During the 1990s, the GOP/Media Complex did such a thorough job of promoting the notion of a "Whitewater scandal" that to this day, it’s largely forgotten that the nub of the case was probed to a fare-thee-well by several different official bodies, from the Resolution Trust Corporation to the Pillsbury Commission to even Ken Starr’s Office of (Not At All) Independent Counsel, and each of these bodies found that neither Bill nor Hillary Clinton had done the slightest thing wrong.
Now it’s 2008, and another politician is starting to feel the lash of another alleged scandal involving a land deal. Ironically, while the Whitewater hoo-ha was first pushed by an increasingly desperate Bush the Elder during the 1992 election, the new scandal is being pushed by the Clintons themselves. Barack Obama, come on down! It’s your turn in the barrel.
Whitewater was about Bill and Hillary Clinton’s connections to their longtime friend, real estate developer Jim McDougal. McDougal was a charming, mercurial man whose surface amiability hid a deeply troubled person whose inner demons would lead him to die in jail as mad as a hatter, so mentally unbalanced and prone to giving ever-changing and unreliable testimony — worse even than Starr’s star witness, ex-judge and utterly corrupt human David Hale — that Ken Starr could never publicly use his testimony without revealing the utter ridiculous cruelty of his nonexistent case.
The alleged scandal in Obama’s case involves his own relationship and real estate dealings with a real estate developer who turned out to be unsavory: Tony Rezko. The prosecutorial side of the allegations have been laid out by looseheadprop. Here’s a sample, courtesy of Archpundit, of what the defense might be saying, were this a court case:
The best synopsis of the Obama Rezko relationship was done by the Trib on January 23rd:
Both men declined to comment on their once-close friendship. Obama has been accused of no wrongdoing involving Rezko and has insisted that he never used his office to benefit Rezko.
Thus far, there is little in the public record to suggest otherwise, and the few exceptions that have come to light appear minor. On Capitol Hill, Obama once gave a summer internship to the son of a Rezko business associate on Rezko’s recommendation. Earlier, as a state senator, Obama was one of several South Side political and community leaders who wrote state and city officials urging approval of public funding for a senior housing project involving Rezko.
But when Rezko pushed for passage in Springfield of a major gambling measure, Obama vocally opposed it.
Obama publicly apologized for his 2005 property deal with Rezko, calling it “boneheaded” because Rezko was widely reported to be under grand jury investigation at the time. And Obama has given to charities $85,000 in Rezko-linked campaign contributions, including $40,035 last weekend following a published report suggesting that Rezko funneled a $10,000 donation to Obama through a business associate. Aides to Obama say the senator had no knowledge of any such scheme.
Rezko is tied to nearly every major politician in Illinois over the last couple decades going back to Jim Edgar under whom he received his first state contract. Rezko’s reputation as a slumlord largely got started after Obama was not practicing law full time and was largely dealt with by the City of Chicago and not state government entities.
It’s fair to say Obama used poor judgment in buying the strip of land from Rezko, but of the many ties to Rezko in Illinois, a two key things stand out:
- Obama did no favors such as providing money from a Member Initiative to Rezko
- Obama did not receive any personal benefits from Rezko
The dumbest thing about the relationship from Obama’s standpoint is that one of the most squeaky clean pols in Illinois didn’t think before buying a 10 foot strip of land for above assessed value from a guy about to be indicted. In Illinois that’s amazing, in the Presidential race, it’s the best personal record of any of the candidates.
Archpundit has what he calls a ‘primer’ on this affair, organized into eight parts. It’s very useful and answers each of the accusations brought against Obama. (See also Siun’s piece examining the law firm where Obama got his start and detailing its progressive nature and actions over the decades.)
To go back to the prosecution side for a moment, Lambert Strether over at Corrente points back again to the January 20 Chicago Sun-Times article in which an unnamed source "familiar with the case" is cited as claiming that Barack Obama is the "political candidate" referenced in the December 21, 2007 court document filed against Rezko. (This is the $10,000 that was mentioned by ArchPundit in his primer.)
Here, in full, is the reference in question in the proffer by Fitzgerald (scroll to page 36 to see it):
Another $10,000 of the $112,000 transferred into the pizza company’s bank account was used to make a political contribution in Individual D’s name to a political candidate. Rezko was a fundraiser for that political candidate and directed at least one other individual to make a political contribution to that same candidate, which Rezko then paid back.
Yup, that’s it.
It’s one paragraph, on page 36 of a 78-page document. Ooooh, scary! That’s how little — if any — attention Fitzgerald is directing Obama’s way on this, in a document that Obama’s attackers would have you think is all about taking down the junior Senator from Illinois.
How pathetic is this? So much so that when Chicago-area Republican blogger Dan Curry was using the Rezko proffer in December as a club with which to beat up every local Democrat he could think of (most especially the proffer’s actual main target, Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich), he didn’t even bother with bashing Obama, even though Rezko’s Obama connections had hit the news months earlier. However, Curry did later spread around the Rezko guilt by association with a mention of Hillary Clinton’s ties to John Burgess of IPA, whose lawyer is named in the Rezko indictment.
And again, there’s no evidence that Obama did anything for Rezko as a result. None. As ArchPundit and others, including the editorial board of the Sun-Times’ rival, the Chicago Tribune, have noted, Obama has in fact worked against Rezko’s interests.
As ArchPundit states, Obama is not the only politician to get money from Rezko — though he’s probably the only one to donate it to charity, as he did eight months ago when the allegations about Rezko first hit the news. Not only did Rezko give to many Illnois politicians, he also gave donations to Democratic political operations well outside of Chicago.
Ironically, two of Hillary Clinton’s strongest and closest allies, Los Angeles mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (who is a national co-chair of her presidential campaign) and Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell, have had Rezko money pass through their hands: Rezko gave to Villaraigosa’s mayoral campaign in 2001 and to a Villaraigosa PAC in 2003, and Rezko donated $15,000 to the Democratic National Committee in 2000 when Rendell (who last month officially endorsed Clinton for president and who is on the short list to be her running mate) was DNC chair. (And of course Hill and Bill had their picture taken with Rezko at a fundraiser for Carol Moseley Braun, which was the infamous photo that Matt Lauer ambushed Hillary with on the Today show last month.)
Obama’s campaign’s response to the Sun-Times‘ questions about him and Rezko, which was placed at the very end of the January 20 article, has this passage:
Q. Has the Federal Election Commission or the U.S. attorney’s office in Chicago contacted the senator or any of his representatives about these matters?
A. No.
So according to the Obama campaign, neither the FEC nor Fitz’s office had — as of January 20, when this article was published — contacted Obama or his people about this issue.
If true — and there’s been three weeks in which this could have been shot down as a lie, and so far it hasn’t been (which considering the level of digging and number of articles the Sun-Times had been doing on this issue is rather interesting) — then it means that all the hooting and hollering by the accusers is much ado about nothing. I’m reminded of William Safire’s insistence that indictments were just around the corner for the Clintons in Whitewater, when of course the Clintons never were indicted despite Ken Starr’s worst efforts. And Patrick Fitzgerald is no Ken Starr, which is about the highest praise I can have for the man.
(UPDATE: I’ve been reminded that the Sun-Times’s reporters should have known that targets of investigations are never supposed to be warned beforehand, thus the question that they asked is silly. But then again, so’s the idea that anyone connected with Fitz’s office would "confirm" that someone who isn’t named in a proffer is actually in it. One can make assumptions on one’s own, but nobody in Fitz’s office can "confirm" them. And really, if Obama was the target of anything, why then isn’t there more of him in the proffer? Why, out of nearly eighty pages, is there only the one paragraph that is thought to reference him? Compare that to the pages and pages on "Co-Schemer A" and other persons, all of whom are, as Curry notes, part of Rod Blagojevich’s inner circle.)
On the one hand, it’s rather ironically sad to see Hillary Clinton throwing elbows like this against a fellow Democrat, especially after the living hell her life became courtesy of Ken Starr, the Republican Congress of the 1990s, and their compliant news-media buddies. One wishes she would be as tough if not tougher on the Republicans who have made their careers on tormenting her and her husband.
On the other hand, to judge from the photo in Obama’s office (see above), Barack Obama’s probably more than ready for this sort of smashmouth campaigning. Besides, we might as well get this thing dealt with right now — and really, the chances of this turning into a Whitewater-style witchhunt are slim.
Why? Because the real scandal of Whitewater was of the GOP Congress, with the media cheering them on, going berzerk and viciously abusing their authority. It’s not possible now, because while with FOX News and talk radio at their side the Republicans in Congress certainly can make a big media stink, that’s about all they can do — they can’t use the OIC statute to create a quasi-legal body to harass Obama the same way they harassed the Clintons, because the OIC statute was allowed to expire in 1999.
But an even more important factor may be this: In 1998 the Republicans lost a net total of five Congressional seats and lead Senate impeachment-pushers Lauch Faircloth and Al D’Amato as a direct result of their pushing impeaching Clinton over this bogosity when they fully expected to win oodles of seats because of it. (By the way: The guy who took out Faircloth was none other than John Edwards.) That is a clear warning to them not to try anything like their Whitewater smear, and the related abuse of the legal system, ever again.
One last ironic note: That infamous ten-foot strip of land Obama bought for above market value? The real estate agent who sold it to him is a Hillary Clinton supporter.



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Hey Phoenix..
Why do Democrats do Karl Rove’s dirty work?
See you later. I’m about to get on the 6 bus to head to a cafe in Dinkytown…I have my laptop and the cafe has wireless hotspot…
It doesn’t matter if there isn’t anything to Rezko. The mere fact that it can be connected to his name is enough to use it against him. The problem that R’s (and Hill) have is explaining to the public what Rezko is in sound bites that make sense.
Morning PW!
simple question, as long as we’re gittin’ all worked up about scandal & stuff:
WHYOHWHY are deelay & ging-itch still able to grab so much airthyme?!?!
thas alright (tho, NO! it’s NOT!). but it does help us save ‘lectricity. the telly stays off more ‘n more these days in this house.
Don’t know much about this issue- but it appears that it’s about to move to center stage as this guy is investigated. If Obama has any dirt on him- better it come out now rather than after he wins the nomination. If he’s clean- then he needs to get cleared asap.
One purpose primaries serve is vetting candidates and getting the dirt out early before the opposition gets to use it.
Morning, everyone! Is there any coffee left? I brought bagels and salmon cream cheese.
That is what I’m thinking. Get it out and get it over with.
Adie, I’m reminded of one of Atrios’ favorite sayings: “There is nothing any Republican can do that will get them permanently banished from public life.”
Of course, that’s not true. If you stop being a Republican, that gets you kicked off the TV gabfests quicker than you can say “Lincoln Chafee”.
After Mukasey’s little performance on the Hill this week,
I would guess that any scandals on the Republican side
that might merit DOJ investigation
are going to be deep-sixed, shredded and hard re-partioned into oblivion.
I’m just curious…why did Obama buy the 10′ strip of land? Perhaps getting to that would help clear this up.
Focusing on the positive, the more people get to know Obama, the more they like him. The polls continue to reflect that America wants a real change, and a leader who can inspire us and bring us together to do it. Identity politics is proving not to be as powerful as the desire of Americans to move forward. White, black, women, men want to come together.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..479/453121
“Obama Leads Big in Virginia, Maryland Hotlist
by SusanG
Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:28:46 AM EST
Two Survey USA polls were released yesterday for February 12 primary states, with good news for Obama.
Virginia. 2/7-8. 588 Likely Voters. MoE 4.1%. No trend lines.
Obama: 59
Clinton: 39
Undecided: 1
In Virginia, Clinton leads in seniors, Obama in voters under age 65. The two candidates are tied for white voters; Obama leads 7:1 among black voters. He also leads among both men and women.
Maryland. 2/7-8. 737 Likely Voters. MoE 3.7%. No trend lines.
Obama: 52
Clinton: 33
Undecided: 7
Uncommitted: 6
In Maryland, the two candidates split white voters, with Obama leading 4:1 among blacks. Clinton leads among seniors by 15 points, Obama leads by 39 points among voters 35-49. SUSA cautions: “If younger voters do not vote in the numbers here forecast, Obama’s margin is overstated.”"
Is there any connection between Rezko and the $300,000 below asking price on Obama’s $1.65 million home at the same time of the sale of the adjoining lot to Rezko’s wife?
This is another contrast between Senators Clinton and Obama. The scandal factor has been fully vetted by the Rs, and their conclusion is there is much more dirt on Clinton compared to Obama. The contrasts are becoming more apparent every day.
And, rwcole, the reason Delay and Gingrich are getting more airtime is because they are experts in Clinton dirt.
Essentially, what it all boils down to is this:
Obama got money from Rezko, just as Hillary got money from Norman Hsu.
In neither case is there any evidence that favors were performed as a result. (In fact, Obama worked against Rezko’s interests.)
Newborns survive because they’re innocent and cute. Hill has proven that she can take a punch. Barack can put up or shut up and since it’s Ali “you call that a punch” above him let him put up.
Re Matt Lauer…Thanks for the opening. How much can his judgement be questioned when he is willing to bring skinny, delusional Ann Coulter on for her shrill, B*** political opinions. I really think he has gone as far as he can with his nice guy image; he has used his famous HRC interview (”hugh right wing conspiacy”) so long for his own self-promotion most of us can quote it verbatim by now.
Wow! You really want another Bush term, don’t you?
Yes and yes and yes.
Super Texas coming in March, (4th), most likely all these others will more than offset Obama’s gains now. Half of Mexico now living in Texas.
I don’t see a big difference between Hillary and Obama and will support either. Let the best person WIN!
That’s actually Ali’s famous “GET UP SUCKA!” moment from when he knocked down Sonny Liston. I love that photo, and so obviously does Barack Obama. :-)
Works for me!
You can indict a ham sandwich in the country and hardly a person hasn’t something in their closet.
I would like to know what some of these legal eagles and prosecutors don’t go after those who are taking away our rights, and abusing our people.
No cop in NYC has ever done time for any of the murders of the many blacks. Ha?
And how about all the illegal stuff that has gone down in the beltway. Where are the prosecutors when you need them?
We have 2.5MM people in prison and most are there for victimless crimes. Prisons are the fastest growing industry in this nation… most others are barely staying afloat.
Can we have some justice please?
Was Obama set-up?
Not as far as anyone can see – the house was on the market for a while, he made the highest offer – and it’s not a neighborhood where most people buy houses that expensive (I lived for two years about 6 blocks away).
I heard – but did not see myself and don’t have a link – thet the realtor has given interviews on TV and said it was the highest offer.
See ArchPundit’s primer. He answers that there. (For one thing, the Obamas paid above market value on the ten-foot strip of land that was part of the deal.)
By the way…
How does someone know in advance that another person is to be indicted?
Can someone please tell me who is being indicted next week?
About a year ago, there was a lengthy article on the Obama thing in Harper’s, I think. As I recall, the conclusion was less about scandal than “he should have known better” for such a smart guy. A sort of poor judgement conclusion.
Morning, Siun!
Would you make yourself king and then retire? How sure are you that there won’t be a third term?
What the hell is market value? That is a very fluid concept ain’t it?
MSNBC just had on a reporter from New Orleans who said that turnout is practically non-existent – jeez, it’s like they’ve lost faith in the system for some reason…
This is news??? That most people are greedy and after fattening their bank account? Isn’t that what repugs live and die for… profit?
Did Obama go looking to purchase the strip of land, or did someone come to him and tell him he should buy it because, because, because….?
Between the above post and this link…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..838/445627
…all questions are likely to be answered.
As Siun has been pointing out a lot around here, the Rezko story has been investigated for a few years now, and they aren’t finding anything wrong with Obama’s behaviour. I trust Fitz to find out if there was anything wrong here, otherwise, there’s been enough vetting of this one, and Barack has passed the test, so ready to move on now. How about you?
It hangs on my wall. God he was so young and beautiful and he hit one of the worlds hardest men once!
Can someone please tell me who is being indicted next week?
Larry Flynt?
You’re right.
I would like any candidate for my party to be thoroughly vetted before we run them for President. If there is nothing there, fine. I want to know before I vote in the Texas primary.
More then Rezko, I want to know will he prosecute Bush administration officials who have broken the law!!! I want to be sure he will not be cozying up to Republicans once elected by turning a blind eye to these felonies. Are we not a nation of laws??? Let him speak to that!
Also, in Illinois and in the US Senate, he has ducked votes on important women’s issues regarding the right to have an abortion. He has tolerated outspoken anti-gay people in his campaign, I would like to here him speak to these issues. I would also like him speak to the role of his Attorney General and repealing Bush policies regarding presidential records remaining sealed.
A fluid which is flowing downhill very quickl;y at the moment.
So this explains Obama running Harry and Louise type ads against Hillary?
It’s a close race with both candidates using any shred of a story to raise negatives of their opponent
It’s politics 101
Nothing to see here, move along
My family owns low income housing. Mostly senior citizen developments. Beautiful apartments and waiting lists a mile long. This is in central NY. I can tell you that it helps to be friendly with local politicians. The paperwork to get one approved is astounding. Maybe it’s just the difference between Chicago and my rural community but there has never been even the hint of anything improper. But, to get someone to look at your application and make a decision in your favor is a challenge. We would not have succeeded in getting the first project off the ground if not for our county legislator hounding state officials. Nothing nefarious about it. The apartment complex is an asset to the community. I don’t know what my point is other than to understand Rezko wanting to befriend politicians.
I’m sure you’re right. But it just boggles my mind – the smug, self-righteous, selective blindness, and unmitigated GALL of these %#@*!!!
it’s just quite extraordinary to me, speaking as an ethologist.
in a sickening, sickened way, i am utterly amazed at how they can manage to do it with a straight, or is it pseudo-strait-laced, face.
i comfort myself by believing that, surely, i sleep better at night than they.
then i arise and fight them another day…
rinse & repeat…
never give up…
N.E.V.E.R.
Pessimism will get you nowhere. I suggest you stop buying into ‘he’s made himself a king’ meme. That is sooooo far from the truth. He’s barely hanging on to any relevance. He’s now clinging to McSaint which is a reversal from 12-18 mos. ago.
And, PW, this is somewhat OT, but I couldn’t help but notice that Reid is doing exactly what I voiced he would do wrt FISA…another 15-day extension. He’s forcing the filibuster or a complete breakdown in negotiations. A lot of progressives hate him for this, but it truly was/is the best strategy. He (and Pelosi) are taking advantage of the the minority’s ever-decreasing position. JMO.
Some politicians, finding they’ve made a mistake, a misjudgment, a misstep, step back and acknowledge it and clean it up and move on, the better for the life experience.
Some politicians, finding they’ve made a mistake, a misjudgment, a misstep, stubbornly cling to the righteousness of it and make no apologies and point fingers elsewhere.
Thanks for this posting, PW. The most important lesson I ever learned from my late F-I-L, both a prosecutor and a criminal defense atty in his day, was that there are always two sides to everything and you’d better be sure you consider both before making judgments.
The Rethugs like to scream their side so loudly they’ll drown out, overtalk, out-spin the other side. But truth will out….
Obama/Edwards ‘08
UGH! Colin Powell’s saying he might back Obama.
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..endent-in-‘08/
Barack, stay away from this clown at all costs. Seriously, look at his history in Vietnam all the way up to the lies he consciously told to the UN, in order that his war profiteer buddies could steal Billions from the US Treasury, all at the expense of hundreds of thousands of lives. Many of those killed in Iraq are you daughters’ ages and younger.
Please, we must stop letting this dangerous man get away with his nice guy image. Don’t believe the Powell hype!
Hey PW! interesting post!
We know the Rs will go after anyone we put out there – and truth will have nothing to do with what they say and claim.
Oooo…Nice. Double-Ding!
OT – the digg link at the top took me to an error page. anyone seeing the same thing?
SanderO:
If the prosecutor running the grand jury is ethical (as is Patrick Fitzgerald), you DON’T know that before it actually happens.
See, for instance, his speech to reporters on announcing the five-count indictment on Scooter Libby:
How about the chances of a backlash, thus boosting Obama’s chances?
Anyone?
p.s., I like yer ticket, Sunshine, tho I have to admit I’d vote for Hill in a sec., in the General, no qualms…
Rezko – feh.
If that’s the best they’ve got – and it must be, because if there’s one thing Repub’s do well, it’s oppo research – bring it on.
Should take about 5 minutes to knock it down. The Keating 5 issue, however – what the heck, let’s shine a little light on *that* one, eh?
Look, I do not want to get back in the weeds over Rezko, but to claim the house deal was a about a ten-foot strip of land is, to put it politely, hooey!
Do you have any links on this?
The only time I saw Hillary throw an elbow at Obama re: Rezko was during a debate when she said he went to work for a slum landlord. This was after Obama took a shot at her for being on the Walmart board.
Obama/Powell ‘08? Or maybe Secretary of Defense. Obama’s moderate stance attracts Republicans, like Lieberman. They know he will roll over for them.
there ya’go! ;->
Not pesimissm,reality. I play every game from begining to end. The quickest way to lose is to think you can’t. Suprise is always the best strategy. It masks weakness and overwhelms strength.
Powell should be in jail or indicted for war crimes.
Does he think he can curry favor and distract people from his disgusting unethical and unlawful behavior by support a brother?
I hope if he tries to get press on this that Mr. Obama, tells him, thanks and no thanks until he has paid his debt to society and fessed up to his part in the murder of 100 of thousands of people. Powell played his part in war crimes.
Obama/Edwards was my first choice, and still probably is, but just read how Virginia Gov Kaine was hinting at Obama/Webb which is interesting, and I might like that as well. Interesting…
If it’s gonna be Edwards, I wish they announce now or right after these few primary/caucuses, which Obama will likely win anyway. I still worry about OH and Penn, since Terry McAuliffe built powerful machines in those state while he was DNC chair. Of course, in all the smaller state where Terry eliminated DemocratIC offices so he could build up the big state machines, Obama’s dominating. Obama could use an Edwards boost going into the next big states.
Both Hill and Obi have Lieberman black marks. That’s not a good thing. Progressives and most dems can’t stand Lieberman.
Inducement of boredom’s not a bad weapon either.
hence part of the reason for my question at #53.
Can’t stand the sight of Colin Powell. He could have made a difference. His country needed him and he let us down. The big question is ‘why’?
Yeah, that’s all they got. LOL! WRT the Keating 5, I would suggest that we don’t lower ourselves into the muck with them. It’s counter-productive. We as a nation have some very serious problems to be solved or, at the very least, addressed and discussed. It’s evident that a majority of Americans want to prosper and be prideful of their country again. Looking backward won’t achieve anything that Americans so desperately NEED right now.
Yup, yup, yup.
This isn’t a game.
so??? levels the playing field tw’ them.
HOW could that possibly be a strong enough flaw to drive progressives to the repubble tent?!?! eeeewwwwww!
Oldgold: Well, the house has already been dealt with, as Siun mentions. Again, go check out ArchPundit’s primer.
Personally, I’d feel much better having Webb as chair or member of Senate committees in the new strongly Democratic Congress. It’s going to take strong leadership in both the White House and the Congress to clean up the mess the Rethugs have created these last years. Strong, articulate voices, too, to talk to the TweetyBeards and Timmehs.
Lieberman is political dead man walking.
Keating was a legit scandal and McCain should be called on it – he’s created an aura of mr good maverick that any D candidate will have to puncture since the media sure won’t.
Colin Powell made his bone in helping to cover up the My Lai massacre.
His country needed him and he let us down. The big question is ‘why’?
Habit?
With Bloomberg making the so-called ‘news’ in the last couple of days, I have to wonder if that little pow-wow he and Senator Obama had in the coffee shop or diner several months ago will produce something. Obama/Bloomberg? Think about it. It would be interesting and beneficial to Obama specifically.
Like totally OT.
I just took these photos of the wild turkeys and their bbf, a male peacock.
The peacock has been hanging with the turkeys for six months now. He is always bringing up the rear. Poor fellow.
http://www.dahothouse.com/media/birds.jpg
I had initially ruled out Clinton because of her pro-war vote. (And don’t bother to tell me she was suckered by Bush. THAT — being suckered by a dunce — makes it worse.) But in the past month, I really HAVE come to despise her. Why? Several things, but two stand out: 1. Refusing to debate on MS/NBC because of Shuster’s “slur” on Chelsea. (First of all, Chelsea is no longer a CHILD, and is, in fact, 28 years old.) Yet she just loves McCain, which Bill reiterated — he said they liked each other so much, it would be hard to fight mean with him. Yet in 1998, McCain said (in public) that Chelsea was ugly and was the product of Hillary and Janet Reno. 2. Agreeing to debate on Fox. After all the lies THEY have told about both Hillary and Obama?
To me, this smacks of REAL desperation.
Ah, yes, the Keating Five. Of which McCain is one.
The whole reason John McCain adopted his “straight talk” pose was as a last-ditch effort to save his political career after he nearly got taken down by this scandal.
imho, that’s unfair. i think we ALL know what spirilis is saying at 59, and that it’s perfectly serious, and intelligent strategy.
“ABC News’ Jonathan Greenberger Reports: Former Secretary of State Colin Powell confirmed reports that he and Illinois Senator Barack Obama have met to talk foreign policy.
“True, I’ve met with Sen. Obama twice,” Powell said on NBC’s Meet the Press. “I’ve been around this time for a long time and I know everybody who is running for office. I make myself available to talk about foreign policy matters and military matters with whoever wants to chat with me.”
In late April, Howard Fineman reported in Newsweek that Powell and Obama–who is seeking to the Democratic nomination for president in 2008– had met at the urging of mutual friends: “Powell has had a history of offering his expertise to anyone who is interested, but especially fellow African-Americans, since there aren’t many blacks in the top ranks of the foreign policy establishment.”
When asked on Meet the Press about his future plans, Powell did not rule out a return to government service and refused to commit to supporting a Republican in 2008. Russert did not ask about Fineman’s claim that Powell would endorse Obama in the general election if he receives the nomination.”
Obambi needs Powell’s added testosterone and his ability to attract Republicans. All Hillary has is Wesley Clark. Its a no brainer.
mebbe i’m naive AND nuts, but i regard a Colin endorsement as a non-issue.
Boredom will lead to surprise. Trust is a luxury I’ve never been able to afford. (I bought it once and that was as close to dying that I’ve been to since I drowned at eight.)
Maybe we could get Mr Powell to visit the Lake for a chat?
This needs to get some publicity…when and where did he say that?
“Yet in 1998, McCain said (in public) that Chelsea was ugly and was the product of Hillary and Janet Reno.”
i cannot find a thing you say to quibble with.
agreed agreed agreed ;->
Your not naive…a Powell endorsement is a great thing, if it comes after HRc is vanquished. Then Obama can move to the center and get all those disaffected Republican votes and win the election. That is all this is about….right? Winning. Who cares about complicated things like policy, at least we can have change.
Obama states a simple fact. Indisputable. Hillary responds with a bogus made-up story? How does that compare?
Is she not just doing what others (not Obama) have been doing to her and her family for years? Shows a lot about each one’s character and ability to handle pressure IMO.
It’s all a game and only game theory will get you through it. Do you think death is the END? Is it optimism to think life is shit and then you DIE? If it’s not fun DON”T DO IT!
McSaint is calculating to be sure. And I agree whole-heartedly with you that his “Straight Talk Express” was employed for the reason you have suggested. I think, if Obama in the nominee, it will be worked into the discussion, but in a very veiled way and only to put the concept into undecideds minds. I really don’t think it will be a campaign issue above that, unless of course, the Rs push Reszko more than they should. Like I said, if Obama becomes the nominee, the race will be very, very interesting. If it’s Clinton, I’ll be able to sleep because the outcome is a foregone conclusion. :(
Rewind:
George W. Bush assured the nation in a televised address that “our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over.”
I would suggest that we don’t lower ourselves into the muck with them. It’s counter-productive. We as a nation have some very serious problems to be solved…
With all due respect, how does one debate a Repub without lowering oneself into the muck? The problems which, as you say, must be addressed, are themselves the result of Republican “muck”.
Though probably unrealistic at this point, I’d *love* to see a Democratic candidate with some ‘junk-yard dog’ in him/her…
http://www.attytood.com/2008/0…..bee_1.html
That was all over right wing talk radio for months. Rush loved it.
hey spirilis! How ’bout “guarded optimism?” Helps keep puttin’ one foot in front of t’other, at least in this household….
When looking at all the candidates, we really need to realize that none are – or are likely in the near future to be – our saviors. We’re the ones who will change this country not the pols. And with the amount of money needed and the media game as it is, all candidates will have issues. So we pick as best we can based on our standards and then continue to push for progressive reform. And we call out the real scandals like Keating and fight back against the fake ones which the Rs love to push.
An article by David Corn in 1998 about McCain’s vicious Chelsea remarks:
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html
If one approaches politics from the standpoint of – say – a naturalist- then one can get a clear mind about the activity..
Politician
Species found in many western nations. Has built a habitable ecosystem living under and behind rocks- perhaps the world’s most aggressive animal species- will use any available weapon to injure other members of the species without obvious provocation.
Unfortunately, Powell has been able to create a very popular persona for himself. I used to fall for it, but once you look into his past, and now it being revealed the he knew he was saying lies to the UN, it’s become he’s a neocon operative to the highest order.
I worry that Obama might fall for this and let Powell influence his decision-making.
I’ll give you that it is a game of strategy, and to play the game requires one to be exceptional at strategy. I’ve learned in life that many believe they are exceptional game-players, but they really aren’t, to their demise.
“and really, the chances of this turning into a Whitewater-style witchhunt are slim.”
Yeah, RIGHT. The GOP makes it a sport to turn even the most imaginary improprieties into national scandals. Hillary isn’t the one to worry about, folks. It isn’t even the GOP to worry about. Obama himself has to come to the realization that he is fair game for any little imaginary spot on his admittedly less-than-perfect record. If he’s having problems with putting this Rezko thing to bed, he’s not ready to handle the full onslaught AT ALL.
Yup. He also sucked up to the media, big-time.
From John McCain’s Wikipedia entry:
Which is why the media wuuuuuvs him so much.
Not So Fast
From FDL just a few days ago
“Nobody’s Hands Are Perfectly Clean in Politics”
By: looseheadprop Wednesday February 6, 2008 4:30 pm
Barack Obama, for his part, went to Rezko for “advice” about how to buy a house he cannot afford and “poof” Rezko’s wife pays full price for a portion of the property and Obama gets a discount on the house. A while later, he bought back 1/6 of the lot from her for 1/6 of the price she paid for it. How is that different from an interest free loan equal to the amount paid for that 1/6 of the lot? According to MyDD, Obama pays for the landscaping of the Rezko lot and may have been using it to park his cars because his neighborhood does not allow on street parking, in which case how is this different from rent free occupancy of the land?
More at ww.mydd.com
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/4/20117/25087
Pages 51 and 52 of the Landmark ordinances show how many proofs and other forms of extensive documentation are required in order to subdivide the land. Can any rational person believe the doctor would have been willing to go along with having his property sub-divided, and all the work and time involved, without compensation and assistance? Who paid for this?
With Michelle sitting on the Landmarks board, Commission approval wasn’t expected to be an issue, even though I have not located notice of the Public Hearing from any of the involved boards. From there it would go to the City Planning Board and the Zoning Boards, which also require public hearings. Each of these steps average between 6 weeks and 3 months to complete.
The “Michelle” referred to is Obama… The same Michelle who said on national television that she was not certain of she would support Hillary if she were the nominee.
Wal-Mart board, Rezko, charges and counter charges are great. They help us avoid discussing universal health care, pre-Kindergarten programs for all kids, health care for illegal immigrants, preserving a woman’s right to choose. Issues are so BORING…..lets talk about Keating 5, how about this, the BCCI scandal….it was never resolved after John Kerry led an investigation that found nothing.
The right always runs with people who did lousey in school and are dim, Bush 41 Raygun, Bush 43, Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle and now McCain who came 4th from the bottom at the naval academy.
Contrast that with Clinton, a Rhodes scholar, Obama, Harvard Law Review and so on.
I guess smarts don’t count.
I agree. A Powell endorsement is a good thing. Powell hurt everybody, Dem Lib Repub not by bad acts but through disappointment. He was one that got Georgie trust.
* cough * FISA * cough * executive over-reach * cough *
Me too. I worry about both Dems, frankly, even though I feel I can virtually equally support both/either.
WHOEVER wins, in my slightly more perfect image of a seriously messed-up world, MUST work closely WITH the best Progressive minds in the party.
Howzzat?! Part of my own “guarded-optimism” scenario.
This is what this post of mine is about — getting the facts out there before the GOP/Media Complex has a chance to lie about them.
John Kerry wanted to actively fight the swiftboating, but his political team advised him not to do so. Obama’s not that reticent.
I find it really interesting that McCain, who viciously attacked the child of the president, and whose own daughter was personally attacked by the Repubs…bonded with the Repubs (his attackers). Just like he was tortured, but wants to bomb and kill people…he just doesn’t want to torture them. This man is irrational and basically really mean. He really seems to suffer from as Ecahn said, Stockholm Syndrome.
Yeah, but over-emotional junk yard dog mentality best describes the philosophy of the current administration (I offer dead-eye Dick, Addington, Bolten (John) and Rumsfeld as my examples), and look where that got us? I prefer a leader with balance and judgment, a person who can weigh both the positives and negatives of taking either an aggressive or balanced stance on particular issues.
He who frames first wins.
Unfortunately there are inaccuracies in all of that. The lot that Rezko’s wife purchased is a corner lot and the neighborhood allows on street parking (I lived 6 blocks away) though it does not at the moment due to secret service protection.
The lot is – in Chicago land records – a separate piece of property and has been for a very long time. You can search the records yourself as Archpundit did. And you can read the details here.
Do you know that the pose Ali is in lasted for only a split second? Barely a camera shutter? One of the most fortunate spit seconds any photographer has ever had the good fortune to capture.
Yea, I wish people would quit bringing up Rezko, so we wouldn’t have to keep debunking the same points over and over again. Then we could talk about the “issues.”
BTW, have you spent time going though Obama’s Issues pages? There’s a lot there so it’ll take a while. Lots of good and innovative stuff, and some mediocre stuff for me also:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
Hillary’s isn’t as detailed as Barack’s, and has some nice things also, but for me, more problematic issues than Obama:
http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/
A Powell endorsement is a good thing…. He was one that got Georgie trust.
Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report Powell wrote: “In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent.” Powell’s handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as “white-washing” the atrocities of My Lai…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M…..stigations
MyComments: As I said, that was already dealt with by ArchPundit’s primer.
And again, is there any evidence that Obama did any favors for Rezko as a result? Is there? No.
“best” ??? “first” not so much. Never.Give.Up.
I only hope Obama can go after the lawbreakers in the current administration as hard as he threatens to go after those that swift boat him. He has not said anything about bringing any current bush officials to justice. How about a firm statement regarding opening up the presidential archives. He could at least do that. I am glad he will fight for his own good name, something kerry did not do, but what happens after that? Is he really tough enough?
To be fair, Pie-in-the-sky, return-to-religion, crossing-the-aisles rhetoric was what got us George Bush, so I’m not ready to go for Obama until he tells us how he’s going to do all this effectively. It reminds me too much of Nixon’s “I have a secret plan to end Vietnam but I’m not telling you” technique in 1972.
I’m not a pessimist. Dennis is my man! He is optimism made man. I don’t like to kill anymore. That leaves disgruntled people at your back, which is cause for extreme caution. Witness Dennis’s problems with his congressional seat. He is NOT being threatened by a repug.
There are a lot of stories around about McCain being really rather unstable – and even he jokes about his bad temper:
3. Sen. McCain Repeatedly Called Sen. Pete Domenici (R-NM) An “A**hole”, Causing A Fellow GOP Senator To Say, “I Didn’t Want This Guy Anywhere Near A Trigger.” “Why can’t McCain win the votes of his own colleagues? To explain, a Republican senator tells this story: at a GOP meeting last fall, McCain erupted out of the blue at the respected Budget Committee chairman, Pete Domenici, saying, ‘Only an a–hole would put together a budget like this.’ Offended, Domenici stood up and gave a dignified, restrained speech about how in all his years in the Senate, through many heated debates, no one had ever called him that. Another senator might have taken the moment to check his temper. But McCain went on: ‘I wouldn’t call you an a–hole unless you really were an a–hole.’ The Republican senator witnessing the scene had considered supporting McCain for president, but changed his mind. ‘I decided,’ the senator told Newsweek, ‘I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger.’” (Evan Thomas, et al., “Senator Hothead,” Newsweek, 2/21/00)
Yeah, but over-emotional junk yard dog mentality best describes the philosophy of the current administration (I offer dead-eye Dick, Addington, Bolten (John) and Rumsfeld as my examples), and look where that got us?
I respectfully suggest that if you were to substitute the word “them” for “us” at the end of the above-quoted cite, the answer would be that it got “them” into power for eight years…
Yupper.
I remember when the first Bush-Kerry debate happened in 2004. We all had memories of how the press spun the Bush-Gore debates; pundits who in real time had praised Gore’s performance would later pretend that Bush had actually won, thus spinning the campaign narrative.
We got out there and spun right back. As the debate was happening, we took notes, got our letters to the editor and online comments prepped, and got it on the record that Kerry won and Bush lied his ass off.
We headed the GOP/Media off at the pass, and they didn’t like it one bit.
Speaking of problematic:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/…..upport.htm
I have yet to see anyone address the issues brought up in this document. Hillary is the obvious choice.
I agree, the man is mentally off and needs some psychiatric counseling.
Bush/Nixon = Obama?? Please.
Anyone can run for president. Who is going to vet them?
The people do as the dirt comes out and they cast their votes accordingly.
I understand your point. I guess I just look at it from a different perspective. I want a different game plan. To employ the same strategies as the Rs makes no distinction between ‘us’ and ‘them’. I know I’m a better person than that.
Another gem from McCain’s past:
“The great thing about Alzheimer’s is that you get to hide your own Easter egss.”
Hardy-har-har.
And why isn’t his treatment of his first wife fair game
when describing McCain’s character?
Yet again, I think I understand where you’re coming from, and I totally agree. Except, at long last, one thing. Being an Ohio-an for the past 35+ yrs, I respect Dennis K. for the fine job he did in this campaign, but I’d have a hard time voting for him – too much lingering concern from his mayoral performance, sigh. I know. I know. I’m not being fair. I was really proud of him in this campaign, and wished the press had given him gobs more airtime. Lotsa wisdom and heart there in that fella. I’m glad he’s at least running for re-election to Congress. We need more people like that!
….
You guys are terrific. Back to lurk later, but now gotta go help sweetie drag a heeuuuge 2nd-hand tv in outta the garage, in some fashion that will not break both our backs. Wish us luck…
Hi everyone. On scandals: I am self-pimping now. I wrote my first Daily Kos post “Breaking: It is Not About the Money” before going for a run. It is about the recent Washington Post break down of the campaign expenditures of the Clinton and Obama campaigns (one of the two has $500,000 in parking fees) but there are other more important differences. There are already 4 comments (yeah) and 75 people have taken the poll. I would be curious what you think.
I hope the Rezko thing will run its course pretty quick. Rezko, Rizzo: I think it would have less staying power if the name were different.
As said, we have real crimes and lies and misdemeanors that should be the target: lying us to war, covering torture, wiretaps. Where is the outrage on these offenses? Let alone the wealth generated from an illegal war and sweetheart contracts. If we reflect on the earlier Christy thread, we can see that there are definitely things that matter and are at stake for our national life. Forget Rezko.
The Repug created scandles are really passe. Some things just start getting old and tired. The ugly scandles will continue to occupy the same Conservative crowd that wants to wallow in the mud. It’s just who they are. Will Dems allow them to gain traction is the question? I say pull the curtain back and show the wizard for what he is rather than trying to prove the lies are lies. The Right Wings feed on lies. They have no interest in the truth. None.
I think one way to change the game is to insist that our candidates fight back on the smears but use facts and positions. Being factbased does not mean being weak – and I hope either Clinton or Obama would recognize that McCain has a ton of negatives to be used without needing Bush/Rove style dirty tricks.
Actually the “secret plan” was in ‘68.
My mom was born in Chicago in 1918. She will be 90 in July. She, my dad, my older sister and I left Chicago for Seattle in early 1950. Her family still has ties to Chicago.
We were talking about Chicago Democratic Party politics on the phone last night. She described who she voted for and why from 1940, when she was 22, to this year. Describing Chicago Democratic Party politics as “the dirtiest north of the Mason-Dixon Line,” she said, “the corruption was so deep, so all-embracing, that nobody from Alderman up could escape its grip. Even now it seems to still be pretty bad.”
“For Obama to be as squeaky clean as he is, SAYS A LOT FOR THE MAN.”
Milly will be caucusing for Obama today in Burien. She watched parts of the KeyBank Obama rally on TV again and again yesterday, as she called other octogenarian friends, offering them a ride to today’s caucus.
Go, Mom! Go, Obama!
and I’m off to do errands … gotta get some household stuff done before we start getting returns from today’s events!
Thanks PW for an interesting perspective!
Yup.
My dad would sit at his open garage door and drink beer. It was quite irritating to see him waste time like that. I now find myself doing just that, watching my neighbors and children rushing to and fro. Serenity ensues and now I know what my dad knew. Doing nothing is often the very best thing to be done. When one is lost in the fog, staying put is the best thing you can do. No one falls off a cliff by sitting still.
I’ve agreed with you on most everything you’ve ever posted or commented on. You being from Chicago and me being from Downstate gives us sometimes-conflicted perspectives. Only ones hailing from Illinois and involved in the politics of this place, could possibly understand this environment. I’ve enjoyed reading you over the months.
Hey, we really don’t disagree all that much – and I’m just playing devil’s advocate to some extent.
However, I don’t think that it’s deniable that Democrats suffer, nationally, from a perception of being “soft”.
I’d settle for well-placed, well-crafted – even limited – amounts of in-your-face ‘You’re wrong, you know you’re wrong, and here’s *why* you’re wrong’ being inserted into the national discourse now and again.
It’s certainly time (if not a little late) for this type of discussion to enter into the Dem debates. And when the presidential debates come around, between the actual nominees…. yeah, I do wanna see *some* of that, if not more than a little of that.
laughing … my mom who has just passed 80 has a similar circle of Obama supporting friends and they all voted in CT this week. I was a bit startled by their enthusiasm for him … though I think my mom was really convinced by seeing Michelle speak!
ok … now to run
I missed something here. I don’t see the Bush and Nixon comparisons to Obama. Could you explain? Everyone says crossing the aisle (or they could build a wall and never the twain should meet).
I agree with you and your Mom! See my 138 to Siun.
I’m at that cafe in Dinkytown now–PH, do you know it? Cafe Expresso Royale…
That’s how you know. If you think your good, you’re NOT. That deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball.
Hey, PW, nice job of laying it all out with links, for those who are willing to go read them. I have already written here that LHP’s piece had a hit job feel to it, and I am glad to see that it will not stand as the sole word on the subject.
We need to study these facts carefully, because if Obama is the nominee we need to be prepared to defend him when we hear the roar of the swift boat motors coming after him. When some unquestioning journalist writes about the attacks on one of the cable news sites, or the MSM hangers-on like Politico spout tripe about the land deal, we need to bring up the link library and complain loudly.
We have got to win this election, End of analysis.
Thank you … downstate and Chi are at times “at odds” eh? (oh please bail out the EL! LOL!) Good to have you at the Lake!
Hi Biodun
So in effect, what you’re saying, is that Hillary Clinton’s seat on the board of one of the most anti-union companies in the world, one that has done so much to undermine worker’s rights, treated women in extraordinarily discriminatory ways and raped communities of much needed tax revenue to make one of the wealthiest families in the country even wealthier is not worthy of discussion so we can clear the way for them to make promises about what they WOULD do.
I understand that in this campaign many have taken the position that words speak louder than actions, but I’m not there yet.
Actually, I’ve addressed several things in the past here about that article. It’s a nice effort in theory, but putting “metrics” on one’s opinions is a little misleading IMO.
How about this one? eRiposte talks about “experience” as an advantage for Clinton. I think Obama wins on “experience” and that is perhaps the main reason I have now started to support him. eriposte puts him in 3rd, behind Edwards on this made up “metric.” The less time in Warshington, the better IMO. Obama has such a perfect combination of life experience, international, in the trenches community organizing, corporate, and now legislative experience to make the most grounded decisions as President. I don’t want someone who “knows how Warshington” works, especially after having spent my entire adult life life listening to people complain about how corrupt DeeCee, and then they keep electing the same people over and over again. How do people think things are going to better that way?!?! So by my metric, Obama wins in a landslide in “experience.”
There’s several others like this in that post. Obama is clearly the better candidate. See how easy that is?
They both stated simple indisputable facts.
And I still haven’t seen a response on my question about links.
I so agree with you, Jane.
Hi Richmond…Please check your inbox in a few. This is important…
In the summer of ‘68, I was fresh out of the Army. I had campaigned for McCarthy in Eugene Oregon in late Spring, but had heard Bobby Kennedy there. My best friend and I were so enthused, we went to SF to campaign for Kennedy in the Dem primary. We were sitting on a sofa, drinking beer, taking reefer tokes and hits of laughing gas in big plastic garbage bags,really pumped over Bobby’s victory, as we saw him killed on TV.
Later in the summer, I was thinking of going to Chicago to protest at the Democratic Convention. I called my mom, who lived in Annapolis at the time. She said something like, “Don’t even think of going there. The people there, running this convention – they aren’t Democrats, they’re CHICAGO Democrats.”
I didn’t go.
That is a cheap shot. Show me where I said anything close to what you implied I said.
He has the capacity to go there with McCain. He CAN’T in the primaries. That’s the single most important lesson he’s learned. He has some VERY politically-saavy advisors and he has campaigned and won in a volitale atmosphere here in the great (albeit dysfunctional) state of Illinois. He’s a survivor and a brilliant one, at that.
Everything has its season. ;)
Yea… what Jane said.
OK, I’ll play. I just googled “Clinton attacks Obama” and got this at the top.
Clinton right now has current WalMart lobbyist, and truly odious former Senator John Breaux doing ads for her now. Coupled with her defense of lobbyist influence in Warshington, I’m surprised at how people arrive to the conclusion that she’s gonna “fix” things in DeeCee.
Of course there’s a leap needed to believe Obama on this point as well, but it’s more like a little hop with him.
Why does it always come down to the lessor of two evils? hahahhaha
Great post! Did anyone read the NYTimes article about Obama and drugs. Turns out that it was much ado about nothing. I wonder what Jeanne Shaheen’s husband said after reading the article.
To Edward: I wish I could meet your mom! What great genes to still be so lucid at age 90! Many happy more birthdays for her!
Again, beware of being a member of a Board of Directors. That one can come back and bite you in the butt.
Now if Boards were as originally intended – people in the community there to give oversight to the corporation and make certain no funny stuff went on – it would be a good thing.
Now, I have no idea what a Board is for other than to say YES to the CEO and his self-interest. I guess it’s nice to get 30K or 40K per year for showing up a few times plus stock options. Be on four or five boards and you have it made for so little work. What a deal!
If you are on the Board of a litigimate nonprofit, you volunteer your time and expertise to assist them and you are selected from the local community. You put in many hours of value to the nonprofit. Whole different kind of person on these boards.
The Beltway thing is a virus that infected them all and connects them all (with very few exceptions).
They are politicians. That’s what they do. Lie down with whomever will get them ahead.
Ha! I don’t like debating with the unarmed. I’m a pacifist by nature, so have the last word. I submit.
Powell’s a good soldier! For those that think he will endorse a democratic candidate, think again. He’s certainly no Susan Eisenhower.
Interlocking boards… compensation committees… the whole corporate culture is putrid.
That link has nothing to do with the subject of this post.
In Louisiana we had (still there) the same kind of Democrats. We called them “the old regulars”. They got in office, stayed in office by hook and by crook – mostly by being crooked. They hated honest candidates. You could be certain they would lose.
The Landrieu family was one of the old regulars. Imagine that!
If there is much ado about Powell endorsing Obama now, there will be even more ado when he endorses McCain.
Good luck! Thanks for your kindness.
Phoenix Woman:
This is a great piece of investigative journalism…Kudos!
Prairie Sunshine, The great MSM @ work again!!!!
Biodun. I just sent one back at you.
Makes me glad I voted for Obama.
OT
Just talked to my sister, who is trying to caucus in Nebraska. The doors close at 1:00, she got to the site at 11:45 and is not sure if she is going to get it, the line is so long.
You have to wonder how things end up being the reverse of what was originally intended. Now the CEO “picks” his board and they say yes to his every whim (mostly financial) and there is NO, NIL, NADA, NONE oversight. Just corruption remains. Originally, just regular folks would have been on the board from the community, chosen by the community, to be watch dogs and make certain the CEO walked the straight and narrow.
Everything spirils downward!
WOW! What a story, ET! Glad you listened to Mom.
Our current Alaska version of that: I overheard an older Alaska Democrat at our local caucus say to another on Tuesday, “Thank God the Republicans have kept us out of power for 20 years. We’ve forgotten how to be crooks.”
His friend said something like, “I hope so, ’cause we’re back!” – as he looked at the Wasilla High School Gym fill with 30 times as many people we had anticipated for the caucus.
The crowd went 74% for Obama.
I recall many years ago when I wanted to set up a biz in spain (never did) the lawyer said that a corporation had to have a stated “social purpose”… how’se that for a novel idea!
How about this one? Took about 30 seconds…
http://www.suntimes.com/news/s…..23.article
And Team Clinton has continued questioning whether Obama gave back enough, even though the Sun Times has determined he gave it all back. That’s the Clinton’s issue now. The Hypocrisy…it burns.
It would be nice to debate issues, wouldn’t it?
Exactly what I was thinking!
It’s not yet in my inbox…remember we had this problem once before…*g*
EPU and OT with little encouragement from fellow firepups.
Although I know Rove is past tense in the current climate but I highlighted the $40,000 Rove will get to speak at the University of Iowa.
I suggested a non-violent response, commented to Irish Jim and other Firepups via state blogs.
We will blogswarm the event and get some progressive publicity ala CTBOB but got no response.
Apathy, I hardly knew you.
I’m sorry. At our house the “loser” has to clean up. Quitters ALWAYS lose so it was and still is a valid strategy to create a quitter if you’re standing at the edge of defeat. Never quit! Thanks for the play.
Adam Smith said, “The primary purpose of a corporation is to serve the community.” Where did that go?
this will probably get lost in epu land but this is STUNNING
reported on the lead at think progress right now, the vice president is declaring himself president
I kid you not, first he invokes ‘president of the senate’ and then he takes a policy differant the bush…mind friggin boggling;
FWIW Rove protest Feb.17 from this DFH
http://www.bleedingheartland.c…..iaryId=989
When Obama was a community organizer, in the trenches of a poor neighborhood in Chicago, Clinton was in fact on the Board of WalMart. He didn’t say there was anything wrong with that. Michelle Obama has been on several Boards of organizations that have done some shady things. Obama was simply pointing out a difference in their “experiences.”
Hillary shoots back with the “representing your slumlord” as a response to this, which is not fact. There’s quite a bit of dispute with that characterization of Obama’s relationship with Rezko. Not comparable.
BTW, here’s how it shook out across party lines last Tuesday in Alaska. There are 2x as many GOP registered voters in AK as Dems. You had to be registered for one of those two to vote – at separate venues – for your choice in your party’s caucus:
Barack Obama — 6,471
Mitt Romney — 5,177
Mike Huckaby — 2,596
Hillary Clinton — 2,138
Ron Paul — 2,004
John McCain — 1,837
It was a response to you saying you wanted links to Hillary throwing elbows at Obama. They both have elbows.
And when he took a shot at her for the WalMart board, it was after she had been trying to provoke him. She went on for a couple of minutes in her answer while he waited. Then when he started to answer she interrupted him and talked over him. You could see it pissed him off. It was rude.
The article is about Hillary attacking Obama for accepting campaign donations from Rezko. Apparently Obama thought accepting those donations was a bad idea too because he has been giving the money back.
OT Tentative deal in writers’ strike.
oops, wrong paste, this one goes on 186
“Lawyers with long experience at the court could not recall another case in which a vice president took a position different from that of his own administration.” To my knowledge, I don’t recollect it ever happening before,” said Richard Lazarus, co-director of the Supreme Court Institute at Georgetown Law Center.
Should be there now. Academic tubes clogged and hung over late into Saturday.
You know, I still don’t have it yet. You wanna check to make you did everything right?
I hope you will keep us up to date. That $ is an outrage. Many colleges have protested/withdrawn invitations in similar circumstances. I would cross the street to avoid seeing/hearing the man whom I deem to be very evil in the “people of the lie” sort of way. I hope you get some energy and numbers for your protest. Good luck.
cross-posting…*g*
Yep. Throwing elbows about “the topic of this post-” Rezko. Her campaign is still doing it.
I guess I will play the devil’s advocate. We really do not know if the Rezko stuff is a problem or not. The info has been coming out in dribs and drabs. I do not think anything has come out about favors to Rezko who looks like a hanger on for every public figure in Il. The real potential problem is the house purchase. The house has sat on the two lots since its construction apparently with the empty lot serving as the garden to the home. Many large homes are situated on two lots for privacy and noise reduction from streets. My understanding is also that the strip sold to Sen Obama by Mrs Rezko contained the driveway to the house and that a wall would need to be contructed to separate property owned by two separate people as required by building or zoning code. I do not see an ethics violation with Mrs Rezko buying a lot that is part of this homes garden if the proper codes and permits are obtained. My problem may be with the argument that the lot was purchased for X dollars which is full price and the house was purchased for X dollars under asking price. If this lot is to be an investment or building lot for Mrs Rezko the question is if the lot is large enough for a structure which would meet building covenant and set back with easements. Also was the value of the lot purchased by Mrs Rezko reduced in value when it was sliced up. I am aware that a real estate agent and a former Rezko attorney who bought it say it was not, but I thnk they may be a little prejudiced.
I truly believe that the newspapers, attorneys, neighbors, etc are sincere when they say there is nothing fishy, but the Sen is a favorite son. No one in Il wants to screw it up for him which is understandable, somewhat like in Texas with GWB. In no way do I suggest that Sen Obama is a dishonest so and so like GWB. Much of the problem of this purchase is the perception that something is questionable about it.
bonkers: The less time in Washington, the better? So that makes me the perfect candidate, right? Sorry don’t agree. Metrics are really all we have when it comes to the rhetoric. Another word for metrics: Facts. Compare and contrast, it’s in every middle-school kid’s vocabulary. The rhetoric against Hillary doesn’t add up to the facts. Time and time again I’ve read articles by people who compare ’stump speeches’ between Hillary and Obama, and the truth is Hillary uses FACTS, not rhetoric, to back up her effort. Obama can’t compete. You didn’t even address the ‘metrics’ of their voting records, their political contributions, etc. All you can do is say Obama is, by your unwrittenn/unproven standards, the best. If we were to come to the agreement that everything about their political histories were exactly the same, Hillary would still come out on top, because Obama claims he is NOT a political animal. Hypocrisy and obfuscation of facts counts high in how I approach a candidate. Last time I checked, Hillary has not attacked Obama on his political contributions or his voting record as venomously as Obama, despite their similarities. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
As for Bush/Nixon comparisons, how can you not see the similarities? Do you even remember “Compassionate Conservatism”? How is that different than “Uniting America”? Neither is unambiguous, neither has any foothold in the reality of American politics, 2008. How exactly was Bush supposed to be compassionate? How exactly is Obama going to Unite America, and how is it different from Lieberman, Bloomberg and Broder’s concept of the same (ie: complete capitulation). Nixon had a similar “trust me” plan in 68 (thanks for the correction) and fooled a bunch of people into it. He never got us out of Vietnam. I think Obama’s unity pony plan has a similar trajectory.
And, actually, It isn’t easy to defend Obama, not with your eyes open. Thanks for trying to address it anyway.
Here’s a link.
Tell me again how many days it is until January 20, 2009?
How does one find that on Kos?
Bonkers: Thanks for looking. On the list at the right, you can click something to read the next 30. Mine is at 48 or so, just about to fall completely off the radar. (I was pretty impressed that I got 82 or so to take the poll!)
Bonkers: Oh yeah, the link thingy – here it is. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/9/11642/09717 Total self-pimping, though I honestly think the issue is an important one in differentiating Clinton and Obama through the sort of expeditures they are making on their campaigns.
[Mod Note; link edited.]
That linky no work…says sorry. can’t find post.
That is a picture of the GREATEST on the wall behind Barack. I’ve never heard that he was ever anything but gracious outside the ring. He would fight for money to offset training cost with all comers. If you had the balls to step through the ropes the fastest hands in boxing would hit you. Barack and Hillary voluntarily stepped into the ring. Sympathy for either is waste.
Shit! This is my techno day! I will go look, meanwhile, if you didn’t get my email, I will go soak my laptop in the tub to wash out the tubes.
I think you can look to my posts on them amassing too much power to just give it awy, this falls right in line to that point, so if you you want to know who the next president is going to be?
don’t be surprised if it’s cheney
do you know bush made the totally bizarre claim that cheney is the best vp in history?
seems like a preperation for a cheney presidency
try this one – I’m at 51
http://www.dailykos.com/search…..age+%3E%3E
No email yet. Like I said, it’s pretty important…
This doesn’t matter. it would mean that only old timers should win because of their record of experience.
Rubbish.
You need to be smart and a good thinker and ethical. You don’t have to have a long track record. A president has a cabinet to support him or her.
If Bush can “run” the country… virtually anyone is qualified to. He lowered the bar. Experience is no longer a metric. Neither is wisdom.
Shrub stating Cheney is the best veep in history doesn’t say much coming from someone who doesn’t know much about history. Bet he says Babs is the best mom ever, too.
that’s sort of like when your kid recks the car and you say, ‘will if jr can drive anyone can”
bush didn’t run the country he recked the country
Tentative settlement for the Writers Strike
Perris,
I don’t think it will come to pass. Too many big guys won’t let them pull it off. They can cave in in the congress to all sorts of things, but I doubt that they will do such an open coup d’etat. They did it in “secret” twice and may try again, but I don’t expect an “illegal” power grab. It won’t play.
I hope you’re wrong, way wrong. Dear God.
It is a beautiful sunny day and I need some natural vitamin D. Molly and I are going for a walk – more like I walk and she sniffs everything around her. I’ll check in later.
So you’re JTD?
Maybe you can bring Molly to Washington. Lot of things don’t pass the sniff test there.
how many times did we think bush would never get away with what he’s done?
he has contempt of congress, he hires people who have already been denied, he makes up data to start a war
when congress found out he made up shit to start a war, with no question, the worst thing a president can do, did they do anything about it?
did they?
no
they are counting on the yellow bastards in congress, they have proven to be yellow and they believe they will continue their yellow cowrdice
I used to wonder if they were going to give up the power too. But lately I’ve seen signs that they are spending some energy and making some plans to completely screw the next pres, which implies that they know the next will be a dem. I’m sure I can find the link eventually but it was a quote by Bush that he is planning to sign an executive order requiring the next pres to reveal how all money is spent. So, that’s what Rove is doing. He’s laying the groundwork to destroy the next pres and re-take in 2012.
I’ve been asked to take a deep breath with this so let’s leave it for another thread unless there is more info to raise the alarm rate higher
Point taken.
He ran the country into a ditch… for 99% of the people. For 1% he was super. But he was able to hold the office and carry off some sort of act as president.
I think Obi or Hill or Edwards or anyone running for pres is capable of running the country. Bush was the Manchurian candidate, I think. Not his own man. A mean and nasty creation, a bad actor and he can’t read a teleprompter either. At least Reagan could fake the part.
Richmond:
Now 51 is Mrsellers…that number isn’t static but rotated, it seems…
And, that’s why he was chosen. An empty vessel. And lazy, to boot.
Do have a metric on that claim?
Can’t find anything about Obama mentioning Hsu, Whitewater, the recent expose in NYT about Bill’s shady mining deal and the Clinton connections to Run Burkle. Nada. Zilch.
Obama’s Issues page is more detailed than Clinton’s. In debates, one problem he has IMO is that he hasn’t learned talking points for some issues and tries to give nuanced answers, since he knows what he’s talking about so well. The common critique that he’s “all speech and little action” is completely not true.
As I already said in a response to you, the time spent in DeeCee is one factor of many. If he didn’t have all the other things in his past and present, and what he’s saying the future holds, then I wouldn’t be supporting him.
Yes, a lot of the voting between the two is very similar. Obama is new there, and I am understanding of how much a new Senator can get done, and especially someone who has been planning a Prez run given all the societal hurdles he has to overcome given his skin color and background. Hillary has some of these same types of hurdles, so the voting records are wash between them IMO.
Campaign contributions has been distorted by pro-Clinton pundits and bloggers. Obama is shattering records for small, individual donors. Clinton is going after BigMoney much, much more than Obama. Another reason I like Obama and believe his words more than Clinton’s.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pre…..8;sortby=4
Biodun – I’m “Breaking: Its not about the money, folks” 61, going to 71, 710, 7100. Thank god I am not in the sex trade business, I suck at this sort of pimping, despite all the help of friends.
Is this the link you are talking about?
Apparently I’m the only one here who thinks the one being swiftboated is Looseheadprop. I always look forward to her posts, I value her views, and I happen to agree with her Rezko post. If we decide we can’t speak honestly with each other about our concerns re a given candidate for fear we’re giving the GOP ammo for attacks against our eventual nominee, we’re giving the opposite far too little credit for being able to figure this out for themselves and make hay of it. LHP was just getting the jump on them and bringing up something that hasn’t been adequately addressed by Obama himself. I (but perhaps no one else here) see the real estate deal as hinky. I could do an essay on the many reasons why, but it would be pointless. I’d just get back responses that akin to “all that has been dealt with already … next … ” — but it has not been dealt with in a way that satisfies me, and I’m a liberal. Just wait till the GOP weighs in.
Looseheadprop, I hope you’re out there because I want to thank you for all you’ve contributed to Firedoglake and I want you to know at least one person is sorry to see how your post has been received. I appreciated it and read it with great interest, which is my usual response to whatever you post. You are a credit to the progressive movement.
Thanks RBG (embarrassed) and Biodun, now, did you get my email(s). [I am drying off the laptop, the bath I think worked]
Yep:
Richmond owes you thanks for fixing that. I guess I can thank you on Richmond’s behalf…*g*
Good afternoon, all.
After 40 years of observing American politics and presidential elections, it occurs to me thus:
NONE of them do what they say they’ll do-even if they try, the opposition and turncoats will stop them-so all you can really derive from their statements and history is some sense of how they might approach a problem. Because they have no idea what is actually going to happen, and neither do we, so the question is, who would do the best at coping with an unanticipated problem, and why? The only certainty is that what any of them are saying is going to happen, is not going to happen.
IIRC, Nixon was president when the US withdrew from Vietnam in ‘73.
FWIW, the mods have also fixed the link in your original comment.
Hope the laptop feels better.
Nebraska caucus results: in 3 for Clinton, 7 for Obama
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..224/453352
No email yet…your institution needs to do something about its toobz…Jeez, who woulda thunk it, a prestigious joint like that…
Yeah, thanks again. I am blow drying it now!
Yes, he was the annointed/chosen. In part, because Cheney, et al came to Austin to do the grooming and solicitation. Then, the very polished and erudite Baker got himself down to Florida to ensure the outcome of the very rigged vote. The part I like about the Baker role is that now Baker has clearly lived to rue the day of his handiwork. What he wrought has not only been tragic for our country but has sorely embarrassed his good friend the Sr Bush. O what a tangled web we weave: Baker has also tarnished his own reputation by enabling and promoting the TX village idiot.
Makes you really miss some of the clever, witty, and pungent commentary of Molly Ivins. There is no pleasure in “I told you so” in these sad circumstances; but she surely knew how to keep up with the players and their sordid game.
Beezarre business. Maybe it is the CIA that is checking everything. :-) Anyway the answer is yes on J, if you want to tell, but not the whole world, if you get what I mean.
I Googled “obama whitewater” and “obama burkle” just now and you’re correct: He’s never dinged Hillary over Whitewater or Burkle. What are the details on the mining deal? That’s news to me.
Obama hasn’t used Hsu to bash Hillary likely because Obama’s finance director himself once pressed Norman Hsu for funds. Those funds were donated to charity once the Hsu scandal broke.
So yes, Obama’s not used the bogus Whitewater scandal against Hillary, whereas Hillary’s used the bogus Rezko scandal against him.
I don’t know whether Obama did or didn’t do ‘favors’ for Rezko but I think your “did not receive any personal benefits” is inconsistent with available info referenced in other progressive bloggers’ entries e.g.,looseheadprop at FDL as well as this mydd entry. It’s seems your defense of Obama consists of he hasn’t been indicted in the Rezko mess therefore …
I’m personally of the opinion there are many reasons (aside from his suspect home realty machinations) not to cast a vote for Obama and while I do not support Clinton either, but I believe thou protest too much here. I find his own responses on these matters to be just shy of pleading the fifth.
Agreed. There were many of us here thanking her, Jane, and others that challenge.
When it starts becoming clear there is no “there” in this case, perhaps it is time to move to other pursuits though, isn’t it? Not saying that’s the case with Rezko yet, but Fitz is on it, and it has been investigated a lot for the last few years. Seems we’d have found even a shred of impropriety on Obama’s part by now.
Plus, will this same focus be applied to the Hsu-Clinton connection (Obama got money from him as well), or how about the recent NYT story detailing Bill Clinton’s connection with a mysterious mining exec?
“Vetting on our terms” is great for us, as long as it’s applied fairly. I tend to think for the most part FDL is one of the best at this. Siun and PW have doing great follow up to LHP’s post, so it’s all good!
Here’s the Mining-Bill Clinton story…
http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..1/31/6771/
The LHP piece seemed a bit of a hit job to me. But someone who comes from a prosecutorial background will make a case from whatever suits their objective, don’t they?
He had to buy that strip of land so he could park his cars there. In that ritzy neighborhood it is illegal to park cars on the street. You have to have a driveway and that strip is his driveway.
OK. Of course I know what you mean. Don’t worry…
You’re right, Alvord, I hit the wrong “reply” button. That wasn’t meant for you. Apologies.
This is incorrect. You cannot park cars there because of the Secret Service protection he receives. That changed sometime last winter.
The driveway is on the right side of the house–the lot is on the left side of the house.
Yes, I agree re Siun and PW. I did not mean to denigrate them with my comment. The swiftboating I was talking about is what I have seen elsewhere in the blogosphere, which has been fairly brutal toward LHP.
There has already been a focus on the Hsu-Clinton connection, but here’s one way I think the Rezko situation differs in terms of potential traction with the general public: a lot more people buy houses than run for office, so it’s a situation that people can look at and think, “Hmm, that wasn’t the way my house deal went.” I think the GOP is fully capable of making that resonate with many voters.
Perhaps for you there’s no “there” there — but my mileage differs as does, apparently, LHP’s. If we can see it that way, imagine how the less liberal voters will look at it once the matter has been run through the Rovian filter. And remember: the media treat just about any claim from political operatives as “free speech” and do little to challenge it (case in point: John Kerry’s military record). We can all pretend like this is no big deal, say we’re satisfied, let’s move on, but it hasn’t even begun yet. Not in earnest. And I think that’s what LHP was warning us about, then she supported that warning with some of her (to me, very real) concerns.
Bill did one dumb thing from what I can tell and that was saying nice things about the Kahzak President. Do you think Hillary would let him do that if she were President?
Siun upthread said she used to live nearby, and there always was street parking there. Apparently it changed around Obama’s house for Secret Service protections.
She debunked a bunch of other myths about this story. Check it out. And here’s a good one as well:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..838/445627
McCain/Bush better keep those Iraqi China plates spinning faster on top of those sticks or they’re gonna come crashing down.
Awakening Councils in Diyala Province have gone on strike.
They also have to see if Al Sadr is going to keep his cease fire in place on 2/23.
Also Turkey says they aint stopping till the Kurdish threat is done with and they are not to happy about not getting any support from NATO.
Bush McSurge-McCain says: THE SURGE IS WORKING!
-G
Still nothing? Very strange. We have had long email outages these last few days, and it has messed up a bunch of things.
Seems to me LHP’s objective is pretty clear: getting a Dem elected president. I think she said she was for Edwards, but will now vote for whomever is the nominee. Pointing to weaknesses that need to be strengthened is not counter to what Dems want; it is supportive of that goal.
The only thing Obama could got from Rezko–and if you read my primer it becomes clear–is that strip of land. And that strip of land was bought for above assessed valuation. You can still call that a favor because splitting land isn’t something that Rezko didn’t need to do for certain. However, it wasn’t done at some discount or such.
The essential part of the story about Obama checks out as well as The Sun-Times, NBC, and Chicago Tribune have been able to tell. It was incredibly stupid. However, Obama’s story is consistent with every fact I can find that is actually sourced.
The MyDD story is false on several fronts–especially about the Landmarks claims. The land was already two properties–I’ve done the searches with the Recorder of Deeds to verify this and Landmarks has no control over the sale of property. They can only review permits made to the city in historic neighborhoods for changes to the property.
Yep. Still nothing…Anyway I done do the deed, if you know what I mean…*g*
There’s that bit where Bill denied having a meeting and then saying he did. Just brought that story up in the context of this supposed “self-vetting” we’re gonna be doing in the Liberal blogs, so we can get it all out before the Noize Machined digs in too much. Is That Mining story worth further investigation by the blogosphere? Why now, right? If there’s something wrong, better get it out there now, just like Rezko, or so the theory goes…
I think the Hsu reference is unfair because the buying of the strip of land and the personal friendship does make it different. That said, the essential issues of any favors being done are the same. Slimeball tries to get in with popular politician and doesn’t succeed.
Thanks for the links and what I think is a much better treatment of the situation.
Don’t you wonder why Obama had the land appraised, then paid well over what the appraised value was when he bought that 10′ strip? People keep pointing to that as proof of how above board he was. I see it very differently.
I can imagine someone bent over laughing… or, someone really pissed. whatever…. I just went through and cleaned out about 175 emails so that the remaining zillion would slide through the tubes more easily, but maybe with the cold, the butter I put in as grease a while back is helping in the clogging rather than the sliding.
That’s fair. The comment thread was full of Howler Monkeys towards LHP.
I’ve really been trying to engage people on this issue because I think once people walk through it, one may (and should) question Obama’s judgment on the strip of land, but will generally find the way out that the wilder claims don’t have any evidence to substantiate them.
The MyDD piece was horrible though.
In the answers to the questions the Sun-Times submitted to him, he essentially figured out this all looked bad by that point and wanted to make sure it looked okay. I believe we call that rationalizing. Stupid, but not illegal.
That was incredibly stupid. He should have done without the 10 feet. No question about that.
That’s fine. However, as has been pointed out a lot around here since LHP’s post, many of her claims have been proven false. How long to we keep “vetting” this story?
If it goes on too long, without anything sticking at all, then we start getting into the “circular firing squad,” and then I start questioning the claim that accuser wants to “get a Dem elected.” At some point, It starts to seem like they want any Dem, as long as it’s not one Dem in particular.
Not saying that about LHP, just a general observation, and I’m starting to feel the Rezko story might be getting close to that.
I am staying out of this one today, guys (I hope, self-control), but frankly this is nuts. How about an assessment of the whole, look at things issue by issue: the war, the dying middle class, health care, open government, links to which lobbiests, appeal to new – and older voters.
Bill was arguing over is. I don’t think it was fun that evening for him and I think with her as President, he’ll be under control. Not my preferred outcome, but a good one compared to the other choices on the Republican side ;)
Bill in control? You gotta be kidding. I know a couple of people who went to WH dinners when they were there. The assessment: Hillary is brilliant, Bill is slime. This is a guy who cannot/will not be controlled.
This is not true. The driveway is on the right side of the house, the lot is on the left side of the house I cannot post a good picture, but I am willing to provide the address offline for Google Maps. I think the family does deserve not to have the address posted on-line.
Let me say, given the tenor of how many of these discussion have gone, these are good questions to ask. The fence is required as you mentioned. The permits were checked out by the Tribune and the interviewed the contractor who built it.
The house had been on the market for several months and apparently only had two offers with Obama’s being the high one. The lot had more offers including one that was just under Rezko’s offer by $25,000. The lot after the sale of the strip is 7500 feet and if you view the pictures of it, it is able to be developed. The requirements in that area must fit the historical neighborhood standards, but that is mainly outside materials and style and a bit of a setback from what I can determine.
I think it’s safe to say it was reduced in value, but given the requirements for space between the houses it might not be the that significant. If one were to create 4 row houses on the lot–which I beleive would fit the requirements, one could easily make a good deal of money. That’s pretty typical for the type of development in Chicago in general.
I think you nail it with the last sentence. That said, these guys are the guys who are part of the two papers teams who have investigated much of the Daley corruption and are pretty good researchers. It’s fair to say they might be homers, but they also have a healthy professional nose for a scandal.
Maybe it’s just me, but MyDD feels like the work of a hundred college sophmores. Honestly, that post about Obama’s house is like something out of Monty Python.
Washington Post endorses Donna Edwards!!!!
First, it wasn’t advice for a house he couldn’t afford. He went to Rezko–stupid yes–because Rezko had done a fair amount of development in the area. As it turned out. some of the work done on the house was done by a contractor Rezko had worked with.
Second, street parking was allowed until last winter when the Secret Service banned it. The driveway is on the opposite side of the house from the vacant lot.
The land didn’t need to be subdivided. It was two lots already and had been sold as two lots since at least 1985 according to the Cook County Recorder of Deeds. There was no subdivision of the lot or it would appear in those records as well. It does not.
Landmarks cannot control the sale of land or the zoning for land. They can only review permits for fitting the historical nature of the neighborhood. There are several other errors in the MyDD version as well–Landmarks is supported by taxpayer dollars.
The realtor on NBC discussed the listing and it was confirmed by the Tribune reporters nearly 1 year ago. The listing required that both lots be closed on the same day to ensure the owners weren’t stuck with the property. I don’t have the NBC video, but the Tribune story is linked in the Rezko primer. I can also provide the PINs to do a look up in the Recorder of Deeds, but I won’t post those publicly.
Well, see, I was just staying on topic for this post. But I agree that all those things need to be addressed — and, at least from my reading, have been. Just not in this thread.
I don’t know what Obama did or didn’t do, and I hope he is indeed innocent, but Hillary making one comment during a debate a month ago doesn’t seem very much like “pushing” the story.
Was the point of this post to slime the Clintons or clear Obama?
Or both simultaneously?
A quick note about the indictments. The indictments follow very similar patterns for Fitzgerald. They funnel into to the intended ultimate target. We saw that with Daley (which got stopped when Sorich wouldn’t flip) and we saw that with George Ryan. If you read through them the same pattern appears with Blagojevich being the target.
If there were an investigation of Obama, none of the current indictments given any indication that they are funneling to him.
Thanks
I didn’t follow the whole thread, just came in at the end, which is why I wrote that. In the end, neither is a perfect candidate, but nor was Edwards.
Thanks, this seems to make sense.
I put this in a comment earlier and will again here:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/s…..23.article
The Clinton campaign is undoubtedly trying to keep the Rezko name out there. Even now, they are now saying Obama hasn’t given enough money back. I took this post as a response to that and all the other chatter about this around the blogs.
My thanks at 274 was to archpundit (my reply button seems not to work — it is one of those days!)
Your final paragraph is one of the things that raise red flags for me. The owner insisted both closings had to be on the same day. Doesn’t that say to you that the owner was not viewing the two properties as separate deals? Really, think about it: how can an owner put up two lots for sale and then set a condition like that? How does the seller know he’ll have two people at exactly the same point in time ready to purchase and that they’ll both be ready to close on the same day? That kind of thinking is incompatible with the notion that these were separate deals. But the condition does explain why Obama went to Rezko for “advice” — which, to my eye, looks like another way of saying he was looking for a way to get the house without having to purchase both properties. Rezko had already been known to have deep and generous pockets, and he dealt in real estate, so Obama went to his speed dial and got his pal on the line. At least that’s how I think it’ll be presented by the GOP — and all those common folks who don’t have pals they can get to help them with their house purchases are going to look unkindly on that, if they’re so inclined to do so.
You know how we talk about DINOs and RINOs? Well, I think this deal was separate properties in name only. And with the property in Rezko hands, Obama could relax, knowing he had some control over whether and how the property was developed by the convenient co-purchasers of that corner (double) lot.
Also, isn’t it true that there was was no access from the street to the Obama property except through the Rezko lot at the time of the purchase? I think I read that somewhere, but don’t recall where. I have a vague memory of Obama having said it was a shared driveway.
Big turnout for Neb caucus. Having to hold some outside since so many people are showing up.
http://www.nebraskademocrats.o…..las-county
Another small, supposedly red state coming out in droves for….well we can all guess who they’re coming out for. We’ll know soon enough.
Take a look at the articles at ArchPundit on the property – here and here.
Let’s look at the property records as AP does and the actual situation … people are coming up with – and repeating – weird claims that just aren’t true. Question the wisdom of talking with Rezko, etc but please let’s not repeat inaccuracies about this case – any more than we repeat them about Clinton.
It’s not that uncommon actually. So you sell the house and not the lot–what happens. Vice versa? They could be sold to one buyer this way, but it allows them to ensure they are not stuck with one property or the other.
If you set it up as a condition of listing the realtor than knows that when showing the properties that will have to happen.
The thing is that Rezko didn’t have to purchase the vacant lot, there was already someone else who made an offer for only $25,000 less so Rezko’s participation in the deal was unnecessary. Obama went to him, stupidly, to get advice on the neighborhood because Rezko had developed a fair amount of property in the area.
No, it’s not true. The Rezko lot is on a corner. The complaint from the current owner is that the gate is by Obama’s house and the Secret Service is limiting access. Putting in another gate shouldn’t be a problem other than Secret Service worries. The driveway is on the right side of the house, the lot is on the left side. There is a carriage house with an easement with the driveway, but not the vacant lot.
Unless I’m missing something at those links, I don’t think they are responsive to my points. The history of the properties prior to the Obama deal does nothing to explain away why the seller — when Obama and Rezko made their deals — was treating the sale(s) as a package deal by insisting they be closed at the same time. If the seller put that condition on the sale, it would mean that Obama — if he didn’t purchase both properties — couldn’t purchase the one he wanted unless another buyer was ready at the same time he was and willing to close on the same day he did. It makes no sense, given what my experience has been in real estate deals. And, yes, I have had exactly that kind of experience (selling adjacent properties, with construction on only one of three properties).Either you are offering two separate properties or you aren’t. In this case it looks like the properties were very much linked in the seller’s mind, and therefore linked when it came to the buyers. Asking questions about this is hardly repeating inaccuracies. It’s asking why, and that’s pretty mild compared to what will happen when folks start explaining, not asking, why.
No, you’re not the only one. I went over to DailyKos and it was like entering a sauna.
I agree with the Kudos to LHP. However, on the Rezko thing, I think she may have given only half of the story. She usually does a much more thorough job of checking out her story before posting it. I would be interested to hear if she is still sticking by her story as full and fair, or whether she has an “update” to add.
Bob in HI
Thanks for the response. I saw the ABC ( I think it was this network) online and an aerial of the house. The address should not be put online. To me the left side lot is obviously the garden to this home. I thought I saw a drive on that side also but I must be mistaken. Old large homes used to have large formal gardens which are not really in style today. I can see that they may not have wanted that much upkeep on a home. Also surveyed lots on the original plat will always show as two separate lots even if a house is built on the middle of both. My home and driveway and an outbuilding sit on three lots and each lot has a separate appraisal and tax assessment as well as separate field notes in the deed.
The potential problem is if it looks like the Rezko’s decreased the value of their own property as a favor to the Obama’s. The Republicans are going to pick this apart with a needle. I do not want the Obama’s to go through a Whitewater sham. I know I am only a blog poster out in the internet but I would strongly advise them to do whatever they can to get this out of the way. Several things could be done easily such as hire a person who is familiar with complex real estate matters and is impartial such as a retired probate judge. If their is an ethical problems get a ruling from the Senate pronto. It may be slightly embarrassing but get it over and let the Repubs say it was dopey. So what. The Rezko indictment unfortunatley cannot be used as proof of no wrong doing because it is ongoing and may lead to other indictments. Sen Obama does not have to wait for that and should not.
My sense of it, after reading the bulk of it is that they were/are seen as two separate properties that could be sold individually or together, but the sale had to occur on the same day to fit the desires of the seller. What am I missing, and what new does this bring to the Obama story that has not already be discussed a zillion times?
Your point that Rezko didn’t “have to” purchase the lot because there was another offer (if the timing works out right with when that offer was made and Obama told Rezko about the property), it’s all the more troubling. A sign that Obama was wanting to control what happened on the land adjacent to his, and he hand-picked his neighbor.
Glad to know about the driveway. Thanks.
Anybody know who made the other offer on the lot and what their history was re development?
This article strikes me as dishonest. You say the Clintons are pushing the Rezko story–maybe they are, but you don’t give any evidence. Also, you try to paint Clinton with the Rezko brush by saying she has political associates who have taken money from Rezko. Even if that’s true, what about Obama’s associates who took money from Rezko. I’m sure there’s more than a few of those, since apparently about anyone in Illinois politics has connections to this guy. Also, you didn’t really go into the house deal–is that what you meant by the 10 foot strip of land? The purpose of this article seems to have been to downplay a soft spot for Obama and slam Clinton at the same time. S.O.P. for Obama supporters. A shame, because I’m interested in what’s going on. I’d really like to see a balanced article about this. There was an article by looseheadprop that apparently had some problems with it too, from the other side. Can’t firedoglake find anyone who isn’t in either camp to give an objective account here.
this has been out there since day 1. i’ve mentioned it here at fdl many times only to be ignored. obama needed to air this totally before now. rezko has been a fixture in chicago politics forever and then another day. if you dealt with him you knew who you were dealing with period the end. let’s face what has happened to our country head on. let’s clear the air. let’s shine the light on all of these corrupt people. for crying out loud, let’s deal with it.
In the future, the US Attorneys that did not get thrown out
of office during the DOJ scandal will be the ones to watch. I am curious to know what have they been up to.
Maybe what you’re missing is having been in a position, as I have, to sell three connected properties and knowing it would have been financially suicidal to put a condition like that on the sales. The house had been on the market a long time. Maybe that’s because people wanting the house wouldn’t also pop for the adjacent property and didn’t have a pal handy who would step up to the plate at exactly the same time they wanted the property.
I’m surprised that doesn’t strike folks as a tad bizarre. If you have three properties for sale, as I did, you sell them as three properties (which means there could well be three separate buyers with their own timetables, financing, and negotiating to do) — or you offer them as a single deal. If the sales are separate deals, no single deal is dependent on the others. I would think it works the same way for two adjacent properties. Suppose the seller wouldn’t take 25 grand less for the empty lot, but suppose the seller was happy with Obama’s offer on the house. Does that mean the seller wouldn’t have taken the adequate Obama deal because no one had met the right price for the vacant lot? Don’t you see how absurd that is when one is selling real estate?
Read here http://www.suntimes.com/news/s…..23.article for info on whetehr or not Clinton is pushing Rezko.
Read here http://archpundit.com/blog/200…..ko-primer/ and http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..838/445627 for points of discussion and debunking (with provided original sources)
Objectivity: read all the comments above. You will note the irony that in your call for ‘objectivity’ the framing of your concern could be construed as not ‘objective’
Au contraire, what owner in his right mind would want a 10 foot strip of land left over from the sale of the house. Who would want to buy that? No one. So the seller wanted to guarantee that it would be sold at the time the house was sold. Your position is nuts from my point of view (as someone who has been involved on the other end in house/property sales).
Seldom have I been nuts by such a charming person, so thanks.
The 10′ strip came after the two properties were sold — a later deal between Obama and Rezko, not the original seller of the two properties. The vacant lot in question was/is a buildable lot, quite roomy actually. The only lot the seller would have been “stuck with” was one that could accomodate some condos that could go for big bucks.
Richmond, make that “called nuts” … fingers moving too fast.
this whole scene does not pass the smell test. i have my “i smell cat shit” face on.
FWIW I called the position nuts, not you. On lots: If the the county records indicate that it had to be sold as two lots -since 1985 – doesn’t that answer the question? Finally, Obama apologized, and gave back other monies. WHat do you want him to do, drop out?
About the nuts comments — I know, dear. I was just playing with you.
The records don’t show that the lots had to be sold as two lots. They show that there are two lots. My three lots were all part of one lot, visually, but there were recorded as three lots with the county and I was free to sell them as I wished.
You’re missing the point if you think the Rezko concerns I have are about returning campaign money or offering apologizes. I simply agree with LHP: it’s a problem the GOP will exploit.
I gotta go now. Just wanted to drop in to offer my support to LHP. Did not intend to get into what my concerns about Rezko are, but found myself going there to some degree anyway.
Buh-bye.
I don’t think I should have to read through 300 comments and go to a lot of different links to (maybe) get enough information to know the story. I want firedoglake to write a decent article about this. And at the same time, I am literate enough to know this article (not the the Rezko thing, I don’t know about that) doesn’t pass the smell test. This is the second biased one in a few days from this site. Personally, I don’t care if Obama is dirty or clean. I just don’t want Rezko to come out after the primary, or, god forbid, at the end of October. As for my objectivity, I think I am objective, but why the hell does it matter? I didn’t write an article for a major political blog.
Rezko bought more than the 10 foot strip – he bought a corner lot that could be developed with something like 4 townhouses. If Rezko was holding the lot for future development and Obama asked to buy a section that would not preclude future development, it’s a good deal for a developer – while you or I might not want to lose a section of our yards, Rezko was not living there or planning to but investing for future use so the 10 ft strip helps to offset his investment.
Kenwood is a neighborhood that is starting to draw more interest but is not one of the neighborhoods with a lot of draw at that time. Chicago is going through a lot of development but it’s north of the loop in the Gold Shore, Lakeview, Lincoln Park areas. When this transaction went down, there were just beginning to be signs that folks were willing to also move south of the loop (see the development around Museum Campus and South Loop). It makes sense for a developer to pick up property that might allow for a nice project if the neighborhood becomes more popular. Kenwood has amazing old houses but is also bounded by some rough neighborhoods so you have potential but not necessarily big profits right now.
As I said, I lived 6 blocks south of this and saw the beginnings of dev interest at the same time the neighborhood was full of vacant store fronts, etc. When I moved to Chicago, everyone at the company I was at recommended I avoid the neighborhood – U of C is there but Hyde Park and Kenwood are seen as scary by many which hurts prop. values. Since that time, the area has been identified as the site for many of the facilities if Chicago gets the Olympics in ‘16 and I suspect developers are now looking at it with a different eye though it still lags dramatically behind most. (Thank goodness – preserving the wonders of HP/KW are dear to my heart … and happily there are very strong (very!) neighborhood activists who know how to fight and organize! The city tried to change the seawall area on the Lake in the neighborhood to something pretty ugly and found itself facing a concerted neighborhood refusal that went on for two solid years or more … it’s quite a place!
Now that is truly wonderful news!!!!
Go Donna!
Phoenix woman has done a very commendable job in putting together links. There are a few points that need cleaning up and showcasing, however. I have the same and other pictures of Muhammed Ali fighting, including Sports Illustrated covers signed by Ali when I last met him ( a good omen),and I had watched him train before live at ringside. I consider that one more good omen for Obama.
When LHP made her last headline post and some followup comments, they drew headlines on a number of other blogs including this one on The Daily Kos:
Swiftboating on the Firedoglake
The above piece was not an attack on FDL at all, but in addition to refuting many of the claims made in the FDL article, it drew comments from a number of attorneys including those who practice in Illinois. This resulted in attorneys to examining the FDL piece posted 2/7/08 at FDL and to begin commenting and refuting it on that thread. What was remarkable to me, what that LHP was conspiculously absent from the last 250 comments on the thread, once attorneys began to refute her. The author of the Kos thread actually came onto the FDL thread posting as “Rootless” as did posters. One of then answered LHP this way:
The false claim that the law firm Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland was “sleazy” was never substantiated, and it has been an exemplary law firm.
I called two close friends who are full partners in outstanding commercial real-estate law firms. They represent large national properties, including some of the major supermarket chains in the country, and shoping centers and specialize in development for clients in commercial real estate. Both of them have a major branch office in Chicago. I asked them if they would contact attorneys in the Chicago office (who have no dealings with Tony Rezko or the Obama’s old law firm). I sent them LHP’s headline and copied the comments to them. My request was that they give me a straight up assessment of the Davis Miner law firm and it’s dealings. I also linked the to the Kos article, and asked them whether the Miner firm was “sleazy” as was characterized by LHP in her comments and parroted by some other commenters, or whether it was exemplary, or anywhere in between. I emphasized I was very interested in a straight up assessment. The report I got back comported with the comments in this article:
Obama Got Start In Civil Rights Practice:
The firm of Miner Barnhill & Galland, many of whose members have Harvard and Yale law degrees, has a reputation that fits nicely into the resume of a future presidential candidate.
Housing violations that Obama didn’t deal with?
By the time any housing violations came up, Obama was in the State Senate and housing violations in any big city aren’t dealt with directly by State Senators. They are dealt with at the level of city government in every large and small municiple city. He did not and never would ignore situations where people didn’t have heat, and he didn’t create any of them. In fact, directly out of Columbia University he worked in two communities of low income housing fighting those battles every day for a couple of years before attending Harvard Law School.
From the Fitz Indictment–so-called “Individual D:”
If Fitz is targeting any major politician or office holder in his investigation, the odds are overwhelming it is Governor Blagojevich of Illinois. He’s going to have an uphill battle, and given his reluctance to prosecute anyone beyond Libby in the Plame affair, or to prod Mukasey to release his interviews of Bush, Rove, and Cheney. Mukasey appointed Fitz to the U.S. Attorney Advisory Committe on 1/3/08, but Fitz has been silent on prodding Mukasey to release the interviews despite his prominence at DOJ. I wouldn’t hold my breath for a Fitz prosecution of the governor.
Fitzgerald on US Attorney Advisory Committee; Remains Silent on Release of Plame Leak Interviews
No one has substantiated that Obama is Individual D at all. Rezko has contritubted to scores of political candidates, including two Clinton Co-Chairs who are ducking press questions about their Rezko contributions and have not returned the contributions. The conservative Trib and Sun-Times can do no better than “an unamed source” and many attorneys in Chicago have pointed out to me that Individual D could be any of a score of elected officials in Illinois, if not other states including two of Clinton’s campaign co-chairmen. Both of Clinton’s campaign co-chairman are refusing to answer questions about their Rezko contributions. They have refused to answer all emails and phone calls on this subject for weeks now. Why is that?
It was alleged three weeks ago in a comment by LHP, that Obama obtained a loan to buy his home for laundered money by Rezko. This is totally false. It simply did not happen. In fact, Michelle Obama, a Harvard Law graduate, has held two jobs which would have allowed her to buy that house if she had been single and never married anyone. She was an Associate Dean at the University of Chicago, and she recently held a job as Administrator at the University of Chicago Medical Center. The real estate agent has aired the purchase of the Obama’s house out on NBC. It was also asserted that the Rezko connections needed national vetting. I don’t want to sound naive–because anyone can name their company national so I dug into this company NBC. I pretended to myself that I was a DOJ PIN attorney and really wanted to “dig”. Imagine my surprise. This NBC is located in New York City at 30 Rockfeller Plaza. They are a company that is a broacasting network. They broadcast nationally. Wow!
USA Today, Wall Street Journal, New York Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Trib, Washington Post are the top six newspapers circulation-wise in the U.S. All have been doing Rezko Obama stories for over a year and some for over two years. Is this national newspaper coversage?
The Silencing of Hillary Clinton on Rezko:
During the 1/22/08 Debate before last, Hillary Clinton made a charge that Obama had worked for “slum lords.”
No words referencing this charge have come from Senator Clinton since. She has not made any commercials touting her false claim, nor has she mentioned it in multiple speaking engagements before crowds every day. Why is that? The Clintons have phoned the NY Times before responding to stories. They know the number. Howard Wolfson, their media guru has a multimillion dollar media unit with scores of employees. Bill Clinton has his own media unit. Why haven’t they contacted the media to demand more coverage?
Could it have anything to do with contributions to the Clintons (the libary)–the $5 million dollars that we know about coming from somewhere that Clinton has kicked into her own campaign, borrowing a page out of the Romney playbook? Could the money have come from Ron Burkle? Could it have come from the library fund or Frank Giustra, the contributor who kicked in $31.5 million to the library
The Clintons received questionable contributions from the following individuals and have not answered questions about any of them although the Norman Hsu money has been returned now:
Norman Hsu to Hillary Clinton
Arief Wiriadinata (a gardner) $425,000 to the DNC when Clinton ran against Bob Dole
Mochtar Riady
Findings Link Clinton Allies to Chinese Intelligence by Bob Woodward WaPo
Ron Burkle
Contributors of hundreds of millions to the Clinton Library (The Clintons are refusing to make this information public–requests for it are very legitimate.
Thanks Siun. As always, thorough, and thoughtful!
The lots didn’t have to be sold as two, they could be sold as two as long as the closing was on the same day. That’s what the Tribune confirmed and the seller’s real estate agent confirmed on NBC–Siun asked for the link and I cannot find it–their site is a pain in that regard. I’ll try YouTube later.
LHP stopped refutting criticism on her thread once several attorneys came in on the thread toward the last 200 comments and started picking her allegations apart. This included the Kos poster that labled her headline Swiftboating. I’ve gone after many of her allegations and could go after many more.
The real estate agent appeared on NBC and debunked all your claims. Why aren’t you writing the top six newspapers in the country who have covered this?
you mad, huh?
of course you are not obligated to read through the comments but that is how we are coming to a ‘decent’ conclusion about Rezko. There have been three articles written here as of late with regards to this subject. The reference to reading the comments posted (not just here but the other two articles) was maybe whatever points that don’t pass your smell test have already been discussed. If you have some points that you are contesting, post them up so we can address them. I wasn’t questioning your objectivity per se rather the irony of you asking for an objective article when the frame of that request could be read as quite the opposite.
When LHP made her latest Rezko post from 2/7/08, she made a point of commenting that “FDL had not been particularly kind to the Clintons.” LHP indicated that she wants the Democrats to win the White House–I’m on her team there–so do I, but that she was simply vetting her version of Obama Rezko.
I appreciate this effort because LHP has now drawn many many liberal blogs’ commenters who are also attorneys into action, and they have done critical analyses of her claims, furthering the digging, the way someone who was an employee at DOJ Public Integrity Section better known in the trade as PIN would do. LHP is an alumna of DOJ PIN where Christy has said, they dig. They hang out on the web here:
DOJ PIN
Christy Smith also noted that US Attorneys vet their witnesses to find flaws in potential testimony. Actually most attorneys who hope to win a criminal or civil trial in state or federal court vet their witnesses as well as possible.
There is another perspective however, from the defense bar as to DOJ. DOJ uses snitches prolifically in criminal trials. They are the infrastructure of the majority of these trials. The snitches are rewarded handsomely for their testimony. Deals are promised to them, that cut their sentences and give them years of their lives back, almost exclusively approved by a district court judge, in part because the district court judge was a U.S. Attorney before taking the bench, for the same reason that when analyses are done of district court judges rulings in cases on FRE (Federal Rules of Evidence, these rulings go almost exclusively to the government attorneys. Judges who come from DOJ take care of their own and they do it with in an extraordinarily high number of rulings according to extensive analyses. Many many suggestions have been made to revise FRE, and their are law school projects to do this, but the committees for revision of these rules and FRCrP are composed predomininantly of judges, and they report to the Judicial Conference who makes the final decision. Congress could step in and revise these rules, but this can take years, and an example is the Crack/Cocaine sentencing disparity that has already begun to playout in House Judiciary Committee and will finish hearings there next week to revise sentencing disparities that have been not only drastically wrong, but have existed since the 1980’s when the “science” that the DOJ and the courts pushed was simply medically wrong.
There is an editorial on this in today’s NYT:
Mukasey Obstructs Drug Case Justice
Many US Attorneys who become part of the defense bar will admit that snitches would say or do anything to get the sentence reduction either prior to their sentencing, or after, and complain bitterly about it after joining the ranks of the defense bar when their wives have prodded them for more material goods and they calculate the cost of their children’s education will be over $100,000 before grad school, law school, or med school more than doubles this.
Often the snitch as a potential witness is wielded as a sword towards the defense attorney, in an effort to intimidate them and to keep them from putting their client on the stand. This is a needle for the AUSA to thread however, because sometimes, the snitch blows up in their face on cross, and the defendant is put on the stand and can be much more credible on cross or direct.
I know of several cases where at the prodding of the AUSA, the record has been abruptly sealed, and every entry, motion, order pertaining to the snitch and the deal given to the snitch, has been removed from Pacer, and in some the snitch has been relocated to the Witness protection program, and is never even incarcerated although the snitch commited serious crimes.
You will find in such cases that although the snitch was very talkative prior to the deal, the snitch may as well have had a laryngectomy after they disappear as a co-defendant and become a virtual ghost on the Pacer docket sheet. The snitch’s attorney often has an equal case of laryngitis as well after the deal has taken place.
Very often,little is done to verify the veracity of the snitch. The game is about winning.
Here, LHP talks about examination of Senator Clinton
I have looked all over the archives, and Christy pointed out some posts critical of Clinton.
However, there hasn’t been a major headline post by LHP or anyone else to vet many questions that were buried in the 1990’s that have now had a major resurrection, and some that are current about the Clintons. Since we are now in the Primary Home Stretch, I think it’s appropriate that the Clintons begin to get vetted as well.
I think it’s appropriate that all the Firepups pretend they are employees of DOJ PIN and start digging–that was Christy’s buzz word into the Clintons. I am nice enough to volunteer to proffer some questions to begin the digging. I anxiously await one of the lawyer headliners, Christy or LHP to help me vet the Clintons:
Here’s what I haven’t seen yet from LHP but I’m sure she’s raring to do to vet Hillary Clinton. I supplied some opening questions for her about Clinton:
Let’s Vet Hillary Clinton Now Like they Do in the DOJ Public Integrity Section:
1) What brought about the very sudden appearance of billing records from the Rose law firm in the dining room of the White House that had been subpoenaed 18 months earlier in 1984? You can bet that would be front and center in any hypothetical general election with McCain.
2) What was the genesis of Hillary Clinton’s miraculous cattle futures trade netting her a sudden hundred grand in 1994?
Hillary Clinton Cattle Futures
Trade Detailed
3) What does an examination of where Hillary got the $5 million to loan to her campaign? If it was in fact from her book deal, she doesn’t have a lot left to loan herself–except for the $100,000 speaking fees her husband continues to generate world wide.
4) An examination of the $400,000 bribe paid by Denice Rich to Bill Clinton in order to get a pardon for her divorced husband Mark who pretty much fits the word “sleazy” that LHP used–at the time the pardon was granted Rich’s husband was an international fugitive on the run from US Marshalls–that’s not quite up to the usual standards of the pardon office at LHP’s old digs–the DOJ. That’s going to be front and center in any attempt of Hillary Clinton to get elected.
5) An examination of the recent mining deal that netted Bill Clinton a contribution of $31.5 million dollars described in this article should be vetted. The Clintons have refused to reveal the contributors of hundreds of millions of dollars to the Clinton library—and asking for this is legitimate. One $31.5 million contributor was given a lucrative multimillion dollar mining deal because of the direct efforts of Bill Clinton in Kazakhstan. It’s going to be showcased in any hypothetical general election.
After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton
6) What connections does Rezko have to the Clinton campaign or her campaign co-chairman?
7) When will Clinton learn to understand the Levin bill and the Kyle-Leiberman amendments she voted on authorizing war in Iraq in the first? Why did she mischaracterize them in the last debate, when she has had the advantage of a Yale law degree which should have insured that she can read a bill correctly?
8) Why has Clinton blocked release of over 1.5 million documents relating to a health care initiative she references all the time but refuses to detail at all no matter how many times she’s asked? This would be pressed for in any general election.
9) Why are the Clintons refusing to release the big money donor list to the Clinton library? This is a valid question for anyone who is running for any public office whether it’s a county commissioner or President of the United States. This would be front and center in any hypothetical general election.
10) Indonesian Connections—How did a gardner named Arief Wiriadinata come to give the Democratic party $425,000 during the Clinton’s campaign against Dole, and what will drilling the financial ties of the Clinton’s to Indonesia’s Mochtar Riady
11) The press and the Repubs will be exploring the financial relationship of Ron Burkle to the Clinton’s, so why isn’t FDL doing the vetting “first” while in the home stretch of the Democratic primary?
Findings Link Clinton Allies to Chinese Intelligence
By Bob Woodward
13) Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton pointedly are pointedly refusing requests to release their income tax returns until after the Democratic Primary is over. Pressure is mounting for them to do this.
For the record, I don’t think Obama is corrupt. But I know enough about this case to immediately make a decision about the credibility of this article when the house case was dismissed as being about a 10′ strip of land. There may be perfectly innocent explanations for much, or all of the points being raised here. But the issue of Obama soliciting Rezko’s help in purchasing the house isn’t addressed by dismissing it as not thinking before buying a 10′ strip of land. This kind of obfuscation does nothing to clear the air.
And casting aspersions by saying that associates of Clinton’s received donations from Rezko is simnply ridiculous. A candidate receiving a donation isn’t expected to know everyhting about the donor’s business dealings. Equating that, or the Matt Lauer photo (why are you even mentioning that?) with going in on a house deal together is simply disingenuous.
Claiming the Clinton campaign is promoting the story based on the fact that Hillary said Obama worked for a “slumlord” is equally misleading. Disagree with that statement if you will but nowhere did she accuse him of corruption, or mention the house deal or fundraising.
I’m with others in wondering if we can’t see an unbiased assessment of this situation. I don’t see why I have to follow 20 links, many of which are a waste of time, to learn about this story.
I’ve gotten the impression that Obama hooked up with Rezko as a young ambitious politician, and that Rezko raised a lot of money for him over the years (and returning money is not the same as never having gotten it). Many politicians develop relationships with fundraisers. It’s hard not to, the way money runs politics, so there may be nothing untoward in this. I recognize that my impression may be wrong, but this post gives me no confidence that I’m getting the straight story.
Exactly so.
We are all trying to do that. The articles are posted and we ask questions for clarification or correct that which is incorrect. If you can toss your hat in and do some research in the areas that are questionable to you and post them here, we can discuss and dissect to come to a clearer picture. Maybe you don’t want to follow 20 links, but this is not their full time job and where we can contribute information that we have come across, why not?
I think that was one of the points brought up in the comments for LHD’s article.
I hope that PW or someone will address your points of concern but if you find something to refute it, by all means let us know.
Where’s #12?
I can’t wait until Fox sinks its teeth into Obama and starts smearing him. After all the misogynist crap he’s unloaded on Hillary, Obama deserves to get what’s coming to him.
#12 is lucky #13. I had a duplicate and forgot to renumber.
I can’t wait for you to give us examples of specifics for your claim. And hands down, McCain wants to run against Clinton. You thought Fox was going to become major contributor for a Clinton fan club? She did try to make some goofy deal to debate on Faux that has fallen through.
” Apparently I’m the only one here who thinks the one being swiftboated is Looseheadprop.
No, you’re not the only one. I went over to DailyKos and it was like entering a sauna.”
Count me in the LHP fan club. It is best that Obama gets vetted now before the Republican machine gears up after he’s been nominated. From my perspective, Obama has plenty of sharp elbows as well. His expressions that only he could beat McCain, or that his supporters may not support a Hillary nomination are quite sharp elbows being thrown, IMO.
Alvord, it might feel rather lonely for you at FDL at times, but your attempts at obtaining clarity are much appreciated by me, and perhaps by many others here as well.
Is there something where Obama had the land assessed? The property was sold within months of it’s sale to Mrs. Rezko. It likely had been assessed by the previous owner or Rezko for that sale. The larger lot was already split from the house lot BEFORE either the Obamas or the Rezkos were in the picture. It was being sold that way by the original owner. The previous owner had already split the parcel up.
Both house and adjoining parcel remained on sale for months. It does seem that there MAY HAVE been some conversation between the Obamas and Rezkos about offering simultaneous bids. Rezko offered the listed price, the Obamas a reduced price (which exceeded the one previous offer). The original seller jumped at the deal. This may have been because once the adjoining parcel sold, the houses value mighht have dropped because of whatever might be developed there. So the seller may have thought it was a good deal at the reduced offer…the higher of the two bids.
Now the adjoining plot. People sometimes want additional land to improve a property. The 10 foot wide strip would have increased the size of the backyard and side away from the street. It was offered to them, not at a reduced value…but at the market price. It was 1/6th the size of the other parcel and they paid 1/6th the original price. As for any issues with the Preservation Commission…can anyone tell me how the addition of a protective strip of land surrounding a house from other potential development would hurt the Conservation quality of the home?
Remember, the parcel had been split BEFORE the Obamas obtained the house…not by the Rezkos but by the previous owner. If the Obamas had been involved in this why wouldn’t Mrs. Obama have used her position to INSIST that the strip be included in the parcel the home was upon rather than part of larger lot. Then she could have obtained the lot and the house together and not paid the higher amount for the 10 foot side strip.
It just seems so illogical that there was any influence peddling in this situation at all.
And given that LHP’s original post was so one-sided, and omitted masses of well-known factual material that already exonerated the Obama’s from most of her more exagerated charges…I simply find that the argument that the Dem’s should vet there candidates and they should be able to defend themselves a bit odd. She had most of the evidence countering her own assertions right there. Yet she, like a prosecutor for the Republicans, made a case that was, if anything VERY
BIASEDone-sided.
The same presentation could have been done in a “call-and-response” presentation…where the charges were laid out…and the defense to them provided in accompaniment.
To produce such a piece during a time when critical caucuses and primaries were immediately on the horizon seemed to me to be very much an effort to sway votes. It had little to do with what the Republicans might do down the road but everything to influence how Obama was viewed by progressive Democrats. She made a series of charges, based on innuendo and untruths that could have, and should have been, better vetted before she went to “press”. It suggests some level of animosity to the candidate, IMO.
I don’t think that LHP has been “Swiftboated”…I think that she has been criticized based upon the easily obtained facts at hand. How can one be “swiftboated” with facts and logic is beyond me?
The criticism of LHP has not been personal. It’s not been an assessment of her obvious talent and value and experience as an attorney while at DOJ and after DOJ. I’m a fan of LHP’s posts here or at EW–what’s not to be fond of–there is plenty of talent and background she brings to her lens. This is not about being an LHP fan or not, and nothing about a personal assessment.
It’s simply a look at what she said in her claims about Obama, and the facts do not support them..
And LHP said some things about
1)Obama’s purchase of his home that simply were not true.
2) Obama’s law firm in Chicago and his career choices after Harvard that simply were not the case. The fact that Obama didn’t try to law clerk for Stevens or Ginsberg didn’t make his career path “sleazy.”
3) I’m very surprised that LHP didn’t use a few of the resources at her fingertips to do a careful check of the Davis, Miner law firm in Chicago because what happened there and goes on there is nothing like she described.
There was a lot of cascading inuendo in that post that she’d never bring into a courtroom, or to turn the tables, LHP could do an excellent job of debunking what she said if she had Obama as a client to defend, and had drilled to see if some of these things hold up.
If you call the Davis Miner law firm “sleazy” you have to butress it with facts. It’s not “sleazy” and she can’t back that up. Sleazy lawyers are around–you bet your bippy they are. But not at that firm. And let’s say someone at the firm left it and went into a partnership and it wasn’t on the up and up. That doesn’t make the firm systemically bad let alone Barack Obama.
I know of several lawyers from LHP’s old firm who are now in federal prison. I know still more who were not indicted, but were asked to leave because they played games with evidence. Does that make the DOJ a sleazy firm? No.
I know of attorneys who were at DOJ who had a gambling problem and got hurt and there are a couple cases where they got killed because of it.
What has happened during the Bush years does make many parts of DOJ horrendous right now, and Mukasey is not the man to clean most of that up.
It’s going to take a very long time, and can’t be done with a sellout to the Unitary Executive principle like Mukasey–particularly when that Unitary Executive is a serial law breaker.
Midlevel people in the US attorney’s office are demoralized and they’re leaving.
Mukasey is doing obvious coverup for Bush, Cheney and Addington right now and the absurd situation with respect to Bradbury is Exhibit A.
Why Bush Is So Desparate to Confirm Bradbury Empty Wheel
LHP jumped on Obama for “present votes” and there was a rationale for his present votes and a number of lawyers familiar with the situation in the Illinois legislature and why many of those “present votes” were made to further legislation favored by women’s organizations have been explained on that thread–in the last 100 comments and I’m still waiting for LHP to respond to them.
And Barak Obama simply was not some cold non-responsive thug who ignored low income housing without heating, turning his head so he could make a buck. That absolutely so did not happen.
Obama went straight out of Columbia into a warehouse into two of the worst neighborhoods in South Chicago and setup activist groups to combat just those conditions. Money wasn’t a driving factor for him in his career, and if it had been there were a lot of avenues for him to make it. I’ve seen very mediocre lawyers go right out of law schools that don’t hold a candle to Harvard, and make considerably more money than Obama earned at Davis Miner. It happens every day.
And as for this crap that “Boy is Obama going to be Swiftboated, and torn up by Right Wing talk radio and of course there are research teams digging into Obama now who will do their best to smear him in the general, that’s just a fact of life–they have ample material for the Clintons and I posed a dozen questions for her that are just the tip of the iceberg.
I wonder I wonder when a headliner will try to vet Clinton at Fire Dog Lake currently. She won’t release her tax returns. She won’t answer questions about the library contributions and Bubba is making deal after deal that’s way beyond sleazy and one thing she can’t control is Bubba and a pandemic of Bubba eruptions. The hits just keep on comin’.
I can’t wait for the Swiftboaters to try to go after Obama–someone talked about Fox news–I couldn’t be licking my chops more for those imbeciles to try what was tried with John Kerry.
They’re in for a huge awakening.
Dating yourself, Pete! :-)
Possibly–it could have been in vogue during early SNL, but so was (for my money the best rock and roll and blues).
I’ll try to like come up with some fly phrases that are like more like contemporary in the future. My apologies to the pandemic of valley girls who like use like every other word with those cells glued to their TMJs and their mommmies who like talk just the same way as their sons and daughters to reassure themselves that they’re still like young and in touch.
dated or not, though, still cracks me up
Thanks so much Phoenix Woman. Excellent post. Obama has to get ready for this one from republicans should he be fortunate enough to pull it out-it seems to have lost legs with the dems.