You also didn't earn most of it.
It seems like every time I discuss taxation, some libertarian will waltz in and say "it's my money and I don't see why the government should be able to take it."
So let's run through why, no, it isn't your money. We'll start with two numbers. The income per capita for the US in 2005 was $43,740. The income per capita for Bangladesh was $470.
Now I want you to ask yourself the following question: are Bengalis genetically inferior to Americans? Since not too many FDLers think white sheets look great at a lynching, I'll assume everyone aswered no.
Right then, being American is worth $43,270 more than being Bengali and it's not due to Americans being superior human beings. If it isn't because Americans are superior, then what is it?
The answer is that if it isn't individual, it must be social. On the individual but still social level, Americans are in fact smarter than Bengalis because as children they are far less likely to suffer from malnutrition. However not suffering from malnutrition when you're a baby, toddler or young child has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the society you live in and your family--two things you have zero influence over (perhaps you chose your mother, I didn't.)
Bengalis won't, on average, get as good an education. They won't get as much education either, since every child is needed to help earn a living as soon as possible. For most Bengalis there's no room for having the extended childhood and adolescence westerners are used to, which often stretches into the late twenties or even early thirties, amongst those seeking Ph.D's or becoming doctors or lawyers.
When a Bengali grows up the jobs available aren't as good. If he or she starts a business it will earn much less money than the equivalent American business. If he or she speculates in land and is very successful, they will still be much less rich than an American would be.
One could go on and on. I trust the point is obvious -- the vast majority of money that an American earns is due to being born an American. Certainly the qualities that make America a good place to live and a good place to make money are things that were created by Americans, but mostly they were created by Americans long dead or they are created by all Americans working together and are not located in the individual.
Now the same is true of the really rich. Forbes keeps track of the world's billionaires, and almost half of them are in the US. This is because US society and the US government in particular, is very set up to create billionaires. Your odds of being a billionaire take a massive jump if you're born in the US. Your odds of being a billionaire if you're born in Bangladesh? Essentially zero. Now one could point out that billionaires are still so rare that the odds are always essentially zero (how many billionaires in your circle of friends?) Nonetheless the US in 2005 had 371. Germany, with the second most, had 55.
Bangladesh, you won't be surprised to hear, had zero.
If you're a billionaire in the US, you're a billionaire in large part because you live in the US.
So, if you're American, a large chunk of the reason you make a lot of money (relative to the rest of the world) is that you are American. The main cause of your relative wealth is not that you work hard, or that you're innately smarter than members of other nations (though you may be since you weren't starved as a child). It's because you had opportunities given to you that most people will never had, and those opportunities existed due to the pure accident of your birth or because you or your family chose to come to the US. The same is true of most first world nations.
Immigrants understand this very well. There's a reason why Mexicans, for example, are willing to risk death to cross the border. Their average income is $7,310, compared to the US average income of $43,740. They won't make up all the difference just by crossing the border, but they'll make up enough that it's more than worth it. They haven't personally changed, they don't work harder now that they're across the border. They aren't smarter and they aren't stronger. They just changed where they lived and suddenly the opportunities open to them were so much better that their income went up.
So let's bring this back to our typical Libertarian with his whine that he earned it, and the government shouldn't take it away. He didn't earn most of it. Most of it is just because in global terms, he was born on third and thinks he threw a triple. That doesn't mean he doesn't have to work for it, but it does mean most of the value of his work has nothing to do with him (and Ayn Rand aside, it's almost always a him).
Now what a government is, in a democratic society, is the vehicle that the population as a whole chooses to use to organize collective action. Government is, imperfect as it is, the closest approximation to the "will of society" that we've got.
Since the majority of the money any American earns is a function of being American, not of their own individual virtues, the government has the moral right to tax. And since those who are rich get more from being American than those who are poor, it also has the moral right to take more money from them.
More importantly than the moral right, it has the pragmatic duty to do so. The roads and bridges that government builds and maintains; the schools that it funds, the police and courts that keep the peace; the investment in R&D that produced the internet; the sewage systems that make real estate speculation possible, and on and on, are a huge chunk of what makes being American worth so much more than being a Bengali. Failure to reinvest in both human and inanimate infrastructure is like killing the golden goose, and America, for decades now, has not been keeping its infrastructure properly maintained, let alone building it up.
And money itself is something that government provides for its people. It's not your money, it's America's money and it's a damn good thing too. If you don't believe me, try issuing your own money and see how many people accept it. Some will, because what money is, when an individual issues, is an IOU. I've written a few in my life. In every case the person I gave it to was less happy to receive it than he would have been to get some nice crisp dollars. And I rested my IOU's on dollars -- I promised to repay in my country's currency. If you don't want to do that you'd have to issue an IOU saying "I will repay you with a bundle of rice" or gold, or a service. And then you come to the question of enforcement (one thing even libertarians admit the government should do) because what if I refuse to meet the conditions of the IOU. Even an IOU is based on the sanction of the government, if it isn't it's worth only as much as the good will of the person issuing it or the strong arm of the person holding it.
So no, it isn't your money, and it's a good thing it isn't. And while you may have worked your butt off for it, you also didn't earn most of it. The value you impute to yourself "I'm worth my 80K salary" is mostly a function of where you live, of where you were born and of who your parents are.
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Yup
This is an interesting post. I will re read it and then comment.
So… are we basically discussing ‘context’?
This is a very important post. Thanks, And, one could add more too, by looking at the larger issue of place even within the U.S. - NY metropolitan area vs Cleveland. Couple that with class/parental wealth - both here and elsewhere and it makes the whole even more notable.
Yeah, I mostly left parents out of it, but I’d say 90% or so of you worth is where you’re born, 90% of what’s left is who your parents were. The rest is you. (There are always exceptions, of course, I’m talking in general.)
Would you care to comment on the realities of going back to the gold standard?
A lot of food for thought here. If it’s not my money, do I have to give it back?
Oh I love being in the thicket of economic theory. :0)
Wrote an entire article on that, in effect, Kiddo. The supply of gold doesn’t track the actual economic base, so I don’t support it.
And who then is the government?
THREW a triple? Are you a brit?
If the government asks for it, yeah, pretty much.
Let’s put it this way — it’s your money as much as it is any other American’s: as a group you and other Americans and your ancestors have created the value of the US dollar.
Canadian. We tend towards British english.
A government that doesn’t insure it’s right to taxation is no government at all- it would starve in a millisecond- so if one is to live in a world with a government- and not in the “state of nature” where life is brutish and short, one will have taxation. Now let’s talk about HOW MUCH? The answer is “enough to cover the costs”.
Ian
OK- you are forgiven!
That’s a proper argument. But could I ask what is the “actual economic base”? Would it be oil perhaps? Or something I have not considered? I am not being flippant here.
Baseball gods forgive him for he knoweth not what he saith.
But what are the costs? That’s the question, isn’t it? And opinions differ.
It used to be industrial machinery and land. Right now it’s probably energy, because energy is the bottleneck resource. A properly functioning economy able to raise all boats tries to make sure there is never a bottleneck resource.
Yes-exactly- but before jumping to that- there is a minor victory to be had just by gettin yer average gooper to admit that the government should tax enough to cover the costs of government- which precludes tax cuts willy nilly that get put on the card.
Richard Nixon I believe closed the deal on getting rid of the gold standard. Which of course for this progressive almost automatically makes the deal suspect.
Abandoned Gold Standard Guarantees Inflation
http://cmi-gold-silver.com/gol.....money.html
I wonder if we’re investing enough in our human resources: education, health, integrating the disabled, etc. It’s not a bottleneck, but relative disinvestment in these areas–letting them slide at a suboptimal level–will hurt our productive capacity in the long run, in addition to any moral arguments about whether these are good things to do.
(Of course governments will sometimes engage in deficit spending for short periods to stimulate growth during tough times- but that should not become the norm.)
Don’t see much written about the time to turn off the deficit spending tap.
And if you have a gold standard you get long periods of deflation.
“I wonder if we’re investing enough in our human resources: education, health, integrating the disabled, etc.”
The short answer in our view is no. Others, as you may very well know better than we, may not agree. L. is reading these comments tonight and says hello. ;0)
Great post, Ian,
I think this really does not occur to very many people, even liberals. It’s obvious after attention is drawn to it but I still think there is resistance to really taking the concept on board.
Have you done a similar piece on how social security taxes also should not be thought of as “my money” that I’d prefer to invest myself?
Thanks,
Joel Mael
I seem to recall a ‘Cross of Gold’ speech by William Jennings Bryant…
Check. But not ‘mate’. Some argue that way too much available credit is a strong contributer if not a sufficient defining condition leading to our present, and possibly horrendous economic problems coming down the road in a short while.
I haven’t, though I suppose I could. SS, in addition to the humanitarian concern, help spread demand out and help free up younger workers.
They say we passed an unconstitutional law. I deny it. The income tax was not unconstitutional when it was passed. It was not unconstitutional when it went before the Supreme Court for the first time. It did not become unconstitutional until one judge changed his mind; and we cannot be expected to know when a judge will change his mind.
The income tax is a just law. It simply intends to put the burdens of government justly upon the backs of the people. I am in favor of an income tax. When I find a man who is not willing to pay his share of the burden of the government which protects him, I find a man who is unworthy to enjoy the blessings of a government like ours.
(From the Cross of Gold)
Sure. But there are other ways to limit credit. They all come down to society wanting to limit credit enough.
Glad I didn’t miss this, Ian. I look forward to your threads. Americans have a difficult time understanding just what capitalism and self-reliance really means. They are so caught up in this false notion of “the individual” and me, mine, my.
Any society is greater than one of its parts. Money is one of the parts. From the moment we are born we are part of an interdependent group; I don’t care how much money a person has they will die if they are not part of the entire infrastructure, governance, education, and all the other parts that make up the whole.
I have no idea how a person is self-reliant unless they dismiss all the parts as Ayn Rand does and just focuses on the detail of capitalism. The last time I tried drinking water from a quasi source, I was damn sick for a long time. I really count on all the parts of the society.
Here is what I count on: streets where I can walk, roads where I can drive, clean drinking so I don’t drop dead, street lights so I’m not mugged, the fire department, Forest fire fighters so my entire town doesn’t go up in flames, the police, traffic control (please, nuts drive), convient food locations, sewerage, electricity to my door to name a few.
This is hardly self-reliance no matter how much money you have. A lot of people pay so I can have these services. Could it be….no….god forbid….collective money. Wash my mouth out with soap!
An easy fix is to raise the cap from $89,000 to $250,000 and make it a locked box…
So it’s oil? And if so, then can we also conclude that’s the “real” reason we went into Iraq, and will perhaps, or probably, sooner or later, enter Iran?
And it resonates to this day…! ;-)
Yup. That would work.
Oil is the current bottleneck resource, and the dollar is acting the way you would expect it to as a result. Goldbugs almost got it, except they think gold still matters as much as it used to.
Iraq would never have been invaded if it didn’t have oil, but from an oil perspective it is so far a failure — the oil is not online in sufficient quantities. It needed to go online, at larger than historical volumes (no reason why not, Saddam was not producing to capacity) quickly. Failure of that to happen was the main economic gamble the Bush administration made and lost.
Finally a progressive takes on Ronald Reagan and the philosophical underpinnings of Reaganomics. And it couldn’t be timelier. With the Paul campaign, the healthcare crisis, and the collapsing economy, there will never be a better time to ATTACK. And there is no way to get a progressive economy without going after the philosophical underpinning of the current nightmare — and to that extent Obama was right when he said that for a long time now the GOP has been the party of ideas. And it’s high time we attack those ideas. And Ian has nailed the basis idea for this whole nightmare. Thanks Ian.
But of course that might for some of us beg the question of whether it’s “society” or the government (political parties in power and their varied political and financial connections) and/or the lending industry who actually regulates credit limits?
SS is easy to fix. It just keeps up with the changes of the times. To do away with SS and privatize it is just another capitalistic excuse to make money off the backs of workers.
Gawd I love economics. Nothing ever really gets decided.
Gold standard or no gold standard, if the rest of the Great Depression financial laws had been left in place, and if the FED and SEC had done their job, we’d be fine.
In 1973, iirc, the SEC proposed getting rid of the short sale uptick rule (you could only sell short on an uptick of the security). There was a huge PUBLIC outcry and they dropped it.
A couple years ago they suggested the same thing, no one noticed, and it passed.
People don’t learn from other people’s mistakes. What is happening now was inevitable because of greed and stupidity once those who remembered the roaring 20’s and the Great Depression were no longer around in sufficient numbers. The gold standard is one way to reign in inflation but it has very severe drawbacks.
That so many people now think of their social security taxes primarily as their ‘retirement plan’, and ‘their money’ results from the Repubs privatization propaganda.
I don’t know the history of how it was originally sold, but I think of SS as a tax I pay so I will not have to see old people begging in the streets and will not risk having to do so myself. It is NOT my money that I might invest myself.
Dems need to push against the misconception.
Joel Mael
Glass-Stegall restrictions repealed in ‘95 led directly to this Sub-prime mortgage mess we’re in now…!
I think I’ll make myself a monolithic monopoly and control all drinking water. I’ll model my corporation after the banking industry, the energy industry and the military industrial government contract industry. The government won’t regulate me but I will regulate you - how much you pay for water and how much I choose to dribble out to you.
Well, FDR wanted it done the way it is, that people pay into it, so that it could never be taken away from them. It’s a very regressive tax in many ways, but that’s the point.
Privatization is stupid, but fortunately, with the market crashing, hopefully people will understand that. For a large group of people returns will never be better than the market as a whole, and that means that all that matters is administrative costs and they have to be kept as low as possible.
Or to put it another way, if government becomes so bankrupt it can’t pay SS, don’t worry about it, you’ll have other problems.
I really do love economics. Why? Because I never know if I’m right. It gives me hope. No snark. I love the subject. Probably because it’s a supreme challange. And I cannot master it.
Great post on an important topic. I only want to add that Ian Welsh’s attitude is the all-American founding father’s attitude, and that the libertarian and reactionary Bush/Cheney GOP is not.
There are several passages from Benjamin Frnaklin on this topic. The one below sets out his views most completely. A little on the racist side regarding his views of Native Americans, and Franklin wasn’t usually as bad on that point as he is here. But that is a topic for another day.
———————–
The Remissness of our People in Paying Taxes is highly blameable; the Unwillingness to pay them is still more so. I see, in some Resolutions of Town Meetings, a Remonstrance against giving Congress a Power to take, as they call it, the People’s Money out of their Pockets, tho’ only to pay the Interest and Principal of Debts duly contracted. They seem to mistake the Point. Money, justly due from the People, is their Creditors’ Money, and no longer the Money of the People, who, if they withold it, should be compell’d to pay by some Law.
All Property, indeed, except the Savage’s temporary Cabin, his Bow, his Matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his Subsistence, seems to me to be the Creature of public Convention. Hence the Public has the Right of Regulating Descents, and all other Conveyances of Property, and even of limiting the Quantity and the Uses of it. All the Property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other Laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it.
Benjamin Franklin to Robert Morris 25 Dec. 1783 Writings 9:138
I’m thinking H20 is a very good investment. Seriously.
Just make taxes optional- like Clusterfuck makes environmental laws optional…
Everyone would get a tax bill sayin “Please forward the amount below- if you feel like it”
Think the goopers would go for that one?
Kiddo - You can create your own economic theory and it will be as good as any other out there;)
Ian, I just discovered Hyman Minsky from this recent New Yorker article:
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/.....k_cassidy/
Do you know much about his writings? I agree quite a bit with his views, at least how the New Yorker presented them. I’m considering learning more about him. His model accurately predicts our current state, and predicts what will happen next.
Would you say the same thing about physics? Chemistry? Mathematics?
Ian, what do you think about this business of sending Americans checks from our indebted government. I can’t for the life of me see why we would borrow MORE money.
Thanks, wesgpc. An excellent citation.
Mr. Welsh: Very good my friend. Very good indeed. ;0)
“People don’t learn from other people’s mistakes. What is happening now was inevitable because of greed and stupidity once those who remembered the roaring 20’s and the Great Depression were no longer around in sufficient numbers. The gold standard is one way to reign in inflation but it has very severe drawbacks.”
I don’t see harm in stimulus or relief, but the way it has been done is phenomenally stupid and mostly pretty pointless. EI extensions and food stamps is where the emphasis should have been.
I confess I’ve never read Minsky. However he sounds right and prescient to me. Thanks for the link, I’m fascinated.
What do the anti taxnuts think will happen if we privatize everything? If anything the Bush administration has shown us is that government provides services that people want cheaper than corporations do who do want to make a profit. So in effect the tax nuts are asking to pay more money.
Plus under Bush nobody is watching the corporations to see that they are actually doing the job that they were paid to do.
For wether its rebuilding New Orleans or Iraq Bush administration government contractors are EXACTLY WHAT REAGEN TALKED ABOUT WHEN HE SAID GOVERNMENT DOESN’T WORK.
Reagen of course objected to government watching corporations to see that they did the job they were paid for.
In conclusion Government should never pay private contractors unless the bids are competitive, and firm with no cost over runs, their should be regular inspections and any corporation that cheats the Government should be banned from future jobs that ban should include any corporate officers of said cheating company like Darth.
In approximately the same period of time Adam Smith says, if you sit a rich man down to a feast at the dinner table he can only consume so much. And, if you sit a poor man down at the same feast he can only consume approximately the same amount as the rich man. The rest is in excess of one’s need.
Want to add that Jefferson was not a libertarian either. He was a majoritarian, and felt that majority vote should be used to control financial markets and contracts (much more so that would be allowed in current US contract or property law), if public felt regulation necessary for public good. I am not sure even I would be willing to go as far as jefferson -he would be a progressive financial markets radical today (though of course, a ridiculous reactionary on other issues).
I think a very wealthy extremely reactionary, wing of our society has had the money and resources to wage a propaganda war that has falsified the nature of our society and government. One of roles of progressives should be to recover the true basis of US society.
Not saying that we have to worship anyting or those old fart founders (almost all dead whitebread males). You know, slavery, sexism, Native American genocide and all that. But we must know the truth, know our true history both the good and the bad, crtique it and use it constructively to move on from here.
As the great conservative and half-mad John Adams said on his death bed when asked to comment on the meaning of US independence:
“I give you Independence Forever… and not a word more…”
BTW, Adams agreed with Jefferson on financial markets, if on little else.
Right now we are not independent, we are slaves to reactionary propaganda about our history.
i heard a methodist minister once do a sermon on ”it’s god’s money on loan to you”
that all money belongs to god, it is only on loan to you, and what are you doing with it?
shoulda seen my former father-in-law’s face………..self-made man, boy was he pissed.
should be-straight tax on income, no deductions………
cuz more money you make, more deductions you are eligible for, lower incomes don’t have that……..do away with it……..
straight tax on income……….
sometimes wonder if straight tax on purchases would do the same thing, consumption tax, usage tax, dunno……..
no write-offs, even for non-profits-would even out if everyone doing the same thing, cuz a WHOLE lotta people use non-profit standing to purchase tax-free. and it’s not for the non-profit.
or purchase under business name, same thing……as a write-off.
not fair.
x dollar is x tax.
even the plane.
(sorry tax accountants, you would have to find another livelihood…….and my dad was an accountant)
Chimpy McShitheels’ marauders have gone on a looting spree.
5.2 trillion disappears from world markets.
-G
I’ve heard it said in some quarters that deficit spending is good. I believe this view to be wrong. Am I wrong?
oh, and i meant for corporations, too………….
x dollar is x tax
Lots of libertarians are computer geeks. This is a business that doesn’t even exist in any real sense in Banglagesh. It wouldn’t exist here except for the enormous infrastructure built by non-computer geeks, electricity generation and distribution systems, patent protection, immense amounts of r&d from our parents. Libertarians of the Ayn Rand/Alan Greenspan/computer geek variety are hothouse flowers, who survive in this harsh world purely on the labor of others.
For the true answer to your question, just see how long you can do it in your everyday life.
The United States is the only country that does not own its central bank.
Our Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned, and it is in ruins, as are all the NYC banks and financial houses. Average per capita incomes buy less every year.
Only the rich benefit in the present economy. They have undermined the American dream.
There are laws in physics and mathematics. Science goes through a rigorous test to prove a theory. Economics is not a science. It is based more on custom. Mathematics is a science.
The impression here is that we’d like to see a post exploring ‘corporate taxes’.
There are many counties in TN where the graduation rate from high school is under 50%. This is a right to work state, and we pride ourselves on our docile workforce, bred to work at low wages in light industry. Nashville touted its fabulous high-tech industry, Dell, which manufactures motherboards and operates a call center. Education, schmeducation.
If I do it long enough and with enough intensity, the feeling here is that sooner or later I will end up in jail. ;0)
Thanks!
Ummm, the property in Paraguay is reported to be on the western hemisphere’s largest fresh water supply.
And that feeling probably has a large amount of truth behind it; at least until they can re-instate debtor’s prisons.
We keep printing money. What exactly is this ‘money’ backed with?
I believe they call it “the full faith and force of the US Government.” IOW, fantasies.
Deficit spending right or wrong? In terms of economics or morality? If you are wondering about the economics then the answer is (as always in economics) -it depends. I do not think there is a competent macro-economist in existence today that would say that short term deficits to smooth consumption and investment over the business cycle is harmful… they would all say it is good and responsible for more stability in economy.
A lot of things we take for granted today, such as unemployment insurance, disability, food stamps, social security and medicare payments play a double role. Besides what they were intended to do in the first place, they provide almost instantaneous automatic funds in recessions to stabilize economic activity. And some of them do generate part of the increases in the deficit that occurs in recessions.
People’s willingness to accept it as payment.
another thing that gets my goat-
and credit interest rates should be the same for everyone………….loans and credit cards. for people and business…………………………………………………
if one person goes to buy a gallon of milk for $2 why should someone else have to pay $4 for it????????……….
it’s the same amount of money, being paid in the same monthly way.
they’re gonna get their money, this bullshit about risk and such and charging differently for the same $200 is ridiculous………
look at how microcredit banking is doing so well, with the ’downtrodden and lowly’ that couldn’t be ’trusted’ to pay back their loans……..they’re paying back at 98%…….higher than their higher class.
same for everyone.
x dollar x tax
same interest for everyone across the board……………………………………………….
Debtors prison was the birth of a nation - Australia. The place was built on the poor soul’s slave labor. They were free to large land holders. It just keeps repeating itself.
Now isn’t that one fine coincidence. Right George, Laura and first Twins? ;0)
Some say love makes the world go ’round. Others remark that it’s money that makes the world go around. I know my view, and my lady says I’m an incurable dreamer and a serious romantic. And as you might suspect, I expect she is right. As usual.
Well if it is a science- it is at best a marginally empirical science- but then so is mathematics if it is a science.
Still- I don’t think it’s the case that anyone’s opinion is equal to anyone elses where economics is concerned.
“It’s Not Your Money”
It is my money. And I stole it fair and square.
Oh boy. Math. I love math. Pretty weird. Huh? ;0)
OT: Obama “smokin’ Hillary in WA and NE:
Nebraska results
CNN already calls it for Obama.
73 percent of precincts reporting:
Obama 69
Clinton 31
WA results:
Per CNN:
35 percent of precincts reporting:
Obama 67
Clinton 32
Sen. Clinton is calling for Shusters head on a pike. “No half hearted apology or temporary suspension will do”.
-G
If truth were told I’m a John Kenneth Galbraith kinda of a guy. So there. I’m finally out of the economic closet. And I feel much better now.
OT: Speaking of mysterious money machines (no, not the Democratic candidates, I mean economics and accounting in general), anyone know what is up with the NRCC fraud investigation?
02.08.08 — 1:58PM // link | recommend (26)
Fiscal Discipline
Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas), a certified public accountant, had pushed for months for an internal audit of the National Republican Congressional Committee….
Finally, at a recent meeting, the now former NRCC treasurer, Christopher J. Ward, relented, giving Conaway what was supposed to be an official internal audit from 2006. That document was a fake… Even the letterhead on which it was sent was a forgery.
Revelations about the falsified document touched off an unfolding scandal that has rocked the NRCC and spurred a criminal investigation by the FBI into the committee’s accounting procedures.
….
Knowing the bank was required by law to notify federal investigators of any “suspicious activity,” the NRCC also alerted the FBI, Republican insiders confirmed.
At the same time, NRCC officials notified the FEC that the committee may have filed inaccurate disclosure statements.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/177641.php
and sorry about all of the …………….
the key was stuck.
keyboard issues, my crux in life…….everybody has one.
Anything to say about Huckabee’s flat tax proposal?
Lahoma has advised me I might not to get into this one. ;0)
that should read might not ‘want’ to…
Totally wrong, but…..
The theory most ‘experts’ are using is deeply flawed. Deeply.
Want to really know why the ‘invisible hand of the market’ doesn’t work?
Want to understand why you can’t predict the stock market?
Want to see conclusive hard data on why markets must be regulated?
Read my post: ‘Theory of Pie’.
And then dig into ‘Complexity Economics’….
Much of this post is supported by this book which outlines the absolute revolution in economic theory which is currently taking place….
And no, ‘they’ don’t want you to be aware of this.
Link doesn’t work for me.
Yeah, I am pretty exhausted with everything.
-G
If we’re in such bad shape economically after over seven years of Republican rule, have I given any thought to how the economy might be behaving under President Huckabee or President McCain?
I wished we could pay each other in snow, because right now, I’d be a multi-bazillionaire. See? ;-)
Faith based tax reductions and shock and awe rebates.
Heaven help us.
-G
Wonder if HRC is doing this to lay down the law that she, and the Democrats in general, will not be messed with as her husband was.
I think the comment itself was nasty and stupid, but Shuster should not be fired over it.
I DO think that comment was indicative of a decayed, depraved empty and corrupt corporate media. It is an indication of a kind of on-air callous and vulgar frat boy mentality that needs to end. So, I cannot argue with HRC’s stand.
I worried momentarily whether I was being hypocritical since I have said rough anf vulgar things in comments here. But I changed my mind. I would be willing to repeat some of the comments I have made about Bush, Cheney, Pelosi and Reid to their faces and defend them, even if the comments were impolite and vulgar. EG: Cheney is a depraved war criminal, a traitor and liar, and punk bully frinstance. Pelosi is naive and cowardly. Reid is a hypocrite.
Can Shuster defend his comment. I doubt it. It was callous stupid gassing, a mindless playing along with a brutal, nihilistic, sexist, racist and class-ist corporate media culture that needs to be exterminated.
Heard Chelsea Clinton interviewed other day -she sounded like a very serious minded, extremely intellegent, focused and autonomous wonk proud of both her parents. Not some one who could every be maninpulated.
I know the feeling my friend. L. says hello. She’s here beside me in the living room on one of her laptops reading your’s and the other comments. ;0)
Hello.
Lahoma
so, ian, please address my comments at 62 and 80, straight tax for everyone, and the credit interest rate issues i addressed…
i really wanna know……..
i can’t understand why people aren’t outraged about this!
is it because they’re all getting the better rates and have plenty of deductions and don’t want others to have them?
that the more you acquire the more you get back? that means the more you spend, the more you get back, how does that make sense? so, those who can’t afford to do that don’t get back? when their dollar is the same as your dollar, just you have more dollars, so you get more dollars??????????
so when you are content in thinking you are of the ’ruling class’, do you not understand that even though you THINK you are getting the best rate-you aren’t, someone is doing to you what you are doing to the under class………business is getting the better rate, in fact, it’s almost for free, gimme money dad, i have a hot date..
half of what you pay at your best rate.
and your sons and daughters are paying out the wazzoooooo because they are young, not because they aren’t credit worthy….
it needs to end
straight tax on every dollar no matter who you are.
Though… if they do fire Shuster over this, then seems to me aabout half the tendentious ignorant empty gassbags, both male and female, we see on those shows should be fired too. Matthews first.
Interesting that Schuster ‘got the chop’ for no more than the truth. Syntax was bad but…
Big fukin’ deal.
Note: PumpkinHaid And the sick, fuck Tweety still on the air still spewing their vile mix of lies, sexism, racism and innuendo.
Schuster a guy who has called ReichWing nutbags on their shit….
Gone.