tough question.

Seems like a tongue slip- but a hurtful one for Chelsea. Suspension may be about right.

Here’s one definition:

prostitution
(prŏs’tĭ-tū’shən, -tyū’-) pronunciation

n.

1. The act or practice of engaging in sex acts for hire.
2. The act or an instance of offering or devoting one’s talent to an unworthy use or cause.

Hi, Jane. While the “claws” thing didn’t really bother me (well, in an eye-rolling, here-we-go-again way maybe), “pimp” or “pimping” does, especially when used about a woman. I used to live in the middle of the “Minnesota Strip” near Penn Station in New York, so I may be over-reacting… or it may just be that I’m turning into a cranky old woman.

Ohh, it’s getting crazy all up in this election!!

Nobody knows if she was actually pimped out. Does it seem like it? Hells yeah. Did Chelsea really wake up and say, “Hmmm… let me call three of the “View” ladies and ask them to vote for my mom.” Maybe it happened that way, maybe not. But it sure does seem like she was pimped out.

And they’re all pimping everybody. Clinton seems to pimp out her daughter and husband. McCain pimps out his mother. Obama pimps out Oprah. Huckabee pimps out God.

from below:

Fer chissakes. After all these years of completely over the top sexist, racist, and all kinds of other -ists statements from Tweety Mathhews, JoeScar, countless “guests,” The Entire Pox Newz on-air roster, Hillary gets a “point made” on Shuster?!? Shuster is the one worthy of taking to the mat about sexism in the BigMedia?

Jeezus. It just perpetuates the Pox line about big bad NBC, and about Liberal journalists, since Shuster wasn’t liked by the Noize Machine. Way to take a stand Hillary after all these years.

Perhaps Hillary is “reaching across the channels” to gain some more Pox News viewers, since she does appear on the channel A LOT.

Especially strange considering Roger the Hut Ailes was the slime that produced the “barking dog” cartoon about Chelsea years ago. Doesn’t seem to bother Hillary or Bill anymore…

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..41823.html

I missed the Obama claws post Jane. I also feel the Pimping for the campaign thing is being blown way out of proportion. I guess I am cynical, but I think the HRC will be blowing any and everything out of proportion if it can get them some press. I smell desperation.

I generally object to the term on racist grounds. I seem to recall that term is used by rightwingers to frame Black men like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, the term ‘poverty pimps’ is racially loaded and is used to debase and marginalize African-Americans.

Jay Severin, AKA Jimmy Severini in Boston was always good for this term and also the ‘race hustlers’ term applied to the same men.

In this case Shuster used the term that is bandied about by peoplein a casual manner and simply shouldn’t be used by a professional newsman to describe anyone who is not an actual prostitute purveyor.

Smarten up media folks. Do your jobs, you are news people, not Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert.

-G

I think the more egregious aspect of Schuster’s remark is how it comes as a bolt from the blue (ha!). Where was David when Mitt’s boys were serving their country as their Dad’s “pimps”? Where was he when Dick Cheney’s “girls” were street-walking for the Ol’ Dickmeister? Chelsea is helping her Mom move up in the world. I suppose she could be volunteering for the infantry instead . . .

My girl (I’m her boy) have discussed this pimped issue briefly. We have come to the conclusion that whether or not the comment holds water, it probably should have been expressed differently. Like in ‘used’ instead of “pimped” for example. And that’s all my lady and I will have to say about this circumstance.

Vote Democratic. Don’t stay at home. Please. Next November.

However, the second meaning of prostitute may be less extensible to the word pimp.

pimp

intr.v., pimped, pimp·ing, pimps.

To serve as a procurer of prostitutes.

Given the context, I think Mr. Shuster might have found a better formulation for his thoughts.

I heard the pimp remark when he made it. I wasn’t offended by the word “pimp.” But I do remember recoiling, just a tiny bit, thinking sheesh, now they’re going to start in on the benign and lovely Chelsea. Cripes.

And that was it.

Suspending Shuster? double cripes. The guy is a mensch, I think. A real reporter, as far as he can be, and fair in his opinionating. Let’s put it this way: When Shuster says something egregious, I am surprised. When Matthews does not say something egregious, I am surprised.

I agree, he is the fall guy for Matthews (don’t even get into Tucker Carlson).

And then we all spend so many minutes on this — while the torture cabal continues unchecked.

Was Mitt Romney ever said to be “pimping out” Tagg and his brothers? How about McCain and his blogging daughter? How about four years ago, with Dick Cheney and his daughter? These folks have had adult children kids at least as involved as Chelsea, if not moreso, and they get the “wow, isn’t that neat how their kids are part of the campaigning” treatment.

Hillary, OTOH, gets called a pimp, making Chelsea a whore by implication.

I don’t care who you back in this race. This was waaaaay over the line, even if Shuster was speaking colloquially.

Ubiquitous would have it about right.
I don’t think he should be suspended. After years of being fed hate and fear as a constant diet I find it truly innocuous, and I might add right on the money as far as truthiness goes. But a bad choice of words in an oh so pc world.
I say this without any Hilary hate or prejudice…mho

Not a very thoughtful comment by a usually very astute David Schuster. However, it is no worse than multiple comments made by Chris Matthews on a daily basis and I don’t see him getting in much hot water at all and certainly not ’suspended.’ Double standard, anyone?

I’ll just repeat what I said last thread – it’s gonna take way more than one slip-up by David Shuster before I’m off his bandwagon. Bringer of truth and understanding in the Libby case and most other things. Besides – JoeScar hates him; that’s its own incontrovertible and positive personality test right there, methinks.

And, long as I’m here, I tend to think that any sexual connotation the the word “pimping” is, if not outmoded, is at least equaled by more recent usage – authors and actors speak openly on talk shows, e.g., about ‘pimping’ their book or movie.

Oh, I almost forgot. Lahoma tells me I might want to consider that Mr. Shuster acted stupidly. But she also says she will continue to watch and listen to him. But… she indicates that Shuster should, “straighten up”. I agree with her.

I think Jane’s right. The “pimp” comment isn’t that big a deal. In fact, I use to say the Republicans “pimp” the evangelical vote.

Jane: You’re right, it was a minor infraction. But I guess you could say it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Shuster stuck up for Tweety as well, remember? He was a great reporter when he was on the Libby trial but there is a certain attitude at MSNBC that I just can’t ignore anymore. It’s pervasive and systemic. Now that Obama has driven it out into the open, I can’t let my 12 year old daughter watch shows like Countdown anymore. She’s incredibly smart and she learns very quickly. Recently, she’s been playing with her tablet on her computer during Countdown so she hasn’t been paying attention. But now that I see how the MSNBC ambience can affect her self-image, I just can’t have it on the DVR anymore. It would be like taking a giant step backwards to the days when it was ok to say that women couldn’t be anything more than secretaries and teachers because of their raging hormones. I thought we fought that battle but really there was just an uneasy detente, which now appears to be broken. Back to the barricades we go.

Even more interesting to me was everyone’s attribution of my motive for putting up the poll, or their assumption about what my feelings on the subject might be.

Don’t get caught in that either/or way of speaking…everyone, always, never/ever – etc.

I know I didn’t comment on your motive because you never said what your motive was or even alluded to it, sooo – not “everyone’s attribution of my motive” doesn’t include at least me. I’m more than certain there were others. And Jane, don’t you go back and look either! Let it go, really – it’s OK. I’m jus’ sayin’

That’s always the way I hear it too, so much so that I don’t perceive it even as negatively value loaded any more. To my ears it just means “promoting.” I understand that others might not have the same response, and with some justification, but the whole thing kind of surprised me.

Agreed. But Jane did use “prostitute”, so I went there.

The most inmportant thing in this house is to defeat the Republicans, with a sizeable vote. Can you imagine? President McCain. It’s felt Mr. McCain will make Barry Goldwater and George W. Bush look like peaceniks.

It’s a pattern. I think what Shuster said was wrong, but I thought the apology would have taken care of things, assuming he didn’t start acting like Chris Matthews. I think the reason Shuster is paying the price is because:

1. As you said, he’s paying the price for Matthew’s behavior over the past few years. MSNBC has been thoroughly embarrassed by the misogynistic behavior on their network in various incidents
2. MSNBC really, really wants another debate
3. Shuster’s comment was, indeed, pretty disgusting, and it was reinforced by laughter in the background (may have been Tucker, I’m not sure)

One last thing that could have been a factor is that MSNBC is appearing to be too biased. Today, for example, they had Peggy Noonan on the “Morning Joe” show. It just so happens that Noonan also published a particularly derogatory column today where she compared Hillary to Rasputin and the character Glenn Close played in “Fatal Attraction.”

Maybe, also, it’s starting to register with them, that the woman they’re trashing might be president in less than a year.

Is it OK to say that Obama pimps out Michelle, and his little girls?????

OF COURSE NOT!

Nobody would EVER say such a thing. But with the Clinton’s it is different I guess.

I would make the same decision with a 12 year old and MSNBC right now. And Shuster did himself no favors by sitting around with Banjo Boy giving Matthews a pass, it sounded like the old boys club. But yeah, I think it was final shoe time.

And now… to the issue of what President McCain plans to do about Iran.

Exactly

Wow.

I think we need to drop all colloquialisms from our vocabulary, and starting right now we should only speak in unambiguous absolutes.

Of course, I’ll have to suspend myself from my own blog, because I still use them when justified!

I was WAAAAYYY more bothered by the Noonan column. It was awful.

I think I’ll make a couple of margaritas.

Well you do have a point. It would not be a term I used under those circumstances.

I understand what you and Jayt are thinking, that has worked it way into usages in the language different from its original intent. And that is understandable as all languages change over time. However, for Chelsa and her parents the connotation was too negative. I like Schuster and I think he needs to more careful but sometimes mouths outrun minds.

You don’t say a girl is being pimped by her mom especially when her Mom will hear. On the other hand When is Hilary going to stand up to Tweety Schuster is a one time thing I can forgive.
Tweety however has made it a career. Still is she nuts KO is the best person on mainstream media Fox News is using her she’s getting played.
Heck have the BBC moderate the debates I respect them more than anyone else.

Thanks for the support, Jane. I don’t think I’m overreacting but she’s pretty vulnerable to societal messages right now and I don’t her to lose her edge.

but I have to believe he’s largely paying for the sins of Matthews.

This offends almost as much a the dumb comment Schuster made. David Schuster is one of the best talents they’ve got.

Tweety spews anti woman invective every time he open shis damn mouth. Schuster screws up once and SCHUSTER is the one to be suspended? WTF?

It’s a pattern of behavior..Shuster still thinks that Tweey’s remark about being elected because people feel sorry for her is right. “She is just looking for sympathy”.

It is not the first time Shuster has reflected the misogynistic Clintonview of colleague Chris Matthews. Shuster defended Matthews over the remarks — for which he eventually apologized — that Clinton was elected to the Senate only on account of her husband’s Lewinsky affair. (He told me in an e-mail two weeks ago that he viewed Clinton’s complaints as sympathy ploy to get people to think the media attacked her on account of her gender.) You may be sure that neither Shuster nor Matthews would refer to lobbying by the Kennedy family for another presidential candidate as being “pimped out.”

arktimes

Heck have the BBC moderate the debates I respect them more than anyone else.

Now there’s an idea! They have no real dog in the hunt.

Shuster gets suspended for saying something stupid, but Mukasey won’t investigate anything to do with torture, spying…and he’ll show up at work on Monday as usual. Plus, W and his policies have been responsible for millions of people dying the world over, and he’s still in office.

So who is pimping out Mukasey and W?

At least I can’t get suspended from myself.

Da ya think!
That kind of writing…and people think that’s journalism or even intelligent commentary. Testify!

pimp mire, eyed.

Breaking News:

From now on all media outlets must refer to congresses low poll ratings whenever the subject of George W. Bush’s poll ratings are mentioned.

-Ministry of Information

Ah Jeebuz punaise! LOL!

This post is great example of why FDL has become my first and often only source for “news.”

With the rising tensions across the blogoverse the last few days/weeks, it’s nice know that this site is led by fair and honest people. At FDL, there is a general sense of simply trying to find the most truthful explanation for all things political, with a good dose of action thrown in for good measure.

Sadly, some other sites I’ve liked in the past have just become places to pimp their candidate of choice, facts be damned. Some of the recent posts here and following comments, which have been well thought out and researched, have challenged my own beliefs. This is great! It is also how one grows.

Thanks Jane! I’m happy that this is the only blog I’ve ever donated to, and would highly recommend to others that haven’t tried it to hit the “Support This Site” link in the upper right. It just feels good.

David Schuster is one of the best talents they’ve got.

Tweety spews anti woman invective every time he open shis damn mouth. Schuster screws up once and SCHUSTER is the one to be suspended? WTF?

I agree. Still, it doesn’t make Shuster’s comment any less of a problem.

Let’s them suspend Shuster for a couple of days — but they can fire Tweety.

He’s paying for Tweety, which is too bad, because he actually did his research during the Plame case.

MSNBC, which used to be more watchable for me, has become a challenge and watching Tweety is like watching a train wreck. I still watch KO, but only when it’s just him.

I don’t know, Anderson Cooper’s got a weird zen thing going that’s easier for my stressed brain to handle these days.

pimp mire, eyed.

*groan*

Schuster made a mistake- and got punished. I have no grief with any of this.

He couldn’t even ofer a straight up apology
MSNBC’s Shuster falsely claimed he said “Americans should be proud of” Chelsea Clinton before his “pimped out” comment
http://mediamatters.org/items/200802080003

Inre public v private speech, slang, especially slang, which crops up from black culture, with its various meanings based on reversals, and riffing on literal meaning with outrageous and prodigious hyperbolic tonguing in cheek is a minefield for political and sports reportage in media such as television and radio, and Mr. Shuster should have been hip to it. On the other hand, I had a grand old time telling people on the street that “It’s hard out there for a pimp,” was George Bush’s 2004 campaign song.

23

The most inmportant thing in this house is to defeat the Republicans, with a sizeable vote. Can you imagine? President McCain. It’s felt Mr. McCain will make Barry Goldwater and George W. Bush look like peaceniks

You are exactly right and I am tired of reading all of the blog comments about “How I won’t vote for “X”..The funny thing is that these self involved people think “it” is about them. How many are giving time, money or support for “their candidate”?

Atrios says it best:

No One Gives A Shit Who You Vote For

link

As a Man, I have said many things that I should be ashamed of but lessons learned and respect gained, awareness and being surrounded by woman…this kind of shit is usually dished out by those with projection problems.

“…pimp their candidate of choice…”

Now THAT was funny!

Shuster is a good journalist/reporter; Many times he gets right down to it and doesn’t usually fall into that partisan bias like others. It was an unfortunate use of the term. He should just said the campaign was using her shamelessly.

The more likely thing is his voice is being silenced for other things and this is the excuse. Didn’t he apologize already?

Oh I love that post. I’m gonna link it up.

I think it was offensive. But, if he offers up a real apology, I would let it go. We all say stupid stuff.

I do agree he is paying for the sins of others.

It will be interesting to see how others at MSNBC deal with this as we go forward. After the Matthews ‘apology’, I think their coverage became even more sexist.

Let’s them suspend Shuster for a couple of days — but they can fire Tweety.

That would be proportional.

I like that Hilary has started to attack the MSM Schuster is a poor target appearing on Fox to debate is a poor choice. Attacking Fox News can help her.
I hope she attacks the MSM more!

Hi Jane. Thanks for putting up this thoughtful post. Its a generational and urban thing in my view. Plus, what sociologist Irving Goffman speaks about in terms identifying one’s persona on a particular stage. The pimping comment might be OK on a blog or with friends, or on comedy central but not on national TV news. And then, it needs to be brought into play for others -Romney’s kids, spouses of all sorts. Particularly bad here was the fact of Chelsea’s relative age and gender.

Bush chimps out Laura….so I have heard.

-G

There might be a generation gap here. I am 62. I have never used that phrase in my life and found it highly offensive.

I agree with you mostly, but slang is part of every culture, often as a key component of insider-outside identities, youth culture etc, i.e. it is not just black.

Here!!!!Here!!!! The Obama “thing” is starting to worry me. A sub-set of Obama supporters have “fundie-wing-nut” psychology. Reading comments on some of the other “lefty” blogs..I think I logged on to LGF.

3 dings.

-G

I don’t have an opinion about what if anything NBC should have done. I do think the use of that word to describe his thoughts was awkward at best, but more than that it seemed silly to say that about Chelsea no matter what word he used to describe what he was saying. It really doesn’t make sense. My reaction to it was similar to what Bill Press’ reaction was. Which was, “Noooo”. “Chelsea…”–B Press

That’s always the way I hear it too, so much so that I don’t perceive it even as negatively value loaded any more. To my ears it just means “promoting.” I understand that others might not have the same response, and with some justification, but the whole thing kind of surprised me.

“Pimp”, I would venture to say, is a word that most people viewing NBC would associate with the traditional meaning of the word, a pimp, putting out prostitues for hire. Not everyone has “pimped” (forgive me) the distorted meaning of the word.

Just because it has become the latest fad word in some circles doesn’t mean it is appropriate to use in legitimate news. It was a poor choice of words on Schuster’s part.

By the way, I agree that he is also paying for his collegues sins.

Also by the way, I would like to see the F word returned to its proper place in the bedroom, but that’s just me. I remember well my first visit to Wonkette. Whew! Funny, but could have done without the F word in every sentence. After a while, it loses its effectiveness, and meaning. Thinking that this has happened to “pimp” as well.

Even more interesting to me was everyone’s attribution of my motive for putting up the poll, or their assumption about what my feelings on the subject might be. Which was actually much more about them and their individual need to view this race through a particular lens than anything else.

Everyone? I never did such a thing, my issues were the characterization of the word ‘claw’,that the comment was not assessed in context, and the fact that (due to the former to reasons)we were even having this debate.

On to the David Schuster remark. We all know the word in its traditional sense but being that I’m on the tan side, I thought I would also offer up the urban definitions as well. Why? Because while I wholeheartedly agree that by its original definition, it is egeregious, I also think in context of how the word is used today(think Pimp my Ride) that others may not necessarily see it as being a negative comment. Without further ado:

Pimp/ pimpted out
1) embellishment, ornament, decoration

I am not minimizing what he said, suggesting that he meant something else, twisting or spinning, I just want people to know that there is another definition by which people especially younger people.

Frankly, I see it more with the Hillary group, but that is my perspective. As Kiddo says, eye on the prize.

Shuster is a media harlot, pimp-mire-eld.

OK, got that out of my system.

To others, what shuster said was symptom of incredible stupidization of corporate media. That the media stars, even normally solid people like Shuster, would waste their breath bloviating about the candidates’ kids (whether Clinton, or Romney or anything else) in such a nincompoop fashion, shows what jabbering jackasses they have all become. Look at the wasteland of the NY Times opinion columns this week (with a few exceptions).

I heard an interview with Chelsea Clntion a few days ago. She sounded like a very serious wonk-dweeb who preferred to talk about issues. She said she was prouder than words could express about her mother’s presidential bid. Definitely did not sound like anyone who could be “pimped” or would be effective in such a role. But the only thing I really know about her is from that one interview, other than she had a cat names Sox.

Nope, coming from Hollywood the word has been used for decades as a synonym for “promote.” It’s not a “late fad,” that’s just how it’s commonly used. Which may skew my interpretation of it, I’m willing to admit, but it’s how book tours, movie promotion and PR gambits of all kind are commonly referred to and have been for as long as I’ve been in the business.

a pimp’ll be on the butt of the MSM

As someone who is not a supporter of either of them until the general election, I have to say that I tend to agree with Steve-AR. But as you note, YMMV.

I think language matters. The term bothered me. And I think it was gratuitous and not needed. But I’m the one who does not watch TV news. Ever. So there you go. Maybe I’m the one who’s out of touch.

Shuster gets Shushed.
Shuster deserves it. It’s about time. I guess Hillary canceling a debate had to hit the money strings.

Jane:

I am surprised by your comment. I know words like [Mod Note; racist terms removed] may be routinely used by black rappers and comedians. I do not think that they are appropriate for a network broadcast. I also do not think that anchors such as Shuster should be using slang words like “pimping” to look and sound “cool”. I am a man and I found it offensive especially being directed at someone like Chelsea who was just doing what she thought was helping her mother.

deminutah

“incredible stupidization of corporate media”.
“jabbering jackasses”

LOL

Love it.

I don’t have much of a problem with the suspension, or Hillary’s reaction.
But I beg her to unleash that same kind of attack on Fox News, which is
a million times worse every minute of every day.

“Pimped my ride” is a wholly unrelated meaning. Culturally it is asking to have your car refinished to flashy as in the way a stereotypical “pimp” dresses. An appearrance.

The way Mr. Shuster was using “pimp” was literally to say the Clintons were putting Chelsea out there to sell herself for votes.

Sentiment understood because that is a logical argument or point of view in the way she has been thrust into the limelight to campaign for her mother.(Whether you agree or not) It was a tasteless or in artful unprofessional way to say it. Far less offensive, however, than to specifically degrade someone simply because of their sex.

Well I will go with you you then. I’m an Obama supporter from the outside, but I tend to see the vast majority of the Obamiac group as energy kids (oxygen), so, I don’t necessarily take them as seriously as the “mid adult” bloggers here and elsewhere. Sorry for the ignornce but what does YMMV mean.

I am all for calling people out when they use insensitive language, but I am also wary of the politics of taking offense. Shuster deserves to be challenged on his language, but is this big backlash fair, or political manipulation?

Look at the actions to which Shuster was talking to. The Clinton campaign had Chelsea take the unusual step of making personal Election Day phone calls to the female hosts of “The View”. Extraordinary.

So what Shuster was mainly pointing to was the strong departure from the past, whereby Chelsea had maintained a much quieter role regarding the campaign.

My feeling was that Shuster used the loaded language to suggest the campaign was in fact debasing the former First Daughter, who had in the past enjoyed a status well above the fray. That’s a very fair opinion. and it’s disappointing that David might lose his job over it.

FWIW.

I was and still am a big Schuster fan.I think he works harder at actually learnign the information he is reporting thanjsut about anybody else they have at MSNBC. This is not a slap at KO, it’s just he’s in a different catagory being a desl guyinstead of a field reporter.

That being said, MSNBC seems to be getting more and more lockeroom-ish lately. It’s like what Tweety has in contagious. And,yes, could they PLEASE stop with the coverage of missing, drunk, vapid, or nervous breakdowning blonds.

Remeber that Taco Bell comercial “Just drop the Chalupa”? MSNBC please just drop the “blond” stories.

It’s very different to talk about pimping out a book than to talk about pimping a person, especially a young woman.

I found the use of the word to be ugly and offensive in this context. In another context, maybe not so bad.

I’m hearing a faint voice from upstairs asking if I’m feeling hungry for rib roast, baked potatoes and Caesar’s salad. Since we are having company in less than two hours for dinner, bridge and politics. I love this woman. I dislike bridge. I play best when I’m the dummie hand. Thank gawd our guests are Democrats. One problem. He likes Hillary and she likes Obama. Why can’t things just be perfect?

i was using it more so to demonstrate how the meaning has changed; I wasn’t equating the two. I gave my disclaimer but I’ll go put on the Kevlar suit anyway

Never liked Shuster, but in DC and in the upper levels of MSM wonk-hood, just about everyone’s either a pimp or a whore or both.

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

That was a bone-headed comment by Shuster, but he is paying for Tweety’s and MSNBC’s sins. OTOH, wasn’t Shuster all over the Lewinski tempest when he used to be at Faux? Perhaps there is a little bit of pay back as well.

A sub-set of Obama supporters have “fundie-wing-nut” psychology. Reading comments on some of the other “lefty” blogs.

Could we dial back the “Obama supporters are moblike” meme please?

LOL!

Why would they stop with the coverage of blonds? Dan Abrams thinks they are in contest with Faux and CNN. Did you see Jon Stewart last night? Or was it Wednesday? How Faux is co-opting the “Best Political Team in TV” schtick.

Oh and your characterization of pimping a car as equivalent to the way a pimp dresses tells me you may have been watching too many movies. It is true that it has to do with embellishment and ornamentation but leave the stereotypes out.

BTW I forgot to add the definition of ‘promoting’ but jane did that above

I’ll second RobZuber. I never was a Hillary supporter, but I’ve been really pissed off for a long time at the abuse the right has hurled at Chelsea Clinton, for the offense of being Bill and Hillary’s daughter. Schuster’s better than the average cable news guy, but even if unthinking, the comment was vile, so I’m not sorry he was suspended.

However: while I have a lot of sympathy for Chelsea, when the Clinton campaign puts out a statement saying that they might not agree to engage in debates on MSNBC any more it makes their decision to accept an invite from Fox look even worse. Fox has been far worse to everyone in the Clinton family as well as Democrats in general.

“But I beg her to unleash that same kind of attack on Fox News, which is
a million times worse every minute of every day.”

A million-times worse than how MSNBC has been biased against her? I don’t think so, and neither did the evaluation by an independent media watch group that was reported on FDL some days ago.

Rob:
Thank you. What would they have said about JFK or RFK supporters back in the 60’s?

Nope, coming from Hollywood the word has been used for decades as a synonym for “promote.” It’s not a “late fad,” that’s just how it’s commonly used. Which may skew my interpretation of it, I’m willing to admit, but it’s how book tours, movie promotion and PR gambits of all kind are commonly referred to and have been for as long as I’ve been in the business.

But those are the inside circles you run in. You are as you say, “in the business”. I doubt that the word “pimp” as a substitute for “promote” has yet entered the mainstream conscience. Even if it was a slip of the tongue for Schuster, which it would seem it was, it shouldn’t happen on national tv.

Personally, I think this is Hilary’s shot at the media putting them on notice to play fair. Perhaps its too bad that Schuster is the fall guy, but I seriously doubt that he will be banned for long. Look at Imus. Unless, they were looking for an excuse to sideline him anyway. Think that may be a possibility?

Now I’ve received an email from up stairs inquiring about the whereabouts of Margarita. I forgot about her. Things are starting to pop. Obviously I need to quit fooling around.

Dan Abrams thinks they are in contest with Faux and CNN.

An old boyfriend of mine started out his career working for the Neilson Ratings service.
Actually, MSNBC is in a contest with FOX and CNN. for ratings

I think I can say with some confidence that it wasn’t what he meant. People hear things through the filter of their own experience but Shuster comes from media too. I’m pretty sure he used the word as a colloquialism in the same way I would.

And yes, intent does matter. If Sean Hannity said something like this, with his track record, I admit I probably would take it quite differently.

Frankly the Clinton’ are smart/effective politicians. As with the NH stuff, they are milking this for all it is worth. Frankly, I preferred it when Obama straight out said, the Clintons are not racists. And, moved on.

These are my thoughts exactly. While not offended by the word “pimp”, it’s part of the MSM meme that people pimp for democratic ideas, programs or candidates and other people ’support’ conservative ones. My response to Shuster et. al. (borrowing from Jon Stewart’s response to a similar ploy by Romney), “Fuck you!”

I too thought that the use of that particular piece of slang in mainstream newsmedia was eyebrow-raising, though the term itself is more a comment on the speaker than an attack on the person about whom it was used.

And as you say it is more offensive on racial grounds -e.g. Schuster would never dream of saying that Michelle Obama was being “pimped out” by her husband in similar circumstances.

Nonetheless I still think this offense was careless but not a product of a network’s systematic attacks. Chris Matthews is a different story and should have been “suspended” long ago. There’s a difference between stupidity and chronic stupidity.

So maybe Schuster was accusin Bill an Hillary of DECORATING their daughter? Well- that’s a thought.

I was thinking about interview with Chelsea I heard. She sounded extremely smart and informed. Very interested in issues. Also not very interested in political show business, not one who seemed to enjoy the campaign process. She immediately shot back a resounding and firm ‘NO’ when asked if she ever had plans to run for office. Also seemed a little boring and overly serious and focused on wonky issue type talk for a campaign rally. Thus, the reason for my use of the term wonk dweeb, which sounded perjorative, but wasn’t really meant to be so, except to indicate that she doesn’t seem to be be natural politician.

After hearing that interview, it is difficult for me to believe that her role in the campaign could be described using the word ‘pimp’ in any of its senses.

So, my conclusion, Shuster was emitting gas, cause he needed to fill time, and had nothing at all of substance to say. So, it was meaningless gibberish, with no meaning, but sounded cool and knowing, with enough crude frisson to keep viewer interested and could be used as commercially viable filler for time between ads.

Jane and All,
Forgive me if I sound too one-note here, but I’ll say it again.
Words don’t mean, people do.
By that I mean, words don’t hold intrinsic meaning. How people use words and in what context they are used is what is important.
Maybe it’s because I’ve worked in Hollywood too, but I use words that sometimes have offended people here.
Oh, like the word shrill once about Hillary. Someone said it sounded like shrew. Okay. But that’s how they Chose to hear it. I explained that I was using the word to describe the Sound of her voice. They just wouldn’t back down.
I like to use the word “chick” when referring to a certain type of woman. That doesn’t go over well here either.
I guess my point is, that some people are maybe just too easily offended for my liking.
I could not have the great interest in politics that I have if I didn’t choose to see and listen with a generous dose of tolerance.
And for me that tolerance is the opposite of being too easily offended.
Just my take on the whole deal.
ps – I also use the C word for someone who is being a real bitch. But, that’s just used in my house. I wouldn’t say it here. :)

I like Shuster. Unlike you, I don’t knowe him, but I have felt he was really not a bad guy. But what he said was crude and uncalled for. What is wrong with Chelsea Clinton supporting her mother? Why didn’t anyone say such things about Bush sending out his twins in 2004 to campaign for their father? Hillary Clinton has gone to great lengths to protect Chelsea from assholes in the media, but if Chelsea is proud of her mother and wants to help her, how is that “pimping her out”.

It is sexist. It makes Hillary out to he a amdam and Chelsea out as a whore. Shuster didn’t even catch on that is was just a hateful thing to say until he was suspended. Maybe he didn’t mean it that way, but he is on television and he should show some restraint. No one would never say Obama is pimping out his wife, though she is much more involved in his campaign than Chelsea is in Hillary’s.

Hillary isn’t really allowed to ask her husband to campaign for her or everyone gets all bent out of shape. It is unseemly for an ex-President to campaign. Now she can’t have her daughter support her either? I mean what is wrong with Chelsea Clinton being proud of her mother? How is that unseemly?

So, Obama can have his wife and kids support him. He can make one sexist remark after another. That’s okay and no one should call them on it. Because it is him.

But Hillary is not supposed to have either her husband or her daughter in her corner. Hillary is entitled to the support of her family. And she is entitled to as much respect as we are suposed to show Obama and his family.

Here!!!!Here!!!! The Obama “thing” is starting to worry me. A sub-set of Obama supporters have “fundie-wing-nut” psychology. Reading comments on some of the other “lefty” blogs..I think I logged on to LGF.

Like where, Steve?

With our caucus this week and just life – I haven’t noticed. But then I have noticed that our little Obama folks here, some have found the messiah and have these little quaint rose-colored glasses.

No, MSNBC has been — especially of late — just as bad if not worse on the misogyny front than FOX. And Clinton needs the exposure of a debate, wanted them very much, so I really do think the cancellation is a serious line in the sand.

This is one compassionate conservative.

AP – President Bush, dispensing hugs freely as he comforted tornado survivors Friday, acknowledged the “incredible sadness and worry” he saw in their eyes and said the nation stood ready to help.

Enjoy your great meal, and have a good hand (even as the dummy, it will be nice for your partner).

CTBob!

I still watch your Boxer/Traitor Joe video from time to time when people get going on the Lieberman is Obama’s mentor BS. I”ll “whore it out” here just because it’s so good (what journalism looks like):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kDKl3oRU0g

HA! Just noticed you’re on the Christopher ShaShays and Shrub lovefest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbt9fCpgKI

Rock on.

One thing that the Hillary campaign has exposed is the widespread, vicious, misogyny in this society. As a male, I don’t have a natural detector for this kind of shit, but even for me it is pretty obvious. There is a real difference between non-Hillary supporters who make political arguments and the vastly more common anti-Hilliary diatribes. It really amazes me how many males have really serious problems with women and trashing Hillary is a socially condoned way to express it.

My GF was a low information voter who is getting a political re-education. She has not liked Hillary for 20 years and said she would never vote for her. Well that changed a few days ago, when she was shopping in Aspen and went to check out. The store owner was listening to wing-nut radio and they were saying vicious things about Hillary. She asked if he listened to that station, he said “yes’..she said “I can’t but from you”..re-stocked the items and walked out.

Well she is now a Hillary supporter and I am now financially “all in” for Hillary.

Who? I can’t say that I have seen that. But…

Schuster is having one hell of a bad day – Joe Scar smacked him down this morning over the phone for interrupting him “on MY show”.

By the way, latest JARs for President Lame Duck show him at or close to career lows. Most recent was AP released to day. 30% was the LOWEST in the mastermind’s career as recorded on the AP poll.

The media are mostly ignoring these numbers now that the race is on- but I think they’re pretty damned important. They are an anchor for McCain- draggin him below the foam.

More compassion coming from one of our concentration camps:

AP – Seeking to ease conditions for angry and frustrated Guantanamo detainees, the commander of the prison camps has instituted language classes, a literacy program and wants to open communal areas for men held in isolation 22 hours a day.

Does this mean Bush will be bringing the National Guard home to help? That’s pretty much all they want and need to hear. What are the chances, huh?

Sexist? When I first read about it at Shakesville, it sounded like hate speech to me. If Shuster is that clueless, he needs a course in remedial civilization.

I mean, how unusual is it for the adult child of a politician to stump for the parent? Shuster dishes out misogyny of his own. Maybe Tweety’s is more offensive, but both set the bar of their own humanity incredibly low.

Re: Shuster

What the hell was he thinkin’?

But those are the inside circles you run in. You are as you say, “in the business”. I doubt that the word “pimp” as a substitute for “promote” has yet entered the mainstream conscience. Even if it was a slip of the tongue for Schuster, which it would seem it was, it shouldn’t happen on national tv.

Oh, ‘the mainstream conscience’ I think has adopted the use of “pimp” as promote. That connotation has been around for years….

As for Schuster’s slip of the tongue. I don’t think so. It seemed pretty deliberate; he was pretty aware of what he was going to say and he said it. It was just stupid.

Tweety puts up a “Top Ten” list of why conservatives hate McCain:

#1 “Temper, Temper, Temper”! Dr James Dobson is quoted as saying he would never vote for McCain, because when McCain is angry, he uses “vile, foul language”.

May I just briefly say – Fuck Dr. James Dobson!!

Thank you – that is all.

Well dayum. Thank god Hillary is running and not Bay Buchanan. All that crossover vote would kill the Dems.

I think the bigger issue is why MSNBC was doing a segment AT ALL that was in any way critical of Chelsea’s invovlment in her mother’s campaign unless as part of an overview of campaigning by other candidate’s children.

Ie, Jenna and Not Jenna, Tad, Tag or whatever his name is that isn’t in the armed services, the fact that I have seen Obama’s little girls on TV at campaign events (they are too young to decide for themselves if htey want to be campaign volunteers), and most of all Shrub’s very prominent role in GHWBush’s campaigns.

My point bieng the premise of the story was cheap (like the missing blond women and Paris and Britanny stories)

I’m outta here. Keep fighting good folks.

I understand your dilemma, Jane.

I myself habitually use the word “pimp” to describe how people of both sexes promote their wares — political, sexual or other — so I really can’t criticize Shuster for it. On the other hand, using the word ‘pimp’ to refer to Hillary’s allegedly making use of her daughter crosses a line, and Shuster was right to apologize, though I think he really didn’t mean to offend.

I’m not defending MSNBC. I am getting annoyed with Clinton supporters who seem to be defending Fox News. Here’s an O’Reilly quote:

O’Reilly talking to John McCain: “But do you understand what the New York Times wants, and the far-left want? They want to break down the white, Christian, male power structure, which you’re a part, and so am I…”

Why is Hillary supporting a debate on this awful network?

Thanks, Bonkers! Feel free to “whore it out” all you’d like.

And way to remain on-topic!

I guess what I am trying to say, is that in the part of her speech I heard and in the interview, Chelsea seemed to have the poltical charisma of paint drying on the wall.

She seemed to only perk up when discussing student loan policy, and only displayed real emotion and feeling momentarily when expressing her pride in her mother’s run for president and defending her father’s political legacy (but in rather wonky terms). Main thing that really showed through for me is that she seemed like an extremely intellegent person.

I never heard anyone say that the Duchess of WTC was pimping for Rudy either. I never heard Larry Craig’s wife pimping for her husband when she stood by him when he had his press conference.

I wish all of the journalists would get fired, except KO.

Can’t imagine anyone would fuck Dr. James Dobson.

d-kos comments are a place to start but there are worse elsewhere. They also show up here, somewhat restrained, when threads that question Obama are up. The usual tip off is a pattern of “new screen” names.

In response to Wordsmith @ 106
Who? I can’t say that I have seen that. But…

You know what? I meant, HERE, where I am geographically. I didn’t mean HERE as in firedoglake.

I’ll say this about Bush, he never used his kids to campaign for him.(There that is the only nice thing I have to say).

Schuster is having one hell of a bad day – Joe Scar smacked him down this morning over the phone for interrupting him “on MY show”.

And I’ll repeat one other thing I said on the last thread – JoeScar *never* smacks Shuster around when they’re in the same room together – only when one is on the phone, the other on satellite, etc.

JoeScar is a “clown car”.

My mom, who is 81, said the other night in a discussion of the criticism of Obama supporters “yeah, that’s what they said about all of you in the ’60s” … pretty accurate. There are crazed supporters on all sides as there are regular ones and objectifying one side or the other for their enthusiasm is a big mistake if you want to encourage participation.

With Shuster – until seeing the video, I’d assumed he was saying they were getting her all “dolled up” but he’s using it in a “prostitution” way and while, yep, a lot of us use that, it really was the wrong thing to say. I’m happy he was suspended but I’d like to see such standards enforced more consistently … which means fire Tweety.

Thanks. Funny thing about language (the topic of this post, too).

A couple years ago my sister ran into some friends of mine at a summer barbeque who were expecting their first child in December. (Both women are attorneys) The expectant mother told my (mother of two)sister, “I’m looking forward to a cozy winter around the house cuddling with with the baby”.
My response to my sister was “You didn’t say anything, right?”
TO which she replied “Of course not – It would be cruel to spoil the illusion”
I kinda feel that way about the headier Obama supporters.
I voted for him in the IL primary and will do my best to get him (or Hil) elected, but I don’t expect rainbows and unicorns.

Focus, people, focus. We are about to get beat by a McCain-Huckabee ticket because we foolishly supported one of two SYMBOLIC candidates rather than choosing a safe one who could actually run without being a treasure trove for opposition research. We can’t afford any more of this stupidity. I may be moving to New Zealand next year.

Makes sense. Our speaker for our annual Frank Church Dinner will be Markos. Two of the longest running blogs out here are great promoters of the Big Orange Machine. It’s not my place; never has been.

Another connotation of “pimp” that came to mind is forcing another to sacrifice both a personal resource and personal reputation for an anticipated return that is shared inequitably.

That would certainly be the case, since Chelsea is exchanging her time and her name in order to further Hillary’s campaign. That’s not necessarily the case with Bill, since the loss of his reputation is solely due to the comments he made on his own recognizance.

Likewise, Huckabee isn’t “pimping” God…he’s certainly leveraging Him, but that’s not really pimping, in this sense.

EEEEWWWWWWW get me a bucket. :(—-

I SO agree with you. Reminds me of the 60s for sure. By the way Siun thank you so much for your thoughtful work the other night. Much appreciated.

Irony reigns in the Google Ads sidebar:

Pimp Daddy ringtones!

MMM- I seem to remember a particularly inept performance at the last gooper convention- but maybe I’m misremembering.

I guess I see it differently. the word was more a reflection on how her parents were using her and less about how she should be compared to a H** oops, I mean prostitute.

I’ve never seen Joe Scar not smack anyone around that doesn’t like.

Can’t imagine anyone would fuck Dr. James Dobson.

I assume you’re talking to me. That’s why “fuck” is the perfect word – so many possible meanings and connotations.

I only make this glaringly evident statement because the thread seems to be about whether or not “pimping” has one, or many, meanings.

And, while we are on pimping, how about all the congress critters pimping big pharma, big insurance, military-industrial complex. That is real pimping (and their families are bringing mucho money from the lobbying end of it all.

Yes, exactly.

Suspending Shuster while letting Tweety slide is like busting the jaywalker while the bank robber runs by you dropping twenties from the satchel

I would think after everything Chelsea has been through with the press, most of her life, she will overcome.

There is not such thing as an inert term. I can’t believe anyone here would think there is. All language is politically charged in America today, except real poetry. Like Chrissie Hynde said: everything touched is by political choice; the life you take [i.e., choose] is your political voice.” Referring to anyone as having been “pimped out” is intentionally derogatory. And the reference usually implies a female whore, with some contextual exceptions.

How do people miss this stuff?

Always question the premise. It’s the foundation of truth.

I think that’s it, it’s hard to go into high dudgeon over someone else’s use of a word I say all the time.

LOL

I’m not going to damn Shuster forever for his remark but what he said was really offensive and to say that any parent is pimping out their kid (no matter how old that kid is) you have to know that you are going to piss said parent off. It’s really a no-brainer. For example, if he’d said that Hillary was pimping out Bill, even I might have to chuckle over that one. And then he went on to say “in some weird sort of way” which suggests that there’s something “icky” about it totally takes it out of the “pimp my ride” or “pimp my blog” category.

Are you snarking? and which bush are you referring too? Shrub cetainly did have Jenna and not Jenna cmapign for him. Hell, he even had them do that lame bit at the damn convention.

His father had both Shrub and Jeb campaign for him

I’ve never seen Joe Scar not smack anyone around that doesn’t like.

Mika? Sure.

Another man, in the same room at the same time? Not so much, unless qualified by a quick apology or other pussified cop-out.

Frankly, I felt the same way about Imus. He was one of the only of the radio jocks with a national following with a Democratic leaning, and while his comments were outrageous, he was treated in ways that the jerks like Limbaugh, Savage etc never have been.

Wasn’t really speaking to anyone in particular- just that the combination of words in the same sentence got my attention and causes me to laugh out loud.

I don’t want to come across the wrong way but have you ever heard of this television program?

“I have to believe he’s largely paying for the sins of Matthews”

bingo.

(now to go through the comments)

Um…yeah.

Actually it wasn’t snark. I never saw them with him. Maybe I am wrong, if so I take it back.

He wasn’t. . .not like everybody on FDL.

will i get fried for saying i’m voting green?

and this may be my last vote too. At least i’ll not suffer from buyer’s remorse again. Cynthia Mckinney was one of very few dems on the hill doing her job. She’ll get my vote.

which explains a lot. . . .

From a few months ago:

Fox News host John Gibson on his radio show: “…the kid in Cleveland who did the shooting today — three teachers, three students — white…. And I could tell right away ’cause he killed himself. Black shooters don’t do that; they shoot and move on.”

Why would any Democratic candidate have a debate on a network that has John Gibson as a host?

Amen.

My mom, who is 81, said the other night in a discussion of the criticism of Obama supporters “yeah, that’s what they said about all of you in the ’60s” … pretty accurate. There are crazed supporters on all sides as there are regular ones and objectifying one side or the other for their enthusiasm is a big mistake if you want to encourage participation.

There is enthusiasm and then there is “something else”. I am not sure how to describe it other than it is an “adolescent male ego” thing. I see the type of behavior on sports, car, camera etc sites. From a causal observation. that behavior was least common with pro-Edwards, then Clinton, then Obama posters.

So if Shuster is suspended – does that mean we gotta endure *Tucker* some more, before he’s banished forever to covering individual candidacies – or perhaps hurricane and blizzard reports?

Exactly.

Yeah, Mika, of course, but if that’s his m.o., I’m missing it. I’ll look for it more.

I do know that that show has the broadest range of guests of any and it’s ironic that the show came about from the “nappy-headed ho’s” comment.

wow.

JG Ballard?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W…..ald_Reagan

You do know that Fox is the network that will be providing the feed to the other networks during the Democratic National convention this year?

Geez. Get this guy off the air now! I mean really.

Gibson- and Fox probably don’t have a large african american demographic.

Yeah he was subbing for Tucker. That one sort of backfired.

A management group points out that if there are two jailers- one of which kicks hell out of the prisoners from time to time- and one of which who is always pleasant to them- eventually the prisoners will eventually only pay attention to the asshole.

That sounded like a very sincere apology to me…!

I grew up in a time and place and culture where the word “pimp” was not used as commonly as perhaps it is now. When I learned the word, probably as a teenager, I learned that it meant a man who was involved in prostituting women (or as a verb, the act of doing so).

While I don’t agree with Jane that the word is necessarily ubiquitous now, it may be in certain circles, such as the blogosphere, where it is used to mean commenting on a blog to promote some other blog or a story on another blog.
I have not heard it used as often in a general context.

I am not shocked by Shuster’s use of the word to describe Chelsea Clinton, as I do not think he meant to imply that she was literally a prostitute or that her mother or father or anyone involved in the Clinton campaign was literally a pimp. But I do think that a former president’s daughter, working in her mother’s political campaign, deserves a little more respect than that.

BREAKING: I’m watching MSNBC right now and David Shuster just appeared on camera and apologized for the “pimp” remark. Not sure if it was on the end of Hardball or the beginning of Tucker.

‘mainstream conscience’????

did you say ‘ mainstream conscience”???

that’s an oxymoron, and i’m not trying to be funny. Pimp means exactly what it always meant, lazy ‘mainstream ‘ bs notwithstanding. Just likes “sucks” means what it always did and was not used in polite company. Just cause someone says (as the Repugs are so fond of doing) something means something different than it always has, doesn’t mean it’s true. How can progressives be so ready to buy into these Orwellian shifts of meaning? It really blows my mind, and no one notices? Not even here? Very discouraging.

Jeez

Hillary Clinton has gone to incredible lengths for 20 years to protect Chelsea from the media spotlight. Do you really believe she is FORCING Chelsea to campaign for her? Chelsea is an adult. She is justifiably proud of both of her parents. Hillary has done a great job raising and I’ll bet she was raised to make her own decisions.

Yeah he was here two days before our democratic caucus. 15000+ in Boise came out on a snowy, slippery, COLD Saturday morning at 8:30 am – and before.

Great, so instead of Shuster hosting “Tucker” we’ve got Noron!

I am sorry about Shuster, but maybe there is a silver lining. Do you think that Rachel could be brought into play more now?

It didn’t strike me as sexist toward Hillary. It was sexist toward Chelsea, though. I can’t imagine Shuster saying that Romney was “pimping out” Tagg or any of the other Five Brothers.

I think it was a terrible comment for other reasons, which Digby articulates very well. Certainly we never have heard of the Cheney daughters being pimped out. Or the Bush twins.

I’m sure if Al Gore was running, we would now hear something similar about his daughter(s).

I also agree with Jane and Josh Marshall that David Shuster is being hoisted by Chris Matthews’ petard, rather than his own. I guess Matthews is indeed untouchable by the network brass.

My GF was a low information voter who is getting a political re-education. She has not liked Hillary for 20 years and said she would never vote for her.

I think every time something like this happens (MSNBC) thousands of undecided and anti-Hillary female voters switch to her.

Let them keep it up!

This is another illustration of the trivialization of today’s Big Media.

Exhibit A:

If someone’s going to be suspended for horrific comments, how about John Gibson for his unforgivable drivel over Heath Ledger’s death?

Exhibit B:

The President of the United States is allowing, perhaps promoting torture. The story of the day is a stupid, ultimately trivial comment by a cable news talking head.

Huh. Timing is everything.

Hillary is going to “go it alone” and have the a debate by herself. Obama had agreed to do two, of which one was going to be on MSNBC.

Separately, a debate that Obama did agree to — one of two — is now in jeopardy, and it’s the Clinton campaign that might sit that one out. Scheduled for Feb. 26 in Ohio, that debate is supposed to be televised by MSNBC, but the Clinton campaign is upset about recent comments made by MSNBC’s David Shuster, in which he suggested that Chelsea Clinton was being “pimped out” by her mother’s campaign.

http://www.salon.com/politics/…..=whitelist

Ah, the plot thickens, which is exactly what the Clintons wanted. Hook…Line…And Sinker.

To be fair, I don’t spend time counting the offenses on cable news, and Chris Matthews alone seems to have huge problems with powerful women, period. But even so, you yourself have (properly) criticized Hillary for agreeing to go on Fox. Maybe you could argue that Fox hates the Clintons more than it hates women, but with Hillary hate they get a twofer: they can hate her as a feminist and as a Clinton.

I watch Olbermann occasionally, I can’t stand Chris Matthews.

BREAKING: I’m watching MSNBC right now and David Shuster just appeared on camera and apologized for the “pimp” remark. Not sure if it was on the end of Hardball or the beginning of Tucker.

Tucker… As I remarked, I thought he was very sincere in his apology…

Someone mentioned that “language matters” and I’m going to expand on that. The past 7+ years of bush/Cheney/Rove/et al. have been one huge slimey demonstration of the power of language. How you can make Democrats look like traitors and cowards. How you can make anyone who disagrees with you into the enemy. How it is OK to attack someone on a personal and gender basis. And now, how it is OK to infer that the daughter of the first female candidate for the presidency of the United States is a prostitute.
What you say and how you say it carries great weight and the Democratic leadership in congress have been flogged to death with this horrific junk. This ‘traitor-tagging’ is, I believe, the reason Nancy Pelosi pre-emptively took impeachment off the table. It is the same reason we ended up in August with FISA. I think it behooves us all to examine what is said and how it is said, by everyone, and send a clear message that this totally inappropriate language and behavior is no longer acceptable. For anyone.

I basically agree with the content of your statement, but you left ‘Dad’ Clinton out all together. As a father myself, I have to wonder why. Some dads do take part in raising their daughters you know.

I don’t think he should have been suspended for his stupid comment. An apology should have been enough. I don’t think he has a history of stupid comments unlike Tweety,scarJoe and Tucker.

I don’t think Hillary was politically smart to agree to a debate on Fox at the beginning of the week and then threaten MSNBC to cancel a debate by the week’s end. I’m sure Fox has said worst things about the Clinton’s.

This is a problem more with vernacular, and using words that have “new” meanings on the “street”. Not a good thing for a news reporter to do on air.

It’s like the N word and Ho and so forth. Some people use these terms and don’t see them as negative etc. but you can’t use them with that meaning on national TV. What he did was unprofessional. He meant to probably was that Chelsea was out advocating for her mom and nothing is wrong with that. Had she not everyone would think something was wrong with her.

Dumb Mr. Shuster. Use your head. Walter Cronkite would never do that would he?

This is a common metaphor, but a dumb forum for him to use it. This is not sexist as it is a common metaphor used for both sexes — Puta and Puto in Spanish.

However, I think the MSNBC slant over the last several months has had a tinge of sexism in it. I think Shuster likes to “pee with the big dogs” and use metaphors that will please the likes of Chris Mathews. Dumb move. I feel certain he will be fired in the next few days.

However, Hillary should know that playing “victim” will not bring her votes. People don’t vote for President because they feel sorry for someone. The most powerful office in the free world does not need a cry-baby — Edmund Muskey or Billary.

Hillary can’t win, not because she is a woman, but because she is the quintessential grubby politician who will do anything to win.

People are sick and tired of this, regardless of party. Congress is at a 22% approval rating for this very reason. They want someone tough as nails, and who always takes the high road of honor.

Another thought I have is that even when used to describe something other than prostitution, I think the term “pimp” seems to imply some kind of negative judgement, some implication that there is something improper or illegitimate about the activity being “pimped.” I don’t think there is anything inappropriate about Chelsea Clinton working in support of her mother’s campaign. I’m an Obama (former Edwards) supporter, btw.

In response to Wordsmith @ 119
‘mainstream conscience’????

did you say ‘ mainstream conscience”???

that’s an oxymoron, and i’m not trying to be funny. Pimp means exactly what it always meant, lazy ‘mainstream ‘ bs notwithstanding. Just likes “sucks” means what it always did and was not used in polite company. Just cause someone says (as the Repugs are so fond of doing) something means something different than it always has, doesn’t mean it’s true. How can progressives be so ready to buy into these Orwellian shifts of meaning? It really blows my mind, and no one notices? Not even here? Very discouraging.

Mainstream conscience is the phrase someone up thread used and I included it. I know what the word means and I also know that there is more than one connotation to it, and more than one is commonly used. However it is used, it’s rarely if ever a favorable thing regardless of the connotation.

Whether I use the phrase or not (pimp) matters little; I don’t in polite or other company.

Presumably the Clinton camp will withdraw its threat to withdraw, given the suspension. On the other hand, Matthews’ misogyny vastly exceeds Schuster’s.

But if they don’t, debates are generally seen as Hillary’s strong point: Obama gives much better speeches, Hillary tends to do better in debates, though Obama’s improved a lot. I’m not sure it’s in her interest to sit out debates.

Great. The sympathy vote. How exactly is Obama responsible for our incredibly misogynistic society?

I really want to end the BigMoney takeover of America, if it’s not too late already. There’s a chance that Obama might make steps in that direction. With another Clinton, there is basically no chance of that happening. It would be sad if the final nail in the Constitution’s coffin was nailed by sympathy.

Is it OK to say that Obama pimps out Michelle, and his little girls?????

OF COURSE NOT!

Nobody would EVER say such a thing. But with the Clinton’s it is different I guess.

This is very simple for me. It boils down to “pimp” used in the traditional sense as something most societies don’t condone that demeans women, versus “pimp” used in the contemporary cultural sense the way a lot of kids do as in “pimp your rig” applied to a car, or moding a computer.

Let me tell you how the Clinton campaign sees Shuster’s apology spots–two simple words “More Airtime.” They’re very happy this happened, because they aren’t going to be able to raise money the way Obama can from here on out–he has tons of untapped sources that she doesn’t have. I’m personally glad about that.

I’m going to say this again. I saw Chelsea live. Her vocabulary was disappointing. I thought she was vapid, superficial, and terrible. I polled the audience at the live event. They were not impressed at all except negatively. I hope Chesea keeps campainging, and I wish she’d get the courage to go to a place like Stanford where she graduated so they’d ask her some meaningful questions, and force her to search for meaningful answers.

If you said “pimping out his two young daughters” it would be a strange reference, because they aren’t being used overtly to campaign. And again, it gets down to the way the word pimp has pervaded the culture as slang, particularly in the younger high school aged generation.

You also get into the area when you use a word that had an original salacious connotation with small children in the case of Obama’s kids that crosses an unacceptable line. I’d say the same if Chelsea were their age. But Chelsea’s not their age. She’s 27. No one in their right mind thinks Shuster meant Chelsea is being sent out as a hooker for Senator Clinton the pimp. That’s what it boils down to for me.

And again, again, I’m basing my whole framework on the fact that now a spinoff as “pimp your rig” the kids at the three schools in my neighborhood use the term all the time. And they use a lot worse. Many of them use the MF term all the time. Many girls who are ages 10 and up use it–they use it if I’m walking by with my dog–they don’t care–it’s been integrated into their language. If they were my daughters, they wouldn’t be using it as frequently. I don’t find it attractive. But I’m reporting the facts.

And before people start with the mysogynist rap, again I’m interpreting Shuster’s use of the term in the colloquial semantic sense it’s now used in our culture. It’s a word I grew up with using in a different way so it didn’t get used very much period–then.

If Shuster had said “pimping out Michelle” it would have been different but in that context I don’t think an insult because she is a campaign fixture–and again no one could construe that he means that Obama is going to be the pimp in the traditional sense.

Michelle is campaigning as a spouse who makes helpful speeches in the view of the Obama campaign because she is a good speaker, and she has a good education and makes a good appearance, and she helps get votes.

Bill Clinton is campaigning as a huge magnet because he has been President and he helps get votes. His ability to communicate is legend.

If someone said she’s pimping out the President I’d interpret it the same way.

There are three schools in my neighborhood–and so we have lots of kids during the daylight hours. They use the word all the time. If I had used it growing up at the dinner table, I’d have been scolded by both parents. So would many of you, if not nearly all of you. If I called my mom up now, and worked “pimp” into a sentence–I know her exact response–”Why are you using that language.” My mom isn’t familiar with the frequent cultural use of the term, and if she were, she wouldn’t approve.

Would I ever use the word pimp in any context with someone’s parents I know other than possibly “your kid is sure pimping his rig” with respect to a car or a computer? No way.

My own take is that it was offensive, and probably innacurate.

The fact that it is ubiquitous says a lot more about the deterioration of standards in order to sound “hip” and contemporary and in touch with youth culture. It’s the Imus-ization of the media.

Pimps require someone to be a whore. To “pimp out” someone thus means that they are sent to forcibly or coercively prostitute (i.e. sell-out) themselves for an unworthy or immoral cause.

I would suggest that Chelsea really does believe her mother would be a fine President. Does she herself want to be a politician…and is she all that polished as one herself. No! But it doesn’t mean that she isn’t truly in support of her mothers camapign.

It also seems that she has set up some ground rules in regards to what she will and won’t do. Pimps usually don’t give their charges much discretion on the acts performed.

BTW Prostitutes don’t require pimps (or Madams). They can operate independently (a la the Dutch system). And by cutting out the middle man they keep the cash themselves. There are a lot more “prostitutes” out there in the media and consulting world that don’t actually believe in their “clients” causes than we might think from what they say.

I don’t think Chelsea Clinton is either a “paid” young lady for immoral purposes, or is being “pimped out” as such.

how long have I been telling everyone they aren’t going to allow hillary or obama to be the next president?

that they haven’t been amassing all this power to give it away?

martial law…it’s getting closer

Updated to include some evidence from Saildude he posted downthread. See below where it says “UPDATED” for the news.

Exclusive! The FBI Deputizes Business
By Matthew Rothschild, February 7, 2008
Today, more than 23,000 representatives of private industry are working quietly with the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The members of this rapidly growing group, called InfraGard, receive secret warnings of terrorist threats before the public does—and, at least on one occasion, before elected officials. In return, they provide information to the government, which alarms the ACLU. But there may be more to it than that. One business executive, who showed me his InfraGard card, told me they have permission to “shoot to kill” in the event of martial law.

Sick Of It’s diary :: ::
So basically, the FBI is putting corporate capos in charge of security. And they’re giving them shoot-to-kill rights.

One business owner in the United States tells me that InfraGard members are being advised on how to prepare for a martial law situation—and what their role might be. He showed me his InfraGard card, with his name and e-mail address on the front, along with the InfraGard logo and its slogan, “Partnership for Protection.” On the back of the card were the emergency numbers that Schneck mentioned.

prepare yourself

Also, I have to say that I am offended that Hillary is accused of playing the victim because she stands up for her daughter. GMAB.

I saw this clip last night and couldn’t believe that any responsible journalist would use such a sexist term in referring to a woman, but especially in a discussion of the appropriate roles for relatives of candidates in a campaign. In fact it was one sexist comment too many. By all accounts David Shuster is an excellent journalist in the political arena, but that certainly doesn’t give him a free pass to trash women. It’s not OK because it’s David Shuster. It’s sad and pitiful that he is so accustomed to this level of discourse that he’s sorry if “some” of us felt the term was a pejorative.
To put it simply, I was pissed. But after viewing the comments on several sites today, I realize that it’s all Hillary’s fault.

While I think Tweety has been far more egregious and far more often, he is, however much a jackass, still a just an editorialist. No rational person thinks he’s serving up actual reporting. The same is true of Scarborough – he’s a Republican shill, cheerfully acknowledges it, and spews accordingly.

Shuster has been put forward as a reporter, not a pundit – isn’t that what we all found so refreshing during the Libby trial? He did the research, understood the context, and reported the story.

Now he’s been sucked into the Scarborough/Hardball “let’s sit around and shoot the shit” venues, and it’s going to kill his credibility, if it hasn’t already.

Pity. He apparently decided he wanted to be a “broadcast journalist” instead of a reporter.

And I would add that if either of my parents had ever run for president, I’m sure I would have done everything I possibly could to help them get elected. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Oh BTW…there is another use of the term “pimped out”. It means to festoon a car, or other item (even ones own attire) in an outrageously ostentatious manner suggesting wealth acquired from immoral or shady means.

Lots of kids use that term in that sense far more than they way that Shuster appears to have applied it to Chelsea. It means something quite different in that usage.

Sun Tzu had that principle of “kill the rooster to scare the monkey.”
But who’s the monkey? Tweety? Fox? Or…?

more, my bold;

The meeting started off innocuously enough, with the speakers talking about corporate espionage,” he says. “From there, it just progressed. All of a sudden we were knee deep in what was expected of us when martial law is declared. We were expected to share all our resources, but in return we’d be given specific benefits.” These included, he says, the ability to travel in restricted areas and to get people out.
But that’s not all.

“Then they said when—not if—martial law is declared, it was our responsibility to protect our portion of the infrastructure, and if we had to use deadly force to protect it, we couldn’t be prosecuted,” he says.

This is the most pissed off I’ve been since the Plame saga. Shuster was one of ours and Hillary gets him fired for saying “pimped”? PIMPED? Everyone says that – “pimp mobile” “pimp daddy” “pimping me out” – it’s just a funny word that people use. This is Foley-Craig level hypocrisy – and as bad as all that South Carolina race-baiting.

And this sudden prudishness from the team that has no problems with squirting semen all over the oval office rug? GIVE ME A BREAK. You can’t have it both ways. Here’s the only Hillary number that still works: 703-469-2008. I told them to get Shuster his job back by Monday or I’m out.

Fired or suspended?

You do understand that “suspended” does not mean the same thing as “fired.”

And what does Bill’s zipper problem have to do with Senator Clinton refusing to let her daughter be denigrated by a pundit using inappropriate language?

There are more uses of the word “pimp” than you have listed, even if they all begin from the same use.

This probably has been said, but here goes. It is to HRC’s advantage to be offended. Her prime electorate is of older women who care about such language –e.g. have not been in culture where ‘ho is tolerated–and who care mightily about their daughters’ reputations. But I think you should be asking if Shuster is considered to have said something intolerable, what happens to her argument that only she can stand up to the Republicans.

Over at dkos, the shuster issue merits 1500 comments, while a diary by a member of the house who supports impeachment receive 1/10 as many.

Priorities out of wack?

This is the exact kind of hypocritical nonsense that got the whole party branded as “out of touch liberal elitists” in the first place.

It’s not inappropiate language unless it’s meant that way. When Jane uses the f-word in her posts do you think she’s talking about fornication? If you don’t get that Shuster is one of the very few good guys, you haven’t been around here for long. I remember when this site got about 500 hits a day and I got on here and told people to try to track comments by some dkos poster named “reddhedd” who sounded smart. Shuster has been with firedoglake and everything it stands for (or used to stand for) from the beginning.

I think that’s it, it’s hard to go into high dudgeon over someone else’s use of a word I say all the time.

Food for thought? Maybe you shouldn’t say the word all the time?

I find it hard to believe that you are serious – or sincere – in the comment I am replying to or the one before.

This is utterly outrageous! Shuster is the best they got, except for KO, but for a simple matter like this he gets suspended? Yet Tweety can say to the wife of a presidential hopeful, ”Do you bite his balls like that?” Even the audience showed a major reaction to that one, but I don’t remember the brass taking Chris to task for it! I’m disgusted, and I’ll write in support of Shuster, whether anyone else here does or not.

I think that if I said to my students “Chelsea Clinton was ‘pimped out’” 99% of them would think that she was dressed up like a pimp with a long, fur-collared coat, big sun-glasses, and lots of gold-jewelry. I think that Shusters usage is one that is specialized to the political or corporate world (and perhaps derived from an underworld source) more than the youth/hip-hop sub-culture…which is interesting.

I guess I’m supposed to beg forgiveness for infringing on your rights to be superior for having been here earlier than me.

MSNBC, I mean General Electric, has a huge stake in making sure Senator Clinton becomes the Dem nominee. Have any of seen the GE CEO (or someone in mgmt) on Moanin’ Schmoe? He’s obviously a Clinton supporter, and for good reason. This guy and the Clintons are millionaires. If you don’t think Clinton will deliver to the corporations before us little people, you are disillusioned.

I think that your comment boils down to the equivalent of what the meaning of “is” is. :-) Seriously, irrespective of the many popular street meanings to “pimp”, I would be deeply offended is I were accused in a public forum of “pimping” my daughter. There would certainly be a huge outcry if Obama were accused of “pimping” his children, no matter what popular meaning is given to the term. Why is it OK to trash Hillary and her family in this manner? Even the straight-talking McCain thought it OK to insult Chelsea’s parentage at one time.

Woo-hoo, Rachel just said she’ll be on KO tonite!

Oh BTW…there is another use of the term “pimped out”. It means to festoon a car, or other item (even ones own attire) in an outrageously ostentatious manner suggesting wealth acquired from immoral or shady means.

Lots of kids use that term in that sense far more than they way that Shuster appears to have applied it to Chelsea. It means something quite different in that usage.

Sorry, don’t buy it. You better believe that those kids know exactly what a “pimped out” car means. It means making a car look like a pimp’s (as in a pimp for prostitutes) car.

If I used this word in this context around my grandchildren, you better believe that my son and daughter-in-law, would chastise me promptly. In front of the grands, I might add, and rightfully so.

The fact that it is ubiquitous says a lot more about the deterioration of standards in order to sound “hip” and contemporary and in touch with youth culture. It’s the Imus-ization of the media.

Yes, absolutely. This is a point I meant to make as to how it’s pervasive in the rhetoric of predominantly school aged people–and including older students through grad school/med schools and law schools.

One thing struck me in the hooplah of the Imus situation. Oprah sent her best friend Gayle King out to a University and Gayle did a discussion with a group of college aged women and rap stars debating whether rap lyrics are demeaning. Most of the rap labels are owned by mainstream corporations like Time Warner–big respectable suits who pose as community pillars.

I think Rap lyrics aren’t important snapshots of the culture in the hood and the desire to get out of a bad neighborhood and better yourself as a lot of rap musicians use when they defend the music.

I think they’re destructive and they not only demean women–they promote a culture that doesn’t make things better for kids who need the right influences and education. I know that they are played constantly by African Americans, whites and kids of all races, and that kids of all races dance to lyrics that I dare say would be offensive to most people at FDL.

In one of the largest cities and media markets in the country, in the top 10 always as far as TV goes, a song called (I’m going to shorten this so I don’t offend anyone) called “Back Your Ass Up…” with lyrics as demeaning as they come to most women–did a poll on this as well was the top selling single for months. It sold more than any other title and was popular at parties. DJ’s played it all over the place.

If I had access to either the ipods of the women that Gayle King sat with whose responses I applauded who articulately opposed rap lyrics as demeaning and destructive and said that in no uncertain terms to the rap artists Gayle had on that show, or the ipods of the women on the Rutgers basketball team, I’m willing to bet hands down that those very same lyrics would be prominent on the play list of those ipods.

Go figure–’cause I can’t.

Urban Dictionary

Pimped Out

Suggesting that Shusters use of the term isn’t the same as most younger people understand the term at all. It’s an “inside the beltway” concept.

Which means these folks should get out into the real world a little more….they need to use words as the rest of us use them.

Just a note. Hillary’s not getting Shuster suspended, the thousands of angry viewers are. They’re the ones who sent thousands of emails to MSNBC complaining about the comment. They’ve been saying for weeks that the entire network has lost any semblance of neutrality in the campaign and that that the commenters are frequently using misogynistic language to that end. The “pimp” comment was the breaking point.

Bill’s got a head problem instead of a zipper problem and what does one have to do with the other. Now wage earner Shuster is suspended or fired because the Clintons got him fired. Just more Clinton bullshit. I think it is absolutely marvelous that Senator Clinton has stood up to the barker Shuster. Trouble, we’ve got trouble, right here in River City. That’s trouble with a capital T

Alternative Clinton response: “We regret Mr. Shuster’s statement and accept his apology. Let’s move on/”

But if you told your students that the Clintons were pimping Chelsea out, would they still think in terms of fur coats and bling?

Oh BTW…there is another use of the term “pimped out”. It means to festoon a car, or other item (even ones own attire) in an outrageously ostentatious manner suggesting wealth acquired from immoral or shady means.

I disagree, A “pimped out ride”, imo, simply means that a vehicle has been upgraded with lots of shiny, high-tech stuff.

Have you ever seen “Pimp my Ride”? Me either. But I do know that most of the vehicles they make over belong to more main-stream, artistic, or athletic, persons who want vehicles which stand out, acquired by persons in businesses which, while highly paid, are in no way illegal or shady whatsoever.

Queen Latifah, Derick Jeter, Shaq, Lebron James…. Are there tricked out vehicles signs that they, while making millions of dollars per year – legally – must also be doing something illegal or underhanded in order to be able to simply enjoy driving a vehicle I wouldn’t be caught dead in?

Irrespective of the truth of your comment, MSNBC has been virulently anti-Clinton for some time now, so your statement doesn’t really hold much water.

off topic (sorry) But if any Obama supporters have any extra or leftover signs, buttons, etc. there is a website where people are matched up with people in the upcoming primary/caucus states that need material (the official stuff is on back order….too much demand) http://www.obamacycle.com/
Back on topic, how can we get Tweety an early vacation?

You’re not even close about who gets their ride ‘pimped out’ on MTV. It’s almost always some really regular everyday guy or gal with hardly a dime to their name and some kind of barely running piece of junk car that cost them almost nothing but that they are attached to. The vehicle makeover is always insanely expensive and elaborate beyond the owner’s wildest dreams.

What has happened to this country that BOTH sides of the political spectrum have become so laughably and anally prudish, humorless, unhip and repressed? I’m moving to Europe. Some of the comments here sound like Foley, Craig and Haggard in 2005. If you’re that uptight, what are you hiding in your closet?

What do you think the chances are that Chelsea Clinton doesn’t used “pimped” in her own slang? What do you think the chances are that Chelsea Clinton would be offended by ANYTHING after what she’s been through?

This is all a hypocritical Karl Rovian attack on Shuster for his politics … pure and simple. You’ve become what you came here to fight.

My take on it is ‘promoting’ ‘putting her out there’ either way I respect that it is offensive to some and not to others (due entirely to their use: colloquialism, historical use)

I also remember, along the lines of the paradox I was just pointing out–Maureen Dowd writing a column about how when she was out and about with her friends–I could dig it up–that her friends loved some of the rap lyrics that are overtly demeaning to women. One song I remember she mentioned was by Eminem and it wasn’t complementary towards women. Modo’s home girls loved the song she rhapsodized.

I’m still trying to “Go Figure.”

Modos home girls wanted to imagine themselves as twenty somethings even though they were 50 somethings? I dunno. I guess.

But the lyrics were just as demeaning to women of any age.

I see it differently. I think ALL THE MSM (and their agents) are corporate prositutes!!!! Here’s what holds water in my mind: Hillary Clinton will sell out Average Joe and Average Jane in a heartbeat if it benefits coporate America. Blast away!

Which means these folks should get out into the real world a little more….they need to use words as the rest of us use them.

And again I’ll disagree. Who says that the younger generation’s use of the word “pimp’ is any less valid than the use “us” (whoever the hell that is) seem to think it is.

Dictionaries are published and updated every year. Apparently, “us” no longer have to pay attention?

I prefer the name Barackite and no one used the word ‘hoe’ to refer to Chelsea and NO I really wouldn’t view it any differently. Some people aren’t going to view it as bad because of how the word is commonly used today but others will be because of the original meaning of the word

Look, when Shuster used the term he certainly didn’t mean that Chelsea was being festooned with gold chains and fur by Hillary. He insinuated that Hillary was prostituting Chelsea for votes. That is well over the top for a public figure, let alone a media personality to openly say. That said, I do feel that Shuster just got caught up in the macho jock posturing that goes on at MSNBC, and is paying the price. Hillary didn’t ask for Shuster to be suspended or fired, yes in the classic blame-the-victim approach of some Hillary Haters, she is now given the ultimatum to “lie down and take it”.

Of course she should stand up for her daughter. That’s not the point. Many around here today have been pointing out the countless amount of times even much worse things have been said about Chelsea over the YEARS. The Clintons never did anything like this before.

In fact Hillary appears regularly on the biggest culprit of this stuff, Pox News, where their creator and current boss, Roger Ailes, had created a “barking dog” video of Chelsea when he was Lush Limpballz producer. The Clintons now hang out with Ailes and Murdoch at fundraisers and lunches.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..41823.html

Hillary deserves criticism for not standing up to the Sexist Press to defend herself and daughter more often. To do so now, all of a sudden, and for David Shuster fer chrissakes really smacks of calculation and hypocrisy.

Not only that, it plays right into the Pox News theme of the big bad NBC. And Shuster was not liked by the Noize Machine, so now they’ll have this constantly drone on about.

Upthread at #188 I pointed out another reason for all this happening at this point in time. Obama shut out Pox news in January of 2007 for the misleading reporting about his childhood. He just recently appeared on Pox again. Could Hillary be following his lead, just like with the “Change” theme (I’ve been creating change for 35 years!), then the “Underdog” theme, and now this. We’re electing a leader, correct?

Well, Bill Clinton has a daughter and that didn’t stop him from humiliating her and his wife with multiple very public extra-marital affairs. I wish Chelsea didn’t have to see what kind of a dog her father really is. Family values and character lack in that household.

I realize that I am much older than most here but I found the “pimping” of Chelsea very offensive. I would only use the word in the original meaning and would not talk about “pimping” people or things in a casual way. If the media or pundits want to take Hillary on or even Bill, fine, but this is their daughter – what does she have to do with anything? I have 3 daughters and those would be fighting words to me.

The “pimp your ride” terminology is used a lot by kids I know who love to build/mod computers the way their generation would have tinkered with cars back in the day–under the hood and cosmetically. The term “pimp” has become a substitute or synonym for “mod.”

I would personally like to see Tweety suspended for good. His non-apology in the evening was followed the next day in “Morning Joe” by Scarborough and a few other analysts coming to his rescue and deriding those “sensitive folks” who can’t take a joke. It really has to stop. If they get the message with a short suspension of David Schuster, then I’m all for it. He would not be my first choice, but I’ll take what I can get.

It’s not just the misogyny in using a term that suggests Hillary is a madam pimping out her prostitute daughter. There’s also misogyny in suggesting that somehow Chelsea doesn’t really support her mother. Because, honestly, why would Chelsea be proud of or genuinely want to support that evil, frigid witch of a mother. It’s a way of demeaning Hillary’s status as a mother and, thus, demeaning Hillary herself. That he also gets a sleazy shot at Chelsea is just a bonus.

You would never hear them speak this way about any other candidate’s kids work on behalf of their parents. Why? Because it’s a given that kids usually support their parents campaign (except in Rudy’s case). A given for everyone but Hillary’s kid.

But what this is really about is anger over Chelsea’s refusal to talk to reporters. He’s pissed that she’ll talk to super delegates and, heavens!, voters but not to him (and honestly given the treatment has given her parents, who can blame her). So he smears her and her mother. That’ll teach them. It’s a tactic used all too often by the press. I’m glad he got called on it. I hope Clinton and all the campaigns continue to call them on it.

And in retrospect, I think the Fox inclusion in the debate invite was to make the point that the Clinton campaign no longer views them as any worse than MSNBC. Which is not to say that Fox has gotten better, just that the others are sinking to Fox-like levels. CNN has Ari Fleisher, Carl Bernstein, and Bill Bennett doing commentary for heaven’s sake. Is Pat Buchanen really so much worse?

Yup. As I noted earlier, they are savy politicians. And, for what it is worth, I thought having Chelsea call the four women on the view was really tacky.

Well lookee here…The Shuster story is one the Yahoo frontpage headlines. Mission accomplished for Team Clinton.

And by the way, it was started by her campaign:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talk….._war_w.php

But if you told your students that the Clintons were pimping Chelsea out, would they still think in terms of fur coats and bling?

Probably not…but I suspect that they’d have to think about what the meaning was that the user was suggesting. They’d likely find the implications a bit insulting, or at least intended to be (see my #201), since the only way one can interpret it is that there is a “pimp” and then there is “a whore”.

I was merely stating that while the terms have become widespread, people who think that they are beinmg hip often misuse them and interpret them in their own obtuse way. If Chelsea was seen at a party dressed with a big fedora, sunglasses, and a zoot-suit saying she was “pimped out” wouldn’t be sexist, and not crass in the ways that many of her peers use the terms.
The way Shuster did was. He essentially called her a prostitute…

…which isn’t really that much of an insult in the Washington belt-way IMO since the vast bulk of denizens…whether politicians, lawyers, consultants, advisers, and media types fulfill such functions.

But I doubt Chelsea is one of those “prostitutes”. Some people here who seem to know Shuster seem to think that he’s an okay guy. Not sure that he falls into the motley group of “temple prostitutes” above.

But I think that there were better words for him to use…”farmed out” or “tasked with” would have carried more accurate meaning.

You’re not even close about who gets their ride ‘pimped out’ on MTV

You’ll pardon me if I don’t take that as an insult? Never said I was terribly familiar with the show.

it’s almost always some really regular everyday guy or gal with hardly a dime to their name and some kind of barely running piece of junk car that cost them almost nothing but that they are attached to.

And from that, I’m to infer that they’re criminals, wannabe’s, or otherwise engaged in nefarious activity because they got their ‘ride” updated?

In this instance, regardless of who the owner of the vehicle is, “pimping” it does not, in any way, infer criminality.

Ah, so the children of every adulterer are open game since their parents already humiliated them. Nice! Let’s stone them next.

I am a news junkie. I have watched MSNBC religiously since Keith Olberman started Countdown. I occasionally watch Hardball when my stomach can take it. But lately, the vitriol coming from Chris Matthews trying to slam Hillary Clinton is beyond the pale. And to top it off, Keith O has taken on some of that same bias. I am extremely dissappointed in Keith, as I had begun to think Keith could walk on water. And then to see what David Shuster said! Each of them should be sat down and sent to the naughty chair till they see the error of their ways in using sexist bigotry to discuss presidential politics.
Keith’s Special Comments are succinct, insightful and spot on. Their talk about Hillary is erroneous and biased.
The most egregious example (I can think of off hand)was the night of the Florida primary. They all excoriated Hillary for having the nerve to speak to her supporters after the polls were closed and she had won. They accused her of being a cheat and they proceeded to mock her speech and her all night. They never once mentioned the fact that ONLY Barrack Obama had political ads showing before the primary, in direct opposition to the democrat orders from on high. They all had their names on the ballot, but since Hillary won this state with a wide margin it was mocked as if it was inconsequential. But when Obama won a small state with either a large Black majority, or a state with a caucus rather than a primary, it was held up as a an example of his ability to attract a wide audience. Too much ! And then when Hillary won Michigan, all it was mentioned was that she was the only Democratic on the ballot. But never mentioned that the other cnadidates had their names removed because they were so far behind. And now, they are talking about having a caucus in FL and MI to give them those states a voice. Not fair coverage. I just want fair and inciteful coverage.
I expect a lot from Keith. I never expected him to fall victim to the allure of being smug, bigoted, and unfair.

Big picture thing here. I just told my sweetie about this, and what is the response: Good, what will be left in the minds of everyone in a few days is that the Clintons were using Chelsea for their own political ends. In other words, it is somewhat the same meme as Bill being put out there to campaign for Hillary as the official attack dog.

FWIW, and directed towards nothing visible on this thread, it’s time for some folks to take a deep breathe and think twice before hitting the Submit Comment button.

And by the way, it was started by her campaign:

I thought it was started by Shuster?

I think Shuster could have said it differently, but his perception of the incident was spot on! I have a problem with the lack of character that runs in the Clinton family. Lack of honor has permeated the Clinton family unit. I think Chelsea is a victim of BOTH of her parents lack of judgment on several levels.

You are sadly mistaken. I wrote to NBC as soon as he made the comment. Enough is enough.

No, it was started by Shuster’s parents that fateful night many years ago when David was made.

We’ll see. Hope that’s correct.

I prefer the name Barackite and no one used the word ‘hoe’ to refer to Chelsea and NO I really wouldn’t view it any differently. Some people aren’t going to view it as bad because of how the word is commonly used today but others will be because of the original meaning of the word.

Big picture thing here. I just told my sweetie about this, and what is the response: Good, what will be left in the minds of everyone in a few days is that the Clintons were using Chelsea for their own political ends. In other words, it is somewhat the same meme as Bill being put out there to campaign for Hillary as the official attack dog.

I don’t follow the logic. Just where did Chelsea do some sort of attack? I’m not (yet) a Clinton supporter, but the logic here fails me.

To paraphrase Joseph Welch, “Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” Goodbye.

okay I think my computer is phantom reposting. but the comment was aimed @237

And from that, I’m to infer that they’re criminals, wannabe’s, or otherwise engaged in nefarious activity because they got their ‘ride” updated?

I can’t imagine how you got that out of what I wrote. I told you that they are just regular young folks with a funky car. MTV, and the very talented and experienced auto shop people, make them screamingly happy by doing something for them that they couldn’t possibly buy otherwise. It’s a gift given for the sake of entertainment. MTV benefits by entertaining much of the bulk of their audience by doing this. So, to repeat, I have no idea how you concluded what you did from my comment.

Care to expound, Lurking Mod? I don’t understand your comment.

Earlier this week you posted a story about Chelsea, I didn’t read it all so I am sorry if I misjudge you but I thought: Oh my God, are they going to go after the daughter now too, do they think she is fair game? Then a few days later the Huffington Post ran a story about the women on the view talking about Chelsea calling them with a misleading headline, so as to get the hate rolling. Then the next day they posted what the ladies said in response and got the ball rolling again. I know because time and time again I have tried to post a comment that disagrees with the hate stream and they are always deleted, never shown. I guess it might get in the way of the hate fest. Any way I went back a few day and tried to find your post and couldn’t so I am sorry if I have misjudged you.
I am glad Hillary stood up for her daughter, she is not allowed to defend Bill, Bill is not allowed to defend her so I am glad she has drawn the line. Schuster went over the line and it was not inadvertent, he probably thought he was being very clever and you can blame that on the company he keeps.

You guys are sooo yesterday :)

According to my teenagers “pimp out” is currently synonymous with “primp”, or “glitz up”, as in “pimp out my room” or “pimp my ride”.

More seriously, I could care less what words Shuster used, just the meaning. He was being really, really mean. Scrag ‘im.

See #262.

Chelsea is the innocent one here. But in the Clinton’s upping this into a major war against MSNBC (beyond the simple apology) this issue will stick in peoples’ minds (in the same way that Bill’s behavior did). What people will remember is that Chelsea was being asked to campaign for the Clintons, or was doing it voluntarily, and that there was a bru-ha-ha of some sort associated with it.

“Way late to this thread, but fwiw- people have been using the expression “to pimp” in my neck of the woods for a long time, as in “she’s really pimping that project, proposal, etc.,” or, “Don’t you look pimped out,” but the term still has too many connotations to be used in a description of someone during tv news coverage.

It seems David Shuster learned this the hard way. IMO Shuster is in fact paying hard not so much for his one mistake, but those of Matthews, Scar, & other loose-mouthed jerks sitting higher up on the staircase.

Do you realize how many comments and letters they get everyday? All these other instances people have been mentioning over the years, where other people on the network have said things just as bad, never resulted in squat. There was even a blog started a couple of years ago with hundreds of thousands signing a petition to get Tweety Matthews off the air, and not even an apology. You are mistaken.

MSNBC does nothing until they hear this from a Clinton campaign manager:

Then, unbidden, he concluded: “I’ll say this. We’ve done a number of debates on that network…I at this point can’t envision a scenario where we would debate on that network given the comments that were made and have been made.”

http://tpmelectioncentral.talk….._war_w.php

If I offended, I apologize – just seemed like a lively discussion to me.

Anyway, I modestly (ok, I’m lyin’) direct you to comment #18 on the next thread…

I agree with you. After all the analysis, I would have never touched Shuster–not just because he’d be a star on any network but simply because the use of the term was not to cast Chelsea Clinton, a 27 year old adult, in a context where someone with a fur coat, purple suit, and blinged out to the max was slapping her around on the street.

The difficulty has come because the word that means “mod” or some type of “creative use” is the same word that more traditionally meant to put a woman in some type of forced situation to earn money for a pimp via sex.

As was pointed out by cinnamonape, and others the word has not only pervaded culture in this newer context, but it is used because people want to “seem hip” or younger.

The media does this all the time. The ubiquitous valley girl use of the word “like” when it’s never needed–e.g. “I have like this phone” or “my mom like has this thing” or “we were like at the game and he came right by me” is the same kind of phenomenon.

My comment was in reference to comments that the mods have already removed from this thread.

LOL! they suspended schuster???? and are keeping Mathews?????????
there’s some serious HEAD UP THE ASS syndrome over there!
and i bet that decision maker is making such MEGA BUCKS for these idiot decisions. (I hope I didn’t just dog KO!)

ou ou ou
that reads pretty good! maybe i’ll cut and paste it to MSNBC.
lol
s

I think Shuster could have said it differently, but his perception of the incident was spot on!

What incident? That Chelsea went on some TV programs to talk about her mother?

If Shuster is going to call that being “pimped out” then he better be consistent and apply it to every member of every politician that ever appears on TV and are asked about their family, the campaign, their husband, etc. And not only politicians, but any other personage ~from reporters- like Dan Pearl- to scientists, authors, actors/actresses, sports figures, to victims or crime, war and natural disaster.

Oh, I’m decent. And realistic, and entitled to my opinion despite the fact that it may not coincide with the many others here who want to burn another bra in honor of Hillary Clinton. Remove blinders.

Jay, ya need to checkout some of fini’s comments in the Spin thread… ;-)

We’re cool.

Oh, O.K. I’ve been trying to keep it clean. I confess my civility might be somewhat skewed, however. [Turning down the dial a tad bit]

Thank you. I am beginning to see very clearly why Digby had to turn her comments off for a while. All candidates have their children around campaigns, it is almost required, or you get the “kids won’t support their parent” meme like Giuliani (of course there it was true). But all candidates do this and Chelsea has done nothing to deserve all the invective; I just don’t get it. Clinton didn’t get Schuster fired; he was suspended and that was his employer’s decision. I would not have suspended him, the on air clarification of intent/apology would have been sufficient were I MSNBC, but I am not, that is their call. This has just gotten insane.

Wow, what an afternoon.
Feels like the Jerry Springer show.
Sorta.

This ridiculous obsession with words is exactly what’s cost us so many elections. Don’t you see that this thread is as funny to Rush Limbaugh as Sen. Craig is to Jon Stewart? Don’t you see that this is where the whole “liberal as chardonnay-sipping elitist” tag comes from? Where’s you sense of humor? If you’re going to support the Clintons, you’d better go find one.

And did all of you people start coming to FireDogLake AFTER the Scooter Libby trial? Don’t you know who David Shuster is? If you know someone you don’t have to judge him by his slang. Discriminating against people for their dialect is as bad as any other form of discrimination. The English language is an incredibly complex Frankenstein monster and every word has dozens of meanings and nuances. I don’t need to know somebody’s literal definition of “pimped” to know that David Shuster is a stand up guy who’s gone way out on a limb over and over and over to try to save this country from the bastard crooks who have taken it over.

If you apply your snotty language rules to any 10 Jane Hamsher posts, you’ll wind up flaming her all the way to JustOneMinute. I read this blog PRECISELY because of the way that one writer is not afraid to use the English language. I guess I’ll just have to stop reading the comments.

Just saw the comment on the other thread and completely concur. Then again, there’s some question about that last part. :>)

Great. The sympathy vote. How exactly is Obama responsible for our incredibly misogynistic society?

I never said anything about Obama being responsible. What is with you?

Undecided women, and anti-Hillary woman, like the girl friend I was responding about, hear these disgusting remarks about Hillary, and it tends to open their eyes. I know this because I hear it from women all the time.

Basically to understand this you need to see the View clip, when one after the three democratic women on the show announced that Chelsea had called them at home in his “whispery” voice to try to get them to support Hillary. They were unhappy about being pressured that way, and they made it public. They made it clear that she had done something unseemly. The wole was on the web at the time, and should be out there on YouTube.

This is insanity! Bill Clinton did more to hurt Chelsea’s reputation than David Shuster ever could! Furthermore, she was a teenager at the time that he exposed her to the whole Lewinsky affair (and I use that term loosely), blue dress with a sperm stain and all.

Now, on the other hand, she’s a full grown woman. If she or her mother or her father (least of all, her father) don’t like it, they should not use her in their campaigns. Politics is their choice, but if she wants to help them, she should grow up! But I seriously doubt that any of the Clinton’s are responsible for Shuster’s suspension. I suspect it’s more a matter of him being an up-and-comer that is a threat to someone at the channel. This is office politics to the nth degree, and I find it inexcusable.

By the way, if y’all let this happen to Shuster, the only one that could follow the whole Libby trial and report it correctly, one of the few who seems to understand the subtleties of diverse positions, don’t get too use to Rachel. She’ll be the next to have her throat slit for some perceived slight. It’s time to grow up and get into the 21st century, politics and all! And, btw, Obsessed, I’m with you!

Normalization of the term does not justify its use nor deny its effect. Commercial rap culture is deep-rooted in bigotry–misogyny, homophobia, and racism–and as a global juggernaut we have become too desensitized to this.* Besides, Shuster should’ve been canned when he became not only an apologist for Matthews’ misogyny but ridiculing those who were in favor of Matthews being punished.

*I say this as a 26 year-old Latino so don’t think I’m just some ol’ fuddy duddy who doesn’t “get it.”

You’re not being factually accurate in how Florida and Michigan went down:

Obama did not have his name removed from the ballot. He and John Edwards both voluntarily removed their names from the ballot at the request of the DNC and to appease the people conducting the Iowa Caucuses and the New Hampshire Primary.

As for Florida, they could not remove their names from the ballot (under Florida law, only candidates who have dropped out or suspended their campaigns can withdraw from the ballot). And Obama’s ads were part of a national campaign – even the Clinton team admitted that it would be impossible to put ads on cable television without including the Florida market unless you paid for state-by-state and market-by-market ads. And, the chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party (who was one of the people the pledge was made to) agreed that the circumstances did not indicate a breech of the agreement.

My problem is that Clinton is asking for the rules to be changed after the game has started, and in such a way that it benefits her and her alone.

Huh? Goodbye? I don’t believe we’ve ever met.

Chelsea is who I feel badly for. She’s just out there trying to help her mother. She’s had a lifetime of horrible things said about her. Some of the worst stuff has come from Roger Ailes, the head of Fox News, and others of his employ. Yet, Hillary and Bill now accept fundraisers from these same people, and Bill recently taped a Happy Birthday message for his pal Roger Ailes. Seems strange now they want to pick a fight with David Shuster over a stupid comment he made, and I’m glad has was reprimanded for it, like every BigMedia persona should be but never is. I’ve posted links and a quote a few times in this thread, where one of Hillary’s spokesmen threatened to not appear on MSNBC now because of this, yet she would appear on Fox. This is all I’ve been talking about.

Please stop insulting people here.

If you apply your snotty language rules to any 10 Jane Hamsher posts, you’ll wind up flaming her all the way to JustOneMinute. I read this blog PRECISELY because of the way that one writer is not afraid to use the English language. I guess I’ll just have to stop reading the comments.

Apples and oranges. Aside from that, I again find it hard to believe that you are being serious or sincere. You’re miles off target about what is going on in this discussion.

The idea that what Schuster really meant was that the Clintons were decorating Chelsey in a particularly glitzy way is -well- silly.

If you ask him what was on his mind, he’d probably have to say “not much”. The obvious meaning was that the Clintons were USING their daughter in an unsavory and selfish way.

Schuster must know that the network needed to do something and is probably happy he didn’t get sacked.

That’s about all there is to it as far as I can see.

I tend to agree. Plus, providing her with the home phone numbers of the View women and asking Chelsea to call them was in appropriate.

Yeah, exactly. That is about it.

Hellllllooooo Ann in AZ and THANK YOU for stating the issue so accurately and succinctly!!!!

Well this turned into a rap language thread- which I know nothing about- and is followed by the music thread- which I know nothing about. Best find something to do.

Go ride your bike? :)

These women you’re speaking about are now going to choose Clinton over Obama because of our incredibly sexist society. That’s what you’re saying, correct?

I was asking why Obama should be penalized for the misogyny of others. Seems to me people would want to pick the best person for the job in their opinion. Some might feel that Clinton. Some Obama. “I feel sorry for the sexism Hillary has to face” doesn’t seem like a good reason to pick a President.

What if Christine Todd Whitman was the Repub nominee, and she was running against Obama. Would these women vote for her then as well because of all the misogyny she would have to endure? I’m honestly curious and not trying to start arguments.

“I’m not going to say what I think because I don’t want people to feel judged one way or the other”

You’re going to deny me semi-public validation to spare the feelings of 300 people who were just wrong, wrong, wrong? That’s not the Jane Hamsher I know.

“.. was born out by the fact that only one of the 359 comments reflected my own reaction.”

B-b-b-but, I left at least four comments in that thread! What’s up with that?

They are holding him to a different standard because he deviates from the narrative, it was only a matter of time before they found the right issue.

Matthews is a tool, and there’s no reason I can see why Tucker even has a job.

Think of it this way – would you object if these words had been used about Obama’s daughter who is African-American? Puts a whole different light on it, doesn’t it? The entire country would have exploded. Just my opinion.

Delurking to say…..

Jane, here’s my two-cents. Some of the reaction is, I think, generational. I’m a 55-year-old woman and stuff like that makes me cringe….and I think it was a really, really stupid thing to say and I think he did it intentionally. By the generational thing I mean….well it’s like the “C” word. I’ve never used it. Never said it out loud, wouldn’t ever use it in any context nor under any circumstances but that’s just me. I think it’s a tacky word, so I just wouldn’t use it….doesn’t mean I don’t think it about some people though. LOL. Anyway, I also think MSNBC did the right thing, and I now think Hillary and Chelsea should ask them not to suspend him. They need to show a little maturity and class too….and it might just help both sides save a little face. FWIW.

The audience was not kids who “pimp their rides” but mommies and daddies who don’t use the slang. Wrong use of words. Dumd move and being hip is not what the setting calls for.

What does race have to do with it? Do you see what could be read into your question? That black girls/women = prostitutes?

Obama has made a point of not bringing his daughters on the campaign trail (as did Edwards and McCain and Huckabee).

I think the invective shown by both camps, Obama and Hill, should not be aired out here at the Lake… Please take it to DKos or another such site… Support either, but, let’s keep it civil…

Wouldn’t it be nice if THEY discussed issues and left all the crap out of the discussion. So American, so tacky, so classless, so inane, and so not what we need when we need to learn about the candidates.

For profit media is really a disaster.

That’s what I’m thinking. Many of the wingnut talkers have been bemoaning Shuster for a while now. Howard Wolfson knows this and they pounced. Seems blatantly obvious considering how much worse Fox is with the sexism, racism, and every other -ism, yet Hillary’s cool with going on Fox….A LOT.

I think Shuster’s comment was stupid and certainly could be construed as sexist and insulting to a mother and daughter. Without a doubt. That’s not the issue. It’s the hypocrisy of accusing MSNBC as a irresponsible outlet, while at the same time approving of Fox, which by any measure is much worse than MSNBC.

Please stop insulting people here.

Pot… meet kettle.

I don’t need to know somebody’s literal definition of “pimped” to know that David Shuster is a stand up guy who’s gone way out on a limb over and over and over to try to save this country from the bastard crooks who have taken it over.

If you apply your snotty language rules to any 10 Jane Hamsher posts, you’ll wind up flaming her all the way to JustOneMinute. I read this blog PRECISELY because of the way that one writer is not afraid to use the English language. I guess I’ll just have to stop reading the comments.

I have no quarrel with the notion that Tweety deserves to be fired or that Shuster’s offenses are less. And being a free speech sort, I DO TRY TO PUT THINKS IN CONTEXT AND SHUN BEING OVERLY pc.

However …

The proper context matters. On MTV or a comedy show, literary license is deservedly overbroad. On a mainstream news network, however, with an audience of 18 to 80, it’s to be expected that one does not resort to insider talk, slang or language you wouldn’t use in a roomful of elderly aunts.

What is lost by foregoing such usage? Nada. What is lost by using it? Some of your audience.

It’s not performance art. It’s a news broadcast. In that context, Shuster’s comment was a bad gaffe at minimum and deserves rebuke. and hillary didn’t start the viewer rejection of the commentary. I’ve read several blogs, like Shakesville, that spoke out hours before the Clinton campaign did.

And trust me, this election wont be won or lost because somebody thinks liberals overreacted to a newsman, or that this is a pointy-headed academic response. There are serious issues people will vote on. And both misogyny and racism will be on the minds of millions as some of those serious issues.

You can be dismissive but I do not agree with your points. Had he used a term like ‘chick’ an overreaction would be too PC but ‘pimping out her daughter’ raises too many red flags to too many to be disregarde. Shuster was out of line and deserved to get called on it, imo.

Exactly. This morning on Moanin’ Schmoe, Shuster went off on Willard’s excuse for cutting out of the race. You know, Mittens wanted to get out of the way of McSaint so Batshit Crazy John could take down the obvious jihadist sympathizers Clinton and Obama. Absolute horseshit excuse! I was shocked how animated Shuster was in calling BS. At the time, I didn’t know anything about the Chelsea Clinton viasco. I figure, now, he was going all in cuz he had nothing else to lose at that point. LOL!

No, I did not mean that. Don’t put words in my mouth. What I meant was that I believe that people are more careful about saying things that are belittling to African-Americans than they are otherwise. I would be irritated at this being said about anyone. Don’t like being called a racist in any way.

I can’t believe that so many people are unoffended simply because it involved Hillary. How would you feel if some gasbag made the same comment about YOUR mother, or YOUR wife, or YOUR daughter, or YOUR sister? Most particularly, what kind of uproar do you think would have ensued if this comment had been made about Michelle Obama? I suspect that all hell would have broke loose. We would be hearing about racism far and wide! People’s heads would roll! But when it’s about Hillary or sexism, so much of the Left just yawns. This whole campaign has been an eye-opener for me. I see that so much of what is wrong with the world isn’t just on the Right, but is right here in our back yard as well.

OK. If you’d like to show me where I insulted another commenter, as the person who I was responding did to me by saying I was indecent, I’m all eyes.

I guess you’re not gonna give a response to my honest question I had asked earlier then it seems like. Oh well, gotta run anyhow…

It’s not performance art. It’s a news broadcast.

I may not be the former, but I know for a fact, it’s not the latter.

The undecided women I talk to are truly torn between the two candidates. Seeing Hillary flamed just pisses them off. Sorry, but that is the way it is.

Can anyone tell me if the Amy Sullivan that’s on Hardball right now is the Amy Sullivan everyone (and I use that term loosely; it doesn’t appear to apply here anymore) here has been wanting to see on TV as a pundit? I don’t think it is, but it has me confused.

EXACTLY… you didn’t mean it but it could be construed that way because you didn’t say just say Obama’s daughter, you said

Think of it this way – would you object if these words had been used about Obama’s daughter who is African-American? Puts a whole different light on it, doesn’t it? The entire country would have exploded. Just my opinion.
reply

BTW, I wasn’t calling you a racist. I just wanted to call attention to that point

Still to Twain:
I see the what you were trying to do but it doesn’t quite work because that would mean someone making a disparaging remark due to her skin color not her gender. See what I mean?

Digby, as always, has a superb post on this subject, Here We Go Again. http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

I found the following excerpt very revealing:

Here was the reaction from one of Matthews’ colleagues:

SHUSTER: Just one comment about Chris Matthews. I’ve worked with him for five and a half years. I’ve been alongside him, on camera, off, good times and bad. Nobody is more gracious and has a bigger heart, and has contributed more in a positive way to our political discourse than Chris Matthews.

SCARBOROUGH: Now, let me say, let me say –

SHUSTER: And to see him have to go through this is absolutely infuriating, to see the way these groups used him for pure political gain is absolutely infuriating.

I will say again, Shuster offended, but put it in context and degree. When you consider how much her own father offended her and her mother, Shuster’s offense pales in comparison. None of you Clinton supporters want to discuss the painful offenses committed against the two female Clintons by the one male Clinton. The double standards afforded the Clintons from a segment of the female supporters of Senator Clinton dismays me.

As I said, people know today that to make a racist remark is NOT okay in any form, but it’s still okay to make a sexist remark. That’s my point. And by the way, I believe that when all the barriers are down for African-Americans and we have had an African-American president, it will still be considered okay to make sexist remarks. I have many times objected to a sexist remark and been told that I just don’t have a sense of humor. I am sick of it. Apparently it will always be okay to be sexist regardless of color.

If Shuster said “Is Hillary using her daughter to get votes” that is just a dumbass thing to say, especially when he interrupted a guest to say it. It was a hit on Hillary, thrue Chelsea and I believe he should be suspended for it. If I had ever heard him say the same for Bush, Obama, etc. maybe by this time I’d be used to the term.

But why, oh why, did he interrupt a giuest to say “Is Hillary pimping her daughter out?”

Again, please consider the term if used thusly:

“Obama again pimped out Michelle by having her campaign for him.”

I must be getting into old fart territory, but I think the headline about the mayor pimping for a union demeaned not only His Honor and the union members, but the very political relationship involved. Feels dirty.

To say that a mother pimped out her daughter? If the kid is underage, that’s child abuse. That’s sexual deviancy.

Now, one part of the mind says, oh, he didn’t mean that. The other part absorbs the slander–as it was meant to be absorbed.

Breck Girl? A woman had to tell Al Gore how to be an alpha male? C’mon, wordsmiths may not be aware of every possible interpretation of their words, but they have a pretty good handle on the connotations.

The “claws” things was iffy–but given the tenor of other recent comments it was not meant admiringly. The “pimping out” was out and out deliberate, at all levels.

And another thing, Schuster isn’t a kid in high school where pimping may be a popular term.

That is not what I was saying. I’m not arguing the validity of the fact that we live in a sexist society and that it is in fact more socially acceptable to be sexist but to compare racism and sexism doesn’t work because even if you are black, half the black population is female.
I look forward to when ALL barriers are down but I’m going to call out anyone that pulls race into an argument to make a comparison to sexism. Why? Because women come in different colors and for many not only are they oppressed because of their gender but also because of their color.

agreed

thanks, jane. my opinion, too. yucky, but msnbc is
not pbs. there is so much crap in the vernacular
these days, and i abhor the girl as “bitch” or “whore”
stuff.
sorry it had to happen to my plame guy.
shuster is not a hi schooler and he got his just
desserts with this…, but those of us with
kids, do talk really stupid. i know i do.
my daughter says that when i say fuck, i enunciate it too much.
wannabe, me.

I go to a lot of meetings every week, for the last 4 1/2 years, with developers, builders, construction workers, Home Owner Associations, board members and such. I have never heard anyone in business use the “pimping term”.

new to thread, but:

#1 “Temper, Temper, Temper”! Dr James Dobson is quoted as saying he would never vote for McCain, because when McCain is angry, he uses “vile, foul language”.

May I just briefly say – Fuck Dr. James Dobson!!

Nope.

Send him a collection of sex toys inscribed with biblical sayings: throwing them out would be blasphemous.

He’d dwindle away from the sin of lust.

In fact, if a developer’s daughter was in the room and I said “So, you have your daughter pimping for you” I doubt they would be handing me any checks at the end of the meeting.

FWIW, KO just apologized to the Clintons for Schuster’s remark and proclaimed that it was insulting and wholly inappropriate.

Thought experiment: Would your response to the comments be different if they had come from Matthews? Limbaugh?

300 comments in, I doubt I’ll be adding anything, but what the hell:

I didn’t vote in the poll, but I don’t think the claws comment was minor, but it wasn’t nothing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this was a statement rather than off the cuff. So, I have to believe that it was wordsmithed and the campaign was aware of the “catfight” edge to the word.

The pimped comment: Shuster was speaking extemporaneously and pimped out is certainly a common part of the vernacular. But anybody who lives by his words shouldn’t be tossing the term around lightly and when referring to young women in particular. I find it over the top largely because she’s doing nothing different than any other adult child of a campaigning pol (this topic came up yesterday in discussions of whether Chelsea was fair game in Jane’s post on Chelsea’s Mills college talk).

Actually it was off the cuff. A member posted the video of the speech in the Claws thread.

Thanks. I stand corrected.

“… I have to believe he’s largely paying for the sins of Matthews.”

I agree — and that is exactly what I thought, when I heard. As for the word “pimp” … it refers not to a woman, but a man (usually). And to me, “prostitute” is just another occupation. Maybe I live too close to Nevada.

Thought experiment: Would your response to the comments be different if they had come from Matthews? Limbaugh?

While I would rejoice at the demise of Limbaugh in an “ends justify the means” sort of way, the fact remains that it makes me nauseous when ANYONE is raked over the coals for using any kind of slang. This holier-than-thou language police crap rubs me in the wrongest way. You guys sound like a bunch of McCarthyists – and I ain’t talkin’ about Eugene. This whole language thing made me so angry at liberals that I had completely dropped out in disgust by the 2000 election. It took Bush & Rove shredding the constitution, something which DOES deserve to be taken literally, to wake me up.

Think about it – do you want to change this country or do you want to try to teach everyone to linguistically correct and wind up with George W. Bush for all your trouble?

This is no joke folks – the holier-than-thou attitude being displayed here is deeply offensive to the majority of the swing voters that decide every election. It’s time to get heavy on the issues and lighten up on the prudishness.

Better experiment–look back and compare–

Did they ever say it about any of the Cheney daughters–who actually rely on their father’s position for their jobs, and campaigned officially all the time for them?

Did they ever say it about Jenna and Tonic?

Did they ever say it about the Romney kids?

Did they say it when McCain’s daughter (the one they slimed him about in 2000) was campaigning for him?

Did they say it when Cate Edwards was out campaigning?

…

FWIW, KO just apologized to the Clintons for Schuster’s remark and proclaimed that it was insulting and wholly inappropriate.

FWIW, I think KO should start now apologizing for his “Special Comments” which I’m sure grievously offended the current occupants of the WH and their entire following. Then the current occupants of the WH should start apologizing for being responsible for the swiftboating of Kerry, of Max Cleland, even of John McCain, et al. Then Hillary could start apologizing for the example she set for little girls, including her own daughter, by enabling her husband’s behavior for low those many years before he finally got caught with irrefutable proof of his infidelity. But of course, the example she meant to set was to “Stand by your man!” Then her husband can apologize for being a womanizer for so many years of his married life. By the time all of the apologizing is done, it will be time for the general election. The Clinton’s may find that they regret making such a big deal out of this, because I, for one, will not forget it.

What Bill and Hillary Clinton did in the highest office of the land, and what they drug the country through, was far more egregious than the slip of the tongue done by David Shuster. Yet Bill didn’t even get one day off on suspension for his arguably immoral behavior as head of state, impeachment notwithstanding. The reason, all things considered, I think was because it was a venial sin within the great scheme of things. BTW, although I’m not a particular Hillary fan, I’m not particularly against her. I thought she ran a really good race, and thought long and hard about who to vote for because she ran such a good race. And I am a big fan of Bill Clinton and his presidency. I thought “he done good.” That doesn’t mean I had my eyes closed or that I was like the three monkeys, “See No Evil,” “Hear No Evil,” and “Speak No Evil.” Guess I’ll have to quit being so broadminded.

Just sec to stop by again, but apparently Hillary thinks it’s OK to appear on a network that employs traitors to America that “out” CIA agents, namely Karl Rove who has just started as a Fox “Contributer” (he’s been a Fox contributor for 8 years at least!) Not to mention the 10+ years they’ve been spewing much worse stuff than Shuster just did.

But David Shuster and Tweety Matthews…no way!

The differences are so extreme, does it not make you question Team Clinton’s motives to refuse appearing on MSNBC?

Best comment on the thread. I agree with you.

This is no joke folks – the holier-than-thou attitude being displayed here is deeply offensive to the majority of the swing voters that decide every election. It’s time to get heavy on the issues and lighten up on the prudishness.

I feel so enlightened now. The majority of swing voters will vote for McCain because he thinks there’s nothing wrong with Chelsea Clinton being pimped out.

Somebody tell Gallup what the issue is that they should be polling about.

David Schuster has delivered a long series of well-researched, pithy, insightful, erudite essays on political topics on Hardball and as a substitute host. I laud and congratulate him for publishing them to the world.

Yes, David recently erred in what he said about Chelsea.

However, Schuster’s character should not be impugned for this uncharacteristic mistake.

Chris Matthews makes offensive comments on Hardball every week.

NBC News President Steve Capus should reinstate David Schuster as a reporter forthwith.

Right on. I’ve never understood this ho-hum attitude about a President getting a bj from an intern in the White House, and lies about it under oath. That’s about the most sexist thing I can imagine. To do this when you have a teenaged daughter and wife living in the public eye is inexcusable. Isn’t it hard enough already for a woman in our sexist society, and then he does this to his wife.

Yet always there’s a loud chorus of “I don’t care what someone does in their personal life” and so on, totally ignoring the ramifications of his actions in the first place, for his family, the DemocratIC Party as a whole, and for America.

Chris Mathews faux pas are not the issue here. Shuster’s are.

Mathews should be retired as well. He’s a creep of the highest order. And he spits when he talks.. very unpleasant regardless of what he says.

If “pimped out” doesn’t have a negative connotation, what was Shuster’s point?

He’s taken his medicine. Let’s get off his case.

Shuster is, along with Rachel Maddow, the best and brightest on cable news. Let’s not mess things up for him. We need him.

Dictionaries are published and updated every year.

Absolutely, and they are modified to reflect accepted usage patterns for print and speech, a ‘language barometer’ if you will. Here is the definition of the verb tense according to Merriam-Webster Online

intransitive verb: to work as a pimp

transitive verb: to make use of often dishonorably for one’s own gain or benefit

The transitive form seems to perfectly fit the context of the broadcast, and matches what I initially thought was the intent.

Not a good choice of words.

Where I come from, the term is to “turn out.”

As in: “The Clinton campaign has turned Chelsey out for her mom.”

Jane, I completely agree that Shuster’s suspension was in response to the sins of Chris Matthews. And I also agree that although an unfortuante phrase, to my ears it wasn’t what it sounded like. Obviously, Shuster was not comparing Chelsea to a prostitute. If he had said “using her” instead of “pimped out”, there would be no argument.

What really pisses me off however is that even after Shuster has apologized and been suspended, the Clinton campaign has threatened not to participate in any MSNBC sponsored debates.

If Hillary Clinton doesn’t want to participate in the debates, then fine. We’re done with it. They won’t participate on MSNBC, but they’re ready to debate on Fox News? Are they insane?

Just last week, Clinton was begging for a chance at weekly debates as her funds were running low and the contests would provide free exposure, but now that she’s gotten an influx of internet cash after revealing that she has signed a $5 million personal check to keep her campaign going, NOW the campaign is threatening MSNBC? Really?!

I’m sick of hearing “ready to lead on day one,” and “35 years of experience,” so unless you have a new talking point, I think I’ve heard your entire schtick multiple times. I don’t need to hear it another five times before March 4th.

So does that make KO a Clintonista now? :)

Excuse me kdh22, but are you saying it is OK for Shuster to say whatever he wants about Hillary and her daughter because Bill did something wrong? What rock did you crawl out from under?

So if your father cheated on your mother I could make crude comments about you with impunity? You’d think it was just peachy? Where were you raised? I can’t imagine what your parents must have taught you growing up to allow you to think that this behavior is acceptable.

There is no context or degree that make it acceptable for Shuster to say that Hillary Clinton is pimping out her daughter. He called a sitting senator, a former first lady and a presidential candidate a pimp and her daughter a whore on NATIONAL TV.

Why is it “unseemly” for Chelsea to campaign for her mother? Am I being pimped out when I make calls on Hillary’s behalf?

Next thing you’ll be saying it is ok to slap around an abused child a little, because someone else has already beat them up. Is it also OK to berate rape victims because it isn’t as bad as what the rapist did? Where does this line of “logic” end?

It is wrong. Plain and simple. You are wrong. Plain and simple. If you can’t see it, STFU.

kdh223 said:

I will say again, Shuster offended, but put it in context and degree. When you consider how much her own father offended her and her mother, Shuster’s offense pales in comparison. None of you Clinton supporters want to discuss the painful offenses committed against the two female Clintons by the one male Clinton. The double standards afforded the Clintons from a segment of the female supporters of Senator Clinton dismays me.

Re: “And on that awkward segue, I’ll bring up the latest contretemps — comments made by David Shuster to the effect that Chelsea Clinton was being “pimped out” by the campaign. It may surprise everyone but I actually wasn’t bothered by them.”

Me either, good grief. Street lingo to describe that she was being “used” (which she was), nothing more, get over it.

I’m not understanding how Shuster was using the word pimping as in promoting. If pimping can mean sending someone out to engage in prostitution for one’s profit and it can mean promoting, then it seems to me that Shuster was using it in the first way. Why would Hillary be “promoting” Chelsea? Chelsea is obviously campaigning for her mother and her actions benefit her mother and not Chelsea. I don’t see how anyone can believe that Shuster was saying that Hillary was promoting Chelsea. He was obviously saying that Hillary was using Chelsea for HRS’s benefit. And he tied that to prostitution. Chelsea going out and prostituting herself for her mother’s benefit. He not only said that HRC is a pimp, he called Chelsea a whore and the insinuation is that anyone campaigning for HRC is a whore.

You don’t think misogynists walk around with a label on their chests that says “I am a misogynist,” do you? No, they hide it unless they are in company of other misogynists or until they get so worked up over a powerful woman that it slips out.

What kind of a man would never say that a woman Presidential candidate pimps her daughter?

Sorry about the typos. You can tell I’m upset about not only Shuster calling HRC a pimp and Chelsea a whore, but the fact that so many people want to believe that he was saying that HRC was promoting her daughter. In the context, that doesn’t even begin to make sense to me.

Thank you!

I am offended every day by Chris Matthews; he makes nasty comments about Clinton every day. He also praises McCain in an adolescent manner that makes me sick. I was also surprised last night to see that Jon Stewart has had McCain 10 times on his show. Weird. Then I read Morning Joe’s comments, also sexist to his partner, who is generally more capable than he is. Yes, Shuster used poor judgment in supporting Matthews and in attacking Chelsea. What it comes down to is that MSNBC has tolerated a lot of crappy comments for months. I’m glad Hillary said she won’t debate there. I hope she and Obama won’t debate on FOX. It’s time for MSM to clean up its act. And I could say a lot about how disgusting Tucker is. He hates women and you hear it every time he’s on the air. Keith is a rarity, and maintains his dignity most of the time.

Adding my two cents, the complete sentence was

But doesn’t it seem like Chelsea’s sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?”

to my mind saying “Weird sort of way” clearly telegraphs the intention with which Shuster said it.

Obsessed, you said:

“This is the most pissed off I’ve been since the Plame saga. Shuster was one of ours and Hillary gets him fired for saying “pimped”? PIMPED? Everyone says that – “pimp mobile” “pimp daddy” “pimping me out” – it’s just a funny word that people use. This is Foley-Craig level hypocrisy – and as bad as all that South Carolina race-baiting.

And this sudden prudishness from the team that has no problems with squirting semen all over the oval office rug? GIVE ME A BREAK. You can’t have it both ways. Here’s the only Hillary number that still works: 703-469-2008. I told them to get Shuster his job back by Monday or I’m out.”

Like you ever were or ever would be “in.” I’m sure that if the Clinton team, whom you called and threatened, had read that post would have said “How can we miss you when you won’t go away?”

squirting semen?

Lovely.

Well, at least you’re moving to Europe. I hope things go better there for you and you can calm down and relax a bit.

I don’t know about snotty language rules, obsessed. I use the f-word frequently. But I wouldn’t suggest on national tv that a female presidential candidate is pimping her daughter out “in some weird kind of way.” I can’t see Jane Hamsher doing that either and I think your comparison of Jane’s use of language to this statement is rather demeaning to Jane.

A lot of people do a lot of good things and some bad things. I am beginning to see that due to the fact that Shuster was, as you say, “with FDL all the way” during the Libby fiasco, some people think it is ok for him to accuse HRC of pimping out her daughter “in some weird kind of way.” I don’t think it is. I think it was ugly and I think he deserved to be suspended for it. Maybe he will learn his lesson and go on to even greater things than he has accomplished in the past. I hope so. But I am absolutely on board with sending a strong message to the talking meat-heads in the MSN that it is not alright to speak such filth on the airwaves.

There it is.

This isn’t about Bill Clinton’s mistakes.

As for Obsessed claiming that there is nothing “that can offend Chelsea Clinton after what she’s been through” and using that to justify some talking meat-head calling her a whore and her mother a pimp –in what kind of mind does thinking like that take hold?

why don’t you check out this link at Media Matters [http://mediamatters.org/items/200802080011?f=h_top]. It will explain a lot of things about the entire crew at MSNBC, especially about Schuster [who I used to enjoy myself until recently].

I couldn’t have phrased it better.

What in hell is going on with MSNBC?
Within the past week, Crooks&Liars showed a clip of Joe Scarborough in full, flat-out Global Denial Mode (scoffing at the very idea that furry little baby polar bears might not have enough ice). Evidently, Scarborough can ridicule Global Warming (and by extension, those of us who actually believe it is a threat); yet he stays on the air.
Tweety continues to interrupt guests, remains incredibly derisive about the Clintons; yet he stays on the air.
Meanwhile, David Shuster makes one dumb comment — and he’s suspended on his first offense?! Wow.

Scarborough: Global Warming is a Silly Hoax. Ha, ha, ha, ha… Golly, Joe is such a cutup…
Tweety: The Clintons are just toooo ambitious and every breath they take is 100% politically motivated, cause Chris can read their minds.. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…. Golly, Twetty is such a cutup.
Shuster: synthesized the Plame investigation, delivered the best teevee reporting of the Libby Trial, and condenses and explains complex incidents. Hmmmm… sounds expendible. Definitely.

Shuster’s remark was ill-considered, but one mistake is not the same thing as a pattern of infractions.
Meanwhile, if you want to know what a hilarious thigh-slapper that whole Global Warming meme is, by all means tune in to Scarborough.

Would MSNBC cut Shuster a little more slack if he ridiculed Global Warming and constantly interrupted guests?
Just askin’.

media matters had a piece last month about Shuster’s mocking impersonation of Joy Behar, berating her for daring to question Tweety’s comments about Hillary

I do believe what he said about Chelsea being pimped was totally wrong, the apology necessary and the suspension warranted. As for Matthews etc., his comments have been directed at Hillary and I don’t recall her having made complaints. She has stood there and taken everything the media has thrown her way and she is still standing there taking it no matter what. However, she has every right to complain and be furious as to the comments about her daughter. She has shown herself willing to take the negativity to her from both MSNBC and CNN but “a duaghter” being slammed is totally different.

Shuster was supended because the Hillary camp called and told them Hillary wouldn’t debate on MSNBC. Convenient. She’s losing anyway. She got some good press before some primaries. Pity seems to get her votes. And I agree with Jane when she says that Shuster is “paying for the sins of Matthews.” It’s seems to be a difference in the generational use of language.

From Josh Marshall, and I think it pretty much says everything…..

TPM Reader VH checks in …

I am not a Hillary supporter – I voted for Obama. But, I applaud the response of the Clinton campaign for the insulting remark about Chelsea and Hillary. It is extremely important for both Democratic candidates to make the networks aware right now that treating either of them as Bill Clinton was treated will be done with severe consequences. If that means every single network finds itself on the outside looking in, then so be it.
Bush made sure the networks, and news media in general, knew that any disrespectful treatment of him like Bill Clinton was subjected to was going to bring results they would find very uncomfortable. That
worked – of course in part it worked because the networks and media in general supported Bust no matter what he did. But, even if they don’t support the next Democratic president we can’t allow him or her
to be treated with the dripping contempt that Bill Clinton faced. This episode was the first shot in that “war”.

–Josh Marshall

the term probably didn’t strike others as being as inert as it did me

So in general, although I’m a touch old fashioned and still find it in poor taste, I have trained myself not to clutch my pearls at the use of the word “pimp” in general. But it’s one thing to “pimp a union” or “pimp an economic package”; to me, the phrase loses its inertness when the object of the verb is a young woman.

David Shuster isn’t Don Imus…he misspoke and apologized. MSNBC and the Clintons should both let it go.

You are entitled to berate me for my position if you like. Your words and opinion have no effect on me whatsoever. I do HOPE I’ve given you an adequate outlet for your frustration. I HOPE you feel better soon.

Sorry Jane but this time I see it for what it is – the watercooler talk about Hillary Clinton at MSNBC has probably gotten so pervasive that they all feel free to anything thats gotten a yuck yuck in the “newsroom”. The fact that he added that it all seemed “unseamly” made it stick out all the more. Just imagine if he had said that Obama was pimping out Michelle, the studios would be on fire right now. I’d had it with MSNBC awhile ago anyway.

“Pimping” in this context is a nasty word that should never be used by a news reporter to refer to anyone. There are different standards of discourse for different occasions– the entire world is not a frat party.

I’m glad Hillary is pushing back against this stuff. Gore and Kerry let the media dump all over them, and look where it got them. She’s a fighter, not a doormat, and I appreciate it.

I was totally offended about what Shuster said. It was inappropriate and insulting to a young woman just participating in the political process for her mother.

I thought the suspension was a little overboard but he was reaching hundreds of thousands of people putting the image of ‘whore’ in their minds about Chelsea. Words matter and images take a long time to fade.

David Shuster is 41. A little old to make this a difference in the generational use of language, I’d say. Think he would use this term in a memo to his supervisor, or in a public speech to a roomful of journalism students, or in a letter to his mother?

You know for me the term “Pimped out” may not be so bad. I would look more at the Attitude behind it that was revealed more in Schusters response to e-mails concerning the statement. Schuster was upset becasue Chelsea wouldn’t or won’t give interviews to the press. WHy would Schuster assign this demeaning word to someone who is just supporting 1) Her family 2) Her mother 3) Her political party. If shes a pimp we all are pimps…and last time I checked I think its OK to work for a cause and not give interviews about it!

Wha?

The first shot in this media “war” was Obama over a year ago. He froze out Fox after they kept running the false “madrassa” stories over and over, and he also mentioned their history of being loose with the truth. He and Edwards were first to refuse a Fox debate several months later, and just recently did an interview on Pox again, which I wish he wouldn’t have. Bill O’Loofah tried to bully his way into a interview with Barack, and Obama gave him the cold shoulder.

Obama has been leading on the issue of irresponsible reporting, and he’s been doing it to by far the worst of the worst BigMedia outlet, Pox Newz. Hillary has been appearing on Pox A LOT all this time, and even goaded Obama to appear in a Fox debate recently. Obama refused again, and now ‘lo and behold, Team Clinton is all worked up about David Shuster and MSNBC?!?!

Incredibly stupid comment and line of questioning by Shuster, and Matthews has been doing that for years. What these guys did is child’s play considering the vile things Pox Newz and especially their boss, Roger Ailes have been doing to the Clintons including Chelsea FOR YEARS!

For Hillary to finally put her foot down to Shuster and MSNBC, right after Obama agreed to a debate on MSNBC and not Pox, is almost laughable. That’s the issue. Not whether Shuster’s comments were out of line, since they clearly were. Give credit where credit is due…Obama has been leading on this issue. Hillary is following his lead.

(BTW, Josh didn’t say that…a commenter did, but you made it look like those were Josh’s words)

dailyKos is one of the worst offenders. I have unmarked it from my favorites file because of the adolescent reviling of Hillary and worship of Obama.

I have stayed away too from Daily Kos for awhile. Does little good to complain to MSNBC. I have been watching “Holmes on Homes” on the DIY channel every night and my wife used to complain when I watched Tucker/Tweedy.

I have been sending money to Clinton over this Shuster thing getting other ladies at work to do the same. Small amounts but its going to be steady each pay period. I went to caucus for her tuesday.

Claws remind me of a feline attribute, however, the inference is up for interpretation, which can only be subjective. On the other hand it does hark back to the response I felt when “Arnie” used the statement “sissy girls”….Probably, there are better word choices for the sake of rhetoric.

Actually, he posted it here exactly as it appeared on Josh Marshall’s TPM. The initials of the original poster were at the top of the copy/paste to FDL. When Josh Marshall posts an email from a reader, that’s how he always does it.