Zed!

Jane!

Jane:

Can you do me a favor? Are you getting all the sleep you need? All the food you need? Are you taking care of yourself? Please say yes to all these questions. And please be honest…

So, is Firedoglake planning another Connecticut invasion?

This is perfect. The one audience the Dems have the toughest time reaching is the sports-talk-radio demographic: 18-49-year-old white males.

She’s the Energizer Bunny this week, isn’t she?

Shays-zam

I signed up to volunteer for Himes, from nearby NYC.

However, I haven’t a clue as to what all this sports stuff means. Seems like I got in over my head.

man oh man oh man

we don’t have time to investigate lying this country into war, killing thousands of Americans, wounding tens of thousands, killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s and leaving the families of our brave to morn for the rest of their lives, leaving the families of the dead Iraqi’s to lament in a newly delivered vile hatred for our country and her people that will live for generations

and our legislators are investigating friggin sports cheats

what the FRIG is wrong with these friggin politicians

I cannot believe I held hope when we obtained majorities in BOTH houses

I cannot believe I THOUGHT we might reclaim this once noble republic

Biodun, left a comment backthread.

If you live in the New York area and listen to Mike and the Mad Dog (Chris Russo) on WFAN you know that they’re dumb, really dumb. That said, they’re not any dumber than the rest of the New York media (especially the hacks over at the editorial page of the New York Times). I don’t know (or care) whether Roger Clemons is lying, but I’d sure love to get rid of Chris Shays.

Who is this Marla KO was talking about who debated Karl Rove on gay marriage and kicked his @$$ I only saw part of it?

It’s an election year. We’re in a war. The economy if tankin. What to do? Let’s investigate drug use among fuckin baseball players- that’s the ticket.

Professional sports are exactly like economics — all statistics, structured competition, some cheating, and no regard for how much it costs the consumer. You’ll catch on right away.

Why is congress even involved in sports? Can’t they “police” themselves.. the leagues.

This is a waste of the people’s money.

I want congress to do the work of the people, not the commissioner of for profit baseball.

I have nothing against sports, but I do against sports subsidized by the people as they are in this country.

Capitalism did it.

Lahoma and I are not particularly fond of Mr. Shays. He is not one of our faves.

OT

Will there be an October surprise this year?

Shays loves some Erik Prince real bad.

rwcole, You are absolutely right but I must admit that I watched it online. It was strangely partisan and I had to wonder if Roger was handing out autographed baseballs to the Republican members of the committee.

But economics is interesting & sports are boring. Economics is about matter that influence real people’s real lives. Sports are about tribablism.

you know I’ve been talking about one…if it looks like mccain can’t win.

if it looks close they might think they can fix the machines enough to win and we might be safe

I cannot believe they have amassed all this power for obama

me noah believe they would ever do something like that

You betcha, Shrub imposing martial law and implementing COG…

GW Clusterfuck will be the next commish of baseball. That’ll fix up the sport!

Throw em one of the fastballs that earned ya a spot on the bench of the Yale University baseball team ya little loser!

Try to imagine another eight years of Republicans in the White House. McCain or Huckabee it is felt are potentially even worse than George W. Bush. Something must be done about these rascals. Time to unite?

OT - KO is talking about FISA. Right now.

I want justice. That’s all.

To give you a serious answer to your first Q. No sports can police themselves because they’re monopolies. Now if there were multiple teams in a given area (as I heard there are for soccer teams in some UK cities), that might be different.

Rachel Maddow thought they were violating ehthics rules for accepting them…

She accidentally put some drug (crack?) into an ATM machine and, of course, got busted for it.

Apparently this is newsworthy on national television.

Economics is playing real games with you financial reality. Sports are escapism from regular reality, everyone needs a break I like reading and video games.

We are watching this, while playing cards. ;0)

I like reading & clearing brush (which I do while listening to books on tape).

High School student at Choate Rosemary Hall in Wallingford, CT (JFK’s alma mater). IIRC her name is Marla Spivak. Rove was initially invited to be the commencement speaker but the students rebelled.

George W. Bush is an unconvicted felon. Turley is doing the job on Olbermann.

Actually sports is often very illuminating. And, tribalism? Not so sure, about that one, sports often are key unifiers.

Turley says the fix is in.

pardon my OT…but i am just Totally flabergasted by Insane McCain voting for torture…guess the his Vietnamese captors were kinder to him,then we would be to them…adjust your minsets everyone

Turley is blasting HRC for not showing up for the vote on FISA.

Unifiers against a common enemy.

so I’m in the locker room today in lawn guyland and i hear some guys talking about why they are afraid of mcciain…because he was tortured and might be a little weak kneed, but they would never vote for obama…did not even think to include hillary in the conversation

so I ask them what the frig they are talking about, they are planning on voting for a man that thinks this president’s policies are a GOOD thing

and while they all agreed bush “fucked up”, they think we can’t leave Iraq “until we win”

so I ask them;

“what does that mean, what is ‘winning?”

“when they have their own police and their own army and there are no terrorists”

“but there will always be terrorists, terrorism is a strategy not an enemy, we left viet nam when everyone said the same thing and leaving viet nam was better then staying, staying here is worse then staying in viet nam”

“but we can’t leave until we win”

not a fun conversation, mostly because I think we are in a bubble, where we think all normal people know and think what we know and think

but normal people don’t all think nor know what we know, we are in a bubble, i don’t think this election is gonna be as easy as we are led to believe

Olbermann blasting Harry Reid. As is Turley.

“Hard to walk the cat backwards” 8-(

Precisely.

Marla kicked Rove hard that is either one good school…or Bush’s Brain is just not that bright. Hmm I’m guessing both A and B?

I’ve had conversations like that.

Reid and Pelosi. Profiles in what?

no offense meant,but have these peeps recieved tennis racket head shots or sumtin….dea not to smart

Oh, shit, eCAHN, it never occured to me that your country home was in Texas.

From yesterday’s Hartford Courant Page 2

Then there was Marla Spivak.

Spivak, a senior from Hamden, was one of the students invited to have lunch earlier with Rove. That left her somewhat emboldened as she stood before the crowd and asked Rove to explain how giving gay people the right to marry would endanger other people.

Rove took issue with the way the first gay marriages came about, through the Massachusetts Supreme Court. An issue as important as the definition of marriage should be resolved by a legislature or a referendum, not a court, he said.

Gay couples could gain the legal rights of married couples through legislation without actually getting married, he said.

But wouldn’t creating a separate body of legislation for gay people be creating a separate but equal system, a step back?, Spivak asked.

Rove replied with an answer about Mormons changing their views on marriage to conform with the nation’s laws.

Spivak kept pressing. “You never actually answered, how does it threaten anyone?” she asked.

Rove asked, what’s the compelling reason to throw out 5,000 years of understanding the institution of marriage as between a man and a woman?

What, Spivak countered, was the compelling reason for society to allow interracial relationships when they had once been outlawed.

Then Rove invoked the Declaration of Independence before Spivak interjected that its reference to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” seemed to support her claims.

Their verbal pingpong match tapered off after Rove brought up polygamy and Spivak acknowledged that she did not know enough about polygamy to answer. Rove later asked when she planned to run for political office.

Heh, teach ‘em young I says…!

also at work, while everyone is certain bush is responsible for all that is wrong in the world today, they still can’t bring themselves to vote for a democrat

I am in a bubble

Shoot, I never thought of it that way but you’re right.

OH!

Hey. Everything is cool. I’ve been stimulated with the rebate package.

Ignoring War Crimes?

I see FDL on the Himes frontpage as well. Go Jim and Maura! We got yer backs!

I can’t take it. I’m going back to being beaten at cards by my lady. It’s more fun.

Americans are pretty uninformed and don’t think critically. They are fact challenged and media pap bloated.

That’s why issues are not as important as “impression”. Obi seems vital and a leader. Doesn’t matter to most what his policies are in detail. They want things to turn around.

How about this. Polls look very good for the dems and the Bushies do another terra attack and claim that AQ was signaling that they are back in biz with the slacker dems on the way. Marshall law - not elections until AQ is toast. Bush hands the con to McCain who attacks Iran and Pakistan.

hey!

that’s right, i am going to get some 6 hundred bucks or something mailed to me

I think I’m gonna vote me some more bush, that 6 hundred bucks is gonna come in handy buying me some heat for a month

It isn’t.
I know people in Virginia who voted for Obama just because they know McCain has a lock on the nomination. They will vote for McCain in the general election, they say.
How will that effect the final outcome, I wonder?

and Kinda Sleazy trying to plead her case against war crimes sounds like Lady Macbeth trying to wash 10billion gallons of blood off her hands..she is quite EVIL

Yep. It’s the only think I have in common with W.

Just to clarify, though, you can find dead wood in every state.

Someone in the letters to the editor in the SacBee said they were giving their $600 to the dems.

you know, I think I am becomming numb to what looks like good news, I keep getting kicked in the head when we start something and then cave

anyway, think progress right now;

Conyers introduces Miers/Bolten contempt resolutions. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, introduced a criminal contempt resolution today against White House chief of staff Josh Bolten and former White House counsel Harriet Miers, who were subpoenaed in the U.S. attorney scandal, but refused to comply. Conyers also filed a resolution for Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to file a civil suit against the White House. Read the resolutions here

A & B would be a good guess

OKK:

Reid and Pelosi. Profiles in what?

PROFILES IN MUSH

I can’t bring myself to vote republican.

Marshall law

Martial Law, see my 22!

You’re not supposed to do the stimulation thing until you get the money. Read the memo.

Sign ‘em up for BlueAmerica.

I said that on my car forum, someone asked what we would do with the money, everyone said what “mod” they were gonna get for the car

I said;

“I will give it to whichever person is running against the party that frigged this country up”

and then the spark flew high and hot

WTF was Rove doing on “Scarface the Nation” with Bob Schieffer last week?!? Obama has historic wins, and Bob leads with 15 minutes of Mike Applebee’s live then goes to Rove live for most of the remaining time (a little Joe Trippi as a nightcap)! What a joke. (Of course Meet the Russert leads with Applebee’s for the first half hour as well).

Anyone who puts Rove, a traitor of the highest magnitude for knowingly outing an undercover CIA agent, on-air as a respected “expert” should get called out, and I mean hard. Damn, that shit ticks me off.

I’m going to take my stimulus and stimulate some mo’betta dem candidates with it.

ecahn(and anyone else)

i left you a story about the sexism thing at 205 in the last thread

I had seen the story you referenced at CNN but didn’t read it so didn’t know the name but did remember the Courant story from yesterday.

Do I think drugs in sports are bad? Yes, I think drugs are bad for kids, teens, most adults. Instead of going after the sports figures for taking steroids or other enhancement drugs, let’s go after the countless corporations making these drugs and throwing them out on the market with no accountability. So, let’s REGULATE drug companies and disclose ALL the negatives connected with a drug either taken alone or in combination.

But I’ll bet the boys had fun talking with Roger today. Otherwise, Roger would never talk with them.

Damm! The Kids logic is simple direct and on point no matter how much Karl tried to weasel.
Karl tried the distract them with the bring up every off topic reference you can think of defense (part of the Baffle them with Bullshit Tactics of Debate). But to no avail, we need her to moderate all the debates:)

lol Mike and the Mad Dog sounds like some FDLers when Shays was giving some loving oversight to Prince.

when the democrats are in power too long and become as corrupt as the republicans are right now, you bet I will vote them out of office, if that means voting for a republican that’s what I’ll do

the republicans are corrupt because they’ve had absolute power, they are absolutely corrupted

that’s a saying I wish I wrote but I didn’t

when the democrats have absolute power they will also be absolutely corrupt

a case in point

maddam speaker

Reminder… Noriega Dem primary debate coming up in a few minutes.

I was thinking about the Clemens hearing…we have bigger fish to fry…why is Waxman, one of our big hitters, pitching to Clemens when we have a Vice president that shoots people in the face starts wars by lying and misleading congress, outing one of our spy programs and torturing prisoners of war (ya know the war on terror).. well Randi Rhodes is discussing the same on Air America this afternoon with a caller. WTF Would someone please help me out on our game plan?

I think your right, Perris. And don’t forget, if Hillary loses there will be lots of alienated women who think that in part it’s because the press treated her so shabbily while Obama supporters looked on quietly. My guess is that the demographics of FDL readers don’t really match the demographics of the country or even of the democratic party. Alot of the working class women who support Hillary will take stock of what has happened in the nominating process. They may decide that Senator Obama’s a smart decent man who deserves a shot and then vote for him. They may decide to do what working people, men and women have been doing for 20 years, that is give the republican a long, hard look.

I think people vote on issues and they also vote on gut instinct. There are alot of people on the left and right who don’t like Hillary. We certainly know that for sure. You may find that just because Senator Obama connects with the college educated crowd that reads this blog, he doesn’t necessarily connect with the voters in the four or five states (FL, OH, PA NM, GA, TX, etc.) whose elctoral votes will actually decide this election.

As you say, FDL readers may find they live in a bubble.

God, I’m glad to see this, but Francesa and Russo are such arrogant, self-important assholes. They’re doing this because they’re Yankee fans.

Another great story.

(((deeeeemac)))

And so McCain votes against torture ban?

How about beer and all the drunk driving these kids do?

Reid and Pelosi. Profiles in what?

I now understand what a big deal Profiles in Courage was. Still a rare commodity in Washington DC. Come to think of it, perhaps the problem is just that — it IS a commodity in Washington DC . . .

See I was picturing it near Woodstock!

She’s a slacker not much power there. If she had power she could get something done as she said she would.

Sports hearings. Bread and circuses. Shiny objects.

We have bigger fish to fry.

we have a Vice president that shoots people in the face starts wars by lying and misleading congress, outing one of our spy programs and torturing prisoners of war (ya know the war on terror)

I will take every oportunity to tell this story time and time again

“Last Friday, in Moscow, we witnessed the beginning of the end of that era which began in 1945. With this step, we have enhanced the security of both nations. We have begun to reduce the level of fear, by reducing the causes of fear—for our two peoples, and for all peoples in the world.”
But Nixon left amid scandal and Ford came in, and Ford’s Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) and Chief of Staff (Dick Cheney) believed it was intolerable that Americans might no longer be bound by fear. Without fear, how could Americans be manipulated? And how could billions of dollars taken as taxes from average working people be transferred to the companies that Rumsfeld and Cheney - and their cronies - would soon work for and/or run?

Rumsfeld and Cheney began a concerted effort - first secretly and then openly - to undermine Nixon’s treaty for peace and to rebuild the state of fear.

They did it by claiming that the Soviets had a new secret weapon of mass destruction that the president didn’t know about, that the CIA didn’t know about, that nobody knew about but them. It was a nuclear submarine technology that was undetectable by current American technology. And, they said, because of this and related-undetectable-technology weapons, the US must redirect billions of dollars away from domestic programs and instead give the money to defense contractors for whom these two men would one day work or have businesses relationships with.

The CIA strongly disagreed, calling Rumsfeld’s position a “complete fiction” and pointing out that the Soviet Union was disintegrating from within, could barely afford to feed their own people, and would collapse within a decade or two if simply left alone.

that’s right, that’s what they do, that story was told BEFORE we attacked Iraq

WHAT THE FRIG?

congress then let these maggots do it again, and then cheney tried yet again in Iran…that might STILL happen too

Reid and Pelosi. Profiles in what?

Pusillanimity?

Or not, as in golf, tennis, horseback jumping. And, related to sports we can’t underestimate how important Tiger Woods was in preparing US voters for someone like Obama.

if you ahve not read that link I posted on 91, please read it, it will make your head explode

25 miles south of Woodstock, NY. Near here:
http://www.mohonkpreserve.org/

As you say, FDL readers may find they live in a bubble.

I’ll give you credit for persistence, WigWag! It is getting rather tedious tho…

You may find that just because Senator Obama connects with the college educated crowd that reads this blog, he doesn’t necessarily connect with the voters in the four or five states (FL, OH, PA NM, GA, TX, etc.) whose elctoral votes will actually decide this election.

Interesting, where did you get that data from?

I thought we were talking about team sports. The ones you list are individual. Them’s the kind for me, but doing, not watch.

Good point about Tiger Woods & Obama. Hadn’t put those together.

And team sports were integrated before many other areas in the U.S. Gee, I begin to see some value!

Either Obama or Clinton can beat McCain; both candidates have demonstrated that they are strong campaigners, and McCain is basically running on a more-of-the-same, Bush third term, 100 years of war platform. That means that we should pick the candidate we prefer. I prefer Obama, some of you prefer Clinton. I can respect that.

well, there’s a new post up but I don’t have the energy to read it so I’m staying down here

anyway, more on that article I linked to, look at all the same names…this is mind boggling;

“They couldn’t say that the Soviets had acoustic means of picking up American submarines, because they couldn’t find it. So they said, well maybe they have a non-acoustic means of making our submarine fleet vulnerable. But there was no evidence that they had a non-acoustic system. They’re saying, ‘we can’t find evidence that they’re doing it the way that everyone thinks they’re doing it, so they must be doing it a different way. We don’t know what that different way is, but they must be doing it.’
“INTERVIEWER (off-camera): Even though there was no evidence.

“CAHN: Even though there was no evidence.

“INTERVIEWER: So they’re saying there, that the fact that the weapon doesn’t exist…

“CAHN: Doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. It just means that we haven’t found it.”

But Rumsfeld and Cheney wanted Americans to believe there was something nefarious going on, something we should be very afraid of. To this end, they convinced President Ford to appoint a commission including their old friend Paul Wolfowitz to prove that the Soviets were up to no good.

Wolfowitz’s group, known as “Team B,” came to the conclusion that the Soviets had developed several terrifying new weapons of mass destruction, featuring a nuclear-armed submarine fleet that used a sonar system that didn’t depend on sound and was, thus, undetectable with our current technology. It could - within a matter of months - be off the coast of New York City with a nuclear warhead.

Although Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld’s assertions of this powerful new Soviet WMD was unproven - they said the lack of proof proved the “undetectable” sub existed - they nonetheless used their charges to push for dramatic escalations in military spending to selected defense contractors, a process that continued through the Reagan administration.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz helped re-organized a group - The Committee on the Present Danger - to promote their worldview. The Committee produced documentaries, publications, and provided guests for national talk shows and news reports. They worked hard to whip up fear and encourage increases in defense spending, particularly for sophisticated weapons systems offered by the defense contractors for whom many of these same men would later become lobbyists.

And they succeeded in recreating an atmosphere of fear in the United States, and making themselves and their defense contractor friends richer than most of the kingdoms of the world.

Trillions of dollars and years later, it was proven that they had been wrong all along, and the CIA had been right. Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Wolfowitz lied to America in the 1970s about Soviet WMDs and the Soviet super-sub technology.

Not only do we now know that the Soviets didn’t have any new and impressive WMDs, but we also now know that the Soviets were, in fact, decaying from within, ripe for collapse any time, regardless of what the US did - just as the CIA (and anybody who visited Soviet states - as I had - during that time could easily predict). The Soviet economic and political system wasn’t working, and their military was disintegrating.

But the Cold War was good for business, and good for the political power of its advocates, from Rumsfeld to Wolfowitz to Cheney who have all become rich in part because of the arms industry.

You bet. The enhancement drugs witch hunt isn’t about “doing the right thing”. It is totally about distraction and straw dogs so they don’t have to investigate th real criminals for real crimes.

Never will they investigate the drug companies. No way. They’ll select one scapegoat company they’re willing to sacrifice and let the big corporations off the hook. It’s the same pattern over and over.

Great area, I used to live around there over on the Conn. side. I love visiting Stormking :D

hillary lost a 30 percentage lead to obama, I wonder if she can blow the campaign against mccain

I have no love for either of these candidates, I cannot believe we are fielding the choices that the republicans wanted us to field

we are playing schoolyard puch ball, we are choosing sides and we are letting the oposing team tell us who we will pick

it’s friggin bizarre

there is something i have been wondering for a while, yet haven’t pursued yet—-

where is the nfl in this?

you know, the meat-necked pumped-up players on the gridiron?

do they test?

be back later for the answer.
in and out tonight.

driving home, going to bed…g’night all

Thanks for the reminder. That comment just sounded a little like some Mark “I heard two people say” Penn.

Damn, I love these big words. Your forceful elequence pretty well covers it. Hello to Georgia. Just for you. ;0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thls_tMuFkc

I have no data. I don’t have any facts about the demograpics of the average FDL reader and I don’t have any personal knowledge over who voted for either candidate beyond what the news media reports from the exit polls. This is all just my surmise and I could be completely wrong.

In response to Perris’ comment that FDL readers may be in a bubble (his words). I was merely pointing out that it has been reported that in general, college educated people (including women) have tended to support Senator Obama and working class white and Latino women have tended to support Senator Clinton.

I do think its factual to say that since about 1968 the number of states in play for the most critical electoral votes is relatively small. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, maybe Georgia and perhaps a few others have been critical. I think it’s also factual to say that working class people, who should be natural democrats, have been shopping their votes since the 1960’s. So I think that Perris is right, anyone who thinks this election will be a slam dunk for either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama is deluding themselves.

I really think this was a watershed day in the 2008 election.

Today was the day that the general public saw how the GOP behaves when in power. But more importantly, it was done using a frame of reference that the average joe understands: sports. (Remember the NASCAR vote?)

Today was the day that the guys watching ESPN or listening to talk radio heard the GOP rally en masse to support a liar (Roger Clemens).

Chris ”Mad Dog” Russo is a very, very conservative guy. So when he speaks up against Shays and the GOP, it carries much, much weight with the male voting public.

I would have never imagined the day when Russo and Francesa would have woken up like this and spoke out so loudly against the GOP.

Today was the day Chris Shays lost his seat. It was that big of a deal.

So sorry to be boring you. My advice, when you see “WigWag” at the top of the post, move on to the other scintillating commentary you can find here. By the way, thank you for your kind words about my persistence.

ecahn at 84-thanks, ecahn, i’m kinda proud of that story.

and wanted to mention for a while now, i’ve been where your country house is……….my dad used to have to work up there, well, not there, but within traveling distance, and mom went sometimes, and i got to go once….we took the bus into new york, and i ate at the algonquin, and the pen and pencil, etc, we were treated as queens, was wonderful……so, i’ve been there……..and there was a bar that had a bar made of the most beautiful wood, wonderful place, can’t remember how many places would fit that description, but find it hard that there are many, we watched ira joe fisher on the tv for the weather……..he had been in cincinnati and he grew on us…….he wrote backwards……..nice guy……..

nice town.

Describing cowardice without the gauntlet…like Velvet Underground

More so Oprah who has charmed audiences for years. She is far more a leader than Tiger who have great affection for as a consummate athlete although he speaks to the consrvative.

Send a loved one a GOP Valentine’s Card. For added fun, use Joe@lieberman.senate.gov for the return address instead of yours.

the only thing we have to fear is fear itself…FDR

I’m giving mine away to some org locally that helps out recent immigrants, a food bank, and maybe Doctors Without Borders. Hard to choose. So many worthier causes than me.

Who is Mad Dog? Who is Shays? Who cares?

I was thinking about the Clemens hearing…we have bigger fish to fry…why is Waxman, one of our big hitters, pitching to Clemens when we have a Vice president that shoots people in the face starts wars by lying and misleading congress, outing one of our spy programs and torturing prisoners of war (ya know the war on terror).. well Randi Rhodes is discussing the same on Air America this afternoon with a caller. WTF Would someone please help me out on our game plan?

Did you read the post? I had this on yesterday for a while, and I heard Russo and Francessa go ballistic, not just about Shays, but about the republicans. It is very, very difficult to get that message to the demographic group that is their audience. To have Russo ripping his republican Congressman is a very big deal. This is the station that Imus was on (but not his demo–no netjet ads on Mike and the Mad Dog.)

And that’s one reason why they held these hearings. Because people pay attention to sports.

ECAHN–yes, sports is indeed about tribalism. But sports is also a story, with chapters, with unknown endings at each, with a narrative arc, also with an unknown conclusion. Consider the Giants this season. Everything was in there.