? Heck can the politically savvy folks here at FDL tell the difference between a GOP idea and a DLC one?
* trick question there is no difference
Economic boycotts do work… Look at South Africa during Apartheid…!
Banks are only subject to the laws of the states in which they are incorporated. That’s why they are all in Delaware or North (or is it South?) Dakota – no usury laws.
Some within corporations may be “green” and ethical, but not so in finance and they are the one’s who own the corporations. Corporations are all leveraged with debt and so they dance to the bankers and hedge funds and now Sov welath funds. That’s just money looking for return. nothing more.
Exactly … and there are many ways beyond boycotts to have impact. In my work I get to see the internal programs for example to deal with sweatshops – now no companies would get an A+ on this – and many companies are now admitting that – but there are developments, audits of factories, open reporting of practices etc which were unheard of in the past and that’s thanks in many ways to college students pushing for no sweatshop goods on their campuses …. imagine if we all participated?
Siun, those are nice words for Sen Obama to have spoken.
Perhaps he’s also made a point of showing up at the launch of “fair trade groups”.
Perhaps he’s made those nice words into legislation he’s introduced and championed – legislation calling for the US to exercise our right to withdraw from the WTO / NAFTA / CAFTA in order to re-negotiate the agreements to ensure labor and the environment are given protection and deference equal to that which the “free” trade agreements currently reserve only for transational capital.
But I can’t find any record of those actions.
He did take the action to show up and fawn on the launch of the Hamilton Society – and those who created it.
Like his pal Bob Rubin and his pal who was Clinton’s Dep. Treasury Secretary.
Perhaps one day, his actions on mitigating the catastrophic results of the “free” trade agreements will match his profession of concern about the consequences.
But to date – not so much.
yeah States Rights… a repub rallying cry
Thanks. Sounds like great memories & trip into NYC.
So AT&T and Verison hit here. But how does a people boycott a near monopoly?
I was so bummed when I learned the Iphone was AT&T only.
Got rid of my landline and just have Sprint now.
Oh, and where’s our buddy LS?
Sander – within the financial markets there’s a growing realization that there are serious risks in unethical behavior – it’s still very early in this but take a look at the UN Principals of Responsible Investment for example. I don’t expect miracles but I do see movement in an interesting direction which we can support.
OK your right, I was thinking trout pink. But, salmon it is!
Kiddo and I like Obama.
Goodnight.
L.
I don’t utilize AT&T or Verizon, which was bought out by AT&T, BTW, I use Vonage! *g*
“transnational capital”, not “transational”.
Preview is my firned.
It was also an intellectual boycott (no scholarly interaction and in some ways that was even more powerful.
Larry Craig gets a *spanking*!
Of course, and why is it that Texas and Alaska get to charge the rest of the states huge prices for oil? What are we missing?
eah, when it works for the multinationals. When they want a mass market, they favor one set of rules, enforced by the Federal Government through the ICC. Heads I win, tails you lose!
One can hope, but when people think that have multi billion dollar fortunes is OK we have a problem. That sort of wealth is obscene and means millions are suffering for their yachts and portfolios.
The whole concept of wealth accumulation is fundamental to capitalism, american it is is fundamentally wrong.
Why put a band aid on a cancer?
Dayam – sure would like to have a big King show up at my door. How do I sign up?
The Hamilton Project “It rejects the latent signs of protectionism recently visible on Capitol Hill.”
Protectionism is visible again because Bill and Bush 2 outsourced everything after almost 15 years of free traders running the economy people want change for a reason.
I’m for fair trade myself. I see no reason to allow sweatshop labor to undercut the price of clothing jobs here. I see no reason for Mexico to cut their farm subsides while we flooded Mexico with cheap corn driving the bankrupt farmers here…and then raise the price of corn once the competition is up north working here.
Free Trade is bad for everyone not only us. Free Trade does not *vomit* help the poor brown people .
How ethical can a corporation like Exon Mobil be? They make 50 billion in profit and fought paying a few tens of millions for clean up of the oil spill?
And their billions in profits is killing millions of people? Where’s the ethics there?
Shall we talk Pharma?
I’m writing this before reading the comments, and I’ve no brief for the conservative side of Brookings, but as a Ph.D (Piled High and Deep) in Economics, I have to say that the United States is careering towards a situation that is in very distant ways like the one Hamilton solved. Worse, in a way, because at least the economics-informed part of the American public — which was a large portion in an age of restricted suffrage — supported him. Not the case today.
If we were to take a rational expectations view (I don’t necessarily take that view) the US is careering towards bankruptcy. The social security trust funds have been raided by the current bandits in office. They should be arrested and sent to G’Mo for this and worse crimes, but whatever, it’s water under the bridge and as Jevons said, bye-gones are bye-gones. We can’t get our youth back.
So given that, the US has to dig itself out of a financial hole. That’s the Hamiltonian momewnt. Who pays that digging is an entirely different question. We will have to wait and see how the Hamiltonians play it. I think (without knowing who they are) that it’s an even bet between the middle classes and the rich. Assuming the big ‘O’ gets elected, I put my money on the rich. But there’s no question that we will have to fight the Social Security battle all over again. It’s on the table.
Anyway, all this is to say, we are in a deep hole. The dead bodies in it stink to hell. Somebody has to pay to bury them. It’s our obligation to make sure that the people who killed them pay that cost.
paper, Kirk, the color of the FT. *g*
Verizon I believe is still a separate company from AT&T. What is currently known as AT&T was SBC (another one of the Baby Bells) but re-named themselves when they acquired the old AT&T.
Verizon is made up of the old Bell Atlantic and NYNEX Baby Bells plus GTE
Show me a huge trans national corporation which acts in the interest of anyone but their shareholders?
Gee Kirk, you paint a grim picture, I’m gonna have to swallow a whole bunch of sanguinity pills now.
And Sander, oh you guys is just truthin’ us right out of our widdle minds.
(And, you know, Sander, I is in totality agreement with your darkest insights)
OK Kirk, Edwards might have got ‘it’ – Obama and Clinton (beloved as they are) aren’t gonna rise to the occassion and most of us realize that ‘things’ are going to get much worse than ‘people’ realize. That’s the ‘good news’.
So what do ya propose that we should do? Now? This ‘election’? None of our ‘choices’ are adequate to the demands of the time. Therefore, truthiness asks, ‘What actual, in fact ‘real’ suggestions have you?’
We are reduced to merest ‘hope’ are we not? And hopeiness ain’t much to predicate our future on, now is it?
Salmon is Pink isn’t it? My point was the FT guys were snooty and pretentious
Pink was to common and or feminine Salmon is well snooty.
I am curious to see what the economic geniuses come up with the erase the trillions of debt the US has created?
Lower the dollar and increase exports? Exports of what? Bombs and Jetliners? That’s about all we produce here.
kirk-i finally read the post, although all of the links, i admit i did not do, some got hung up on my dial-up machine………..
obama says- in plain daylight, on his own, in an atmosphere where he is free to speak in whatever manner he wants-”as a participant in this process, is to not only encourage the work but occasionally challenge it. I will give one simple example. I think that if you polled many of the people in this room, most of us are strong free traders and most of us believe in markets. …So, hopefully, this is not just going to be all of us preaching to the choir. Hopefully, part of what we are going to be doing is challenging our own conventional wisdom and pushing out the boundaries and testing these ideas in a vigorous and aggressive way.”
free trader, gee, has this been discussed much? no
do you all have any idea what free trade means? no
do you have any idea what free trade has to do with the economy? no
do you have any idea what the mortgage game going on right now has to do with free trade? no
do you have any idea what the bonds market has to do with free trade? no
do you have any idea what hedge funds have to do with free trade?
do you have any idea what interest rates have to do with free trade? no
read again what the man said, in plain english.
please oh please read up on what free trade really means, and all of the things that are impacted because of it, it will curl your hair, the only reason i ever did was because i have a friend who is an economist, and let me know what i didn’t know.
i’m just sayin’
i’m a dodd pod. he’s outta the race. stupid you.
people don’t get what kinds of deals are being made, even by those that enchant you.
They’ll let inflation eat away at the dollar, reducing debt (and our purchasing power). The dollar has dropped significantly already. A few years ago, the Euro was struggling to reach .80, now it is over $1.50 and rising. We lost about half our purchasing power in the international markets in the past five years.
Vestas wind Systems Denmark worlds biggest pure play in windmills. Any German solar cell firm there are several.
You’re right, I was thinking of when Verizon wireless was bought up by AT&T wireless… My bad!
The government has to seize the assets of the big corporations, nationalize them. Tax the hell out of the wealthy, remove all the tax havens, loop holes and get our money back.
Drop the military to a tiny fraction of what it is. Put people to work on WPA type enviro, energy and infra structure rebuilds.
Outlaw interest above 10% for anything.
Incomes above $1MM taxed 95%
Wealth and inheritances taxed 90%
All ROIs above 10% are taxed 100%. We need to cut the greed and get the money out of private hands and into the peoples hands for a change.
uh oh, Kirk, whenever I see a new post by you, I know I’m going to have my worst suspicions confimed.
Whoa! Balls to the wall, eh?
Free markets are like a casino. If you have nothing to bet, you are not in the game.
In response to SanderO @ 81
They’ll let inflation eat away at the dollar, reducing debt (and our purchasing power). The dollar has dropped significantly already. A few years ago, the Euro was struggling to reach .80, now it is over $1.50 and rising. We lost about half our purchasing power in the international markets in the past five years.
reply
Holy! Gas in Seattle is $3 a gallon lets assume the Euroe was at a 1 to 1 with the Dollar if the Euroe is at $1.50 a dollar then gas would be at $2 a gallon if the Dollar had kept par with the Euro.
We have the dollar by 1/3 then.
I don’t believe in markets.
Markets make many losers and a few winners.
Just what ideas for our economy does this project have? Or are they all Karl’s ideas?
Things, you are so spot on.
NAFTA “externalized” tens (hundreds?) of thousands of near-subsistence farmers in Mexico; they lost their livlihood when subsidized US corn crashed into Mexican markets. The subsidized US corn so undercut their real costs they could not possibly compete.
[Of course, the tortilla mfrs didn’t pass on the lower costs - just pocketed the difference.]
Where did those disenfranchised farmers go?
In great numbers, to El Norte.
So the wonders of “free” trade destroyed their lives and communities – to survive, they came to the US.
Where the corporatist party found a new industry: privatized INS jails.
Which we taxpayers subsdize.
Funny how something called “free” trade keeps costiing so damn much – and destroying so many lives and communities on both sides of our borders.
Most of the people in the world live on less than $2 a day.
Hello?????????????????????????
carolynu–yes, worst suspicions confirmed……….but that’s a good thing.
Prison industrial complex: the fastest growing industry in the USA
2.5 million incarcerated today. Highest per capita in the world.
Thanks Kirk:)
No, you have it backwards. If the Euro was 1-1, then went to 1.50 (i.e. cost of a Euro went from $1 to $1.50), everything costs half again as much (in dollars).
If the dollar drops to 2 cents our debtors lost all the value of the junk bonds we sold them so we could buy their shit.
The when no one will take dollars for oil dollar holders will have completely useless currency.
Oh that’s gonna be lovely
Now that is the daring agenda we need. It might work in Venezuela, but the bodies would have to be piled very high for this nation to act in so civilized a fashion.
I wonder where the energy and money will come from to primary our Democratic president in 2012, whoever s/he may be. Progressives, keep your powder dry!
hmmm… depends how you look at it.
Kirk, I value your posts for their truth telling. Never easy reading, keeps me up at night with dark thoughts, but true.
Kirk … I’m not suggesting that Obama is an anti-globalization activist. I was simply pointing out that he did both say he might not agree with them, that there was a need to challenge conventional thinking and then he closed by reminding them of the human cost of what they were theorizing about.
Not sure I’d identify that as fawning but he clearly didn’t tell them they all sucked.
I think the only candidate who might have done that would have been either Dennis or maybe Gravel.
So that’s what is …then the question is what do we do about it?
I have some things I think are helpful – not solutions but pushing a bit in the right direction. I’d love to know others.
There you go again, truthin’ us remorseleesly. Go Kirk! Go!
Sorry CarolynU.
Look on the bright side – at least you can close the browser.
Try as I may, I can’t figure out a safe and viable way to do the same for my (waking) brain.
[Of course, on the bright side for me: things could be worse. I shuld be grateful Microsoft only makes browsers, not brains… *g* ]
The oil producers keep raising the price of oil because it is denominated in dollars and the want to make the same profit. Our dollar sinks, they put the price higher. If they didn’t they would be losing more and more and their product would see selling for less and less.
They will take oil off the dollar soon.
Then the USA will be shit out of luck because it doesn’t have euros to buy oil.
Where do I sign up for the SanderO team?
This disaster was brought on by wall street and it’s whoring for obscene profits wherever it can find them, even creating debt and selling it out of thin air.
The trick will be to find one that won’t sell us out! But, hey, sign me up!
hahaha
My deceased brother in law was an economist for the refundazione in Italy!
No, no apology called for. I’ve learned a great deal from your posts, and I value your opinion and expertise. And usually you write about things that I already have on my radar. The world is dark these days, and you’re shining a light, but it’s not a nice picture.
I do truly thank you for enlightening us. We need to be informed, so we know how to act.
We seem to have a corporate oil archy running our supposed Democracy Haliburtron seems to be not only a corporate person they seem to have more rights than rape victims.
The socialist in northern Europe seem to have the most people friendly anticorporate countries in the world, but mysteriously they have both a better standard of living and a good economy.
I say we copy off their test paper! They seem to know all the answers!
Or as we say if your going to steal, steal from the best.
Siun, please share; some serious ‘pushing’ is long overdue!!
Oil was $11 when Bush took office.
For what it’s worth I can’t turn off my brain either. I have very dark thoughts these days.
They have corporations in check over there.
Let’s copy Norway and Sweden!
Wow.
rifondazione
my italian sux
Sorry math is my worse subject.
Horrors!! Are you seriously suggesting that America has ANYTHING to learn from others? Why that undermines one our most-cherished myths, besides, our money says that Dog is on our ’side’.
I’m taking my hound out, we’ve had several feet of snow recently. We’ll go around the corner and he’ll see deer in the back field, where I’ve put out some hay. If we’re lucky, we’ll hear some coyotes, not too nearby. And I’m going to try to think about snow and hound and stars.
Intentionallo omitting material to deceive readers is not cool.
And what was missed by that elipsis?
This:
Of course, showing Obama raising concerns for the plight of workers would undercut the author’s point, so it somehow got edited out.
kirk, i was involved in the union back in the 80’s…………..we went around trying to inform what nafta would do…….nobody wanted to listen, nobody….i mean NOBODY……i was not an activist person, not at all, was pressured into talking about it to people, but i did, because i could see what they were saying was true…….
and nobody listened.
so, sometimes, when i hear the talk on here, about nafta, i wonder, where the hell were you when we were trying to tell you? mowin’ your lawn, doin’ your job, trying to get a date, goin’ to the grocery buying crap-which you now know is crap…………non-radical people like me were trying to tell you….in the mid-80’s, waaaaaaaaaay before it ever came down….so, i kinda don’t have much sympathy for people not listening,.not seeing in a forward manner……….they were content, they said, so fuck you people who are trying to agitate……..i was not an agitator, yet i could see what was happening, cuz i went to union education seminars where people i was sitting with were being put out of work, textile workers, etc. it was a real thing, so, i believed it…….i saw the films of the state of the workers in other countries even before nafta was enacted, and it was appalling………
i watched it all happen, step by step, i first learned about it in the mid-80’s and america just sat back and said we don’t care………
now you care………..well, do you care about the mex-america freeway being put in place right now?
people in texas and across america need your help in fighting it.
free trade, please educate yourselves in what that means exactly, and how trade affects you, exactly.
Reinvigorating the Sherman Anti-trust laws would go far, ‘course, Glass-Stegall would help too…!
Here are links to both candidates most recent major speeches on Economics:
Senator Clinton: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/…..w/?id=5466
Senator Obama: http://my.barackobama.com/page…..elsen/Cmzm (scroll down for the transcript)
No problem, we’re here to help each other.
Geez. Thanks Siun. Always look forward to the Sunday posts but this was a great job of setting the record straight. wasn’t it you who did the same with the “sleazy law firm”. Posters who leave out material portions of a quote in order to make a point lose credibility in my eyes.
Thanks again. This anti-Obama crap is getting booooor-riiiiiing. look, when you guys have something on the guy, by all means, let us know. Until then, get used to the idea that this is who you’ll be voting for in November.
The problem is that the banks ARE insolvent NOW.
It’s part of the system. When there is a run the house of cards collapses.
carolyn, it’s an overused phrase, but my dad always said–
it’s fuel for the fodder. and it is. burns slow and long with deep embers, or fast and quick with bright flames.
Beerfart – I think Kirk is arguing that we only have corporate choices and I would not disagree though I see a difference in approach, it’s certainly not the level of difference I dream of.
I’m more concerned that we not get so depressed that we throw up our hands and quit working for better … takes a long time and lots of steps to get anywhere worthwhile.
Candidates – perfect, nope. That’s why we’re activists.
I mean, it had to have been intentionally edited out because it didn’t jive with the point trying to be made. I won’t say it’s disengenuous. I’ll try to think of a different word and get back to you if I do.
Nationalize Big Oil and Big Pharma.
Imprison their current Boards of Directors.
Make mercenary armies illegal worldwide.
Shut down Big Armaments.
Listen to Ike about the Military [Congressional] Industrial complex.
It truly is astounding how pervasive and insidious this fiasco is… It impacts the entire spectrum, unlike the S&L crisis… How many shoes will drop…?
Actually, a number of them are insolvent, or approaching it, due to buying up the crap securitized by the mortgages which were provided without due diligence on the part of the lenders (i.e., some were called in the trade “liar loans” because the mortgage companies had a policy of not checking the information on income and assets provided by those taking out the mortgages).
Me neither. haven’t since I was a kid.
Right on!
I’m with Teddy, Kirk and Siun! (If they will have me *g*)
In fact all charted banks you know are insolvent.
They are chartered to loan out 9x what they have in deposits. They print money! A loan is shown on their books as an asset. And most are not collateralized sufficiently.
If their depositors ran the bank they don’t have the cash. End of story.
Isn’t Venezuela fending off a multi-billion $ lawsuit from Exxon-Mobil for Nationalizing…? *g*
Farm raised Salmon is dyed pink.
Having walked into many an open house on Sunday strolls here in SF in the past three years and looked at the “financing” on offer, I can tell you that I was very quickly shown the door when I asked “Well, what would I have to pay monthly in two or three years?” and “This mortgage never gives me any equity in the property?”
They called them “liar loans” because everyone was lying.
Snark, right? I know it is bad to eat, but is it dyed?
Now that I am totally depressed….
The market is now in a pump and dump thing as investors try to find suckers to offload their shares. Completely manipulated.
As many voters still have an opportunity to select one of the remaining major Dem candidates for Prez, where I’m starting tonight is to spotlight the Hamilton Society.
I’m quite aware this spotlight won’t be comfortable for the partisans of either major candidate – what it illuminates is quite ugly.
Both candidates have had years on the Senate floor to translate empty rhetoric about their professed concerns for the consequences of “free” trade.
Tonight I look at the fact both candidates have embraced the Hamilton Society – and this will discomfit both candidates’ partisans.
Nice of the Senators to speechify when in a fight for votes – the votes that will lead (they hope) to delegates, the nomination, the election – and power.
Nice to promise unspecified future disagreements with power when they were in the delivery room as the Hamailton Society crowned.
Yet – when both Senators have had the power to challenge “free” trade – not merely talk about their future draft picks to challenge the Washington Consensus…
When both have had theis power for years, what have they actually done with it?
*crickets*
And now both Senators – and their loyal adherents – ask us to believe the Senators’ words about what they will do with yet more power.
In this model, the Senators’ own actions when they actually have power are to be given less weight than their campaign speeches.
Convenient, but risible.
The best predicitor of these ambitious pols’ future actions is their words? Their words during a campaign?
Uh…where is the empirical data to support this newfound faith in the predicitive power of campaign speeches?
Am I really to believe that after years of both Senators choosing not to take substantive action to challenge “free” trade and the Washington Consensus, they will sudddenly show their fair trade roots when elected to their first term as Prez?
Are we really to believe that – this time – we can trust the Dem leaders? They really will bite the hands that buy them? That all ths time, they’ve just been laying low and keeping their powder dry? But this time, they’ll use the power they didn’t use as a Senator?
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh man, it’s not about being anti-obama or anti-clinton, it’s about what has been happening for the past 20 fucking years…………..or longer………..
read my post at, wait, let me go get it, 123…………funny, cuz my email is ——-123…….symmetry maybe.
what is it that let’s you all not admit that you don’t know fiscal policy???????
how it all really works when you go to bed with your paycheck………or not………
that you don’t know what free trade means???????? cuz they’ve been passing it for years and years and years in congress, and noone’s been saying SHIT about it…………
so don’t come off now like you know where your candidate STANDS ON IT, cuz ya don’t……..
and how do i know this????????????
cuz i have been watchin’ them on this, since the 80’s, and they haven’t said shit, neither one of them……….
so, back off and educate yourselves. then make a comment about it.
and this comment chills me to my core-
” But I can’t think of a better start, given the people who are participating today. I am glad that Brookings has been willing to provide a home for this wonderful effort.”
wonderful effort, fucking wonderful……..
Agreed. And all are now paying a price for their connivance.
Look for Bush to push for a bail-out of the banks that bought the securities backed by these dubious mortgages. It will be marketed as a way to “keep people in their homes,” but the money will go to the banks, not the people. And it will be tax money – you know, the taxes conservatives say are “your money” – that will become the banking corporations’ money.
I think they refer to it as “artificial color added.”
OT..But on the subject of environment and energy, I was driving across Nebraska yesterday and off in the distance I saw a smoke stack belching huge amounts of smoke. It reminded me of what used to be common before the ”Clean Air Act” or what is common in China. After driving about 20 miles the source came into view…A nice new Ethanol plant..burning coal as fuel and no scrubbers in the stack. There must be a fine print exemption in the Ethanol law that allows this kind of shit.
Hmmm… $210 Billion is being touted by Obama, today, as an economic shot in the arm, by investing in our infrastructure and green energy initiatives, I think that’s too little…!
shite:
“predictive” , not predictive.
“predictor”, not predicitor.
jeebus – can’t type for benas.
Kirk, presumably either/both of them have the potential to learn. From my vantage there are two salient issues: 1) which has the most imprint of big pharma and other lobbiests who would expect to be paid off after the election; 2) which would be more willing to end the ME war so it doesn’t continue to be a sink hole.
I tried to pimp you url, kirk, on Obama’s FB fund raiser page but they are just happy Obamacrats.
Now you’re pilling on! *g*
The edit function would be nice to have back…! *g*
The Amrican dream is to live like the rich 2% who own 95% of the wealth. It is a shell game like Lotto ticket you gamble a few win and the 2% get slaves to keep the profits comming in. The American dream is a dream.
I’ll take freedom, live free with what I need. Just sayin.
Tell me you did that on purpose – “benas.” *g*
Great post, Kirk. Caused quite a stir, sign of a good one.
You won’t be getting progressive at the head of the ticket of a mainstream party.
Edwards stuck it to corporations and then shut him down. And used every trick including making fun of his haircuts.
Ken Lay’s estate paid nothing.
So true! *g*
Good grief, Charlie Brown. Also looks like AR will soon build an coal plant for the Texas wholesale markets.. No scrubbers.
Speaking of coal. I have been meaning to share this link with Kirk.
Coal Ash Is More Radioactive than Nuclear Waste
By burning away all the pesky carbon and other impurities, coal power plants produce heaps of radiation
The diet of wild Salmon contains small shrimp, krill, etc that color the flesh pink. The diet of farm raised Salmon doesn’t contain the “things” that make pink flesh..sooooo..they dye it pink. Farm raising Salmon is not good for the environment.
Very true. The guy gives a speech to the Hamilton Society and based upon a few carefully chosen exceprpts above, I’m supposed to reach a conclsuion? I wasn’t able to. I just don’t see this a sbeing very important. I mean, by comparison, it makes Rezko look almost newsworthy.
But really, do they artificially “enhance” the color of farmed salmon. I’m curious.
Exactly,
competition is the American meme.
And here there are more losers than winners.
We don’t talk about or care about the losers. It was their own fault.
Thanks for the info. So in addition to being bad for you it is bad for you.
Two quick fixes to that abomination that Newt & Hammer foisted on us, 1)Have Medicare/aid negotiate the Drug Pricing, and, 2) Close that f*cking donut hole…
Yes, really, see Steve @ 161.
Richmond, as we’re stuck with the two of them as the remaining Dem candiates, I sure hope they translate that potential to learn into a capacity to learn and change behavior.
Yet the Seattle WTO protests were eight years ago.
And the real costs to our nation and our people of “free” trade were discussed extensively before then – and even more extensively since.
With both Senators eviincing no behaviors consistent with learning to oppose the WTO / NAFTA / Washington Consensus in the last eight years, I find nothing to support my hope they’d suddenly change behavior for the next eight years.
Got it thanks. (Well, not sure I am happy to know it, but…)
General Motors announced today they are buying out the union jobs in favor of low wage workforce. Safeway did away with living wage benefits in a strike settlement in Cakifornia a few years ago all the new young workers are on a lower scale and benefit package. With high cost of living only workers with good support systems will be employed. It is awful what big corporations are doing to the work force. With no disposable income the consumer economy will tsnk.
Both of them are millionaires aren’t they?
Well, youse all win todays’s coveted golden optimist trophy.
While I, on the other foot, shall have to content myself with the curmudgeon smudge-pot.
Geez…
That needs its own post!
Did you see the NYT article (a Sunday maybe a month ago) about Zambia? and the decision of the country to supply farmers with both fertilizer and seed. The impact was extraordinary. Rather than importing food for their population, they were exporting. World Bank, IMF had been pressing African countries to import grain, and to grow cotton etc for export, essentially bankrupting the country for our benefit. We really need a new nobel prize winning group of economists who will lay this crap to rest and begin to think of the social costs of economic policy.
Coal fired plants put large quantities of heavy metals into the environment…This recently received some attention because of the Federal judges who blocked the Bush Mercury “Standards”. About 50 tons of Mercury are introduced into the environment each year by coal fired power plants. When one considers the CO2, heavy metals and other bad shit that burning coal puts into the environment…Nukes don’t look so bad. Probably too late, however, to re-think our energy strategy. IMO, ball game is over.
Kirk … I don’t disagree and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone here saying “wow, so-and-so is fighting the corporations” so the question becomes what do we do now … and then what do we do whoever is in the White House?
I’m not sure I would describe Obama’s comments to the Hamilton crew quite as you would but I certainly agree he has not led on this issue. So … if he were to be elected, I figure I will continue to work to change the role of corporations. Which is the same thing I’ll do if Clinton is elected.
So let’s brainstorm ways people can act – whether it’s boycotts and in the streets, working with SRI funds and shareholder activists or something else.
Let’s get to work.
Actually, I’m a Realist, and, I think we’re at the chamber-pot stage… way past the torches and pitchforks…! 8-(
Yep – and the farmed salmon along the BC Coast have so fouled the estuaries and inshore waters with sea lice that wild runs are expected to perish over the next years unless the salmon farming is ended.
Thanks also for the observation on the ethanol plant – I’d love to know more about hte lack of scrubbers, etc.
The UK Indpendent (and George Monbiot) are also calling attention to the fact that agricultural biofules are an unmitigted disaster: for global warming and global food security.
Of course, our ambitious Dem Senators failed to filibuster ethanol subsidies.
Wonder if the Iowa caucuses had anything to do with their stalwart choices?
It’s not just the carbon release from burning, what about all the mountains being leveled for the coal…
Part of what we need to do in response is to support net neutrality so we can actually come to places like FDL to discuss things: http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..256/456371
Massey Coal is evil incarnate. If a town sits on a mountain it wants to level, it manipulates impoverished local governments to use emiminent domain to seize the town. Not many corps can boast about literally blowing up towns.
I doubt that the artificial color is harmful..the bad thing about farm raised Salmon is that they are fed a diet that is derived from indiscriminate netting of sea life. If you are going to eat farm raised fish, Tilapia is a good species because they are fed grain.
You are quite the incrementalist, Mr Tuttle. Under my plan, there will be no one for Medicare to negotiate with but itself! *g*
I don’t agree, MD.
I can appreciate anyone trying to be provacative. Nothing wrong with that. But to use the opportunity-privilege, really – of posting to smear, in my view, one of our presidential candidates and the likely nominee, I think is unhelpful. Even more so, when the chosen method is a carefully edited quote with the inconvenient stuff hitting the cutting room floor. In any event, I just can’t inderstand why we’re being subjected to such nickel-and – dime stuff about Obama being dressed up as legitimate criticism.
Good night pups.
STRUGGLE
Plus, apparently they have VERY high mercury levels. On pink (salmon) coloring, I remember readig somewhere that red food dyes are among the least beneficial.
I am hitting the sack too. See you all (too bad Kiddo has gone, otherwise I would ask for a cup a hot chocolate.
My question is are BO’s remarks to the Hamiltonian people realy that important? I guess by that I mean, do they tend to indicate that he’s any worse than anyone else running?
Does anyone think the [snip]ped parts of Obama’s speech contradict the point Kirk’s making? I read it all and I don’t.
Yes. Nader and others during the 50’s on had housewives reading labels becoming informed buyer.
Hey RIchmond! I’ll definitely agree on net neutrality – even if you did slam my beloved FT
(long plane rides and the weekend edition of FT are just meant for each other)
That was the dirtiest smoke stack that I have seen in years. Initially Ethanol plants were fired by natural gas; but since the cost of gas has gone up, they are burning coal. There must be an exemption in the law..Obama would know he is a big supporter of “Big Ethanol”
Itty-bitty steps… *g*
We have been paying for ten thousand years. The whole Fed, free market, banking, it is all a kabuki dance, the wealth is always held sacrosanct by the few who control its movement without regard to boundaries, they do what they want to do. Every now and then they give us something because we showed some hutzpa, some balls, and we are always the ones who pay for their fuck ups, that is what we are for in their minds, chattel, nothing more.
I don’t need to know about no stinkin’ fiscal policy, I just need to protect my kids from the results of their hubris, a tall order when the deck is stacked.
What do you do? he said, laugh on your way to the executioner, and don’t lose your humanity, unless it is of no value to you, then you can join the sycophants who lick the asses of the very people who would destroy them-dumb bastards.
Oops I spoke my mind.
Are you a protectionist Doc? Does it bother you that protective tarrifs can be used to hide inefficiency or profit gouging in domestic industry? How high are you prepared to see protective tarrifs go? In what industries and against what countries.
I don’t think that this is a simple or an all or nothing issue.
Siun, I take an ecologist’s view of “work” – I see a whole range of diverse poltical organisms working right now in the niches they occupy.
In my niche, forcing awareness of problems is the basis for the work.
Much of – most of – the advocacy for both/either corporatist Dem Senator asserts or implies that one of these ambitious pols is less in thrall to Wall Street, the megacorps, and the Washington Consensus than is their opponent.
My work tonight and in the future is continue to force awareness of the lack of action (in either Senator’s history) that would support the advocates’ fervent professions.
In the coming weeks, I’ll also be focusing closely on specific aspects of the Dem Senators’ use of their power as legislators on enviromental issues.
And I’m delighted that my work in this niche will be proceeding apace with the valuable work you outline and describe.
Yet I do not regard either effort as being of more or less intrinsic worth than the other.
TYhere is only one way to get the deby down take the money back from the ones who ripped it off. Yes a strong progressive tax including hedge funds. A balanced budget down the road a bit.
There is only one to get the debt down…take the money back from the ones that ripped it off.
Blub, thanks so much for calling attention to Massey.
They are every bit as evil as you point out.
The fact that direct action enviros (EarthFirst! – the folks who keep the dirty in DFH) AND locals…(many of whom work or have loved ones working in the mines) have come together in Mountain Justice Summer and other campaigns is one of the few encouraging developments I’ve seen in eco-defense.
And as winter moves on to a spring of little hope, we sorely need the encouragement – and the wins.
rw, you are correct this is not an all or nothing issue.
That is precisely the problem with the “free” trade pacts hewed out by the Washington Consensus: they offer all the real power in the agreement to protecting global capital, and provide nothing in the way of real power to protect workers, communiites, or the living wealth which is our biosphere.
So I’m glad we are in agreement on the corrosive natue of “all or nothing” trade policies.
The canard that simply challenging the Consensus’ corporatist “free” trade treaties makes one a protectionist is amusing, though tiresome. (Though still a popular slur among the corporatists).
Outside of the corporatists’ slogans, fair trade advocates suggest global trade pacts that recognize the full costs of production (environmental destruction, workplace safety, living wages) and mandate surcharges for prodcuers who subsidize artifically low-cost exports by extternalizinng costs in the above three areas.
But thanks for giving me the cahnce to see my old sparring partner the “protectionist” canard without any chemical weapons in the air.
Poor old thing – it must hungry. Let’s retire it and turn it our to eat slugs.
After all these years, I’m sure the canard would love the chance to finally do something useful.
Good sleep to SanderO, Richmond, ok/lahoma, and other sleepy pups.
Thanks to Siun and everyone else who joined in productive discussion this evening – and thanks for your time and energy.
Now off to cook some dinner!
Of the ‘remaining two’choices, many here have determined that Obama may be ‘least-worst’ and, remote possibility that it is, might be ‘educable’. In that sense, he is the ‘best’ we can hope for. But perhaps you’ve already seen my comment about ‘hope-i-ness’ and can extrapolate how much ‘less’ than what our times desperately need I consider both ‘candidates’ likely to be.
It all depends on the definition of ‘is’ don’t ya know?
Great post, Kirk. One of many (and of those yet to come).
Profound thanks for raising consciousness and fomenting serious debate.
i started to go on to the next post, and just couldn’t……
free trade
google it, look it up, do whatever you have to do to understand what it means.
golly, people, i really don’t understand why you won’t.
it’s kinda the thing that may rock your world, yet you use platitudes instead of finding out what it means in your world.
i fought for things like this, it’s what made me give up on it all, CUZ PEOPLE JUST DON’T GIVE A SHIT about it.
for 20 years i’ve been trying to inform people, and i am more convinced than ever now, is a non-issue.
so, go ahead and tell me who you think would make the next candidacy, but until you can tell me who is for or against free trade, not much to say in my book.
Watching all the bubbles from the 80’s on… I saw CREATIVE FINANCE making up financial instruments for trade that were secured by balance sheet that were perpetually being restated marking down the corporayions stock value. The small investors unlike the hedge funds and investment banks who did the deals got soaked for the cost of the profits.
The Unions, Pension funds, local government retirement funds paid dearly.
Then the offshore tax exempt entities like Enron used to dodge the taxes. There were the Boeskies, Keatings and Silverado (Neil Bush) that were either bailed out by the taxpayers (Resolution Trust Fund supposedly a greayt idea now defunct) or left holding worthless junk bonds.
I have watched three decades of Free Market ripoff…I am so fucking pissed off that American citizens are being skinned by corporate fraud I am sick. Thw scam is so obvious. The Ivy league grpup that stasrted hedge funds on Investment Bank loans lost trillions of investor money and walked eith carloads of profit. Sarbane-Oxley unlocked the door to more money vaults that were raided
Now the government is shipping PALLETS of hundred dollar bills to Iraq with no accounting. Sole sourcing your tax dollars to Bush cronys.
Please no more think tanks. Back to the basics. Save some money America. Control your shopping habits see a therapist. Looney @#$%ing tunes
Sander0 speaks my language. Far more so than the centrist accomodators who make up most of the liberal blogosphere. We can’t achieve what he wants, but it should be our aim.
As for Obama, well, his worshippers are not reality based, so a dose of reality will not help, but “change” is just a buzzword for a slick pol, not something he actually intends to do.
deeemac;
I’ve much sympathy for your frustration. Lo on forty years I’ve been trying to get folks, including some verra intelligent ones to at least consider the obvious lack of substance in our economic system. Its based on plunder, pillage and ‘pound them’ (whomever, countries which dare to seek to protect their resources from our avarice or working folks all over the world who are enslaved to sate our bloated appetites). ‘Free Enterprise’has been deliberately confused with ‘Democracy’ until both are considered one and the same. In fact, Capitalism, as practiced today, is quite inimical to democracy, as any honest economist must know. It is also destructive of the capacity of the planet to support human life.
What more should any thoughtful conscience-carrying human being need to know?
But the ‘dirty’ is at such an intentional ‘remove’ as to be invisible for those who would not wish to look very hard, at themselves, their ‘life-styles’ or the foreign and domestic ‘policies’ which afford them such ‘comfortable’ and ‘easy’ lives.
The point isn’t that he is any worse, but that he isn’t the saviour of the American left, the dreamy mix of MLK, FDR and Jeebus that he’s made out to be by some of his supporters.
big brother at 205
thank you for hearing me, i just sent kirk an email how noone paid attention to anything i said………..
listen up people, free trade is a big deal, influences ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in you lives. and noone listens.
20 years ago i took up this fight, and 20 years later, noone gives a shit.
my dad was a corporate accountant, an honest one, i learned from the best, people better pay attention to it.
i do.
and noone is comparing candidates on it………….
and it is THE MOST IMPORATANT ISSUE that is in this election, and they won’t face it……….
cuz obama is the rage, ask him what he things about free trade, well, kirk already told you……..
still doesn’t matter, huh? ok, i’ll go into 20 more years of tellin’ ya…..to pay attention. to free trade.
it rules everything and people don’t wanna know. i’m done with it, really i am.
I love it when you talk dirty! It’s so CLEANSING!
*G*
You help to cope with a decidedly less than half full glass of hope.
*G*
That is a derivitive CDO based on a mortgage with negative equity. The Investment Bank is called for their margin requirement drawing more capital away from the economy which cannnot expand (Growth)
A piece of paper was sold by investment bank touted as undervalued. It had no value unless the real estate increased in value. Yhe investor was wiped out, The bank who bet on the come line had to sell part of itself to have the capital to stay in business legally.
They went to the Suadis who were holding a lot of corporate paper to save it. Bushes trip to the Middle East was about just that.
Warren Buffet backed $800 billion worth of bond indemnity yesterday rescuing the market again.
This is a daily fight to keep corporate America solvent. Tjey will have to compromise with the next administration. We have to move from the free market to the regulated SEC market. Bush has industry regulating itself. They get in their own way with the competition. The years of leveraged buyout since the Ford administration (Simon) has taken us back to the vertical trust environment. It is tettering of it’s own weight. It is to big to manage. Pac tel and the baby bells got reunited and the conglomerates keep growing as the Investment banks are addicted to the big deals and the Corps need the capital.
Free trade has been usurped and corrupted long ago by Reaganomics, and before that, by the MIA, etc.
Free trade TODAY means NAFTA.
And we all know, that ain’t free trade, and the jive ass rhetoric of ‘free trade’ as bandied about by corporatists is just a euphemism for WE GONNA STEAL THE MASSES ASSES BLIND!
*G*
But Cap’n Kirk Murph DOES raise a MOST excellent point . . . we lost all our progressive representation potential cuz MSM and The Corporate Board Of Directors shut them out early on (Kuch/Edwards).
N now, here we are, in yet ANOTHER election, ANOTHER primary, holding our nose’s with fingers in each nostril, to vote for a lesser evil. And the same when the General rolls around.
Another FINE mess you got us into, Ollie! *G*
Decade, after decade, after decade. It’s the same thing.
When will we ever learn?
Won’t get fooled again, by all them flowers that have gone!
When WILL we ever learn?
Excellent comments, here at the ‘end’. Hope dmac comes back. Bigbrother, you are on a ‘roll’ and I appreciate everything you say.
This thread deserves to ‘live’ a bit longer.
Larue, as you suggest the ‘answer’ is blowing in the winds of time.
The question for our species is; how much time have we left, before our self-constructed hell breaks loose with a vengence.?
Looks like America may soon get a most serious ‘test’. With mother nature supplying the ‘lessons’ afterwards.
dw bartpp-
i would not normally release this type of comment, this is what i emailed to kirk in disgust.
i have emitted/edited a few things……….but, i am sick to death of people who SAY they don’t agree with the things that go on in government, yet, the things i have SEEN go on are not so important, yet they affect the everyday lives of all, and nooone pays attention to them……..makes me want to retch.
so, here’s the email, i kinda thing kirk won’t care that i posted it.
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oh no, i didn’t feel slighted by you, kirk, just that my arguments are based in knowledge not only from my personal experience, which was hard-won, but from my corporate accountant father…..he worked for champion international paper company…..he was in charge of the white paper division of north america of champion international paper company….he was a big cheese…ok, take that in for a minute……….all of the white paper division……..that includes milk cartons and printer paper……….it was a big deal.
he taught me to pay attention to what corporations are doing……….not what they do, but what they are doing……..
a fine man……..
and encouraged me to be involved in my union,cwa communications workers of america, used to be a strong voice………..and he, a corporate accountant, encouraged me to be involved in my union. i was a steward, and one of four representatives on the safety commitee…….
and every year, at our training once a year ,at the university of kentucky, among other things, my union would show a film on what was going on around the world when it came to labor…….and i was appalled…….and would talk about it with my parents, and dad would explain how corporations work…….and next year i would would see another film, and he would remind me that laws in the us allowed it…….and i would watch another film, and he would say, that’s how things are, the power of corporations that run this country can’t overrule how people are treated.
and i would want to retch. but that was reality, how you gonna deal with it?
my dad, the corporate accountant, would remind me to keep in mind what i had learned, and use it when the time came.
he taught me the things i am talking about.
i think sometimes that you ’ecoterroists’ don’t keep in mind what has come before you, that you don’t remember the things that came before you, how important they were……….
i remember the fight about free trade, and as i have said before, i am not an activist person, but this thing i do remember being involved in………….oh, i do………..and now, all of the things that have become of it?
d
EPU territory but what the hell…
This post is why I was for Edwards. Basically we are in a big pickle what with the war debt and the credit crisis and the fact that we no longer manufacture much of anything anymore.
So how are we going to bring America back from the brink? We need very bold policies. Bold policies like universal healthcare without insurance companies. That is Edwards. Now mind you he might not have been able to achieve that because Congress has to pass it, but at least he was talking about it. The two remaining candidates, not so much.
From the beginning I felt like there were no bold ideas that could really help the United States get back on her feet from Obama or Hillary.
I hope I am proven wrong. We need courage and BOLD ideas. Not recycled ideas from the Clinton Administration. We are way past that with all the damage Bush has done to our country in the last 7 years.
Democrats. Don’t take us for granted. We need bold ideas to fix this mess. Oh and while you are at it, can you stop the NSA from spying on us unconstitutionally? Thanks.
Thank you, dmac for sharing that very honest history and reality. I truly appreciate your efforts and am certain your father would agree that you have honored both his courage and insight as well as the burden and responsibility he so clearly bequeathed you.
Your perspective and critically important vision will someday be appreciated for what it is. Hopefully, in time, so that all our collective efforts shall not have been in vain.
MsAnna;
OT: I have just recently returned from an interesting and sobering visit to your fair city. We saw the future -springtime was there; the magnolia in blossom and trees a-bud (returned to Pennsylvania’s snow and brutal cold)but, as goes New Orleans, and it is going, so goes the nation…
thanks dw, i have never taken for granted the views i learned at our dinner table.
it was quite an education.
Dmac you were very fortunate in having such a man as your father and we here are very fortunate in having you to pass along that education and prick our conscience in the bargain.
dw-i just read your earlier comment that i missed, am getting ready to go out of town, so am trying to get the points of this post in a run……….
you got it……….free trade is an access to pillage, and most don’t understand what it really means……how it affects their pocktbooks, the economy and the world………..just don’t get it, nor do they want to…….yet it is a simple thing that anyone can understand…….only thing is, it is buried in platitudes so people won’t WANT to understand it……..yet they can, simply,
obama is a free trader, and noone is mentioning it at all, that worries me. a lot.
check back later, have to go see the sleeping fog.
thank you.
Rather than Wake me Up when September ends its now going to be Wake me Up when November Ends.
The more I try to fight it the more I think that both of them are more of the same, and that same does not diverge much from what we already have (yes, to some degree it does, but these folks behind the scene and these leaders all hang out and think the same thoughts).
As for nobody mentioning that Clinton or Obama are free traders its clear they are, Edwards noted it (and was one in the past), we all know it – its just that Democratic activists did not want to talk about it much. Its all about who is a racist or who is a mysoginist (so if you talk about their policy the homers will call you one of those).
The whole market meme is flawed but no one wants to think about the losers in competition, they just want to be on the winning side
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Its worse than that, they want to make, manipulate, and selectivly enfore the rules/laws so they can take money from people – the more sophisticated it gets the more people they allow to take fake (electronic) money as debt gets passed to a loser (or the loser of last resort – the consumer or tax payer).
Some of that, then, will end up manifesting itself in the sort of nativist sentiment, protectionism, and anti-immigration sentiment that we are debating here in Washington. So there are real consequences to the work that is being done here. This is not a bloodless process. – Obama
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Sounds kinda like “we should steal the money slowly” to avoid riots in the people that are bled by the vampires.
What do you want to bet any Washington bailout of FORD MOTOR COMPANY will require the union workers to cut back wages and benefits?
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American Airlines had all their people cut wages, do their little bankrupcy dance, then no wages go up – but executives start getting many multi-million bonuses. How is that for a chesnut, give up your wages & bennies to pay a CEO millions bonus (with a million or so going to grease Congress).
Thanks for the UN_EDITED version. It seems some here have their own agenda on how we are to perceive Obama.
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No offense but you are missing the entire point – both candidates are (saying they are going to be) doing the same thing.
When Clinton boosters get all up in arms about something that she does that is clearly right (or far right) of progressive (or even mainstream) its because the Obama supporters are stupid or mean. Same in the other direction.
I would actually say the full quote from Obama is worse.
For balance, you should have mentioned his much more recent (today) progressive speech on trade.
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Or Clinton speaking heart-felt when talking about the 80% (the losers, lots of us). I would like to hear more about the Obama speech (watch it) – but I think the point was to take something that both candidates could be compared directly on – which to me makes it a great post.
No membership of these exlusive clubs is not all bad. For instance the CRF, the Executive, etc and “private & secret” clubs like this have a lot of even more scary people running around. These folks do have to join the fray – but it seems to me that they will be more of appeasers than anything. It will be up to them to change to conversation, enlighten some folks, show up and present contrary views…but will they?