Senate is debating retroactive telecom immunity on CSPAN2, and the Republicans are proving that it’s impossible to defend their opposition without lying your ass off.
The Senate today — led by Jay Rockefeller, enabled by Harry Reid, and with the active support of at least 12 (and probably more) Democrats, in conjunction with an as-always lockstep GOP caucus — will vote to legalize warrantless spying on the telephone calls and emails of Americans, and will also provide full retroactive amnesty to lawbreaking telecoms, thus forever putting an end to any efforts to investigate and obtain a judicial ruling regarding the Bush administration’s years-long illegal spying programs aimed at Americans. The long, hard efforts by AT&T, Verizon and their all-star, bipartisan cast of lobbyists to grease the wheels of the Senate — led by former Bush 41 Attorney General William Barr and former Clinton Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick — are about to pay huge dividends, as such noble efforts invariably do with our political establishment.
Pat Leahy’s ridiculous assertion yesterday that he would join Dodd in the "filibuster" was one of the more craven and dishonest moves in this debate. The rules they have all agreed to have precluded a true filibuster, so what he means is he’ll stand up and support Dodd in the limited time allotted. The time for Leahy to take a stand was when Reid substituted the Intelligence bill for the Judiciary, and Leahy said nothing.
The Democrats have conspired to give Bush everything he wants. We’re going to get screwed. Nobody should pretend to be a hero here.
Update: Woo hoo! You lose. Dodd’s amendment to strip retroactive immunity fails spectacularly, 31-67. I have to say that what constantly amazes me is just how damn little it costs corporate America to buy our elected officials. Pennies on the dollar, really, for what they get.
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Jane!
Good morning. Today is huge.
This is really hard to take.
F*ck Leahy, Reid. F*ck all of them, except Dodd.
Obama and McCain are there. I don’t have the ability to watch, has anyone seen Clinton?
This is why I don’t want Dodd to take a position in any WH, Dem or Gooper *ever*. CT needs one sane senator, and the country needs a fighter for the constitution, because this battle will go on.
Note to the NSA;
Try to keep up today boy’s, it’s gonna be busy.
This is killing me. Is there any chance that this will get stalled in the house?
Grrr. Lot’s D no votes. I heard Nelson Fl, Feinstein, Rockefeller, Bayh and several others. We don’t have a chance here.
I haven’t. I just sent her yet another email asking her to please start doing her job. FWIW.
Jane:
You have email… (My my you’re so busy…Hope you’re also taking care of yourself…)
She is in Texas apparently.
Hi Folks
I believe Clinton is not there today from all accounts….
This is tragic….Dodd is my hero…
I called Salazar a few minutes ago (as I posted downstairs). He “doesn’t know how he’ll vote” on immunity. But I just remembered something interesting that his staffer told me: A lot of calls that his office is receiving in support of immunity are coming from banks. Does that mean the government is stealing my financial information without a warrant also? Are we going to see a retroactive banking immunity bill sometime soon if this one passes?
Just cash your tax rebate check and they will be happy.
Move along, nothing to see here.
At least Obama voted Aye. He earned a lot of respect from me today.
digg Dodd! :D
yep. even more than the republican senate was willing to give him (and that was when bush was actually still popular).
imo, the last chance small chance to try to stop this was on jan 31. someone could have objected to the UC and forced the republicans to filibuster (a real one) in order to force the requirement for 60 votes to pass difi’s amendment (and all other amendments). while the Rs were filibustering the Ds could have ripped them for weakness on national security.
that the attempt was not made, speaks volumes for how low we have sunk.
At a recent ACLU event I attended, a comment was made that a lot of businesses are keeping close tabs on this, because there is likely a lot more illegal activity going on and the telecoms are just the tip of the iceberg. So yes, I would guess banks are worried, as well as presumably contractors engaged in all manner of nefarious conduct up to and including torture.
Could we take solace if there are 40 “Ayes” that those same Senators will vote against cloture later?
They can always get what they want – our only hope is if we can’t pay their bill.
Not with a bang, but a whimper. Curious how they bury the votes on primary days, no?
yes.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
How many ways does this suck big time????? Too many to count.
Coming soon to a Congress near you:
The Rule of Law. Mocked.
The will of the people. Subverted.
Democracy. Sold to the highest bidder.
That is interesting. I started reading up on that Infragard thing…apparently businesses have been given the “right” to give Homeland Security information on employees, etc., and maybe clients too, and have been told that they will not be legally vulnerable….sounds similar to the Telco thing, which makes me wonder about the wording of the FISA amendment…it protects ALL companies from assisting Bushco…Right now, Infragard is pretty much under the radar, but it is in all states and was set up by the FBI in the 1990’s; but since Bushco, it seems to have taken a different tack, i.e., they are spying on us too. JMHO
Shit shit shit…. oh good morning Jane…hope all is well with you…
Except Dodd.
Which vote was that?
It’s all kabuki anyway. Solace? not.
She is in Texas today. She won’t even be in Virginia.
I actually wondered about that too…
Not too long ago I did a credit check and noticed the bank I was using indicated at one of the credit monitoring institutions that I had initiated a possible loan application which left a flag on my credit history. That “flag” would notify the bank any intention of any future loan applications from anywhere…
I never approached that bank of any intention of a loan application.
To think of the way I felt about the Dem leadership in the Senate/on committees a year ago, & the way I feel now…
Escaping to drive in to work & (hopefully) get away from that feeling for a while.
Read you all later.
You’re right. We only got 31 votes here. Probably less when the cloture vote comes up.
Say goodbye to the Constitution.
Feinstein amendment, not sure after that.
It seems counterintuitive to perceive Dodd as a hero beyond this issue. That has not been his track up till now. Strange bedfellow, indeed.
not even dodd was willing to live up to his promise to fillibuster.
that said, he’s done more than anyone else and for that i am grateful and i don’t regret the $ i sent his campaign.
jeezus, we are loosing every single fight, what the frig is going on?
I want to move
The great sell-outer from West Virgina rises to address the chamber…
Go to hell, Rockefeller.
how sickening it is to see one (supposed) Democrat, Jello Jay, rise, along with Kit Bombed, to urge the defeat the amendment of Sen. Feingold…
Get a load of Jello Jay on C-span 2. Oh now Kit Bond. Oh now roll call?
We already have our edition. Where are you Mars? *g*
Sadly, I don’t think Dodd can do much now. It seems that even half of the Democratic caucus would rather take a crap on the Constitution. Why should they care if Bush doesn’t. Did you see Bush the other day. He apparently thinks he is in charge of defending America, not protecting the Constitution.
Er. . . . Feingold (and ammendment), good. Feinstein, not so good.
Well said.
It’s important that you meet and greet the Senators who don’t give a rat’s ass for your Constitutional Rights. These are people who jump when Cheney says jump, who used to be Democrats who have evolved into Bush Republicans when they vote on FISA:
Voting Against the Dodd Amendment (my unofficial preliminary list but everyone I listed is accurate–I tried not to miss anyone). These are people who don’t give a rat’s ass for your constitutional rights including former U.S. Attorneys Claire Mccaskill and Sheldon Whitehouse who have heard of the Constitution but forgotten how to support it:
Amendment 3907
Dodd’s Amendment Total: 31 Yes 67 No
Feinstein, Nelson, Rockerfeller, Mccaskill, Hillary Clinton Supporter Mikulski, Landrieu, Lincoln, Salazar,Tom Carper, Webb, Whitehouse Leiberman former Democrat now Republican in fact Independent in Name.
why is it that the Repub’s have become so much more powerful and effective, now that they’re the “Minority” party?
he could have objected to the UC on 1/31/08.
now, i agree, there isn’t much he could do to force the issue.
his speech last night was great, but that was an appeal to the conscience of our senators – people who, for the most part, apparently have no conscience and in any event weren’t there to hear it.
Because they can blame it on the Dem majority now.
Sad to see Webb cave to the Telecoms. Verizon/MCI has a lot of money and data centers in VA. I thought he was better than that.
I called Nelson’s (FL) office earlier this morning. I was told that he supported Dodd. He votes NO. I called back and the staff person said he didn’t understand the vote.
I can’t believe Lieberman is still allowed to stand on the floor when he’s so clearly insane trotting after McCain like he does. Now if we CT citizens had a real US attorney. . .
The only answer I can come with on that one that makes sense is blackmail…
“he didn’t understand the vote”?!? What the fuck does that mean?
pretty sure I just heard the clerk read that Evan Bayh voted both “aye” and “no”.
Nice trick…
Because the Dems never fundamentally disagreed with them to begin with. It was all for show. Now we see what the Dems really stand for and it sure isn’t the rule of law, the Constitution, or representative Democracy. Maybe we should save some time and just refer to Congress as the Politburo.
traitors and clueless idiots.
may a cartload of hay rot in each one of their beds (old hungarian curse).
whadda we do now, Jane?
There is a remedy for that…
aargh! we are governed by morons.
Dodd speech was as good as Churchill’s. Any of them.
works for me.
What can you expect from the same cabal that complied with Bush and ushered in the Iraq War?
Not to mention Justices Thomas, Alito and Roberts.
-G
I just saw Obama on the Senate floor—-yeah!
It is all about the fu**ing money. Look at the stock market now that the telecoms are off the bloody hook
I *almost* feel sorry for Mary Landrieu. She shows up, votes incorrectly every time, then leaves. And nobody ever even acknowledges her existence.
As it should be, I guess…
Clinton better not accuse Obama of not being there for important votes…
i never heard churchill, but dodd was very good. really put head and heart in to that speech, and one could tell he was exhausted by the end.
i’m going to try to get some more clips of it up today. too many people missed it (including phred and matt).
I’m just going to say that this is utterly dishonest and encourages pie throwing in a way that I’m not going to put up with.
You’ve been warned.
The only way she ever gets any money is by supporting the Pukes. She’s in Ted Steven’s pocket.
Working with Glenn G to put together a petition to House members telling them to stand by the RESTORE act.
i just told my wife that. There is coersion being used…Blackmail is just the tip of the iceburg.WTF?
Not me. Not after he voted twice for more money for troop killing on the 2007 war supplementals.
He and many other Dems are in way over their heads. Or in the wrong party.
How can Mary Landrieu vote with the Bushies when they have left New Orleans to rot? She is disgusting!
He didn’t know why Nelson voted NO, when he supposedly was in support of Dodd.
Whither goes Wall Street, so goes the Politburo.
Just remember us little people are supposed to be positively delirious that the markets are up because that means the economy doesn’t suck! Woo Hoo! I sure feel better, don’t you? (/massive snark)
Of course, if HoJoe were kicked out of the caucus and stripped of his chairmanship, the Dems would likely end up in the minority, or power-sharing, on a 50-50+Dick vote.
And this would change the fact that Bush and Miss McConnell get everything they want, not a jot.
Senator Barack Obama is on the floor voting. He is supporting Dodd and Feingold in every vote, standing up for your Constitution as he will soon as your President.
Senator Hillary Clinton is Out and About Shoppin or planning with Bubbah Jefferson Clinton and Maggie Williams on how to use Super Delegates to Steal the Election as she proceeds to loose 3 more elections today. She does not care about your constitutional rights obviously.
Senator John McCain McBush is on the floor voting against your Constitution.
Here’s an old Jewish curse: May they lose all their teeth except one so they can get a toothache.
all I can say is that I sure as hell don’t understand it either…
seriously, what do we do? Is there any hope when they reconcile the bill with the House? I don’t understand why Dodd voted on the UC and gave up the right to filibuster?
Thanks Jane! I can’t believe the Senate doesn’t give a damn about the Constitution, even with all the forewarning, I find myself incredulous watching these votes come down.
Thanks Selise the late night appreciate that you have been doing that. Someday I would hope that Dodd’s speech yesterday would be required watching for high school kids taking government classes… it would do them a lot of good to see a true patriot in action defending our constitution!!
I think the remainder of that curse is and then get Titanium Screws and implants isn’t it?
When is Nelson’s seat up for ‘auction.’ I want another Senator!!!!
Debbie Stabenow voted no on Dodd
I thought I read this am that she’s in Texas, plotting.
Good Morning Jane and Pups.
And a sad one. The definition of “too much at stake” is changing before our eyes. Dang.
A question, please: Has anyone noticed how Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio voted?
I thought he seemed to be standing strongly with Dodd last time this came up. Not just voting, but speechifying.
It was clear for quite a while the Democratic leadership favored retroactive immunity, which considering the enormity of other problems, is fairly small potatoes. Obama’s vote is a big plus for him and should give progressives who favor Hillary because she is a woman reason to switch sides. As for Hillary’s changing staff, to get to the root of her problems she has only to look in the mirror.
We seek leaders and heros when it is apparent we have been left to our own devices. What exactly those are remains to be seen.
It is the sad effect of confusing political and economic systems. Capitalism is not a political system and this is what you get when it is treated like one.
well, just because i don’t expect good things from our house dem leadership, that doesn’t mean i’m content to watch the train wreck without trying to stop it.
if this ends in the senate as we expect, the next step is the house. it’s not impossible that the progressive caucus and friends could hold together again (as they did to force the house leadership to make changes in the RESTORE ACT) and we could put the spotlight on the house leadership so that they would be too ashamed to join with the Rs to pass the senate bill.
Is Kit Bond Rockefellers *new best friend*? Just asking.
According to TPM, Webb and McCaskill voted with the GOPers. Can we quit considering them for VP now?
WooHoo…they just stopped the proliferation of WMDs!
That would be nice. I don’t want to accept these results.
I don’t know, but I suspect that as we saw with Dodd-Feingold, Dodd couldn’t get the votes to support a filibuster. That meant he could not prevent passage. That coupled with the expiration date, meant that the best he could do is delay long enough to make it impossible for the House to oppose immunity, forcing them as happened in August to capitulate from a false sense of urgency. Ironically, by not filibustering Dodd may have given us one last gasp at putting a stop to this in the House.
excellent! thank you!
I read a piece this weekend while doing updated searches on the cable repairs and came across a piece on US intelligence/ military games. A former military intelligence strategists was hired out of retirement to stage military games recently. He took down a US special ops group in the staged game/op using “old” on foot strategies. He knew the military would be using every telecom tool outatheirarse…He stayed below the wire…
His point: our intel gathering has become poor beyond words as we focus on the “latest telecom based” intel gathering. He said FISA does nothing to protect our country…
I’ll have to find it and post it…
She also voted FOR the Military Commissions Act. Just another Rethug in Dem clothing.
I want to emphasize who voted against your Constitutional rights and that Senator Obama was present voting for these amendments, and Senator Clinton was absent.
There is no retroactive immunity in the Senate Bill, and they will have to hash this out with the house, and according to Cboldt there is no conference committee–bills will be passed back and forth.
Amend 3907 Dodd
31 Yes 67 No
These people voted against your constitutional rights:
Feinstein, Nelson, Rockerfeller, Claire Mccaskill Hillary Clinton Supporter Mikulski, Landrieu, Lincoln, Salazar,Tom Carper, Webb,Whitehouse Leiberman former Democrat now Republican in fact Independent in Name.
Amendment Amendment 3912 Feingold Reverse Targeting:
These people voted against your Constitutional Rights and more may be on the list but they are accurate:
Voting No: Bayh, Carper, Mikulski, Nelson Florida, McCain was there and voted No, Landrieu, Lincoln, Inouye, Webb, Pryor.
This is what happens when money rules. It buys the congress people who let corporations have their way.
It’s all about profit and getting your tax dollars spent on stuff which doesn’t help the people.
Our government is now of, for and by corporations.
We only pay taxes and slave away and die for them on their battlefields.
Communism lost… capitalism won. You are seeing the results today.
Jane are you going to use the same e-mail blast as last time around to inform us of the petition?? If not where can we sign up to get on any such petition?/
i still think that forcing the Rs to filibuster was the way to go, if one really wanted a chance to defeat this bill. not saying it would have worked, but it was a slim chance – and the only one i could see.
To me, Landrieu has appeared to be begging piteously for handouts for a long long time now. It’s beyond sad. You’d think it would eventually occur to her that continuously caving to the power brokers is NOT going to save her state. I wish she would just get out, and let someone more powerful try their hand, if there is anyone else with enough gusto to make a difference. Poor poor Louisianans have been so badly abused by so many.
Yes — hmmm…now it becomes clear why the American Dental Association is now the official sponsor of the curse.
Yep. And ALL of them come up for reelection in November.
again the dems are leaving sen dodd out to dry…. how much bushco ass can they kiss – this is awful…. i’m not sure who i feel more sorry for – sen dodd or the country!!
A related take on this can be found here: FISA: Fascism Is Stalking America.
I’m not too suprised by this, the Dems have been kindly swallowing anything the GOP offers to ram down their throat since 9/11. The American public should NOT tolerate this, as we have the power to change it. Democracy requires eternal vigilance, and our vigilance as a society has been lacking. We have to take a stand before it’s too late.
Happy Corporate Sovereignty Month.
How long before Blackwater gets the same retroactive “blessing”?
And how much longer before prospective immunity is up for
a voteauction?If Short Ride left/was kicked out of the Dem caucus, it would not really affect the current Senate make-up. Reid as Majority Leader and the various committee chairs are designated by name in the Organizing Resolution. If Short Ride flipped, all the Ds would have to do is stand together in a filibuster, which they would do as it is their power in question, and it would stop any re-Org movement cold.
People switching phone providers could be the only item that sends the right message….
Thank you Jane, for this and all that you are doing. You give us hope in these dark hours. God bless you (and that’s from an atheist :-) ).
I just hope tnat President Obama orders the NSA to post on-line all those Bush White House e-mails they intercepted without a warrant.
Anyone want to buy a nice silk purse? Go ask my friend over there, the pig with one ear.
I am so disgusted. This is not why I worked my ass off for the Democratic Party all these years. :-(
if there was a phone provider we knew was protecting our privacy – maybe by employing hard core encryption technology?
OH! I SO would have, but as it turns out Qwest is our only option down here. Which is good, but I’d have loved to make that move!
Thanks Jane.
Sad for America, but we will soldier on.
I PRAY President Obama utilizes the many tallents of Senator Whitehouse in his administration! VP would be very cool with me.
Here is a list of what is being voted on today:
Order of Senate Amendment Votes Today Matt Hamlin’s Blog
They are voting on the Specter-Whitehouse bill now which would ridiculously substitute the government as defendent in the civil suits against the Telcos.
Here is what was defeated just now (thanks to Cboldt’s blog):
Dodd Amendment No. 3907, to strike the provisions providing immunity from civil liability to electronic communication service providers for certain assistance provided to the Government.
Feingold/Dodd Amendment No. 3912, to modify the requirements for certifications made prior to the initiation of certain acquisitions.
I’d be more surprised if they’d done the right thing. These guys have been bought, blackmailed, or gotten threats aimed at them or their nearest-and-dearest. It makes me wonder what’s in their closets that they can’t afford to have come out in public – or what they think we won’t tolerate.
In better news, CNN.com’s current poll results:
Who do you like best for president?
John McCain 24% 20938
Mike Huckabee 12% 10849
Hillary Clinton 24% 21114
Barack Obama 41% 36119
This could not have happened without the Democratic leadership. Don’t be fooled by the idea that this was the result of a few senators. It was a finely orchestrated, well financed campaign by some of the most well-placed corporations in the country.
Where was Obama’s leadership??? Where was Clinton’s??? Neither stepped up and neither deserve our support. The entire Party is corrupt to the core.
If someone does want to pick on the sacrificial lambs of the Democratic Party i.e. those that could politically “afford” to publicly side with the telecom giants, here they are (but have no doubt this could not have happened without the leadership and collusion of the entire Party.
Note: since this dragged out a bit, don’t you wonder how many campaign contributions were wrangled from the telecoms… must have cost them a fortune!
Among the Dems crossing the aisle (you probably will notice some Kos supported “Dems” among them):
Sens. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV),
Evan Bayh (D-IA),
Daniel Inouye (D-HI),
Tim Johnson (D-ND),
Herb Kohl (D-WI),
Mary Landrieu (D-LA),
Claire McCaskill (D-MO),
Mark Pryor (D-AR),
Blanche Lincoln (D-AR),
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA),
Ken Salazar (D-CO),
Tom Carper (D-DE),
Barbara Mikulski (D-MD),
Jim Webb (D-VA).
Don’t be so quick to jump – remember that Qwest was the one Telco that said no to the illegal spying.
jane – please give our love and thanks to christy too. i expect she’s not happy about this either.
IANAL, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Is there any chance that in any of the lawsuits regarding the telcos that the immunity portion of this bill could be challenged in the SCOTUS as an ex post facto law?
When is Nelson’s seat up for ‘auction.’ I want another Senator!!!!
First elected in 2000, so I guess that means up for re-election in 2012.
In my humble estimation, Senator Clinton WANTS these amendments to fail, and is thoroughly planning to fully utilize the extraordinary powers Bush has implemented to the maximum extent, which is WHY she’s not there voting!
I KNOW THAT, i’m saying if i weren’t WITH Qwest already I’d have changed@!
Nelson (FL) ran against Katherine Harris in 2006, so while I understand how disappointed you are, nobody wanted Harris to win not even the Republicans. (Jeb Bush would not campaign with her)
well, i don’t read minds, all i can do is judge actions.
Thank you, Jane. The horse race has been sucking all the oxygen out of the room – this is stuff that matters right now.
Jim–I ran into Matt Hamlin’s Blog.
I hadn’t seen it before. Helpful.
No cure for this except for everything to come crashing down. That’s about the size of it. They’ve killed America anyway, and no way do we ever get our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms back. There’s an entire sector of the economy now built on spying and “security,” probably one of the few that’s actually doing well.
What if we had government promotion of industries to save energy, give us oil-free transportation, and grow healthy foods? Not gonna happen, is it? This vote brings me back to where I was before the Iowa caucuses and my excitement over Obama: putting all one’s energy and hope into voting for change is meaningless so long as the utterly corrupt Democratic “leadership” still occupies positions of power.
To hell with them all, but at least I’m released again.
crap – computer crashed. I just wanted to note for the record that Senator Kit Bombed got the word “proliferators” out on only his second try.
Attaboy, Kit!!
Still Dodd gets a Valentine from me.
a very bright and shiny object.
- uh -
go ahead and add a couple more from this household to Obama’s column.
My normally quiet but strong hubby was especially quiet, reading something with intense concentration last night. I finally couldn’t stand it any more and asked what it was.
“The Constitution,” says he.
good point
Removing Short Ride from his committee, though, would need a new organising resolution.
What I want is for the Dems to cede the majority in the Senate. Why? Because there’s no difference who’s in charge. Ceding it by kicking HoJoe out of the caucus would at very least show an atom of dignity.
me too! i’m thinking of sending him a bit more $ as a thank you for last night’s speech.
but that doesn’t mean i’m going to turn off my brain and pretend that he hasn’t done anything to disappoint. i think we are capable of seeing both the good and the less than good, even in at the same time and in one person.
Emails, phone calls, faxes, all expressing outrage mean nothing to these people. They don’t care what you say because they are so positive that Liberals/Progressives/Democrats will all fall nicely in line and vote for the Democrat because they just cannot vote for a Republican.
I have almost always followed that scenario. Once I voted Green for a very good candidate for Senator against Herb Kohl here in Wisconsin. She was awesome but didn’t stand a chance.
I am now too old and to cranky to fall in line anymore. Most of my Grandkids don’t give a crap about politics and don’t bother to vote so I find myself free for the first time to vote my conscience.
No more votes for Corporate Dems even if it means that a Republican wins. Honestly, what’s the diff? I do get to vote for Russ Feingold knowing he’s one man of integrity but mostly from now on out I vote Green. And that means that I will probably vote Green in the Presidential election because it looks as if Obama has the momentum and I will never, ever vote for him.
Yeah, the primary takes on piss-colored tones for me right now. *sagging shoulders* But whenever I feel disengaged, I try to remember that four to eight years of the anointed successor to the Imperial Shrimperer, with Dr. Strangelove foreign policy, Iran-baiting, through the roof military spending, no-bid military contractors, pro-life judges and all that, is quite frankly intolerable.
Well, last time I heard he has a campaign debt. I tried to send money too, but I didn’t see it on my statement. Don’t know what happened.
Damn, posted about not voting for Senator Herb Kohl of Wisconsin and there he is side by side with Rockefeller betraying the American People once again.
but that doesn’t mean i’m going to turn off my brain and pretend that he hasn’t done anything to disappoint. i think we are capable of seeing both the good and the less than good, even in at the same time and in one person.
rational and reasonable as always, Selise.
FWIW, as a matter of law, the United States denied all civil rights to women until 1919. White supremacy was legal until the 1960’s.
I’m not saying this isn’t a gravely serious situation, it certainly is. We, as progressives, however, have to just be smart and keep working.
Must have been that second swig under the podium that did the trick.
lol, oh boy do i have you fooled!
xxxooo
amen to that!
Current Federal law obligated the telcos to provde access for the Feds – not certain if this would preclude them from offeriing strong encryption.
We, however,, can encrypt our communicatons.
Wired – in their coverage of the ATT?NSA spy room in SF – describes programs which may be used to:
encrypt email
hide/mask web searches and IP addresses
encrypt phone calls
And it would have have clearly shown their craven hypocrisy. Standing and fillibustering while claiming that the expiring law would lead to a terrorist attack would show the world how pathetic the GOP really is. Harry Reid is a pathetic excuse of a leader. Hell even Bill Frist refused to let this worthless piece of legislation come to the floor. Thanks Harry for selling us out.
I disagree. Short Ride would still maintain his committee chair if things flipped mid-term like this and as bad as things are right now, it would be that much worse with McConnell as Majority Leader. Think of all the judiciary appointments they’d be pushing through. Think of all the other appointments like I believe Bradbury and such that would be pushed through or given recess appointments.
I’m in no way a fan of how Reid is doing business but it would be far worse with McConnell in charge.
good point kirk. especially if part of a nationwide campaign… that might be a way to go.
*affecting lockjaw* I always pride my self on being a good judge of character.
This perspective that Cboldt posted last night on EW might be helpful in following events today:
From Cboldt last night:
I asked:
Who do you think are going to be on the House-Conference commitee and is there any slim chance that the House’s immunity is going to survive?
On the harm Harry Reid did by bringing the SSIC version with Immunity to the floor instead of the SJC version without Immunity to the floor:
I asked:
If Reid had brought the SJC version of S. 2248 to the floor, given the vote requirements (60) for so many of these amendments or as Glenn Greenwald put it, they made sure that no amendments could possibly pass, do you think that would have made any significant difference in the final outcome of this?
Yes – a whole new take on consumer protection.
many thanks.
The “pinko” objects to protection that can be bought. I don’t like divides between haves and have-nots where the rich can buy their way into privacy. I say onto the House!
Excuse me @153. The “pink-in-me”.
Leadership appreciated…Thank You and Glenn I made my calls this morn Jello’s staff hung up
It wouldn’t make a difference. Encryption technology is considered a “munitions” and is regulated by the Dept. of Defense. Whatever technology the Telco was using commercially, the DoD would have a key to decipher in a matter of seconds.
The stock market up is not synonomous with a good economy. Millions of households are not doing well at all. Many industries are in deep trouble. Stocks go up an down but have lost a lot of equity the last 8 months. Added to that our dolloar is worth 50% of 2000 value.
agreed.
i was thinking that if enough people did it all at once the purpose would not be individual protection, but rather as a way to monkey wrench the system.
That would remove Reid as chair and they could go negative on the Rethugs until the new election. Blame them.
FWIW, the current version of zfone is free.
I do agree that we are all better served by secure phone networks – but pusuing both strategies (personal encryption for those who can/will AND working for snoop-free comms for all) seems quite ethical. The latter goal and the former tool are not mutually exclusive.
[I work for and support single-payer; but when I need to use I also use my own private insurance coverage - though I dislike the divide, my effectiveness as a change agent is only diminished if I forego the (ethical) tools legally available to me simply because all do not have access to such tools]
As far as our personal use of encryption softeware, the Feds’ freak-out over PGP illustrates that Zimmerman’s encryption technologies appear quite able to withstand Ft. Meade and are constructed in such a way as to obviate the “key” problem.
Both Wired and (IIRC) BoingBoing have discussed these techy aspects in detail.
My take-home message: free personal encryption software so powerful even Wired thinks it will defeat NSA snoopin is available for us to legally use.
What do you have against Obama?
I saw a wrinkle in his shirt. He’s obviously unfit to serve in government.
Hey, if he can get elected because of a nice suit, then any little wrinkle is grounds for not voting him in. Right?
Your candidate sucks! And, don’t you forget you were told.
Our country is run by a pack of criminals, Democrats and Republicans. They’re all bought and paid for by the criminal rich. People, take back our country!