1?

hi siun

*no dive tonight*

strapping in with 5 pt harness and making sure my nomex/kevlar lined modsuit is still within its warranty period

Thanks, Christina. It’s great that folks are taking the time to look into this issue in a fair way now so there won’t be surprises later on.

Cool picture of Barry!

Siun, thank you for this great post.

*waving to Suz and lol-ing*

Can’t be too prepared, eh? Bonne Soir, Ma Cheri!

Magic Pie Chart!
Colors and all.

Thank you Jane for giving us a place to dig in!

Nice post, Siun! This is good information to have.

speaking of digg…

(I’m afraid to watch, Suzanne!)

These are the people for which that one diary at dKos is flaming everyone here?

(BTW, there appeared to be an immigration raid going on this evening at a warehouse across the street from Busch Van Nuys. Guys in black tees labelled ’Homeland Security’, traffic control all over - glad I was on the passing train: people just driving by were going to be late because of the mess. I feel sorry for those they undoubtedly are deporting for not having Complete Up-to-Date Papers on their person. I wonder when they’ll extend that to the rest of us.)

speaking of digg…

I’m trying to submit it now — have never been successful at submitting before, only “digging”

Thanks Prof … it seemed important to look at what they really do - and I was mighty impressed. The cases listed on their web site are quite a selection of good actions - a lot of big class actions on sex discrimination and such.

PJ..I wonder if it was another ‘Falcon’ raid. I’m expecting to see a lot of minority members jailed before the November election. I mean, really, there’s only so many that can be purged without it becoming obvious.

Many thanks to you Siun. I really appreciate your post.

This is BS…!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....829/451754

These are the people for which that one diary at dKos is flaming everyone here?

No, that diary properly criticized yesterday’s FDL article, which while making some good points very unfairly left out the details about this law firm.

B-b-but…The dive is why I stay up this late.
G’night.

Thanks for this post. Good information here. I hope FDL continues to offer free and open, and fair, discussion of both candidates. Providing sources of info, background and context is important for upcoming battle in the general election, no matter which candidate is nominated, and this post is a great example of that.

Of course, I am a big fan of LDP too, so, both pieces were useful. But this one provides more background and context, and I think should that element of it should be a model for FDL.

Thanks Martha … I knew their rep here was not bad but wanted to take a closer look. I’ve searched every reference I could find - and would love any I didn’t (I did have to actually work today too! ;->

I don’t come here for the splash.
I come here for the heart.

There was also a massive sweep of purported mob figures today.

I get the feeling that this is the beginning of the largescale arrests.

The Feds have a lot of nice new tools in their dictators toolbox that they can start using against the hoi polloi.

-G

Siun, I appreciate your work and research and the opporunity to review all possible info pertinent to both of the Dem candidates.

Regarding the Miner firm: how can one know how representative the cases Miner chose to highlight on their websie may be of the firm’s total volume of work?

Is there a way to search legal records/court records in Chicago/environs for ALL filings/motions (whatever the legal words may be) - all of the Miner attorneys direct appearances/ written submissions in legal proceedings?

Or - in all seriousness - given the relevance to Barack’s campaign and questions reaised by his association with Rezko - would Miner make their record of billable hours public? (if that’s OK with legal ethics, that is?).

Otherwise…how can one be certain that the worrk Miner chose to highlight on their own website is actaully representative of the scope of the firm’s activities?

uh, have you really thought that comment through CT? Cause really, it’s sorta borderline offensive.

edit- CTuttle @5, not @7

Obama as Harold and the GOP as the Vrdolyak 29, Trent Lott can be Fast Eddie V, and Bush can be slow Eddie B, ust like the old Tribune cartoons.

I was referring to the DKOS diary, Ma’am!

I read that. The Gambino family, a lot of others. Interesting times we live in, no?

sorry ust should bu just

The whole Rezco thing needs to be analyzed. Let’s not freak out before the facts are clear. Has anyone here seen LHP screw up? I haven’t.

Yeah. looks like a pretty impressive employment/civil rights/labor law practice. Not topo shabby. Not that I’d know, but I don’t tinbk everybody who graduates from top law schools (even law review types) go on to white shoe firms.

I’m stayin’ outta this.

Good.

vg, i thought barry was a nickname for barack - is it not? is there some other negative use of the word barry?

uh, have you really thought that comment through CT? Cause really, it’s sorta borderline offensive.

edit- CTuttle @5, not @7

wise man.

I sided with LHP in the thread, altho, I didn’t agree with all that was written, but, I wouldn’t call it swift boating by any stretch of the imagination…

Barack used Barry when he was in school

Me neither. I love his stuff. But the DKos reply was good, too. No? I’ll let those who know more about it hash it out and thenI’ll try to figure it out. My guess is no legs here.

Kirk … The Chicago Tribune got permission to review all court appearances, filings and I believe also examined billing records.

This firm is not sleazy - take a look on their site at who they work with and for. They do list for each practice the names of the key attorney’s who handle that practice area and the development section has three listed who also work in other areas. The primary focus and the main activities of the partners are in areas like worker’s rights class action suits.

Actually he referred to himself as Barry while he was attending Punahou School, the same one Michelle Wie attended…

((Loo Hoo))
Heart!
(This isn’t kindergarten.)

That’s a fun fact. Thanks!

Okay, CT and Suz- I stand corrected, and rightly so. My bad, and my ignorance, and my leaping to the wrong conclusion. My apologies!

(exhaling) thank you

Otherwise…how can one be certain that the worrk Miner chose to highlight on their own website is actaully representative of the scope of the firm’s activities?

One of the points made in the (IMHO very poor) FDL article yesterday was the implication that there was no good reason for Obama to go to that law firm *other* than ties to Rezko. But even if the list on their website is partial, it gives a commonsense reason why.

So now turning it around as you do here is missing the point. And unfair. Does someone have to prove to you that the law firm’s work was 100% wholly altruistic? What happened to assumed innocence?

Even if that list is partial, it destroys one of the implications from yesterday’s article.

Julie Myers loves some blackface.

Another case of a Whitehouse legacy hire who was dishonest during her confirmation hearings.

-G

P.S. The US embassy in the UK has denied Amy Winehouse a visa…no, no, no.

(Personal to Suz, still waiting for the Digg submit — all I have in another tab is “we’re digging through your submission, thanks for waiting…)

I’m impressed by it.

Work? You too? It just gets in the way…

The more global issue that crystalized in my little brain last night was this: are we who work in the corporate world responsible/culpable if people we worked with or for become crooks? If we weren’t in politics, I think the answer would be “are you daft”? But, both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have situations that have (and will) follow them and be used against them, rightly or wrongly. But it’s really about context for both of them. To me we have to be very careful about throwing stones–on both sides–in relation to this question.

No harm done, VG! *g*

let me see what i can do LL

Given that “white shoe” firms are for the privileged, not for community oriented work or regular folks, I don’t see why his having chosen to work at a civil rights firm is presented as a negative …

it’s mighty puzzling to me since the firm is doing precisely the work we wish more lawyers did … and they win their cases.

Thanks Siun, this needed saying. FWIW, Judson Miner was a founder or the founder and first President of the Chicago Council of Lawyers, the “more progressive” bar association.

Do we have any evidence that Obama took cash to do something illegal? Is Fitz gunning for Obama or is this hopeful spin from the GOP and or Hilary?
Modo has always hinted at something I bet she is gossiping again with the Right. I wonder what the latest GOP gossip smear about Obama is, I stopped paying attention after the madrassa story.
Although Modo gushing about Obama in a swimsuit was funny.

Thanks Siun
I didnt know much about his law experience.
He didnt go for the money

tis dugg LL

Ooh, TRex will be distraught… ;-)

what he said.

i wanna hear further from LHP on this. But i don’t know that “sleazy” was the best word to describe the firm. I don’t think you need to read every single filing made by a firm to be able to tell whether it is or isn’t sleazy.

CT- thanks for understanding! I guess I am a little overwrought. At this rate, I wonder if I’ll manage to remain sane until Nov. Or relatively sane. I’ll try not to hyperventilate too often in public.

Suz, thank you! Don’t know why I never seem to be able to submit…but I definitely dugg this one.

So good. Thanks, Martha.

The more global issue that crystalized in my little brain last night was this: are we who work in the corporate world responsible/culpable if people we worked with or for become crooks? If we weren’t in politics, I think the answer would be “are you daft”? But, both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have situations that have (and will) follow them and be used against them, rightly or wrongly. But it’s really about context for both of them. To me we have to be very careful about throwing stones–on both sides–in relation to this question.

Deep, slow breaths and avoid snowbanks.

-G

Please forgive the o/t and my jumping in without reading the thread but…..

Has anyone heard from Marion to know if she’s OK following the sugar refinery fire in Savannah?

That’s easy for you to say. We got 13.3 inches of that horrible stuff yesterday (73 for the season, closing in on the all time record of 76.something) and more to come this weekend. GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!!

If Obabma winds up in an indictment or is caled before a GJ, I’ll be shocked. I’ll bet everything I made on the Giants that’s just not happenin’. i don’t think there will ever be a there here. Go away Rezko story. Shoo.

From what I’ve read, in the practice of law, Obama was neither distinguished nor undistinguished. He was not a courtroom lawyer - but that part of practice is actually very small - and overrated. We don’t know what his legal work was like, but can imagine that it was highly competent. It doesn’t look, however, that he ever ran a large or complex case by himself - but this is not to say that he couldn’t.

It’s very obvious that Obama can write and deliver an excellent and inspiring speech. In addition, he’s enormously intelligent and seems to have a good and strong character. Nevertheless, I’m bothered by doubts about Obama’s abilities and experience as an executive in charge of thousands of people charged with solving the enormous problems of the country.

Waccamaw, I had contact with her on Facebook during the day today, can’t recall the exact time though — iirc it was during the afternoon.

Rezko will be an attack point
Be certain of it
As Ms Clinton said - Obama has not been vetted in the way she has
Here’s the opportunity to have it done by intelligent, thinking individuals, on the basis of facts, not half formed allegations.

Another rebuttal point to last nights article:
Real estate developers are not angels, and outside of Bethel New Life, all low income housing in Chicago is for profit.
There was and is a huge need for low and mixed income housing following the collossal failure of high rise public housing.
All the displaced people from the Robert Taylor Homes and Cabrini-Green need a place to live.
So, when we bandy terms like slumloard around, we should be cognizent of the entire context.

where you at?

recovering … glad you are! I didn’t know that about Miner … great added information.

And Things:

The Boston Globe notes that:
Public records at the Illinois Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission — which handles ethical questions concerning the state’s lawyers — indicate there were no complaints against attorney Obama.

All the investigations done in the press here - and both papers have been gunning for a hot story on Obama - mention that there is no scent of his having gotten “cash to do something illegal”. In fact, a story at CNN describing the Poker games mentioned that the pots were rarely even $!00 and that even though Obama played with folks from ATT, he loudly opposed their legislation, same for another lobbyist - and he also opposed Rezko’s push for a change in a gambling regulation - not just by voting against it but by speaking strongly against it.

Thank you Suin. I think that LHP’s post was is as very similar ro Elizabeth Edwards condemning Move On in many ways.  It was at best a biased piece that will feed a right wing attack machine. I hope your clarification will get highlighted at peak traffic times like the i heard it on a conference call with Howard WOlfoson piece that went up yesterday. It is only fair.

I don’t buy the premise that postings like LHP’s somehow provide useful anticipation of future GOP smear campaigns. Instead, it’s clearly a partisan attack on one of our two fine candidates, and represents the politics of innuendo, attack-from-weakness, and “anything goes”.

First, the fact that Miner, Barnhill and Galland is a creditable, virtuous firm isn’t exactly unknown. The Obama camp and the DNC are both aware of this and would have no trouble mounting a defense of Obama’s resume in a general election campaign. So what’s the advantage of parrying such an attack during a primary? Does such an assault on Sen. Obama’s integrity somehow immunize him from GOP Swiftboating?

Second, Sen. Clinton certainly has her own issues with donors and political contacts. (Yes, I’m not happy linking to TNR, but the article did bring up some very bad memories, such as Marc Rich.) Her attack from weakness on Sen. Obama’s relationship with Rezko was right out of the Rove playbook. (Attack the decorated war veteran with accusations of grandstanding and cowardice.) That’s what Mark Penn — and $4.8 million — will get you: a Karl Rove knockoff campaign.

Third, if such attack postings are legit, where’s the balance? . Where are postings on Clinton’s relationship with Norman Hsu? Marc Rich? That’s right — you can find those on RedState and Malkin’s site! I’m quite happy not to see such crap anywhere, but I’ve seen plenty of Rezko stories at certain “Democrat friendly” sites (here, MyDD, TaylorMarsh). When Obama supporters talk of “change” or a “new type of politics”, perhaps they’re reacting to the scarcity of personal attacks by the Obama campaign and supporters.

Just my $0.02. And big kudos to you, Siun, for a simple refutation of at least one of the noisome points in LHP’s posting.

Madison, WI, liberal bastion surrounding by reality yadda yadda. But proud constituent of Senator Feingold.

Thank you Assistant!

Somehow I doubt Wolfson will be quoting me!

Snowbird42, I’m so happy to see you here. I always love your thoughts, and I was worried when you said you might not contribute. HOLD ON!

VG…wanna share my new theme song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

check your Facebook…with everything going on here in the past several threads I haven;t had a chance to message you. But I promise to do that in a few…for sure…

I’ve mostly been lurking on those threads, …*g* BTW.

DEMI!!!!

Just … here’s a description that was in the articles cited:

In 1995, former Republican Gov. Jim Edgar refused to implement the federal “Motor Voter” law, which Republicans argued could invite fraud and which some Republicans feared could swell the ranks of Democratic voters.

The law mandated people be allowed to register to vote in government offices such as driver’s license renewal centers.

Obama sued on behalf of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. The League of Women Voters and other public-interest groups joined in.

“He and his client were the ones who filed the original case — they blazed the trail,” said Paul Mollica, who represented the League.

Obama did not speak in court –Maria Valdez of the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Education Fund and the U.S. Justice Department joined the case and apparently did the heavy lifting in court. As Miner notes: “Barack was a young kid when he came here,” Miner said. “Senior lawyers are not going to be very deferential to Barack. He was not ‘THE Barack Obama’ yet.” Obama was 32 in 1993, having entered law school at 27.

But when the litigants met to design their strategy in the face of an appeal to their win:

“We had a raucous meeting shortly after the remand, and Barack was a very adamant spokesman for taking a very aggressive stance to try to repair the damage,” Mollica said. “He’s the one who put a charge in us that it was time to move and hold the state accountable.”

Waccamaw, update — my contact with Marion was at 6 PM today. Not sure when that sugar refinery incident was going on, but I’m sure she’s okay.

I’m stayin’ outta this.

Ditto.

I am not worried about that:)

(((hug)))

And many more days like this to come, I suspect. Stiff upper lip, guys.

somehow I knew that!

grinning here

All of this innuendo on FDL sounds like Hillary oppo research.

Here in Chicago, the Miner law firm has an excellent reputation for civil rights and public interest law. For many years, Rezko also had an excellent reputation. Rezko supported many candidates, not just Obama. Furthermore, there has been no allegation of wrongdoing by Obama. Accepting campaign contributions from a developer does not make Obama guilty of anything.

The weekly poker games between members of the Illinois House were nothing but entertainment. There were no lobbyists, no Jack Abramoff. There was absolutely no scandal whatsoever about those poker games. Obama was well liked by both Democrats and Republicans. One of his poker playing partners, Republican Kirk Dillard, who also has an excellent reputation, made a campaign commercial for Obama.

What we have here is not much. If it was a contest between questionable dealings by Obama and questionable dealings by the Clintons, guess who would win that race?

Thanks, LL - & @ 80 -

Not sure what time it occurred but sounds like a goodly number of injuries if initial reports are true.

…and avoid snowbanks.

Ooh that was cold, GSD…!

I just have the feeling the story is gonna fizzle out. We’ll see. Ity’s so much different, though when things are now focused on just a few candidates. No more talk about Rudy’s stupid strategy and all the rest. So, we’ll see soon enough if this amounts to anything. Obama knows te truth and I think he’s smart enough to know the worst thing he can do is let something come out in dribs and drabs. I’d like to think that if there was anything at all to Rezko, Obabma would have addressed it and put it behind him.

Thanks
Im happy to read this post and it makes me prouder of Obama.
He surely will gather the best and the brightest to save our country.
Ill be around although I hate to have us fight our own.

So, I decided to get a bit hostile and call Nancy Pelosi a war criminal over at Dkos: http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....137/452438

Martha … I think the question for all of us of where we are and are not responsible is very interesting which is one of the reasons I work in the field of “corporate responsibility.”

So much depends on your role and power within a corporation - but I believe we all have a responsibility to speak up when we know something is wrong.

Then perhaps we call the Miner lawfirm since they represent “whistleblowers” as a specialty!

I would recommend reading this article in Slate before forming any hard and fast conclusions about Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/.....57803.aspx

Tominator - there were lobbyists at the poker games (I should note that I’ve been around state gov in two other states and there are always poker games) but all sources note that Obama voted against and spoke against those same lobbyists even while playing poker with them.

Good night all. Thank you Siun, and thank you Suz for the Digg assistance :-)

One quick point for anyone who thinks either Dem candidate is to far beneath their standards to vote for:
Do you want John McCain to name the next youngster on the Supreme Court?

I didn’t think so.

BLOG WHORE ALERT !!!!!

Four new posts today at Tex Betsy’s Blog

Now I will get back on topic. Or off topic.

Effing-A!

sleep well LL

I definitely agree with you here, pace my comments in previous threads. Somehow I still think that dKos diary definitely needs to be engaged because it’s out there in viral-land, and spreading fast…

Thanks Siun. Interesting.

I don’t think Obama can be faulted for assuming the background role that almost every new lawyer assumes. It makes a lot of sense and it’s the right thing to do. Experience is enormously important in providing the best representation.

I also think that Obama can be credited for having his heart in the right place - apparently choosing to be part of a firm where he could pursue justice for causes in which he believed - and for his passion in pursuing a just result.

So now turning it around as you do here is missing the point. And unfair. Does someone have to prove to you that the law firm’s work was 100% wholly altruistic? What happened to assumed innocence?

Even if that list is partial, it destroys one of the implications from yesterday’s article.

Thanks for sharing your views. I’ll continue to define for myself the information I require to reach what I beleive is a fair assessment.

Thanks also for the neat rhetorical trick of accusing onoe’s opponent of the behavior one evinces - it was a deft attempt at turning, but it failed.

So glad I spent my life learning about the natrual sciences , rather than playing on debate teams.

With ambitous pols, I never assume innocence; I look for data - all available data - and review it.

Thanks also for the strawman aboout “proving the law firm’s work is 100% altruistic”. (Neither posited nor sought in my question - the 100% altuistic firms aren’t private.) Another deft rhetorical trick - if a rather tired and transparent one.

Vehement attmept to spin off my questions, rather than answer them - increase my index of curiosity - thanks for the tell. If you play poker, hoipe it’s not for big sums.

But now I’m even more curious abut the full scope of Miner’s work.

BTW Read today that McCain finished 894 out of 899 at the Naval Academy. I will say nothing else.

Biodun … I find it best to let kossacks handle their own posts.

Is that, like, a C-?